Topic: What Ingredients are we missing

[JerryM]

i've been trying to pin point where my gaps are for a while now - in the past i could pick out differences (with my BIR TA) and apply a scatter approach to finding what was wrong.

gut feeling is that it's spice mix or recipe or ingredient related.

for inspiration i've been going through the malik video with a fine tooth comb. to make sense of it i need to be able to work out (or be pretty sure of what all the ingredients are).

there are 8 off that i'm struggling on:

A8, 17:52, B6, 18:42 - ?? tub from below
B4, 14:47 - ?? Methi?
B6, 19:15 - ?? lump
C1, 0:53 - ?? (jar_17)
C4, 17:40 - ?? herb
D1, 17:17 - ?? (jar_21)
D1, 17:17, D2, 19:27 - ?? (jar_22)
D2, 19:27, C2, 11:03, C6 21:03 - ?? (jar_15)

the video's are in link http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3013.0.

notation: A8, 17:52 - A refers to video A, 8 refers to the 8 th dish cooked and 17:52 the time the unknown ingredient is added.

any help appreciated.

[Derek Dansak]

Jerry i accept that some bir use the odd extra ingredient or 2 (eg cashew paste) but i dont think we are missing any major ingredients which will suddenly bridge the gap. I think many recipies on this site are just not very advanced or developed. After a year of trying i have finally got rid of an unwanted flavor in my madras, and found a new method which is a step closer, but not a true replica. No extra spices were introduced, but it tastes so much better. Actually i reduced and removed some spices. If i keep making gradual improvments i am convinced it will at least match some bir madras i have purchased. Personally i dont think copying chefs spice mixes is very helpful in learning about using spices. I recently dropped the use of the DD spice mix which i highly rated for 2 years. Making up your own spice mixes is better. Instead of looking for new spices i am finally learning how all the typical spices work, in combination with other inregients, so far with encouraging results. I must admit though i am intrigued by the amount of unfamilier spices i see in asian supermarkets.

[Cory Ander]

I'm sorry DD, but can you please be more specific about what you mean?....

I think many recipies on this site are just not very advanced or developed

.

What do you mean by that DD?

After a year of trying i have finally got rid of an unwanted flavor in my madras, and found a new method which is a step closer, but not a true replica. No extra spices were introduced, but it tastes so much better.  Actually i reduced and removed some spices.

What do you mean by that DD?  Please be specific?

If i keep making gradual improvments i am convinced it will at least match some bir madras i have purchased.

What "gradual improvements" are they DD?

Personally i dont think copying chefs spice mixes is very helpful in learning about using spices.

Please elaborate?  Which "chef's spice mixes"?

I recently dropped the use of the DD spice mix which i highly rated for 2 years. Making up your own spice mixes is better.

Why is is better?  What have you done that they have not done?

Instead of looking for new spices i am finally learning how all the typical spices work, in combination with other inregients, so far with encouraging results.

What an earth do you mean by that?? 

I'm sorry DD, but that must rank as one of the most diffuse posts on this forum ever!  (no offence Mikka! )

[Derek Dansak]

HI CA, what i mean is that a real bir recipe (base + a madras to go with it) must have been gradually developed over many years (possibly handed down through generations) this is why they are commercially viable, and taste much better than home cooked curry. I feel many recipies on this site are not as developed in comparison to this benchmark. I am not saying they are not good recipes, as they are very enjoyable. The chef at my local even clearly stated that you need to make tiny changes to recipies to improve it step by step, over many years. After many years it will develop in taste. Even an 8th of a tsp of tumeric can change a recipe final taste. For me thats part of the missing stages i am working on. I am trying to get to know all the key ingredients (spices, tomato, fesh coriander, garlic paste, tom puree etc) tiny chnages too the amounts of any one of these can make significant differences to the final curry. Its hard to give examples, as its best explained by just doing it yourself.  I found that my madras was tasting strange when i added lemon. It turns out a year later that this was due partly to the safron base, and the tumeric in the spice mix. now i have a new base i am testing, and make a new spice mix, and the issue no longer occurs. for me it was a breakthrough. finally i got rid of a taste that had bugged me all year. its still not perfect, but much better. my new recipe still has some issues, but it will be fun working out how to fix them.

[Cory Ander]

HI CA, what i mean is that a real bir recipe (base + a madras to go with it) must have been gradually developed over many years (possibly handed down through generations)

Oh please!  Do you REALLY think it's that complex and subtle!?

I feel many recipies on this site are not as developed in comparison to this benchmark

I still don't know what you mean by this?  Are you saying that something is still "missing"?  If so, what?

Even an 8th of a tsp of tumeric can change a recipe final taste

Do you REALLY believe that DD??  I don't!

now i have a new base i am testing, and make a new spice mix, and the issue no longer occurs. for me it was a breakthrough. finally i got rid of a taste that had bugged me all year. its still not perfect, but much better. my new recipe still has some issues, but it will be fun working out how to fix them

Obtuse DD    Please can you be more specific? 

[JerryM]

DD/CA,

very much appreciate your help. i'd love to explore this as much as we can.

i think what's going through my mind is what DD is trying to say. that is - u have to gain experience to cook like the BIR chefs we aim to emulate.

interesting on DD's spice trial - i have it in my mind to do the same (starting with Mikka's mix).

i'm not sure that we aren't missing ingredients though.

all i'm asking is have a quick look at the video and tell me what u think they are using. where this all comes from is asking my local BIR chef about chilli sauce - he blew my socks off when he said he used it and made his own. i fully expected a big NO NO.

i know we have g/g paste and bunjarra. in terms of sauces: masala, south indian, chilli. the question is for me - is there anything else. cashew paste sounds good. does anyone know of anything else.

ps my gap is small. it's certainly not down to base, nor technique, or equipment - hence my belief that it must be ingredient in some fashion - either not known or not in the right proportion.

[Derek Dansak]

Jerry, i hear what you are saying about the missing ingredient. I have tasted good bir madras that i swear are made from all the usual ingredients. they have more mastery of the ingredients though. the top notch bengal curry houses do get a taste which i cant fadom out. there could be the odd 1 or 2 missing ingredients with those.

[joshallen2k]

have a quick look at the video and tell me what u think they are using

Jerry - I took a look at 5 or 6 of your mystery ingredients. It's near impossible to say intelligently what any of those are.

[JerryM]

Josh,

thanks - i'd pretty much come to the same. i was just hoping it might just switch on someone's grey cells.

for info this is a list of what i think all the rest of the ingredients are (including the unkowns):

? Tub from below
?herb
base
coconut flour
chilli sauce
cream
fresh coriander
g/g
ghee
jar 17_? (almond powder best guess)
jar15_?
jar21_?
jar22_? (pataks best guess)
jar_23? (green chilli paste best guess)
lemon dressing
lump_?
Mango chutney
meat
methi_?
mushroom
onion paste (jar_24)
oil
onion
red paste (masala)
spice
sugar
tom puree
vegetables

[emin-j]

 : here we go again !
I have found it's so important not to burn either the Garlic / Ginger or the Spices which is easily done , also the amount of Salt is critical to get the best flavour , we have all the recipes and ingredients it's just down to technique and practice .