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Title: East Indian Bottle Masala
Post by: DalPuri on January 30, 2013, 02:39 PM
How bottle masala made by East Indians of Bandra makes any dish taste good

I don't think I could have had a better introduction to bottle masala. I was working in advertising and one of my friends from work, Rajesh, invited me for lunch. He had just moved into a paying guest room in Mumbai's Bandra neighbourhood and had acquired one of those small gas burners. He said his girlfriend, Genesia, would cook us lunch and all we had to do was buy chicken and some rotis from a place that made them fresh in a tandoor oven near Bandra station.    (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/1d57af1c6b2bc065f484cd007d3e22af.jpg)


Rajesh and I managed to muddle our end of the job; when we got back to his room we discovered we'd lost the chicken and spent ages trying to find it, before we realised we had left it dangling in its plastic bag from the handle of his motorbike. Luckily the crows hadn't got to it, and we got it back to the room where Genesia had fried some chopped up onions and garlic and then shaken in some dark red masala. She fried it a bit, filling the room with promising aromas, then added coconut milk and when it was bubbling, threw in the chicken and some kokum and in 10 minutes it was all done.

I can still remember how wonderful it tasted. Rajesh and Genesia are married now and I have eaten a lot of wonderful food at their place, but that chicken curry still stands out. Perhaps it was because we were young and hungry and nostalgia is always the best seasoning, but I also think that masala played a role. Because of its potent red shade I assumed it would be dynamite, but the flavour wasn't too spicy at all, but had a beautifully rounded savouriness, with subtle woody and warm notes. Genesia told it was called bottle masala and was made by the East Indians, a community that lived in large numbers in Bandra and whose name demonstrated an admirably individual approach to logic. They were the original Christian inhabitants of region around Mumbai, converted by the Portuguese who had set up settlements in places like Bassein and Chaul as North Konkan counterparts to their stronghold of Goa. Religion apart, this community had remained quite close to its Konkani roots, with many rituals and recipes that were quite close to their Hindu counterparts.

Bombay's growth, in the 19th century, was good news for the local Christians, who were well-positioned to work with the British rulers. But they were less than pleased to find that the city's prosperity started attracting Goan Christians, who were soon competing for the same jobs. To differentiate themselves the locals decided to adopt a new name and the name they chose was East Indians, after the East India Company. The fact that this made them East Indians in Western India didn't seem to matter, though in time a further level of confusion would be added when people abroad started referring to all Indians as East Indians, to distinguish them from the West Indians of the Caribbeans, which would make the community East Indian East Indians from Western India.

But what do these confusions matter when they have bottle masala. This is a special bend of spices that East Indians make every summer, a ritual that can still be seen in a suburb like Bandra, despite the way it has become increasingly built-up and crowded. Somehow, terraces and courtyards are still found where spices can be kept out for drying and then at a particular time these groups of women come with long poles and wooden buckets. They roast and combine the spices in the proportions prescribed by each family's recipe, and then, pounding rhythmically with the poles in the bucket, reduce them to powder, and put the masala in bottles for use through the rest of the year. The bottles are beer bottles, for several reasons: they are dark glass, so light doesn't cause the spice powder to deteriorate, their long-necked shape makes them convenient for gripping and shaking into a pan and, since East Indians have a sensible attitude towards alcohol, there's never any shortage of them around.

A great deal is made about secret spice recipes and the arcane ingredients that go into them. But general recipes have been published in East Indian cookbooks, like the one produced by the Ladies Sub-Committee of the Bombay East Indian Association and a more recent one by Chef Michael Swamy who is part East Indian himself. The recipe in the first book lists 21 ingredients, from chillies to kebabchini (allspice), while Swamy gives two - a simple one with 22 ingredients and a more elaborate one with 27, including ingredients like nagkesar bulbs, mugwort (maipatri) and lichen (dagadful)!

These ingredients add to the mystique of bottle masala, but I have to say, after trying them out both separately and in several different bottle masalas (all from people willing to sell or gift them, since most commercial versions taste like sawdust), I am a bit sceptical about how much they actually matter. Far from being exotic and expensive, most are from plants that grow wild in the region like Artemisia vulgaris, which is maipatri, and the ironwood tree, which produces nagkesar buds. These are the sort of jhadi-buti that find their way into traditional local medicines, and they have no special taste other than various bitter or woody notes. Some of this can be detected in bottle masala, but mostly I think they are added on the why-not principle, bulking up the final masala and perhaps helping each family boast about their secrets.


Looking at the bottle masala recipes, beyond these local herbs, and most of the standard spices, like cloves, cinnamon and cardamom, none of which are present in such quantities as to be dominant, what stands out are two things
Title: Re: East Indian Bottle Masala
Post by: livo on December 07, 2018, 02:11 AM
If, like me, for some strange reason, you want to do your head in searching for the mysterious "guarded secret family" recipe, try this one. :o  This is one hard nut to crack.  I thought Basaar / Bassar / Kashmiri Masala was tricky.  I've managed to track down and spreadsheet 7 different East Indian / Bombay Bottle Masala recipes and one for a Goan Xacuti Masala (which is very similar but main ingredient is Coriander seed instead of Chilli with the ratios being almost reversed).  The recipes I have found all contain between 20 and 30 spices but apparently some family formula can have up to 60.  They must just raid the spice cupboard and put a bit of everything in it.  Of course the ones I've been able to locate are no longer "Secret" and you have to wonder just how different the guarded ones really are.  The history and the fact it is still made the traditional way (but not as much) is very interesting.  The Masala of choice in the East Indian Christian (Roman Catholic) community.  This makes 11 secret herbs and spices look like child's play.


I'll do a bit of tidying up of my spreadsheet analysis and standardise to a base quantity of the main ingredient, Chilli, and post the result.  It sounds like this masala has some merit and I look forward to trying it.  One of the biggest problems will be locating the more exotic spices and there are some that will be straight out impossible here.  That's after trying to decipher the different dialect / language names of some of these weird spices and the non-standardised spellings. It seems that as long as you have some letters the same it will do. ???  Or you can use all the same letters but just mix them up a bit.  ???
Title: Re: East Indian Bottle Masala
Post by: livo on December 09, 2018, 06:48 AM
I've done some spread-sheeting around and I'm about to make up a 140g batch of LCD (lowest common denominator) averaged East Indian Bottle Masala.  As I want to use it to cook in about an hour I'll be using powdered spices where possible. I have adjusted the Coriander content down to take consideration for the extra in the Xacuti formula.  I have also included the recipe in DalPuri's OP.  I'll post the formula and my spreadsheet analysis later.

The LCD method of evaluating multiple posted recipes / internet formulae has been working pretty well so far for me so why not try it on this one?

I had almost all spices already in powdered form, so I only needed to dry roast and grind a few things. The only Dagar Phool I had was in a masala that contained some of the other main ingredients as well so some of that went into the mix to get the Dagar Phool.  A few obscure things like Mugwort and Cassia Buds are missing.  The smell of the blended masala is fantastic and does remind of fresh home made Kitchen King Masala but it is different.  To make this from all freshly roasted and ground spices must be fantastic on the nose.

I'm about to do some East Indian / Bombay Bottle Masala Salmon fillet portions.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esYuj6RC2Tw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esYuj6RC2Tw)

Here are a couple of pics of The Home Made Bombay Bottle Masala.  As you can see I had nearly all of it already ground.  Took all of 1/2 an hour to make 140 g (about 5 oz). It is wonderful stuff.
Title: East Indian Bottle Masala
Post by: livo on December 09, 2018, 08:32 AM
"IN ENGLISH"

40 g Kashmiri Chilli
25 g other Chilli (hotter) or use all KC  (Deggi, Madras or use Paprika for milder version). I did a bit of all. 3.
15 g Coriander
7 g Turmeric
5 g Cumin
5 g Sesame seed
5 g White Poppy seed  (I only had blue)
5 g Mustard seed
1 g Caraway (not proper black cumin)
4 g Black Pepper corn
2 g Chana dal
1 g Fenugreek
2 g Cloves
8 g Fennel (this seems a lot. one recipe used aniseed, others had more Star Anise / less Fennel)
1 g Indian Bay leaf
2 g whole wheat ( I used wholemeal flour)
1 g Black cardamom ( I used 1 small one)
3 g Cinnamon
1 g Green Cardamom
0.5 g Asafoetida
0.5 g Mace
0.5 g Star Anise
0.5 g Sichuan pepper
0.5 g Allspice
0.2 g Nutmeg
0.5 g Stone Flower
1 g salt ( I used 50 / 50 Himalayan Pink / Black)

Also rans in some formula but not included in mine was Ginger and Saffron.  I have them but just forgot. In the averaging they didn't show up really.

So that's 29 ingredients counting different chillies as 3, and 31 if you add the Ginger and Saffron.

Title: Re: East Indian Bottle Masala
Post by: Sverige on December 09, 2018, 08:41 AM
Please do not change the subject line when replying to threads Livo. This makes no sense when viewed, especially since you're also using abbreviations without defining them. Only by ploughing through the whole thread can we make sense of what you're on about.

If you just replied to the thread leaving the subject line unchanged, we would at least have a chance.
Title: Re: East Indian Bottle Masala (was: The LCD formula)
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on December 09, 2018, 08:46 AM
Thanks, Livo.  I couldn't work out exactly which sort criteria you used, so I re-sorted by descending proportion (see below),  A few questions, if I may ?
40gmKashmiri Chilli
25gmother Chilli (hotter) or use all KC  (Deggi, Madras or use Paprika for milder version). I did a bit of all. 3.
15gmCoriander
8gmFennel (this seems a lot. one recipe used aniseed, others had more Star Anise / less Fennel)
7gmTurmeric
5gmCumin
5gmSesame seed
5gmWhite Poppy seed  (I only had blue)
5gmMustard seed
4gmBlack Pepper corn
3gmCinnamon
2gmChana dal
2gmCloves
2gmwhole wheat ( I used wholemeal flour)
1gmCaraway (not proper black cumin)
1gmFenugreek
1gmIndian Bay leaf
1gmBlack cardamom ( I used 1 small one)
1gmGreen Cardamom
1gmsalt ( I used 50 / 50 Himalayan Pink / Black)
0.5gmAsafoetida
0.5gmMace
0.5gmStar Anise
0.5gmSichuan pepper
0.5gmAllspice
0.5gmStone Flower
0.2gmNutmeg

** Phil.
Title: Re: East Indian Bottle Masala
Post by: livo on December 09, 2018, 10:48 AM
Please do not change the subject line when replying to threads Livo. This makes no sense when viewed, especially since you're also using abbreviations without defining them. Only by ploughing through the whole thread can we make sense of what you're on about.

If you just replied to the thread leaving the subject line unchanged, we would at least have a chance.

My apology. Fixed. I hope. 

And I do sincerely apologise Sverige. I was unaware that changing the subject line caused any issues.  It doesn't for me and the Thread Title remains the same in the forum index. I just assumed it was simply changing the subject line to preface the particular post.  It is something I've seen done before and used on other forums. It has never occurred to me that being an allowable function of the software, this caused any issues.  I would very much like to understand what is actually does on your end that make it such a pain.  Genuine interest so please elaborate.  PM is fine if you'd prefer.
Title: Re: East Indian Bottle Masala
Post by: livo on December 09, 2018, 11:02 AM
Phil, the ingredients were not sorted in any way. This was the order they were added to my spreadsheet when compiling from the different recipes.

 I'll check back tomorrow about the chilli but part of the mystery around this Masala comes from the multiple chilli types used. One recipe refers to Madras but it could be referring to a regional cultivation. Kashmiri and bayagdi (sp) are the most commonly stated. Acclaimed recipes purport to use 4 or more different types. I used Kashmiri, Plain Chilli powder (whatever that is) and some Paprika.

Most don't stipulate mustard colour but one says red (brown). I used powdered this evening for a quick batch and it was fine. I don't think it's critical. All recipes call for white poppy seed but I used blue.

The recipes call for the use of Black Cumin as in Caraway (Shahi Jeera). My understanding is that Black Cumin and Caraway are not the same, although often confused. I have both and they are not the same.  The recipes clearly call for Caraway.

One of the claims made about this Masala is that even with the chilli content, it is not spicey.  Much to my surprise I found this to be absolutely correct. Tonights salmon fillets were delicious.
Title: Re: East Indian Bottle Masala
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on December 09, 2018, 11:20 AM
OK, thanks.  One quick comment
Title: Re: East Indian Bottle Masala
Post by: livo on December 09, 2018, 11:32 AM
Translations of some listed spices in these recipes is difficult to say the least. I think, with almost certainty, that they are using Caraway but calling it Black Cumin. It is not unknown for this to be misunderstood and the different seeds to be confused. I've come across it before.  The seeds of Cumin, Black Cumin and Caraway are similar shape but slightly different size and colour. I can provide the actual wordings of the original recipes and you can interpret as well. This might be helpful. I'll post tomorrow.

Yes, and I've come across kalonji being called Black Cumin as well.  Not what I have here at home. The joys of spice names.
Title: Re: East Indian Bottle Masala
Post by: livo on December 09, 2018, 09:30 PM
The cooked East Indian Bottle Masala marinated Salmon fillets.  I had these with some leftover Masala Prawns (delicious on there own), some Pilau rice and fresh garden salad.  The Salmon turned out exceptionally well and as stated earlier the lack of spiciness / chilli heat is puzzling, yet exactly in line with the unusual claims made about this masala blend in the written dialogs.  Even though Kashmiri Chilli is not particularly hot, I can usually feel some kick from it.  This recipe for the Salmon actually required additional Kashmiri Chilli on top of that in the masala. I was reluctant but elected to see if the claims were correct.  To my surprise there was next to no "chilli heat" at all.  Just the compound flavours of the combined spices and it is good. There is some other chilli powder in the masala that does have some kick, so even that was apparently neutralised.

Made to specification this would be a really remarkable masala, ie; using all the exact ingredients from seed or whole spices and roasted individually, as is tradition, would be far more time consuming and I will probably never bother.  I may one day go a few steps closer to the full preparation but last nights quick throw together is more than pleasing.
Title: Re: East Indian Bottle Masala
Post by: livo on December 09, 2018, 10:50 PM
Phil, as you know, the naming of things in this subject / culinary area is somewhat random and confused / confusing at times.  For an OCD like me it is pure hell and pokes me like a stick.  >:(  Then there is all of the "expert" knowledge churned out on the internet information highway, much of which is just plain incorrect. It takes a bit to sort the crap from the clay, as they say.  ;)

Chillies:
I found this site, among others, about Chilli variety of India.  "Madras Pari" chilli is apparently a variety. http://www.ikisan.com/ap-chilli-varieties.html (http://www.ikisan.com/ap-chilli-varieties.html). 

It is also worth noting that I have read that Kashmiri Chilli Powder is not always 100% "Kashmiri Chilli". http://www.margaretshome.com/what-is-kashmiri-chilli-powder/ (http://www.margaretshome.com/what-is-kashmiri-chilli-powder/)
Note: upon inspection of this photo, it would appear to me that the whole chillies I was sold as "Kashmiri" are in fact Byadagi.

The main variety used in Bottle Masala, sometimes singly, is Kashmiri. The other stipulated varieties used are Byadagi (some of the spelling is at best a lucky guess, eg; Bedgi) and the Madras Pari.  Some descriptive dialog about secret family recipes claim to use 4 or 5 different types. Paprika is mentioned in some discussion.

As stated previously, I used some Kashmiri, some generic "chilli powder" (quite hot), some paprika and there was also Kashmiri chilli and "chilli hot" listed in the ingredients of the Basaar I used to obtain a trace amount of Stone Flower. All other ingredients in this Basaar were in the ingredient lists of the Bottle Masala so the Basaar I have is a "reduced spice number" version of Bottle Masala.  15 ingredients instead of close to 30.


Black Cumin:
This spice caused me some confusion in the early stages of my spice stocking quest and still does. I immediately found reference to it being both Caraway and Kalonji (Black Seeds or Nigella). I had both Caraway seed and Kalonji and neither of these are Black Cumin.  However, finding a definitive answer is difficult, well-nigh impossible.  Bunium bulbocastinum, and Bunium persicum are both claimed to be Black Cumin.  Black Cumin is sometimes confused with Caraway because they look similar but neither look like Kalonji.  Then you have Shahi jeera and Kalijiri.  The spellings, local dialects and translation to English let alone general naming confusion and mistakes has made this spice a real "anyone's guess", even Mr Pruthi.

I have 4 different seeds in my spice cupboard.  Cumin, Caraway, Black Cumin (sold in a packet labelled Shahi Jeera (Black Cumin) incidentally) and Kalonji. They are all different in shape, size, colour and taste.

What the actual recipes called for is as follows;
showmerecipes:- caraway seeds (shahi jeera) http://showmerecipes.blogspot.com/2016/08/east-indian-bottle-masala-how-to-make.html (http://showmerecipes.blogspot.com/2016/08/east-indian-bottle-masala-how-to-make.html)
Maria D'souza:- caraway seeds. This recipe appears in several different locations. Here is one. https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/429953095662751947/?lp=true (https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/429953095662751947/?lp=true)
Mangalorean Recipes:- not used in this one. http://www.mangaloreanrecipes.com/recipes/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=86&Itemid=110 (http://www.mangaloreanrecipes.com/recipes/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=86&Itemid=110)
Serveright-food:- Black Cumin.  http://www.serveright-food.com/east-indian-bottle-masala/ (http://www.serveright-food.com/east-indian-bottle-masala/)
BottleMasala.com:- Shah- jeera (Caraway).  http://www.bottlemasala.com/Bottle_Masala_Recipe.html (http://www.bottlemasala.com/Bottle_Masala_Recipe.html)
DNAIndia:- Shahijeera (cumin seeds black) https://www.dnaindia.com/lifestyle/report-an-east-indian-speaks-on-the-importance-of-that-kitchen-staple-bottle-masala-1913067 (https://www.dnaindia.com/lifestyle/report-an-east-indian-speaks-on-the-importance-of-that-kitchen-staple-bottle-masala-1913067)
Bottlezest:- Shahjeera (black cumin seeds) http://bottlezest.blogspot.com/ (http://bottlezest.blogspot.com/)
Cookadoodledo:- Shahi Jeera (Black Cumin) https://cookadoodledoo.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/east-indian-bottle-masala/ (https://cookadoodledoo.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/east-indian-bottle-masala/)
Goan Xacuti:- Carraway seeds http://xantilicious.com/recipe/goan-xacuti-masala-powder/ (http://xantilicious.com/recipe/goan-xacuti-masala-powder/)


These are the recipes that I spreadsheeted, roughly adjusted to a standardised 1000g of chilli (it's usually made in big quantities of 3 kg of dried chilli), scaled down to producing approximately 150 g batches and then averaged to come up with the above LCD formula, kindly sorted by decreasing ingredient quantity by Phil.


Picture of my seeds. Clockwise from the top. 
Black Cumin:- sold to me as Shahi Jeera (Black Cumin). Cumin (Jeera). Black seed (Kalonji / Nigella). Caraway seed.
The Caraway seed is longer and fatter than the Black Cumin, is slightly darker and the longitudanal lines / ridges are more distinct.  As far as taste goes, in a raw taste test they are 3 distinctly different flavours with the Black Cumin being almost halfway between the other 2.


Title: Re: East Indian Bottle Masala
Post by: livo on December 09, 2018, 11:49 PM
Other weird spices.  There is quite a bit written about the obscure spices in the recipes and some are said to be included simply for the "why not" factor.  This is the best information I could gather about some of them. It may not be 100% but it does help somewhat. They are really not that mysterious once investigated although some will be difficult for me to obtain here locally.  Insignificant really.

Tirphal / Triphal / Teppal:  Not identical but it is very close to a Sichuan /Szechuan  Pepper.  Substitute OK.
Jaipatri / Zaipatry / Javntry / Javitry: Mace
Badian / Bardian / Badiyan:  Star Anise
Kababchini / kabab chini / cubeb / tailed pepper: Allspice
Maipatri:  Mugwort (apparently banned in some countries at one point)
Naikaiser / Nagkesar: aka cobra saffron or cassia buds. apparently the unopened flower buds of the Sri Lanka National Tree. I substituted a small amount of cassia bark.
Title: Re: East Indian Bottle Masala
Post by: chewytikka on December 11, 2018, 01:57 AM
Caraway is just a misnomer, should be regarded as European/Western
and not involved in Indian or Oriental cooking.

Black Cumin, Cumin and Kalongi.
I have the same in my whole spices collection. Imported here in the U.K.

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/3e858a3e5eaf9590a519fd2576e6eec1.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#3e858a3e5eaf9590a519fd2576e6eec1.jpg)

I always enjoy making my own spice blends, but I dont have a OCD approach ;D
I did buy a very good Spices hardback in 1990.
Just thinking there must be a commercial blend of this somewhere out there.
Bombay One Pot Masala, perhaps 8)

cheers Chewy
Title: Re: East Indian Bottle Masala
Post by: livo on December 11, 2018, 04:50 AM
Chewy, you really know how to poke me with that OCD stick.  ;D  Look what you've done now.   ???  I have to ask. You leave me no choice. I won't sleep.  I'm going to need a beer or two to ponder this dilemma.  ;) 

Even Dr JS Pruthi has had trouble with this one apparently because black cumin is not Kalongi / Kalonji / Black seed. (Although the names are so often used for each and every thing. Not that Wikipedia is the definitive truth but here is what I'm talking about.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigella_sativa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigella_sativa)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elwendia_persica (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elwendia_persica)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunium_bulbocastanum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunium_bulbocastanum))

Could you clarify what you've said about Caraway being just a misnomer and having no place in Indian /oriental cookery??  Does this mean that it is just a spice (Black Cumin) incorrectly named (westernised) and it is the name that shouldn't be used in Indian / Oriental reference, or is Caraway a separate distinct spice that simply is not used in Indian cooking? 

If it is the former, then I suppose this could be the case if the Bottle Masala recipes are targeted to western internet users.
Couldn't the same be said of most spices which have a common English name and a lot of different regional and dialect / language names?

It would seem odd if it were the latter since 4 of the 9 recipes for this masala, presumably by East Indian heritage people, actually call for Caraway by name, or as a bracketed translation. 

There are commercially available blends of Bombay or East Indian Bottle Masala. Apparently a lot of what is made in the East Indian region ends up with expats in Australia, Canada and wherever else these peoples have settled.  It is also produced by some of these expat East Indians in different countries like here. http://www.spicemama.com.au/shop/spice-mamas-bombay-bottle-masala (http://www.spicemama.com.au/shop/spice-mamas-bombay-bottle-masala) and https://www.eatelish.com/product/east-indian-bottle-masala/ (https://www.eatelish.com/product/east-indian-bottle-masala/)

Incidentally, your photographed Black Cumin looks longer and skinnier than both my Black Cumin and Caraway, so this could mean that both of my spices could be the same thing, and the same as yours, I suppose.  I felt they tasted a little different in raw taste though.  The one I believe to be Caraway is slightly more pungent oil and the Black Cumin more woody in flavour leaning towards actual cumin.  I may be imagining it though. There are 4 spices (or possibly just 3) in my photograph CT but I didn't shrink it enough in the resizing. You have to scroll across to see all 4.

Title: Re: East Indian Bottle Masala
Post by: livo on December 11, 2018, 06:39 AM
This stuff does my head in. ???

The more I read about this, and taking on board what Chewy has said, I feel that any reference to Caraway / Black Cumin / Shahi Jeera in these masala recipes is probably (very likely but not definitely) referring to the Caraway / Black Caraway / Black Cumin / Kalonji / Black Seed spice from Nigella Sativa. Not the Black Cumin from Bunium bulbocastanum.   Maybe Dr Pruthi was onto it after all.  But if a recipe calls for Black Cumin, which one do you use?

If this is the case I used the wrong spice. 

There are apparently 4 distinctly different spices from 4 biologically different plants. I think I have all 4.  Only the names have been changed to provide general confusion and it would appear that CT is again correct in as much as CARAWAY (carum carui) is not generally used in Indian cooking and any reference to it is in fact the misnomer of which he speaks.

Anybody know any East Indian / Mumbai locals to use a phone-a-friend chance?
Title: Re: East Indian Bottle Masala
Post by: Ghost Face on December 11, 2018, 12:57 PM
Cumin - there are two types of cumin. Cuminum cyminum and cumin nigrum (Black Cummin)
cumin nigrum has a more complex flavour and less cuminaldehyde.

 Cuminaldehyde, or 4-isopropylbenzaldehyde, is a natural organic compound with the molecular formula C10H12O. It is a benzaldehyde with an isopropyl group substituted in the 4-position.
Cuminaldehyde is a constituent of the essential oils of eucalyptus, myrrh, cassia, cumin and others.[1] It has a pleasant smell and contributes to the aroma of these oils. It is used commercially in perfumes and other cosmetics
Title: Re: East Indian Bottle Masala
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on December 11, 2018, 01:38 PM
Welcome aboard, GF
Title: Re: East Indian Bottle Masala
Post by: Ghost Face on December 11, 2018, 04:31 PM
Cheers for the welcome. Good to be here!
I Never thought about quoting sources. Well spotted Wikipedia was part of the source. The other part came from Harold Mcgee. " Mcgee on Food and Cooking" a truly remarkable piece of investigation into the science of food and cooking. The Pandora's box that led to a lot of modern techniques and understanding that one sees today. An interesting point that I took note  of in the book was a comparison to the way Mexicans cook/treat their pureed chillies and the way Indians do also. On that note, it came to the forefront of my mind that Chillies, tomatoes and vanilla all came to worlds palate in the 15-16th centuries from Mexico. I wonder what interesting techniques they have to teach in the pursuit of curry excellence.

At the moment I'm trying to investigate and replicate the "GIR" (Glasgow Indian Restaurant) curry that appears to be fading.  I'm at the basics of working out a Garam Masala ratio of my own and incorporating this into a technique taught to me by an Indian family friend from Punjab descent. Although I have already started improvising with Kashmiri Bassar and whole Kashmiri Chillies in my recipe. I was pleased with the final results. Here is today's write up and analysis.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1I713C4cISwWvjWpwQTrzFLef4TsxhDOPFqaHse6bKlQ/edit?usp=sharing

I've still to start analysing the Bases Sauce and recipes section, it looks like a deep rabbit hole.

This article on East India Bottle Masala was great to see and appreciate the True complexity of Indian Cooking.



Title: Re: East Indian Bottle Masala
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on December 11, 2018, 04:40 PM
Cheers for the welcome. Good to be here!
I Never thought about quoting sources. Well spotted Wikipedia was part of the source. The other part came from Harold Mcgee. " Mcgee on Food and Cooking" a truly remarkable piece of investigation into the science of food and cooking.

I have that text
Title: Re: East Indian Bottle Masala
Post by: chewytikka on December 11, 2018, 05:32 PM
Hi Livo

Heres what I use, in the UK

I have always known that Caraway is in English cakes and breads, a spice you would get in a health shop.
Back in the day, an Asian or Indian store would not have it or even heard of it.
Today you can get just about anything anywhere.

But just to confirm for you, I dug out my old reference
Spices book, which was my spice learning tool back then.


(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/c2837548590ed951089a0962d4acbb7a.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#c2837548590ed951089a0962d4acbb7a.jpg)

Different brands available in the UK

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/f9ae573ce5101fd8dde5327486df8463.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#f9ae573ce5101fd8dde5327486df8463.jpg)

Cumin_________________Black Cumin_____________________Kalongi

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/b6d6e04a8ec1751481ea34557e8c9a31.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#b6d6e04a8ec1751481ea34557e8c9a31.jpg)

A good spice book

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/64be4b7d0981d0fab7aacdcf23f90205.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#64be4b7d0981d0fab7aacdcf23f90205.jpg)

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/15947c6af4e643eb7be80e859fc32f73.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#15947c6af4e643eb7be80e859fc32f73.jpg)

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

N.B. I can see this recipe working, for a genuine Bombay curry powder.

Maria Goretti. Her straightforward family recipe

Ingredients to prepare her East Indian Bottle Masala: -

25 gms Bedhki Chillies -
25 gms Kashmiri Chillies -
90 gms Turmeric -
60 gms Coriander Seeds -
28 gms Cumin Seeds -
20 gms Sesame Seeds -
20 gms Poppy Seeds -
15 gms Fennel Seeds -
50 gms Mustard Seeds -
5 gms Black Cumin -
8 to 10 Cloves -
5 gms Cardamom -
5 gms Cinnamon

Method: -
Slowly, dry roast the above ingredients. -
Pound/Grind it into a fine powder. -
Store it in clean air-tight containers.

I will make this up at some stage, as the ratios
make perfect sense. ;)

cheers Chewy
Title: Re: East Indian Bottle Masala
Post by: livo on December 11, 2018, 08:20 PM
Fantastic discussion. Thanks for the info on Caraway CT. The use of the last sentence in the book description is very common. The formula there will most likely produce a good Bottle Masala as it contains all of the common ingredients and omits the "why not" ones. Common as is in found in common among similar recipes, not as in plain.

Welcome Ghost Face. Not hard to tell that you know a thing or two. Strangely enough the seed that I tasted raw and considered to be the more like eucalyptus oil was the Caraway then followed by Black Cumin and Cumin (not much at all). 

I now accept there are these 4 different seeds (or fruits) used as spices.  The question remains though. Which one is being referred to when these East Indian recipes call for either Shahi Jeera, Black Cumin or Caraway?  There is only one it can't be and just maybe it is the one least expected, ie Nigella Sativa.  Maybe I'll just cross that line out and pretend I don't see it. ;D

Can anyone offer an explanation as to why the chilli in this Masala appears to be neutralised somewhat? It is a regularly claimed characteristic of this Masala and I found it to be accurate.