Topic: Why Can't I Get That BIR Taste & Aroma?

[Cory Ander]

Some thoughts on why home BIR curries might be different from the real McCoy (Please feel free to elaborate on anything I've missed):

• Small scale (rather than large scale) curry base
• Short cooking times (rather than extended cooking times) for the curry base
• Small volumes (rather than large volumes) of dish preparation
• Low power heat sources (rather than high power)
• Use of frozen curry base (rather than unfrozen)
• Use of frozen garlic, ginger and tomato paste (rather than unfrozen)
• Use of frozen coriander (rather than unfrozen)
• Slow usage of spices (rather than high usage)
• Availability of nicely impregnated spice infused oil

But, to be honest, I have never noticed much of a difference when I have used fresh/unfrozen of all of the above (apart from using old, duff, spices).

The only thing I haven't really tried is a "full scale" curry base (60 litres plus?) and prolonged cooking times (3 hours plus?).  Has anyone tried this and what difference did they find please?

[natterjak]

Hi CA,

On the assumption that you're looking for an exhaustive list of all possible explanations, I'll add a few more for consideration

- the "missing taste/aroma" are in fact present but the home cook loses the ability to discern it due to overloaded / dulled senses
- food hygiene practices at home are not as slack as restaurants (maybe a function of the scale of the cooking which is undertaken, meaning ingredients hang around at room temp for longer than when home cooking and containers get refilled without being properly washed out, etc)
- cooking technique is not correct

To expand On the last point, if you include the cooking of the base, there are many individual stages to cooking a curry and under or overcooking any one stage could have a significant effect on the outcome. It's not unreasonable to assume that a full time BIR chef repeating the same recipes each day becomes aware of exactly how far to boil the onions, fry the G&G, etc and the cumulative effect of getting all these stages right makes the difference between something special and something "not quite right"

Lastly, just for a laugh....

- there's a secret ingredient "they" are not telling us about 

[ligs]

Hi guys I did a curry night 2 weeks ago for 6 adults and 6 kids pops chutneys onion bhaji sheek kebab 3 currys pilau rice and nan ,when my guests arived they said that it smelt just  like the curry house ,we all ate and everybody said how nice it was.i couldnt smell a thing of course .the next day I smelt the left over jalfrezi and it smelt good but not that bir smell.I said to my wife il have the rest for my supper tonite whitch i did(this is sunday).On the wednesday 4 days after making it Iwent in to my beer fridge in the garage and saw a container with some more of the left over jalfrezi in it, I didnt know it was there,Iopened it and wow it smelt just like the bir, it smelt superb.I then thought about the maturity thing but how do they get it mature straight away?.I went in to my usual very good ta and watched my meal being cooked, all the usual high heat & flames, one interesting thing i did notice was that one pan of base sauce was simmering but the one that he was using was on a rolling boil from when i walked in to when i left he also kept dipping the ladel in and scraping the bottom , i wondered if he was caramalizing some of the base and pulling it through the sauce to get some of the flavour in  for that early maturity?or was he just warming it up?.

[emin-j]

Interesting list there CA, as the poster above said it does make a lot of difference to the taste/smell of a curry if left for a couple of days and I have noticed exactly the same.
My Wife never eats all her Saturday night Madras I make and likes to save some for a Sunday evening snack,this sometimes is left until the Monday and I take it to work for lunch 
When reheated in the canteen at work the place smells like a t/a and my mates don't believe I made the curry 
and the flavour is much better than when made on the Saturday,whether this is because my senses have cleared or as I believe the spices are given time to infuse and the curry ' matures ' .
How a BIR achieve this maturity I don't know but as you have listed they don't use frozen base and if a home base is frozen perhaps the freezing stops the 'maturing' in it's tracks.
A BIR due to the high turnover would be using mostly fresh Spices all the time so that's another bonus.
I don't go with the idea that you need high heat to produce BIR curry's as I have seen first hand enough curry's cooked 'slowboat'  style full of BIR flavour 

Just my thoughts 

[curryhell]

- there's a secret ingredient "they" are not telling us about 

Natterjak, Az said NOT to tell anybody about it ;D ;D

Joking aside, this topic has been discussed many times in previous threads.  However, i think it's probably a good idea to discuss it again, since we didn't arrive at an answer on the previous occasions and recent experiences of members may just move this whole thing forward a bit more :.  If we all add our two penneth and experiences we may just be able to classify some of the content as pure myth and disregard it and leave ourselves a few things we can actually work on.  I'll post a few thoughts of my own tomorrow.

[joshallen2k]

CA, my thoughts...

Small scale (rather than large scale) curry base

Agree with this. I don't recall any home experiments with a 60L pot. I'd be personally surprised though if this made a noticeable difference over a typical "large" base posted on cr0.

Short cooking times (rather than extended cooking times) for the curry base

Also interesting to understand is what they do with the base at the end of day... is it left to sit overnight? Do they ever just "top it up"?

Small volumes (rather than large volumes) of dish preparation

Low power heat sources (rather than high power)

I and others that I recall have used high heat sources to cook curries in similar times to those observed in a BIR. I am curious though the BTU's of a typical BIR gas range compared to high powered home ranges, and those standalone outdoor gas rings.

Use of frozen curry base (rather than unfrozen)
Use of frozen garlic, ginger and tomato paste (rather than unfrozen)

I've rarely used frozen g/g so couldn't comment on the difference. However I can say for sure that when I went from freshly grating/mincing ginger and garlic to pureeing a mix with oil, that my curries improved dramatically. I'd never go with fresh mince again.

Use of frozen coriander (rather than unfrozen)
Slow usage of spices (rather than high usage)
Availability of nicely impregnated spice infused oil

Ahhh - the old/spiced oil argument. I honestly can't say one way or the other which is closer to BIR - with spiced or unspiced oil, having tried both over the years. I think though that there is enough video evidence to say its not a standard practice, and I've not seen reports that say those curries cooked with fresh oil are any less "BIR".

-- Josh

[Micky Tikka]

I'm sure we all make a great curry  and as good and sometimes better than some restaurants
 But I will compare  them with my favorate Curry House and this is where you want to be 
A curry does change flavour through maturity and the base I would say
when to stir and not to stir  In my opinion a CTM will come out spot on its just balancing the sugar and powders(coconut and almond) and red sauce the base seems fine in that dish It doesnt need a lot of reduction (or roasting)
sorry no answers  Just throwing afew things in

[meggeth]

Hey joshallen2k, read your comment regarding a better result using ginger garlic puree - I use pre-made jar stuff. Do you think your homemade puree would improve my curries? If so, can you please link/post your recipe? Thanks!

[Unclebuck]

Hey joshallen2k, read your comment regarding a better result using ginger garlic puree - I use pre-made jar stuff. Do you think your homemade puree would improve my curries? If so, can you please link/post your recipe? Thanks!

Im sure J2K wont mind - yes most definitely, please see link

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3915.0

[JerryM]

and prolonged cooking times (3 hours plus?)

my 3 hrs is 2 hrs before blending and then 1 hr after blending (thinning water added). i've tried extending the after blending upto i think 6 hrs. there is no change.

ps for me getting the aroma "smell" is key to BIR taste