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Author Topic: KD-base/PT  (Read 4328 times)

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Online Peripatetic Phil

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Re: KD-base/PT
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2018, 08:38 AM »
Just to clarify.  There is no spiced oil in my base, nor do I believe that there should be — IMHO, a base exists primarily to contribute onion, garlic and ginger to the final dish, as well as texture ("mouth feel"); the main spicing should take place later when the final dish is made, therby allowing each dish to be unique [1].  I do not reclaim any spiced oil from my base (a) because there is insufficient to be worth reclaiming (and what there is, is too mildly spiced to really qualify as "spiced oil"), and (b) because I believe that the oil content of the base is an intrinsic part of it.  I do, however, reclaim spiced oil from the final dish, because I prefer to cook in an excess of oil and then remove some just before serving.

** Phil.

[1] I understand that the Glasgow base takes the opposite approach, and endeavours to pack as much spicing as possible into itself.  I do not claim that this is wrong, just a very different approach.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 09:27 AM by Peripatetic Phil »
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Online livo

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Re: KD-base/PT
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2018, 09:55 AM »
But it’s randomly added in post number 8 by yourself.
(How about that for a spooky coincidence) ;)

Not the first odd coincidence I've had lately. 

Excess oil is the term I used in reply #8 and stated that it would be skimmed as the last step of a base gravy, if it were to be collected that is. It may not be required with this base gravy.  As Phil correctly points out it would have very minimal / negligent spicing anyway, but could still be collected and kept for re-use in some other process. Some people may feel it necessary to remove obvious excess oil from a base gravy. Others may not and Phil has said that he doesn't.  It would depend on the base gravy recipe used, hence the amount of oil used and the preference of the cook. 

I again referred to Excess oil recovery from base gravy at the beginning of Reply #11 and went on to discuss oil removed after the curry dish is prepared. This post dish recovered oil may be considered spiced oil.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 11:32 AM by livo »
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Online livo

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Re: KD-base/PT
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2018, 11:56 AM »
Hi would you confirm 120ml of oil is used, I make this eight times 15ml.
Thanks

Not necessarily.

US 8 Tbsp = 118.3 ml
UK 8 Tbsp =  142.1 ml
AUS 8 Tbsp = 160 ml

This question is why I, for a reason, made the comment I did about the process of removing "Excess oil", if and when required. I'm in Australia and could have excess while a US reader, and yourself, could have insufficient or the correct amount depending on KD's original recipe conversion factors.
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Online Peripatetic Phil

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Re: KD-base/PT
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2018, 12:22 PM »
US 8 Tbsp = 118.3 ml
UK 8 Tbsp =  142.1 ml
AUS 8 Tbsp = 160 ml

I would (very respectfully) disagree with the first two.  When measuring one tablespoon of oil, even if using a calibrated measure, the degree of uncertainty makes a precision of 0.1 ml impossible to achieve.  I would very much doubt whether a precision of even 1ml is achievable.  Therefore I would express the first two as "about 120 ml" and "about 140 ml" respectively — any greater precision should be treated with considerable caution.

** Phil.
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Offline CarpCarp

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Re: KD-base/PT
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2018, 01:21 PM »
A good correction Phil. 120ml give or take is the average.

Online Peripatetic Phil

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Re: KD-base/PT
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2018, 03:01 PM »
Incidentally, intrigued to learn that a UK tablespoon is not 15 ml as I had previously (and wrongly) assumed. I measured my "Vogue" tablespoon measuring spoon using a Volac B.S. 604 measuring cylinder, (standardised at 20C, the temperature of my kitchen) with units of 0.5 ml at a 2 mm vertical separation.  Being careful not to disturb the meniscus, I transferred the contents (which were cold tap water) of my measuring spoon into the measuring cylinder using a pipette, To the best of my judgement, the cylinder indicated 16¾ ml.  Oil would probably give a more rounded meniscus than water, so Google's 17.7582 ml (ridiculously over-precise, and allowing also for pipetting losses) may well be about right ...

** Phil.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 03:22 PM by Peripatetic Phil »
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Offline CarpCarp

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Re: KD-base/PT
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2018, 03:16 PM »
Ok :D let’s be realistic about bir, we are discussing practices and replication of Restaurant/Ta cooking this being KD’s end goal for us the reader. Most ingredients are eyeballed, not scientifically calculated “Chuckitinabucket” meaning a precise measurement would be inconsistent with replication.
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« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 03:31 PM by CarpCarp »

Online Peripatetic Phil

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Re: KD-base/PT
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2018, 03:44 PM »
I rarely measure or time things (microwave rice being an exception to the latter) and think in terms of teaspoons, tablespoons and so on rather than these modern metric thingies, but on cooking a lamb karahi today, using MDH Karahi Gosht masala, I confess that I weighed the lamb, the onions and the masala.  The reason was that this was the first time for some time that I had used MDH KGM, and I wanted to be sure that I knew my starting point if I wanted to repeat (or modify) the dish in the future.  For the record, the pack recipe is in terms of 500 gm lamb; I had 800, so rounded everything up by a factor of 8/5 (approx); they recommended 10–15 gm masala, I used 25; they recommended 160 gm onions, I used 230 and so on.  I won't be following their recipe to the letter (far from it, in fact, in that I am not planning to add any water or base at all, at least until the lamb is soft enough to eat — the lamb has exuded more than enough natural juices to cook in, so adding water or base at this stage (they recommend two cups of water) would be completely unnecessary, IMHO).

** Phil.
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Online livo

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Re: KD-base/PT
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2018, 09:37 PM »
I agree with all of this. Some aspects of Indian cookery are as far removed from precision as any style can be.

It would be difficult to remove the full contents of any measure of oil and I'm in no way suggesting you should, or even can, use 118.3 ml.  Completely unnecessary and ridiculous. By its own physical property of coating surfaces you will obviously end up with less. My point was to illustrate a 25 - 30% variation either way depending on locally available utensils. This is not insignificant and the reasoning behind my earlier post about excess oil removal, following the questioning of the already correctly provided amount.  This questioning appeared to me to be about the level of oil more so than the actual measured volume and so my post was not "random".  Either that or someone wanted a sticker for getting the multiplication of 8 X 15 correct.  ;D.

Levels of base oil has been widely discussed. So too has spiced oil. Different subjects.

To again bring it back to topic, I would go so far as to say that with only 2 spices in such low quantities, the KD base is very open to and tolerant of considerable inexact measurement.  At completion, and subject to individual preference, some excess (but not spiced) oil could be removed.  This alone is essentially all I said in the first place. ::)

Off topic comment. While irrelevant in BIR,  the variation in regional cup and spoon measures is critical to consider in fine bakery and pastries.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 09:49 PM by livo »
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Online Peripatetic Phil

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Re: KD-base/PT
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2018, 10:00 PM »
I would go so far as to say that with only 2 spices in such low quantities, the KD base is very open to and tolerant of considerable inexact measurement.  At completion, and subject to individual preference, some excess (but not spiced) oil could be removed.

I'm not certain that it (the removal of excess oil, that is) would be possible, at least not using my revised methodology, since the end-point of day 1 is the blitzing, after which the base will be homogenised if not emulsified.  On day 2 I bring it back to the boil (gently !) "until the oil comes out", but if I were to remove the oil at this stage there would be no oil layer to stop the base from festering ...

** Phil.
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