Topic: Why are BIR Curries Today Different to Those of Yesteryear?

[Cory Ander]

It is widely held, by the more "seasoned" members here (read "old"!  ), that BIR curries today taste and smell considerably different than those of yesteryear (e.g. those of the 1970s and 1980s).  It is one of the reasons, I feel, that members are probably chasing different end points in their curry cooking endeavors.

Why is this?  No doubt the reasons are many and varied. 

These are some of my thoughts (albeit largely conjecture on my part):

1.  Change in Ethnicity of BIR Ownership:

a.  Up until 1998, around 85% of all BIRs were owned and operated by Bangladeshis (formerly Eastern Pakistan)

b.  This percentage had declined to around 65% by 2003 (and has no doubt declined further since)

c.  The percentage of Bangladeshi owned restaurants continues to decline in London and the further north of England you go

d.  In Glasgow, there is now a predominance of Punjabi owned BIRs

(Reference:  Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry)

It is reasonable to assume, therefore, that today's BIRs reflect this increasing ethnic diversity of restaurant ownership in more diverse BIR menus (i.e. regionally Indian based rather than Bangladeshi based), ingredients and cooking techniques.

2.  Market Differentiation:

To me, there seems little doubt that many BIRs are trying to differentiate themselves, from the traditional high street BIR, by moving more "up market".  More exotic menus are presented, usually emphasizing the use of fresher and more exotic ingredients and generally based on regional Indian curry cooking (e.g. Punjabi, Peshawar, Nepalese, Sri Lankan, Goan, etc).  This will often go, hand in hand, with more traditional Indian cooking methods (e.g. perhaps not using a curry base). 

The resultant curries will not only be different (that is not to say worse) from those typical of yesteryear, but will also generally cost more and take longer to prepare and serve.

3.  Changes in Food Regulations:

There can be little doubt that food hygiene standards have become more stringent over the years.  I suspect that restaurant practices, which were once commonplace, are probably no longer so commonplace.  This might, conceivably, include things like the declining use of "reclaimed oil" (for example)

4.  Health Awareness:

There is also little doubt, in my mind, that Indian (and Chinese) restaurants once used copious amounts of MSG as a flavour enhancer.  There is also little doubt, in my mind, that they also once used copious amounts of salt, artificial food colouring and lots of "unhealthy" cooking oils and fats.

It seems to me that the trend, nowadays, due to public awareness and subsequent pressure, is for BIRs to try and reduce the quantities of these "unhealthy" ingredients in their curries.  In fact, many BIRs now advertise the reduction in their use of these ingredients as a market differentiator and selling point.   However, there is also no doubt, to my mind, that some of these ingredients are fundamental to developing the taste and smell of curries from yesteryear. 

So, modern day curries may arguably be a little less unhealthy for you, but perhaps at a penalty (to some people's minds) of a different (some might say inferior) taste and smell.

5.  Availability of Commercially Prepared Ingredients:

To me, it is apparent that, nowadays, BIRs make more use of pre-prepared commercial ingredients (e.g. curry pastes, curry powders, garlic and ginger pastes, processed meats, etc).  Indeed, commercially available ingredients, such as Patak curry paste (use of which is now evident in most BIRs) would simply have been unavailable, for their use, prior to the early 1990s.

Once again, use of these pre-prepared commercially available ingredients no doubt results in a different tasting and smelling curry than those of yesteryear.

Well, these are my thoughts on why curries today taste and smell different from those of yesteryear.  Has anyone any other possible reasons they would like to suggest?

[joshallen2k]

This all sounds valid to me. Reminds me that I need to do some experimenting with MSG.

The Bangladeshi connection for me is key. The only "great" curries I've had have come from Bangladeshi-run restaurants. I remember that being true when I lived in the UK, and now in Canada the only good one (out of the dozens I've tried) is Bangladeshi-run.

I can't compare these to what curries were like in the 70's/80's, but they are the best I personally have ever had.

[gary]

Well, these are my thoughts on why curries today taste and smell different from those of yesteryear.  Has anyone any other possible reasons they would like to suggest?

It's your imagination

[Cory Ander]

It's your imagination

Does that mean that you think there is no difference then Gary?

[haldi]

The older BIR's didn't use ginger in their base, and recycled their old oil in the base too.
They used very little spicing in their curries
Mainly chillie with just a pinch of other spices and salt

[JerryM]

tried my anorac on for a while over new yr and asked my mates in the midlands what's changed in the taste of the 70's curry.

hotness, more dishes and adapting to attract a bigger market.

CA's introduction sits well with me. haldi's list pretty much sums it up other than to add greater use of fresh veg ie green pepper.

[Stephen Lindsay]

CA I think your last reason is possibly one of the biggest contributors. I think the availability of commercially prepared products for the catering trade has stemmed from the increase in demand in the UK from the 70s to 80s for curries. Indeed it has been said that CTM has replaced fish and chips as the nation's favourite dish. This being the case, commercial opportunities have opened up and been filled by pre-prepared products leading to a homogenised set of products that we now know as BIR curries.

[JerryM]

one further suggestion (altough not unanimous) was that most in extending the range of recipes had failed overall in maintaining quality. it was also questionable whether these "extensive" menu dishes ever get ordered.

[Secret Santa]

1.  Change in Ethnicity of BIR Ownership:

a.  Up until 1998, around 85% of all BIRs were owned and operated by Bangladeshis (formerly Eastern Pakistan)

b.  This percentage declined to around 65% in 2003 (and has no doubt declined further since)

c.  The percentage of Bangladeshi owned restaurants continues to decline in London and the further north of England you go

I read this a few weeks ago (although I don't recall where) and thought at the time that this is probably the exact reason, at least for me personally, that I can no longer find the type of curry I used to get. I started eating curries in a big way in the early eighties in London. Since then I've gradually migrated ever northward.

I reckon a trip to London must be on the cards to my old haunts to see if I can catch the disappearing Bangladeshi BIR!

[Cory Ander]

I read this a few weeks ago...and thought..that this is probably the exact reason, at least for me personally, that I can no longer find the type of curry I used to get

It might be part of the reason (i.e. more diverse BIR ownership) but not all, because it implies, nevertheless, that the majority of BIRs are STILL Bangladeshi owned and run. 

However, I think what it really explains is how members' perceptions of what is BIR depends upon the nature of the BIR they are familiar with.  The Ashoka, for instance, clearly is not Bangladeshi owned and run