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Supplementary Recipes (Curry Powders, Curry Paste, Restaurant Spice Mixes) => Supplementary Recipes Chat => Topic started by: Cory Ander on January 27, 2009, 09:59 AM

Title: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Cory Ander on January 27, 2009, 09:59 AM
There is no doubt that many members will be more than happy with the results they are getting from the recipes on this forum.  There is also no doubt that many of these recipes are capable of producing a very tasty curry that is bound to suitably impress family and friends.

However, there is also no doubt (in my mind...you may disagree, of course) that none are actually capable of producing the depth of flavour and aroma (i.e. sweet, smokey and savoury) which is the trademark (whether it be a humble mushroom or saag bhaji, tarka dhal, special fried rice, korma, tikka masala, madras, phal, etc...anything with OIL in it...not necessarily curry base!) of a decent British Indian Restaurant (BIR).

a)   Many have conjectured that it's "all in the technique" used to prepare the final dish.

b)   Many (including me) have conjectured that it's "all in the curry base"

c)   Many have conjectured that it's largely to do with using "reused" oil.

I have tried many permutations of the above, but with limited success (i.e. with respect to producing a curry that is TRULY a replica of a decent BIR curry regarding taste and smell).

However, I am heartened by Haldi's recent claims (which I believe, knowing his fanaticism and dedication to the goal) that he is able to fully produce replica BIR curry bases, together with decent BIR curries, "simply" by using the "reused" oil supplied by his local BIR.  He considers this paramount to truly producing curries with "the taste" and "the smell" of a decent BIR curry.

Therefore, the question is - how can we reproduce this spicy oil at home?


Many people reclaim and use the oil floating on the curry base.  I've tried this and, alone, it doesn't seem to produce the depth of flavour and savouriness I'm looking to replicate.

What other methods have members used to synthesise this spicy oil?  What have been your conclusions?  Alternatively, what methods would members suggest I try?
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Curry King on January 27, 2009, 02:58 PM
I don't think you replicate it at home due to the volumes a fully running BIR will go through.  It's not like a base recipe that you can scale down, the amount of oil that gets used\reused in a nights cooking must be a few months worth at home. You could keep topping up your spiced oil with oil from finished curry's but as said it would take weeks before you got anywhere near the amount of times a BIR would do it in just one night.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: lightboy on January 27, 2009, 03:25 PM
I tend to concur with CK .. i think the flavour from the oil is a result of many many
usings.. it needs to be really infused with flavour to make much of a difference ..
personally i think the BIR "taste" we are looking for is probably:

15% due to base
35% due to cooking method
50% due to oil

regarding cooking method .. i once asked a guy i got very friendly with called Raj, who ran an epic BIR(sadly now closed) near me in Ilkeston, what the secret to the taste was .. and though he was a bit coy, he said as well as ingredients, the cooking method was very important and when i asked him to illucidate further, all he said was that the first 30 seconds or so are the most important .. but that was all i got out of him ..
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Derek Dansak on January 27, 2009, 03:38 PM
Hi CA, i have often thought this spiced oil is the answer. however from time spent in a bir kitchen i did not see them using such oil. they could have been lying when they said they only used veg oil. i think they did hold back on some secrets of the trade, as they stand to gain nothing by revealling all. however during my demo's over several weeks, i was baffled as to how they got those missing flavors. its odd. it must be something to do with bulk cooking and possibly the oil. wish i new the answer mate :)
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Frying Tonight on January 27, 2009, 05:33 PM
CoryAnder, have you tried going to a BIR and purchasing some oil from the top of a simmering base?  Cook with it, and then you'll know.   
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: haldi on January 27, 2009, 05:36 PM
We all are trying to get a 100% result
I am extremely miffed that I have done this four times using BIR oil.
I have had about a litre of the stuff, taken from the top of a restaurant curry gravy.
I used it in conjunction with home made curry gravy and it was incredible.
The aroma of this oil heating up was absolutely euphoric

This oil is SO important
At all the demos I have been to they fry the garlic/ginger for ages and it doesn't brown
If I use fresh oil (or even my salvaged curry gravy oil) things start burning after moments.

I have watched them start a dish with tomato puree cooking in the oil
They lazily spread it around the pan as the flames leap up.
When I cook tomato puree it turns dark and bitter very quickly.

The oil tastes amazing and affects how everything is cooked
You are cooking all the ingredients in a totally different way
The gas is up high but the oil temperature is low

Please someone else, try it

Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: SnS on January 27, 2009, 05:58 PM
Is there a difference between 'recycled' oil and 'seasoned' oil?

I definitely think so. Purposely seasoned oil may well be the answer to that missing 5%.

I ask because seasoned fresh oil is used in other branches of Asian cookery.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Unclebuck on January 27, 2009, 06:26 PM
Quote
How to Make Spicy Oil ?
this pops it head up from time to time heres some older threads

Spiced Oil Recipe
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=789.0

Spiced oil
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=735.0

It's in the oil and technique used - I think!
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=190.msg1069#msg1069

Spiced oil from a BIR
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=782.0
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Cory Ander on January 27, 2009, 11:13 PM
I don't think you replicate it at home due to the volumes a fully running BIR will go through

I'm not suggesting we try to produce it in exactly the same way as BIRs do (i.e. loads of frying, of large volumes of ingredients, in loads of oil).

I'm suggesting we "create" an alternative method for producing a spiced oil infusion...e.g. by frying a mixture of spices/garlic/ginger/onions/chillis, etc, in, say, a litre of oil.

I'm sure that, if it is done in a BIR, it can be reproduced at home...and probably with more consistent and reproducable results.

The question is how?
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Cory Ander on January 27, 2009, 11:17 PM
from time spent in a bir kitchen i did not see them using such oil

Yes, I anticipated that this one would raise it's head.  A number of members have also stated that their local BIRs only use fresh oil.  The trouble for me is that I've exhausted any other viable (and realistic) options that I can think of!
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Curry King on January 27, 2009, 11:21 PM
I'm sure that, if it is done in a BIR, it can be reproduced at home...and probably with more consistent and reproducable results.

The question is how?

I have been told on a number of occasions that oil is not reused, wether or not they are telling the truth I don't know.  I used to use my own 'spiced oil' in the past and it never made that much of a difference, not enough to bother scooping it out and storing it separately every time.  After Haldi's experiments above I have an open mind and it would be intresting to see if anyone could reproduce this BIR oil.  
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Cory Ander on January 27, 2009, 11:29 PM
i think the flavour from the oil is a result of many many
usings.. it needs to be really infused with flavour to make much of a difference

I think you're probably right LB.....but I feel that there is no real reason why such an infused spicy oil can't be "synthesised" at home....but by using a different method (than BIRs use) for that purpose alone...
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Cory Ander on January 27, 2009, 11:31 PM
CoryAnder, have you tried going to a BIR and purchasing some oil from the top of a simmering base?  Cook with it, and then you'll know.   

This is what Haldi (and I think MarkJ) have done.  It is Haldi's conviction that this enables him to fully replicate decent BIR curries that motivates me to pursue reproducing this spicy oil at home...

...I know CurryQueen is also a keen advocate.

Here are some pics of the stuff MarkJ got from his local BIR:
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Cory Ander on January 27, 2009, 11:33 PM
Is there a difference between 'recycled' oil and 'seasoned' oil?

I guess I'm assuming that "recycled/reused" oil is also "seasoned" so, to me, they become one in the same? 

Quote
Purposely seasoned oil may well be the answer to that missing 5%

Yes, this is what I'm suggesting SnS

Quote
I ask because seasoned fresh oil is used in other branches of Asian cookery.

Absolutely!
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Cory Ander on January 27, 2009, 11:34 PM
heres some older threads

Thanks for the links UB..interesting to read and also to see how old these are!
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: adriandavidb on January 27, 2009, 11:45 PM
I have only seen ONE 'demo', a curry cooked for me years back, fresh oil was used.  However it was a good curry, but not a fantastic one!
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Cory Ander on January 27, 2009, 11:47 PM
I used to use my own 'spiced oil' in the past and it never made that much of a difference, not enough to bother scooping it out and storing it separately every time

Have you simply scooped it off your curry base and off any curries that you've made CK?  This seems to be the most common practice by members who use a spiced oil?

What about making a spiced oil infusion specically for the purpose?  Has anyone tried that?
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Cory Ander on January 27, 2009, 11:50 PM
I don't think you replicate it at home

I don't think I'll EVER accept that CK!  :P ;D
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: chowie on January 28, 2009, 03:37 AM

After seeing the Malik videos before I've since thought oil has a big part to play. But the oil that's in your base and a fair bit too. Oil does add to the taste for me, last curries I made I used oil from the base, mixed it with some oil I used for Pakoras and popadoms and added some chili oil all mixed in a bowl and used that for making the final curry, but ultimately I would like to try the following one day.

I think it can be done at home, but you will have to eat curry all week maybe longer.

Example, make a base, use around 60-70% of it then make another base and add the remaining old base and continue and after many changes you should have some well spiced oil in that base and into your dishes. A constant base out on the stove and making allot of curry, or I suppose you could throw it away each day but that's just cruel, maybe freeze a bit each day.

Just writing this reminds me, it's a bit like keeping a fish tank healthy, anyone whose kept fish may relate to that, you just can't start a fresh tank everytime you clean it, the water needs to be chemically matured and balanced.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Derek Dansak on January 28, 2009, 08:02 AM
Ok Haldi you have convinced me to try this oil, sounds cool. i will have to pluck up courage to ask to purchase some oil next visit to the local bir. Haldi do you think they make this oil as a by product of bulk cooking? or do you think they make it separetely? surely reclaiming oil from base will only ever provide enough oil for at most 20 customers? 
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Derek Dansak on January 28, 2009, 08:11 AM
when making the ashoka banjura onion paste try doubling the recomended amount of oil. the end result is a onion paste swimming in oil. however the oil is very good reclaimed oil. i used grapeseed oil.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Cory Ander on January 28, 2009, 08:36 AM
when making the ashoka banjura onion paste try doubling the recomended amount of oil

Yes, I've tried that DD.  The problem is (if you still want the onion paste) that the onions end up frying rather than caramelising (you only want a little oil for caramelising the onions) and the oil tastes predominantly oniony (as you might expect).  Otherwise, I think it's along the right track.

Haldi - what does your bought BIR oil taste and smell like?
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Derek Dansak on January 28, 2009, 09:15 AM
thanks for the Tips CA, i have never been shown how to caramalize onions, so will try that suggestion.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: CurryOnRegardless on January 28, 2009, 09:57 AM
hi DD

try a Youtube search for caramelised onions...

CoR
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: SnS on January 28, 2009, 12:16 PM
I used to use my own 'spiced oil' in the past and it never made that much of a difference, not enough to bother scooping it out and storing it separately every time

Have you simply scooped it off your curry base and off any curries that you've made CK?  This seems to be the most common practice by members who use a spiced oil?

What about making a spiced oil infusion specically for the purpose?  Has anyone tried that?

This was my previous point - the difference between 'reclaimed' oil versus purposely 'seasoned' oil. One is not the same as the other. Although both are actually 'seasoned', the latter would be developed to achieve a specific taste using a 'recipe'.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Secret Santa on January 28, 2009, 09:45 PM
The question is how?

Pay attention boy! (followed by a severe ear thwacking).

I posted a few weeks ago in response to haldi I think. It's easy, sort of, you use a small volume of oil and 'expose it' to all the normal BIR stuff like samosa, bhaji, pakora, onions and peppers, etc.

Just cook all your normal stuff in it over a week or so and that should do it.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: chinois on January 28, 2009, 10:00 PM
surely reclaiming oil from base will only ever provide enough oil for at most 20 customers? 

That's what i've always thought.
The oil from the bunjara works well i think. It smells amazing when heating it up!
You just top the oil up afterwards, stir the oil into the onion paste and put it back in the fridge. Mine didnt taste 'oniony' as the onions were consistently dark brown and so the taste was sweet, savoury and curry-like.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Secret Santa on January 28, 2009, 10:50 PM
The oil from a 'good' base will provide one chef's spoon per curry all night long, until the base itself runs out. Watch the malik's videos if you don't believe me.

Using the oil from the bunjara is an option but not a normal procedure I would conjecture. It's an Ashoka thing and nothing more.

If you really want to experience the true POWER of reused oil then add extra oil while making your curry (feel free to chip in anytime CQ) and recover this. Then use this on your next curry. It is not what the BIRs do but it is so good that you'll never look back. I'm guessing that in its small way it replicates what the BIRs do on a larger scale.

Try it!
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Unclebuck on January 29, 2009, 12:27 PM
The oil from a 'good' base will provide one chef's spoon per curry all night long, until the base itself runs out. Watch the malik's videos if you don't believe me.

Correctymondo!! when the base runs out of floating oil they just add fresh oil to the pot see em do it.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: JerryM on January 29, 2009, 04:51 PM
Correctymondo!! when the base runs out of floating oil they just add fresh oil to the pot see em do it.

interesting - u'd think it would dilute the base sauce - one to ponder (glad u pointed it out UB i must have missed that part of the webcam).

i use reclaimed oil and swear by it. Curryqueen put me onto it and Malacara got me started on the method.

I aim to use no more than half the reclaimed oil for cooking and recycle what's left into the next base.

There's a lot of info on the site (links added below) but a few things remain unresolved for me:

1) "yellow" curry base oil (essentially no paprika, currypowder or garam in the base) does not give the same depth of taste as ?red? curry base oil (most bases on the site produce this). maliks and my local BIR TA use yellow oil though.
2) Having only tasted the finished dish oil from my local TA (which is red) I?m not sure which spices are needed in the base to optimise the taste of the curry base oil and which are added at the frying stage.

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=190.msg1069#msg1069
 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=190.msg1069#msg1069) - real good read started by ghanna
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,602.0.html (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,602.0.html)
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=190.msg1069#msg1069 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=190.msg1069#msg1069)
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2684.msg23835#msg23835
 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2684.msg23835#msg23835)

UB's earlier links are also essential readinghttp://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3295.msg29728#msg29728 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3295.msg29728#msg29728)
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: haldi on January 29, 2009, 05:10 PM
Haldi - what does your bought BIR oil taste and smell like?

It has "the taste"
It's smells slightly spicy and also a bit of fried onions.
All in all it's quite subtle

Haldi do you think they make this oil as a by product of bulk cooking? or do you think they make it separetely?

I think it's used oil added into the gravy
I am still trying to duplicate it myself
The problem is:-
What do you do with all the fried food that has to be cooked in it?
I tried keeping the oil for a month,while I cooked bhajees, chips & pakora in it, and mine went bad
I didn't think oil would do that
Having said that, I didn't keep it in the fridge
The oil never got the right colour either
It stayed far too golden



Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: curryqueen on January 29, 2009, 07:15 PM
AT LAST!!!!  It has finally sunk in to some.  I am so glad that some of you have tried oil reclaiming as I swear by it and have done for years now.  Unless you try this method then you'll never know, lets face it you havn't a lot to lose. Go for it! CQ
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: parker21 on January 29, 2009, 10:01 PM
hi CQ great to hear from you again :) wondered if you had fallen by the wayside as darthy baby had. are you still cooking your vindaloos? and have you had anymore demos? what base recipe are you using now?
won't inudate you with too many questions but overwhelmed to hear from you again.
regards
gary
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Cory Ander on January 30, 2009, 12:49 AM
the difference between 'reclaimed' oil versus purposely 'seasoned' oil. One is not the same as the other. Although both are actually 'seasoned', the latter would be developed to achieve a specific taste using a 'recipe'.

I understand what you're saying SnS but, to me, they are just alternative means (i.e. reclaiming oil versus synthesising it) to an end (i.e. spicy/seasoned oil).

It seems to me that, so far, there appears to be three alternatives:

1.  Get it from your BIR (this will obviously be quickest and give the best match, but how to produce it will still remain a mystery)

2.  Generate it by constantly reclaiming the oil from bases and other cooked dishes (this seems to be the most common practice but it is bound to give variable results and it relies, to some extent, on cooking large volumes of food)

3.  Synthesise it (as you indicate) to a known recipe and procedure (a replica oil might be hard to attain but it would otherwise provide the most controlled, consistent and repeatable method I believe)

It is the third option that I intend to focus on (not much seems to have been done here...though I do note Ghanna's recipe for an Ethiopian seasoned oil which I might try and/or adapt?). 

My initial intent is to take a litre or so of vegetable oil and fry whole spices (e.g. cummin, coriander, cassia, chillies), powdered spices (e.g. tumeric, paprika) and onions, garlic, ginger, and tomato paste and filter.

I'm hoping that this will produce a red coloured, sweet, spicy, oniony, garlicky seasoned oil similar to what would be naturally produced in a BIR.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: haldi on January 30, 2009, 07:45 AM
I'm hoping that this will produce a red coloured, sweet, spicy, oniony, garlicky seasoned oil similar to what would be naturally produced in a BIR.
It must have the low smoking point too
When you fry in reclaimed oil, everything cooks very slowly
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Unclebuck on January 30, 2009, 07:32 PM
Watch Maliks video K

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3102.0

about 3 Min's in.. you can see the used/spiced oil, Then the chef gently scoops more oil from the existing base and adds it to that gigantic pot! they obviously think its important.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: haldi on January 31, 2009, 08:51 AM
Watch Maliks video K
about 3 Min's in.. you can see the used/spiced oil, Then the chef gently scoops more oil from the existing base and adds it to that gigantic pot! they obviously think its important.

Yes, you're right
I'd forgotton how big their cooking pots are
They must be a very busy place
Did anyone say they'd had food from there?
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: JerryM on January 31, 2009, 09:36 AM
Watch Maliks video K

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3102.0

about 3 Min's in.. you can see the used/spiced oil, Then the chef gently scoops more oil from the existing base and adds it to that gigantic pot! they obviously think its important.


i'm surprised how little they recycle into the next batch.

on a similar note but along the lines of Haldi's intererst in used oil - i saw on the live cam old fryer oil being put into the base - quite a lot it something like 2 or 3L. i've taken no interest as it's not an area i feel i'd like or need to go.

on a personal front i too am well pleased to hear from Curryqueen - have really enjoyed reading the posts.

Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Panpot on January 31, 2009, 10:34 AM
 I too am delighted that CQ has posted,thanks you have been a big influence along with other stalwarts past and present here,making progress early on with your recipes and encouragement sucked me into the site and without it I would probably never have got myself in behind the scene at The Ashoka. Elsewhere I have been looking for your recipe for Pilau Rice and have encouraged others to use it but it seems to have been archived, perhaps you could re-post it.

Anyway I am involve in a health project that involves using oils and the advice from the experts is to store oil in dark opaque containers even tin and to use it within four weeks once opened. Without becoming a bore the chef at the Ashoka used the surplus oil from the Bunjarra and would supplement form any surplus from any dish particularly that day as the cooked multi portions for their Buffet Night.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: George on February 02, 2009, 03:40 PM
It is the third option that I intend to focus on (not much seems to have been done here...though I do note Ghanna's recipe for an Ethiopian seasoned oil which I might try and/or adapt

CA - I agree with your approach here. It must be possible to synthesize any flavoured oil you like, even if it's not what the BIRs do.

I tried Ghanna's Ethiopian seasoned oil some 2-3 years ago. It was sensational in terms of the aroma produced in the kitchen and outside the back door, probably. In terms of aroma intensity, it was probably the closest I've got to being outside a BIR. But I do mean intensity. It smelled great in its own right but it wasn't the BIR smell. So, I thought, all I need to do to move from Ethiopia to a UK BIR is remove one or two ingredients and add a few more until I arrive at the 'BIR aroma'. I made a couple of attempts and then gave up. I never even used the oil which I produced. I should have tried to make a 'unique' dish like a Biryani or something just to make use of that fine oil, even if it was nothing like a BIR biryani. It might well have been better!

My experiment had me thinking that the smell from BIRs in the afternoon, before they open even, might well be coming from mass oil production. A curry teacher who sometimes advertises on this site mentions the importance of flavoured oils, too.

Regards
George
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: parker21 on February 02, 2009, 10:07 PM
hi george great to hear from you again been a long time! how's your BIR curry cooking going? are you any closer to that bir curry?  just made a CT vindaloo to combat the cold/snowy weather we are having down here in kent(6" so far). anyway have you had any demos since you last posted?
regards
gary
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: iamzegatron on March 28, 2009, 02:33 AM
I've had some fairly decent results from my attempts to "synthesise" the spiced oils.  The end results look pretty similar to MarkJ's pictures shown earlier in this thread, a nice reddy goldy colour, tastes savoury with sweetness and spice underneath and smell fantastic.

Essentially I use the same method as making a stock for soup except with oil rather than water. Heating bits of vegetables and seasoning over a low temperature for a fairly long time.

I use a small bottle of oil and really just use what ever is at hand to flavour it. Some pepper, or even just the cores - if thats the word - from the pepper as these impart quite a bit of flavour,  some onion, a few green chillies, a couple cloves of garlic, bay leaves, pepper corns, cumin and coriander seeds, some coriander stalks etc and some spice mix to try to marry the flavour of the oil to that of the finished dish / base.  I'd say the closer the ingredients you use are to those in your base the closer the oil will taste to the oil you would reclaim from your base.

I then put it over a low heat for a good few hours to flavour - the longer the better, I'd say this is the most important aspect, the same as with stock - and then leave to cool and infuse further overnight.  I run it through a sieve or colander  to remove the whole spices, veg etc and then through a coffee filter to remove the sediment from the spice powders and pour it back in the bottle and keep it in the fridge.

I suppose its quite similar to making a base except with no other liquid, or any thing that will melt and turn in to a liquid, other than the oil meaning you can reclaim 100%.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Cory Ander on October 08, 2009, 09:59 AM
I have been attempting to make spiced oil and decided to try making it as follows:

Ingredients:

- 500ml vegetable oil
- 400g onions (coarsely chopped)
- 1 tbsp garlic (pureed)
- 1 tsp ginger (pureed)
- 1 tbsp green capsicum (diced)
- 2 tbsp tomato paste
- 2 tbsp spice mix (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3765.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3765.0))
- 2 tbsp curry powder
- 1 brown cardamom
- 6 green cardamoms
- 2 inch stick of cassia bark
- 1 star anise
- 1 tsp panch phoran
- 1 clove
- 2 litres water
- 1 tbsp sugar

Method:

- Heat oil and gently fry onions for a few minutes until soft
- Add whole spices and gently fry for 2 minutes
- Add garlic, ginger and green capsicum and gently fry for 2 minutes
- Add tomato paste and powdered spices and gently fry for 2 minutes
- Add water and sugar and gently simmer (covered) for 3 hours
- Skim oil from the surface and filter through a colander to remove any solids
- Filter through several layers of muslin cloth to remove fine particles
- Store in a plastic bottle in the fridge

Results:

The resultant oil was orange/red colour, sweetish, and tasted and smelt pleasantly of onions and spices. 

Comments:

I have no idea if this looks or tastes like the oil that BIRs may use to cook their curries because I have never seen or tasted any, but it looks and tastes similar to the oil that is released from the BIR curries themselves.

I chose a method that resembles the preparation of a curry base except this was made for the sole purpose of making the spiced oil (I ditched the solids).  I am uncertain that removing lots of oil from a curry base is sensible since it is likely to diminish the spice flavours in the curry base.

I believe synthesising spiced oil has merits and would welcome any comments or suggestions on the best way to prepare it.

I haven't cooked with it yet and will provide an update when I have.

Here is a picture:
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: joshallen2k on October 08, 2009, 03:26 PM
CA,

I was planning on trying out your base this weekend. I will do so and send pics.

Also figured out I would try your spiced oil recipe at the same time. I tried to do an "old oil" trial of my own using deep fryer oil, but by the time it was getting close to dark brown, I felt it was also getting rancid. Some others have posted about this - the volume problem. So I'm looking forward to trying yours.

Question - since I'm making a fresh batch of base, do you think there would be any benefit in using some of the spiced oil to make the base recipe?

One of the things Haldi suggested was using a 50/50 mix of fresh of "used" oil when making the base. Appreciate your thoughts.

Thx,
Josh
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Cory Ander on October 08, 2009, 04:27 PM
Hi Josh,

I haven't tried this oil in a curry base yet.  I've only tried it in a saag aloo and it made it taste better.

I have tried chip oil (from my own deep fat fryer, used for various cooking, chips, onion bhajis, etc) and oil from a fast food chicken outlet (which also fries some fish in it) and I ended up ditching those curry bases; they smelt and tasted disgusting!

Therefore, I don't know (yet) if adding this specially spiced oil to a (the) curry base will improve it or not.  I'd hazard a guess that it will add something positive to it but I don't actually know for sure (yet).  I'd be interested to know how you get on if you try, but you'd probably need to do a side-by-side comparison to be sure.

From what some people have said, oil from somewhere like a KFC (no frying of fish?) may also probably be worth a go?  Again, you'd probably have to do a side-by-side comparison to be sure.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: joshallen2k on October 08, 2009, 07:35 PM
CA - I was just reading through the spiced oil recipe, and noticed that it includes 2 liters of water. Cooking covered for three hours, wouldn't the final liquid be very watery? Is there a skimming step involved, or did you intend a water/oil mix?
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Cory Ander on October 09, 2009, 03:50 AM
Well spotted Josh!  I missed the skimming step and have now added it.  Thanks for mentioning it  8)

Just as background, I decided to add water because I felt that the ingredients would burn if I only used oil.  However, this does present a bit of a problem with subsequently separating the oil from the water. 

I recovered about 400ml of oil from the original 500ml (80% recovery).

Another point is that it is difficult to separate the fine particles (i.e. powdered spices) from the oil, despite the filtering steps.  It does worry be a bit that residual water and/or particles might diminish the shelf-life of the oil. 

I suppose the same is true of the vegetable ingredients (e.g. garlic) I used to make it.

I considered just using whole spices, but I wanted that rich red/orange/yellow colour, which I figure is from the tumeric and paprika.  I suppose whole tumeric, rather than powdered, could be used instead.

Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Cory Ander on October 09, 2009, 04:27 AM
I have to say, last night I added a little of the spiced oil to my saag aloo and refried it a bit. 

It certainly added oodles of BIR smell and flavour  8)

This morning, when I poured boiling water into the empty balti dish, to wash it, the BIR smell leapt up and hit me BIG time!  Very nice!  :P

Looking promising, I'd say.

Here's a photo of my saag aloo (note the oil around the edges):
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: JerryM on October 09, 2009, 08:24 AM
Josh,

for defo use the spiced oil for making the base. i found the best oil was produced having been recycled through 3 off bases.

i now use a little marg in every base but it reduces the shelf life of the reclaimed oil to the extent i no longer recycle it into the next base. overall i find the compromise worth it.

CA,

inspirational stuff. i really gel with most of the the whole spice in the spec. i really recommend doing a side by side with reclaimed from base though. just add the oil spec into the base spec to make a combined base spec.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Secret Santa on October 09, 2009, 01:37 PM
Another point is that it is difficult to separate the fine particles (i.e. powdered spices) from the oil, despite the filtering steps.  It does worry be a bit that residual water and/or particles might diminish the shelf-life of the oil.

Try doubled-up coffee filters in a funnel.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: PaulP on October 09, 2009, 01:55 PM
That oil looks good CA. Are you planning to make a base with it, use it for final cooking or both?

From what I've read regarding garlic in oil it should be ok refrigerated for about 3 weeks or in a freezer for a few months. I don't know whether the oil would actually freeze solid or not.

Looking forward to your feedback on using this oil.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Cory Ander on October 09, 2009, 02:00 PM
Try doubled-up coffee filters in a funnel.

Sheesh, SS, I used one and that took forever! I need a CENTRIFUGE!  :P
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Cory Ander on October 09, 2009, 02:10 PM
That oil looks good CA. Are you planning to make a base with it, use it for final cooking or both?

From what I've read regarding garlic in oil it should be ok refrigerated for about 3 weeks or in a freezer for a few months. I don't know whether the oil would actually freeze solid or not.

Hi PaulP,

Initially I intend to use it to make main curries.  Thereafter, I will use it to in my curry base.  It certainly smells the part and seems to impart that BIR taste too.

Regarding garlic, maybe I should leave it out (given the mooted health implications) together with some of (or all) the other vegetables?

I haven't tried freezing the spiced oil yet. 

Hmmmm, come to think of it, I've never met anyone who's suffered from botulism either!  :P  Perhaps I haven't lived (or died!).....

I don't present this as the final say on synthesising spiced oil though! 

I'd be very happy to hear of others' suggestions on how to do it better!  I'm sure the topic has great merit!  8) 

Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Cory Ander on October 09, 2009, 02:44 PM
Hmmm, interesting, regarding "botulism", according to Wikipedia, it has this to say:

"is a rare but serious paralytic illness"

"the most common form in Western countries is infant botulism"

"...for this reason honey should not be fed to infants less than one year of age. It is now sufficiently well known not to feed honey to babies. Due to the success of this public health message, fewer than 5% of recent infant botulism cases have been exposed to honey"

"the only known prevention measure for infant botulism is to avoid feeding honey to infants less than 12 months of age"

"while commercially canned goods are required to undergo a "botulinum cook" at 121 ?C (250 ?F) for 3 minutes, and so rarely cause botulism, there have been notable exceptions such as the 1978 Alaskan salmon outbreak and the 2007 Castleberry's Food Company outbreak. Foodborne botulism has more frequently been from home-canned foods with low acid content, such as carrot juice, asparagus, green beans, beets, and corn"

"oils infused with garlic or herbs should be refrigerated"

Ha! Perhaps I'm worrying unnecessarily then!  ::)
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Derek Dansak on October 15, 2009, 11:14 AM
I read that garlic and oil should be good for a week in the fridge at most. it depends if the garlic had the botulism on it in the first place. most garlic wont, but some will on the rare occasion. the botulism is from the soil, which then gets on the garlic. this is rare, but you are fxxcked if you do get it, very nasty. i no longer store my garlic paste or oil with garlic for more than a week in the fridge. maybe freezing the oil is better??
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Mikka1 on October 16, 2009, 01:12 PM
Having nearly done everything and having come in after a few hours to smell my house, think its on the nail, only to find I have to wait three days for it to taste anything like the restaurant version I'm sold on this and will have a go a.s.a.p.

Some of the images here look just about right on the oil. I've suspected something like this might be responsible for some time but never really looked into it.  :'(

It makes complete 100% sense to me, even if you do reclaim it but I won't be doing that.
As regards straining the contents a muslin cloth or an old cotton T-Towel should do the trick. I've used this method many times when straining chicken stock.

Thanks very much for an open forum folks.
 ;D



Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Mikka1 on October 18, 2009, 05:26 PM
I thought you might find this interesting?
http://www.yelp.com/topic/chicago-ayurvedic-or-relatively-healthy-indian-food-in-chicago (http://www.yelp.com/topic/chicago-ayurvedic-or-relatively-healthy-indian-food-in-chicago)

"(believe me if you find it oily here, you'd have no words for how oily it can be in India)"

&

"Also the pool of oil can also be due to the fact that they add heated oil with spices in at the end of the cooked dish as a garnish(kind of). So for example, "Dal Tadka" - the 'tadka' is that pool of heated oil with spices like cumin, mustard seeds, red chillies, bay leaves, etc in it."

I've just got my pan out with oil in it. Just looking for the various recipes now.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Mikka1 on October 18, 2009, 07:30 PM
Just made mine....

500 mls veg oil (Will use ghee next time)
1 tsp Cumin seed.
3 green Cardamom
1 Black Cardamom
1 small onion large chunks (I used this to gauge the temp).
2 Dried red chillies
1 1/2 inch piece cinamon.
1 1/2 tsp Panch Phoran

I placed the whole lot in cold oil and warmed it until I could see the edges of the onion turning light brown and allowed to cool.

The result is pretty much what I see here frankly but one thing I will say is that it smelled wonderful while it was at a brisk heat, no different to my bahjis at all in fact.

I forgot to add whole coriander seeds :-\

I'm sure it will make a huge difference frankly to the final dish and another point that I found quite by mistake is that what I smell in my Spinach dishes is in fact.

Asofotida (Phew!)

Anyway I think it will work provided there is enough of a marriage with stronger spicing at the start.   
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Bobby Bhuna on October 29, 2009, 06:12 PM
I have been attempting to make spiced oil and decided to try making it as follows:

Hi CA,

I thought I'd give this a shot with a few changes. I didn't see that onion or capsicum would contribute a great deal , so I omitted them. The same can be said for the panch phoran and sugar.  I decided to add some fresh green chillies since I'm always trying to impart more of a chili flavour into my curries.

I also did not filter my oil as I don't imagine oil reclaimed from a base (if this is what we're suggesting BIRs do, which I believe it is) would be particularly refined.

I also got about a 400ml yield. That last thin layer just makes you end up getting the watery leftovers when skimming with your spoon.

I will try this out tonight. It smells good - quite strong and super aromatic. Hopefully this will that extra something I've been looking for.

Cheers

BB.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Mikka1 on October 29, 2009, 06:33 PM
I used my version this afternoon. It did make a difference initially but after everything else went in anything from that was totally smothered, I couldn't really tell it was there to be completely honest.

Yesterday I didn't use it but used 'Whole' Garam Masala and fresh chilis along with my tom paste which was also missing today. That was a much better dish all round to be honest. (yesterday). After all I've said I don't think it will do much in a heavily spiced curry so along with the health factor in reusing oil I won't be doing this again unless someone or I can verify that it makes any intense difference at all?

Yesterday very hot oil and whole spices really did prove to win out. Not seen this however in any curry video I've seen that was 'supposed' to be a BIR. Odd innit.  ::)

The Indian Lady I know told me to boil the onions then blend them before adding them to my Spinach. I'll try this next time.

Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Bobby Bhuna on October 29, 2009, 10:41 PM
I couldn't really tell it was there to be completely honest.

I'm afraid I share your view. Just tried it now with a Madras. No major change. :(
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Cory Ander on October 30, 2009, 12:40 AM
I didn't see that onion or capsicum would contribute a great deal , so I omitted them. The same can be said for the panch phoran and sugar.  I decided to add some fresh green chillies since I'm always trying to impart more of a chili flavour into my curries

You may be right BB.  I only made the oil this way because I figured the method resembled making a highly spiced curry base (i.e. and is therefore similar to the oil that BIRs may use if and when they reclaim it from their curry base). 

My thinking was that the onions might be important for that "oniony" flavour.  And the sugar was to there to make the oil sweet, obviously.

I didn't add chillies (or chilli powder), either, because I wanted an oil that was versatile enough (i.e. not hot) to use in mild dishes (such as korma) too.

I have recently made a hot spiced oil (I was really after taking bitterness out of the chilli powder) by simply frying chilli powder in lots of oil.  The oil actually comes out very nice, with a nice BIR aroma and lovely deep red colour.  It may be OK for kormas too, I'm not sure yet.

I definitely don't present the method as the final say in making spiced oil....I'd welcome loads more suggestions for improvement.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Cory Ander on October 30, 2009, 12:45 AM
I couldn't really tell it was there to be completely honest.

I'm afraid I share your view. Just tried it now with a Madras. No major change. :(

I agree too Bobby.  To be honest, I think the effect of using spiced oil (this oil, anyway) is marginal rather than major. 

But I do think it's an incremental improvement and definitely worth pursuing (perhaps using a more simple method removing some of the perishable ingredients).
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Bobby Bhuna on October 30, 2009, 12:46 AM
I didn't add chillies (or chilli powder), either, because I wanted an oil that was versatile enough (i.e. not hot) to use in mild dishes (such as korma) too.

Hahaha, I knew that was coming, and I'm sure you know what my response is going to be. Stop making poofy curries!!! :D A Korma doesn't need the same level of savoury spiciness as decent curries. It just need sweet coconutty creaminess.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Cory Ander on October 30, 2009, 01:24 AM
Korma doesn't need the same level of savoury spiciness as decent curries. It just need sweet coconutty creaminess.

Ahhhhhh, that's where you and I disagree then Bobby!  Because, to me, a decent BIR Korma ALSO has that savoury BIR taste and smell (and a degree of spicy oiliness to boot!)!  :P

And, to my mind, is MUCH harder to produce in mild curries, like kormas......
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Bobby Bhuna on October 31, 2009, 01:23 PM
And, to my mind, is MUCH harder to produce in mild curries, like kormas......

I wouldn't know because I'm not a big girl.  ;D
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Bobby Bhuna on November 17, 2009, 09:55 PM
Hey guys. Around a week ago, I reached for the spiced oil from the fridge. A black spot of mold was on top. That was around 2 weeks after making it. I can't promise I always used a clean spoon for it however. I may have fried the onions, garlic, ginger, etc and used the same spoon to top up a little. I don't think so, but as you know, when the curries cooking, there's little time to spare!

I would also like to add that the star anise adds too much of its flavour and smell to the oil. I've never liked the use of it in Indian food - I think it doesn't work well in CA's rice either. It has a Chinese food type taste to me.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Cory Ander on November 18, 2009, 12:22 AM
I would also like to add that the star anise adds too much of its flavour and smell to the oil. I've never liked the use of it in Indian food - I think it doesn't work well in CA's rice either. It has a Chinese food type taste to me.

Interesting comment, BB, because some people would put star anise forward as a "secret ingredient" of BIRs!  :P

I agree that it has a very distinctive and powerful taste and needs to be used in moderation (if at all)!
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: 976bar on November 28, 2009, 01:41 PM
I have been attempting to make spiced oil and decided to try making it as follows:

Ingredients:

- 500ml vegetable oil
- 400g onions (coarsely chopped)
- 1 tbsp garlic (pureed)
- 1 tsp ginger (pureed)
- 1 tbsp green capsicum (diced)
- 2 tbsp tomato paste
- 2 tbsp spice mix (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3765.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3765.0))
- 2 tbsp curry powder
- 1 brown cardamom
- 6 green cardamoms
- 2 inch stick of cassia bark
- 1 star anise
- 1 tsp panch phoran
- 1 clove
- 2 litres water
- 1 tbsp sugar

Method:

- Heat oil and gently fry onions for a few minutes until soft
- Add whole spices and gently fry for 2 minutes
- Add garlic, ginger and green capsicum and gently fry for 2 minutes
- Add tomato paste and powdered spices and gently fry for 2 minutes
- Add water and sugar and gently simmer (covered) for 3 hours
- Skim oil from the surface and filter through a colander to remove any solids
- Filter through several layers of muslin cloth to remove fine particles
- Store in a plastic bottle in the fridge

Results:

The resultant oil was orange/red colour, sweetish, and tasted and smelt pleasantly of onions and spices. 

Comments:

I have no idea if this looks or tastes like the oil that BIRs may use to cook their curries because I have never seen or tasted any, but it looks and tastes similar to the oil that is released from the BIR curries themselves.

I chose a method that resembles the preparation of a curry base except this was made for the sole purpose of making the spiced oil (I ditched the solids).  I am uncertain that removing lots of oil from a curry base is sensible since it is likely to diminish the spice flavours in the curry base.

I believe synthesising spiced oil has merits and would welcome any comments or suggestions on the best way to prepare it.

I haven't cooked with it yet and will provide an update when I have.

Here is a picture:

What is Panch Phoran please?
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Cory Ander on November 28, 2009, 01:47 PM
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1281.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1281.0)
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Stephen Lindsay on November 28, 2009, 11:40 PM
What is Panch Phoran please?

Panch Phoran is a mixture of 5 spices in equal quantities:

Fenugreek
Nigella seed
Mustard seed
Fennel seed
Cumin seed

It is rarely if ever mentioned in BIR recipes, but you will fine it in older curry cookery books dating from the sixties and seventies. When you make up Panch Phoran use small measures, e.g. a half teaspoon of each spice.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: jasper on January 17, 2010, 09:15 PM
In my local curryhouse they always fry a few kilos of onions in a lot of oil (few liter), they add some red bell pepper, garlic, ginger, tomatopaste and a few tomatoes together with a spicemix consisting of:

4 parts  paprika
1 part  turmeric
1 part coriander
1 part cumin
1 part salt

The scoop of the oil after (1 hour of boiling) and they put it in a jar.

When making the final curry they use a base sauce, they put in a little bit of the fried onion mix (from above) and they put in a few spoons of the oil. The oil has a nice red color.

So I think CA is on the right way with the oil, but why not simply add a little bit more oil to our base sauce and scoop that off??

grtz Jasper
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Cory Ander on January 18, 2010, 02:37 AM
Hi Jasper,

The "fried onion mix" sounds like the base to me?  Do they have a blended and an unblended version of the same thing?

Ahhh, I see, this is similar to the base ingredients but fried (no water)?  In which case, it isn't too dissimilar to how I produced my spiced oil then? 

Quote from: japser
why not simply add a little bit more oil to our base sauce and scoop that off?

Some members do this Jasper.  No doubt some BIRs do too.  Some BIRs no doubt use "reclaimed oil" from other sources (e.g. their deep fat fryers).  Some members reclaim the oil from to top of their final curries. 

It seems to me that reclaiming the oil from the base is bound to denude the base of some spiciness.  I therefore prefer to stir the oil back into the base.  You could compensate for this by adding more spice to the base, I suppose, and at least some of the spiced oil goes back into the final dish.

My personal preference is to synthesise the spiced oil to ensure better control of consistency and quality.  I also scoop off surplus oil from the final curry and use this.

Whatever the source, there is little doubt that the spiced oil contains oodles of BIR flavour and smell.

I suppose there are no rights or wrongs, just alternatives.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: JerryM on January 18, 2010, 06:37 PM
jasper,

the recipe u describe reminds me of "onion" paste or bunjarra. i think the extra oil must be what enables them to cook it much quicker than the methods posted on this site (takes around 3hrs c/w with their 1 hr).

Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Razor on June 02, 2010, 06:19 PM
Hi CA,

Are you still using this spiced oil or have you developed it any further?

Ray :)
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: artistpaul on June 02, 2010, 08:26 PM
Hi Guys and Gals

I know for certain that most Chinese TAs / restaurants always use 'sasoned oil' or as they refer to it as 'lian' ( tempered by fire )

They obviously produce large quantities for their TAs but a Chinese chef told me to scale down to use

600 ml Sunflower or veg oil

1 inch piece of peeled ginger chopped into 6 parts

Fry until ginger becomes a very deep golden brown

Remove ginger and bottle when cooled

No need to store in a fridge as no garlic has been fried in it the Chef stressed

Ive made it for years and it transforms fried rice dishes especially, but it is used for all cooking as that is what he said

He was at pains to point out they never  use fresh unseasoned oil except for the chip fryer

Cheers Paul
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: JerryM on June 03, 2010, 07:54 AM
artistpaul,

intriguing. what temp do u have the oil at.

i tried 70:30 ginger:garlic on my healthy curry but it did not work (as opposed to 30:70 say). i intend to re try when i cook properly on my next base. i'm searching for a taste and planning a TA to get a better handle on it. it's something simple and this could well be it.

effectively in the BIR cooking u are making this lian in the 1st stage of dish frying - it'll be interesting to find if u can get the heat out of the ginger but still extract the maximum flavour given that in BIR u have the garlic to contend with that fries more quickly (less dense i guess).
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: PaulP on January 20, 2011, 09:34 PM
In my local curryhouse they always fry a few kilos of onions in a lot of oil (few liter), they add some red bell pepper, garlic, ginger, tomatopaste and a few tomatoes together with a spicemix consisting of:

4 parts  paprika
1 part  turmeric
1 part coriander
1 part cumin
1 part salt

The scoop of the oil after (1 hour of boiling) and they put it in a jar.

When making the final curry they use a base sauce, they put in a little bit of the fried onion mix (from above) and they put in a few spoons of the oil. The oil has a nice red color.

So I think CA is on the right way with the oil, but why not simply add a little bit more oil to our base sauce and scoop that off??

grtz Jasper

Sorry to resurrect this old thread but I was taken aback by the post above from Jasper as it is so similar to the spiced oil recipe that I have adopted recently and that I have posted about previously.

I firmly believe that the last 5 or 10% of taste and aroma that many of us feel are missing can only be achieved through using special or spiced oil. I don't believe it's possible to recreate this at home just by cooking a 2.5 to 3 litre base for a couple of hours, whatever the recipe.

The oil recipe I'm using was devised by Pete (sced) from the other forum after he got talking to some TA staff who were having a fag break. Pete is a really nice guy and I'm not going to post his recipe here but the princples are interesting and maybe cr0 members who want to close the gap would be prepared to start experimenting on recipes like this and we could collaborate:

Several litres of fresh oil.
A large amount of chopped onions, probably 2x what you would use for a base sauce.
Several chopped peppers.
A quantity of whole peeled garlic cloves.
A large quantity of mix powder.

Basically the vegetables are fried first for about an hour, the garlic is then crushed into the oil (it is very soft by now) then the spices added and it is cooked for another hour or so.

Now you might think that something would burn, at least the spices but if you cook it on a low heat so it bubbles away nicely nothing gets burned. I used an oil thermometer on my last batch and the temperature stayed at 105 degrees C for the whole cooking process.

After cooking the oil is poured through a strainer and the onion/pepper mix is saved to add to your curries if you wish - it tastes very good.

Then make your base using this oil and cook with this oil. It freezes fine and can be rapidly defrosted for re-use.

I'm not saying all TAs do this, I'm sure they don't but I'm certain that some of them do. The same effect may be achieved in other ways I'm sure such as cooking huge bases (40 litres+) or reclaiming.

I'm still trying to fine tune but I feel this is the only way to advance our curries towards 100% BIR.
There is talk on the forum recently about new ventures and collaborations but I think plently of the recipes on this forum are fine as they are and we won't ever get 100% BIR just by coming up with minor variations on a base recipe made in home-style quantities.

A mistake that may be made when we talk about spiced oil is to believe that moorish taste comes from spices alone. IMO it is the taste of the onions in the oil as much as it is the spices.

Is anybody else interested in trying to develop this further?

Paul
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: gazman1976 on January 20, 2011, 09:39 PM
i would have a go in that direction paul
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: currymonster on January 21, 2011, 07:56 AM
Hi Paul,

I agree completely with your views. I think its this moorish onion taste which is missing from my curries. I eagerly await any further info/test results and could maybe find some time to participate in testing if you need more people.

CM
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: loveitspicy on June 19, 2011, 11:38 PM
I used this oil in Chicken Dansak - great taste - thank you
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: madmatt on October 06, 2011, 11:42 AM
I used this in CA's Dhansak also.Was very impressed(In the Dhansak) and hope the work that goes into the oil is worth it.
It really is a chore to make, and if the oil only lasts for a week or 2, then I wont be bothering again im afraid.
The shimming is a real pain in the butt!!
Great Dhansak though.
Cheers CA!
Matt
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on October 06, 2011, 02:26 PM
I used this oil in Chicken Dansak - great taste - thank you

I used this in CA's Dhansak also.Was very impressed(In the Dhansak) and hope the work that goes into the oil is worth it.  It really is a chore to make, and if the oil only lasts for a week or 2, then I wont be bothering again im afraid.  The shimming is a real pain in the butt!!  Great Dhansak though.  Cheers CA!  Matt

Could I just ask you both to clarify (no pun intended !) which recipe you have been using ?  This thread is now nine pages long, and it would be only to easy to think that you were referring to one recipe when you were  in fact referring to another.  A link to the exact message would be perfect !

** Phil.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: madmatt on October 09, 2011, 04:02 PM
I was referring to the original, on page 1

Matt
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: George on October 09, 2011, 10:48 PM
Could I just ask you both to clarify (no pun intended !) which recipe you have been using ?  ... A link to the exact message would be perfect !

Good question, as was CA's original query, approach and main point.

After madmatt's response, I'm now even more confused. I can't see a recipe on page 1. There are 4 links but, if that's what's meant, then which one?
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: madmatt on October 10, 2011, 04:20 PM
Apologies.
I thought this was the link that had the recipe on.Here is a link to CA's Spiced oil I made.

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3295.msg34667#msg34667 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3295.msg34667#msg34667)

On reflection the oil tasts great, but it is work to make.Time consuming, and make any main dish look simples to make, so I doubt I will bother again.Saying that my jar in the fridge is not showing any sighs of going mouldy yet.

Regards

Matt
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on October 11, 2011, 08:56 AM
Apologies.
I thought this was the link that had the recipe on.  Here  (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3295.msg34667#msg34667)is a link to CA's Spiced oil I made.
Many thanks, Matt : much appreciated.

Quote
On reflection the oil tasts great, but it is work to make.Time consuming, and make any main dish look simples to make, so I doubt I will bother again.Saying that my jar in the fridge is not showing any sighs of going mouldy yet.
I have used only recovered oil in the past, but may well give this one a try; as regards "going off", being oil I don't even store it in the 'fridge -- it just lurks on the working surface in a screw-top jar, is replenished whenever there is surplus oil in a dish, and never ever goes off !

** Phil.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: George on October 11, 2011, 10:24 AM
Apologies. I thought this was the link that had the recipe on.Here is a link to CA's Spiced oil I made.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3295.msg34667#msg34667 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3295.msg34667#msg34667)
On reflection the oil tasts great, but it is work to make.Time consuming, and make any main dish look simples to make, so I doubt I will bother again.Saying that my jar in the fridge is not showing any sighs of going mouldy yet.

Many thanks. I must try making this oil. Like Phil suggests, I doubt if oil 'goes off' even if kept for a long time. I expect the high temperatures involved with any subsequent use of the oil would kill any bacteria (even something as serious as Salmonella) and even if it tasted bad, I doubt if it would do you any harm, not that I'm an expert on health matters.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: PaulP on October 11, 2011, 10:41 AM
I don't want to sound all H&S or preachy but everybody should be aware of the botulism potential of storing garlic in oil. The botulism spores are only killed at temps of above approx 120 degrees C.

Secondly oil can and does go rancid over time. Just google rancid oil and garlic and botulisim.
Rancid oil is really bad for you.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Wickerman on October 22, 2011, 10:40 AM
   
Hello all.
I'm making CA's Madras this weekend and going by the book,so what better place to start than with the Spiced oil.
The only thing that's stopped me making it before has been  the lengthy 3hour cooking time...but had a bit of time on my hands this week so gave it a whirl.
Anyway,here's how it went:
(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/5149/spiceoil1.jpg)
Everything apart from the water.
(http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/302/spiceoil2.jpg)
All ready to simmer.(with lid)
(http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/9594/spiceoil3.jpg)
All done.
Had some wonderful smells wafting around the kitchen during cooking.
The oil is the exact colour of Lucozade,and tastes wonderful
(Spicy Onions .)
Will be pouring off 75mls for the madras and will atempt to freeze the rest.
I look forward to using it in the finished dish.
Many thanks Cory Ander.
PS .Will be making gravy base later today.
WM.

Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: curryhell on October 22, 2011, 01:11 PM
Nice report Wickerman.  CA will be impressed.  I look forward to reading subsequent reports on the gravy and the finished dish.
On the subject of spiced oil, i think this is very subjective.  Some people swear by it and some think it adds little compared to the time and effort involved in making it.  Unfortunately for us home BIR chefs we don't have a restaurant kitchen and cook the volume of dishes where it is in ample supply and a by product of the BIR process :( so hats off to CA for coming up with a method of "manufacturing" the stuff  ;D.  .  Personally for me, the jury is still out.  I can remember back in the 80's visiting a kitchen and my dishes were always prepared using the oil from the top of the gravy pot.  Kitchens visited in recent years, the oil seems to be fresh and untouched, usually sitting in an old ghee tin.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: bmouthboyo on November 16, 2011, 04:40 PM
Hi guys,

Can I ask has anyone tried CA spiced oil recipe without the water added? I would like to make it but bit put off with the faf or having to manually separate it. But worried would burn spices with just oil.

Thanks
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: PaulP on November 16, 2011, 05:38 PM
Hi guys,

Can I ask has anyone tried CA spiced oil recipe without the water added? I would like to make it but bit put off with the faf or having to manually separate it. But worried would burn spices with just oil.

Thanks

Hi BMB,

I haven't tried this recipe for spiced oil but have tried another one that didn't involve water. It contained similar ingredients to CA's recipe but with no tomato content, and no sugar.

When I cooked it I used an oil thermometer and was surprised the temperature never rose above 105 degrees C when the ingredients were gently bubbling away. Nothing was burned BTW.

So if you want to try this I would leave out the tomato and sugar, replace the water with extra oil and gently fry for about 1 hour. You won't need to filter it, just use a normal strainer. Any grits left over from the cooked spices will fall to the bottom of the pan.

Right now I'm not using spiced oil. The preparation is as bad as cooking a base (which you have to do as well) and I'm not convinced that it really improved my curries.  This may be because nobody has yet published a good recipe for BIR style spiced oil. In particular I was after the tangy, moorish, sweetness that I find in the leftover oil in my favourite TA dishes and the recipe I tried didn't deliver on that front.

Let us know how you get on if you try this.

Cheers,

Paul

Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: paul_faz on February 20, 2013, 02:28 PM
Cory. Brilliant, this really works.

I live in NE Thailand and so completely cut off:), I used cheap Thai Chilli oil as a base oil. I added a lot of dried Methi leaves (which I believe adds the Essence of BIR smell?) halved the water and the cooking time.  Strained the "mush" through a standard flour sieve and separated the oil from the bottom residue (which contains the "cracked" spice essence). For a curry (based on your base) I use the oil (usual amount) and then add a spoon of "residue" to finish, which adds sweetness and depth, it smells just great and a real taste of home. Thank you so much for a great idea.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: paul_faz on February 20, 2013, 04:17 PM
Sorry just reading back on previous posts.
 
The Chili oil i use is listed as 8% garlic, its peanut oil, i leave it outside in 30C plus for months on end - never a problem, I have used it for stir fry and Asian style cooking for 15 years now.  If you pre-"boil" Garlic in fresh oil the risk is nil, possibly depending on the type of oil, i think.

Rancid or overly used oil is an issue in Thailand and SE Asia in general, it saves money and adds that lived in taste, I am sure its the same in places like Bangladesh and India and THERE ARE health issues with this. I would assume that BIRs use it as a matter of course, its seems to me a natural progression, though any self respecting BIR would not admit that to its use due to the possibility of H&S breathing down their necks an issue if they are using "American" oils.

Reusing too many times lowers the smoke point, think of it as loosing its elasticity, which is why garlic etc. will not burn and a deep taste results because high temperatures are not reached and germs are not killed, especially in hot, humid climates, especially in Asia/BIRs where a quick stir fry is the Modus Operandi. It only became an issue with the availability of cheaper oils like Rapeseed, Canola, corn became available as a cheap alternative to the "bad" oils like Ghee, Peanut and Coconut.

Infused fresh oil used only once, followed by a hot re-fry will reach the temperatures required and not suffer from this "Hidden" issue.

Any doubts? Look up Botulism / 120C and then further research the smoke point of the oil you are using. I assume you are, like, stir frying your curries?

Always use PEANUT OIL!!!!!!! and not American inventions (Coconut oil if you like your Sri Lankan).

Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: sp on April 18, 2013, 07:56 PM
How about these?  I haven't tried either yet...

http://www.recipesource.com/side-dishes/oils/00/rec0009.html (http://www.recipesource.com/side-dishes/oils/00/rec0009.html)

http://www.recipesource.com/side-dishes/oils/00/rec0016.html (http://www.recipesource.com/side-dishes/oils/00/rec0016.html)
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: jrabata on December 06, 2013, 08:26 PM
I have been attempting to make spiced oil and decided to try making it as follows:

Ingredients:

- 500ml vegetable oil
- 400g onions (coarsely chopped)
- 1 tbsp garlic (pureed)
- 1 tsp ginger (pureed)
- 1 tbsp green capsicum (diced)
- 2 tbsp tomato paste
- 2 tbsp spice mix (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3765.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3765.0))
- 2 tbsp curry powder
- 1 brown cardamom
- 6 green cardamoms
- 2 inch stick of cassia bark
- 1 star anise
- 1 tsp panch phoran
- 1 clove
- 2 litres water
- 1 tbsp sugar

Method:

- Heat oil and gently fry onions for a few minutes until soft
- Add whole spices and gently fry for 2 minutes
- Add garlic, ginger and green capsicum and gently fry for 2 minutes
- Add tomato paste and powdered spices and gently fry for 2 minutes
- Add water and sugar and gently simmer (covered) for 3 hours
- Skim oil from the surface and filter through a colander to remove any solids
- Filter through several layers of muslin cloth to remove fine particles
- Store in a plastic bottle in the fridge

Results:

The resultant oil was orange/red colour, sweetish, and tasted and smelt pleasantly of onions and spices. 

Comments:

I have no idea if this looks or tastes like the oil that BIRs may use to cook their curries because I have never seen or tasted any, but it looks and tastes similar to the oil that is released from the BIR curries themselves.

I chose a method that resembles the preparation of a curry base except this was made for the sole purpose of making the spiced oil (I ditched the solids).  I am uncertain that removing lots of oil from a curry base is sensible since it is likely to diminish the spice flavours in the curry base.

I believe synthesising spiced oil has merits and would welcome any comments or suggestions on the best way to prepare it.

I haven't cooked with it yet and will provide an update when I have.

Here is a picture:

Hi,

In the recipe above what does curry powder actually mean?

According to the spice mix recipe (link) just before it the spice mix is also known as "curry powder". I'm a bit confused: shall I add 2 x 2 tbsp spice mix (probably not) or curry powder means something else?

Thanks in advance, J.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Naga on December 06, 2013, 09:05 PM
In this context, it just means generic curry powder. It forms such a small overall percentage of the whole that, whichever brand you use, it makes a marginal impact on the final product. Any curry powder from the appropriate aisle of larger supermarkets will do the trick.

On the other hand, if you really want to use spiced oil, add some extra oil to your base gravies, pre-cooked meats and curries and just skim it off. That will be far better than a synthesised spiced oil.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: George on December 06, 2013, 09:13 PM
On the other hand, if you really want to use spiced oil, add some extra oil to your base gravies, pre-cooked meats and curries and just skim it off. That will be far better than a synthesised spiced oil.

How are you so sure? Have you ever made CA's spiced oil and, if so, how did it compare to your approach?

Whilst I don't consider that many of CA's recipes are all they were cracked up to be, I actually think he may have been on to something with his hypothesis regarding synthesised spiced oil. In fact, that's a key reason why I signed up to his new website several months' ago - just to spy on what's going on and to download the odd recipe which might be worth trying. So far, any benefits have been very few and far between but it's fun to defeat his attempts to keep people like me, out!
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: 976bar on December 06, 2013, 09:34 PM
The best flavoured Spicy Oil I have ever produced is when I have added additional oil to a curry I am making and syphon it off before serving the curry. Typically when I am making Madras/Garlic, Chilli Masala/Vindaloo etc

I just pour it all into the same bottle. It gives a wonderful flavour to any dish :)
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Naga on December 06, 2013, 09:48 PM
How are you so sure? Have you ever made CA's spiced oil and, if so, how did it compare to your approach?

Tactful as ever, eh? If you were any sort of moderator, you would read members' posts and have your finger on the pulse.

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,11363.msg86962.html#msg86962 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,11363.msg86962.html#msg86962)

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,12547.msg101828.html#msg101828 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,12547.msg101828.html#msg101828)
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: curryhell on December 06, 2013, 09:53 PM
In fact, that's a key reason why I signed up to his new website several months' ago - just to spy on what's going on and to download the odd recipe which might be worth trying. So far, any benefits have been very few and far between but it's fun to defeat his attempts to keep people like me, out!

 ;D ;D ;D Like it George.  I jumped in with both feet just to see what sort of reception I got  ???  As you'd expect, being a bit critical of the great man himself, "or shall we call him Sir",  I wasn't made very welcome  and i got pruned in my prime  :o   ;D  But it's ok because i'm in stealth mode and undercover.  Haven't learnt a damn thing yet.  It's simply replication of what's gone on here several times already.  But it does serve the purpose of growing the site from perpetrator's point of view.  Surprising, how sickly sweet some of the posts are at times though, all very civil but so sycophantic from some individuals.  Now i'll just work out what you call yourself George.   I've a good idea already though  ::)
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: George on December 06, 2013, 10:12 PM
Tactful as ever, eh? If you were any sort of moderator, you would read members' posts and have your finger on the pulse.

What on earth has my post got to do with being a moderator? You bring shame on yourself and your family by making such a rude comment. I was of, of course, posting as a member.

curryhell - spot on - try re-registering and make just enough innocuous posts to avoid being auto pruned. And don't use a name anything like you use here. The main benefit of that site, as far as I can see has been to clear out a few members who I never rated on here, almost Pied Piper style.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Naga on December 06, 2013, 10:18 PM
...You bring shame on yourself and your family..

You forgot to include my friends and ancestors...
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Stephen Lindsay on December 07, 2013, 12:12 PM
ha ha I love the idea of George and CH going to the other site in stealth mode  :D
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Willyeckerslike on December 07, 2013, 12:43 PM
Me too, especially George in stealth (silent) mode is great.(he should use it more on here too).

It is comical really...

"We all hate CA, oh he has opened a website, I want to join!"

oh he banned me, I will join again, oh he banned me ( I will tell everyone on www dot curry-recipes dot co dot uk his website is an abomination web links are not allowed)...............google is my friend

hey I joined and I ain't banned yippee!

............

Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Stephen Lindsay on December 07, 2013, 12:46 PM
the silent assassin  :o
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Onions on June 13, 2014, 02:51 PM
In fact, that's a key reason why I signed up to his new website several months' ago - just to spy on what's going on and to download the odd recipe which might be worth trying. So far, any benefits have been very few and far between but it's fun to defeat his attempts to keep people like me, out!

 ;D ;D ;D Like it George.  I jumped in with both feet just to see what sort of reception I got  ???  As you'd expect, being a bit critical of the great man himself, "or shall we call him Sir",  I wasn't made very welcome  and i got pruned in my prime  :o   ;D  But it's ok because i'm in stealth mode and undercover.  Haven't learnt a damn thing yet.  It's simply replication of what's gone on here several times already.  But it does serve the purpose of growing the site from perpetrator's point of view.  Surprising, how sickly sweet some of the posts are at times though, all very civil but so sycophantic from some individuals.  Now i'll just work out what you call yourself George.   I've a good idea already though  ::)

The administration of that particular site is mildly cretinous.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Secret Santa on June 13, 2014, 03:27 PM
The administration of that particular site is mildly cretinous.

 :-X
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: littlechilie on September 06, 2014, 03:12 AM
After reading all the pages on this thread my head hurts :'( And the secret was never in the oil ??? Gutted.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Madrasandy on September 06, 2014, 07:28 AM
Haha lc your post made me read it, well speed read it, The last 2 pages have some good comments though   :)
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Onions on September 08, 2014, 11:10 AM
After reading all the pages on this thread my head hurts :'( And the secret was never in the oil ??? Gutted.

:D
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Curry Hotter on January 11, 2016, 05:47 PM
After reading all the pages on this thread my head hurts :'( And the secret was never in the oil ??? Gutted.

I know I'm replying to a post from 2014 and my head hurt too after reading the entire thread but I do think the secret is in the oil!

The missing taste / smell  is the same as that from poppadoms, which are simply fried in oil, which I'm guessing has some other spices added or perhaps has just picked up the flavours from whatever was previously fried in it (mostly onion bhajis?).
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: curryhell on January 11, 2016, 06:50 PM
I would suggest you read this thread and don't waste time chasing shadows.  The oil is but one SMALL contributor to the BIR flavour and smell - that's my opinion anyway  ;D

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,8533.msg75496.html#msg75496
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: london on January 11, 2016, 07:03 PM
I would suggest you read this thread and don't waste time chasing shadows.  The oil is but one SMALL contributor to the BIR flavour and smell - that's my opinion anyway  ;D

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,8533.msg75496.html#msg75496
I Agree I pre cooked some chicken at the weekend using CBM advanced method and used some of the left over oil to start a Dhansak which tasted the some as using fresh oil.

London.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Curry Hotter on January 11, 2016, 08:41 PM
I would suggest you read this thread and don't waste time chasing shadows.  The oil is but one SMALL contributor to the BIR flavour and smell - that's my opinion anyway  ;D

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,8533.msg75496.html#msg75496

Thanks but didn't get the relevance of that thread as it's talking more about making a large base rather than reusing oil. :?

I know there's a lot of variables but the key difference between my lamb bhuna and a decent restaurant bhuna seems to be that smokey sweet, almost dusty tasting oil which you get with every BIR dish.
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Ghoulie on February 27, 2017, 10:51 AM
Just a thought on 'spicy' oil.  About 4 years back, I used up some of my 50,000 scoville heat rated chillis to make 4 litres of chilli infused virgin olive oil.  I gave a litre of this to my neighbour - Pakistani - she rated it as very good in her cooking.

I note my daughter also uses garlic infused olive oil in her cooking.

Maybe there is a route to goal via using these types of oil?
Title: Re: How to Make Spicy Oil ? The Secret to Truly Replicating BIR curries?
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on February 27, 2017, 10:59 AM
I use both, although I use the (far cheaper) infused rapeseed oils than the over-priced (and less suited for cooking, because of its lower smoke point [1]) olive oil in both Chinese and Indian cuisine.

** Phil.
--------
[1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/food-and-drink/healthy-eating/everything-you-know-about-cooking-with-oil-is-wrong/