Curry Recipes Online
Curry Photos & Videos => Pictures of Your Curries => Topic started by: goncalo on March 20, 2013, 09:42 PM
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So I've decided to keep my ventures to a single thread, rather than opening one new every time. I will document here my experiments, successes and failures and ideas for the future.
I got some scotish smoked salmon from lidl and decided to give "Salmon Ceylon" a try, using some left-over coconut&ginger rice to further accentuate the coconut flavors and a peshwari naan that my girlfriend brought from a restaurant we are going to try tomorrow night. The result was FAB, the only thing missing being the BIR flavor.
I made a marinate on the spot, which I wasn't sure was going to come together well. After tasting the salmon, I thought it came together beautifully.
Salmon Marinade:
2 tbsp of tomato puree
2 tsp of tandoori masala
1 tsp of mr. naga
1 tsp of Rajah All Purpose Seasoning
1 hpd tsp mix powder (CBM's mix powder #2)
1.5 hpd tsps of g&g
juice of half-lemon
pinch of methi, rubbed to fine powder
Everything into a bowl and whisk until everything is fully mixed and cover the salmon with it and let it seat for at least 10mins. Allows for 2 reasonably alrge portions of salmon, 4 if only using on the top side
Salmon Ceylon:
1. Turn the flame up to medium heat, wait 30 seconds, add oil.
2. Add g&g and wait until it finishes sizzling
3. Add tomato sauce cook it for 15-30 seconds
4. Add salt, fenugreek, mix powder, chilli... mix well.
5. Add a ladle of base
6. Crush 25gm of creamed coconut block over the pan
7. Add another ladle of base to help loosen the sauce which should be looking reduced but creamy by now
8. Add the salmon and let it cook in the sauce undisturbed for 2 minutes, mix seldomly
9. Add fresh tomato and/or coriander
10. Add lemon juice to taste
(http://i.imgur.com/NnE0129l.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/WDh3Z1Ul.jpg)
My girlfriend surprised me with this peshwari. Now, the looks can be deceiving and this is possibly one of the best peshwari naans I've had.
(http://i.imgur.com/cAsIhfMl.jpg)
Meal Rating: 4.5/5
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Well done for giving it ago, how do you rate the Mr Naga? I seriously think you need to work on your presentation though :P But actually, the curry sauce looks good and I would have gladly dived in. ;)
Was the Naan home made or bought in?
Look forward to your culinary curry journey. :)
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A little confused, Goncalo (or perhaps very confused); what made you choose smoked salmon as the basis for your salmon Ceylon as opposed to fresh salmon ? For me, the whole joy of smoked salmon is that you eat it just as it comes (i.e., without cooking); I really cannot imagine what it must taste like cooked ...
** Phil.
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Thanks axe! My presentation skills are, admittedly, a work in progress (just as my cooking skills in general)!
The Mr Naga was the overpowering flavour/smell in yesterday's curry which I don't think I like that much. In this marinade I didn't find it overpowering, the heat was there, but the flavour/smell wasn't discernible. One thing I found "strange" is that my girlfriend as soon as she sampled the salmon, she immediately ran looking for a drink and cursing simultaneously. I found the heat was way way below the threshold on this dish, to the point I didn't notice there was heat until she mentioned it. It was really mild nevertheless. That got me thinking about how tolerant to heat I might be. 1.5 tsp of mr. naga don't seem to do much for the heat. In fairness, I was expecting more capsaicin power and less flavour out of this pickle :)
The naan was bought from a restaurant called Himalaya Tandoori (http://www.himalayatandoori.com/). We are having dinner there tomorrow. A friend of my girlfriend that lived in London and is big into indian food, rates this restaurant as the best in Dublin and so X marks the spot and I shall be reviewing it!
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A little confused, Goncalo (or perhaps very confused); what made you choose smoked salmon as the basis for your salmon Ceylon as opposed to fresh salmon ? For me, the whole joy of smoked salmon is that you eat it just as it comes (i.e., without cooking); I really cannot imagine what it must taste like cooked ...
The purists fish mongers will do just what you do, I personally prefer my salmon crispy. I can't think of eating fish that still has a lot of raw/ocean tastes and smells to it, just a matter of preference I suppose.
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I'm afraid i'm with Phil on the hot smoked salmon, though I have never tried smoked salmon in a curry, so can I ask, did you taste the smokiness of the fish in the curry? I know from my last experience, the Ceylon is quite potent and you also put Naga pickle in it. My concern is that there is quite alot going on for a mild mannered smoked salmon to be appreciated. Of course we all have different tastes, but I am interested in your reply to this. My head is buzzing with options here though, monk fish tikka for one. :)
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The purists fish mongers will do just what you do, I personally prefer my salmon crispy. I can't think of eating fish that still has a lot of raw/ocean tastes and smells to it, just a matter of preference I suppose.
OK, cripsy salmon has a lot going for it (grilled salmon steaks served with Lyonnaise potatoes & ma
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but in a sandwich made of Hovis(R) Original Wheatgerm bread with cucumber slices so thin you could read The Times through them, lightly drizzled with a little lemon juice and a good grind of fresh black pepper........).
Keep talking like that Phil :P
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I'm afraid i'm with Phil on the hot smoked salmon, though I have never tried smoked salmon in a curry, so can I ask, did you taste the smokiness of the fish in the curry? I know from my last experience, the Ceylon is quite potent and you also put Naga pickle in it. My concern is that there is quite alot going on for a mild mannered smoked salmon to be appreciated. Of course we all have different tastes, but I am interested in your reply to this. My head is buzzing with options here though, monk fish tikka for one. :)
Yes, there is a "smoked" flavour that seems to prevade into the curry which I very much liked. I am generally modest when I rate my food, because no matter what, I'm rarely ever close to my ambitions. I do think this time the only thing missing was the "BIR" flavor and then again, I could just not be perceiving it due to a lot of things going on in the kitchen.
The purists fish mongers will do just what you do, I personally prefer my salmon crispy. I can't think of eating fish that still has a lot of raw/ocean tastes and smells to it, just a matter of preference I suppose.
OK, cripsy salmon has a lot going for it (grilled salmon steaks served with Lyonnaise potatoes & ma
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How was your tandoori salmon served, in thin slices or as tikka or a whole fillet?
Thinly sliced hot smoked salmon is not raw, it is cured with hot smoke. It is delicate and can be enjoyed with many pairings. Probably better to Google it than let me ramble on about it though. ;)
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How was your tandoori salmon served, in thin slices or as tikka or a whole fillet?
Thinly sliced hot smoked salmon is not raw, it is cured with hot smoke. It is delicate and can be enjoyed with many pairings. Probably better to Google it than let me ramble on about it though. ;)
It was served in whole-fillet (which is what I have been referring to as "raw", pardon my whacky terminology). I understand what smoked salmon is, but I love the flavour of it after grilled, whereas I wouldn't like the flavour of a whole fillet, which would still impart a lot of sea flavors :)
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Random thoughts:
My benchmark of a good BIR/IR is a chicken jalfrezi. It must have a smoky flavor, must not be overly saucy but not too dry either, must have fresh green chillies, fresh peppers, layers of onion and fresh tomato cooked in the sauce and spices and garnished with thinly sliced coriander. It must be hot, but not head-blowing hot. The cooking principle is a stir fry, not a broil.
Off the top of my head and recollections from my past experience in Cambridge, I reckon these were my favourite restaurants when it comes to this dish: Meghna, Pipasha, Golden Spice and Renus. All of them did a great job at producing a jalfrezi as well as fantastic bombay aloo, which I find is the perfect combination for this dish and they are essentially the references I use when I judge my food or any other restaurant's food. It is thus the dish that I aim to perfect and closely "copy" from my favorites. My agenda isn't too lengthy, but these need.to.be.nailed:
* Chicken Jalfrezi
* Bombay Aloo
* Garlic Chilli Chicken
* Chicken Shatkora
rant off.
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Hi GC regards the salmon, I think it was your reference to raw that kept throwing me. Hot smoke cooks the fish but cold smoke does not. Anyway you've cleared that up for me. ;)
Jalfrezi is one dish I really enjoy these days and has to be among my top 3 at least, though I prefer to have this dish with plain rice. For me this forms the perfect relationship as the two seem to bring the best out in each other.
I find most bombay aloo dishes around these parts are quite mild, dare I say almost boring. How does that compare to what you were used to in Cambridge?
I've yet to try garlic chilli chicken, I must work on rectifying that.
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I find most bombay aloo dishes around these parts are quite mild, dare I say almost boring. How does that compare to what you were used to in Cambridge?
In my experience, bombay aloo is medium spiced, slightly less hot than a jalfrezi, full flavored and aromatic (not in the same sense as a pilau though), has pepper, onions and fresh tomato (occasionally a fresh chilli) -- I can't put my finger on what exactly is under that flavour, but whatever it is, has to be one of the spices making up panch phoron. At a guess, it could quite possibly be mustard seeds which I've seen in several non-bir recipes as well.
There is nothing bland about the bombay aloos I have tried in england -- though if you ask about bombay aloo in Ireland then that's another story. It's just an aloo curry. This may be one of the reasons why I am finding it so hard to nail the right amount of flavor in the spuds. There also isn't a lot of sauce in bombay aloo and I'd say that any sauce is generally made up of mashed bits, hence thick in density. A bit oily would be characteristic in most TAs here as well.
N.B: These are essentially my regional observations, as I've never heard about the origins of this dish and never had the chance to branch out of Cambridge too much, but it's not too late ;-)
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I'm not really into fish curries or prawn for that matter but surely the smoked salmon is lost in the Ceylon.
I popped into my favourite Gare du Nord Tamil restaurant for lunch and the owner as he sometimes does, give me a little dish of something to taste. Today it was a dried fish curry, I didn't really like it but the taste of the fish came through quite strongly.
Not sure what the connection is, but maybe someone will find it useful ;D
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I'm not really into fish curries or prawn for that matter but surely the smoked salmon is lost in the Ceylon.
I popped into my favourite Gare du Nord Tamil restaurant for lunch and the owner as he sometimes does, give me a little dish of something to taste. Today it was a dried fish curry, I didn't really like it but the taste of the fish came through quite strongly.
Not sure what the connection is, but maybe someone will find it useful ;D
I'm not sure what you mean by 'lost', I have not felt anything missing in my dish. Quite the contrary.. :-)
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I think this weekend, I am going to try a couple of things I haven't done before, which don't require base. One is the aloo keema, which I had yesterday for the first time and loved. I have not found a recipe on this site, but titli's busy kitchen has one, so I'll give that one ago, using my current mix powder (CBM mix powder #2). I am also going to try and make tasty bombay aloo without base. In case I change my mind about which base I get to do next, I accept suggestions:
1. ChewyTikka
2. cook4one C44
3. Zaal
4. KD1
5. ...?
(Tried already: CA, TAZ, C2G, DARTHPHALL, CBM's book)
Also, any other baseless recipes you can recommend are always welcome :-)
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I'm not really into fish curries or prawn for that matter but surely the smoked salmon is lost in the Ceylon.
I popped into my favourite Gare du Nord Tamil restaurant for lunch and the owner as he sometimes does, give me a little dish of something to taste. Today it was a dried fish curry, I didn't really like it but the taste of the fish came through quite strongly.
Not sure what the connection is, but maybe someone will find it useful ;D
You probably wont like Nethili either then. Curried whitebait. mmmmmmn ;D
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I don't even really like prawns in a curry! A nice bowl of fried whitebait on the other hand :P
1. ChewyTikka
Number one for a reason.
I like the Zaal too although I've just started using my first batch.
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Thanks fried. I need to try that one, however, here's what happened tonight. As I think I wrote before somewhere, I was going to visit the tandoori himalaya today and I did. Starter: tandoori mix platter, popadoms and chutneys/pickles/raita as usual. Mains:
I ordered:
- jalfrezi
- bombay aloo
the missus ordered:
- butter chicken
- pilau rice
1 peshwari, 1 keema naan.
The tandoori mix had no red coloring. That made me suspicious. There was 2 sheek kebab, 2 pieces of fatty beef piece, 1 chicken leg, 1 chicken breast on the bone. Upwards of ok, not amazing.
The mains arrive and the first impression was "I'm up for disappointment" judging by the amount of sauce in the dish, but as the taste counts more in my book, I tried not to let me down by pre-judgement. I look at butter chicken, which was red colored and I wondered whether they had brought in chicken tikka by accident.
I eat the first spoon off of my jalfrezi and the first thing I notice is that the sauce tasted exactly the base sauce I made at home with CBM's recipe and C2G's recipe, which comes quite close. Worst, there was no tomato puree in it, so it was like I was eating just stock with a bit of meat and green peppers. It was extremely mild for my tastes. The bombay potatoes was the same dish but with potatoes. The naans were good, so the last thing on the agenda, was to give butter chicken a try. I remember having tried this before in UK and I didn't become a big fan of it, but then I'm not a big butter fan either. The butter chicken was essentially a tomato soup mixed with a little base sauce and loads of food coloring. Disappointing, but I couldn't judge better.
Rating: 2.5/5
Thankfully I know better already, but I'm seriously wondering if there is room for proper indian in Dublin, because the irish will eat just about anything and think it was the best meal ever, so much so that with my current skills and knowledge I'm quite confident I could profit (though I have a relatively stable career in IT, so probably unlikely.) on at least a couple of dishes that I have rehearsed plenty.
That said, I seem to recall someone's comments that chewytikka's base was very similar to CBM's and that it was a true bangladeshi styled base, which I think is also what I got tonight and which made me feel a little sick -- I know the staff was bengali and presumably the chefs were too. Seeing as I had my share of "pure bengali" bases, I'd be keen on trying other variations/bases, so that probably leaves me with Zaal's base as a potential candidate.
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Sad to hear you've had to endure yet another disappointing meal in a restaurant but pleased that you're at least getting out and comparing commercial fare to your own home cooked and finding it compares favourably.
As home cooks of this style food I think we become hyper-critical of our own efforts in part because we don't have a wide variety of people tasting them and giving us feedback on them, so as cooks we tend to judge them ourselves, often harshly.
Whenever members here have cooked for other people, from what I've read, the feedback they receive seems to be pretty favourable, which tends to support the view that what we produce at home will, more often than not, match or better that produced by BIR restaurants.
I'm finding that myself. I used to use a pretty standard Chicken Madras as my benchmark dish to judge restaurants on and then Chicken Bhuna, but I find the standard offerings of these dishes to be so poor, I've moved to a Chicken Dhansak, which, in my opinion is a much easier dish to get right. Yet the last restaurant I visited about 3-4 weeks ago couldn't even get that right. It was bland, almost like a standard chicken curry with a few dollops of lentils in it, very disappointing.
Dhansak for me has quite complex underlying flavours, it's hot, sweet and sour with an overlay of smokiness and an almost unctuous unami savoury-ness to it. The one I cooked last night had all those characteristics and beat the restaurant one hands down and every which way.
I've said it before, I'll say it again, everything anyone needs to produce very good BIR style dishes that will compare very well with your average BIR restaurant are right here on this forum if you're prepared to look for them, adopt the methods and perfect them and use the right ingredients.
There are no secret ingredients and there are no secret methods. Yet there will always be someone, somewhere who thinks they have the secret and will try and profit from it. You know the old saying -
A fool and his money soon part.
I'm glad you're moving on in your BIR journey and getting the results equal to the efforts you're clearly putting in.
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Thanks spicyokoko! I think you hit the nail on the head. I am extremely critical about my food. The few guests I've cooked food for so far, have all provided positive feedback, but being a little paranoid, one has to wonder whether they are just being sympathetic or whether they would be the kind who would eat anything and always find whatever is given to them good, within reason. I know my girlfriend loves my food, but I also know she's not very critical of whatever she eats (however, she disliked the butter chicken yesterday) and I think this may very well be down to the irish people in general. My girlfriend and her family would eat chipper quite regularly, given the choice of indian or chinese, they'd be more keen on latter, hence, I have to rely highly on my recollections of what proper indian food is and again, it is entirely down to my experiences in a single city in UK.
When I tried CBM's base for the first time, I had previously made the C2G base (although I've never squeezed the vinegary aroma out of it during its cooking as required, so the result may not be the expected or what most get) and I thought that both bases were identical in terms of flavour and smell. After yesterday's disappointment, I kept wondering if this common flavour between bases (CBM, C2G) would be the standard Bengali base-flavour in other parts of UK, because, as far as I can remember and it's been 6 months since my last UK curry (admittedly, memory may be jaded by now), I've never had any curry resembling this flavour in whole or in part -- and It's not like its bad, but it just isn't what I'm after. The restaurants in Cambridge all had a savoury edge to them. Their base had nothing in common with this one or any on this forum. It feels minimalistic in comparison.
If I decide to fly into Manchester as has been discussed, I will be taking a day to visit
Manchester, followed by bradford and then head towards Cambridge. This should give me wider exposure to 2 other important regions when it comes to BIR.
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Found some left-over salmon and thought this was the perfect excuse to try and make a baseless bombay aloo, because the more I think about them, the more I believe that is how I used to get my bombay aloo from my favorite BA supplier back in the day, although I might be confused as well. If there was any base in the BA, then sure enough it was downwards of 1/2 of ladle. I think I got it right in many levels this time, including taste, texture, looks and a few things I think can be improved:
1. Use of par-boiled potatoes as a starting point
2. Panch phoron has a characteristic flavour and a BIR smell, but it seems it makes the flavour bitter too. I should probably try with mustard seeds only
3. fresh tomato and coriander were not available and I always find coriander to be one of the essences of the smell and flavour of bombay aloo.
(http://i.imgur.com/7msbIz5l.jpg)
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1. Use of par-boiled potatoes as a starting point
I would say that's a pretty good place to start.
I've been twiddling with a traditional Aloo Methi recipe recently, turning it into BIR style. You might like to try a similar technique for your bombay potatoes.
Par boil the potatoes in boiling water with a pinch or so of turmeric and salt. I usually use maris piper potatoes as I find they have the right texture for this and go tender without falling apart. To boil these to done, I'd usually give them 10 mins in boiling water, for a par boil, I usually do them to about 6/7 minutes. The timings are from when the water is boiling, I boil the water, add the potatoes and start timing once they start boiling again. Strain these.
I then start as I would do normally when cooking BIR, heat the oil, heaped tsp of g/g, spices (1/2 tsp mix, 1/2 tsp chilli, 1/4 tsp salt) fry the spices, in go the potatoes and mix with the spices and paste, 1 chef spoon of base or reduced cooking liquid from boiled potatoes or a combination of both and reduce the liquid in the pan to half or until it just thickens and clings to the potatoes.
The key here are timings. Par boiling the potatoes initially to about 1/3rd to 3/4 done and finishing them off whilst reducing the liquid in the pan to a thickish sauce without them disintegrating and falling apart.
You can try popping mustard seeds first, you can try adding some chopped green chilli's towards the end of frying the g/g paste or towards the end of cooking, you can try adding some methi leaves towards the end of spice frying or adding panch phoran to the spice mix until you arrive at works for you.
Experiment, taste, experiment, taste etc. until you arrive at what you feel is the right taste and texture.
And enjoy eating the experiments :)
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So I've finally found a takeaway in Dublin that has the BIR taste and smell and it's quite similar to the ones I was used to in UK, it is the Shakira in Clondalkin, Dublin 22. I ordered a tikka jalfrezi, pilau, peshwari naan and a biryani tikka and asked if I could get a naan instead of the veg curry. The only disappointing thing was the naans that felt a bit too thin. I called back just to ask if the chef was bengali and to my surprise, I was told he is from Punjab. As I placed the order on just-eat yesterday, next time I am going to drive to try and establish a relationship and possibly ask to see how things are being done behind the scenes. Watch this space.
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Par boil the potatoes in boiling water with a pinch or so of turmeric and salt. I usually use maris piper potatoes as I find they have the right texture for this and go tender without falling apart. To boil these to done, I'd usually give them 10 mins in boiling water, for a par boil, I usually do them to about 6/7 minutes. The timings are from when the water is boiling, I boil the water, add the potatoes and start timing once they start boiling again. Strain these.
That is an excellent tip. I suppose this will vary depending on the number/size of potatoes, size of pot and power of hob jets though? I will definitely play around with those settings though :)
One more question, when it starts boiling and you start your counter for 6/7 minutes, do you lower the heat from the moment they start boiling? Also, regarding maris pipers, I can't easily source them here in most super markets. I suppose potatoes is something we have in different varieties around here (I think the irish are known for their potatoes) but either they exist and aren't tagged as such, or there is no tag at all, which is more often than not the case.
I never had the methi aloo, but I'm sort of curious. The aroma from methi used to make me feel pretty sick, but I think it's grown on me. Same for cumin, so I'll try it some time -- maybe the methi gosht that has been discussed recently :)
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It's been a while since I last updated this "log". My last base was SnS's Zaffron base recipe and for me its a definite winner. The end result does not feel too dissimilar to the taz base, although it is somewhat richer. The thicker texture is likely because of the 210g of potato. I wonder how would a base like this work, if, say, we'd reduce the 500ml of oil to 100 or 200. I should probably add this to my list of experiments to accomplish.
My best jalfrezi to date and closest to the BIR flavor so far. Things I've done differently: I par-fried the peppers and onions, used salt and more than a tsp of dried methi leaves, which accentuated the herbal flavour.
(http://i.imgur.com/PvYS9Lvl.jpg)
I also ventured into the world of less BIR cuisine, and tried to make keema aloo, however I didn't get anywhere near my goal -- it was tasty and to a certain extent, it was almost like I shredded a sheek kebab and threw in some bombay aloo - but the version I had at a pakistani restaurant had a gravy/stock that was full flavored and mine became a bit too dried and the potatoes had more of a bite to them that I was expecting. Here's a picture anyway:
(http://i.imgur.com/asJiw2jl.jpg)
Lately I've been using the Viceroy Brasserie recipe for pre-cooking chicken and I find it's also a big winner. I've also been cooking biryani rice sans the vegetable curry. I noticed that every time I cook some, the first floor of my house is replenished with that lovely takeaway/bir smell that we all love. One of the reasons I attribute this too is because I do let the spices cook slightly longer than when I am making a curry. This had me thinking and gave me some variables to play with next time I'm cooking a curry.
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That is an excellent tip. I suppose this will vary depending on the number/size of potatoes, size of pot and power of hob jets though? I will definitely play around with those settings though :)
Sorry Goncalo, I hadn't seen your follow up questions.
Yes, everything will always depend on your own settings.
Timings will vary depending primarily on the size and type of potatoes you will use, burner size, pot size and so on, even if you use salt in the water or not! Naturally smaller potato pieces will cook faster to 'doneness' that larger ones will. Just experiment a little till you find the right settings for you.
One more question, when it starts boiling and you start your counter for 6/7 minutes, do you lower the heat from the moment they start boiling?
Yes.
I bring water to the boil (sometimes if I'm in a hurry I boil water in a kettle first and use that, but it's better to boil from cold in the pan in my opinion) once it's boiling I add the chopped, rinsed (always worth rinsing chopped potatoes in cold water to get rid of possible starch) and strained potatoes to the water. The water will then go off the boil as the cold potatoes are added. I then add a pinch of salt and turmeric and then bring them back to the boil. As soon as they start boiling I drop to a simmer, put the lid on and start timing. As I mentioned, on my hob, 10 mins is usually done, so I simmer for about 6-7 mins.
Also, regarding maris pipers, I can't easily source them here in most super markets. I suppose potatoes is something we have in different varieties around here (I think the irish are known for their potatoes) but either they exist and aren't tagged as such, or there is no tag at all, which is more often than not the case.
Ahh okay. Well Ireland is the place for potatoes!
You want a floury type rather than waxy, but not so floury they disintegrate. I find Maris Pipers and King Edwards to be pretty good all round potatoes.
Just experiment till you find a variety you like really.
I never had the methi aloo, but I'm sort of curious. The aroma from methi used to make me feel pretty sick, but I think it's grown on me. Same for cumin, so I'll try it some time -- maybe the methi gosht that has been discussed recently :)
I love Aloo Methi, it's by far my favourite vegetable dish and I always ask for it in any Indian Restaurant I go to even if they don't have it on the menu - more often than not they just nod and up it comes. It's just another of those little tests, if they've never heard of it or don't know how to cook it, it's not a good sign!
In my opinion Methi/Fenugreek is probably the most important ingredient to capturing that BIR smell and taste. Just smell some ground fenugreek and compare that smell to the smell you get from inside an Indian Takeaway bag, both the smells are very close together.
Understanding Fenugreek in all its forms, seeds, ground, dried/fresh leaves is really key to achieving BIR flavour in my opinion.
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Hi goncalo!
Regarding the Panch phoron, you could also try to mix your own, and reduce the amount of kalonji and methi seeds. Use equal parts, but just the half of that when it comes to these two ingredients. Personally, I love methi seeds (and the dried leaves, too), but too much of it can be slightly bitter for some people.
Pics look good (:
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Just smell some ground fenugreek and compare that smell to the smell you get from inside an Indian Takeaway bag, both the smells are very close together.
I believe Phil has said much the same thing and I have to disagree. It's definitely a component of the 'smell' but it's not the whole thing - not even close for me. The 'real' BIR smell, as evidenced from a takeaway bag, is far more nuanced (and better).
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The 'real' BIR smell, as evidenced from a takeaway bag, is far more nuanced (and better).
Well, it would have to be, wouldn't it ? At the very least that bag will contain essential oils from turmeric, chilli, coriander, and maybe several other spices, but the fenugreek element is most definitely there and is (I would suggest) a key element. And as I also noted before, what I found very interesting is that my local convenience store owners neither stock ground fenugreek nor do they make any use of it in their authentic Indo-Pakistani/Bangladeshi cuisine; instead they use fenugreek leaves.
** Phil.
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That is an excellent tip. I suppose this will vary depending on the number/size of potatoes, size of pot and power of hob jets though? I will definitely play around with those settings though :)
Sorry Goncalo, I hadn't seen your follow up questions.
Yes, everything will always depend on your own settings.
Timings will vary depending primarily on the size and type of potatoes you will use, burner size, pot size and so on, even if you use salt in the water or not! Naturally smaller potato pieces will cook faster to 'doneness' that larger ones will. Just experiment a little till you find the right settings for you.
One more question, when it starts boiling and you start your counter for 6/7 minutes, do you lower the heat from the moment they start boiling?
Yes.
I bring water to the boil (sometimes if I'm in a hurry I boil water in a kettle first and use that, but it's better to boil from cold in the pan in my opinion) once it's boiling I add the chopped, rinsed (always worth rinsing chopped potatoes in cold water to get rid of possible starch) and strained potatoes to the water. The water will then go off the boil as the cold potatoes are added. I then add a pinch of salt and turmeric and then bring them back to the boil. As soon as they start boiling I drop to a simmer, put the lid on and start timing. As I mentioned, on my hob, 10 mins is usually done, so I simmer for about 6-7 mins.
Also, regarding maris pipers, I can't easily source them here in most super markets. I suppose potatoes is something we have in different varieties around here (I think the irish are known for their potatoes) but either they exist and aren't tagged as such, or there is no tag at all, which is more often than not the case.
Ahh okay. Well Ireland is the place for potatoes!
You want a floury type rather than waxy, but not so floury they disintegrate. I find Maris Pipers and King Edwards to be pretty good all round potatoes.
Just experiment till you find a variety you like really.
I never had the methi aloo, but I'm sort of curious. The aroma from methi used to make me feel pretty sick, but I think it's grown on me. Same for cumin, so I'll try it some time -- maybe the methi gosht that has been discussed recently :)
I love Aloo Methi, it's by far my favourite vegetable dish and I always ask for it in any Indian Restaurant I go to even if they don't have it on the menu - more often than not they just nod and up it comes. It's just another of those little tests, if they've never heard of it or don't know how to cook it, it's not a good sign!
In my opinion Methi/Fenugreek is probably the most important ingredient to capturing that BIR smell and taste. Just smell some ground fenugreek and compare that smell to the smell you get from inside an Indian Takeaway bag, both the smells are very close together.
Understanding Fenugreek in all its forms, seeds, ground, dried/fresh leaves is really key to achieving BIR flavour in my opinion.
Thanks for the lengthy reply spicey! I have already seen your methi aloo recipe, so the next thing is to give it a try. I finally found a way to order 10kg bags of maris pipers, but I've still fairly large supply by now.
Hi goncalo!
Regarding the Panch phoron, you could also try to mix your own, and reduce the amount of kalonji and methi seeds. Use equal parts, but just the half of that when it comes to these two ingredients. Personally, I love methi seeds (and the dried leaves, too), but too much of it can be slightly bitter for some people.
Pics look good (:
Thanks chonk. Could you just clarify why you recommended reducing the amount of kalonji? I think I used some of these in my naan dough and I did enjoy their taste, I could feel typical naan taste when adding them to the dough. So far I've been using east end panch phoron and it's decent, but I agree, it does tend towards the bitterness a little.
Thanks for clarifying! :)
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Hi goncalo!
Hi goncalo!
Regarding the Panch phoron, you could also try to mix your own, and reduce the amount of kalonji and methi seeds. Use equal parts, but just the half of that when it comes to these two ingredients. Personally, I love methi seeds (and the dried leaves, too), but too much of it can be slightly bitter for some people.
Pics look good (:
Thanks chonk. Could you just clarify why you recommended reducing the amount of kalonji? I think I used some of these in my naan dough and I did enjoy their taste, I could feel typical naan taste when adding them to the dough. So far I've been using east end panch phoron and it's decent, but I agree, it does tend towards the bitterness a little.
Thanks for clarifying! :)
Love my naans with kalonji, too! (:
Kalonji seeds can taste slightly bitter too, so reducing their amount would adjust that (together with methi seeds) You could just reduce the methi seeds, and check out if that taste suits you. It comes down to personal preference, and some experiments, I guess (: Got this "recipe" from a book about traditional, punjabi family recipes (equal parts, but just the half of methi and kalonji seeds). Panch phoron is pretty easy to make right on the spot, and also in minimal amounts, so you could try to find your taste someday (:
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Thanks for the lengthy reply spicey! I have already seen your methi aloo recipe, so the next thing is to give it a try. I finally found a way to order 10kg bags of maris pipers, but I've still fairly large supply by now.
Let me know how you get on with the Aloo Methi and I'm glad to hear you were able to source some Maris Piper Potatoes, I think you'll notice the difference in flavour and texture when cooking with them. Just make sure you store them in a nice cool, dark, dry place.
Could you just clarify why you recommended reducing the amount of kalonji? I think I used some of these in my naan dough and I did enjoy their taste, I could feel typical naan taste when adding them to the dough. So far I've been using east end panch phoron and it's decent, but I agree, it does tend towards the bitterness a little.
I think Chonk is assuming that you're mixing and grinding your own Panch Phoran from whole seeds, hence his suggestion that you might want to reduce the Kalonji and Fenugreek seeds in the mix. But it seems from what you've said here that you're using pre-ground East End brand Panch Phoran, so I can see why you might be confused at his suggestion of reducing the Kalonji seed component.
I would strongly endorse and support Chonk's suggestion of perhaps considering grinding your own Panch Phoran from whole seeds as you can then have full control over the resulting mixture of flavours.
I'm sure Chonk or myself can give you a Panch Phoran seed mixture starting point.
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I would strongly endorse and support Chonk's suggestion of perhaps considering grinding your own Panch Phoran from whole seeds as you can then have full control over the resulting mixture of flavours.
Spicey, I have been using panch phoran for a considerable time, and have never used it or even encountered it, in ground form, nor have I previously seen any suggestion it should be used that way; in what dishes would you use it ground rather than whole ?
** Phil.
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Spicey, I have been using panch phoran for a considerable time, and have never used it or even encountered it, in ground form, nor have I previously seen any suggestion it should be used that way; in what dishes would you use it ground rather than whole ?
Phil
Panch Phoran is simply a name given to a five spice mix, generally brown mustard seeds, kalonji, cumin, fennel and fenugreek it can be used in whole spice form (as you've been using) at the start of the dish or in ground form either as part of a masala to be fried at the beginning or later in the dish.
It's quite similar to Garam Masala in this sense, which can also be used in whole spice form (bay leaves, green cardamons, cassia, cloves and peppercorns) or as a ground mix.
There are no real hard and fast rules for using spices in cookery as after all we're only extracting the spice essential oils as flavouring components and these can come from spices in ground or whole form.
What you do and how you do it is entirely up to the individual, that's the beauty of Indian cookery.
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The one pack I have, is actually in seeds, like Phil, I too had never heard of ground panch phoron, at the end of the day, it's just another masala, thanks for the clarifications chonk and spicey!
I've just ordered a krups grinder to start grinding whole spices and making masalas that taste better than the ones from east-end/heera/natco/trs/rajah/etc.. :)
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Panch Phoran is simply a name given to a five spice mix, generally brown mustard seeds, kalonji, cumin, fennel and fenugreek it can be used in whole spice form (as you've been using) at the start of the dish or in ground form either as part of a masala to be fried at the beginning or later in the dish.
It's quite similar to Garam Masala in this sense, which can also be used in whole spice form (bay leaves, green cardamons, cassia, cloves and peppercorns) or as a ground mix.
Yes, I have encountered garam masala being used in both forms, but never panch phoran, so I was interested to learn in which dishes you would advocate its use in ground form.
** Phil.
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It has always been my understanding that Panch Phoran is used only as a whole seed mix and never ground with the ingredients always staying the same. Curious, I have just Googled this and came across several references suggesting the same, though the following mentions the mustard seed being replaced.
Here's an article on it: http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-08-26/recipes/31312472_1_paanch-fenugreek-mustard (http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-08-26/recipes/31312472_1_paanch-fenugreek-mustard)
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...I have encountered garam masala being used in both forms, but never panch phoran, so I was interested to learn in which dishes you would advocate its use in ground form.
** Phil.
You'll find it in ground form as part of some generic curry powders Phil, along with the usual coriander, cumin, turmeric etc. Although it won't be called panch phoran then, it's just part of the mix.
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Yes, I have encountered garam masala being used in both forms, but never panch phoran, so I was interested to learn in which dishes you would advocate its use in ground form.
I don't generally use Panch Phoran or any other whole spice seed mixes but when I do the whole seeds would be fried in oil, left to cool and ground up in a pestle and mortar and used as a paste tempering for a Dal.
As you know, I don't generally hold to the opinion that this name has to mean this or that, Panch Phoran to me just means a five spice mix, what those spices are and how you use them is up to the individual to decide as and when.
This is supported by the view that you'll struggle to find two people who'll even agree on what whole spices should be in Garam Masala or Panch Phoran for that matter.
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I made a korma for myself tonight. I really enjoy my chicken kormas (nothing non-standard), more than the ones I used to get from the BIRs themselves and I already was a huge fan of kormas then. It's the single dish I feel the most competent with.
(http://i.imgur.com/HEJQWrCl.jpg)
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It looks quite brown to the more blonde looking Korma I have enjoyed since the 80's. What recipe did you follow?
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Just the photo Malc.
Looks a good smooth saucy Korma, I've seen a lot worse in my time.
Korma, Madras, CTM, still up there in the top ten curries sold.
I had a Makoni for a change the other night and it looked just like your Korma Gongalo.
curry on ;)
Chewy
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It looks quite brown to the more blonde looking Korma I have enjoyed since the 80's. What recipe did you follow?
Besides what chewy said, other possible reasons include: the chicken stock which was a little burned and not enough cream.
I followed my own concoction, which is itself based off of CA's/Julians recipe. I used a mixture of both creamed coconut block, coconut flower and almond powder, cooking cream and viceroy' brasserie pre-cooked chicken + SnS Saffron base. This is the kind of dish in which I taste several times throughout until I feel I am getting to the right consistency/flavor out of.
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I made a korma for myself tonight.
Looks good to me Goncalo, I think the photo perhaps makes it look darker than it should be, but you know me, I don't care too much about the colour of things - it's what it tastes like that matters.
I rarely to never make Korma, or Chicken Tikka Masala I'm just not really into creamy mild dishes like those, I like mine with a bit of welly to them. Not searingly Phall like hot, but around Madras strength is about right for me.
But your Korma looks the business and plain boiled rice very nice as well.
I think you're knocking out some pretty decent dishes in the short time you've been here.
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(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/d426a21053bf060f07b1b8f151914c52.jpg)
Just the photo Malc.
Your right Mike and looks different again on my monitor here at work.
...other possible reasons include: the chicken stock which was a little burned and not enough cream.
When you say chicken stock, is this from the pre-cooked chicken?
I played around with Korma when I first started on the site. Had some fairly good results but could never quite get the right type of sweetness and thick consistency that I was use to. Korma was the only dish I had in the early years of my curry experiences. I still enjoy a good one on rare occasions but sadly, most outlets around me these days produce very thin pale dishes that are far too sweet. Funny enough, I used the Korma and the Sag Aloo as a measure of a restaurants quality.
Got any left over, it's making me hungry! :)
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When you say chicken stock, is this from the pre-cooked chicken?
Yes, and maybe stock isn't the exact word, but it's the "debris" sticking to the chicken made up of oil/onion/whole spices. As I didn't flip the chicken enough times, a part of it was mildly darker on the bottom, but it tasted almost like toffee.
I played around with Korma when I first started on the site. Had some fairly good results but could never quite get the right type of sweetness and thick consistency that I was use to. Korma was the only dish I had in the early years of my curry experiences. I still enjoy a good one on rare occasions but sadly, most outlets around me these days produce very thin pale dishes that are far too sweet. Funny enough, I used the Korma and the Sag Aloo as a measure of a restaurants quality.
I can understand. Korma was by far the dish I longed to get right, but it only comes to prove that once you overcome something that used to feel complicated, you move on to something else. I have not yet tackled the perfect Jalfrezi, but I'm on its track.
Although this is always subjective, this korma had the perfect consistency as far as I'm concerned, which was somewhere between the texture of cream and the yogurt, closer to the former though. I presume you already been thru the recommendations of using condensed milk (carnation) ? I have a tin at home but haven't gone about trying it yet, but I think chewy claimed it to be the way to get true 80s bir korma.
I think I only liked kormas from restaurants a handful of times. They'd always be a bit too bland. I also recommend you to try adding banana slices in the last 1-2 minutes of cooking, as it adds some sort of sweetness too.
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I rarely to never make Korma, or Chicken Tikka Masala I'm just not really into creamy mild dishes like those, I like mine with a bit of welly to them. Not searingly Phall like hot, but around Madras strength is about right for me.
I'm not a regular creamy curry fan, but the missus is which is one of the main reasons why I make kormas at least once in every batch of base. I am more keen on jalfrezi/madras type of dishes these days, but lately I've been a little tired of my lack of progress and not being able to put my finger on what's wrong. I need to book a flight over to UK to try and talk with some TAs and re-visit the food.
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tl;dr: Made one of the best curries today!
Ok, so my girlfriend was studying with a friend when I arrived from work and that seemed like the perfect excuse to make a curry for all of us (not like I need any excuses, but to add some storyteller seasoning to the story) - I precooked a bunch of breasts using viceroy's method with a slight twist: I've added lemon to the chicken to help tenderize it. I don't know whether this makes the difference with the viceroy's method to precook chicken, but it's a practice I've developed from long ago, as soon as I buy some chicken, I slice the breasts (I only eat breast), rinse and then squeeze half a lemon (depending on quantity) on top and let it sit until needed. Anyways, last time this friend was around, I offered to make a curry, a chicken korma, but as I didn't have space to precook chicken on the stove top, I followed a method that chewy recommended, to precook the chicken using olive oil in the oven. I just didn't realize immediately that he meant it when using a whole chicken, in which case I would expect to have made a difference because of the chicken fats and what not and so my oven-precooked-chicken had a huge bite (i.e rubbery) to it and olive flavor, which tainted the chicken korma I made then. I had to eat it myself and regretted it. My girlfriend's friend offered some praise on the food, but I think she was being kind. My girlfriend who isn't very picky agreed then that it wasn't the best korma she's ever had from the ones made I made so far. So today I asked her friend what the curries she used to have when she lived in UK, she said "I can't think of the names, other than korma.." so I asked, what heat level she liked and she said 3/10 and I asked whether she'd go for a bhuna, dhansak, dopiaza..etc in the hopes to find out what she used to get, she said "Uh, I can't think of the names, sorry. It was back in 86-89!" that told me 2 things, she doesn't eat a lot of indian, but that she had (judging from what I hear around this forum, not from personal experience) experienced the best time of BIR food and as such, impressing her would probably be quite hard.
(http://images.wikia.com/adventuretimewithfinnandjake/images/a/a7/Challenge_accepted.jpg)
As she couldn't tell me a dish name I said, I'm going cook a chicken ceylon, seeing as she likes her kormas and enjoys a bit of heat. I used stephen lindsay's fail-proof recipe, with a few small changes, namely:
1. Used ktc pure coconut oil instead of my standard veg oil, which I've ran out of while pre-cooking.
2. Used SnS Saffron' base
3. I fried some onion.
4. I used 1/2 tbsp of deggi mirch (MDH)
5. I used 1 tsp of east-end mild madras curry powder (my rahah tin ran out and I just bought this one) and 1 tsp of BE, which is my current mix spice.
6. I watered town my tom puree further and my base a little, which meant longer reduction time.
The resultant curry was mild/medium-heat, with a mild coconut and madras-esque BIR curry smell with a bit of a tangyness from the lemon, but everything in the right balance, that kinda balance that our favorite takeaways seem to nail nearly every time. If only I had added less coconut, it would taste like my favorite bhuna! On top of that, my girlfriend still had 2 portions from yesterday's korma (or 1 portion if you eat like me) and my girlfriend ran across to our local takeaway and picked up 2 peshawari naans and pilau rice.
The reaction when she started eating (she didn't wait for me or my girlfriend to be ready to eat) was "Wow", she said "This is the best curry I've ever had in Ireland, potentially one of the best I've ever had." and I could tell by the way she was eating how satisfied she was and the praise didn't stop there. She had some of yesterdays korma and she asked me if my girlfriend had bought it in the takeaway just now as by her standards it was just perfect.
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpeq0hIbTS1qgtj4p.jpg)
For me, it was without a doubt my best curry yet and I judge myself very very heavily. I can say that, if I understand what worked right today and be able to make it repeatable, it may very well move my cooking to my end goal or close enough. I'm quite confident that the point 5 and 6 contributed highly, but viceroy's precooking method is a big winner too. The texture always comes out phenomenal and on that note, I would like to thank every single one of you for the endless amounts of help/advice and motivation as well as recipes.
(http://images3.cafepress.com/image/56229883_150x150.png) cheers!
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Today's lunch: Chicken Vindaloo
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/528336_4801488751245_1401603719_n.jpg)
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That does look nice, Goncalo, but the rice looks "odd"; the grains look unusually small, and there is a suggestion of greasiness. Can you tell us more about it ?
** Phil.
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That does look nice, Goncalo, but the rice looks "odd"; the grains look unusually small, and there is a suggestion of greasiness. Can you tell us more about it ?
** Phil.
Thanks Phil! The rice is left over from yesterday meal and it was bought from a takeaway (see previous post) and so I cannot tell you much about how it was cooked. It was certainly fried, judging from the texture. The added greasiness may have been due to the spiced oil I added on top. I also have a feeling these guys use a Julian-like approach to making rice as on one occasion when I went to pick up a curry at the TA, I saw the rice package coming from the microwaves.
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Aha: in that case, you are completely exonerated :) So now we've got the rice out of the way, tell us more about the Vindaloo, which looks excellent to my untrained eye ...
** Phil (relaxing after a nice dinner of McSween's haggis and Kentish champ).
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The vindaloo is not one dish I generally cook. It was very good, but I wouldn't say it was "spot-on".
I used Julian's recipe, with personal modifications:
Mix:
- 1 tsp of mild madras (East End)
- 2 tsp BE spice mix,
- 2 tsp of deggi mirch (MDH)
- 1/3 tsp of extra hot chilli
- 1 tbsp, instead of half of a lime and some lime zest (I didn't read the book recently and I thought 1 tbsp was about enough without being too overpowering)
- spiced oil
Because I had 1/4 of an onion already chopped, I used it in the frying stage, though I reckon it's not part of a vindaloo.
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Tonight's tea: Chicken Jalfrezi
I'm on a curry high!
(http://i.imgur.com/kslQOtTl.jpg)
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Goan Chilli Chicken
This is a house special from one of my favorite restaurants in Cambridge. Very tasty and it's my first time trying to crack it. It's essential flavours are from the green chillies and roasted garlic. I'm quite happy with the result, I'm just not sure whether yellow mustard seeds would be preferred instead of brown, which I used today simply because I've never used them before. Pictures are fuzzy, this is the best I could find in my cellphone (click to embiggen.)
(http://i.imgur.com/G318tAFl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/G318tAF.jpg)
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Although this is always subjective, this korma had the perfect consistency as far as I'm concerned, which was somewhere between the texture of cream and the yogurt, closer to the former though. I presume you already been thru the recommendations of using condensed milk (carnation) ? I have a tin at home but haven't gone about trying it yet, but I think chewy claimed it to be the way to get true 80s bir korma.
Hi Goncalo, sorry for the late reply. In terms of consistency, the korma sauce I remember would have a similar consistency to that of the vindaloo you posted, though it's hard to say for sure. I did once see this type of korma made some years ago and they used Carnation, which I had always remembered to be Evaporated and not Condensed, my memory is vague and I couldn't say for sure.
Though I do remember them explaining they use Carnation in place of the single cream for TA orders, which underlines the Carnation Milk being evaporated. They didn't use coconut block either, just reliant on coconut flour and ground almond.
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Yes Axe, unlike others have said, I only know Carnation "evaporated" milk being
used instead of cream back in the day, in Bangladeshi BIR's.
Give my Korma recipe a try Gongalo, it will probably work for you.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,6024.msg59916.html#msg59916 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,6024.msg59916.html#msg59916)
watch it here Chewy's Korma (https://vimeo.com/27542257)
On your Goan Chilli Chicken, can you share the recipe, interesting to see what makes it actually "Goan". ;)
cheers Chewy
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Give my Korma recipe a try Gongalo, it will probably work for you.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,6024.msg59916.html#msg59916 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,6024.msg59916.html#msg59916)
watch it here Chewy's Korma (https://vimeo.com/27542257)
I'm quite happy with my korma, but I'll give yours try in my next batch of base, thanks chewy!
On your Goan Chilli Chicken, can you share the recipe, interesting to see what makes it actually "Goan". ;)
cheers Chewy
I'll write it down tomorrow, but the difference is essentially the use of black cummin seeds, brown mustard seeds during the tarka, garlic and green finger chillies. Stir-fry to coat and finished with a few ladles of sauce til reduced.
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Chicken Bhuna
I've made yet another batch of Saffron's/SnS base sauce and in a hurry made a bhuna. I've par-fried some onion and peppers in a separate pan until the edges start to brown and then thrown into the main pan with chicken.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/422089_4865940722504_338639300_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/935391_4865940082488_194767247_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/544103_4865940282493_1912892752_n.jpg)
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That looks a nice curry, Goncalo, but for me at least (an "old-school" curry man), the dish is far too wet to be a bhuna as I know the dish. The bhunas that I used to eat and love were dry(ish) dishes, no wetter than a good mushroom bhaji, and were certainly not swimming in sauce as yours is. The colour looks right, though, so I would be interested to see a future version in which you used no more than (say 15% of the sauce that you used to make this one, and in which you focussed on cooking the dish in oil and the meat's own juices rather than in a base.
** Phil.
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I intentionally added an extra ladle (generally would add only 1.5 and reduce until it clings around the meat) as the missus likes it saucy. After a long day cooking, chopping, precooking, etc. when you are done blending/simmering the base it's already late enough at night that food does not have to be perfect, it just has to be! :)
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Understood !
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My missus loves plenty of sauce too and whilst I always try to make sure she gets plenty ;) she would actually devour a plate of rice and sauce alone if there was no meat in it.
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Bombay Aloo + Chicken Shatkora using Mouchak base
The picture quality and my cheffing abbilities are crap an does not make justice to the actual dish. Easily among the top 2 or 3 of my best curries ever and this is not to say I made the best yet, but quite sure a huge improvement. I am certainly sold on the mouchak base and mix powder (Although, as the actual recipe has the "akhni water" in a separate comment, I didn't write that to paper before going to the kitchen and did not do. Next time I'll try with some garam masala.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/946716_4970256970345_2114622711_n.jpg)
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Thought I'd prepare tomorrow's lunch ahead of time and re-done the same curry, this time with fresh chillies.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/417803_4970874905793_1907771419_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/922852_4970874745789_1718787766_n.jpg)
I also added 2 slices of shatkora instead of just one.