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Beginners Guide => Trainee Chefs / Beginners Questions => Topic started by: Cory Ander on March 23, 2010, 02:37 AM

Title: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: Cory Ander on March 23, 2010, 02:37 AM
As we all know, there are various forms of tomatoes available:

- fresh
- tinned
- puree
- pasatta
- paste

In particular, when a recipe specifies "puree" or "paste" or "passata", what is the difference, what should be used and why?
Title: Re: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: chriswg on March 23, 2010, 07:22 AM
I'm not convinced Passata has any place in Indian cooking. It seems to have been developed more for the Italian market.

From some recent posts is seems the BIR's create their own tomato puree / paste. I think there is only one tomato based ingredient that is called either puree / concentrate / passata depending on the chef. The stuff the BIR's use is possibly not just out of a jar, but could well be created by simmering puree / concentrate in herbs or spices for a long time.

I do exactly the same when cooking up a batch of pizza sauce and the results taste lovely.
Title: Re: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: Curry Barking Mad on March 23, 2010, 10:15 AM
Of the several kitchens that I have filmed, photographed or just observed the chefs cooking in they have all used large tins of White Tower tomato paste, most have watered it down somewhat, there was one who didn't water it down at all,
Something like Sainsburys Tomato puree is the same thing in that its tomatoes and nothing else, double concentrated,

I have never seen anything resembling pasata in a BIR kitchen,

Here we go again....one man's paste is another's puree,
just as ....................one man's flour is another's powder.

Mick
Title: Re: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: chriswg on March 23, 2010, 11:36 AM
Hi Mick

Did you see them taking it out ofthe tub and into the curry? The kitchens I have seen usually have a plastic tub of puree which could mean it has been modified.
Title: Re: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: Malc. on March 23, 2010, 11:53 AM
By definition, I have always considered Paste to be a thicker drier version of a puree. Then followed by passata, the smooth blended version of tinned chopped tomatoes, without the seeds of course.

I would agree that Passata is not a likely contender to be found in a BIR Kitchen.

The tub of puree I was shown recently didn't resemble puree or paste which I would describe as having a grainy appearance. The 'puree' was more like a tomato sauce.

I know it had been prepared, whether this was with a puree to start with and then blended further with oil etc., I have no idea. Personally, I would describe it as a concentrated sauce as opposed a puree.

You say tomayto, I say tomarto. ;D

Title: Re: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: chriswg on March 23, 2010, 12:26 PM
Axe

Can you ask them about this on Thursday while the Bhajis are cooking? It could be another small piece of the jigsaw if it turns out the BIR's cook spices into their tomato puree.

Ta
Title: Re: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: Malc. on March 23, 2010, 12:32 PM
I will do my best Chris, I just hope its not to hectic.  :)
Title: Re: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: Curry Barking Mad on March 23, 2010, 12:49 PM
Hi Mick

Did you see them taking it out ofthe tub and into the curry? The kitchens I have seen usually have a plastic tub of puree which could mean it has been modified.

With the one chef who did not water it down, yes it went from tin to curry pan,
"The kitchens I have seen usually have a plastic tub of puree which could mean it has been modified"

Why didn't I think of that? ::) :)
I have always made it a point to taste the tomato paste(watered down) when it is in the tub/pot that it has been watered down in, I have been in kitchens when they are preparing for that evenings cooking and have seen it mixed with water, nothing added and then used in the curries,
I have not noticed anything different in the taste other than the tomato, I can only speak for the kitchens I have been in to.

Cheers,

Mick
Title: Re: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: Razor on March 23, 2010, 05:09 PM
Hi Guys,

To my mind, tomato paste and puree are one of the same thing, the difference being that some is labelled 'double concentrate' and some are not!

By definition, a puree is a solid, blended to form a liquid or semi solid.  To that end, passata could well be described as a puree. 

In Italy, passata is nothing more than blended and sieved tomatoes.  The version that you can purchase in the supermarkets, sometimes have extra herbs or spices in them.  To me, that makes them a Ragu, and yet they describe them as Passata!  Confusing or what? ???

I do think that passata can have a place in BIR cooking, especially in the base! 

I think that it is the KD base that calls for blended tomatoes (passata) not that the KD base is the benchmark ::)

Some bases ask for a tin of toms in it, so when you blend at the final stage, what ever toms are in there, effectively become passata!

Just to muddy the waters further, does tomato ketchup have a place in BIR ;D  don't the Indians call it 'Catsup'  ?

Ray
Title: Re: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: JerryM on March 23, 2010, 07:24 PM
Passata - not BIR for sure. i've used it for a while and thought it was an ingredient. i no longer buy it.

Paste - the double concentrate. the white tower does taste better than the supermarket brand but u can't tell the difference in the final dish. i went through a phase of watering but now add straight out the tin. the local TA does have a tray - the paste is not tampered with in any way (it's in the tray purely for ease of reaching it and getting his spoon at it. the only surprise is how little is used just the tip - based on this i use 1 tsp. since dropping the watering down i feel the curries taste better (i don't know why as i add base during spice frying which is effectively water). the only thing i can think of is that it sort of collects up the spice better.

Puree - is paste

Ketchup - no idea. i don't use for certain
Title: Re: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: Malc. on March 25, 2010, 04:23 PM
I managed to quiz the chef about the puree he has stored in an ice cream tub. It starts out from a tin of White Tower as has been identified. But from that point, they do the following.:

Firstly, they add a good quantity of oil to a pan and fry off sliced garlic until starting to brown. They then add the tomato paste and and stir through the oil. It wasn't made clear how long for i'm afraid. Afterwhich they then add water to bulk it out and dilute the paste to a puree.

This will explain why I saw a deep rich red oil gathering on the sides and why the puree seemed more like a sauce. When lifted with a teaspoon you could clearly identify as a puree rather than a sauce as it had that typically grainy appearance within.

I am to return for more demo's and this will be part of the many questions I ask.

I am now aware that the tomato puree is another pre-processed part of many others that combine to make the BIR menu.

My conversations with the chef have been a real eye opener. It is clear to me, or at least in his kitchen, that each type of dish should appear to be different from another. He does not substitute quality for quantity or ease of application.

In the fridge sat many pre-processed parts. Pre-cooked Chicken, Potato, Mushrooms, etc. and a host of other components all treated in more than one way. Interestingly, most of the vegetables were pre-cooked using Panch Puran, particularly the potatoes.
Title: Re: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: JerryM on March 25, 2010, 07:06 PM
Axe,

i really gel with the idea of the sliced garlic tomato paste - i just love the taste the fried  sliced garlic brings.

must admit i'm surprised that they add this flavour effectively to all dishes.
Title: Re: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: Malc. on March 25, 2010, 07:51 PM
Jerry, its all new to me i'm afraid. Until arriving here, I had no idea what might go on behind 'that' door.

They only use the tomato puree in dishes that require it of course, not all dishes.  ;)
Title: Re: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: JerryM on March 26, 2010, 04:02 PM
I had no idea what might go on behind 'that' door.

i've only had slight success with my local TA but even that amazed me as to how much goes into it.

for info my local TA only use puree out of the tin. they do use the fried garlic slithers quite a lot though mainly adding on top cold to the finished dish.

their base has no tomato in either.
Title: Re: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: bobpilot99 on April 18, 2010, 08:48 AM
Maybe not a major breakthrough  but at last I have found a tomato puree that looks right taste right it also has the right consistency for the job ( AYAM BRAND Tomato Puree)  ;)
Title: Re: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: Secret Santa on April 18, 2010, 06:36 PM
I have found a tomato puree that looks right taste right it also has the right consistency for the job

How are you judging that bob? Within reason I don't think that the brand of tomato puree makes all that much difference to the final dish.
Title: Re: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: solarsplace on June 16, 2010, 11:58 AM
Hi

Coming from a point where the curries I had been making were consistently coming out as expected, one day something changed! The dishes had now taken on an unexpected flavor and aroma, they had turned overnight remarkably peculiar and very disappointing!

What had changed? nothing as far as I know? - I must be burning the spices - what else could be causing this aroma? not fully burnt but maybe heading toward a singe perhaps?

Then proceeds to consistently cook disappointing curries for a while.... while trying to work out WTF has happened?

Turned out to be a different make of tomato puree - not sure where it came from, nothing particularly special about it ' Trattoria Verdi' double concentrate tomato puree. Anyway, its blooming nasty when used in curry!

Since then, been trying different brands of tomato pure to see what is what...

My favorite so far comes from the local co-op, their own brand double concentrate puree imparts a lovely flavor, Sanos normal and So-organic and Tescos own seem OK, but IMO they steer the flavor away from BIR and head somewhere toward a bolognese!

Like others have suggested, I too was of the opinion that all tomato puree was pretty much the same and would have little influence on the final dish!. However I am convinced that this is not the case and that the puree has a rather significant effect.

Will endeavor to get hold of some White Tower tomato puree and see how that turns out!

Just thought I would make this post just to share a personal observation and perhaps others may like to experiment with this as it is easy just to try!
Title: Re: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: Secret Santa on June 16, 2010, 03:33 PM
Hi solarsplace

I had a similar problem a while back where every base I made turned out bitter. After some discussion here I put this down to the brand of canned tomatoes I had been using, although I'm still not sure.

As far as the puree goes though, I still reckon that most of them do the job with no real difference to the final result, well, at least in my experience anyway.
Title: Re: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: Razor on June 16, 2010, 05:10 PM
Hi Solarspace,

Quote
Trattoria Verdi'

Is this the brand name or the description?

Verdi being Italian for green, would suggest some kind of greenery in it, such as spinach or maybe basil? IF, it is the description that is.

I don't think that spinach would be a problem (sag) but basil would be a bit odd in Indian cuisine.

Ray :)
Title: Re: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: Malc. on June 17, 2010, 10:34 AM
It's one of Tesco's 'discount brands', I think it's a case of you get what you pay for.
Title: Re: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: CurryOnRegardless on June 17, 2010, 12:24 PM
Hi Solarspace,

Quote
Trattoria Verdi'

Is this the brand name or the description?

Verdi being Italian for green,



Ray :)

Hold on, the Italian for green is actually VERDE (with an 'e'), VERDI (with an 'I') was the opera composer who composed, amongst others, the opera 'La Traviata' which means the Fallen Woman, I wasn't aware he had written any operas about cheap cafes (Trattoria). Tesco obviously know better!

LOFL
CoR

 
Title: Re: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: Razor on June 17, 2010, 05:04 PM
Correct, Verde is Italian for green and NOT Verdi, albeit the pronunciation is the same.  It is therefor a supermarkets effort to come up with an enticing brand name such as "Green Cafe" to boost sales of their value products.

Ray :)
Title: Re: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: solarsplace on June 18, 2010, 09:39 AM
Hi

Thank you for your indulgencies regarding the puree problem! - I did not mean to hijack the thread with it!

Anyway, the stuff is 'Trattoria Verdi' - Tomato Puree - Discount brands, produced in Italy for Tesco.

No mention of any other ingredients such as Basil, nothing at all to indicate that it is not pure.

However I recommend that you do not, in a moment of - Oh, panic no puree - oh - that will do - buy any for your curries. It is nasty in curries.

Thanks
Title: Re: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: CurryOnRegardless on June 19, 2010, 03:38 PM
FWIW, I find all tomato puree-in-a-tube stuff tastes pretty nasty, dunno why maybe it collects round the nozzle and goes rancid or something, better to use the tinned puree (not Tesco cheapo though!).

Cheers
CoR
Title: Re: What is the differences between tomato "paste", "puree" and "passata"?
Post by: chonk on November 27, 2017, 10:52 PM
Sorry to bring this one up again, many similiar threads already about it and quite some controversial opinions floating around here. Have to add mine too  ;D

I'm not convinced Passata has any place in Indian cooking.

Why though?! Taste-wise, it doesn't get any better imho. Quite the contrary:

I personally believe that in general, using tomasto paste+water instead of puree or Passata or blended canned tomatoes (like Roma) or puree/Passata+blended canned tomatoes compromises on taste. I believe this to be obvious. It's not the same and definitely doesn't taste the same. Try cherry tomatoes for sweeter sauces, It also definitely makes a big difference to look out for puree or Passata without the additives like a few users already mentioned.

Cheers!