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British Indian Restaurant Recipes - Main Dishes => British Indian Restaurant Recipes - Main Dishes => Phall => Topic started by: pete on June 21, 2005, 10:04 PM

Title: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: pete on June 21, 2005, 10:04 PM
Vegetable Phall

Ingredients

2 ladies fingers chopped
1 tiny aubergine sliced lengthways

1 ladle of oil from top of curry gravy
4 green chillies chopped 1cm long
1 tablespoon finely chopped onions
1 tablespoon garlic ginger puree
? a tomato chopped
1 desertspoon fresh coriander
1 desertspoon cooked chick peas
1 desertspoon precooked mushrooms
2 desertspoons precooked veg (very dry mix)
1 desertspoon dried fenugreek
3 ladles curry gravy
1 desertspoon tomato puree
1 desertspoon spice mix (paprika,turmeric,coriander,cumin)
? dessertspoon chilli powder
? teaspoon ground coriander

All was cooked on a really large gas ring
It seemed to have an inner gas ring as well as an outer one.

He popped the aubergine and ladies finger into a deep pan fryer for five minutes
While this was cooking he heated the oil from the top of the curry gravy for a minute then added the chillies and onion.
He stir fried this for two minutes.
Although the gas was clearly packing out a lot of heat, nothing was ever in danger of burning.
Then he added the garlic ginger puree and stirred for another minute
He added a ladle of curry gravy and, because the oil was really hot, this evaporated off quite spectacularly.
Flames and splutters all round but not in the pan.
Then he added the tomato puree and stirred for about thirty seconds
Then (quite late on I thought) in went the spice mix and chilli powder
Stir for a minute then another ladle of curry gravy and evaporate off
Then in quick succession
The chick peas, mushroom, fresh tomato, precooked veg and fresh coriander
Stir for a couple of minutes and add the dried fenugreek, ground coriander and the last ladle of curry gravy.
Shake the pan add the deep fried ladies fingers and aubergine.
He then placed an upturned frying pan on top of the pan cooking and left it for a couple of minutes.
And it was ready.

If it sounds tricky this recipe, it?s not.
It?s just because he used such a variety of veg in it.
You could substitute the veg for precooked chicken and that would cut the recipe by half!


Interesting information:-

The curry gravy was really runny (see photo)
I got a sample and it?s very nice but it doesn?t have the taste
Neither did the curry (although it was really excellent)
I have had curries from this place and they have had the taste, so I guess it must just be a flavour of kitchen circumstances.
The rice is all micro waved
It has been precooked earlier
The poppadoms were being cooked and I couldn?t believe what I saw.
They use a 4 inch deep frying pan full of oil (nearly to the top) and cook them two at a time.
The man was stacking them and the pile was about 14 inches high.
That?s how flat he was cooking them.
Skill!
The tomato puree was really thick and stodgy
Almost as thick as pataks tandoori paste
It came from a can and he doesn?t water it
He said they make garlic ginger puree using equal volumes of each.
That's as runny as soup
He adds oil so it doesn?t turn BLUE!!
That?s what Curry King said too.
The curry gravy is also really runny.
That's like a soup too.
And finally he emphasised you must cook the curry till it is really hot to kill off the bacteria.
That is very important!



Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: pete on June 21, 2005, 10:05 PM
This is the curry!!
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: DARTHPHALL on June 21, 2005, 10:57 PM
It looks like there is a lot of Turmeric in there, does it stain everything it touches ( is good indicator of the said Spice ;D ;D).
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: Yellow Fingers on June 22, 2005, 12:28 AM
I got a sample and it’s very nice but it doesn’t have the taste
Neither did the curry (although it was really excellent)
I have had curries from this place and they have had the taste, so I guess it must just be a flavour of kitchen circumstances.

Pete, forgive me if I'm a bit stupid, but it's late and I'm a tad sozzled. Where did this demo come from..did I miss a thread?

And, you made the curry but it didn't have the taste, but when you eat there usually it does?

Doesn't this mean there is some 'secret' ingredient or technique they are hiding from you?

Quote
And finally he emphasised you must cook the curry till it is really hot to kill off the bacteria.

Now that makes sense. Leave the curry gravy around for a day, you need to cook it up.


Quote
The poppadoms were being cooked and I couldn’t believe what I saw.
They use a 4 inch deep frying pan full of oil (nearly to the top) and cook them two at a time.
The man was stacking them and the pile was about 14 inches high.

pretty standard for a busy currry house i would have thought?


if any of the foregoing caused offence, it was totally unintentional.
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: pete on June 22, 2005, 08:05 AM
Hi Yellow Fingers
This was a demo that I had last night in a takeaway.
For some reason the demo curry did not have the taste
Nor did the curry gravy
In fact, the finished result was very similar to the Bengali Cuisine lesson.
This implies to me, that whatever creates the taste, is made by a kitchen circumstance.
I still think it might be to do with the tandoor fumes (the tandoor was off)
I thought it would be of interest that I got a sample of the curry gravy
I actually saw it lifted from the pot
I have tasted it and know it's consistancy.
Before this, I believe there was an element of doubt over the authenticity of sampled curry gravy.
It is very oily, yellowy orange and sweet.
The taste is not very spicy but mainly of boiled "fried" onions.
It is like a soup.
Not thick at all.
So we definitely need to not use many spices in our bases and need extra water.
I was impressed with the poppadoms because he cooked them so flat.
Whenever I fry them they are anything but that!
You couldn't even stack three of mine


Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: Curry King on June 22, 2005, 09:24 AM
Hi Pete,

This is all very similar to what I was shown a while back, a simple not to heavy gravy and the method for cooking the phall is exactly the same as what I was shown for a vindaloo.? ?

This was a demo that I had last night in a takeaway.
For some reason the demo curry did not have the taste

I think this is interesting as when I watched a chef make it I stood right next to him, when he had finished it I tried it and thought mmm ok but no "taste".? ?A while later I tried it again and the "taste" was there, I think maybe this is the problem, i very rarely eat my currys after making them now and it makes a big difference.
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: George on June 22, 2005, 09:52 AM
I got a sample and it?s very nice but it doesn?t have the taste
Neither did the curry (although it was really excellent)
I have had curries from this place and they have had the taste, so I guess it must just be a flavour of kitchen circumstances."

Many thanks for writing-up and reporting this recipe. If your dish lacked the taste, just on this occasion, could it be that he left out secret ingredients because you were watching?
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: Mark J on June 22, 2005, 12:16 PM
I agree with CK, did you eat it soon after pete so were still 'spiced up'?
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: pete on June 22, 2005, 12:54 PM
I agree with CK, did you eat it soon after pete so were still 'spiced up'?
Yes I think you are right.
I'd been in the kitchen and came back with? a restaurant perfume.
I bet if I had left it a couple of hours the taste would have been in there.
It must be in some of the ones we all make, we just don't realise it
Ck has the right idea
Leave it a while before you eat your cooked meal

 
Quote
Many thanks for writing-up and reporting this recipe. If your dish lacked the taste, just on this occasion, could it be that he left out secret ingredients because you were watching?


No.
Honestly, I think there is nothing hidden
It's our tecnique that is at fault
The pan must be really very hot when the curry gravy goes in.
It must almost vaporise.
The curry gravy must also be really soupy for this to work.
If we don't get that right, then it won't happen
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: Mark J on June 22, 2005, 11:25 PM
I reckon if everyone religiously cooked their curries 24 hours before consuming them we would all be saying we can produce the taste
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: DARTHPHALL on June 23, 2005, 07:27 AM
Has anyone cooked a Curry & bought a Take-away on the same day ?
Would that not prove once & for all the not being able to discern the taste on the day of cooking theory,& any smells tastes you could notice would that not indicate different ingredients maybe ?
If i`ve got time i shall be doing this on Friday. ;)
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: pete on June 23, 2005, 12:53 PM
I have served a home cooked and reheated frozen takeaway together
I thought mine stood the comparison but  lacked that aroma
Boy, are we picky about this!
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: DARTHPHALL on June 23, 2005, 05:21 PM
Funny you should say that because mine lacked the aroma too, & if anything its the smell i can get right. :(
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: Mark J on June 23, 2005, 08:35 PM
I remember ages ago I had some spare gravy so I just whipped up a chicken madras to freeze, when I came to microwave it I couldnt believe my nostrils, it smelled like the strongest BIR smell
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: pete on June 23, 2005, 09:22 PM
That's brilliant!
That's what we want.
One more thing I recall from the demo was that the chef was really against the use of chilli powder.
He said repeatedly that it was bad for you.
He said green chillies are best and these are actually healthy.
I don't know if I believe that, but what he meant was, to get the heat into your curries use mainly fresh chilli.
I find the chilli powder does have a "powdery" taste, when using more than a teaspoon
You can't lose it.
I will be following the man's advice
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: Curry King on June 23, 2005, 09:22 PM
Im fairly sure this is a big part of getting the "taste", ive just cooked a chicken vindaloo and tasted it as I was cooking and there was no taste.? I always smell the spices as there cooking shove my face in the pan and im sure this is the problem, ive just tried it again after an hour or so and a couple of lagers it tastes spot on, with the "taste".

The "taste" is there and I think the "smell"? ;D? is part of the same thing if I go outside for a while and walk back in the restaurant "smell" hits u in the face.? Ive had friends come round before and say they can smell the curry as they are walking up the path and I always say its not that strong, probably as ive just been sniffing it at close range? 8)
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: Curry King on June 23, 2005, 09:30 PM
Quote
I don't know if I believe that, but what he meant was, to get the heat into your curries use mainly fresh chilli.
I find the chilli powder does have a "powdery" taste, when using more than a teaspoon

I'm not so sure about that Pete, I was told that to much heat is bad for you but theres no way fresh chili is used as the main heat source for a standard vindaloo or madras.? If the powdered spices are fried properly you shouldn't be able to sense the powder, if a curry is powdery then the chili has been put in after the gravy and lumps up.? I used to do this as I was afraid of burning the spices and its definitely wrong!

To make a vindaloo I put in 3 to 4? teaspoons of hot chili powder and I don't get any powder in the finished dish.
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: John on June 23, 2005, 11:54 PM
I went to me favorite takeaway last night, and tried to notice as much as i could about stuff,
Anyway what they used for a madras was about 1tsp of chilli powder, well they were using a cooks spoon and it looked about 1tsp, then when they added a pinch of fresh coriander they also added some chilli pickle (mr naga very hot) i don't know how much they used as they had there back to me but it was sufficient for the madras to taste perfect. when i got home i searched for mr naga and found the following picture, which is the same as used in my best takeaway. so im now on the hunt for this additive for me home variety.

Hey Darth, maybe this is the stuff you need to get the heat in your curries without the powdery taste.
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: pete on June 24, 2005, 08:09 AM
Well that's a quest for the weekend!
I will have a look for mr naga
I don't know that one
If the powdered spices are fried properly you shouldn't be able to sense the powder, if a curry is powdery then the chili has been put in after the gravy and lumps up.? I used to do this as I was afraid of burning the spices and its definitely wrong!
To make a vindaloo I put in 3 to 4? teaspoons of hot chili powder and I don't get any powder in the finished dish.

When I cook a hot curry the spices are only cooked about five minutes
If I put in a restaurant mix and chilli powder too, that could make about 2 desertspoons of spices.
It is a lot to be absorbed by the sauce
How long are you frying yours?
I would rather use chilli powder
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: Curry King on June 24, 2005, 08:56 AM
How long are you frying yours?
I would rather use chilli powder

I normaly fry my spices for about a minute, maybe a minute and a half, in the oil, garlic and tom puree, if theres not enough oil floating around the pan I add a tiny amount of base to keep it moving.  This is usualy on a low heat.  Also the chili powder I use is extra hot so you don't need as much as a standard chili powder, I would normaly put in 3, 4tsp tops plus a tsp of restaurant masala.  As I said before ive had powdery currys and im sure it was where I was adding powdered spice after the gravy so they didn't cook in very well.
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: blade1212 on June 24, 2005, 09:43 AM
I'm think most BIRs must use a liquid Chilli sauce to get the madras or vindallo. Very rarely do I get the powdery taste from  BIR that I do get if I add more than a tsp of chilli powder. This pickle sounds really interesting John. Must try that.

Has anyone ever tried Dave's Ultimate Insanity Sauce in a curry ? This stuff is bonkers and I suspect even the *hardest* curry eater would wimper with a tsp of this in a curry.

(http://www.chilefoundry.co.uk/images/ultimateinsanity_sm.jpg)

http://www.chilefoundry.co.uk
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: DARTHPHALL on June 24, 2005, 10:17 AM
I was told that Green Chilies were the best & one of the waiters said don't use Red ( anything !!) as it gives you bad Stomach, in his cooking at home he will not use any Chilie powder.
Yes the powdery taste can change the taste of a hot curry for the worse.
  I use loads of Green Birds Eye Chilies & puree them, this way you get plenty of heeeeet & Ive found that even 20 will not affect the taste of the Curry combined with 1 Desert spoon extra hot Chili powder( any more & its bloody awful, like scooping out the dustbag of your Vacuum Hoover & adding to your Curry  :P :P :'( ).
There are also very hot watery liquids ( Pure Cap is one ) that add a load of heat but no after taste, I'm more inclined to believe this is used in a BIR to get the heat than Chilies, as even when puree`d you see little pieces which are not prelevant in my local`s Curries. ;)
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: Curry King on June 24, 2005, 10:21 AM
I can taste fresh chili in a curry if its been pureed or chopped to mush as I do it myself now and again, Ive never had fresh chili in a BIR vindaloo or madras unless I asked for it.  Ive not tried a liquid chili sauce in a curry though so thats possible but I would assume that it tastes like fresh chili?
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: DARTHPHALL on June 24, 2005, 10:40 AM
No see my link( in links section ) the Pure Cap is just pure heat no taste ( although some are sauces & taste accordingly).
Curry King i agree with you, i`ve never tasted fresh Chilies in my local BIR dishes, but they get their Tindalloo
very hot ( especially the meat !!) which i think is marinaded & the heat from the meat then translates into the dish to add to the heat etc.. :)
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: Yellow Fingers on June 24, 2005, 12:52 PM
Quote
2 desertspoons precooked veg (very dry mix)

Pete, what was in this mix and how do you think it was prepared?
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: blade1212 on June 24, 2005, 06:49 PM
John, I just witnesed one of my local BIR (open plan) making a madras for me and they added what looks very much like this pickle stuff. Best way to describe it is rasperry jam looking (with lumps).

Gonna have to hunt this stuff down.

Interestingly, they used NO dry spices whatsoever - I'll post the recipe as I saw it.
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: pete on June 24, 2005, 07:26 PM
Quote
2 desertspoons precooked veg (very dry mix)

Pete, what was in this mix and how do you think it was prepared?

It was a dull yellow and dry.
Not oily or wet
A few bits of potato, cauliflower and cabbage.
Probably just boiled in water, turmeric and salt
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: pete on June 26, 2005, 09:30 AM
I tried to reproduce the demo I saw
I have noticed a difference in what they can do and what I can't.
I read that everytime you reheat oil, the temperature that it can achieve, drops.
They used oil from the top of the curry gravy
They managed to get it hot enough, so that when the curry gravy was added, it almost instantly evaporated.
I can do this with new oil but definitely not old.
This can only be because of their cookers.
That is where the only difference can lie.
We can make an exact base
We have the spice mixes, precooked methods and witnessed recipes.
We can't get any closer without different cookers

I have started adding a lttle roast garlic puree to my curries along with the precooked ingredients.
This works really well.
I get full bulbs of garlic and cook them in a little oil but covered with foil.
After an hour I squash each clove and save the pulp.
It loses it's original smell and goes very sweet
I used it , this time, with a mushroom bhajee

Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: Mark J on June 26, 2005, 10:17 AM
Do you skin the cloves pete?
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: pete on June 27, 2005, 08:04 AM
No.
The puree still comes out dead easy
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: Mark J on July 02, 2005, 12:12 PM
How do you extract the puree? Through a normal garlic press?
Title: Re: Vegetable Phall Demo
Post by: pete on July 02, 2005, 12:58 PM
Just squash each clove individually, you don't need a garlic crusher
Although, thinking about it, that might be a less messy way to do it!
The puree really improved the curry