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Author Topic: Is Climate Change real?  (Read 700 times)

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Offline Bob-A-Job

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Is Climate Change real?
« on: March 24, 2019, 01:46 AM »
I think this is about as emotive on a planetary scale as Brexit is on a local level for us Brits.

I have seen, read, and media has published and promoted every view 'against' Climate Change and Brexit, possibly because it that is the 'popular' stance.

Homosapien have not been on the planet long, industry for even less and records for barely a second.  So scientists look to the geological record that the planet has recorded for us.  Volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, landslides and tsunamis to name just a few.  Some can make educated guesses, like the growth of flora and fauna based on oxygen levels, humidity and planetary temperatures.  We know for a fact that warming seas are killing some of those very flora and fauna and causing fish and mammals to migrate.

Governments don't want to believe in Climate Change, they don't actually say it, but they can't 'afford' to change and so they ignore and resist every change put forward by the scientific community it seems. They play 'lip service' with recycling, cycle routes, power produced from incinerating household waste whilst still allowing the exploitation and selling of fossil fuels, home and abroad.

The late Professor Stephen Hawking was very much respected and may have influenced some in the right places. in his assertion that as a species we must expand from this planet to guarantee Human existance.

Now, Sir David Attenborough (92 years old) is to address us on Climate Change.

If there is one person who's voice might be heard, maybe it is his but against Business, Corporations and Governments, it may all be over bar the "I told you so" to come in the next decades, the same decades that we seem more concerned about whether we belong to a European 'Club' rather than a planetary one.  Bizarre!

I have given you some views and facts as I see them, now your thoughts please.

BAJ

P.S.  I post this because BIR/AIR/USIR will all be effected in years/decades to come as the the availability of oils, herbs and spices, like farming, are subject to climate change.  I can't quite grow a Curry Tree "up North" as somebody alluded to recently but I might be able to soon or my children might be able to (we already have Palm Trees).  8)
If you can learn something new and have a laugh, the day has not been wasted.

Offline jalfreziT

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Re: Is Climate Change real?
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2019, 05:17 AM »
I don’t really have a firm opinion on whether it (humans causing climate change) is real. The main reason why not is that there are few unadulterated facts available.

The whole subject is clouded by politics, emotions, fanaticism and “modelling” that’s required constant re-work because it hasn’t been very accurate.

The media also speaks with only one voice and that smells suspicious. Anyone who questions climate change is attacked and labelled negatively , in a similar way to those questioning mass immigration being immediately labelled as a Nazi, before their view is even heard.

But two facts that are available:

1. Nobody knows for sure that we are heading for climate Armageddon. The only things available are “theories”, and there was once a theory that the earth was flat.

2. Whatever measures we take now, there is no way of ever knowing whether we were successful.

Because of number 1, anyone giving their opinion on the subject is simply basing it on “faith” that the evidence they’ve heard is true.

What should we do, assuming “nothing” isn’t an option?

One approach is that it’s better to try to tackle the problem, just in case it really turns out to be catastrophic.

The second would be to accept that the climate is changing, for whatever reason, but instead spend the money on technologies that will help us cope with the world in the future.




Online Peripatetic Phil

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Re: Is Climate Change real?
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2019, 07:56 AM »
Both posts raise many interesting points, but I would like to address just a couple :

What should we do, assuming “nothing” isn’t an option?

Well, it is an option, but I don't think it would be a wise one.

Quote
One approach is that it’s better to try to tackle the problem, just in case it really turns out to be catastrophic.

That, however, would seem a wise option to me.

Quote
The second would be to accept that the climate is changing, for whatever reason, but instead spend the money on technologies that will help us cope with the world in the future.

It is not "us" that matters; it is the planet, and all the species thereon.  God may have "[given] Man dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth", but when one has dominion, one also has responsibility, and our primary responsibility in my opinion is to do everything in our power to ensure that our actions do not have an adverse impact on the countless other species with which we share this planet.

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Offline jalfreziT

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Re: Is Climate Change real?
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2019, 08:19 AM »
... and our primary responsibility in my opinion is to do everything in our power to ensure that our actions do not have an adverse impact on the countless other species with which we share this planet.

I agree with you. In fact I'm guessing many/most people, if asked, would agree too.

But the problem is that most people have a deep chasm between their ideology and their actions.

Last year Brits took an average of 1,6 holidays abroad per person. That equates to 106 million holidays abroad, many of them will have been using planes.

Put as a blunt question, how many people are willing to forego their 2 weeks in Benidorm, and instead use the money to insulate their home properly? The statistics say, "not many".

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Re: Is Climate Change real?
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2019, 08:42 AM »
Well, I for one would willingly spend the rest of my life (and non-existent income) insulating the loft if it meant I would never have to go to Benidorm ...  But to be fair, given a choice between visiting (say) Bhutan (or the Galapagos Islands) and insulating the loft, the roof could come off and I wouldn't care :)
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Offline jalfreziT

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Re: Is Climate Change real?
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2019, 10:20 AM »
Nice reply about Benidorm  ;D

Thinking about another angle, and taking out our own individual choices, I think that future generations are basically screwed anyway. And climate change is only one potential part of that.

If you look at government, religious or social policy worldwide, it's mostly about increasing the population. Either getting people to have more children or making sure the existing population live as long as possible. More people just means more pollution and more drain on limited resources. It's just not going to end well, whether there is climate change or not.

And perversely, increased CO2 levels might be exactly the thing we need in the future, to help increase crop yields to feed all those extra people.

Online Peripatetic Phil

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Re: Is Climate Change real?
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2019, 10:30 AM »
If you look at government, religious or social policy worldwide, it's mostly about increasing the population.

Not entirely sure that is accurate.  More, I think, that there is widespread acceptance that limiting a family's choice as to how many children to have is not acceptable, and therefore "we" must ensure that no matter how many are born there will be adequate housing (etc) for them.  To the detriment of our countryside, of course, but only the CPRE, "real" farmers (as opposed to those who farm purely for profit) and the odd informed individual care about that ,,,
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Offline jalfreziT

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Re: Is Climate Change real?
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2019, 10:55 AM »
If you look at government, religious or social policy worldwide, it's mostly about increasing the population.

Not entirely sure that is accurate. 

It's actually a bit difficult for me to defend my statement, without spending the rest of the day copy/pasting exerts of policy from around the world.

But just taking countries close by here in Europe, governments have gone to incredible lengths to get people to breed more. Russia offered draw entry to win prizes of white goods and cars to parents., Hungary offered zero income tax for life to those who had 4 or more kids, Denmark has had TV advertising to encourage Danes to "breed for Denmark", the Nordics offer large child benefits and subsidised day care. The story is similar in Hong Kong, Korea, India, Japan, etc, etc.

I shouldn't have to go in to detail about the religious policies which support increasing population.

Expanding more, much foreign aid is linked to stopping people dying, reducing childhood mortality, reducing diseases, etc. For sure that's a good thing, but at the same time it does increase world population.

Online Peripatetic Phil

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Re: Is Climate Change real?
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2019, 11:08 AM »
Just taking countries close by here in Europe, governments have gone to incredible lengths to get people to breed more. Russia offered draw entry to win prizes of white goods and cars to parents., Hungary offered zero income tax for life to those who had 4 or more kids, Denmark has had TV advertising to encourage Danes to "breed for Denmark", the Nordics offer large child benefits and subsidised day care. The story is similar in Hong Kong, Korea, India, Japan, etc, etc.

OMG.  Total insanity/irresponsibility.

Quote
Expanding more, much foreign aid is linked to stopping people dying, reducing childhood mortality, reducing diseases, etc. For sure that's a good thing, but at the same time it does increase world population.

Agreed.  Essential for the individual, bad for the world.

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Online martinvic

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Re: Is Climate Change real?
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2019, 11:25 AM »
Can I ask when you say Theories, do you mean Scientific Theories?
Because they are two completely different things, so 'Just a theory' often wrongly gets used in these arguments.


 


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