Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: Yellow Fingers on November 22, 2005, 07:53 AM
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My god but it's a thin tome and the B&W pics are naff. The kushi spice mix is much more complicated than what we have been using. I'll get down to reading it properly now.
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There are a few B&W pics but on the whole it looks like a very good book, it seems to have all the recipes so i think its just a case of experimenting now to see how good they realy are.
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For those who are deciding whether to buy the book here's some points.
The base sauce is very similar to the Bruce Edwards' sauce but with more whole spices. The spice mix is again like Bruce Edwards but with garlic/ginger powder and methi.
The making of the base is exactly like Kris Dhillon, in that a separate spiced tomato tarka is cooked and added to the onion sauce. Infact the whole process is very KD like, just spiced up a bit more.
There is no mention of reusing oil at any stage, but I'm not surprised by that.
Their madras recipe is very basic and I think this will come out pretty good. However they say to make a vindaloo just add an extra tsp of chilli powder and for a phall add 2 tsp of chilli. Yeah right. I always judge a restaurant by the difference in their madras and vindaloo. If the only difference is a tsp of chilli they don't get my custom again.
Here's a quote about the phall, "Normally the phall is reserved only for those occasions when someone tries to show off by eating the hottest curry on the menu. I really don't recommend it."
So who am I showing off to when I order a takeaway phall and eat it on my own at home Mr Haydor? Way to alienate your phall loving readers you pillock. You say you "really don't recommend it", well as your phall recipe is a basic curry with two extra teaspoons of chilli, neither do I.
The korma is made with a separate korma base which looks interesting. The problem is you've then got a base sauce which you can only use for making one curry. I'd have liked to have seen a couple of other curries using this base, a pasanda for example.
They add pineapple to the dhansak, which is sacrilege to me, but I suppose that's down to personal preference.
The masala sauce for the tikka masala looks suitably complicated and the tomato base needs constant stirring for an hour! From the ingredients I expect this to turn out pretty good.
There's no jalfrezi, damn it, but I see they're putting that one on their website.
The quality of the pictures, especially the B&W ones, is pretty bad. I add that just for info though as I know at the price of the book you can't expect much better.
Do note that the recipes in this book will make standard curries like you will find in any high street curry house. The only nod to them being 'balti' would be if you served them in a balti dish.
All in all not much new to the regulars here, but I wish I'd had this book when I started out, it's definitely the best beginners' book around ( you hear that Pat Chapman!). Without having made any of the recipes yet I think it's definitely worth the money.
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Great review YF.
I agree totally on the Phall comments, i like you, order my Phall, Vindalloo or Tindalloo & take it home & eat it with my wife "eating hot Curries is not an ego trip".
There is great enjoyment in eating them, the heat itself is a taste as it were, & i love it loads so there !!
Also YF i agree on your comment on the difference between a Madras & the other hotter Curries, My fave local Take-away makes the Madras very different from their hotter Fayre which in my humble opinion shows the amount of effort put in by your local BIR.
My hopes weren't high, as so many books profess to give you the secret to cooking BIR food at home. "Another one bites the Curry dust"!
DARTH............. :)
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Got mine too, also agree on the madras. To my mind madras is distinguihed with lemon juice and more tomatoe puree/pasata, vindaloo should be a different kettle of fish
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Havn't received my copy yet in the colonies...but based on the reviews thusfar I am prepared to give the book it's just reward... six feet under ! Shall try some of the recipes...but considering some of the current threads don't hold too much hope . Had hoped for Curry Valhala...apparently got Tele-tubbies ! :(
CC
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I think it's excellent, and wish it had been my first curry book
The methods for pre cooking veg make it worth the money
I have often wondered if there was more to the pre cooking bit, than I knew.
He uses black cardamoms as part of it!
What about the use of mace in the curry base too?
Mace (I think) is the outer skin of nutmeg
It's certainly not been mentioned on this site before
Maybe that's a missing flavour
Perhaps the madras, vindaloo and phall "difference by chilli powder" is wrong
but that's all Kris Dhillon does too.
I reckon that a lot of curry houses do this, even if your local doesn't.
I really enjoy a phall
For me,to be a phall, it must be very hot with the "taste"
About a minute into eating it, you are sweating with your eyes and nose running.
Better than snuff?
And of course there is the "result" next day (which could be inconvenient and painfull)
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Intersting that lots of the recipes contain mustard oil. Perhaps it is used even though marked 'not for human consumption'.
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The methods for pre cooking veg make it worth the money
I have often wondered if there was more to the pre cooking bit, than I knew.
Yes, I agree, it is very useful. What is interesting is that the sauce that the meat is pre-cooked in is used in the curries too and not thrown away. I know many of us here have been doing this anyway, but it's good to see the method in print.
Mace...Maybe that's a missing flavour
It is unusual, but I doubt it's the missing taste. Before I learned the way restaurants cooked, I tried every recipe I could find to try to achieve the taste and smell of bought curries. A lot of those recipes required mace and I never did feel that they were even close to restaurant style. However maybe it in combination with the other whole spices in the base might make the difference. Who's going to be first to actually make a recipe so that we can find out?
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Hi stephen
I have no doubt that the restaurants still use mustard oil, but probably only in tandoori marinade. Either way, there's no way I'm using it at home.
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I think it's excellent, and wish it had been my first curry book
The methods for pre cooking veg make it worth the money
With the greatest respect, how do you know it's excellent before you've tried several recipes, assuming you haven't got that far yet. I would have said Pat Chapman's books LOOKED excellent when I saw the printed word. That's why I bought one. Only one thing counts! Do the recipes work? In Pat Chapman's case - NO!
Regards
George
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It's a good point you make George, but I think in the context in which Pete meant it, he is right. It would have saved me a great deal of experiment and frustration, 20 odd years' worth infact, if this had been the first book I had picked up when embarking on this crazy curry crusade!
I don't know if you have purchased it yet, but I think you'd agree, when we have perused as many curry recipes as most of the regulars here have, you get a feel for which recipes will give good results and which will not.
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I don't know if you have purchased it yet, but I think you'd agree, when we have perused as many curry recipes as most of the regulars here have, you get a feel for which recipes will give good results and which will not.
YF
Good point. I agree one can normally see 'potential' in recipes, and I expect that's what Pete meant, but I made a mistake in thinking that about Pat Chapman's recipes.
I don't doubt (I hope) that this book is a very worthwhile addition to the BIR section of our book collections. I haven't ordered one yet. I guess a key question is how good the 'Kushi Bali' restaurant really is. Would people around there view it as way above average, one of their favourites, one of the best? Didn't blondie go there? If the restaurant is good, and the book is honest, and the recipes carefully scaled down and tested, then the book must have great potential.
Regards
George
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Hi All,
Well, even if this book doesn't produce the answers for us it has certainly set a debate off and I am sure has inspired many into the pursuit once again.
To me it does give us a few new ideas to play with. Mace for instance is used in many recipes in the "Bombay Brassierie Cook Book" ,Garam Masala for instance. However, isn't a common spice on the shelves at the Asian supermarkets which leads me to believe not widely used by the BIR chefs.
I do agree with Pete in that the recipes are nearer ( or look nearer ) to authenticity than most we see and can understand why he says this book should have been around 20 years ago but I also heartily agree with George how dissapointing Pat Chapmans recipes were even though the books looked the part.
It is interesting that a sort of "Bouquet Garni" of spices is added to muslin then cooked in the base as is the case with certain bases in the "100 Best Balti Book", so puts this book closer to the real thing than most as well.
I believe Blondie rates these recipes fairly highly as he has tried some out. We need to get cracking and at least give this publication a fair crack rather than condem it to the bin before an Onion has been sliced.
As for the Vindaloo. Phall debate do we know actually what difference there should be in taste between these anyway?
I can stand a Vindaloo and know there is a distinct difference in taste in this to a Madras. However, I am not a fan of the Phall but was always led to believe that this step up in strength was only due to increase of Chilie powder alone and not taste as such.
I would be interested to hear from the Phall lovers what differences in taste they are expecting from the book rather than just added amounts of chilie?
The book doesn't have the Jalfrezi which I like but never mind I can live without it.
I shall get cracking soon to see what results can be achieved. If it gives us anything near the curries we are already producing it can't be a bad thing and worth the money we paid.
Ray G
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I must admit, I'm underwhelmed at the recipes in this book. Gut instinct tells me there isn't anyting new. However, I'll reserve final judgment until I try it out - probably worth the money even if it doesn't produce the taste.
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I am a bit concerned about the amount of spices (cinnamon etc) that go into the bag for the amount of base you yield, using those amounts if you made any quantity of it you would need a pillow case to put them in !!!
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The balti places ive been to in Birmingham create a different type to the balti you will get in an indian restaurant, I think the point of the book is, to teach you how this chef at this particular restaurant makes his curries. There probably won?t be much new you don?t know already in one form or the other, as this site has pretty much nailed down the BIR curry.
I?m sure it will be worth "what it says it is", but "what it is" might necessarily be what you want.
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Yes, I agree, it is very useful. What is interesting is that the sauce that the meat is pre-cooked in is used in the curries too and not thrown away. I know many of us here have been doing this anyway, but it's good to see the method in print.
Same as in the 100 baltis book and also in dave smiths pre cook method in my cracked it post, indeed good to see this used in print again
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With the greatest respect, how do you know it's excellent before you've tried several recipes, assuming you haven't got that far yet. I would have said Pat Chapman's books LOOKED excellent when I saw the printed word. That's why I bought one. Only one thing counts! Do the recipes work? In Pat Chapman's case - NO!
Regards
George
Hi George
I consider it excellent because it summarises 90% of what I have seen in restaurant kitchens already.
If you look at the Rhogan Josh recipe, it is made in two parts like I was shown at Bengal Cuisine.
The base sauce browns the garlic ginger, as the curry base I posted on in2curry (which was copied to here)
The base sauce contains carrot and pepper
Can you remember how controversial the idea of "carrot" was
Have you noticed the newspaper on top of the cooker, too (this was reported by us)
The whole thing just has an authenticity about it
It really is written with a proper restaurant chef
Perhaps the spices might need a tweak to be like your local, and I am a little concerned with Garam Masala in the mix.
Maybe you prefer to use prefried onions & peppers or old oil, but this is the first genuine curry house book I have seen.
I hope he writes a sequel covering more dishes
I would buy it without hesitation.
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Maybe you prefer to use prefried onions & peppers or old oil, but this is the first genuine curry house book I have seen.
Actually this is what, at least originally, was supposed to differentiate a balti from your run of the mill curry. The original balti idea was that everything was cooked fresh, so no pre-cooked peppers, onions etc. and no re-using of oil. This is definitely the format followed in this book. You'll see that where we would normally use tomato puree for example, he uses chopped fresh tomatoes. There's no pre-fried onions anywhere, it's all finely chopped raw, cooked quickly at the start of the curries.
He tends to use, at most, a couple of TBSP of fresh oil for the curry cooking. This normally gives a different texture to the finished balti style curry, which should retain more of the ingredients texture and not turn out totally smooth like a standard curry.
If you follow the book recipes but want the end result to be more like standard curry house fare, you have to take all of this into account.
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Hi YF
Yes you are right
Fresh is the word
This chap has been cooking since the 70's
So he must know the whole business inside out
He could easily write another book on ordinairy curry houses
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He could easily write another book on ordinairy curry houses
Wouldn't that be nice.? :)
Maybe next Christmas?
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This chap has been cooking since the 70's
So he must know the whole business inside out
He could easily write another book on ordinairy curry houses
Pete
I'm sure you're right. I hope the chef doesn't come in for too much stick here or anywhere else after he's been good enough to let the book buyers into many/most/almost all of his secrets. From what you say, I'm sure it's sincere and it's unlikely to make him rich. More like a public service. After what you say, I'm now more likely to purchase the book, even before anyone here has tried any of the recipes.
A few weeks ago, I e-mailed them on the question of whether the book covered standard curry house fare (which it appears to) and, moreover, whether there was a different angle of flavour, given it's a balti house. There was an initial reply from Andy and a promise of more info once he'd spoken to the chef, but I never heard any more.
Regards
George
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And don't forget folks the Kushi website has a help and support section where it claims queries will be answered.
Hopefully some of the additional questions thrown up on this site might get resolved if they are directed to the Kushi site??
May be worth a try! My first question to them is to give me a recipe for Jalfrezi which isn't in the book.
Ray
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And don't forget folks the Kushi website has a help and support section where it claims queries will be answered.
That's where my question was sent. It was never answered.
Regards
George
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I tried every recipe I could find to try to achieve the taste and smell of bought curries.
I followed the "cracked it" post by Mark J
When I made a curry, using the excess oil from the dave smith's base, it smelt exactly like a bhunna curry I bought to compare.
Not similar, but exact
The aroma comes from the old oil and spice mix
I used ordinairy veg oil, I've not tried ground nut oil yet
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Sorry if this is asking the obvious but in not resusing oil does that you mean you guys are expecting these dishes not to have the taste? Presumably the restaurant dishes do so that leads to the question of how they achieve it?
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Well i have sent them the question below...
Hi,
I have now received my copy of the book and have a question in a few of the recipes you make reference to "curry powder" and "garam masala" which brands do you use or do you make/mix your own ??
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hi slimboyfat
You could also have asked about the ground black cardamom and ground green cardamom in the masala recipe. Do they mean seeds or the whole thing? I dunno!
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I followed the "cracked it" post by Mark J
Pete, I've been doing this well before MarkJ posted his results, but it didn't produce the smell or taste for me so I never posted on it.
Most recently I made a KD base, made several curries and added the oil scooped off them into my spice oil pot. Each time I made a curry I reused this oil. When I got down to about 1 portions worth of base left I made a Bruce Edwards base using the oil from my spiced oil pot. When cooked, I added this to the portion of KD base I had left. This then became my new base and the oil scooped of this combination my new spiced oil. It smells and tastes nice, but it is nowhere near the overpowering smell I am used to from restaurant curries.
I just don't know where I'm going wrong. It's very frustrating.
I'm seriously beginning to believe that we may be after a different smell and perhaps taste?
Just as an example, if I have a curry from a curry house and leave the plate with some of the oil on it overnight, the next day you just have to have a sniff, not too close to the plate, and the smell immediately hits you. With my curries there is a distinct curry smell doing the same test, but it isn't the same smell, and I have to really get my nose close to the plate to smell it.
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And don't forget folks the Kushi website has a help and support section where it claims queries will be answered.
That's where my question? was sent. It was never answered.
Regards
George
Hi George,
I e-mailed the book info line this morning and got an answer back in less than 30 minutes. My question was
" Can you let me know how to cook a Jalfrezi as I am dissapointed it is not in the book". The answer came back
"Many thanks for your message.
If you look at the website www.baltibook.co.uk and click on the "more recipes" section, you'll see that the first extra recipe will be for Jalfrezi - which is a happy coincidence!? It'll appear sometime in the next week or so.
We hope you enjoy the book,
Kind regards,
Mohammed Ali Haydor and Andy Holmes"
Hopefully, the more input we give them perhaps the more output we will get back. They are obviously enthusiastic about their book at the moment so if we give them plenty of feedback, questions, etc they may show a similar enthusiasm with their customer support.
Regards
Ray
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I have now received my copy of the book and have a question in a few of the recipes you make reference to "curry powder" and "garam masala" which brands do you use or do you make/mix your own ??
Oh dear, this could be a serious blow for the book, if your statement is correct. How many of their recipes does it apply to? With Indian cooking, I reckon it's the oldest trick in the book to go no further than specifying 'curry powder' or 'garam masala'. It's essential to know exactly what goes in to these mixes for a recipe to be worth anything. We could experiment by using mixes already specified at the forum but it will be very disappointing if they don't specify exactly what is used at the Kushi Balti restaurant.
Regards
George
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Chances are its just of the shelf packet stuff unless he makes his own in which case the amounts should be there. If its not clear either way then lets email him and ask.
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Just to be clear they do specify the ingredients that go into their kushi spice mix, just that one of them is curry powder
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Two of the ingredients are curry powder and garam marsala he does give you the components of the Kushi spice mix but not the rest
No reply as yet but I got the following automated reply from them for the question
Many thanks for your message.
Because of the huge popularity of our new book "Authentic Balti Curry : Restaurant Recipes Revealed", we are receiving a great number of messages and queries from across the world.? Unfortunately, this means that we are unable to respond to them all.? We will choose the best of the messages and respond to them on the website in due course.
Many thanks for your interest in "Authentic Balti Curry : Restaurant Recipes Revealed". :-\
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My only slight disapointment with this book is that it is light on main dish recipes, all it has is: Balti, Dopiaza, Dhansak, Bhuna, Pathia, Rogan Josh, Korma, Tikka Masala and Shaslik
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Don't forget madras!
And to be fair to them, they have three more recipes pending on their web site. I think this just add value to the book.
I just wish he had made more use of that korma base.
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Hmm yes I seem to have left our their add 1 TSP for madras recipe ;D
Indeed the saving grace will be if they add more recipes to the website, which at the moment is looking promising
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Hmm yes I seem to have left our their add 1 TSP for madras recipe? ;D
Hehe! I knew that would get you going.? ?:D
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I hope they make a sucess of the book as there might be a healthier version on the way, apparently they make healthier baltis at their restaurant, that would be another avenue to explore
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Indeed, Im not knocking the book, its great, Ive just given it a glowing review on amazon.
It may not generate the taste (not that any book would really) but its got recipes from a BIR chef, what more could you ask for
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I've tried some of the recipes
I froze myself to death yesterday, getting mace for the base
I made the base
On it's own it's ok
I like the method it's cooked, so you add a spiced water, to the onion mix.
You end up with the right runny consistancy
But, hand on my heart, I don't think it's a patch on Kris Dhillon's.
Too many aromatic spices
If you have a spoon of KD's base, there is something familiar and restaurant about it.
But this is like a spiced stew
So I carried on and did the precooked veg
That was a major success
The best I have ever done
Excellent method
I will do this again
But salty!!
You don't need any salt in the finished curry
I made a veg balti madras
I was so dissapointed
Maybe it's the spice mix, maybe the base
Who knows?
I was so excited, but this was an absolute stinker
Even an amateur would be ashamed
Nothing like anything I have ever had
If I found somewhere that sold this, I would never go back
I tried the red "Masala" to go with CTM
I had everything except the pomegranite seeds
This would be excellent but for the "kewra" water
On it's own kewra water tastes like you are sucking a joss stick
When you reduce te sauce down, this smell dominates
I don't recognise it
There is a red sauce added to CTM, perhaps a version of this is used.
But what I saw
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=538.0
was a much runnier mixture than this turns out.
The chef told me that it did have coconut powder and sugar in it.
The Kushi version is almost like jam
Very nice, except for the Kewra bouquet
I am overall saddened by today
I haven't made a curry that was anywhere as good as stuff we do here
Any one else tried?
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That's disappointing news. I might try the KD base with the Kushi final spice mix tonight. That's about the only thing in this book that looks half decent.
I'm making Chicken Tikka and was going to use the Kushi method but have you seen the quantity of powdered spices that goes into the marinade. I can guarantee this recipe would be rank.
Chas posted a good recipe for Tikka recently, but I'll try the "Balti Kitchen Video" version tonight for a change.
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Hi Pete
I really thought the madras would turn out quite good just because of its simplicity, it's discouraging to hear that it was a pig! I think the spice mix is reasonably close to the Bruce Edwards one, so I suspect it's the base that's the problem.
When I first got the book, the first thing I looked at was the base sauce recipe and it immediately reminded me of recipes I had used in the early days, which were more authentic Indian, because I didn't know any better at the time. There is always a preponderance of whole spices.
Looks like it's back to the drawing board then, but I will still try it once I've got through my current batch of base.
Oh BTW, did you cook it as per the book, or did you employ the techniques we have developed on this site, high heat, reused oil, that sort of thing?
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Hi YF
I did it exactly as the book
Using our methods ,on this site, we can still use a lot of the info, in the book
I think you're right
The trouble was in the base
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I will do the rogan josh tonight, but will only use the final dish recipe. I will use spiced oil, base and precook chicken from my cracked it thread (and if anyone hasnt tried the recipes in that thread I strongly suggest you do)
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Hi All,
I have just finished the base myself and must say it is fairly aromatic. I travelled 20 miles to get the Mace which on the face of it is only a small part of the spicing used. On it's own it is a pretty pungeant spice isn't it!
I have had three replies from the Kushi "help line" so far so at least they seem keen to help. I thought the base smelled and tasted nice, and reminicent of one or two I have made before "100 Best Balti's" perhaps. It does seem to me to have a predominant "cinnamon" taste so maybe I put in a bit much.
I think it has some potential so it may well be spoilt by the addition of the spice mix? I can't give my findings yet as I am not making a curry from it until tomorrow so will report again then.
I have not made KD's base for some time so it may be the time to give it a try again for a comparison.
Ray
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Made the rogan josh using the different base and pre cook method as i said, I used the kushi spice mix and followed the recipe exactly apart from the base and pre cook.
I thought the end result was ok but not spectacular, this maybe because in one of the stages I under did the onions, they were a bit crunchy
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This would be excellent but for the "kewra" water
I was very suprised to see this, cant say Ive seen too much kewra water in the BIR kitchens Ive been in ;D
Pete, for the main dishes dig you start with veg oil or spiced oil?
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I have just finished the base myself and must say it is fairly aromatic. I travelled 20 miles to get the Mace which on the face of it is only a small part of the spicing used. On it's own it is a pretty pungeant spice isn't it!
Ray
Twenty miles!
That's dedication
How far is it to your nearest BIR?
I went out Friday night to get my Mace
It was freezing and I was on my push bike
Very few places seem to sell Mace
Including Asian supermarkets
Do you know why?
It's because restaurants don't use it
Well maybe one, in the entire UK
I weighed all ingredients (for the base) and it tastes like a spicy soup/stew
I am sure this is a genuine book by a genuine chef
There is a lot of usefull information in it too
But you are never going to make anything like a BIR using this base
You might as well use a can of Baxters Country vegetable soup, then add a teaspoon of curry powder.
Sorry George, you were right.
Pete, for the main dishes did you start with veg oil or spiced oil?
I used ordinairy fresh veg oil
I actually threw the finished curry away
It was that rubbish
The aroma is horrid
All this brown the garlic then brown the onions is totally over the top too.
The whole thing runs too close to being burnt
Not much fresh about that
I think the onions should be cooked for far less
The author cannot cook as this book describes
I don't believe it
I had a bought veg Balti only a week back, and it was absolutely delicious
It was full of extra tomato & onion and it also had the "taste"
I will use spiced oil, and base from my cracked it thread (and if anyone hasnt tried the recipes in that thread I strongly suggest you do)
These methods are brilliant
Thanks Mark
Hey, what's happened to Blondie?
No posts so far on this
He tried a few of these recipes before publishing, didn't he?
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I am sure this is a genuine book by a genuine chef
There is a lot of usefull information in it too
But you are never going to make anything like a BIR using this base
You might as well use a can of Baxters Country vegetable soup, then add a teaspoon of curry powder.
Sorry George, you were right.
The author cannot cook as this book describes
I don't believe it
I had a bought veg Balti only a week back, and it was absolutely delicious
It was full of extra tomato & onion and it also had the "taste"
Hey, what's happened to Blondie?
No posts so far on this
He tried a few of these recipes before publishing, didn't he?
I'm sorry if my, and some others, scepticism proved correct but I hope there are sufficient nuggets of useful information, tips and tricks in the Balti Book to add to the huge knowledge base which we have already. I can't start to suggest, though, how we can reconcile the viewpoints, with which I agree, that:
(a) I am sure this is a genuine book by a genuine chef, and
(b) The author cannot cook as this book describes
Yes, where has Blondie got to? The conspiracy theorists might suggest he/she was connected with the book. I'm not suggesting that but it must be a possibility with a likelihood somewhere between 0 and 100%. I hope this slur pulls Blondie back into the debate.
Regards
George
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I dunno,
You guys sure have dampened my spirit. I am sat here with a Kushi Base, ready to go. Kushi pre-Cooked Chicken, ready to go. Kushi Spice, ready to go and a family that I have hyped up to expect something special. Maybe once they have eaten it they will be "ready to go" too!!
I am in two minds whether to bin it and get one delivered tonight instead.
But then again I am not blaming anyone, it's just that my hopes were up on the arrival of this book and now I am not sure we have got that bit nearer to what we have already got. Perhaps the opposite.
I must agree with you Pete, there is already something about this base that say's "not quite right" but I can't see exactly what. On the face of it there is a resemblance to the Bruce Edwards base but that's about it.
The Kushi spice seems o.k. , a bit similar to Bruce's spice mix. The pre-cooked chicken's rather garlicky but otherwise bland. There is a better pre-cooked chicken in the Balti House video.
I am going to go ahead with it I think as then I can say "tried it, bought the T-Shirt etc" then put the book to bed!
My nearest BIR Pete is about a mile away. In fact we have 6 about this distance even though we are a fairly small village. Most of these are very good but the best are in Keighley and Bradford.
My nearest town (Keighley) has some great Asian shops but none that sell Mace. One guy looked at me in bewilderment when I asked for it. "Mice". he said, "we don't have mice!".
Must have tought I was taking the P--s!
I am not that dedicated to trailing miles for a bag of spice. I happened to get an emergency call while I was working which co-incidentally took me to Bradford so by luck managed to get some Mace there. George was on standby ready to kindly send me some.
You could say I drove to Bradford at 90 m.p.h. in an emergency for a bag of spice!!!
The book "Bombay Brasserie Cookbook" uses Mace, mainly in it's Garam Masala. I will dig it out and see if there is anything of interest for everyone.
As for Blondie, I am wondering where HE ( yes it's a fella ) has gone myself. He did tell me in an e-mail he has had success with recipes from the book before it was published so it would be good to hear what one's he made and what results he had.
Regards
Ray
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And there are also some Aliens among us ?;D.
I came all the way from Pluto ?just to join this forum please don't alienate us non earthers ?;D
I didn't get here by push Bike Pete but it was cold in space just the same :D).
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Mice !!!!!
Thats it, the missing ingredient, so its a secret Mice Mix not Spice mix, its all clear now, squeak squeak !!! :D.
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Yes. it is Mice.
It was a misprint in the book!
Got one out of the trap and tried it. Works a treat but makes it a bit cunchy though! Strangely enough the cat seems to love it?!
Wonder why?
Ray
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Hi all,
I haven't gone away, but stopped posting because there are quite a lot of people here who tend to be dismissive of others. There is another camp here that reads into a post what they want to read and do not take what is actually meant by the post.
If you read my posts about the Kushi book correctly, I never said that the curry I had cooked from the book was like any BIR I had ever had, but that it was exactly like the meal that I was served in the Kushi restaurant. I even went on to say that if you have a Balti dish from a BIR it will be nothing like a Balti served in an authentic Balti restaurant.
If this isn't clear enough then I give up, AGAIN,
cheers all,
Blondie
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Hi Blondie
? ? ? ? ? ? ? you were put in a very awkward situation
You must have been busting to say something but obligated not to
I respect that
But now it's all out
Cards on the table
Do you rate this book?
Have you made anything you actually like?
I'm sorry if my, and some others, scepticism proved correct but I hope there are sufficient nuggets of useful information, tips and tricks in the Balti Book to add to the huge knowledge base which we have already. I can't start to suggest, though, how we can reconcile the viewpoints, with which I agree, that:
(a) I am sure this is a genuine book by a genuine chef, and
(b) The author cannot cook as this book describes
Regards
George
Hi George
? ? ? ? ? ? ? what I am trying to say, is that whilst this chef may be able to cook,
he may not be able to explain what he does
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Hi Pete,
Yes the basic chicken balti that I cooked was very nice and was just like the Restaurant version, but the flavor is so very distinctive you would never say that it was from a BIR (and it isn't). My other half prefers me to cook Kushi recipes rather than any others.
Hope this helps,
Blondie
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Haven't received my copy of the book as yet , but based on the comments thusfar , I think that I may well be disappointed . Back to the drawing board? :)
CC
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Folks, I wouldnt give up just yet on this book, I think we have only had 1 report so far of using the book start to finish on base/pre cook/main certainly worth several attempts IMHO
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Well, i tried it last thurs or friday and the base aint very good at all. the worst ive done for a while. I think the spice mix and pre cooked stuff is good though. maybe it'll work better with bruce edwrds or k dhillons base adding the "spicy tomato mix instead of the normal recipe.
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My guess at the moment is that my original fear may have been justified when I said I had doubts about a balti cook book and would be more interested in a genuine BIR cook book. It seems this book may be true to the restaurant but not to a BIR. They didn't answer my question on the same point, i.e. does this book contain BIR style recipes? Can your cook prepare standard curry house (non-balti) fare?
I'll answer it myself. I'm sure he can but these aren't the recipes in the book.
Regards
George
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I think this red masala is used in BIR's
Probably not as fancy as the book though
I was told it had coconut, sugar and Kashmiri masala in
and those are parts of the given recipe
I don't think the red sauce, they add to the finished dish, is just marinade
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Hi All,
Right then, here we go, this is my ( long, drawn out ) contribution to the Kushi debate.
This weekend I have just made three curries of which TWO were from the Kushi Book.
I made the base as instructed with one small exception and that was I used Garlic/Ginger puree from a jar instead of fresh. I used the same amount as the recipe (10-15 gms of each) so actually used about 25 gms of the Ginger/Garlic mix in total.
Apart from this I did as instructed.
As I reported before the base was quite aromatic smelling which isn't surprising as some powerful whole spices are used, Cardamom, Cinnamon, Cloves, Star Anise, Fenugreek Seeds and of course the controversial Mace!.
I do not have a "cooking net" as the book suggests but used a metal "infuser" which is like two tea strainers clipped together to hold the spices so they can be easily removed ( Sainsbury's sell em cos their posh! ).
Perhaps, as this is a fairly open mesh more of the spice flavour infused the base so would explain why mine was quite aromatic.
I have some pics as well but can't seem to get them on the site!!
I then made the Tomato/Spice mix and added this to the Onion, Peppers, Carrot and Spice mix.
Once cool and blended this light brown mixture was the texture and thickness of condensed soup. It had an underlying kick to it and a pleasant taste but not quite what I had expected. Perhaps after all the build up to this book I was expecting the words BIR to jump from my lips but it didn't.
Never mind, press on!
The pre-cooking method produces moist meat ( I did Chicken ) with a subtle taste, certainly not overpowering curry tasting but pleasant marinaded Chicken would best describe it. I can't knock it, and it does add to the overall result.
However, the pre-cooked meat in the Balti Kitchen video is on a par if not better.
The book does state that things need to come together to make the final result!
Forever onward!
The star attraction seems to be the unique Kushi Spice mix which is said to be a closely guarded secret by many chefs.
I must say it is reminiscent of the Bruce Edwards spice mix but does make me think a mix like this is a pretty essential ingredient to an authentic curry.
After all it is used in every recipe in this book!
Once armed with the blended base sauce and the Kushi Spice the recipes are a doddle.
Fry some more Onion and Garlic, add the Kushi Spice Mix, a ladle of sauce, some Tomatoes, Coriander and away you go!! Some variations in some recipes but generally speaking the main work is done at the start with the base and pre-cooking. Prawns don't need pre-cooking!
The Basic Balti I found was very pleasant tasting. Not quite "in your face" BIR but non-the-less a very acceptable curry ( don't give up on it Pete! ).
It might not have "that taste" ( more in a minute ) we all use as the benchmark but both myself and family ( who are the guineapigs of authenticity ) felt it was a good contender as a recipe to try again. It does taste like it comes from a restaurant even though some might say not "their" particular one! There are loads near me and they all have their differences.
The King Prawn Patia was ( I am told ).............lovely!.
I can't stomach Prawns ( tastes like kissing Grimsby Dock! ), so it was my other half who gave it the thumbs up.
Sweet and sour and "just like from down the road" was the reply.
Blondie was saying his partner likes the food from this restaurant and the tastes are quite subtle and certainly not too spicy, more aromatic so maybe these recipes would suit someone with a less fiery pallet.
As an experiment I used some of the base sauce that was left over and re-fried it with more oil as the original base with only 60mls of oil did not yield any to skim off.
I added about 200 mls of Veg oil and simmered it for about 20 mins. The resultant oil that came off was absolutely gorgeous. Dark, Spicy and Aromatic and with the Smokey taste we all look for.
I wonder if this oil is then used in any future cooking of the Kushi recipes we might not get closer to the result we want to achieve?
I think "Mark J" has the right idea in that we should not give up too soon. I had a good result, not superb but good enough to warrant a second try.
Pete, I don't know what happened mate but "stew" doesn't describe mine!
"Blondie" has seen some good results.
"Vin Daloo" has tried it but thinks it worth using KD's base or Bruce's Edward's as an option? I agree it's worth a try.
Personally, I have had some good results this weekend, not perfect but good quality curry worthy of another go and a bit of "tweaking".
For anyone out there thinking of trying the Kushi Book I would say give it a go............at least once.
Regards
Ray G
Oh!, and if you are wondering what the third dish was it was CTM from the Balti Kitchen Video.
The base sauce from this is worth a look! Dead simple but makes a good curry.
And as for the Chicken Tikka Masala I think it's absolutely great and my son can't get enough of it. The only thing I do different from the video is add a quarter of a block of Coconut as well just before serving...............beautiful stuff!
Good cooking folks!
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I agree with Blondie, the authentic balti isn?t at all like the BIR, i think i also said that those looking for the BIR taste won?t find it in the book. Its a different style from BIR, trad or anything else resembling a curry you?ve had (if you haven?t had an authentic balti)
But if the dishes are like they cook in the restaurant (as Blondie said) and they have enough customers to make it worth while that the chef writes a book about his food, then there must be something wrong if you`re disappointed. If you don?t like authenic baltis, then fair enough, if you are looking for the BIR and don?t find it in the book then thats alright. But i think the book should be judged for what it is. Iv? ordered a copy from Amazon which unfortuantely arrive in Sweden after Christmas. Im hoping it will be a Birmingham balti recepe book, and Im sure if it doesn?t taste like one, youll hear plenty of comments from me.
Id suggest to those ppl trying to make it into a KD curry to give up. The flavours are subtler more aromatic, not so hot (generally) and they are cooked from scratch (more of less). The flavour comes from fresh ingrediences (fresher the better). I would suggest that ppl experiment with the qualities of the spices and the amount of oil used as usually cooks tend to be on the more conservative side when writing books.
In their book i know they suggest smaller amount of spices than some people prefer, my thought on this is, that restaurants probably have better spices to hand; so they taste better(and therefore need less), increasing the amount of spices in a curry doesn?t always make it better, it can change the consistency and taste pretty aweful, the browning of the garlic has to be done carefully as the finished dish can easily be made bitter. BTW, Ive only found 1 place where you can by freshly ground spices(mix) in Sweden, and i would always recommend buying your own and carefully roasting them and grinding them yourself, play around a bit with the recipes and see what improvments can be made, GL.
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Hi Ashes,
I agree wholeheartedly with you on two counts.
Firstly the Kushi recipes are not the BIR style we all talk about but as far as I am concerned ARE restaurant style curry, namely Balti which we agree is different. I made succesful curries at the weekend but not what I could claim were typical of BIR's near me. They were however very tasty and enjoyed by the whole family.
The quality of spices is paramount. I rarely buy any powdered spices and certainly not from supermarkets. The best source is ethnic supermarkets but make sure you look at the sell-by dates on the packets. One or two near me put the near out-of-date's at the front so I rummage to the back for the freshest. The larger shops don't seem to have this problem as their turnover is higher.
I mainly buy whole spices and I use a coffee grinder to grind down small amounts. Fenugreek Seeds don't grind well though.
The flavours dramatically change if the whole spices are lightly roasted first. The smell of freshly roasted Garam Masala is awesome and I encourage everyone to try it at least once.
Ray
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Yes Ray!
A good tip for people buying spices is make sure that the spices are stored away from sunlight, if a shop has their spices in the shop window then you might expect them to deteriorate in taste and colour. I started buying powered Methi as the hassle of roasting (they can easily burn and become bitter) and grinding them (they are as hard as Mike Tyson) can be a problem. There seem to be different Coriander seeds too, some are completely useless and give a bland taste, others (slightly larger ones) smell fantastic when roasted.The best way iv? found is to fry them in a dry pan, on a low-medium heat, move them around slowly and check the colour, they should become slighly brown and start to smell a bit like popcorn. I know this is a hassle but the difference is worth it. Those who haven?t tried roasting and grinding, be careful because it takes only a few burnt spices to ruin a spice mixture, and as spices brown at different rates (cummin browns faster than coriander for example) then it just a matter of judgement and experience and patience. Don?t be tempted to shove all your spices in one pan and roast them together as some will be over browned, others medium and others under done, and the idea is to get them all at the starting line at the same time.
Btw, talking about Mace, i?m surprised that he uses it in his recipes.
mace Notes: This is the lacy wrapping that covers nutmeg when it's plucked from the tree. Its flavor is similar to nutmeg, but slightly more bitter. It's usually sold already ground, but you can sometimes find blades of mace that you can grind yourself. Substitutes: nutmeg (sweeter and milder than mace)
I?d suggest nutmeg instead.
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Hi Ray
Although I chucked away my curry, I kept the base
I'll try boiling it with oil
In truth, when you look at the spicing, it's taste and smell is predictable
Star Anise gives a very aniseedy flavour
I clearly have never had a proper balti
I have bought curries from takeaways called "baltis" but they are nothing like this flavour
I didn't realise that it's a totally different type of curry
I think it's all down the base again
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Hi Pete,
I must agree with you in that I was a bit dissapointed with what the book represented and surprised at the initial taste of the base and resultant recipes. However, after the initial shock and realisation that this was definately something different I made two extremely tasty curries non-the-less.
We were all hyped up to expect a revelation of secret's about the BIR taste and what we got was somehow different. Not the BIR taste we are all after but this "other" curry called Balti.
And even that is hard to define as we go to restaurants advertising "Balti" and get BIR or places like the Kushi and get "Balti" instead, not a BIR in sight..........confusing isn't it! The opinions on this site after the book emerged have been interesting and diverse to say the least. It has certainly created a lively talking point if nothing else.
To be up with the top runners nowadays you must have the word "Balti" associated with your restaurant or people think you are behind the times. Where did this thing come from anyway. When I was in my teens there was no such thing yet we are now told it's been around for donkeys years!
One restaurant near me has the word "Balti" stuck in front of everything on the menu just to be "in vogue"! Balti Poppadoms, Balti Rice, Balti Pickles, Balti Toilets out back and they give you a Balti Bill at the end with Balti Belly Ache the next day!!!!
I think this site has a definate focus on the BIR taste and the introduction of this book with a seemingly different approach has brought even more confusion to us all. George has called it "information overload" and perhaps that doesn't help us much.
But I also feel the focus on this site is rather tunnel visioned with emphasis on getting that "taste" as the all important goal. Perhaps we need to broaden our approach a bit to encompass these other options out there.
I found there are similarities along the way between the BIR taste you are working so hard to find ( much respect ), and the results from the Kushi book. That isn't surprising as there are some common factors between the two. The hard bit is unravelling all this info we have now got! What a task.
For me I think the base is the most important part.
Just recently there has been a full circle turn around back to KD after it went out of the frame for a while. We also hear folk using the Balti Kitchen Base succesfully ( I have ) and other bases developed by individuals on the site such as your 600ml base.
Most of? these are simple bases, easily made, no margins of error and quite subtle. They all lend themselves to working on by adding things like "smokey oil" to enhance the flavours and get that elusive "taste". The other more robust bases like Bruce Edwards and Kushi etc are more or less curries in there own right and don't need much more adding to them to get the end result.
Whichever ones we choose to make there is one thing for certain that we are blessed on this site with so much material and so many dedicated people like yourself we may take some time over it and have many debates but I am sure we are gonna get there in the end.
Regards and good cooking,
Ray
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On the books site there are a couple of sample pages, one has colour photos. Discussions on here have only mentioned the poor quality of b&w photo's.
Does this mean there are no colour photo's in the book.
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Hi Ian,
Yes, there are colour pictures in the book that are used where the recipes are concerned.
This being a good thing as it does give an idea of the colour of the base sauce, and finished dish etc. There are quite a few B & W ones as well and although not so important I can only assume it has kept the printing costs down.
Ray
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Only other time Ive used mace is in pat chapmans 30 spice garam masala as I recall ;D
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Only other time Ive used mace is in pat chapmans 30 spice garam masala as I recall? ;D
I think I will have the mace, I bought, for many years to come
Some spices have been a welcome addition, such as Black Cardamom (used for Curry Gravy)
and Black Cummin (Brilliant in Pillau rice)
Fennel seeds are great too
They have a lovely subtle aniseedy flavour
But Mace seems surplus to requirements
Certainly unneccesary for BIR
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I have tried five of the recipes in the book so far . The base sauce has a rather distinct flavor with the addition of star of anise........however , all the dishes tended to taste the same . Increasing the amounts of Kushi spice or chili really didn't add much to any of the dishes . The Masala sauce - we have seen recipes like this before - too much coconut in this one I think...it overwhelms the dish .
CC
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Hi CC
I found my main problem, was that the base had such a strong flavour.
It's not neutral enough, but I guess that is how it's meant to be.
I was hoping I would lose some of it's aroma, when I cooked with it.
I didn't
I ended up with an aniseed stew
It's my least successful curry for years (but I think I cooked it correctly)
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Hi Pete -
Thats exactly the point....the base sauce being so strong does not allow too much if any room for spice adjustment . I think that I might try substituting cardamom for star anise .
CC
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Hi CC
Adjusting the spices could only help
It must be the flavour at his restaurant though
I think the book has a lot to offer in terms of tecniques, but from a recipe point of view,
the 100 balti book leaves it standing
I've not been disappointed with anything from that book yet
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I agree with Pete... the 100 Balti Book seems to have the edge over the Kushi Balti Book. Having tried most of the recipes in the Kushi Book I found the taste of the sauces to be both rather generic & harsh . Subtle flavoring is the key in BIR cooking ...the Kushi Book falls short on most recipes .
CC
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I've had a read of the reviews, and decided to buy the book. I think it looks really good, because as a bloke who's not very good at following recipies, it seems easy to follow. Probably a good idea to have a non-chef to ghost write the book because he'd insist it makes it simple.
I like it and would recommend it. :D
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It's good that its easy to follow etc.. but if the currys you produce from it are not up to much then it doesn't really matter how easy it was. Im still in two minds about buying this book, I want to but if its a poor mans 100 best baltis it seems almost pointless. I will start a poll 8)
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I like it and would recommend it. :D
Have you made anything from it yet? If not, how can you possibly recommend the book just because it looks good?
Regards
George
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Hi Josh, like the name ;D (and welcome to the forum)
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I dug this book out again, it's been a while since I used it!
I tried the mint raita recipe
Really excellent
The addition of ginger really does something
and I also made the Pillau Rice
I finished it off in a pot, in the oven
and wow!
terrific aroma and flavour very nice
A different kind of recipe, using fenugreek seeds and star anise
I'll have to try a few more things
I've got so many curry cook books and not enough time!!