Topic: Running out of ideas

[Derek Dansak]

hi CA, yes i do understand that. The thing is i dont feel completely happy with my repetiore of bir style dishes. some are good, but i do feel i might achieve better results with the style mark describes.
   For 2 reasons
1)  years of doing the 1 base gravy with spice mix method has left me with a good jalfrezzi, and dansak, but madras is poor.   
2)  The method mark describes sits well with me because i like the idea of essentially adding the spice for a long cook in the base. This brings out a good taste in my opinion. + i still like the ashoka style.
  I would be pleased to learn marks restaurant style better, and forget about the whole bir thing, until cr0 convinces me otherwise.   
     
   

[Masala Mark]

Hi CA,

I'm not sure what part of Aus you are in, but have you ever found an Indian Restaurant here that makes them as per BIR style.

I've never had BIR curries only Australian and Canadian, the Canadian were pretty much exactly the same as what we get here.

I know this is a hard ask, but how would you describe the differences?

Cheers,
Mark

[ELW]

hi CA, yes i do understand that. The thing is i dont feel completely happy with my repetiore of bir style dishes.     

I think alot of members & guestson here feel exactly the same. Seasoned/used oil aside, I've tried everything I can think of to pinpoint whats missing, which there is certainly is something missing in my efforts..my latest stab at it has been Ashoka base, although by no means the best, the restaurant chain has bir taste i am familiar with.

Ashoka  base simmered all day & used the next: thickened  & darkened - no difference in taste

1st ladle reduced in pan to almost bubbles: no improvement

Cooking spices/herbs in garlic /ginger / tomato paste as opposed to frying in oil: spices seem to cook either way

Texture / colour: mostly good

The predominant taste in my dishes is the base sauce, which is not right. My conclusions to date are~ The base is either overpowering the other flavours & isnt how the restaurant do theirs
or
the dish is missing another key addition (paste/gravy)at the cooking of the dish stage...in fairness to the original poster of the Ashoka stuff(Panpot, does he not come on any more?), he did say he never tasted the base on its own, when he was in their kitchen
I've recently had an Ashoka menu put through my door, which states paprika is used in their karahi bhuna, but is not in what seems to be a bona fide recipe on cr0, witnessed by a Panpot?
Tonight I ordered a bhuna & madras from one of my locals(good quality) the difference to my dishes is stark. The sauces  have a taste you would associate with maybe a soup with a good quality stock used. I now cant see how the bases i have been using & packet spices alone can ever produce a flavour anything like this..after all g&g paste is g&g paste.
Like DD, I am also interested in the additional gravy style & recipies from masala mark, def worth a go
Apologies in advance for longwindedness!
Regards
ELW

[Whandsy]

I'd be interested to know if any members think they have 100% cracked it and have the takeaway / restaurant quality down to a tee!! as opposed to being close! I know a lot of us are happy with the results and friends etc can't tell the difference (or tell us that), but my last effort whilst very good, was shy of the mark

[Razor]

Hi Wayne,

I would say that, 90% of the time I do get TA quality dishes but, everything has to be done 'spot on' for me to achieve the desired results. Timing is crucial, and knowing how far to go is too.  Singing spices and burning them, is a very fine line.  I take the, hot, quench, hot, quench approach for example; in goes the gg paste in hot oil, then quench with tom puree. Get the oil back to temp then in goes the spices.  Again, I then quench with a chefspoon of base and bring back to temp.  In goes the veg (if using) then quench again with more base and so on and so forth.

My Madras is bang on to my local TA's. My Jal Frezi is better IMO than my local TA's.  I'm well happy with my Bhuna's too and whilst I don't eat Korma, my wife thinks that it's better than my TA's version

CTM is a dish that I rarely eat and so, I don't cook it often but it sure is one dish that I need to work on.  Dhansak is another dish that I need more practise with.  But in the main, I'm quite happy with what I cook. 

I've even started to stuff ear plugs up my nose to ensure that I don't get 'spiced out' whilst cooking, and it does help a great deal.

Hope I don't come across as being arrogant here but I really am happy with what I cook compared to the TA's....maybe my local TA's are Shite....don't know

Ray

[Les]

An interesting question Whandsy
I don't think that anyone will ever reach that 100%, We will always try to make the next effort better than the last, (Nature of the beast, that's how we are), And if you ever reach 100%, Where do you go from there? Stop! no I don't think so, There would be no more challenge. ;D
Just my opinion of course

HS

[curryhell]

My Madras is bang on to my local TA's. My Jal Frezi is better IMO than my local TA's.  I'm well happy with my Bhuna's too and whilst I don't eat Korma, my wife thinks that it's better than my TA's version

CTM is a dish that I rarely eat and so, I don't cook it often but it sure is one dish that I need to work on.  Dhansak is another dish that I need more practise with.  But in the main, I'm quite happy with what I cook. 

It's good to hear this Ray as there is an air of despondency around at the moment .  I don't think it is always possible to produce dishes identicle to your local unless of course your gravy and spice mix are the same (that being unlikely).  On top of that your technique needs to correct as well.  But as many of will say you can get damn close and sometimes our own efforts are even better ;D ;D.

I've even started to stuff ear plugs up my nose to ensure that I don't get 'spiced out' whilst cooking, and it does help a great deal.

The lengths some people will go to .  Why am i not surprised that it works though although some others will disagree. ;D ;D

Hope I don't come across as being arrogant here but I really am happy with what I cook compared to the TA's....maybe my local TA's are Shite....don't know

Ray

Not at all mate, just being honest and re. your locals I doubt that too or they'd not be in business long.  I think it's all about concentrating on your prefered dishes and working until you have something close but as we know, this may take a while and determination .  The good thing is you can nail a lot of the items on the menu along the way but to master it all is a lifetime's work, unless of course you start training as a BIR chef - unlikely.

[Razor]

Hey CH,

I think it's all about concentrating on your preferred dishes and working until you have something close

Absolutely!  I've been working on Madras for what seems like an eternity but with a great deal of help from Chewytikka, and a bit of thinking outside the box, I've nailed it.

My locals Madras does have a slight anise flavour to it.  Not everyones idea of a Madras I know but theirs is by far the best madras that I've tasted.  Chewys madras method is as sound as it comes for me but, I now grind half a small star anise to a very fine powder and this goes in with the mixed powder and chilli.  It's given me that missing 5%, certainly for the madras anyway.

I can't remember but I think it was one of Mick's (CBM) videos, where the chef sprinkles some powder into the dish and when asked what it was he replied "star seed"  Now at the time of seeing this, I thought he meant garam masala, as it went in towards the end but, I took him for his word and used star seed (star anise) and bingo, it was there 100% clone.

As for the nose plugs (ear plugs) it really does work.  I started doing it because over the last year, I've really suffered with my sinus's and it always seemed to flare up after a good curry(ing) session.  Since using the ear plugs, I haven't had a problem..........just goes to show doesn't it ;D

Ray

[Whandsy]

My Madras is bang on to my local TA's. My Jal Frezi is better IMO than my local TA's.  I'm well happy with my Bhuna's too and whilst I don't eat Korma, my wife thinks that it's better than my TA's version

CTM is a dish that I rarely eat and so, I don't cook it often but it sure is one dish that I need to work on.  Dhansak is another dish that I need more practise with.  But in the main, I'm quite happy with what I cook. 

It's good to hear this Ray as there is an air of despondency around at the moment .  I don't think it is always possible to produce dishes identicle to your local unless of course your gravy and spice mix are the same (that being unlikely).  On top of that your technique needs to correct as well.  But as many of will say you can get damn close and sometimes our own efforts are even better ;D ;D.

I've even started to stuff ear plugs up my nose to ensure that I don't get 'spiced out' whilst cooking, and it does help a great deal.

The lengths some people will go to .  Why am i not surprised that it works though although some others will disagree. ;D ;D

Hope I don't come across as being arrogant here but I really am happy with what I cook compared to the TA's....maybe my local TA's are Shite....don't know

Ray

Not at all mate, just being honest and re. your locals I doubt that too or they'd not be in business long.  I think it's all about concentrating on your prefered dishes and working until you have something close but as we know, this may take a while and determination .  The good thing is you can nail a lot of the items on the menu along the way but to master it all is a lifetime's work, unless of course you start training as a BIR chef - unlikely.

I agree with all of this and I'm now in the belief of a good base being the key. The other night I made a multitude of the same curry's with varying techniques.

1 homemade GG vs jar GG result was equal
2 Frying the spices for 25 seconds (ish) vs quick fry then base. Result no difference
3 lots of base in the pan reducing on high heat vs bringing down slowly. Result no difference
4 lots of mixed powder vs a little mixed powder. Result was different but only strength, not the missing link

My base hasn't got much spice in it and when I tasted the takeaways base sauce, that didn't taste spicey either.

That conflicts with Julian at curry to go however, as when you watch his base video there appears to be vast quantities of spices going in, which must give an end result of a curry in itself surely!

I think my next attempts are going to be with a base with lots of spice added.

What are other peoples opinion? A little or a lot?

Merry christmas 

[ELW]

Singing spices and burning them, is a very fine line.  I take the, hot, quench, hot, quench approach for example; in goes the gg paste in hot oil, then quench with tom puree. Get the oil back to temp then in goes the spices.  Again, I then quench with a chefspoon of base and bring back to temp.  In goes the veg (if using) then quench again with more base and so on and so forth.

I use that method also Razor, to stop cooking anything further than i want. When starting out I deliberately over & undercooked spices & GG, to register taste..I can still taste them now even thinking about them..then i know when I've botched that part of the cooking.
Hi Curryhell
we're spoiled for choice in restaurants/takeaways here in Glasgow, the restaurants imo producing far better quality rather than the t/a's. Some of the ta's have a go at just about anything, with a large amount of them being possibly Turkish run, rather than Ind/Pak/Bangl. That said some are pretty good, & I would go as far as to say that there is is distinctive flavour in all of them, in varying degrees, pretty much right across the board. Some of the lower quality places suffer from all of their dishes tasting the same, no matter what you order, no matter what the ingredients, with the 'unusual flavour overpowering the rest of the ingredients.  It lies behind the flavour of the ingredients, whatever they may be, like layers. It reminds me very much of commercial stock, its like nothing in my cupboards & its what makes me finish every single bit of it & return for more  week in / out - I realise im preaching to the converted here 

We have recently changed our ta to a local one which was established around 25 yrs ago...mosaic tiles still on the exterior, a great find, I have tried around 15 different dishes, each one has its own unique flavour,due to the ingredients. The chefs has clearly got the balance right. They have just started to advertise home style (desi)cooking of Karahi & Bhoona - 45 min prep time along with another 30 or so other dishes..im goin to taste test one of these next week, maybe christmas day   ;D & try & find out if a base is used...failing I've got a bhoona on the waiting list for an mri scan!
Not completely out of ideas yet...but getting there

Regards
ELW