Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: pete on February 05, 2019, 06:54 PM
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There are many different recipes for naan
But which flour gives the best result?
Plain or self raising?
All the takeaways I have seen use self raising but there are many home recipes that use plain
What difference does it actually make?
Does it affect the gluten?
What do folks think?
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I'm not a naan faan, Pete (apart from keema naans with lamb dhansak), but given the rave reviews that the "Happy Naan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nypVcrfz6dk&feature=c4-overview&list=UU9rT1AQMqTGiOO8uEf8foSA)" has received, I would be inclined to use whichever flour its recipe specifies.
** Phil.
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They will both contain gluten. The amount of potential gluten is indicated by the % protein (gliadin and glutenin) on the product nutritional information table on the packaging. AP (plain) and SR is usually at or around 10%, while strong bread flour is between 10% and 13%.
Self raising flour is nothing more than a shortcut. It is just plain flour with baking powder (and maybe salt depending on location and brand) added. Baking powder is a leavening agent that gives rise to the dough, either single or dual acting, and if used, bread made this way should not require yeast. Plain flour can be given rise by adding your own baking powder at about 3% from memory, or yeast. It should be unnecessary to use both but some recipes do.
I don't rate naan recipes that use self raising flour with additional baking powder as it is not needed and I can taste BP overload every time. Some people are less sensitive to the taste of excess baking powder. I'm not one.
Baking powder is usually bicarbonate of soda (Sodium bicarbonate) mixed with cream of tartar (tartaric acid) for chemical rise (single acting or home made) and other salts for heat induced rise (double acting). This can be a salt of aluminium or other.
There are no hard and fast rules for naan regarding which flour to use. Atta, Maida, plain, all purpose, strong bread, or SR baking powder, fresh or instant yeast, egg or not, yogurt, milk, water, butter milk, etc. It is a matter of personal preference. Find a recipe you like and use it. I have my go to naan recipe now, finally. Actually two. The SAF naan is very tasty and the full dairy deluxe naan is rich in flavour and texture.
https://www.196flavors.com/india-naan (https://www.196flavors.com/india-naan)
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The SAF naan is very tasty and the full dairy deluxe naan is rich in flavour and texture.
https://www.196flavors.com/india-naan (https://www.196flavors.com/india-naan)
Thank you
that's a very intelligent and comprehensive answer
Have just copied that recipe, from the link
will give it a go next time
which yeast do you use?
I use dried normally, fresh is quite hard to get
I've got two types, both made by Allisons
one is Easy Bake, mainly intended for bread machines,I think
The other is just called Dried Active Yeast
that's more the old fashioned stuff
I use a tava for some naans
other times I use the tandoor
But I can't accurately measure the temperature, of the tandoor
It's a little hit and miss
But when you get it right it's absolutely magic
The tava is easy to check the temperature
I've got one of those temperature guns
https://www.google.com/search?q=thermometer+gun&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiQtKafmKjgAhXIBGMBHVH9B8cQ_AUIDigB&biw=1024&bih=622#spd=456809340215793101
it gets confused on the tandoor though
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https://www.196flavors.com/india-naan (https://www.196flavors.com/india-naan)
Once the dough has risen, lightly oil hands, punch down the dough and knead.
How much kneading is required?
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How much kneading is required?
Pete, I have never used fresh yeast as I simply have never been able to source it. I just use baker's dried active yeast from the supermarket or the stuff they sell in packets at the Indian grocer. I once had SAF branded yeast but I've never been able to detect any difference.
SS, you love asking curly ones don't you? ;) How long is a piece of string?
I have seen some naan recipes that stipulate not to over-knead the dough. I've seen others that knead very well. I guess it is again something up to the individual and their own preferred texture. Personally, I prefer to knead the dough fairly well so that there is a good gluten network created. I don't think it requires anything too extensive, as may be the case in a heavy wholemeal / mixed grain bread.
I've not tried the actual recipe in this link although it looks perfectly fine. I posted the link more so because it is a fairly good article about the origins and variety of naan and went some way towards answering the question of the OP.
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that's all good info
Something puzzles me about the "add baking powder"recipes
Incidentally I note that it's not in the recipe, you shared
Why do recipes use baking powder then tell you to leave the dough 24 hours?
Surely all the fizz will have gone?
all Indian takeaways seem to use it, as well as self raising flour
and obviously it's an expense
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The resting allows the gluten to form. And most raising agents are double-acting so the actual rise will be when the dough is exposed to heat.
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I've not tried the actual recipe in this link although it looks perfectly fine
Ah, I misunderstood. I thought this was your go to recipe. I think I'll still try it though because I can't recall trying a yeast-raised naan recipe before.
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I posted at the same time as you SS. Give the SAF recipe a try as well. I've tried many and it is really good. It is my go to recipe. I should have been clearer in my earlier post.
I had the same question Pete. It sort of defies logic. The point is that most commercially available baking powder (and that included in self raising flour) is dual acting. It provides a fizz, as you put it, firstly when moisture is added, but also has a second fizz that only occurs when it is heated. It is different to straight home made baking powder. This is the thing that allows for the 24 hour delay.
The 24 hr delay probably was initially intended to have more to do with flavour development than anything else, but I doubt this even occurs in non-yeast bread as there would be minimal fermentation. Pizza dough (yeast) is aged for a day to improve flavour. Some smoothness and homogeneity is achieved as well but this really isn't required for naan which is a fluffy bread anyway. I think such a long delay may just be a quirk that some have tried and stuck with. It won't hurt but it isn't necessary and I disagree with claims that it is essential. Watch the traditional self raising flour naan being made. They make dough and form it and cook it. Yeast leavened does require rise time. The delay is possibly also a result from industry practice of prepping food in quiet times the day before.
I don't believe it is ever necessary to use baking powder (or yeast) in self raising flour as extra does not provide extra rise. It is a recipe imbalance and a mistake (imho). Self raising flour is a convenience pre-mixed shortcut that is meant to do away with the need to add a leavening agent yourself.
I don't think there would be any economic cost in using SR flour. Adding extra baking powder is an added unnecessary cost though.
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I think such a long delay may just be a quirk that some have tried and stuck with.
I frequently fear that much of the received BIR wisdom is no more than mere "quirk(s) that some have tried and stuck with" ...
** Phil.
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Give the SAF recipe a try as well.
Which one is that? These pseudo-acronyms are a curse at times. Even if I do liberally scatter them myself.
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https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=14998.0
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Not being funny, but all the debates about flours, baking powder, yeast etc to me seem a bit pointless.
As Phil points out, the most successful and IMHO best BIR style Naans on here are the Happy Chris ones.
Have a read through this for confirmation.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=12589.0
SR flour and baking powder, no yeast anywhere in sight.
Maybe Naans in AIR are a bit different?
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Quite possibly AIR is different Martinvic but I'd be surprised if this were the case with naan. H4ppy's naan is without doubt popular, but try it without the additional Baking Powder and I'd agree it is a good naan. The additional baking powder provides nothing but negative impact in my opinion. I'd also argue that the "essential" 24 hour rest in the refrigerator is not required and these naan could be cooked in far less time with no loss of characteristic at all.
Have you tried the SAF Naan? British recipe and the closest I've come to the naan in the shops out here. So far those who have tried it and reported back have agreed it is a very good naan. A small group so far, I'll agree. (being only a sample of 1 plus myself. ;D Still waiting on ScottyM to report back I see.) I've tried the 2 different naan side by side as well as variations to each, along with many other recipes. I don't think H4ppy's naan as given are all that amazing at all.
A big thumbs-up from me for posting this naan bread recipe link, livo! I followed the recipe under the video (almost!) to the letter by preparing the ferment and then combining the rest of the ingredients the following day.
I did a test run last night using one dough ball on the gas hob using a shallow non-stick Tefal crepe pan and a blowtorch to char the top, It was an complete success - the best naan bread I have ever achieved! It was light, fluffy and very tasty.
...... as I'll be making these naans again and again. Highly recommended!
Now thats a proper Naan.
Never been a fan of the self raising flour and baking powder version. I want my bread fermented and easy to digest.
I will make this tomorrow with a Poolish (pre ferment) and cook it in my Electric pizza oven. Will upload some photos and my thoughts after
There a mainly 3 alternative methods of providing rise to a naan (or other baked products). Yeast, baking powder or self-raising flour. Almost always, there is absolutely no need or benefit in using a combination of any 2. There are exceptions but naan isn't one. In the case of additional baking powder added to self raising flour in a naan, in my opinion, the end result is contaminated by excessive baking powder and it can be tasted and / or felt in the mouth,
Qualifying statement: This effect of excessive baking powder sensitivity is found in some people but not all. I am one such person with this sensitivity.
If I prepare H4ppy Chris naan to spec., I get a terrible metallic zing after-taste. I have experimented using non-aluminium baking powder and home made baking powder but it is present every time. Using just SR flour without additional baking powder and home made SR flour, at 3 % baking powder, does not provide that same sensitivity. I make my own conclusions based on my own experiences.
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Sorry Livo, but why would I want to change a perfectly good recipe, that has worked every time I have made it?
Haven't read through the whole thread again, but can't remember anyone else saying the baking powder gave them a bad taste. Too much sugar or no salt in it are the only two things I can remember being said. Plus I think it was said in that thread that the waiting times could be reduced,
Not knocking your Naan recipes, they obviously work for you and a couple of others, but I think I can safely say that the Happy Chris ones have been the most successful and the goto recipe for most on here.
I do like reading your posts, but have to admit some of your conclusions I,m not sure on because you have no baseline in actually eating BIR food to compare with.
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No argument from me. :)
But don't take my word for it MV. Google search for "Baking Powder aftertaste" or "Baking Powder metallic taste". Invariably you will find reference to it being caused by the addition of too much baking powder without sufficient ingredients to compensate and neutralise it. The amount of baking powder included in ready made Self Raising flour has been determined as the optimal proportion for good reason.
Another search on "Baking Powder sensitivity" will show that it also is a known occurrence in some people.
All I'm saying is that H4ppy Chris' recipe, as is, didn't ring my bell. I've watched the video multiple times, but it wasn't recently, and I think your right about the lesser wait time if necessary. I'd hoped it was what I wanted but it didn't turn out that way, whereas the SAF recipe produced a result that is on par with the naan I enjoy way down here. If your after the rich fluffy gooey texture then go with all dairy and put an egg in it. Naan cakes. ;D