Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: Kashmiri Bob on September 07, 2013, 10:50 AM
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Been thinking for a while to re-visit the balti. Never really got there last time. Anyway, figured the best thing to do was get a couple of takeaways in, to remind myself of the taste. Went with these two well-known Birmingham balti houses:
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/b15d595226fae5dee840b9aad5849987.jpg)
Thought a few pics of the dishes would be nice, for anyone else still on the balti quest.
Adil first. Not been here before. Apparently, this is where it all began.
Balti chicken (requested madras hot)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/816078b82e8485768149c04b42edb517.jpg)
In a very hot balti dish. Remember, you have to eat a balti with a naan.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/21e9d4386697be158dba67d7ab9d21bf.jpg)
It's so difficult to describe the taste and texture of a balti. This was certainly gorgeous. Very aromatic. The only thing I could really pick out was the delicate use of ground coriander, but there seemed to be myriads of other flavours. As can be seen in the pics the chicken has been cut lengthways, into strips. I'd say this was fresh as opposed to pre-cooked. I'll be going back to this place. Next time I'll try to do a review for the Highly Recommended section. The most expensive dish of the night.
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I'm going to book a flight into birmingham for the next month to come for a weekend to get a good taste of curry. How far would these 2 places be from the airport (ryanair) Rob?
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Rob, we could do with a good couple of Balti recipes when you got the time ;)
both look really excellent, pity I live down south.
Les
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Yes, could do with a few myself Les. Bloomin' tricky one is the balti. I think I was sort of getting somewhere with it once, but the real deal is in a different league. I recall it is very easy (a doddle in fact) to over spice a balti and ruin it.
The Kushi cooking course is running again and I've booked in. Last time I tried it was cancelled due to atrocious weather. Just a half-day course this time. I hope there's a pan of base gravy made, because I am going to help myself to some. There will be no stopping me!
About 20 minutes goncalo. Aren't you supposed to be on holiday in the sunshine somewhere nice? Stop drooling over curry pics and get the drinks in by the pool! 8)
Rob :)
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Bengali Bob they look awesome
best, Rich
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Sadly, today is a rainy day in the sunny spain. although It's upwards of 19C, but quite dreary.. I have one more day left til back to dreary ole ireland!
:)
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Yes, could do with a few myself Les. Bloomin' tricky one is the balti.
Rob :)
I know Rob, I've tried many a time to replicate my local T/a, But to no avail sorry to say, There balti's are the best I've ever tasted, But the chef is a stubborn old git, and shares no info with anybody. Can't blame him really, It's his living.The Chicken Tikka Jhal-Frezi is to die for.
http://www.bombaybalti.co.uk/order.php (http://www.bombaybalti.co.uk/order.php)
Les
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Lovely pix Bob
To me the Balti is the Holy Grail of curry making. I have only got close once and as usual this was by error rather than judgement, and when I tried to recreate the dish the next day it was absolute pants...as usual.
I live the other side of Brum and always use the same bir because it is consistently good for my fave dish - chicken tikka balti. Only had one bad one in 15 years. Its called The Jahed in Wylde Green Sutton Coldfield (www.jahed.co.uk/ (http://www.jahed.co.uk/)). Worth checking out if you are over this side.
Cheers Mick
Regards
Mick
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Lovely pix Bob
To me the Balti is the Holy Grail of curry making. I have only got close once and as usual this was by error rather than judgement, and when I tried to recreate the dish the next day it was absolute pants...as usual.
I live the other side of Brum and always use the same bir because it is consistently good for my fave dish - chicken tikka balti. Only had one bad one in 15 years. Its called The Jahed in Wylde Green Sutton Coldfield (www.jahed.co.uk/ (http://www.jahed.co.uk/)). Worth checking out if you are over this side.
Cheers Mick
Regards
Mick
Will do Mick. Thanks for the recommendation. Over that way quite often. Have a friend in Warmley, which I think is not too far off. Do love a good balti. Best one I ever had was at a place near Aston Uni. It's not there any more. When I was waiting for my TA at the Adil the lads there remembered the place, and reckoned what I actually had was not a balti, but a karahi. It was ultra dry, almost a paste, loaded with caramelised garlic, onion, and green chilli. Absolutely awesome. Balti are karahi are now top of my agenda.
Rob :)
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Just been reading my own blurb from when I made the Kushi base.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,11545.msg89039.html#msg89039 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,11545.msg89039.html#msg89039)
I was getting there. The texture was very close, but the taste? Something was missing. Couldn't put my finger on it, but whatever it was it lifted the Birmingham Balti to dizzy heights. I think I know what it is now. Almost certain. Only problem now is how to make it.
Rob :)
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Just been reading my own blurb from when I made the Kushi base.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,11545.msg89039.html#msg89039 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,11545.msg89039.html#msg89039)
I was getting there. The texture was very close, but the taste? Something was missing. Couldn't put my finger on it, but whatever it was it lifted the Birmingham Balti to dizzy heights. I think I know what it is now. Almost certain. Only problem now is how to make it.
Rob :)
Look forward to reading about it Bob.Just hope it has nothing to do with Mrs Patak or thats another recipe in the bin (for me anyhow)
Rgds Mick ::)
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We may have to wait for the e-book Mick :D
les
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Look forward to reading about it Bob.Just hope it has nothing to do with Mrs Patak or thats another recipe in the bin (for me anyhow)
Rgds Mick ::)
No Pataks Mick. Here's the deal.
I've been back to the Adil. In search of that dry balti/karahi I've been gassing on about. This time, I ordered a karahi chicken (requested extra dry) and, for the good lady, a balti chicken (as it comes, not madras hot). Last time I also ordered a chilli bhaji starter. Funny little starter. Whole bullet chillies, deep fried in batter. You get 5 or 6 per portion. I was offered mint or chilli dip to go with it. I picked the mint. Very tasty. So this time I ordered them again, and happily got both dips thrown in. Also bough a couple of naans. There's several well known Pakistani karahi places on Ladypool Road, so on the way back to the car I popped into one for a nosey. Plenty of karahi dishes on display here, but none appeared anything like what I was looking for, so I didn't buy any. I was of course hoping my karahi from the Adil would be the answer to my prayers. I couldn't resist some tandoori lamb chops though. I digress. Got this lot at about 1.00 pm. Another nice thing about the Adil is that it's open from lunchtime Saturdays. Rather pleased with myself on the way home. I'm still missing my hob desperately, but lot's of food ready for the evening. Just needing a warm-up. Balti/karahi night. Sorted!
At home later the missus needed some convincing that her balti was going to be spot on. She likes my curries, but anything remotely sub-standard/iffy from a TA/restaurant will be rejected, point blank. Very fussy. Very fussy indeed. I was confident she would like the Adil balti though. I'd had a sneaky taste of it. Absolutely gorgeous. I marvelled at those amazing balti aromas again. How do they do it I wondered. Also noted that this balti chicken was truly identical in taste and texture to the one I had the other week, except for the extra heat I had requested. Consistency is also wonderful thing.
Anyway, evening came and I set about warming up the lamb chops (for myself). Also started on the chilli bhaji-ettes. Spikey little fellows, so I dunked them one by one into the mint dip. Nice dip, lots of mint, quite a bit of chilli too. One taste of the lamb chops and they went straight in the bin. Horrible, synthetic smoky flavouring, of the type encountered in supermarket ready-made barbecue meals. Thank goodness I had the chilli bhaji to fall back on, otherwise the evening would have been off to a really bad start. I transferred the balti chicken and karahi into proper foil TA containers, for gentle re-heating in the oven. I don't really like plastic TA containers. There's always temptation to re-heat in the micro, which is a risky business. A chef I know reckons some curries in plastic containers can also "leak" their water into the gravy. Personally, I think curries just taste better in foil containers, compared to plastic.
One look at the karahi served and it was obviously not what I had hoped. Superb dish though. I reckon freshly cooked from scratch. Lots of whole spices with emphasis on cumin. Only regret was that I didn't go with the on-the-bone option for the dish. The good lady sampled her balti and gave it the big thumbs-up. "Why don't you make a curry like this?", she said. I said nothing, and sulked. She noticed one thing that I missed last time. Some of the chicken strips were thigh meat and not breast. She doesn't like dark meat as a rule, but felt is worked brilliantly in terms of overall flavour here. Certainly one idea to try at home
So that was it. Great food overall. But this is where it got interesting. As I was tidying up I spotted one bhaji-ette remaining. All the mint dip had gone, so I opened the previously untouched chilli dip, and stuck it in this. Hmm. Hot stuff. Nice. Hang on a minute. What's this? My head snapped back in total bewilderment. You have GOT to be joking! I cried out. NO WAY! All, and I mean all, of the balti aromatics were right there, in abundance, in the bloomin' chilli dip! The penny dropped. This was a fairly generic shop-bought chilli sauce, to which something had been added, and that something is almost certainly a form of GM. No ordinary GM mind. This is special GM, specific to the balti. The aromas were blindingly obvious, even the florals. I chuckled when I was also able to pick out that subtle flavour of coriander seed, as evident in the balti I mentioned the other week.
I expect this GM, if that is what it is, is used both to make the mix powder, and added late in cooking. I also think it will be tricky to get a balti chef to reveal the recipe for this ingredient. Can't blame them really. The secret of the Birmingham Balti? Changed for each restaurant, to give a unique "signature", but still the definitive real-deal balti taste. I'd give my right arm for that recipe. With this, a bit more work on the texture, and sweetness, I reckon it would be straightforward to nail the balti, once and for all.
I am just trying to remember how many Cobras I had that night. Not too many, if I remember correctly.
Rob :)
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Brilliant write-up, Rob, and equally brilliant detective work. If the good Dr Watson is planning to retire in the near future, I would strongly recommend you apply to Mr Holmes for the vacancy.
** Phil.
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Brilliant write-up, Rob, and equally brilliant detective work. If the good Dr Watson is planning to retire in the near future, I would strongly recommend you apply to Mr Holmes for the vacancy.
** Phil.
Yup. It's a major balti breakthrough Phil. Sorry for all the typos; it must be the excitement. Been staring at the bit of chilli dip I have left over all day, and you can actually see that there's been a coarse powder sprinkled into it. Tantalisingly close to the balti grail, just out of reach. Homing in on it though. Coriander seed, almost certainly roasted, is a definite. A standard addition to a GM. But there's also kewra water in the dip; no doubt about it. It's faint, but it's there. Other things I can't place. My nose is completely worn out. Gave the pot to the good lady for a quick whiff, and she confirmed that, yes, it's definitely the balti aromas.
Rob :)
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Hi Rob
It's really weird about Balti around here, but it's nearly off the menu altogether these days.
Used to have its own section on menus, now its just lumped in with the classic dishes.
Would be good if you could get the original Pakistani version sussed out. 8)
In the 80's when it arrived here, I remember a new trendy restaurant (at the time) called Zolza and
they served the Balti as I remember in the big Balti dish with Naan.
It was the only curry with whole spices Bay Leaf, Cassia and a dried Red chilli. plus the Chicken was cooked fresh.
If your latest GM doesn't taste like Pataks Balti Paste, get yourself a box of MANGAL Balti Masala powder
it could be close, you never know. ;)
cheers Chewy
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Bob
Firstly my apologies to you for not replying further. A truly inspirational discovery. It certainly inspires me on again in the search for one of Birminghams finest inventions - The Balti. Still as popular as ever around here. Your discovery just ticks so many boxes and answers sheds full of questions. Excellent work. You are The Man lol
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I'm picking up faint notes of aniseed now. Anyone remember this stuff? By crikey there are similarities.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/8e7d117d8dcde480a6778ca25608bfe1.jpg)
Just thinking of a title for my e-book.
Rob :)
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Just thinking of a title for my e-book.
Well, if you are going to work with Mr Holmes in future, perhaps something along the lines of "The mysterious case of the tindaloo that didn't burn in the night" ...
** Phil.
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I'll certainly try the Mangal balti masala Chewy. The Balti Triangle dishes are a million miles away from Patak's balti paste. I've tried it and it went straight in the bin. Not to say a good "curry" can't be made using it. The taste here though is completely different. it's light, somehow floral, and very fragrant; difficult to describe. Just been perusing Authentic Balti Curry and, perhaps unsurprisingly, there is no recipe for the GM in the mix powder.
http://www.balti-birmingham.co.uk/about-balti/bpost-on-the-balti (http://www.balti-birmingham.co.uk/about-balti/bpost-on-the-balti)
Next stop. Al Frash.
Rob :)
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East End do a Balti Masala too, have you tried that one Bob?
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Did you see the link i posted of ade edmondson in adils making a balti Rob?
The video has gone now, but there was a lot more spicing than your average curry's worth of mixed powder.
Mostly tandoori masala by the looks and the GM looked more of a courser grind.
I wrote down the recipe as i saw it.
2 chefspoons spiced oil
3 green chillies
1 chefspoon chopped fresh tomatoes
1 tbsp g/g paste
2 tbsp chopped fresh green pepper
1 portion pre-cooked meat
1 tsp chilli powder
1 tsp crushed chillies
1 tbsp tandoori masala powder
1/2 tsp garam masala
1 tsp methi
1 large ladel gravy
handful fresh coriander
Cheers, Frank. :)
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I forgot I had these two, and apologies that I can't remember where they are from and who the recipes belong to.
BALTI MASALA SPICE MIX
Yield: 12 servings
4 tb Coriander seeds
2 tb White cumin seeds
2 2-inch pieces Cassia bark
1 ts Fennel seeds
2 ts Black mustard seeds
4 Cloves
1/2 ts Wild onion seeds
1/2 ts Fenugreek seeds
1 ts Dry fenugreek leaves
10 Dry curry leaves
1 ts Green cardamom seeds
1/2 ts Lovage seeds
This is the basic spice mix for making Balti masala paste. It can
also be used dry, while cooking.
Roast, cool and grind the whole spices. Mix with the ground ones, and
store tightly covered (a recycled spice bottle is ideal).
BALTI MASALA PASTE
Yield: 8 servings
1 Recipe Balti masala spice
6 fl Vinegar (spiced or plain, as
-you prefer)
6 fl Vegetable oil (sunflower or
-peanut)
A paste which, like Balti sauce, appears repeatedly in Balti recipes.
Place the ground spices in a bowl. Add vinegar, and water sufficient
to make a paste. Let stand 10-15 minutes.
Heat the oil in a wok. Add the paste. Stir-fry until the water
content is cooked out (about 3-5 minutes) and the paste thickens and
begins to bubble with the same kind of boiling noise that oatmeal
makes. Remove from heat.
Bottle while hot in boiled jars. When in the bottle, add heated oil
to top off, seal, and store.
INGREDIENTS FOR BALTI MASALA
Makes about 200g ( Or enough for 20 single servings)
3 Tablespoons coriander seeds
3 Tablespoons white cumin seeds
1 six inch piece of cinnamon broken into pieces
1 Tablespoon black peppercorns
1 Tablespoon fennel seeds
1 Tablespoon black mustard seeds
The seeds of six black cardamom pods (4 black 3 Green)
1 Tablespoon fenugreek seeds
1 teaspoon onion seeds
10 cloves
1 Tablespoon dried fenugreek leaves
1 Tablespoon dried mint leaves
30 dried curry leaves
7 bay leaves
2 Tablespoons turmeric
2 Tablespoon ground garlic powder
2 Tablespoons ground ginger powder
1 Tablespoon ground red chilli powder
1 Tablespoon Premium Curry Powder
1/2 Tablespoon Tandoori Masala powder
1/2 Tablespoon All Purpose Seasoning
Vinegar and vegetable oil
Method
Place the seeds, cloves, cinnamon and peppercorns in a dry frying pan and dry fry over medium heat until the spices begin to smoke.
Place these spices along with all the leaves in a spice grinder or pestle and mortar and grind to a fine powder.
Add the rest of the ground spices and mix well.
to make a balti masala paste for use in balti curries
Mix one heaping tablespoon of balti masala powder with two tablespoons of vinegar and two tablespoons of vegetable oil to form a paste.
To be honest, I don
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Cheers guys. Still waiting for the Kushi cooking course. We'll be doing several balti dishes apparently. Looking forward to giving Ali there a good grilling on the ingredients and stuff.
Rob :)
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Next stop. Al Frash.
Rob :)
Ive never been there but a few of my mates have and it comes highly recommended. Looking forward to reading your feedback on the place
Regards
Mick
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Hoping to get over there later today Mick. Balti chicken again. Pics and blurb to follow.
Rob :)
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Great thread Rob.
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May be on to something here. Check this one out:
Balti garam masala
4 1/2 tablespoons coriander seeds
2 1/2 tablespoons cumin seeds
5 teaspoons aniseed
5 strips cassia bark (substitute cinnamon)
1 1/2 tablespoons green cardamom seeds
1 tablespoon cloves
1 1/2 teaspoons dried mint leaves
4-6 bay leaves
1 tablespoon dry rose petals (optional)
1 teaspoon saffron (optional)
http://www.indiancurryrecipes.com/2010/05/balti-garam-masala-a-balti-variation-of-garam-masala/ (http://www.indiancurryrecipes.com/2010/05/balti-garam-masala-a-balti-variation-of-garam-masala/)
Rob :)
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A bit of a stupid question here Bob, But how long a piece of cassia bark, The cassia I have is about 4"long, which sounds a bit to much to put in 5 pieces.
Les
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A bit of a stupid question here Bob, But how long a piece of cassia bark, The cassia I have is about 4"long, which sounds a bit to much to put in 5 pieces.
Les
Yes, bit of an oversight that one isn't it? Reckon I'll start low(ish) with the cassia and go from there.
Just examining an Al Frash balti. Very nice!
Rob :)
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Looking forward to your assessment of the garam masala mix, Rob. :)
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Al Frash then
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/ef967c92359eb3ec2be06cdaa05ed271.jpg)
Balti chicken (requested extra dry)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/da6c880c0e6aedd218600a839402eb11.jpg)
Rob :)
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Looking forward to your assessment of the garam masala mix, Rob. :)
I'll be roasting this weekend. Picked up a bag of rose petals yesterday. One almighty aroma. If it doesn't work out I'll be able to make some nice pot-pourri with them. Quietly confident though. My spice guru friend in Sparkhill has hinted that I am going in the right direction. This little floral bouquet it seems is quite a good seller ;). I may be on the verge of something truly magical. :D
Last night's Al Frash balti chicken (
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Al Frash then
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/ef967c92359eb3ec2be06cdaa05ed271.jpg)
Balti chicken (requested extra dry)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/da6c880c0e6aedd218600a839402eb11.jpg)
Rob :)
Looks a lot of Oil in there :o
The others look very nice though 8)
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Looking forward to your assessment of the garam masala mix, Rob. :)
I'll be roasting this weekend...
Interesting and informative write-up, Rob. Much appreciated.
I wish we had access to such a variety and proximity of decent TAs and restaurants up here, but, alas, its mostly much of a muchness and one curry differs little from another.
Good luck with the hob-fitting and GM trials next week too. :)
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Looks a lot of Oil in there :o
Looks more like ghee to me -- translucent rather than transparent, and shewing signs of setting.
** Phil.
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Picked up a bag of rose petals yesterday. One almighty aroma.
I think rose water would have been a cheaper and more convenient condiment to use. I've used it in the past for more traditional curries and it takes them away from BIR style, but this is Balti so it may be what's needed.
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Apparently ghee is a no-no for the Birmingham balti Phil. The Balti association stipulates that only veg oil can be used. The Al Frash balti actually tasted positively light compared to some of your average BIR offerings. The opacity of the oil could be due to chicken stock, and the photo was taken when the food was stone cold. I polished the lot off anyway. It wasn't as light as the other two places, but for those there was much less oil/separation. The Al Frash dish had a more "dry" finish at my request. Here's a pic taken after re-heated.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/f123b5891a3111f6dfb809c73af28db2.jpg)
A bit of info here on the balti and mention of the oil:
http://matthewocallaghan.co.uk/history-of-the-birmingham-balti/ (http://matthewocallaghan.co.uk/history-of-the-birmingham-balti/)
Current plan of action for a home effort Santa is kewra water added directly to the dish. Definitely an ingredient. it's mentioned on the Kushi book website. UncleFrank has also used it with success and more recently so have I. Rose petals for the GM. The GM will be used to make the mix powder, and also added late to the final dish. Wish me luck. :D
Rob :)
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Not adding much to the discussion, but the very first time I had indian food, there was kewra water in it. I later learned some people would mix the coloring with some kewra water.
p.s: Love the look of that curry. Spoon some of that oil aside for your next curry :)
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Good luck with the hob-fitting and GM trials next week too. :)
Thanks Naga. The hob fitting is a bit worrying. I hope it fits in the existing hole for one thing. :D
Was looking through the Adil menu again last night. The place is calling to me. I don't think I can resist going back, tonight. Friday night is my main curry night. I think I'll go. Maybe I wont. I should go? Hmm. Let's have another look. Ooh! Chef's Specials:
Balti Garlic Chilli Chicken.
I think that settles it!
Rob :)
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Hi Rob
This Balti Business,
Reading back, your first two examples, look like good BIR Madras's both in texture, colour and oil levels.
The third looks more of a Bhuna, could you tell if any of them used fresh chicken?
The other question, How does your Chef friend cook a Balti
I've just watched the Andy Munroe vid again. cooking a Balti with fresh chicken in 7mins.
Right next to a good pot of Garabi. mmmmm :D
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/video/2010/mar/30/birmingham-balti-triangle (http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/video/2010/mar/30/birmingham-balti-triangle)
cheers Chewy
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I'm a gnat's fart away from nailing the Adil balti. It's that close.
Rob :)
E-book, out soon.
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ok Im sold. Where do I sign for the ebook??
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Hi Rob
This Balti Business,
Reading back, your first two examples, look like good BIR Madras's both in texture, colour and oil levels.
The third looks more of a Bhuna, could you tell if any of them used fresh chicken?
The other question, How does your Chef friend cook a Balti
I've just watched the Andy Munroe vid again. cooking a Balti with fresh chicken in 7mins.
Right next to a good pot of Garabi. mmmmm :D
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/video/2010/mar/30/birmingham-balti-triangle (http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/video/2010/mar/30/birmingham-balti-triangle)
cheers Chewy
The Kushi uses pre-cooked chicken Chewy. Very tasty. There's a recipe in Authentic Balti Curry. I felt the other two used fresh. Really tasty, very soft. To be honest I've never made a BIR curry myself with fresh, so I can't be sure. Must have a go. They weren't obviously pre-cooked though and didn't have a rotisserie type texture/taste either.
I've seen several Bangla chefs make a balti. Typically, it's a straightforward pan cooked curry, with a couple of chunks of green pepper and tomato quarters. Patak's balti paste is a key ingredient. Anywhere between 1 tsp - 1 tbsp. One of the chefs adds a pinch of coriander powder early on. They seem very proud of their balti and aren't aware of any other ways of doing it. How is it done where you are?
Enjoyed the vid. Not seen it before. Thanks. Managed to get one of the thin pressed steel balti dishes yesterday. Took a bit of finding. They didn't have any at Uncles (the shop featured in the vid). Seems to be lots of flames involved when cooking a Birmingham balti. Hope I don't set fire to my arm!
Mixed fortunes with last night's TA balti(s).
Rob :)
I 'll keep you posted Mick. My book will take a little longer than anticipated. It's going to be that good I've decided to go hard-copy, leather bound. A proper book, to cherish. :D
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can you do your ebook with splash proof pages as well? hehehe
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I watched last night's the video from adey's chef cooking a balti... he adds a lump of balti paste, somewhere around 1.5-2 TBSPs of balti paste. I wonder if their customers notice the signature flavour that balti pastes have at those volumes?
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I watched last night's the video from adey's chef cooking a balti... he adds a lump of balti paste, somewhere around 1.5-2 TBSPs of balti paste. I wonder if their customers notice the signature flavour that balti pastes have at those volumes?
I queried that one with Mick. 3 tbsp. Is that not about a 1/3 of a jar?
Rob :P
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I would imagine so, based on what I saw in the video... although these guys certainly use the big tubs of the stuff. :)
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Couple of pics of the TA I got yesterday from the Adil and re-heated this evening.
Green chillies bhaji
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/7181a7c8e30784c43c5082cdd5fc1552.jpg)
Sure I got six last time? Anyway, the Adil use plastic TA containers for their mains. A nice touch here with the starter in foil. These wouldn't travel well in plastic. Very nice again with the mint dip. The only thing I've found is that if you do let this shingara-type batter/pastry go cold, the only real option is micro re-heating; they go rock hard in an oven very quickly.
Balti chilli garlic chicken
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/c13c11cfe3a14725e9a0fe2e7572707d.jpg)
Stone cold out of the fridge ready for re-heating. This was easily vindaloo hot. I think the chef had balanced things nicely by adding extra GM. Slightly disappointed there were not chicken strips, as with the standard balti, but the dish was still top notch. Only real dampener was that I had ordered another balti, and somehow ended up with two chilli garlic chickens. I phoned the restaurant and they were very apologetic. To be fair these things can happen now-and-then in a busy kitchen. Two mighty fine TAs anyway.
The main ring on my busted hop is still working. So I chanced a quick re-heat using the pressed steel balti pan I bought.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/5da422000976fe7166d71244b0f8e751.jpg)
The heat transfer is indeed incredibly fast. Looking good. I reckon I could have bhuna'ed this dish in next to no time. Nice to find that whilst the wall of the pan is so thin, the handles didn't heat up as much as I thought they would.
Served with:
Ginger naan. Pic taken before re-heat in the oven.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/95a2f6afbfabd1cb83ffbe483d167ce9.jpg)
Delicious!
Rob :)
That's definitely it. No more TA baltis for a while.
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Bengali Bob,
nearly missed this post. been planning to work on Balti myself (over the winter).
will have read through this post and add if i can. i currently feel i'm a longway short.
just bought the Birmingham Balti Company book which i need to try out.
ps it's probably the only thing i miss living now in the North West
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Nice one. Great if you can input Jerry. I'm pretty new to it, but my current thoughts are on how they are cooked, which seems to be flash fried wok style in veg oil, to provide the "lightness", and the rather unique spicing, which looks to include floral elements in some/most of the Balti triangle dishes I've tried so far. Can add that I think the Al Frash "bhuna" took the chef 4 minutes to make, tops. That is pretty quick for a BIR bhuna.
Rob :)
Pataks all the way in the NW?
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Hi Rob
Im on the case as well now. Just about to make a batch of Kushi Base (with reduced mace) and purchase some rose water.
Ive made some of Martinvics Balti Massala Mix this morning too
Thanks again for inspiring me to get off my rear-end and try again to produce my favourite dish
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Hi Rob
Im on the case as well now. Just about to make a batch of Kushi Base (with reduced mace) and purchase some rose water.
Ive made some of Martinvics Balti Massala Mix this morning too
Thanks again for inspiring me to get off my rear-end and try again to produce my favourite dish
Good luck for your endeavours Mick. I should be able to make a batch next week. I'm just looking through the Kushi menu. I think I'll have to go over there again later for a TA. Just to double-check things. :D Reckon another Balti chicken is on the cards, although the Balti lamb tikka jalfrezi is sounding mighty tempting. If Ali is there I might ask him for a small sample of his base gravy.
Rob :)
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Sounds good Rob i will report back later
Regards
Mick
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Just noticed this in the new Kushi menu. I am so dozy. Had the menu for over a week and missed it. I don't think this applies to the standard balti menu, but nonetheless is quite interesting.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/2cd4d6396c281474c515853dfa950fcd.jpg)
Rob :)
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Made a batch of the Kushi Base yesterday and combined it with Martinvics posted Balti Massala mix - which I used as a spice mix rather than a paste. I also added 1tsp rose water and 1 tsp lemon juice just before the final reduction. I could taste neither of these additions in the final curry. I then went back and repeated the process but this time adding 2tsp of each just prior to serving and the extra flavours came through nicely. I gave the "Minister for War" a portion and didnt tell her about the 2 extras, and she didnt pick up on them which tells me that I had probably got the balance about right (if that makes sense :-\)
Overall it was a nice Balti. I have certainly had plenty worse - with that awful Patak "Tang" overpowering everything. I didnt think to add some of the massala just prior to serving, but to be honest I doubt it would have added any fragrance to the final dish. I do feel however that Im on to something, but as Rob discovered it has all got to be down to the Massala / GM.
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Bengali Bob,
i'll read up on the your post this week.
it's going to take some blinkers off thinking to crack this for me.
i am pretty sure there are no special ingredients or cooking utensils or technique.
the difference that always sticks in my mind in comparing to BIR is that the finished sauce is much darker and the spicing completely different.
consequently i think the difference is down to:
1) the base - uses more whole spicing
2) mix powder - this must be more like a chef garam
i've added below the info i've collated to date. i also have some info from unclefrank which i left out so he can input too.
the only thing i've tried is hot frying black cumin and black mustard seed in the oil. the mustard seed is no no but cumin could play a part.
Lynette Baxter Book
1) essential flavours onion tomato cumin coriander
2) dried fenugreek leaves add authenticity (? add to all, ?fresh)
3) sizzle cumin & mustard seed in oil at start of dish few seconds
4) lentils, Pulses, chick peas used in veg dishes
5) fresh Coriander special part stirred in at end
6) Crushed Garlic fried with chopped onion at start (crush needed to release full flavour chopping is quite mild)
7) garam includes mint, used in most dishes
8 ) no tomato puree most dishes
9) regular ingredients: green chillies, Ginger, green & red pepper, lemon juice
10) mix powder or garam or both
BBC - Lenny Henri Video (from Natterjak)
Sauce, methi, garlic and flour, fresh tomato, cumin, coriander
Birmingham balti co
In short comes down to the "balti masala" mix powder
Back cover) - 5 star recipes to cook at home
12) Herbs - fresh (coriander, mint, pg 94 methi). Don't use methi stalks bitter.
19) balti masala "mix powder" has extensive ingredients: whole; Coriander, cumin, fennel, black mustard, fenugreek seed, clove, bay, curry leaf, lovage seed, onion seed, cassia (no cinnamon) methi. Ground; chilli, Ginger, cardamom, garlic, turmeric
20) Chef garam - aniseed and cardamom listed as ground not whole spice and not roasted. Ingredients: whole; coriander, cumin, cassia, mint leaf, bay. Ground; aniseed, cardamom, clove, turmeric, paprika. Would expect turmeric & paprika better in mix powder
62) cassia bark piece used at dish frying
66) black cumin seed, onion seed used whole at dish frying
67) garlic:Ginger 50:50 in dishes. Ginger not always added
96) 50:50 mix pwdr:tandoori masala in madras
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Good looking dish there Mickdabass. Interesting thread Rob. The whole balti thing is blowing my mind. I think the observations, comments remarks made by Jerry just seem to highlight for me that balti BIR is as vast a subject as BIR itself and the twain shall never meet. Personally, I've never had a "real" balti. By that I don't mean the balti the local BIR dish up as a balti served in a karahi. There were never any "balti" dishes on the menu until the balti dish from the midlands started making inroads into the BIR market. Then all of a sudden, balti dishes started appearing on all BIR and TA menus. I may sound a bit sceptical, but i doubt whether any BIR can turn out a balti like those from the restaurants and TA's from where it originated. It will just be another curry but slightly different from others on the menu.
Maybe one day, i'll get back to Brum and get to try a real balti. I sure as hell am not going to get anything close down my neck of the woods, albeit served in the right dish and called a balti :( .
Good luck to those on the balti quest. I've enough to do on the BIR / TA journey, without trying to complicate it with another totally different skill / ingredient set :-\ ;)
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Great work guys. I'm beavering away in the kitchen today. Will post results later. Just ordered the Lynette Baxter book.
Point 8 posted by Jerry:
No tomato puree most dishes
Very interesting. At 04.40 in the Andy Munro vid, tomato powder added. Punjab Paradise here I come!
Rob :)
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I googled Balti Massala Spice mix and found the following:
Balti Garam Massalas
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Good recipes Mick,
Which one do you use?
Les
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Hi Les
I used this one posted by Martinvic earlier in the thread. I chose it because I had all the spices in stock except dried mint - only had fresh but by the time Id roasted it in a frying pan, is was pretty dry lol
INGREDIENTS FOR BALTI MASALA
Makes about 200g ( Or enough for 20 single servings)
3 Tablespoons coriander seeds
3 Tablespoons white cumin seeds
1 six inch piece of cinnamon broken into pieces
1 Tablespoon black peppercorns
1 Tablespoon fennel seeds
1 Tablespoon black mustard seeds
The seeds of six black cardamom pods (4 black 3 Green)
1 Tablespoon fenugreek seeds
1 teaspoon onion seeds
10 cloves
1 Tablespoon dried fenugreek leaves
1 Tablespoon dried mint leaves
30 dried curry leaves
7 bay leaves
2 Tablespoons turmeric
2 Tablespoon ground garlic powder
2 Tablespoons ground ginger powder
1 Tablespoon ground red chilli powder
1 Tablespoon Premium Curry Powder
1/2 Tablespoon Tandoori Masala powder
1/2 Tablespoon All Purpose Seasoning
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Cheers Mick gonna give this one a go,
Bit confused Mick, is this 3 recipes or all in one recipe?
Les
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Its one - well thats how I interpreted it
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Thanks Mick,
All in one it is ;D Just seemed like a whole lot of ingredients for one mix powder.
Les
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Hi Mick
Glad to see you giving the Balti Masala mix a go. 8)
To avoid any confusion re the cardamom pods, I think I added the bit in brackets as an alternative, because others seemed to use just the green pods.
And yes it adds up to seven, not the six, because I thought it would be about the same equivalent, as the black pods I have are much bigger than the green. ;)
Martin
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Cheers for that Martin. I was going to pep it up a bit with some aniseed and maybe some rose petals too - just to try and give the finished product a bit more of a fragrance to it. It worked very well as it is really. I used 2 tsp in the balti.
Regards
Mick
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I'd go steady with the amount of Anise added, although not the same I think the Fennel seeds will already give some of the Anise flavour in that recipe, but Anise itself is much stronger.
Shame I have nothing to compare against myself, haven't had a real Balti in years.
I do use some of that same Balti mix alongside my normal spice mix (about 50/50) when I make a Balti.
I found it a little too fragrant for my tastes on its own.
Martin
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I'd go steady with the amount of Anise added, although not the same I think the Fennel seeds will already give some of the Anise flavour in that recipe, but Anise itself is much stronger.
Shame I have nothing to compare against myself, haven't had a real Balti in years.
I do use some of that same Balti mix alongside my normal spice mix (about 50/50) when I make a Balti.
I found it a little too fragrant for my tastes on its own.
Martin
Good call Martin - I hadnt thought of that. I havent got any aniseed but was thinking of star anise - which I sometimes add to my tikka marinade instead of fennell. I will report back when I have some results
Cheers
Mick
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Bengali bob,
now had chance to read the post from the start - best post for ages for me - loved it.
glad mickdabass and others are interested too - far better chance at cracking it.
1st off - i've never been to the triangle (spark hill i think). i've only ever needed to go to the Khyber Pass on Alum Rock Road. if you get chance would be good to try TA from this place too so that we know we're on common ground. i call it a balti house.
2nd - i don't feel we can rule anything out - too much conflicting info.
3rd - going to be difficult to crack without knowing what the base tastes like.
where i'm upto. i've been trying to track down lovage seed as this is the only spice in the BBComp (Birmingham Balti Company book) that i haven't tasted. i now think it's ajwain as no shop i've tried has lovage seed.
in short i think the base is essentially what i would call stripped back (c/w BIR). the BBComp base looks it and intend to make a small batch. it uses the balti masala "mix pwdr" which i'm really interested in and feel must be the differentiator. will also do desktop comparison of the various masala's in this post.
ps for info i have made the LB base in the past and it is very good. the mix powder is defo not balti and the garam not 100% right either.
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Sorry Mick, I should have been clear that I actually meant Star Anise, because that is the one I usually associate with Asian cooking.
I'd imagine Anise/Aniseed would probably be even stronger.
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Yes Martin
I read a thread from I think Razor a long time back and seem to remember he said how strong Aniseed was.
JerryM I have both Lovage and Ajwan seed. PM me your address and Ill pop some in the post to you
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Still doing lot's of prep, but should be able to fashion a home balti this evening. Was back on Ladypool Road yesterday in search of the Punjab Paradise, which unfortunately seems to have gone, even though they are still listed on Yelp. Must try to see if they've moved somewhere else. Reviewed here, together with several of the other Balti Triangle places. Not a bad read.
http://perfectbalti.wordpress.com/ (http://perfectbalti.wordpress.com/)
Rob :)
I'll try the Kyber and report back Jerry.
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Balti GM prep:
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/d7038a51dbd22c67165a0f139e37a5e9.jpg)
Gave it all a mix and laid it out under a hot grill. After 90 secs the kitchen was filled with the most beautiful aroma. 30 secs later the bay leaves caught fire!
I'll start again. Oven may be an option.
Rob ;D
http://www.indiancurryrecipes.com/2010/05/balti-garam-masala-a-balti-variation-of-garam-masala/ (http://www.indiancurryrecipes.com/2010/05/balti-garam-masala-a-balti-variation-of-garam-masala/)
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where i'm upto. i've been trying to track down lovage seed as this is the only spice in the BBComp (Birmingham Balti Company book) that i haven't tasted. i now think it's ajwain as no shop i've tried has lovage seed.
Ajwain is the signature spice used in the Adil baltis Jerry.
Rob :)
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mickdabass,
where on earth did you get you're lovage seeds - i've exhausted all my local places. will pm you many thanks.
Bengali Bob,
interesting on the ajwain and the Adil - i have used ajwain in past and swapped to fennel. i could well have been using too much as it's quite strong.
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have made the Birmingham Balti company base albeit with my existing chef garam (adding in turmeric and chilli to make sort of good).
the base tastes decent and what i would imagine as the base needed for Balti. i feel there is some improvement to have but for the moment it's the right ballpark.
Ingredients: BBC
Veg Oil 120
dutch onions (coarsely chopped) 450g
f.ginger g (0.4 paste)(blend) 10 ml (i used paste, had no fresh which would be 25g)
cooking salt 10 ml
f.garlic (0.4dry) g 25
spice mix 30 ml (chef garam)
methi 20 ml
black pepper 2.5 ml
g.cardamom (l.crush) 5 off
water 450 ml
tin toms 100g
thinning water 50g
i ended up using x2 of oil as i put 60 ml in with the onion and it should have gone in the spice baggar.
i'm amazed how quick to make ~ 30 mins. i reckon it's quite high on the spice (my calc ~6% c/w 2 to 3% norm for BIR). makes 4 portions (1200 ml).
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/7a3fa51f9063581cb85adf1a1672e30c.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#7a3fa51f9063581cb85adf1a1672e30c.jpg)
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Will be interesting to hear the feedback on the base when you use it Jerry. For the time being, i'll leave the balti cooking to you experts. I'm still getting my head around some of the BIR stuff ::)
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mickdabass,
where on earth did you get you're lovage seeds - i've exhausted all my local places. will pm you many thanks.
I will post them tomorrow Jerry.
Got them from an Asian friend who wholesales my potatoes and onions around Brum. Hes recently opened his own shop on the Soho Road and gave me a massive selection of spices that he stocks in his new shop as a christmas pressie. I will post a photo in a bit. Actually, while I was sifting throught the packets, I found the Lovage seeds and to my suprise, the packaging calls themLovage or Ajwain seeds too (TRS Brand). I also have a pack of East End Ajwain seeds and they look and smell identical
-
consider the TRS pack your own Jerry 8) 8)
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Just picked up a couple of baltis form the Khyber Jerry. Porn and opinion to follow.
Rob :)
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mickdabass,
many thanks - much appreciated. just to put my mind at rest.
them both being the same fits all the shops i've visited.
given what Bengali Bob said about the Adil and ajwain had a look at the stock list in the Birmingham Balti Company book - Lovage is listed but no ajwain.
Bengali Bob
really appreciate you calling in the Khyber. i've only sampled balti as i know it from there. it will be good to know how it sits in comparison with the Adil. as we all know even the restaurants and TA all have slightly differing tastes - but quality does tend to stand out. from the pics and my memory they look slightly different and gut feeling would be the Adil has the edge.
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curryhell,
appreciate you're interest. me too on some of the BIR but i doubt i'll be happy.
was quite interesting on making the dish - where to start.
i based on the lenny henry video except for the method preferring what i know ie hot fry.
recipe: dish01
fresh veg oil 1 chef 4 tbsp
black cumin seed 0.25 tsp
garlic paste 1 tsp
methi lg.pinch (thumb 3 finger)
chilli powder 0.25 tsp
chopped fresh tomato 1 off
base 300 ml (150 ml water added to thin ie 450)
fresh coriander lg.pinch
lemon dressing 3 sec squirt
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/3747e8f3d546c70c222ab42c07f86300.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#3747e8f3d546c70c222ab42c07f86300.jpg)
thoughts on dish 1: cumin was bitty in mouth, tom too coarse, probably needs onion and green pepper, spicing was a little flat. the taste was very clean and pleasant - not there but a decent starting point something like 3 out of 10
dish 2 (still 3/10 - essentially went a bit off)
1) ground the black cumin and added with spice ie not in the oil at start - lost the taste though
2) used tin chopped toms - better on no lumps but taste was not as good
3) used x2 lg.pinch methi - too much
4) used x2 lg.pinch fresh coriander - ok can't say was better though
5) added in 0.5 tsp bassar - not sure. it filled the spice gap but the clarity of taste in dish 1 had gone (could have been down to the other changes)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/007ddb7e0edb9bb9b538a91125354603.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#007ddb7e0edb9bb9b538a91125354603.jpg)
nb color of both dishes was same and more like dish 2
thoughts going forward:
1) try repeat dish 1 with chef garam and garlic tarka at end
2) add some pre cooked chopped onion and maybe slice green pepper
any other thoughts appreciated. have 2 portions base left.
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As promised a couple of pics and blurb on Jerry's Alum Rock balti house.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/bbd56f4db79490a69e17ec861314c4da.jpg)
Balti chicken tikka masala (madras)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/f7dd8ea1240f10aeb39451f0720d9120.jpg)
Reheated in the oven and served in style
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/71ddf3c61665653cfc2bddb52807fe82.jpg)
Another top notch real-deal balti (
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have been comparing Bengali Bob's photo of Adil & Kyber and thinking of how to improve my 3/10 offering.
current thoughts (no order):
1) Cumin - try x2 0.25 tsp but roll seeds. add to oil not with spice (per dish 1)
2) Red colour - looks like oil only ie sauce is more greyish. Try paprika in mix. for moment want to stay off tom puree
3) Onion - try chopped par boil
4) Tomato - try fine chop fresh adding after spice
5) Garlic - try crushed chopped at start
6) Frying - back off spice frying which is darkening the dish
7) Methi - restrain from using too much
any thoughts specially from Bengali Bob appreciated. at this stage only really aiming for ballpark taste appreciating i'm still using my own chef masala.
ps it's the chicken balti i'm aiming at.
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I'll know more tomorrow/soon Jerry. Will be having a proper bash in the kitchen later today trialling a couple of mixes. Planned to have a go last night but ended up polishing off the Kyber balti chicken. Fantastic it was!
The Adil GM is my first priority. I gave some of their chilli sauce to one of my chef friends to see what he made of it. He confirmed it was a standard sauce with a GM added. He then rattled off the ingredients, in order of prominence. Ajwain, cumin (too much in his opinion), coriander, mango (probably chutney), star anise, these up front; mint and methi in the background. Plenty of vinegar and lemon juice. He couldn't place the ingredient responsible for the floral aroma, but agreed it was there and quite important to the finish.
Rob :)
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I'm enjoying reading this thread. With Holmes and Watson on the case, I'm sure the mystery will eventually be solved :D Would that be Detective Inspector Moike you've called in there Bob ;D Get him to do an undercover job to find out ;)
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I'm enjoying reading this thread. With Holmes and Watson on the case, I'm sure the mystery will eventually be solved :D Would that be Detective Inspector Moike you've called in there Bob ;D Get him to do an undercover job to find out ;)
No, the DI is being drafted in as senior investigator later this week.
Rob :)
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I'm on the Case.
-
;D ;D ;D ;D
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I can't wait any longer. Base gravy warming up, right now. Orange coloured curries are my speciality. Madras is my speciality. What can possibly go wrong? If it does go completely pear-shaped, there's always Mr. Naga. One way or the other I'll by having home-made tonight!
Rob :)
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Balti chicken madras vs Balti chicken:
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/24b81fd30074751aef61bc05b0e4909c.jpg)
Pictured stone cold. I'll need to warm them up a bit for further analysis/autopsy, but this already looks likely to be a lengthy case/investigation. Fortunately there are others making further enquiries.
Rob :)
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The evidence in the foil containers is a fair indicator that progress is being made to crack the case. I wish i was nearer so i could indeed tamper with the evidence to see if it was admissible ;D
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There have certainly been significant developments Dave. But some of the important statements of aroma failed to materialize. The case is adjourned pending re-evaluation of their whereabouts.
Rob :)
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Rob
Did you add some more gm towards the end of cooking maybe just after/during the final reduction?
Rgds
Mick
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mickdabass,
where on earth did you get you're lovage seeds - i've exhausted all my local places. will pm you many thanks.
I will post them tomorrow Jerry.
Got them from an Asian friend who wholesales my potatoes and onions around Brum. Hes recently opened his own shop on the Soho Road and gave me a massive selection of spices that he stocks in his new shop as a christmas pressie. I will post a photo in a bit. Actually, while I was sifting throught the packets, I found the Lovage seeds and to my suprise, the packaging calls themLovage or Ajwain seeds too (TRS Brand). I also have a pack of East End Ajwain seeds and they look and smell identical
Hi guys great thread. I too would love to crack the balti! Lovage and Ajwain are the same thing I use them in my samosa dough. They give a real extra "something". Have you tried Raja Brothers on Ladypool Road? they seem to have everything!
MM
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Is anyone familiar with the book: 100 Best Balti Recipes? Discussed here back in 2005.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,430.0.html (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,430.0.html)
Very interesting. Apparently the/a Kyber Pass Balti chicken tikka masala recipe includes Patak's Kashmiri paste, of all things. Well I never! You can download parts of the book via the link.
Rob :)
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Rob
Check this link too
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,2542.0.html (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,2542.0.html)
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Rob
Did you add some more gm towards the end of cooking maybe just after/during the final reduction?
Rgds
Mick
Yes Mick. GM in early and late. I used this one for the Balti chicken:
http://www.indiancurryrecipes.com/2010/05/balti-garam-masala-a-balti-variation-of-garam-masala/ (http://www.indiancurryrecipes.com/2010/05/balti-garam-masala-a-balti-variation-of-garam-masala/)
This resulted in a nice dish, but it didn't scream balti quality at me. Made with Kushi base, Kushi spice (both minus Kushi GM, because no one knows what it is) and Kushi pre-cooked chicken. Good balti, but not a Kushi balti by a long way.
Will be having the Balti chicken madras tonight. This is my version of the Adil. I've had a little taste and the flavours aren't jumping out like they should be.
Rob :)
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Rob
Check this link too
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,2542.0.html (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,2542.0.html)
Looks very good. Just ordered the book from Amazon for a penny plus postage. Hope there's a lot more GM recipes in it or it's back to square one again. That recipe for the Khyber Pass doesn't look right to me. 1 tbsp of dried methi. I don't think so. And there was some soy sauce in it. Perhaps it's a different Khyber.
Rob :)
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Bengali Bob,
i take it the 2 side by side pics in the foil are in fact your makes (Balti chicken madras vs Balti chicken). if so would be interested in the recipe. i too have this same reluctance say to adopt what i know as we are aiming for something quite different and following what you know will only produce same so to speak.
going to try my thoughts "adjustments" monday night.
will pull the 100 Best Balti info - the info i have only has 5 recipe i think and they did not set me wild as an instant short cut.
Next up for me will be to combine the best of the BBComp and LB bases - each has advantages whilst still aiming for a stripped down base (from BIR). call it an aromatic gm base.
i don't expect a early break through on this but happy to enjoy the journey over what i see will be most of the winter. the chef is a real good move.
ps thanks to mushroom mike for confirming the lovage equals ajwain
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Yes, first couple of my efforts Jerry. Will write more. Got a stinky cold at the moment. Reckon an Ex hot balti chicken special is on the cards tonight, to see if that will shift it. Cough and splutter.
Rob :)
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Balti garlic chilli chicken dopiaza
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/1cb62b88457a4827337adb97b0d7abdc.jpg)
I think this one is a cracker. Bursting with balti flavours. Even though my nose is bunged-up. Second attempt. Burned the first one cooked in a steel balti.
Think I'll have it tonight with boiled basmati rice. Fed up with naans.
Rob :D
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That looks great Rob
Which recipe did you use?
Regards
Mick
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That dish looks splendiferous, Rob! I'm for a Chicken Jalfrezi in front of the Champions League game tonight, but I could be persuaded to make a late substitution if you could give some recipe pointers.
Good luck with the cold - I usually find a good dose of our local Chinese T/A's Hot and Sour Soup does the trick for me, but there's nothing like a good chilli kick to get the sinuses flowing, that's for sure! Now if only I had the recipe for that soup... :)
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It's all a bit of a hotchpotch at the moment Mick. Just trying to find my feet and following on from where I got to last year. I've made the Kushi base. But left out GM as it is an unknown (rather than adding one at random that will influence every dish made using the base). Instead I'm adding various GM's (early and late) as I go when cooking individual dishes. Not ideal but it's a start. Only tried two balti GMs so far. One knocked up by guesswork similar to the Adil balti flavours/aromas, and this one (no saffron):
http://www.indiancurryrecipes.com/2010/05/balti-garam-masala-a-balti-variation-of-garam-masala/ (http://www.indiancurryrecipes.com/2010/05/balti-garam-masala-a-balti-variation-of-garam-masala/)
The latter is looking to produce some positive results for me (I've now increased the amount of rose petals significantly), even though I am already fairly certain it's not going to give me what I would like ideally, i.e a good match to the restaurant baltis I've had recently. Early days though, and of course ias we know it's not just the balti flavours/aromas, there are the texture(s) and sweetness to think about. Jerry's plans/progress look really interesting.
The main thing that is throwing me somewhat at the moment is that the Kushi base, spice mix and pre-cooks are, I feel, essentially very much like what (in the right hands) can be used to make typical high-quality "BIR faire", whereas the actual dishes from the Kushi are (in my experience) high-quality "Birmingham balti". Both highly desirable food stuffs, yet markedly different in nature.
Today's dopiaza effort was made along these lines, with additional kewra water and soy sauce, and based around Mick's (CBM) Garlic chilli chicken tikka dopiaza video. Highly recommended.
Rob :)
Cheers Naga. Just in case the spicy dopi doesn't do the trick I've made some trad Bengali chutney, which is basically fresh pineapple, green chilli, garlic, and shed loads of salt. It blows your head off!
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...I've made some trad Bengali chutney...It blows your head off!
Remember - we like photos, Rob lol! :D
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i'm now half way there 5/10. it's as far as my BBComp base and own chef garam will take.
i can post on dish 3 if needed. dish 4 i would make again and say 5/10
dish 4 recipe:
veg oil 1 chef
black cumin 0.5 tsp (light grind)
crushed chopped garlic 2 off clove
par boiled chopped onion 1 chef
methi 1 tsp
chilli 0.25 tsp
paprika 0.5 tsp
bassar 0.5 tsp
chef garam 0.25 tsp
tandoori masala pwdr 0.25 tsp
blended chopped fresh tomato 1 off
base 300 ml
i think the tandoori masala could be left out and probably the paprika needs adding to the base.
interesting the affect of the flash pic 1 & pic 2 same dish:
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/6c62b0c872296a131117e769100a729a.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#6c62b0c872296a131117e769100a729a.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/54e2f4a0607dcdcb31ad0d0ddeb4c3e6.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#54e2f4a0607dcdcb31ad0d0ddeb4c3e6.jpg)
next up will make a better base. i also need to add in a better chef garam and will wait till Bengali Bob feels he's in right ballpark.
well pleased so far. nothing like what i normally produce but feel that's what's needed. loving the journey
thoughts taking forward:
1) Cumin - 0.25 to 0.5 tsp works. Needs light grind. add to oil not with spice
2) Red colour - looks like oil only ie sauce is more greyish. paprika in mix adds some Colour (0.5 tsp). for moment want to stay off tom puree
3) Onion - chopped par boil essential. The extra cooking helps soften the whole cumin
4) Tomato - fine chop fresh adding after spice was still lumpy. Used blended and adopting blended tin toms with a few fresh segments
5) Garlic - crushed fine chopped at start adopted
6) Frying - only light frying of spice needed otherwise darkens the dish
7) Methi - restrain from using too much (1 tsp max)
8) Lovage "ajwain" - maybe add with cumin at start
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Great work Jerry. The finish on your photo looks a lot more like what is needed; looks very good. Interesting on the use of bassar, which of course is used widely in Pakistani cooking. Nice one. I tried blended plum tomatoes alone for the balti madras I posted earlier. Took over somewhat, I may have added to much. Have ordered some tomato powder to see if it brings anything. Hopefully I won't end up with a Balti cup-a-soup! I think soy sauce is a definite ingredient for the baltis. A splosh soon after the base goes in. So far I've been using Amoy reduced salt.
Rob :)
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Jerry, which pic is a more true representation of the dish you cooked?
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Following your Balti theme Rob
I cooked a Chicken and Mushroom Balti for tea.
Bit of a cock up really as I didn't have everything to hand before I started.
The French call it "Mise en place" I think and is really important with BIR style fast cooking.
The biggest laugh (at myself) was the Balti powder and Fresh Coriander were still outside in the car (Doh) ::)
Anyhoo, ended up too oily and not chilli hot enough, but the flavour from the Balti Masala powder was defoe "Indian different".
I only used 0.25 tsp and it flavoured the dish well.
All in all, a little more prep and attention next time and it should be a sound dish.
cheers Chewy
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/d270243d5336da525447268fe9e2dc82.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#d270243d5336da525447268fe9e2dc82.jpg)
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Looks very nice indeed, Chewy.Your "cock up" fairly knocks my jalfrezi tonight in to a cocked hat.
I don't think I would know what a proper Balti actually tastes like as I'm not sure I've ever had an authentic one.
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Chewy, great looking curry mate! Envious!
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I'm not talking to you any more Chewy until you tell me where to get one of those lovely triple-handled balti dishes from. If you tell me I might treat you to a real-deal Birmingham balti.
Rob :D
BTW. I'll be up-grading my 8 megapixel Canon Powershot to a top end DLSR soon. Watch out! ;D
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Out of luck there Rob
I was given the Balti Bowl, I've never seen them in the shops myself.
I've just been using my handy dandy iPhone camera ;D
If your going DSLR, go Nikon, amazing movie mode! 8)
Get a box of Mangal Balti Curry Masala, even got an authentic 15min recipe on the back. ;)
cheers Chewy
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Drat, and double drat! I was looking forward to one of those balti dishes. No where to be seen. Must be a one-off prototype.
I've decided to keep my camera and wait for a phone and cooking skills upgrade.
Rob :)
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Another one. Made this last night.
Balti keema and peas
On the bubble. Used a pan as I think my steel balti dish needs a bit of seasoning. Currently everything that goes in it gets incinerated. Not got the hang of my new gas hob yet either. It's a jet engine compared to my old electric.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/03b2328a514c81b9c9bdb52cdb219d78.jpg)
Quite a dazzling result :D
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/7039e80e6d1687e1db235b06bf90013a.jpg)
Very nice indeed. The balti aromas are within grasp, but the texture and sweetness is all wrong. I think I'll be trying a different base gravy fairly soon.
Rob :)
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You could try this base Rob, It's simple and very tasty, It's the only one I use, With your knowledge and a few tweaks, you never know
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,1894.0.html (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,1894.0.html)
Les
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Thanks Les. Will have a good look at that one.
Tomato powder arrived. Looking forward to giving this a whirl.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/6a21d29e03e234d4b4480040302bb4c3.jpg)
Definitely mentioned in the Punjab Paradise video. I went to Rajah Bros' and they don't stock it. They suspected it was paprika I needed. Tomato powder sold wholesale in 25 kg bags by Natco though.
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Just found that tomato powder is actually used in Chef Grossman baltis. A positive endorsement if there ever was one.
http://www.loydgrossmansauces.co.uk/loydgrossmansauces/product/balti/ (http://www.loydgrossmansauces.co.uk/loydgrossmansauces/product/balti/)
I'm hoping it adds to the sweetness and thickness, texture sort of thing.
Rob :)
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Nice matar gosht there Bob! what's this punjab paradise thing?
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Tomato powder arrived. Looking forward to giving this a whirl.
Hmm. Wouldn't recommend placing too much credence on the use-by dates (plural) ...
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Nice matar gosht there Bob! what's this punjab paradise thing?
Balti matar gosht. Like it!
Tomato powder mentioned in this vid at 04.40 Goncalo. Looks like chopped fresh and powder is the way to go.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/video/2010/mar/30/birmingham-balti-triangle (http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/video/2010/mar/30/birmingham-balti-triangle)
Rob :)
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In the early days of this forum Pete visited a takeaway where they used what they called "tomato powder" but it turned out to be paprika. Why do you think tomato powder is an ingredient?
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Why do you think tomato powder is an ingredient?
Just a wild guess.
Rob ;D
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Curryhell,
on the photo with and without flash - for BIR i certainly aim for the lighter version ie flash. the Khyber Pass must be quite dark inside as until Bob's pics i'd thought of Balti as darker (due to the garam). i take most of my photo without flash trying to take during good day light. the dish 4 photo was taken as light was fading - hence feeling the darker pic was not how it looked and deciding to take with flash but the flash version is is too light - in short neither are right but lighter version closest.
it's not good when you're quite dependent on getting the looks right - loved Chewytikka's pic looked very nice Balti.
back on Balti.
1) Lovage - the parcel from mickdabass (many thanks) has arrived - the stuff is ajwain which i already know from the original iffu base. i ended up not being keen on it and switched to fennel at the time but may well have had the balance wrong - time will tell. also picked up bag of onion seed in readiness for an oven roast.
2) 100 Best Balti extract by Ray Graham
the tomato paste or puree recipe looks very different:
butter 15g
basil 0.5 tsp
mint 2 tsp
black pepper 0.5 tsp
tin toms 450g
salt 0.5 tsp
the akash balti paste same comment: butter, ginger, garlic, onion, carrot, f.coriander green pepper, chopped toms, tom puree, split peas, methi, mix, curry powder, turmeric. it almost reads like a base to me but would like to think it's aimed at a bunjarra equivalent.
both parked for now
ps dish 4 recipe forgot to add fresh coriander to the list of ingredients - i use 4 finger and thumb pinch/handful ~ 2 tbsp - essential for BIR and Balti
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Getting nowhere whatsoever with the Kushi "Authentic Balti Curry" basics. For one thing the base gravy recipe is essentially bog-standard Bangla, and not what we're looking for, in my opinion. Time for a re-think me thinks.
Rob :)
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I've just had another brain-wave. We need a paste. That's it, definitely. It's time for some serious balti bagar!
Rob :)
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would you not be able to make your own tomato powder from sundried tomato Bob?
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Hey Rob
I think the Tomato powder was probably a gaff made by the presenter of the video.
As it was his first time making one for camera and didn't know what he was looking at, just following the bewildered cook. ;D ;D
Anyhoo I new I'd seen my Balti dish before!
Here it is, been on youtube for 6 years.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GH8UbfAQIM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GH8UbfAQIM)
cheers Chewy
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would you not be able to make your own tomato powder from sundried tomato Bob?
Sun dried tomato paste...I bet that'd add a unique flavour to a curry!
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would you not be able to make your own tomato powder from sundried tomato Bob?
Sun dried tomato paste...I bet that'd add a unique flavour to a curry!
Indeed, but it could be worse... :D
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Bob, Guess what i found today while tracking down some Kashmiri Mirch (thanks to Chewy). Only saw that size and they're
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I hoped you picked up a couple for me Gav. ;D Where is the place? I need to know.
Rob :)
Good price for a copper based dish is that.
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Ahmed Superstore in South Shields. :)
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Bob, Guess what i found today...
Well spotted! :)
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Excellent! Any chance you or Chewy could drop me a couple off in Birmingham?
Rob :D
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100 Best Balti Curries Book arrived today. Not a bad read. More baltis soon me thinks! Just need a new base now.
Rob :)
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Read 100 Best Balti Curries now. Get the distinct impression the restaurants mentioned (and there are a lot) have given absolutely nothing away recipe-wise on their base gravies, mix powders, and gm. Instead, the authors have come up with generic mixes out of thin air, and every recipe in the book seems to refer back to these. Still, good book for 1 p plus postage, and there are plenty of ideas; some of the starters look authentic too.
Rob :)
Balti Towers in Halesowen are mentioned in the book. Home delivery range for me. Just had a TA from them. Unbelievably (really) bad. It's gone in the bin! When I calm down I will post a short review in the appropriate section.
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Just need a new base now.
Bob,
i have the 2 things on my mind - base and gm. i'm going to combine the LB and BBComp bases and will post what recipe jumps out before i go ahead and make.
on the gm i'm thinking:
1) bay
2) green cardamom
3) anis
4) cinnamom
5) aniseed
6) fennel
7) mint
8 ) ajwain
to potentially add in later:
9) pimento/clove
10) rose petal
i've got fingers crossed for a taste of base on the Balti visit. not essential but would certainly speed up by offering a better route map.
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Thought might be better posting my Balti Towers experience here for comparison. Here goes:
"Welcome to Balti Towers. Famed and sizzling, super Balti Towers are an award-winning family run restaurant who have been established now for 22 years. The recent awards Balti Towers has received include a gold award from The Dudley Council for good food, high standards of food safety, good environmental practices and excellent service which was presented by The Mayor of Dudley.Balti Towers has featured in The Sun, The Times, The Sunday Mercury, Express and Star and as seen on television. Also, visited frequently by different celebrities. A visit to Balti Towers is an experience not to be missed".
http://www.baltitowers.co.uk/ (http://www.baltitowers.co.uk/)
Well, as mentioned, Balti Towers also have a recipe in 100 Best Balti Curries, and to top it off they also market their own balti sauce, available in jars directly from Amazon, and local Co-ops! Less then 2 miles from me and well within delivery range. How had I missed this place before? I set about putting things right last night, picked up the phone, and ordered a fine TA selection. Sheek kebab starter, Balti chicken (had to be), egg fried rice, and garlic naan. They were busy and I was given a 1 hr 20 min delivery estimate. No probs, it was Saturday night after all. As it turned out my meal arrive in about 40 mins. Entire order photographed immediately upon arrival, as it came.
Sheek kebab (
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Looking at it Rob,
I think you made the right choice, IN THE BIN, Hello, is that something the dog left behind. looks really appetizing, NOT. must have gone to the local Chinese for that rice I reckon.
Les
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I have been working on a different base.
One I obtained from "The Dark Side."
Had to renew my subscription so I hope its worth it !!!
The main differences are the use of full fat milk and frozen cauliflower florets.
The resultant base looked creamy (suprise suprise ::) ::) ) and smelt a bit strange.
The prawn Balti I made was really nice. Didn't add any rosewater though, but still produced a nice lightly spiced dish. I used the same GM from before (see earlier posts) The creaminess from the base came through nicely. To me it was a definite improvement over the Kushi base and was IMO a step in the right direction.
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Balti Towers in Halesowen are mentioned in the book. Home delivery range for me. Just had a TA from them. Unbelievably (really) bad.
Perhaps it was Manuel's turn to cook? :P
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They've taken the royal (shahi?) piss there Rob. Chewy's madras always saves the day!
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A not too impressive TA at all there Rob. I've seen much much better looking food posted by you and others on the forum :) One to avoid in future then. Maybe the chef had an off night, but it all looks pretty dismal compared to what we are able to produce on here. Maybe Manuel was in the kitchen, and looking at that excuse for rice, Sybil was cooking as well.
Looking forward to further contributions to this thread as the forum seems to have set it sights on achieving "quality" baltis ;D
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makes our journey even more important.
this is where i'm upto ie what i'm going to try next. the brackets imply a unit which i use to understand the proportions better. the info is essentially lifted from both the Lynette and Birmingham Balti books and adapted to my thought process that balti is a long way from traditional and is much more "english" palette than even BIR.
any thoughts appreciated.
Balti masala mix powder:
1) paprika 10 ml
2) chilli 2.5 ml (0.25)
3) coriander 10 ml (2.5)
4) cumin 5 ml (1)
5) garlic 5 ml (0.5)
6) ginger 2.5 ml (0.3)
7) green cardamom 1.25 ml (0.2)
8 ) methi 5 ml (0.5)
9) bassar 15 ml
10) turmeric 50 ml (0.5)
Balti Chef garam:
1) bay 5 off (1)
2) green cardamom 13 ml (0.25)
3) anis 5 off segment
4) cinnamon 5x5 cm (20)
5) aniseed 25 ml (0.5)
6) fennel 12.5 ml (0.3)
7) mint 7.5 ml (0.2)
8 ) ajwain 2.5 ml (0.1)
9) pimento 10 ml (0.25)
10) Rose petal
Base balti sauce
Veg oil
Onion 1000g (6 medium)
Garlic 2 cloves (5%)
Ginger 1 inch (5%)
Cumin 5 ml
Coriander 10 ml
Chilli 2.5 ml
Turmeric 2.5 ml
Balti chef garam 5 ml (6%)
Methi 5 ml (4%)
Paprika 5 ml
Tin toms 200 g (20%)
Tom puree 15 ml
Green cardamom 5 off
Bay 2 off
Anis 1 off
water 300 ml
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the brackets imply a unit which i use to understand the proportions better.
Could you possibly explain these mysterious units a little more fully, Jerry. Do they incorporate (for example) a measure of the "strength" of a spice, so that equal volumetric measures of two spices of widely different "strengths" would thus have significantly different values in the "units" column ?
** Phil.
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I have to confess that my only experiment with Balti cooking (one of my first 'real' curry cooking experiences in fact) was using the GM from PChapman's Balti curry cookbook. I don't know if my measurements were skewiff but the resulting curries were really heavy on the cloves.
I don't use cloves in my normal GM (zaal) and only use them in Pilau rice or as whole spices when making more traditional fare.
Any thoughts on there inclusion? I'm intrigued by Balti cooking, as I originally come from the curry wonderland of Hertfordshire where a Balti was exactly the same as any other curry.
I've heard people talk in hushed whispers about the Birmingham Baltis but unfortunatly missed the boat on that. I find it hard to understand the exact difference in taste between Balti and standard BIR.
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Great ideas/work on the balti Mick and Jerry. We'll get there eventually. Froze down tea spoon sized portions of the Balti Tower's sauce from the other night. Their Just-Eat feedback is impressive and they have been around a while. But no way was that balti I had cooked properly. I think that's even evident from the pic posted. Just had another taste of it tonight and I swear the sauce (base) is crammed with different veg. It tasted almost like a can Heinz veg soup! I'll see if I can get a jar of their commercial balti sauce for comparison.
Rob :)
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Hi Fried
This Balti Malarky, Nobody seems to know for sure what the original Paki version is yet.
Need a time machine and a bit divine intervention to solve the mystery. ;D ;D
But since the early eighties, Balti cooked by Bangladeshi BIR and TA's (1,000's Nationwide) have been your standard BIR curries
with a dollop of Balti paste added for the flavour.
If you look at Bob's best photographs of the Balti's he's bought from some of the most famous Balti House's in Brum,
they look no different from standard BIR curry fayre and look like the've just had a dollop. ;)
It would be different if they were curries shown were loaded with whole spices and cooked from fresh.
I do remember one restaurant here doing this style, all those years ago.
Until Bob can find a Original Pakistani Balti. ;)
I'll continue with what I know for sure, but for anybody who can't get Pataks Balti paste
You could try this recipe for making your own jar up.
Chewy's Balti Paste
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Finally I can find some usefulness to my pestle and mortar, thanks Chewy!
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I'll continue with what I know for sure, but for anybody who can't get Pataks Balti paste
You could try this recipe for making your own jar up.
And, assuming both pastes taste similar, neither will produce a dish that even remotely resembles a true Birmingham balti.
We're working on it Chewy. Have patience. It's a major and important task!
Rob :)
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Just picked up the legendary Balti Towers balti jar sauces. As recommended by Jan O Pederson, the 1991 Speedway World Champion!
http://www.halesowennews.co.uk/news/local/4780740.Balti_sauce_hits_supermarket_shelves/ (http://www.halesowennews.co.uk/news/local/4780740.Balti_sauce_hits_supermarket_shelves/)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/0d6dbda69aea77cacc53a8a28c7fe66d.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/f58b3c26203589adebbdd8c09a111695.jpg)
Was always going to be a bit of long-shot this one. Had hoped there'd be some root veg gems in the ingredients list. Never mind. I shall have a taste later.
Rob :)
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Just picked up the legendary Balti Towers balti jar sauces. As recommended by Jan O Pederson, the 1991 Speedway World Champion!
Maybe Jan should stick to what he's good at ;) and leave the balti assessing to the real experts ;D
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Phil [Chaa006],
the unit is nothing special and no real science behind. i just tend to pick out one ingredient that i feel is key and call this 1 unit or 100%.
i find it useful when looking at mix powder recipes. for me cumin is my base unit and i would then look for coriander to have 2 units and so on. in base gravy my base unit is onion. i use the unit for this as a percent so i would look for say 10% oil and the spice to be between 3 and 6%.
it's not meant to be accurate but to give a quick idea of how the recipe sits and how it compares to other recipes.
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Any thoughts on there inclusion?
I find it hard to understand the exact difference in taste between Balti and standard BIR.
Fried,
cloves don't jump out for me as a BIR ingredient or Balti. i have never used them and don't intend to. i do have pimento on my mind but it's quite different.
across most of BIR land there is no difference between Balti and BIR dishes. i think of BIR Balti as korahi ie lightly spiced and a fair bit of veg ie green pepper, onion, tomato.
where Balti is different is in one area of Birmingham where the places are called Balti Houses. difficult to describe how these differ but for me they are a cross between BIR and Traditional but with the traditional bits adjusted for the english taste ie no cloves and only lightly spiced. the garam is aromatic rather than heat based traditional ingredient.
another difference is that the naan bread is better - it's thinner and almost crisp not doughy like BIR naan.
Balti House mains are more veg based than BIR ie mushroom.
bottom line though is that i can live without balti but not BIR
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Hmmm, I am still very confused. So if (say) your reference ingredient in the Balti Masala is cumin (for which you give a scaled value of 1 unit) and of which there is 5ml :
Balti masala mix powder:
1) paprika 10 ml
2) chilli 2.5 ml (0.25)
3) coriander 10 ml (2.5)
4) cumin 5 ml (1)
5) garlic 5 ml (0.5)
6) ginger 2.5 ml (0.3)
7) green cardamom 1.25 ml (0.2)
8 ) methi 5 ml (0.5)
9) bassar 15 ml
10) turmeric 50 ml (0.5)
why is it that the turmeric, of which there is ten times as much (i.e., 50ml), has a scaled value of only 0.5, or exactly the same value as is given to the methi, of which there is only 5ml rather than 50ml ?
** Phil.
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been studying the andy munro video (org post http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,4472.0.html (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,4472.0.html))
there are 12 ingredient dishes on the table.
does anyone have any ideas on what the dish next to the onion is - it's got me beat and i feel it's probably a key ingredient:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/video/2010/mar/30/birmingham-balti-triangle (http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/video/2010/mar/30/birmingham-balti-triangle)
this is how i have the 7 mins:
1) Sliced onion
2) chopped f. Tomato
3) Green pepper
4) Salt
5) Tom pwdr paprika
6) mix or turmeric
7) Garam
8 ) methi
9) meat
10) Sliced f. Green chilli
11) Fresh coriander
12) Unknown paste ?
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does anyone have any ideas on what the dish next to the onion is - it's got me beat and i feel it's probably a key ingredient:
12) Unknown paste ?
Could it possibly be whizzed up fried onions with a drop of water or yoghurt? :)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BEje_rwyM8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BEje_rwyM8)
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At a guess it's going to be the 'balti' paste.
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Just picked up the legendary Balti Towers balti jar sauces. As recommended by Jan O Pederson, the 1991 Speedway World Champion!
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/0d6dbda69aea77cacc53a8a28c7fe66d.jpg)
Was always going to be a bit of long-shot this one. Had hoped there'd be some root veg gems in the ingredients list. Never mind. I shall have a taste later.
Rob :)
LoL ;D Not sure if your losing the plot with these Rob, did you actually cook something with them?
Anyhoo, I've got some old Balti Cookbooks (90's) somewhere in the loft, I'll try and dig them out
and have a look see, might help, you never know.
I've also asked a few Chefs, who were around in the 80's, but nothing doing as yet! They just twist and say (moderated) Curry.
I'm sure they think I'm losing it with all the history questions, ;D ;D
Started a full blown augument about which place in the road had the first Tandor Oven ;D ;D
Balti on...
cheers Chewy
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Ha ha, no, I've put them in the cupboard (at the back) for a rainy day. 8) Get those books dusted off Mike. I'm waging a major campaign on the balti in the next week or so. I've got some bostin ideas to try out.
Rob :)
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any ideas on what the dish next to the onion is - it's got me beat and i feel it's probably a key ingredient:
12) Unknown paste ?
Could be a green chilli paste, or (clutching at straws ) A Dhal paste of some sort?
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I've got some bostin ideas to try out.
Hehe, proper Brummie! ;D
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I've heard people talk in hushed whispers about the Birmingham Baltis but unfortunatly missed the boat on that. I find it hard to understand the exact difference in taste between Balti and standard BIR.
It is very difficult to describe the difference between top end BIR and Balti. Both amazing in their own right. But the delicate balti flavours dance and sparkle so much. So a BIR Chicken madras could be a rumba, whereas a Balti chicken madras, would be a cha cha. But accordingly a BIR phal would be a tango, and there is not really a balti equivalent.
Rob :)
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Phil [Chaa006],
in short the turmeric unit is an error. the Birmingham Balti book quotes cumin at 30ml and turmeric at 15 ml ie 0.5 unit.
trouble is i'm not sorted 100% on turmeric in mix pwdr. i use iffu's mix and don't know the composition. before that i used mouchak which has 4 unit turmeric. in comparing the 2 the curry powder is a major factor but i feel the iffu has more turmeric - my gut feeling is 10 unit.
i've never got round to trying it out - hence the conflicting units. and the real problem with trying to guess "balti" - how close to stick to the books v gut feeling. hence "ball park" being the aim as fine tuning is then quite easy.
best wishes,
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DalPuri, Les,Secret Santa,
very much appreciate you're ideas on the video. the "bowl" in question is at 03:01 and 05:24 in the video and has a yellow greenish color - i've never made anything like.
It's not the brown onion - i bought a pack some time ago and struggled to find a use. i know the taste and don't see it in balti. it's like plain onion bhaji.
I can't see it being chilli on it's own as fresh green chilli is added direct.
I don't like the idea of it being a paste - chewy's overview of both paste and Pakistani BIR don't sit well on my experiences. an Indian lady a good while ago told me you don't "should not" need to use paste - it's a quick fix. all the curries i've not like in both Bradford and Rusholme rightly or wrongly i put down to the Pakistani take on BIR. there's nothing wrong with it just not what my taste buds are tuned to.
Dhal past - that's a possibility. i've never made Dhal and consequently need to park it if it is ingredient 12
having racked my mind i think i'm going to try making the Akash Balti paste (posted earlier in the post). if for nothing else than to put my mind at rest that it has no part to play. the split peas and the dhal suggestion have given me that extra push to give it a try.
ps it could of been base but the pots right there and looks nothing like.
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in short the turmeric unit is an error. the Birmingham Balti book quotes cumin at 30ml and turmeric at 15 ml ie 0.5 unit.
OK, understood Jerry -- many thanks for the clarification.
** Phil.
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very much appreciate you're ideas on the video. the "bowl" in question is at 03:01 and 05:24 in the video and has a yellow greenish color - i've never made anything like.
greenish?? Are we looking at the same bowl?
Les said green too, but i've viewed this on 2 different computers and looks like a mustard colour to me. ???
The first thing that sprung to mind was whizzed fried onions because of the colour.
Could it be mustard then?
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greenish?? Are we looking at the same bowl? Les said green too, but i've viewed this on 2 different computers and looks like a mustard colour to me. ??? The first thing that sprung to mind was whizzed fried onions because of the colour. Could it be mustard then?
Is this the bowl in question ?
** Phil.
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It could be blended onions as dalpuri suggests but as the only spice he mentions is garam masala I'd still put my money on it being a balti paste of some kind, possibly their own blend.
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Or even the common old G/G paste
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Never seen g/g paste that yellow, Les; if it /were/ that colour, even I might be worried that it was contaminated with something nasty, and that's a pretty rare occurrence !
** Phil.
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Never seen g/g paste that yellow, Les; if it /were/ that colour, even I might be worried that it was contaminated with something nasty, and that's a pretty rate occurrence !
** Phil.
It does look like a bit of a baby's nappy come to think of it ;D
Jerry never mentioned G/G on the list of ingredients, It was just a thought Phil
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I've heard people talk in hushed whispers about the Birmingham Baltis but unfortunatly missed the boat on that. I find it hard to understand the exact difference in taste between Balti and standard BIR.
It is very difficult to describe the difference between top end BIR and Balti. Both amazing in their own right. But the delicate balti flavours dance and sparkle so much. So a BIR Chicken madras could be a rumba, whereas a Balti chicken madras, would be a cha cha. But accordingly a BIR phal would be a tango, and there is not really a balti equivalent.
Rob :)
Fantastic explanation, not sure I'm any the wiser. ;D
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Jerry never mentioned G/G on the list of ingredients
Top row from left to right:
Turmeric or mixed powder, GM, Green peppers, tomato powder or paprika, green chillies, salt, fresh cori
2nd row:
Fresh chopped toms, methi, far right(the bowl in question)
3rd row:
Fresh chicken(out of shot), sliced onions.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/fb7a006a154ca4bfda3eeebda37b4e8f.jpg)
Now you say that Les, and looking at the table in full (bar the plate of chicken), it probably is just g/g a la the Ashoka method.
Mixed with either turmeric or a little mixed powder.
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Jerry never mentioned G/G on the list of ingredients
Top row from left to right:
Turmeric or mixed powder, GM, Green peppers, tomato powder or paprika, green chillies, salt, fresh cori
2nd row:
Fresh chopped toms, methi, far right(the bowl in question)
3rd row:
Fresh chicken(out of shot), sliced onions.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/fb7a006a154ca4bfda3eeebda37b4e8f.jpg)
Now you say that Les, and looking at the table in full (bar the plate of chicken), it probably is just g/g a la the Ashoka method.
Mixed with either turmeric or a little mixed powder.
DalPuri
Now I see it all out together, I think we have solved the 12th ingredient, It's the only thing missing ;)
Sorry Jerry, no secret stuff ;D
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Must ensure it's not a korma. Call our korma expert and have him do a forensic analysis on the picture.
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Must ensure it's not a korma. Call our korma expert and have him do a forensic analysis on the picture.
GEORGE, where are you ;)
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Made this last night and must admit it was one tasty balti. I made my own ghee- what a revelation that was! The shop bought stuff taints the food with an unpleasant odour, but the home made stuff gives the curry a richer, creamier flavour. Shall definitely make some more for my next curries. The base was the rcr balti one Ive been using for a while now, and the secret ingredient added was 1/2 tsp pomegranate seeds. I used 2 tsp of the Balti Spice mix, and the only other inclusion was 1 coarsely chopped tomato. I will omit the tomato next time round
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what expertise - thanks all and particularly Les
g/g it is. i would go with the mustard color too.
i've got mix and chef balti garam made. the balti garam i feel is a tad better than my norm - quite a suprise.
the spice mix is quite rough c/w my iffu class stuff. color looks good.
need to get base made. the mix and garam are much better than previous attempt. very promising.
first time i've really used garlic powder and quite taken to it in the mix powder.
ps the mix only has 0.5 unit turmeric at moment (even though table says 10). intend to up the amount towards 10 units depending how the curries go. i also had no ginger powder.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/2883e09cb7be3d415da4337855fdcd89.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#2883e09cb7be3d415da4337855fdcd89.JPG)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/362f6aa01470ec8f5ac7f85a151aa80c.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#362f6aa01470ec8f5ac7f85a151aa80c.JPG)
LH IFFU RH LB_BBC rev 1
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/7c269cb8571b93ab71fcebb56210d251.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#7c269cb8571b93ab71fcebb56210d251.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/139882319b9a5188b2ae954a717e5862.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#139882319b9a5188b2ae954a717e5862.jpg)
LH Balti RH my norm
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/05b68ff7e04259f94e04bed9779f2388.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#05b68ff7e04259f94e04bed9779f2388.jpg)
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added was 1/2 tsp pomegranate seeds.
Mickdabass,
curry looks very nice. the pomegranate (Anardana) caught my eye. i use it in kashmiri massala (parker21 and issiemc).
can you say where you used it - i guess you liked. if it was in the main dish then would be interested in the effect. i have same but in molasses which i've not tried out yet. it tastes very nice.
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Hi Jerry
I added the pomegranate seeds just before the second ladle of base went in (i use 3 ladles in total). They gave the dish a nice sweet acidity contrasting with the creaminess of the full fat milk in the base and the ghee really gave the dish an enhanced depth of flavour...at least that's my opinion anyway. They also gave the dish a little bit of a bite. Ive abandoned the lemon juice now in favour of the pomegranate seeds
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what expertise - thanks all and particularly Les
g/g it is. i would go with the mustard color too.
Your welcome Jerry,
Best of luck, Go crack this mother ;D
Les
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Made this last night and must admit it was one tasty balti. I made my own ghee- what a revelation that was! The shop bought stuff taints the food with an unpleasant odour, but the home made stuff gives the curry a richer, creamier flavour. Shall definitely make some more for my next curries. The base was the rcr balti one Ive been using for a while now, and the secret ingredient added was 1/2 tsp pomegranate seeds. I used 2 tsp of the Balti Spice mix, and the only other inclusion was 1 coarsely chopped tomato. I will omit the tomato next time round
Hi Mick. I havn't added much to this thread, I have been lurking in the background since it started just taking in what people have been writing. I think a proper balti is the epitome of all curries personally and would love to make one taste half as good as a decent TA and this one you've posted up looks awesome. Can I please ask, what is the RCR balti base that you used? I've not seen this mentioned on here before. This may be a stupid question but do baltis have specific bases all of their own that are different to standard BIR curries, ie madrases, bhunas etc?
Many Thanks
Mike
More stupid questions to follow... ::)
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More stupid questions to follow... ::)
No such thing Mike,
RCR is another curry site where you need to pay for recipes,
http://www.realcurryrecipes.co.uk/ (http://www.realcurryrecipes.co.uk/)
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Hi Mike.
Yes Baltis do have their own bases. Generally they use a fair few whole spices and a special GM too. I originally used the Kushi Base from this website and have had reasonable success with it. The recipe from the subscription website is a completely different animal. It contains a lot of full fat milk and frozen cauliflower!!
I didnt have any frozen cauli so I used fresh. The finished gravy had a different smell about it, and to be honest, I doubted the potential of it. As far as the way I cooked the curry, I didnt do anything different to how I would usually cook one ie G&G, Tom puree, Spices in (martinvics balti GM), ladle of gravy, oil separation, 1/2 tsp pomegranate seeds, ladle 2 of gravy, reduction & oil separation, 3rd ladle gravy, final reduction & serve
Not sure about copyright infringements etc so dont think I could post the recipe in the public domain.
Cheers
Mick
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RCR is another curry site where you need to pay for recipes,
Just to clarify, you don't have to pay for recipes. You pay for a subscription, which gives you access to a number of commercial and non-commercial recipes sourced by a variety of members. I'm a subscriber, but I don't use mine all that often and quite possibly won't be renewing my subscription as such. I found a few interesting tips, but they lack in forum usability/organization -- they do seem to be a friendly bunch, always eager to help. It's worth having an account if you are obsessing by this type of food or trying to start your own business.
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Thanks' for putting me right goncalo,
Wasn't quite sure how it worked. :-\
Les
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Hi Mike.
Yes Baltis do have their own bases. Generally they use a fair few whole spices and a special GM too. I originally used the Kushi Base from this website and have had reasonable success with it. The recipe from the subscription website is a completely different animal. It contains a lot of full fat milk and frozen cauliflower!!
I didnt have any frozen cauli so I used fresh. The finished gravy had a different smell about it, and to be honest, I doubted the potential of it. As far as the way I cooked the curry, I didnt do anything different to how I would usually cook one ie G&G, Tom puree, Spices in (martinvics balti GM), ladle of gravy, oil separation, 1/2 tsp pomegranate seeds, ladle 2 of gravy, reduction & oil separation, 3rd ladle gravy, final reduction & serve
Not sure about copyright infringements etc so dont think I could post the recipe in the public domain.
Cheers
Mick
Cheers, I would have thought with all that milk it would have looked a lot lighter than that to be honest. I'm gonna give this ago though I reckon.
People have also mentioned baltis having floral flavours present. I must admit it is debateable on whether or not the curries I have bought as baltis were what you would call authentic as far as Kushi and Adils etc go but I can't recall ever detecting anything that could be described as floral in one. Just a deep savoury taste. However I do posess a bottle each of rose water and kewra water. Are these worth adding a splash?
Also do you use standard mix powder in a balti as well as the balti masalas and what about normal garam masala?
Cheers
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Mike:
This is the Massala that I use with thanks to Martinvic who posted the recipe on page 1 of this thread (reply #22). I Warmed up the whole spices in a frying pan and then ground them up and added the powdered spices
INGREDIENTS FOR BALTI MASALA
Makes about 200g ( Or enough for 20 single servings)
3 Tablespoons coriander seeds
3 Tablespoons white cumin seeds
1 six inch piece of cinnamon broken into pieces
1 Tablespoon black peppercorns
1 Tablespoon fennel seeds
1 Tablespoon black mustard seeds
The seeds of six black cardamom pods (4 black 3 Green)
1 Tablespoon fenugreek seeds
1 teaspoon onion seeds
10 cloves
1 Tablespoon dried fenugreek leaves
1 Tablespoon dried mint leaves
30 dried curry leaves
7 bay leaves
2 Tablespoons turmeric
2 Tablespoon ground garlic powder
2 Tablespoons ground ginger powder
1 Tablespoon ground red chilli powder
1 Tablespoon Premium Curry Powder
1/2 Tablespoon Tandoori Masala powder
1/2 Tablespoon All Purpose Seasoning
Method
Place the seeds, cloves, cinnamon and peppercorns in a dry frying pan and dry fry over medium heat until the spices begin to smoke.
Place these spices along with all the leaves in a spice grinder or pestle and mortar and grind to a fine powder.
The Balti in the photo was made using 2 tsp of the above with 1/2 tsp pomegranate seeds. I didnt use any kerwa water that time, but previously I have used 1 - 2 tsp added a couple of minutes before serving. I have been experimenting with lemon juice but dont bother now. I think the pomegranate seeds add a little zest to the dish instead
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Cheers Mick. I'm really going to have to invest in a grinder asap! I took a trip to "the dark side" for the RCR gravy.:-X As soon as my current batch in the freezer is used up I'll make up this one. I'm going to attempt a recipe based on the info I have gleaned from the thread albeit an "educated stab in the dark"!.
I was thinking:
Balti Recipe
2 tbsp Ghee
1/2 Small Onion Sliced
1tsp G&G Paste
1tsp Tomato Puree
1tsp Methi
1tsp Chilli Powder
2tsp Martinvics Balti Masala
1/2 tsp Pomegranate Seeds (on order)
Pre-cooked Chicken
2-3 Ladles RCR Gravy
2 tsp Kewra Water
Pinch Garam Masala
Chopped Coriander to serve
I am intrigued by this kewra water even though it looks like it's a bit on the artificial side. (I bought East End brand) I also ordered some Tej Patta Indian Bay leaves so may use them in the Masala. I have never used them before so don't know how the flavour differs from European bay guess I'll have to wait and see.
Cheers for the inspiration.. I'll keep you posted. 8)
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Hi Mike
Just to be clear to everyone, it isn't my Balti Masala mix, I found it on the internet somewhere, but can't remember where.
The Bay leaves should be the Indian Tej Patta ones, nothing like European Bay, more cinnamon/cassia like.
Also the (4 black 3 Green) cardamoms is my alternative to just using the black ones, as other recipes only called for the green.
As for a coffee/spice grinder, I use one that came with a cheap Jug blender, and it does the job great.
So if you have a need for a Jug blender too, might be an option.
Martin
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mickdabass,
many thanks on pomegranate seed info. will add in on next dish (0.5 tsp).
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i've made the combined base and cooked 3 off dish.
i'm sticking with the 0.5 unit of turmeric in the mix powder. it feels like a key difference between Balti and BIR ie much more turmeric in BIR.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/0bb23133bbb953b3ed1679aa9640e138.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#0bb23133bbb953b3ed1679aa9640e138.JPG)
dish 1 & 2 were not brill - i smoked them too much. the base ended up with more oil in it than normal and together with the 1 chef added at the start of frying made too much.
on dish 3 i'd remembered my point 6 on the thoughts going forward - NOT to over cook a Balti. on dish 3 i merged each ingredient addition instead of cooking them through and this made a significant difference. was well pleased with dish 3. that perception that Balti is very hot fried is just plain wrong.
dish 3 recipe. going to try 0.25 tsp ajwain with the cumin seed at the start and the pomegranate seed as per mickdabass.
Current recipe:
oil 1 chef
Light grind cumin seed 0.5 tsp
crushed chopped garlic 1 clove
Sliced onion 1/2 onion
Sliced Green pepper 5 pieces
mix powder 0.5 tsp
Chef garam 0.5 tsp
methi 0.5 tsp
Blended tin Tomato 1 chef
meat
Base 300ml
Fine chopped Green chilli 1 off
Fresh coriander 1 Htbsp
fresh tomato segment 1 off
Lemon dressing 3 sec squirt
base for info:
Veg oil 700 ml (500 rec)
Veg ghee 30g
Onion 1000g
Ginger 1 inch (5%) 20 ml paste
Salt 9 or 11g
Black salt 9 or 11g
Garlic 50g 1 off bulb (5%)
green chilli 5g 1 off
Tom puree 30g
Cumin 5 ml
Coriander 10 ml
Chilli 2.5 ml
Turmeric 2.5 ml
Methi 5 ml (0.5%)
Paprika 5 ml
Balti chef garam 5 ml (0.5%)
Tin toms 200 g (20%)
Green cardamom 5 off
Bay 2 off
Anis 1 off
water (start 300 ml, 600 stage 2, 300 ml thinning)
Makes 2.4L or 8 portion
Thoughts lightly spiced, no ajwain Taste, oil weak, reddish colour
going forward i don't really see where it could be improved without having better feel for the real Balti House offering. going on memory is just not enough.
the only area i'd progressively look to improve is the oil taste. it could be the chef garam needs tweeking or just more garam in the base.
ps going to use the last 3 portions to cook my norm BIR - would be good if the same base could suit both Balti and BIR with just the dish ingredients being changed ie mix and garam.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/81ea4605014d296221e8c9f10b1d0c02.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#81ea4605014d296221e8c9f10b1d0c02.jpg)
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Cheers Mick. I'm really going to have to invest in a grinder asap! I took a trip to "the dark side" for the RCR gravy.:-X As soon as my current batch in the freezer is used up I'll make up this one. I'm going to attempt a recipe based on the info I have gleaned from the thread albeit an "educated stab in the dark"!.
I was thinking:
Balti Recipe
2 tbsp Ghee
1/2 Small Onion Sliced
1tsp G&G Paste
1tsp Tomato Puree
1tsp Methi
1tsp Chilli Powder
2tsp Martinvics Balti Masala
1/2 tsp Pomegranate Seeds (on order)
Pre-cooked Chicken
2-3 Ladles RCR Gravy
2 tsp Kewra Water
Pinch Garam Masala
Chopped Coriander to serve
I am intrigued by this kewra water even though it looks like it's a bit on the artificial side. (I bought East End brand) I also ordered some Tej Patta Indian Bay leaves so may use them in the Masala. I have never used them before so don't know how the flavour differs from European bay guess I'll have to wait and see.
Cheers for the inspiration.. I'll keep you posted. 8)
Looks good MM. Looking forward to reading your results
Thanks
Mick
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Heading out later for another tester. The Shahi Nan Kebab, Sparkhill. Five star rating by Andy Munroe.
Porn and blurb to follow.
Rob :)
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(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/6d83825f08760e31ccbe7d2632bb3dbc.jpg)
Balti chicken (
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Whizzed this one up last night with my usual curry base to see what would happen.
Balti chicken mushroom madras
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/405a59aeca4e0d7a5445de371b63c3af.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/f1260dcd9e4b90d08879fd154c1e7733.jpg)
Used Mangal Balti curry masala as suggested by Chewy. Have to say it was pretty dammed good. Quite a simple mix in terms of ingredients. Coriander, cumin, fennel, fenugreek, chillies, asophoetida, and mace. Also included some leg meat as per the Adil, and a pinch of Ajwain early on. A splosh of soy sauce and kewra water. A tiny pinch of All-Spice to finish. Lacked some of the real-deal balti magic, but looking forward to trying something along these lines again with a different base, and stuff.
Rob :)
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have cooked my 3 fav (and most made BIR) using the balti base and oil. i switched to my norm ingredients, method of cooking and mix powder. none of family could taste a difference. i feel if i did side by side with my norm base(s) and oil there would be a difference.
in short well pleased it means i can switch between the 2 and gradually progress balti. dishes were kashmiri, butter and mogul.
looks like i have 1 off portion of base left and intend to repeat previous Balti adding in 0.25 tsp ajwain with the cumin and 0.5 tsp pomegranate seed.
after that the key thing for me is to work on the Chef Garam to understand more of the difference between the Balti version i made and my norm stuff.
i feel at ballpark 7/10 at the moment on Balti.
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Good new Rob and Jerry. Good to see the hard work you're both putting in on this is beginning to pay off at last. Must be real hard eating all them takeways Rob, especially when they're below your normal standard ??? ;) Looking forward to further progress reports soon.
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made last dish ie dish 4. used 0.25 tsp ajwain with the cumin. found i had no pomegranate seed but used my pomegranate molasses (grendaine molasses on bottle).
i liked the ajwain - not overpowering but just sat in there nice. the pomegranate in this dish is not for me. of course the seeds will give a different result but i am happy with the dish as is - essentially based on the andy munro video.
it's as close as i can remember balti.
up next for me is to make my normal base and use it to make balti. this would be ideal as it would allow me to make BIR which i've missed yet gradually refine the current balti recipe over a few makes.
ps i used 7 sec count to fry the spices in oil and felt this a big improvement from pushing the frying. it's only 4 secs down from the 11 sec i used when i felt the dishes came out overcooked. shows how fine this cooking is.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/ec00034aa081e99454b53a9c376a2146.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#ec00034aa081e99454b53a9c376a2146.jpg)
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Myself and Goncalo attended the Kushi Cooking Course last week. It was, erm, interesting. More on that later. We also managed to fit in a couple of sit-down baltis, at the Adil, and another restaurant in the balti triangle, the Shabab. My balti chicken from the Adil was pretty spectacular again. By comparison I found the same dish from the Shabab decidedly average. Goncalo doesn't know this but I found a metal rivet in my Shabab balti. I thought one of fillings had fallen out, but I've just re-examined it, and it's definitely a bloomin' rivet! Also got some free popadoms, which was nice.
Rob :)
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I found a metal rivet in my Shabab balti. I thought one of fillings had fallen out, but I've just re-examined it, and it's definitely a bloomin' rivet! Also got some free popadoms, which was nice.
They only gave you those so that if you broke a tooth they could blame in on the popadom :)
** Phil.
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The Shabab card, and complementary rivet:
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/ce1352d74a1e9dcb2f5de6bea9d6f62f.jpg)
Quite relieved it was just a rivet Phil. Always embarrassing when a filling drops out when eating in a restaurant. I quickly stuck it in my pocket when no one was looking. However, when I checked next day my dentition appeared intact, and I started to wonder, if it's not my amalgam, then whose is it? This has been bothering me as I thought I'd lost it, but it turned up today on the bathroom window ledge. Phew!
Rob :)
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What a good job you are an honest and non-litigious chap, Rob. Some would immediately have deliberately damaged a crown and then sued the restaurant for punitive damages ...
** Phil.
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So I take it you would not class your visit to the Shabab as a riveting experience then Rob? ;D Or maybe it was ::)
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Myself and Goncalo attended the Kushi Cooking Course last week.
Rob :)
Hi Rob
Looking forward to your report on this
Regards
Mick
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I'll second that! Any major breakthroughs on making baltis? ;)
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So I take it you would not class your visit to the Shabab as a riveting experience then Rob? ;D Or maybe it was ::)
The food wasn't great. Still enjoyed the visit. The Shabab is pretty swish for a balti house. Nice decor, complete with HD TV advertising their dishes. Goncalo faired less well with his Balti chicken tikka jalfrezi, which I gather had been trashed with Patak's tikka paste, leaching from/added directly to the sauce. Not good. Fairly certain these sit-down baltis are served after the bowls have been sat in the oven for while. They are absolutely mad scorching hot, as Goncalo can confirm :) We had a great time chatting about all things curry though.
Rob :)
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I'll definitely write something up on the Kushi course. Didn't quite go to plan. Surprisingly, no balti(s). Basically, after a short intro to spices. we spent 2 hrs (max) in the kitchen watching Chef Ali make 3 dishes, handi style, one of which (pilau rice) ended up burnt beyond recognition. No hands on experience, except for peeling some onions and garlic. We got to sample the dishes, and that was about it.
Rob :)
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Just a quick note about the ajwain seeds/lovage seeds mentioned several times in this thread. As far as I can see, ajwain seeds are not lovage seeds but, rather, Bishop's Weed, carom or caraway seeds.
I know the TRS packaging says Ajwain Lovage Seeds, but both Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajwain) and this online health shop (http://www.healthysupplies.co.uk/trs-ajwain-100g.html) (among others) say different. The Indus Ajwain packaging (http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=272622026) also refers to its contents as caraway seeds.
I know its just a small point, but its as well to clear up the confusion as we go along, particularly as its such a pungent spice.
Out of interest, the Indus Organics website (http://www.indusorganics.com/Product-bishops-weed-ajwain.html) says this about ajwain: "In Indian cuisine, ajwain is almost never used raw, but either dry-roasted or fried in ghee or oil. This develops a much more subtle and complex aroma, somewhat similar to caraway but "brighter"."
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Good work Naga. Theyre not something Ive used before up till now. Ive got some carroway seeds somewhere as well so i can do a comparison. Ill fry some up in oil and compare aromas
Just for interest ive come across packets of european bay leaves marketed as tej patta by east end foods
Regards
Mick
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Just a quick note about the ajwain seeds/lovage seeds mentioned several times in this thread. As far as I can see, ajwain seeds are not lovage seeds but, rather, Bishop's Weed, carom or caraway seeds.
I know the TRS packaging says Ajwain Lovage Seeds, but both Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajwain) and this online health shop (http://www.healthysupplies.co.uk/trs-ajwain-100g.html) (among others) say different. The Indus Ajwain packaging (http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=272622026) also refers to its contents as caraway seeds.
/Just/ "caraway seeds", or ajowan caraway seeds ? They are completely different. Caraway seeds as used in (e.g.,) rye bread taste nothing like ajwain seeds. The latter taste quite remarkably like thyme.
** Phil.
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...Just for interest ive come across packets of european bay leaves marketed as tej patta by east end foods
Aye, Mick, I was conned into buying a couple of packets of those myself before I learned the truth of the matter from the resident forum gurus. I now have a supply of the real deal thanks to the kind offices of a forum benefactor. :)
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i'm now sorted on this.
i've cooked balti using BIR base. well pleased and feel gradual tweaking over time will sort fully (seeds a bit bitty and need to get mix of onion soft and crispy, decide on tom puree or tin tom). curry was an 8 and delicious.
i've increased the ajwain to 0.5 tsp. the ajwain is the spice needed and works a treat.
Finished recipe:
oil 1 chef
Light grind cumin seed 0.5 tsp
Light grind ajwain seed 0.5 tsp
crushed chopped garlic 1 clove
Sliced onion 1/2 onion
Sliced Green pepper 5 pieces
mix powder 0.5 tsp
Balti Chef garam 0.5 tsp
methi 0.5 tsp
Blended tin Tomato 1 chef or tom puree (i used tom puree 1 tbsp on last dish per unclefrank)
meat
Base 300ml
Fine sliced Green chilli 1 off
Fresh coriander 1 Htbsp
fresh tomato segment 1 off
Lemon dressing 3 sec squirt
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/37ee6e1a1349e3653bb8b585492e1c33.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#37ee6e1a1349e3653bb8b585492e1c33.jpg)
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Looks like a very nice curry indeed, Jerry. :)
Is the version of the GM you mention from this post (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,12276.msg100650.html#msg100650)?
I'm keen to try this out and I've planned Mick's Garlic Chilli Chicken Dopiaza to experiment on tonight.
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Absolutely looks the business Jerry. I'll have a go at making your recipe to spec soon. Thanks for all your work. Concur ajwain is a key ingredient for the real-deal balti. Noticed it in most of the dishes I've bought in, and particularly the Adil balti.
Rob :)
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Bengali Bob,
the thanks is all to you. i would never have made such progress without your post and efforts. simply brill.
Nagga,
the garam is as per the link. i do think there is too much cinnamon in it but the dishes turned out spot on. i'm going to look at "chef garam" next as the Balti garam turned out better i thought in some respects than my norm chef garam. for making decent balti this won't be an issue - it's very fine tuning.
the mix powder is as per the discussion but not the pic ie i did not increase the turmeric. i also did not add the ginger in as i did not have.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/4895b151536381eba46d6bc0e206e2ad.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#4895b151536381eba46d6bc0e206e2ad.JPG)
i've used black cumin with the ajwain at the start (oil frying) and may be worth giving a try. i feel the black cumin for this type of use to be better than the brown
my conclusions on the key Balti differences being;
1) adding lightly ground whole spice at the start of frying (ajwain & black cumin)
2) the use of both Balti garam and Balti mix
3) light frying of the spices (7 secs for me, 11 being too much)
going forward i see refinement through making the dish:
the things i have on my mind going forwards being:
a) is there a need to add in ginger paste
b) getting the lightly ground whole spice less bitty
c) getting both soft and crunchy onion
d) deciding on how to add tom (ie puree, tinned, passata). fresh segments needed irrespective
e) investigate differences between my chef garam and the balti garam
Balti recipe:
oil 1 chef
Light grind cumin seed 0.5 tsp
Light grind ajwain seed 0.5 tsp
crushed chopped garlic 1 clove
Sliced onion 1/2 onion
Sliced Green pepper 5 pieces
mix powder 0.5 tsp
Chef garam 0.5 tsp
methi 0.5 tsp
Blended tin Tomato 1 chef
meat
Base 300ml
Fine chopped Green chilli 1 off
Fresh coriander 1 Htbsp
fresh tomato segment 1 off
Lemon dressing 3 sec squirt
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Thanks, Jerry! I made up the spice mix powder and garam masala as per your spec to use in my attempted Baltification of CBM's Garlic Chilli Chicken last night. My grinder broke last week, but so keen was I to try the Balti mixes, I resorted to drying/roasting the whole spices in the oven and grinding them using a mortar and pestle. Never again! I doubled up on your suggested quantities and it took me over an hour to get anywhere near a fine grind!
Anyway, your suggested mix powder and GM worked well and the curry was very nice indeed! Bear in mind, of course, that I've never had a "proper" Balti curry, so I wouldn't know what taste to expect. But, notwithstanding that caveat, it was a good curry.
I think I'll try a stripped-down curry next time, though, as it was difficult to get a handle on what was what with all the competing flavours in the Garlic Chilli Chicken. I'll probably try your own Balti Chicken recipe as it's relatively straightforward and looks pretty good to boot! :)
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Naga,
real dedication - pestle and mortar. i've thrown mine out to prevent such an occurrence. ebay for an electric version.
not sure if i stated anywhere that i've used bassar as the curry powder. i think any curry powder would do but bassar just feels a tad more accurate.
stripped-down curry sounds right to me for balti. someone wrapped it up saying layers of flavour - these are already in so to speak. it's probably another key difference between Balti and BIR - the competing flavours seems to suit BIR. Balti chicken or even chicken and mushroom would be as far as i would go.
best wishes
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Made your Balti Chicken for the family tonight, Jerry. It was great! :)
(No photos this time around as I was also in the middle of making Aussie Mick's highly-recommended Karahi along with chips, fish fingers and sweetcorn for my grandson!)
If you reckon that this was a decent stab at a Balti (bearing in mind I've never knowingly had one), and you rated it 8/10, then I can say for sure that I definitely like balti curries!
I changed/added a couple of things according to what I had handy and what I read in this thread:
1. I used the spice mix you specified in the spreadsheet, which I think is your bassar mix. I would normally use Abdul Mohed's 8-Spice mix powder.
2. I used mickdabass's chicken tikka.
3. I substituted salt with a tsp of light soy sauce.
4. I added a tsp of kewra water at the end of cooking time.
5. I used my interpretation of Rob's base gravy. As far as I know, it hasn't been transcribed in full here, but with a little scouting around and some informed guesswork, I managed to create a light and sweet golden-coloured base which wouldn't overpower the final dish with intrusive flavour or heat.
I'll be making this again very soon in (hopefully) less hectic circumstances and I'll get some photos up.
Thanks for your specific work on this, Jerry, and thanks to everyone else who has pushed this thread along. Onwards and upwards! :)
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Naga,
well pleased it went well.
the mix in the spreadsheet calls for curry powder - i use bassar in place of this ie it's part of the mix powder. you could add whatever curry powder anyone has to hand ie rajah and it would still work. the bassar just gives some dishes including this one an edge.
the only thing i guess on my balti wish list that i've not mentioned is to crack the naan bread but i don't see that being any easier.
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Good luck with the naan bread, Jerry. I wish I could help, but I seem to have no skill when it comes to all things dough. Quite the reverse!
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Nice to see all the hard work paying dividends. Rob and Jerry have put a lot into working this issue. Good to see some feedback from their own results too. When i get a bit more time i'll explore the balti. At present have enough to be going on with.
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Excellent work Bob and Jerry.
Thanks you both for helping me with this dish too. Much appreciated
Regards
Mick
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Had another TA from the Adil today, consisting of sheek kebab, Balti meat (requested madras hot), and mushroom naan.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/521a974184c8b120c7de7314436e8214.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/bd375fae64c0c563c2d79dc938ea94aa.jpg)
Scores. Naan (5/10), kebab (8/10), balti (10/10).
Rob :)
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Check this out. Last night's dinner. 100 % real-deal Birmingham balti. Home made. Thanks Jerry!
Balti chicken (madras hot)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/1c3dfbe933562b7d9dffa564d17997f6.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/9ce968c58a22a9dd156c3799bf156f4a.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/6bc7ec43f63dddffb724f004afe5dcd6.jpg)
Heavenly. Even with an Asda naan.
Rob :)
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Does this mean the balti has now been cracked Rob :o :o ;D
Very tasty looking dish. Shame about the naan though. I could have e-mailed you a better one ;)
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Well done Bob
Does look good Shame about the naan ;D
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Begali Bob,
that made Balti chicken (madras hot) looks really top notch - well pleased and impressed.
did you do anything different to get the red colour closer.
looking forward to ideas on the recipe too.
ps
to get anywhere close to the Adil will be real achievement. i felt it was crackable in time but not an easy challenge for sure.
over new year was in west mids and tried Bangladeshi balti in a curryhouse i've known for years - very poor yet the Bangladeshi meals are 2nd to none. quite an eye opener. in fact showed how far we have collectively travelled.
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Balti looking good, great colour on the ASDANAAN ;) :P
Haway then Rob, shake a leg :o
Put the Bl++dy recipe up and put an end this Balti Quest/Saga.
otherwise it'll be like another UB's Naan fiasco or H4ppys ebook ::) ::)
Its got to be something simple 8)
waiting, waiting ...... ;D ;D
cheers Chewy
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Looks the business Bob. Looking forward to the recipe too
Regards
Mick
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Jerry's recipe and method. Added a slug of soy sauce. Kashmiri mirch.
Tonight's effort:
Pre-cooked duck breast.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/fa8b2a10d0629bd2d88827c307e88a90.jpg)
Balti garlic duck and mushroom (madras hot)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/32859bea8988f33d7bcdf97dc936b5f4.jpg)
Luxurious.
Rob :)
Will post some thoughts/blurb on the recipe.
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Very nice Bob
Fancy a glass of port before I finish it off :)
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this is the very revised recipe that i've tried once and passed onto Bob.
it's still in work - i've not even typed it up pukka. the colour was not red enough for me. i felt it was close to the adil but still some way off. i was going to try blended tin toms on the next make. the lamb dish "meat balti" is my (i think our - the balti 3) ultimate objective though. am sure it had stock in it which worked a dream.
oil 60ml
balti mix 0.5 tsp 2.5 ml
adil gm 0.5 tsp
chilli powder 0.5 tsp
tom puree in water 2 tbsp (30 ml) (8 tbsp inc water or 2 chef 120 ml)
garlic powder 1 htbsp (~45 ml)
base 300 ml
the "adil" gm is the same status - i've made 1 off batch. it's close but not quite there. hence the need for the 100g scales.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/f0f1c1c32856b9eb5bffa1deaefe1939.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#f0f1c1c32856b9eb5bffa1deaefe1939.JPG)
forget the decimal places. column 1 is full batch and column 2 a quarter batch which was the size i made. i quickly realised there was too much error in my 5g scales and measuring spoons were not much help either.
overall was well pleased and hopefull. looks very much like Bengali Bob has moved it on with very pleasing pics
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Very excited about progress on the Balti after trying Jerry's recipe/method for just two dishes. The first was made using Adil GM made by Jerry. The second used Adil GM made by the chef at the restaurant. Not much between the finished results taste/quality-wise, in my opinion. I'll be able to do the comparison again, but this time both will be Balti chicken. Didn't have any chicken to use the other day. I haven't tried the garlic powder addition as yet. Interestingly, although perhaps not so surprising, both of the dishes didn't quite match the Adil. But this matters not, it's still early days and matching a dish precisely to a restaurant will indeed be no mean task. What is significant is that the dishes so far are without a doubt 100 % Birmingham balti. So had they been ordered from another balti house I'd have been well-pleased. Everything was there, common to the dish everywhere I tried where it is made authentically. The fresh flavours, aromas, layers, and textures.
Consequently, I do feel Jerry has reproduced/nailed arguably one of the most elusive (and tricky) dishes out there. Of course it's still rather subjective, as few of us on here have even tried a Birmingham balti, and won't know what the "fuss" is all about. However, their popularity (in Birmingham) is a given. As mentioned elsewhere, the Birmingham balti is completely different to a BIR one. They just ain't the same thing. That said from the right place, and on the right night, both BIR (except balti) and Balti are both fantastic. Does that make any sense? :D Anyway, I'm already thinking there are elements of the Balti I'd like to have the option of introducing to some of my BIR efforts. In particular the smokiness. Jerry mentioned the Balti meat (lamb) from the Adil is probably what we're working to, and I'd agree with that, solely on the remarkably smoky flavours, presumably imparted via the stock used. Top end smoky BIR and Birmingham balti dishes. It would be nice to master both.
The key to the Birmingham balti I feel, as identified by Jerry, is how lightly ground whole spices are cooked (see Jerry's posts). Sure enough, when Jerry acquired some of the Adil GM from the restaurant, it turned out to be very lightly ground/coarse, possibly just rubbed. How the GM and other spices are cooked and for how long defines the unmistakable Balti taste. I did as Jerry indicated, frying briefly and then quenched with diluted tomato puree. Bingo! Ingredient-wise cumin and ajwain are surely fundamental to the dish. The most obvious aroma of the Adil GM (it's very pronounced) is actually cumin. I first felt that the amount of lemon dressing fired into my balti efforts as per the recipe was going to have a disastrous effect. It didn't. When I made the second dish and tried it before serving, I immediately knew I'd left something out. I'd forgot the lemon. Another important thing is that the Birmingham balti can be made with a standard BIR base. One thing that has been holding me back is the notion that a special gravy is needed. It seems not. Nice one Jerry! I'll add more later.
Rob :)
I've been thinking of ways to increase smokiness by adding some extra ingredient. Soy sauce, Maggi liquid seasoning, smoked paprika etc., molasses, black cardamom, for example, many of which it seems are used in Balti/BIR cooking, at some point, according to the books available. But I'm not so sure. My progress in BIR cooking has been helped, I feel, by not using overly-complicated recipes. The chef's I've watched also invariably keep it simple in terms of ingredients, which again points to technique being vital. With that in mind this link is quite interesting. Applicable to all things curry perhaps, including the Balti?
http://www.splendidtable.org/story/8-ways-to-extract-unique-flavors-from-whole-spices (http://www.splendidtable.org/story/8-ways-to-extract-unique-flavors-from-whole-spices)
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With that in mind this link is quite interesting. Applicable to all things curry perhaps, including the Balti?
http://www.splendidtable.org/story/8-ways-to-extract-unique-flavors-from-whole-spices (http://www.splendidtable.org/story/8-ways-to-extract-unique-flavors-from-whole-spices)
Acrabat (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,12111.msg97079.html#msg97079) picked up on that one in mid-2013, Rob.
** Phil.
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With that in mind this link is quite interesting. Applicable to all things curry perhaps, including the Balti?
http://www.splendidtable.org/story/8-ways-to-extract-unique-flavors-from-whole-spices (http://www.splendidtable.org/story/8-ways-to-extract-unique-flavors-from-whole-spices)
Acrabat (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,12111.msg97079.html#msg97079) picked up on that one in mid-2013, Rob.
** Phil.
Yes, so he did. Didn't create a great deal of interest. Is it old hat? I've ordered the book anyway.
Rob :)
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It certainly wasn't old-hat to me; I thought it provided very useful insights into the food chemistry of spices. Did you order the
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Hmm. I've paid
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Hmm. I've paid
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Just checking out the Mr. Daves website. Another famous Balti house. Got a new delivery service. Takes 2-3 days. Now, I was thinking, would my balti not be cold by then? Turns out they arrive frozen. Can't see the idea taking off myself. See what you think.
www.misterdaves.com (http://www.misterdaves.com)
Rob :)
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www.misterdaves.com (http://www.misterdaves.com)
I would be willing to give it a try. It is basically the same model that my wife persuaded her aunt and uincle to adopt in their first Oriental T/A : prepare the dishes for the punters customers to cook at home. Admittedly they were chilled, not frozen, but the basic concept is the same.
** Phil.
Ah, just spotted the catch :
No minimum order value. Delivery is
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Just checking out the Mr. Daves website.
They've sold these out of Spar freezers for as long as i've lived in Wales. (roughly 15 years)
Dreadfully bland! :(
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Can someone enlighten me on something I heard a long time ago? I remember that someone told me that part of the flavour of balti is created when the curry is poured into the very hot balti pan before serving. I was led to believe that this is what caused the smokyness.
Is this nonsense or some myth I've picked up from somewhere.
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Interesting that fried. Not sure. The Birmingham balti is served in the same dish it is cooked in. Can add that the 2 I made did have background smokiness, very nice too, but in the meat balti we had from the Adil it was significantly more noticeable, and downright gorgeous to be honest. Jerry may have some thoughts on this.
Rob :)
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Right now having my first Balti with you Bob that smokiness was only in the Lamb dish for some reason and I do not know why it was not in the chicken and if my theory is right then they were cooked differently ( I hope this is gonna make sense ) ;D
I remember distinctively the flavour and saying I have produced that briefly at home
And it was the first time I came on to the Forum when people were experimenting on singeing the spices first in oil and then with the tom puree and remember the flames coming out of the pan so high and the first year cooking on this forum I had no eyebrows
Also I could be completely wrong
Cheers Michael
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Dunno. Can't see them doing much different for the dish itself Michael. The "basic" flavours I felt were in all we had there, including your Bombay aloo, which we agreed didn't really work/wasn't great. No depth of flavour in that one. I swear they even put a similar GM in the chilli dip; slightly smoky. I can taste it every time. The Balti meat was a bit extra special though. My money is on the pre-cooked lamb/stock. Could be that this is affected in some way by very high temp/flames, before or/and after it is added to the dish. I don't fancy singeing my eyebrows though. Give it a go and report back. ;D
Rob :)
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Just tried heating oil high then putting spices etc in the pan no base just the spices and tomato to see if I could get that smell
Got the flames But not the smell ??? Ive definitely had that smell in my kitchen though
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Here's another for the smoky theories.
Had a TA a few weeks back and out of all the dishes ordered, one stood out on flavour.
It was called Baygum Bahar, Chicken tikka in a dry keema based curry. Delicious and very smoky.
It was the only dish that had the smoky flavour.
Last week i had another TA from the same place (all different dishes were ordered) and there was no smoky flavour at all in any of the dishes. :(
BUT.... it was there in the poppadoms...... :o :)
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From last night. Got this one wrong.
Balti chicken
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/e293a369ae928abacfb635f61561197c.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/971d79650c23105146335d153573af1b.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/870a1af55cdb2abe4154b2917857cdfe.jpg)
Used a bit too much onion, base gravy slightly too thick (needs to be very thin) and the phone went whilst cooking. Nice curry, but the flavours segued into one. All the fresh balti aromas vanished. Not saucy enough. Basically overcooked. Another chicken tonight; itching to have a go at a Balti lamb. Think I'll cook in a bowl and see if we can't get a few proper flames thrown in to boot.
Rob :)
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lemon dressing - realised from Bengali Bob's post about same that i think i will have added too even though my notes did not list. i add it (5 sec squirt) to all dishes and it's become second nature to me.
on the smokey flavour - it was only strong in the meat balti. i felt it was different to the stock taste. i can produce the smokey taste (see CA's post on it). how it's done on Balti though might be related to the black bowl. i don't believe balti is cooked in the serving dish. i think the serving dish is heated in an oven or over a hob flame to a very hot temp with a little oil in it. chris303 described the process some years ago. the DalPuri Taste Nottingham video (mogal-e-azam) shows a garlic "tarka" version.
the lamb and stock is the next up for me.
really good report and side by side testing by Bengali Bob - much appreciated
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The Birmingham balti is served in the same dish it is cooked in.
I think I'm probably in agreement with Jerry on this one. I find it very hard to believe they don't cook the curry in a bog standard frying pan and then pour it into a Balti bowl afterwards.
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Looks like a very nice curry indeed, Jerry. :)
Is the version of the GM you mention from this post (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,12276.msg100650.html#msg100650)?
I'm keen to try this out and I've planned Mick's Garlic Chilli Chicken Dopiaza to experiment on tonight.
So sorry for being so dumb ! but is there any way the recipe can be explained a little simpler as i'm not sure what to make of it
sorry guys ' so looking forward to dipping my nan in that
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okmate,
the balti mix powder is at the Naga link ie for the curry powder i used bassar but any would do to start with
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/2883e09cb7be3d415da4337855fdcd89.JPG)
the GM or chef garam at the Naga link has now been revised to:
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/f0f1c1c32856b9eb5bffa1deaefe1939.JPG)
the dish recipe is still in work but currently is here http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,12276.msg102622.html#msg102622 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,12276.msg102622.html#msg102622)
say if things still don't make sense
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been chewing over Bengali Bob's in depth report.
base - i am using "BIR" base for the Balti dishes. the "balti" base that i started with was poor in comparison and needed much work. i do think though to get Balti 100% there we will need to get a "Balti" base. a taster session next year at the adil would fit the bill.
roasting the chef garam - i was not sure from the adil if they roast the GM or not. it did not taste like it had been roasted. so far i've just ground the seeds "lightly" as Bengali Bob outlined.
i've had a go at making pre cooked lamb (1st time) - i ended up using the IFFU pre cook chicken recipe but aligned with Mickdabass recipe and method. in short i left out the turmeric and added in black cardamom and pimento "clove". aiming to cook meat balti tonight.
going to add 1 chef of the stock into the dish. it's very hard to judge how the stock should taste as we only know the finished dish taste. i felt it needed ajwain in the stock but that may well find it's way via the GM.
quite enjoying the journey and see it keeping me busy for the next year. still waiting for my 100 Balti book. the jewelry scales from ebay are naff too so will need to buy different.
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Thanks for taking the time to piut this up Jerry. I was just about to ask for the spice mix recipe, and there it is. I'll be having a try at my first ever balti this evening.
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Right this smokiness I have come across before and its bugging me :)
Now yesterday I was walking through my local town to replace two bunches of parsley that I thought was coriander yes school boy error and I could smell the smokiness
I looked across the road and a West Indian barbecue stall was set up and a big oil drum on its side used to cook the food
Now this oil drum was closed so it looked like a whole drum apart from a pipe ( chimney ) coming out of it
to release the smoke
Then the second part of this story I got home and was looking at a few recipes in the India cook book
and one recipe said to impose a smoky flavour light a bit of charcoal put it in your dish on a onion skin and let it smoke with the lid on
I'm not saying they do this in the kitchen but I would say its worth a go
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Link to Ade in Britain ep18 West Midlands (for anyone who missed it)
Cooking at Adils @ 24 mins
http://www.novamov.com/video/be1d913195919 (http://www.novamov.com/video/be1d913195919)
p.s. watch out for ads if you dont have any ad blocking extensions on your browser ;)
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Here's my effort from last night.
(http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s404/fried71/balti2_zps91b6ead2.jpg) (http://s1050.photobucket.com/user/fried71/media/balti2_zps91b6ead2.jpg.html)
As mentioned before I've never tried a 'real' balti, so I have no idea if the taste was correct. However it was lovely, a different taste to the usual BIR fare, lots more subtle, flavours. I could still taste it hours after eating.
I used CT's base, Viceroy pre-cooked chicken with an added black cardamom. I used a good chef's spoon of the stock, and started the recipe with the oil. http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,11787.msg93209.html#msg93209 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,11787.msg93209.html#msg93209)
The mix and GM were GerryM's, except I found I had no garlic powder, other than that to spec (as acccurately as I can measure).
I fried the gg paste, added the spice mix + GM + Chilli (doubled up) and fried for a lot shorter time than usual. Quenched with Blended toms (I had a lot leftover from the pre-cooked chicken)
Then cooked as normal, I used fresh lemon as usual. I then added a tsp of soy sauce (dark).
I was concerned that as I was going for Madras hot this might've killed the subtler flavours and also that by using the pre-cooked chicken stock I might also be blurring everything together. I guess I'll never know unless I visit Birmingham.
Once of my best ever. I'll certainly be trying it again. I even have leftovers for lunch, I may report back with a second tasting. Thanks to all who made this possible.
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Good stuff fried. Also been thinking along the same lines regarding the pre-cooks. Mine (very similar to Viceroy) have a heady stock/spiced oil, laden with Asian bay, cassia, green or black cardamom. Made a "lighter" lamb pre-cook this weekend for a Balti lamb. Will post a few pics later. Result was an excellent quality Birmingham balti, but still unsure about the pre-cooks as yet. Be interesting to see how Jerry tackles it. One thing I did was swap Asian bay for European. Been having my doubts as to whether tej is part of the balti taste, at the amounts I use anyway. One thing Goncalo and I picked up at the Kushi was which variety of bay was used there. At the Kushi it is only Euro bay. Chef Ali was quite adamant about this. However, he then went on to explain that there is absolutely no difference between the two (Tej and Euro), which threw us somewhat.
Rob :)
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I'm going to try it with just raw chicken next time to get an idea of the difference.
I'd heard the bay thing mentioned before...probably from you or Goncalo, don't know what to make of it.
Any thoughts on dried rose in the GM?
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well pleased on feedback from fried.
also well timed the video link by Dalpuri. Mohamed is for sure the main man who we met.
i have the video recipe as:
oil
fat squat green chilli sliced
fresh tomato sliced
ginger/garlic paste
green pepper sliced
meat
chilli pwdr
crushed red chilli
tandoori masala
GM
methi
base
have tried the tandoori masala tonight and well pleased - adopted for sure - has sorted my difficulty on getting the colour right. it also balances out the GM. i used 0.5 tsp.
feedback on the meat balti - did not go well feeling of running before i can walk. made 3 off to the posted recipe adding in pre cooked lamb (mixture of IFFU chicken and Mickdabass). the dishes did not go down well and i feel i'm off lamb for a while till i get the basic adil sauce right - essentially too any variables otherwise.
thoughts from the 3 off meat balti:
1) don't add too much smoke - kills the spice taste
2) any meat stock needs reducing - i used 1.5 chef from the lamb pan without reduction and even during the dish frying reduction was not enough
3) don't add the garlic powder with the spices. needs to go in after the base
4) don't use chopped tin toms - not for me anyway needs to be fresh
pic meat balti
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/2aa4ef604355f8aa2184e15359d81f9b.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#2aa4ef604355f8aa2184e15359d81f9b.jpg)
best dish this week so far:
oil 1 chef
garlic paste 1 tsp
balti mix 0.5 tsp
balti gm 1.0 tsp
chilli pwdr 0.25 tsp
tandoori masala 0.5 tsp (many thanks Dalpuri)
lemon dressing 5 sec squirt
fresh coriander large pinch (4 finger thumb)
base 300 ml
water 75 ml (thin for the garlic powder)
next up going to add in squat green chilli and methi.
ps for those who like bunjarra i've been adding it in to compare side by side and does not sit out of place
have also tweaked the balti GM using the new scales: brings out the ajwain a bit more
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/63209190533096446a3205d1b9bbe64c.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#63209190533096446a3205d1b9bbe64c.JPG)
also been searching for white cumin but no luck
Bengali Bob - what a star man.
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My first go at the Adil Balti meat. Just guesswork on the stock/pre-cook. But the meat "stock" in the dish from the Adil reminded me a lot of the Kabana in Manchester (also Pakistani) but without the Adil smokiness, or much less at any rate. So I was thinking on-the-bone for the pre-cook to start with. Few pics below. Sorry I can't be specific about quantities. Have a habit of throwing things together, and then trying to remember what I've done afterwards. :D
About 750 g of mutton mix-cut on-the-bone, meat tenderiser powder, lemon juice, G/G, and left for an hour. Then rubbed in some smoked paprika (made this before I read CA's/Jerry's thread on introducing smokiness to dishes), a few green cardamoms and 1 black. European bay. A tsp of Jerry's Adil GM. Why I didn't use Jerry's spice mix instead I will never know; it'll be going in next time. Sunflower oil (next time veg oil).
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/9e2f516c84e0e62617a5162d2b3059aa.jpg)
Then added a thin blended onion/water mix (over 1 L) with a stock cube. Found these recently at a Pakistani grocers. No idea what is in them, but they smell spot on. :)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/804e5731c8ed5370ebaf3b830d950c02.jpg)
Boiled until the meat was tender enough for de-boning. I think about 2 hrs; could have been longer.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/9ea320034d1fb1ed3e8ddb1465ed51b9.jpg)
Finished pre-cook.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/054a699e4f6a0bf7caa1d7b6054a5e89.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/3787b77a3e8fd9f3b8603ec4cc133944.jpg)
Balti then made as per Jerry's recipe. Went with 1 1/2 cs of oil to start with and a good tbsp of pre-cook oil/stock. Opted for a smaller pan this time (lower sides) and full tilt on the 4 kW burner to flame.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/ab315e36aafc832ec6499c6e69e28e1b.jpg)
Balti meat
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/102c0ba7ff46042c4552df95ae3a8ca7.jpg)
Not bad, but kicking myself for not including spice mix in the pre-cook. Plenty flames cooking (what fun!) but no physical smoke really, and smokiness in the dish was limited, in the background somewhere; probably just from the paprika.
Interesting development on the tandoori massala. Thanks to DalPuri. I'll also try this next time, and switch back to standard chilli powder (instead of Kashmiri). Have been using bullet chillies for a while (nice!). They do like using them at the Adil (e.g. chilli bhaji). I think rose petal is probably out for the Adil. No kewra either. I could be wrong. The "floral" aroma is subtle at the Adil; possibly just from the ajwain seeds? Will be sticking with a slug of soy, for a bit of fusion. ;D
Rob :)
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Dont mind rose, but cant stand Kewra!
Depending which brand you buy, i suspect the floral notes could come from the tandoori masala powder.
I'd favour Rajah myself (very zingy and floral) and even though i hated it at first, it does grow on you. :P
Have tried two other brands and they were rubbish in comparison. Very different flavours from all three tried.
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Bengali Bob,
well impressed on the pre cook - i think you've cracked it. the complaint from the family was that is was not tender enough - the tenderiser pwdr and longer cook would do it for me. my complaint was that depth of taste was not there like the adil. the idea of boiling off the stock does not fit my idea of BIR and that stock cube sounds just right - will look for it.
for info i still don't know what produces the smokey taste per the CA post. i know extra oil makes the difference. i think but really no idea that cooking the dish longer when the craters appear could well be it - the thinking being that the oil on the inside of the pan is burning and that smoke then dissipates through the craters. why i think this is that i can't put my finger on anything else. i've tried rocket heat and flaming and both don't do it. i also don't have the smokey taste after the spice fry off ie at quench
won't help 1 bit but my struggle is to keep the smokey down. too much spoils that spice combination "layers of flavour" that the adil has crafted so well.
i too like the rajah tandoori masala. i currently have trs but that's due to it's main use which is for pizza "tikka" topping. i'd never tried adding to dish and well impressed on the result for balti.
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Have you tried using Pat Chapman's Tandoori Masala mix from his Balti curry cookbook? I'm not a big fan of much of his stuff, but the TM is top drawer, the recipe is available on this site somewhere and all over the net. It contains mango powder and mint. I prefer it to the brand stuff.
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Have you tried using Pat Chapman's Tandoori Masala mix from his Balti curry cookbook? I'm not a big fan of much of his stuff, but the TM is top drawer, the recipe is available on this site somewhere and all over the net. It contains mango powder and mint. I prefer it to the brand stuff.
Totally agreed fried. I use the recipe from his restaurant cookery book and to be honest, IMHO i think it will be hard to beat.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,8700.msg77458.html#msg77458 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,8700.msg77458.html#msg77458)
As for all you balti addicts, keep up the fantastic work. A great carry over thread from 2013. The amount of work you are putting in along with all the feedback, you deserve success. Then we can all benefit ;D ;D ;D Some seriously good looking food being produced during the experimental stage though :P :P Well done to all involved in the balti quest ;)
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It's really great fun tinkering around now, with the knowledge that an authentic Birmingham balti will be the result, whatever happens, thanks to Jerry's light-grind spicing/method. Going to get some Rajah tandoori masala this week. The only one in my cupboard at the moment is Mangal. Was musing last night back to when Goncalo and I visited the Adil. Was a good meal, but I do remember thinking something didn't seem quite right. Got some strange "raw" (bitter) after-taste towards the end of my Balti chicken. Passed it off then as due to eating curry a few hours earlier at the Kushi; lost appetite. Now wondering if it could have been over-liberal tandoori masala. That would do it for sure. Have known for some time that ordering curry in Birmingham early week can be hit or miss. Chances are it's (head) chef's night off. Our visit then was on a Monday. There were also other "strange happenings" on Ladypool Road the next night, with the rivet incident. But perhaps more concerning was the appearance of chicken tikka chunks with no skewer hole! :o How does that work? Very strange. Actually, in the back of my mind I was a little apprehensive re-visiting the Adil, with Michael and Jerry, to learn their opinion of the Adil offerings, and of course in particular, the balti. Michael had never tried one before, but Jerry knew exactly what was expected. Sound's daft, but when he first sampled the balti I almost felt as if I'd cooked it myself and, "Masterchef" final style, waited patiently for the expert verdict. :D Quite a relief when it got the big thumbs-up. :) Phew! But is was a Saturday night. The starters were a bit naff though. Michael was unlucky and got the smallest tandoori lamb chop I have every seen. ;D
Hoping to get back there this weekend. Want to try one of the on-the-bone karahi dishes. A karahi is pretty much the only other curry you can get at the Adil apart from a balti. There is a small separate menu for them under the glass-topped tables. I learned previously from one of the lads there that this is essentially their staff curry. Be interesting to savour/compare the stock used for the karahi to that in the balti meat. My money is on them being very similar, and the pre-cooks. The stock I made was on the right lines, I think. Will certainly include the Bassar spice mix next time. Makes sense, just by comparison to Bangla chefs matching their mix powder (pre-cook to dish). Must have a check through the various balti books again. Going to try shoulder mutton next time. Can't see best leg mutton going into balti. It costs more and actually tastes quite different I feel to the tougher cuts. The mix cut I used previously will have been leg, shoulder and neck. No more neck; it's not lean enough for the balti. Next time I'll get the butcher to de-bone the meat and keep the bones. Might get the pressure cooker out. Staying with the stock cube. Will try to find out what they contain. It's always nice to to know what you are eating. :D Stock cubes do seem to appear in Pakistani curry/karahi recipes quite regularly. I've seen a few where chicken stock cubes are part of lamb dishes. May be worth a go.
Do miss that amazing smokiness though. I'll have to get that somehow. Onwards!
Rob :)
Keeping an open mind on the balti base gravy. The "Istafa" base gravy recipe (100 Best Balti Curries) looks interesting.
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cooked 2 off further balti (plain chicken) both with the squat chilli added and 1 with methi added.
i fine chopped the squat green chilli and added to the oil per the adil video. the fine chopped worked a treat but will try adding after the base next time (just a preference).
the methi was disappointing - made the dish darker - pic below. i also felt the clarity of the flavours was masked (used 0.5 tsp). added it after the base per the adil video. i feel it is used in the meat balti but not convinced it's used in the plain balti. i'm dropping it.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/7e2d435b8d225f1ca39cbf34fa3c1c50.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#7e2d435b8d225f1ca39cbf34fa3c1c50.jpg)
i'm pretty happy already with the result. for me it's an 8 with the adil a 10. i don't have a feel on what would bridge the gap except for making it more and gaining that understanding of what slight variation does as i get a better feel for the dish.
things on my mind though being:
1) balti sauce - from meat cooking. this could play a part in the plain or chicken balti dish
2) ginger - i'm not using any and this could be wrong
3) i'm was getting too much smokey taste and have reduced oil back down from 6 tbsp to 4 tbsp. i'd like to get balti dish to try out the pre heating with oil
4) like to add back in fresh garlic in place of bought paste
5) can the garlic powder be reduced to say 1 tbsp - feel it's causing sticking around pan rim
6) need to get Bengali Bob's stock cube
7) for myself to add in the crushed red chilli - just to get a madras hotness
8 ) would pre cooked par boiled service onion work
9) long term perhaps need to work on a balti base
10) need to exclude "white" cumin - the adil cumin looked grey and not like i've seen before
ps have now got 100 Balti book and feel it has learning to be gained which will help the journey and close the gap further.
well pleased and will make this dish regular from now on.
best dish this week after 7 makes:
oil 1 chef (60 ml)
fine chopped squat fat green chilli 15 ml (0.5 chilli seeds removed)
garlic paste 1 htsp
balti mix 0.5 tsp
balti gm 1.0 tsp
chilli pwdr 0.25 tsp
tandoori masala 0.5 tsp (many thanks Dalpuri)
tom puree 2 chef (watered 3:1 puree) Nb missed from previous recipe
lemon dressing 5 sec squirt
meat
fresh tomato segment 4 off (0.5 tomato)
fresh coriander large pinch (4 finger thumb)
base 300 ml
water 75 ml (extra for garlic pwdr)
garlic powder 1 htbsp
have 2 portions of base left. going to add in some green pepper and up the tandoori masala to 1 tsp and try the crushed red chilli (per adil video)
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I also made another Balti last night, traditional style. I used Madhur Jaffrey's kashmiri Lamb recipe as a starting point, but used the Balti spice mix and GM. This wasn't planned I just decided as I had them freshly made I might as well use them.
The curry tasted fine, exactly like you would expect a traditional lamb curry to taste, however there were none of the complex flavours of my first effort. I suspect the cooking time is far too long and destroys these more delicate tastes. I imagine this is why GM is added at the end of cooking in traditional style cooking and but not in BIR style. Even though I added the GM at the end the taste wasn't there. It may be that the lamb is too strong tasting when cooked in this way.
Just some random thoughts.
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Hi Rob
Watching the interesting Adil vid, IMO a straight forward curry, with a good (colour) watery Garabi.
I cannot get away with Tandoor Masala Powder as it won't blend, I can see it adding something extra to Tandoori/Tikka curries like this vid one.
But not a primary ingredient for across the board curries, plus I never see it being used as norm in any Bengali kitchens around here.
I supose this could be one of the Pakistani BIR style things.
Jerry how can you possibly tell what goes into this restaurants Mix Powder/GM with any accuracy
Don't get this at all, especially on quantities of which/each spice.
Anyhoo, Inspired again, I cooked another Balti tonite.
Used fresh chicken Tenders, red pepper and a large tomato.
Good fresh flavours and colour.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/fed6167547a6a4e7564f1a7f33d07b6b.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#fed6167547a6a4e7564f1a7f33d07b6b.jpg)
cheers Chewy and Balti on ;)
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having been thinking more about the things on my mind going to have a go at No 1 ie the balti sauce idea from the 100 Balti. given that i like the IFFU pre cook chicken going to sort of take the best from both info sources and See how it goes - essentially to produce a blended "sauce" as a by product of the pre cook chicken to add in to the plain balti.
i feel with the 100 Balti info the penny might just be starting to drop for me on this "stock" business.
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had run out of balti mix powder and felt i needed to try the 100 Balti mix.
have now realised the 100 Balti mix is very similar to LB which i know (more paprika). on wet finger taste some real clarity of spice which i feel key to balti.
my combined effort (r2) i felt muffled in comparison - much more BIR than balti. in short have made r3 taking out methi, turmeric, garlic pwdr and ginger. most of these being addable if needed at dish frying. was also taken aback by how much flavour had been lost in the few weeks since made.
going to use each mix tonight as side by side. the adil mix powder of course we know nothing about yet will have major impact on the dish taste when you get to the right ballpark which i feel i'm at.
Top original (LB_BBC_Bassar_r2), RHS 100Balti, LHS R3 Combined
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/ebc12b1d65543614cb7c9ca674a8aada.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#ebc12b1d65543614cb7c9ca674a8aada.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/0036af0e8d2dd4d34348eaaa2951eac3.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#0036af0e8d2dd4d34348eaaa2951eac3.JPG)
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Will be watching for the results Jerry :D
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curryhell,
many thanks for encouragement.
et al,
the last 2 balti were disaster and only really confirmed that the previously posted recipes are the best it's gets and this won't change for some time.
in short the pre cook and 100 Balti has opened a can of worms for me - well out of my expertise yet well pleased that i have a new area of curry to explore.
i made a combined pre cook chicken but with hindsight made a few mistakes.
what's important is that there is too much evidence to suggest that the "residue" from cooking meat is thrown away. for me the 100 balti sort of contradicts itself by giving recipe for balti sauce ie base and then the same made from the "residue".
i can only think that the "residue" is in fact balti paste. a bit like bunjarra.
IFFU pre cook chicken "residue" blended plus 100 balti additions
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/7517702376aeaa489ce9ac0a5774beca.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#7517702376aeaa489ce9ac0a5774beca.jpg)
the 100 blati additions being: 4 off pimento, 2 off black pepper corn, 1 tbsp fresh coriander. i also used European bay per Bengali Bob.
i used 1 off heaped eating desert spoon which was far too much in a single curry portion ie 300 ml base. i also left all the whole spice in (not a good idea with hindsight) except the cinnamon for blending.
i also tried the 2 off mix powders side by side but could not decide and need to repeat. they were very different and 1 off curry was far better than the other - i don't which though as they got mixed up on their journey.
in short sticking to previously posted balti recipe and going to work on the balti paste over the coming months.
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i am pretty sure the iffu pre cook chicken disaster above was down to blending the European bay - i should have spice balled it and removed as it's needed for flavour but adds an unwelcome dry taste when blended in.
been working through my 100 balti book and trying a few variants - thing that's jumped out is the need for mix powder - i now feel it can be left out of the adil copy cat recipe above.
the balti gm and tandoori masala are enough and the importance of clarity in the balti taste works better without the mix.
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Well, as the missus is away for the week, I finally got a chance to have a go at this. Undecided, I did one to Jerry/Robs recipe and one to Ade's Adil one, both plain chicken. My current jar of minced garlic is the worst jar I've ever had although I have used the same brand a few times now and its been fine up to this one. As soon it hit the pan it just erupted everywhere and some caught on the sides of the pan and blackened. Jar's now in the bin. >:( Anyway cooked both and myself and my son enjoyed them both. I had to use some red pepper instead of green as the bit I thought I had wasn't there. Not sure how close they came to the Birmingham ones, I'll have to pay a visit down there to try them, but I'm going to have another go tomorrow. I did, of course, commit the cardinal sin of having them with rice and poppadoms ::)
Jerry/Robs on left, Ade's on right
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Regardless Gav, your curries look spot on to me! Well done mate.
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Regardless Gav, your curries look spot on to me! Well done mate.
Cheers Goncalo, I'm off to get more supplies for tonights curries. My son enjoyed the Jerry/Rob one the best but I feel I can get them both better. Two new guinea pigs tonight with my daughter and boyfriend eating here.
On a slightly different subject but still related, the household guinea pig (as in furry animal) goes absolutely mental for coriander stalks. :o
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Nice looking curries there Gav. My mate bought me a chicken balti from his favourite restaurant in the balti triangle last week - the Al Frash. The taste was out of this world!! It was quite a dry curry - not heat whatsoever; just that lovely, subtle well balanced flavour. The sauce had quite an interesting texture. Not sure if it was from the gravy (which I suspect it was) or from a balti paste as Jerry mentions in an earlier post. I do feel that I have come pretty close to it in some of my earlier attempts (see Reply #180) although I now omit the pomegranate seeds
Best Regards
Mick
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Having read the Kushi balti house mentioned at the start of the thread I thought it might be of some interest to post the results of last Sunday's dinner. I was bought the Authentic Balti Curry Book for my birthday the other week and what a corker it is. Despite living not too far from the balti triangle I still haven't actually been for a curry there so I can't say for certain if I have ever had a "proper" balti. That said the ones I have had elsewhere I have really enjoyed and have always had a preference for those over say madras and jalfrezi etc.
I made up the kushi spice, the pre cooked chicken, the gravy and followed the instructions for the most basic curry recipe in the book. Final dish recipes just don't come any simpler. What I achieved was exactly what I have been looking for since I began my takeaway curry quest. The aroma, the colour, the texture of the sauce, the taste, everything was the same as I have had from a TA. Rich, deeply savoury and extremely moreish, I just couldn't believe the results and not a jar of Patak's anywhere to be seen!
I made the base with Dutch onions which I believe give superb results and "singed" the Kushi spice very gently in the oil before adding the tomatoes etc which I have recently discovered makes a big difference in achieving the taste. You know when the spices are done because you can feel your sinuses burning! Contrary to the recipe I added a second ladle of base to the pan. Having had a crafty mid-cook taste I decided the spices were too strong and the sauce too dry for that stage of the cooking. I think that made an infinite improvement on the prescribed recipe. In fact so much so that I thought there must have been a publishing error and someone had left out "Ladle No.2" from the recipe before going to print. Served with H4ppy Chris's superb naans and the fried rice from another present from the inlaws More Takeaway Secrets by Kenny McGovern.
I am aware curry portions look a bit on the measly side but I reduced the sauce down bhuna style. (Plus my daughter was over so had to split three ways.) I really like a dryer curry when eating with naans as I find it is easier to scoop. No forks allowed here! Also please excuse the picture quality. iPads in artificial light take worse pictures than my crapberry! Anyway absolutely beautiful curry and 100% authentic (at least as far as my local TAs go!)
My first pictorial post so go easy on me! ;)
Mike
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Looking good,I've always liked the Kushi book.I know some haven't had much success but I've made some lovely curries from it.Never worked out though what makes it a specific 'balti' recipe book,they just look like standard BIR recipes to me.Nice looking naans as well,I must get round to trying them.
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It all looks really nice Mike
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Some lovely looking baltis being produced by Mike and Gav recently.
I've never made one - waiting on Jerry/Rob reaching the end of the Balti journey. Those are very tempting though :)
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Looking good,I've always liked the Kushi book.I know some haven't had much success but I've made some lovely curries from it.Never worked out though what makes it a specific 'balti' recipe book,they just look like standard BIR recipes to me.Nice looking naans as well,I must get round to trying them.
[/quot?]
People on here have mentioned baltis tasting "floral". Do all standard baltis from the triangle contain kewra water or is that just the speciality dishes?
Ps thanks for all your comments.
Mike
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Gav Iscon,
both curries look good. the adey one looks closer to the actual adil offering in terms of color. is there a link to the recipe.
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Gav Iscon,
both curries look good. the adey one looks closer to the actual adil offering in terms of color. is there a link to the recipe.
Jerry, its the ingredients list that is somewhere in this thread taken from Ade at the Adil. Someone (Dal Puri ???) noted them down with approx measurements so I just hacked out the cooking bit from the Ade around Britain episode, watched it a few times then attempted to copy it using your Balti GM. The list of ingredients is as follows which you already have posted but not the amounts
Ade
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Do indeed look nice. Been promising myself a TA from the Adil for ages; reckon I'll pop over tomorrow. :) Had a look through Adey's balti recipes and they all seem to contain vast quantities of Patak's balti paste. No fancy.
Rob :)
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Do indeed look nice. Been promising myself a TA from the Adil for ages; reckon I'll pop over tomorrow. :) Had a look through Adey's balti recipes and they all seem to contain vast quantities of Patak's balti paste. No fancy.
Rob :)
So there's no confusion, The Ade one I did was from Ade Edmunson's Around Britain thing.
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Loving the look of the naans MushroomMike.
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Cheers Stephen. 8)
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Gav Iscon,
many thanks. i was not sure which adey too. i have the link to that video on my desk top and been trying to capture the adil bit without success. anyhow you've done the hard work on that - many thanks. recipe looks good and will try when i next have base.
the colour of the adil curry is something i'm still wrestling with. it's far redder than i've got. i'd had all fingers crossed that it was not food colour. the larger amount of Tandoori masala powder may just be it.
adding in a few mushrooms to the adey delux version (mine being still at basic stage) would be food heaven for me.
very best wishes,
me too on those naans of mushroom mike's - very jealous
Bengali Bob,
for info been plodding through the 100 balti book and still going at it. will let you know when i've finished and have further thoughts.
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Right that's it I'm going to have to take a trip up to the triangle soon and see what the fuss is about. If the kushi book doesnt produce the genuine artical then true balties are clearly a different animal to what I get from my local Shimla Peppers.. Is Adils the place to go then fellas?
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MushroomMike,
in all honesty i am sure more than the adil and kyber are top notch in the triangle - having said that the adil is well worth a visit. if we can talk bengali bob into arranging another visit then i'd like to compare how far i've got to their offering (now i know more gained from this post).
the balti house product is very different from anything classed as a balti in BIR's. i've sampled the west side of england and not come across anything close. i can only describe the difference as a very clear spiced dish, that has a tad harshness, lots of garlic, tomato, coriander. my previous fav has always been the plain chicken and mushroom. i'm now sold on the meat version.
like all places nothing is perfect - the grill was a tad stingy and the naan not quite as good as best (i've had them slightly more crispy again might not suit everyone) yet the size of it easily made up. it's a "cafe" experience too which does not suit all ie no table cloth
i'm well pleased i went and if a bit closer would be dropping in regularly. it has what i know as curry pedigree.
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Hi Jerry Mmm My favourite is also chicken and mushrooms in a balti (or so called balti which ever way you look at it.) I have for years thought the combo works a treat. Add spinach and for me you have the holy trinity!
It's not exactly right on my doorstep either but close enough to take a trip over there. I'm seriously contemplating going over within the next week or so.
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Had a balti from the AL Frash last week. Best Ive ever had...but small portion
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Didn't make it over to the Adil this weekend as planned, but this place would also be my recommendation for anyone visiting the triangle for the first time. Possibly give Mondays a miss; have a feeling it's head-chef's night off there. The Al-Frash is also top-notch real-deal balti. When I went there the young lad who served me explained that their owner/chef never has a day off, ever. They have trained a second chef but the owner is not happy leaving him by himself. Agree with everything Jerry has said. Stunning Adil balti, skimpy starters. Michael got the smallest tandoori lamb chop I have ever seen. The sheep it came from must have been no more than 6 inches tall! Lamb tikka was also chewy. The bring-your-own-drink option is great though. Have thought that some of these balti houses should also be bring-your-own-naan! Kyber is also amazing. On our balti night we learned from the owner of the Adil that the guy who runs the Kyber is a relative. Explains the dish similarity/quality perhaps.
Rob :)
Another balti night coming soon me thinks. How about towards the end of April/early May?
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Hey Bob!
As the resident balti triangle expert - are there any open during lunch time that you can recommend? The ones mentioned above seem to open at 5pm.
I am in Bham with family at times, but only during the day - wouldnt mind trying a good balti for lunch if you can recommend one. Cheers.
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The Adil is open Sat-Sun lunchtime from 12 noon. Only place I know of so far meggeth. There are several Lahori karahi type outlets open all day in the triangle, but I had to bin the last lot of tandoori lamb chops from one of them, not good, and no baltis either.
Just looking at the Adil menu and they open at 4 pm Mon-Fri apparently. Late lunch :D
Rob :)
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I finally broke my duck Wednesday and took my good lady to Adil's. There was one other couple who were just paying their bill and then it was just the two of us and the guy sat behind the counter eating his supper.
Okay, granted it was midweek but nevertheless thought it being this quiet wasn't really a positive sign. Anyway still full of hope and expectation we proceeded to order. We both had onion bhajis to start. I was very surprised that they were not round balls like most takeaways but actually perfectly circular flat patties. I really enjoyed those. They were perfectly spiced and I couldn't decide whether it was gram flour or potato in them or indeed a mixture of the two but again, very agreeable they were.
For main I had the chicken and mushroom balti, the missus had the chicken and prawn balti, pilau rice and a medium garlic naan to share.
I was looking forward to this bit as I had never had a 'proper' balti so was very excited when they came out. First impression was the colour. A lot deeper red than a 'TA' balti as if to suggest tomato puree. Secondly the strangely uniform 'strands' of dark meat rather than chunks of breast which I then recalled reading about earlier on in the thread. Never had this before at a restaurant but I enjoyed it all the same. Then for the first taste. I tore a piece of naan which by the way I thought was like biting into a crispy cloud it was so light. (Yes I am aware I'm beginning to sound like a dodgey Guardian food critic but it was superb and by far the best I'd ever had!) Then for the curry itself. A tad on the salty side and yes 'different' to anything else I'd been sold as a balti. It had a flavour in the background that I knew but couldn't put my finger on. Maybe ajwain, maybe not. Apart from that I didn't really analyze it too much. All I can honestly say was that it was a nice curry but not the best I'd ever had. I am probably a curry philistine to say this but I thought my local TA's offering was more to my taste with richer, more complex flavours going on which is made even worse by the fact they could well be using Patak's! My other half kept telling me that my curry made from the Kushi book was a lot tastier and I had to agree.
Anyway, I payed the bill and the guy brought us a questionaire which we filled in. He said his gaffer had given him a target of getting 30 filled in but he still had a lot left which went to show how quiet they had been. Anyway, we had a nose up the Ladypool Road for a bit then headed home.
It was a shame the experience wasn't amazing but being the optimist that I am I'll just try somewhere else in the triangle next time. I think next stop Al Frash and then maybe Kushi but I am put off going there after Goncarlo's write up. Might try the Khyber though at some point.
Mike
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MushroomMike,
loved the report and well pleased you made the effort.
i can understand you comment on your local's offering - some BIR have made real inroads and really produce un beatable dishes.
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Gav Iscon's pic (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,12276.msg104455.html#msg104455 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,12276.msg104455.html#msg104455)) inspired me to get back onto this balti. also having the adey video to hand gave that little extra bit of help.
LHS Adey adil RHS jerrym basic adil
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/ed647e8fec3679f850c5d91508e66ca9.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#ed647e8fec3679f850c5d91508e66ca9.jpg)
its was a real eye opener. the adey recipe calling for ginger, lots of tandoori masala and methi normally set big alarm bells off for me.
i felt the adey recipe to be closer to the pukka adil than my own. i did add into the adey recipe lemon dressing, garlic powder and f.coriander from my own recipe.
the adey recipe is not balanced though and needs some fine tuning - those spoon amounts in the video suggest to me that perhaps 2 portions were being cooked at once. the crushed red chilli is not a crucial ingredient just ups the heat.
the adey recipe is well crafted though - the ginger sat well and could not be detected. i don't know which ingredient it is but one or more must balance out the methi so it too does not overpower the dish.
the key point is that i'm now sold on NOT adding tom puree. i was using it to get the red colour but if i can get the tandoori masala balance this will be enough.
i cooked on my domestic hob and found it really hard going - the home bargains garlic and ginger pastes spit all over the place in the hot oil on the 1st dish. i then adopted my norm of adding as the oil heats up and was sorted.
i also tried out a balti dish for doing a tarka like in the Dalpuri nottingham video. i like the extra taste the garlic gave but did not get that hint of smokey that i was after. going to up the oil from 1 tbsp.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/3bf3b34f57bfd14a2f674479115ce6f9.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#3bf3b34f57bfd14a2f674479115ce6f9.jpg)
having real good fun though. i feel i'm a real novice on this balti stuff and really hard to keep what i know on BIR out of use.
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the penny has now dropped on the Adey video - the spoons change during the video. for me it looks like an eating teaspoon is used to measure out the spice.
if it is an eating teaspoon then the amounts used per portion are:
1) tandoori masala 12.5 ml
2) gm 2.5 ml
3) methi 10 ml
going to give these a go on my next try (last time used, 15ml, 5ml, 5 ml). it may seem very small changes but fine tuning can make huge differences.
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Hi Jerry, just had another watch of the Ade video and noticed another ommission that nobody has picked up on yet...Mustard oil. :)
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The second measuring spoonful just looks like an ordinary dessert spoon to me and the g/g looks a lot sloppier than mine.
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Dalpuri, Gav Iscon,
not noticed the mustard oil either. easy to try it out on my next go.
i'm pretty happy with the amounts. i cooked 3 more with slight variation and settling on: 2 tsp tandoori, 1 tsp gm, 2 tsp methi. i can't decide if the methi is better going in at the start or with the spice as per video.
on next go need to try the balti dish without the garlic ie just a plain oil tarka. i liked the garlic result (just like Az method produces) but it's not used by the adil for sure.
had 1 off top notch result on the balti dish tarka - almost comparable to my burner output. i don't feel the adil pukka dish is cooked at high heat though. i used my 1 kw domestic hob to cook the curry and my 3 kw hob to heat the balti dish. i got easily to 220C and 250 quite often and 1 off to 300C. i actually got flame at the 300C go (wife not impressed).
i left out the crushed chilli but liked the green pepper and ginger addition - adopted. i still find the adil method quite a hard method to follow as you're frying no substance early on and very little heat is needed whereas the video show lots. if i used same it would kill the dish. i can only put it down to the speed the chef goes at which is much quicker than myself.
Adil_adey pukka Bottom left, best dish top, bottom right got re fried down to poor cooking on 1st go (quite amazing but top and right dish have same ingredients)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/d594a80faa39e0d248b24fa696856b53.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#d594a80faa39e0d248b24fa696856b53.jpg)
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Hi JM
Well done, your bottom left attempt looks the closest in colour and texture, to what their eating in the video.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/edf1dc6a6bec979a47b8cad44b3c0da5.png) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#edf1dc6a6bec979a47b8cad44b3c0da5.png)
I watched the video a couple of times, and wrote a guide for myself.
There
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chewytikka,
spot on report - captures it all perfectly. it's that trio of gm, methi and tandoori that makes the dish - i felt they seemed to sort of balance each other and the trick was to stop the tandoori overpowering.
the LH dish as you say is very close to Adil and same for your's.
the top dish had that BIR - i suppose Indian influence in the taste - i call hot fried (not balti).
i'm using the 100 Balti Rolls Royce base which seems pretty good. i'm now working on combining it with the Lynette Baxter and Birmingham Balti books to try and take the best bits from all 3 books. then i feel ready to start moving onto a few more dishes.
as MushroomMike captured from his visit - BIR can be better but for a decent quick no fuss supper with a really big naan makes for a real treat - our naan on the visit was called table naan and was exactly that in that it covered the table.
ps 1 further thought - having got to know the dish much better the ajwain did not come through in the gm enough and need to up the amount.
best wishes,
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Was it a Balti or a Karahi?, who knows the answer. ;D ;D
The impression I got when I went to Adil's was that a karahi is a slow-cooked, on-the-bone curry whereas a balti is your standard quick curry with pre-cooked meat. Have I got that right or am I wrong?? :-\
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The impression I got when I went to Adil's was that a karahi is a slow-cooked, on-the-bone curry whereas a balti is your standard quick curry with pre-cooked meat. Have I got that right or am I wrong?? :-\
I have never eaten an authentic Balti dish, so cannot comment, but certainly in my experience a Karahi dish is slow-cooked, though I don't think it is /essential/ that it is also on the bone.
** Phil.
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As of today, back on the balti trail.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/8700a4c929fe81a27439237f23375aaf.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/318627423671ee39429d29b55aa82109.jpg)
Adil balti chicken and pilau rice
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/828c7b18166d6bcecfabea2b9656229c.jpg)
Ordered mild (no chilli powder, etc.). This dish is crammed with chicken stock. No doubt about it. Jerry's recipe is very close, imo. But the base needs nailing. Going to visit once a week; at some point I'll be looking for a nosey in the kitchen, and a sample of the base. Fingers crossed. All good fun.
Rob :)
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About time, can't wait Rob. I still live with the memory of going to Mr Dave's balti house in Worcester just after it opened and we all thought it was great, one of my memorable curries in fact. Went back a year later and what a major disappointment. :-\
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BB, see they use plastic containers for the food and metal for the rice- is that new? Think you said (at the beginning of the thread, apologies if it wasn't you!) you preferred metal, wasn't it?*
*On edit: Yes, it was Sept last year lol http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?action=post;quote=99180;topic=12276.10;last_msg=107346 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?action=post;quote=99180;topic=12276.10;last_msg=107346)
Still of the same mind? It's an interesting theory about the conatiner affecting the taste.
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Bengali Bob,
Would be really interesting for you to get a taste of the base. Just getting the ballpark feel is crucial to moving forward.
Recently got taste of base at my local restaurant and the type of base took me really by surprise. Hence fingers crossed for u.
Ps did start working on a base but it's hopeless. The only thing I felt was that black cardamom is needed.
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Ps did start working on a base but it's hopeless. The only thing I felt was that black cardamom is needed.
Wot mean you, Jerry?
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Double onionist
Year has ended up scattergun.
I intended to work only on balti. Bengali bob sold me on getting the 100 balti book. This has a standard base and a rolls royce base. I've made both. I think by combining best from each I could get a base more like what I think the adil must be.
It's pure guess work as I only know what the final adil dish tastes like. We now have a very decent copy of the plain balti dish recipe (posted earlier and well reported by chewytikka).
To get further improvement I think we need to get a proper balti base.
The black cardamom thought came from trying out bases and trying to combine. I have used for a while in chef garam for BIR. For balti I think it's a key ingredient like Cinnamom and Asian bay for BIR.
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Right Jerry, seen. It's a interesting point that about the detai of the base. Do we have anybody (lol sound a little bit MI5 here!!!) on the 'inside' of a Balti House, in the same way as people have got 'in to' BIRs? Know wot i mean?
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Weekend again and will be balti bound again. Something wasn't quite right with the last balti chicken; somehow the flavours were not balanced correctly; too much meat stock. The texture of the sauce was also a bit odd. Almost as if it had been thickened with flour, although I can't see that happening. I've concluded that the dish just wasn't cooked properly.
Interestingly, on this visit there was a sign in the door stating that the Adil is now closed on Mondays. Saturday/Sunday remain open from 12.00, as usual. I wonder if this has led to chef shift changes. Here's a pic of the takeaway container after most of the balti had been tipped out of it. Again, something is not quite right, me thinks.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/f8d6640b0e180909d211192919b9c3b6.jpg)
Rob :)
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Yeah glutinous? Can see why flour sprung to mind though.
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Interesting pic
Difficult to judge from photo but for me as Bob suggests not cooked well.
Looks like dark and light areas with small pools of oil and possibly water separation.
Ps Bob, I now have the lamb stock per your recommendation. Ironic but using it a lot in none curry. Loving it although it's well salty.
Getting the proportion wrong in curry would be disaster.
Much appreciating your efforts and hope for repeat visit at some point
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Ps Bob, I now have the lamb stock per your recommendation.
Is this a commercial stock? Been trying to source a good depth of flavour lamb stock without much luck.
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Secret Santa,
Yes commercial stock.
Bengali bob posted pic earlier on this post after the christmas trip.
It's a yellow packet with a rams head on the front. They come in pack of 32 for ~?2. not easy to track down found in rusholme.
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Thanks Jerry, managed to track down the picture of it on page 27!
Yes even Google fails to track down an online source for them!
So what's your and Rob's verdict on their flavour...are they really lamby?
I don't believe most of the BIRs are making fresh stock so there must be a cube or powder out there that gives that deep lamb flavour some of them achieve in their curries.
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Possibly not one of my best ideas. ;D. They are tasty but as Jerry has said they are also really salty. Trying to remember back. Not sure if there is actually any "mutton" as such in them. Msg rings a bell. Are very popular hereabouts though, the supermarkets sell loads. They also do a crayfish flavour one. Not tried it; probably give it a miss.
Rob :)
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I don't believe most of the BIRs are making fresh stock so there must be a cube or powder out there that gives that deep lamb flavour some of them achieve in their curries.
I don't see why not, any bone-on-lamb would make a stock as soon as it was cooked in a liquid. I can't see what adding a powder is going to add, would add to costs too. Is lamby really a word? ;)
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I don't believe most of the BIRs are making fresh stock so there must be a cube or powder out there that gives that deep lamb flavour some of them achieve in their curries.
I don't see why not, any bone-on-lamb would make a stock as soon as it was cooked in a liquid.
So where are the reports of vast stock pots full of mutton and lamb bones simmering gently on the BIR range? I've never heard anyone who's been to a BIR kitchen mention this and it's the sort of thing that would get mentioned if seen.
That's not to say some don't, I just think it will be a very small minority.
Is lamby really a word? ;)
'tis now! ;D
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Possibly not one of my best ideas. ;D. They are tasty but as Jerry has said they are also really salty. Trying to remember back. Not sure if there is actually any "mutton" as such in them. Msg rings a bell. Are very popular hereabouts though, the supermarkets sell loads. They also do a crayfish flavour one. Not tried it; probably give it a miss.
Rob :)
After that ringing endorsement I'll probably give 'em a miss too then ! ;D
There must be a catering stock powder out there that gives a good lamb flavour.
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I don't believe most of the BIRs are making fresh stock so there must be a cube or powder out there that gives that deep lamb flavour some of them achieve in their curries.
I don't see why not, any bone-on-lamb would make a stock as soon as it was cooked in a liquid.
So where are the reports of vast stock pots full of mutton and lamb bones simmering gently on the BIR range? I've never heard anyone who's been to a BIR kitchen mention this and it's the sort of thing that would get mentioned if seen.
That's not to say some don't, I just think it will be a very small minority.
Is lamby really a word? ;)
'tis now! ;D
I was thinking more of the leftover oil/ stock from precooking than big pots of stock.
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I was thinking more of the leftover oil/ stock from precooking than big pots of stock.
Fair enough but that's not stock is it. The really deep lamb flavour that I get with some lamb curries could only come from a proper stock and I'm betting that somewhere in the trade there are commercial stock granules that do the job.
Precooking just doesn't have the same effect.
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Secret Santa
I would give the cube a try. It's the best lamb stock I've come across. Yes making from scratch would produce significantly better. Only top chefs do this.
I've not made lamb for curry so can't comment on the residue being what's used. I'm sure it is. From making IFFU chicken I don't feel the residue makes a step change in the curry. In fact I've gone full circle from chucking adding it (albeit 1 Htbsp) to now chucking it. Personal taste I guess what you're used to.
The taste in the adil meat balti was very different - I too would say lamby.
Ive not tried the cube in curry yet.
I have used it to sort a long time dilemma on mousaka. Always wrestled with lamb or beef and tried both but mainly used beef. In short now using beef plus lamb cube.
The cube has I guess a sharp manufactured flavour which seems to fit some uses.
Going forward I will need to reduce salt in balti base to allow for cube salt.
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If anyone has trouble finding the cubes drop me a pm and I can post a few out. Have the option to buy them individual here for pennies. Interesting comments. I always cook lamb (mutton) on-the-bone for curries these days and it's pretty heady stuff already, but I've been carried away with green cardo/mace lately (wonderful combo for meat). I think I'll pop a cube in again next time. My home balti lamb efforts so far are still falling short of the genuine article, particularly in terms of depth of flavour.
Re the Adil certain the balti chicken also contains a "stock" of some sort. Not generally as apparent as with the balti lamb, but my last TA from there was clearly loaded with it. Overly so. Plus, from what I've had from there previously the balti chicken often includes visible dark chicken meat. Interestedly not always. Thinking the stock(s) could be introduced via the pre-cook or/and the base gravy. Not sure if I've mentioned this before but the Adil do not use raw chicken when making balti chicken. One of the guys there told me that it is pre-cooked. Everything is pre-cooked.
Rob :)
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After much anticipation (and some drastic parking), me and my mate finally got to the Adil last Friday night on our way home from the boat show in Southampton. Didn't bother with starters apart from some poppadoms which came with chilli sauce and a disappointing yoghurt sauce. I ordered the Balti Chicken Tikka Chilli Masala (the Ade Edmunson one) and my mate ordered the Balti Lamb Tikka Masala with a medium naan to share and a jug of mango lassi. Not many people in and service was a bit slow. I have to say that I was disappointed in the meals. I was expecting a curry nirvana moment which never came. There seemed to be something missing from the balti. a bit salty, a taste of stock and not a lot of it. Also I thought
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Gav Iscon,
Real dissapointed for you and quite a shock.
Interesting on the stock. I only picked the taste up in the lamb dish ie not in the chicken.
The gelatine is big no no for me too. Will be sticking to stock cubes.
Given you say they are in different premises that may be cause - grasping at straws though. As you say our recipe produces very good result and very close to what I experienced.
The midlands has always had a real drawback on consistency - I believe down to chefs moving around.
Me still looking forward to further trip Xmas if it comes off. I'd still love to taste a base.
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Does seem that the Adil has taken a down-turn recently in line with the last offering I had from there. I reckon a chef (or two) may be missing. Sorry it wasn't up to scratch Gav. :(
Rob :)
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Definitely no need to apologise Rob, I'm still glad I went, its ticked of the curry list. I'll await your update if you go to the Adil when they move back to Stoney Lane. Driving past the Al Frash on leaving, it looked a lot busier so I'll be going there next year if not sooner. Looking at the Adil menu I brought home, they didn't knock of the 10% for takeaway either. >:(
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Dissapointed, I'll Say :o
The Balti Chicken Spinach, Gav kindly brought all the way from Brum, was less than good.
It was a swift visit, but I had a taste of all three curries, the other two tasted as you would expect
if you
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It's always a kiss of death when I recommend a restaurant to anybody. I do however know a few people who frequent the Al Frash, and I have only heard (and sampled) good things. My mate always gets me a chicken Balti when he goes and to date they have always been spot on. Oh well, guess that's the Al Frash knackered then as well lol
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Mick strikes again.....
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It's always a kiss of death when I recommend a restaurant to anybody.
I work around the UK late October for about a month and over the years we've been to some lovely eateries and can't wait to go back the following year. I've been disappointed on numerous occasions on the return (and even a bit sheepish sometimes for recommending it from the previous year). I think I may be a prophet of restaurant doom as well Mick. The famous Kashmir in Bradford being an example. First time fantastic, second time poor and I even bought the missus back some TA's and got it in the neck. I'm yet to have a memorable curry up in Scotland and I've been to quite a few. Members on here may be right in saying that the general standard of BIR overall is dropping and we all, generally are always trying to improve our own standards.
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A year ago I bought some tickets to see Joan Rivers. Nuff said
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BIR in the uk are for sure going through hard times.
Quality is defo suffering.
The 30 years hey day may hold true.
I'd still sign up for an Xmas do and well pleased (sorry) that I know what the adil can taste like - there might be equals but very few better.
Off for some tickets and to check the stars.
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I'll give the Adil another go in a couple of weeks when they've moved back to Stoney Lane. I'm also up for another visit around Christmas Jerry. Adil, Kyber, or Al Frash perhaps.
Rob :)
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hey didn't knock of the 10% for takeaway either. >:(
Bet they did when it came to cashing up though! ;)
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Been reading up on Pakistani stocks (Yakhni). Reckon this might be made separately and then added to the balti base gravy. As opposed to bunging a chicken carcass in the gravy from the start, which according to a couple of chefs I know is actually a Bangladeshi style gravy. Seems to be lots of Yakhni recipes. Many seem to involve black pepper, and bay leaf. Apparently if you use stuff like chicken wings and feet there is plenty of collagen and this forms a jelly. Found one recipe where it takes six hours of boiling and cooling overnight to make the stock. Sounds like a plan.
Rob :)
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Been reading up on Pakistani stocks (Yakhni).
This one (http://www.nigella.com/recipes/view/yakhni-mutton-pulao-4794#recipeIcons) certainly seems worth a try -- uses a potli ka masala, although it doesn't call it that.
** Phil.
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Liking the idea. It fits; adaptation of home food. Know a butcher that does chicken feet. I'll start with these and a chicken carcass. Think I'll lob in an onion and some peppercorns, and some Euro bay. Salt too. A pinch of Jerry's GM. It's about time my pressure cooker earned its keep.
Rob :)
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What a stroke of luck! Dan has posted a balti recipe today involving a special balti chicken stock. Ooh. Hang on a minute. Looks like may have to wait for another e-book. Great idea though; chicken stock.
http://www.greatcurryrecipes.net/ (http://www.greatcurryrecipes.net/)
Rob :)
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Not just any chicken stock Bob- special balti chicken stock ;)
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Can't be bothered waiting for the ebook. I'm going with the recipe in this video. The ingredients for the yakhni are shown at about 03:15, after the chef has finished making a bit of an ass of himself. :). The recipe is shown again together with some method at 58:40.
http://www.khanapakana.com/cooking-video/4904f623-b3f0-4b5a-988d-1616b3c23bf1/cabbage-roll-gravy-and-murgh-yakhni-soup-chicken-stock-soup- (http://www.khanapakana.com/cooking-video/4904f623-b3f0-4b5a-988d-1616b3c23bf1/cabbage-roll-gravy-and-murgh-yakhni-soup-chicken-stock-soup-)
Rob :)
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Thanks for the link, good substitution. If you gonna make it, maybe put up a photo? I would but it's a fried lice night tonight ;)
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Just going out now to get the chicken feet and wings. It's my day off so should get it started later today. As it's a 5 hour boil reckon I'll have to get a TA in for this evening. Pics of the stock to follow. Only think that concerns me is how a vegetarian balti is made. Can't say I've ever had one. Did have a veg side dish once though. Can't remember what it was. Spiced similarly to everything else on the menu, but it was missing something; possibly the chicken stock.
Rob :)
Edit: Scuppered. Butcher had sold-out of feet. I've asked him to set me a kg aside next time.
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Hi all, sorry to jump in to this thread uninvited ;) have had a good read here and also agree a stock would lift a dish to a different level, but believe it would be to costly for a BIR to to produce a separate stock for Balti dishes.
This leaves me with the understanding that a Yakhini stock or Pakistani chicken stock must be made using chicken wings.
Then removing the chicken and discarding the bones leaving the stock to be drained for adding to base, a Pakistani veggie stock can be added to base for a veg gravy.
I can confirm the butchers next to my indian TA sell all there chicken wings to them, but they are not on the menu!! So i would assume it's got to be a form of chicken stock they are producing here using wings.
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Edit: Scuppered. Butcher had sold-out of feet. I've asked him to set me a kg aside next time.
The chinese suppliers might have them. They sell them at the one I go to.
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Lc
I can confirm the butchers next to my indian TA sell all there chicken wings to them, but they are not on the menu!! So it's got to be a form of chicken stock they are producing here using wings.
Could it be that a member of the staff takes them home as a free meal but payed for by the take away and not used
My butcher supplies fillet steak to a Bir he gets free currys the steak is not on any menus
Just a thought ;D
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I could see this working. I'm not sure if there are any bases posted using stock, but I might give it a go. It could lift the base, and therefore the final dish.
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I love chicken wings, I quite often chuck a kilo in my base sauce while it's cooking, produces a tasty curry.
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Been there, done that. I've tried real stock, stock cubes and just throwing a few legs and wings in and none of them had me wanting to do it again...or made the curry any nearer to BIR (as I know it). I genuinely expected it to be one of the 'secrets' but it doesn't appear to be...for me anyway.
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...nor me either
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Been there, done that. I've tried real stock, stock cubes and just throwing a few legs and wings in and none of them had me wanting to do it again...or made the curry any nearer to BIR (as I know it). I genuinely expected it to be one of the 'secrets' but it doesn't appear to be...for me anyway.
I agree, and would go even further by suggesting it's a bad move. I love the use of stocks in western cooking but for BIR style food it's the biggest flavour killer, in my experience.
Incidentally, the Balti craze may be over and restaurant curries from yesteryear tasted like mud, according to Madhur Jaffrey and my favourite newspaper:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2787198/Balti-craze-claims-curry-queen-Madhur-Jaffrey.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2787198/Balti-craze-claims-curry-queen-Madhur-Jaffrey.html)
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So that's what is missing for those searching for the taste from yesteryear...... mud.
As for the stock, the curries I had from the Adil the other week definitely had stock in the base and as for a bad move, I have to disagree as thats what the balti flavour is. I wouldn't put stock in my normal base although I usually do my pre-cooked my portion of chicken in the base I'm going to use. The other week I defrosted to much boned and skinned leg and thought stuff it I'll just put the lot in which resulted in a spoilt curry for me being over powered with chicken taste in the sauce.
And, well I'll be dammed, what a good really good read the Daily Mail is
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And, well I'll be dammed, what a good really good read the Daily Mail is
Yes, their subs are really on the ball, aren't they :
That became known as Balti cooking. 'I don't think it has origins in any place we would want to visit.' ... She added of the Balti: 'I don't think it has origins in any place we would want to visit.
** Phil.
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...restaurant curries from yesteryear tasted like mud, according to Madhur Jaffrey and my favourite newspaper:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2787198/Balti-craze-claims-curry-queen-Madhur-Jaffrey.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2787198/Balti-craze-claims-curry-queen-Madhur-Jaffrey.html)
Daft old bat! [Not sure if I mean Jaffrey or George though] ;) ;D
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Also thinking about a nice stock made with mutton trotters.
Rob :)
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Also thinking about a nice stock made with mutton trotters.
Rob :)
Or a few little pieces of oxtail (Quid's worth) adds a great flavour and richness. :)
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Don't add too much flavour or your curries are going to end up tasteless. ;)
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Oh well. I guess that's it then. Been fun while it lasted and I was just about to start looking at Balti but it appears there is no point after reading that link. You had all better burn your ebooks now, eh. The pear has spoken. It's amazing that they have 1000 year old women in India still working in kitchens.
So, what do you think about KFC extra crispy? Is their new gravy any good? Do you think the mashed potato is made on site? I preferred it when a bucket came in a bucket. Hang on. Isn't a bucket also known as a balti?
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Saleem's. Ladypool Road, Birmingham.
Balti meat (hot)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/6bd27d6ebb7b24261f34ac01169bf8e0.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/9fd86ac4f9ff4f8a9c7a1440a6bf0214.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/8978b490e816ea2f2bc77a0eedce6010.jpg)
Verdict/blurb later.
Rob :)
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Very nice (legit) balti from Saleem's. Not up to the Adil/Kyber benchmark on-form quality on this occasion though. Got there about 5.30 pm Just two diners in and they were finishing up.
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Went to Saleems tonight after finding out they were closing up. It's tomorrow they are shutting the doors for good btw. I spoke to Saleem's older brother and he says he may open up another restaurant somewhere else eventually. Anyway.. I did a bit of digging and he said their balti is very simple to make (well he would wouldn't he!) From what I gather you make the stock by cooking meat (esp chickens) with onions. In the finished dish he said all you do is add turmeric, chilli and methi. All very simple he said and no tomatoes like the curry houses do it. There is definitely a very strong taste of rich, fresh chicken stock in their dishes. The sort that comes only from boiling up whole carcasses. I'm already making a rough draft of a Saleems replica. If it turns out alright I'll post up my recipe in due course.
All the best.
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Finally got some chicken feet. 67 p per kilo. I'll get the stock done. Also re-thinking the balti cooking technique in line with something Jerry mentioned recently.
Rob :)
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Quick update. Almost 2.5 hrs in and looking mighty fine. 500 g feet/250 g wing. 1 black cardo, 5 black peppercorns, 2 clove, 2 tsp turmeric, 1 tbsp veg oil/butter ghee, 1 tbsp salt. Getting quite excited.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/d65031d7ccd0d8199b2a0f88b75fff92.jpg)
Rob :)
Edit: Plus 3 cloves of fresh garlic.
Edit: And a small onion.
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I thought this forum had reached a peak of bizzare just recently.
Clearly I was mistaken. ???
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I really don't want to put my foot in it Rob, but not even your camera skills can make what's in that pot look appetising. Love to stay a bit longer but it's Friday and time to hot foot it down the pub.
Let us know how it turns out mate.
Curry on, but just for tonight, i'll say put your best foot forward. You can take your pick as to which one ;D
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Bengalibob,
You have to take risks. We just don't know enough to put a scientific view on balti.
Just be careful on the QTY of the carcass stock. I followed currytesters base once and I feel with hindsight got carried away and failed to stay objective. In short I used too much and it put me off well and truly.
As we know from BIR balance is key.
Fingers crossed or should that be toes.
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MushroomMike,
Dropped lucky for sure. Real dedication too.
A lot rings true of what you say. I find the turmeric difficult as I know it works best adding to base (and adding more than gut feeling - would need to check but I think I use 30 ml per 800g onion or 8 portions).
Looking forward to how you get on.
We need to get a tasting of the base. Hint for Xmas trip.
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The yakhni is done. A good 6 hr boil concentrated it down. Strained and cooled it. Gelatinous. Lip-smacking almost MSG-like. Next, how do I get it into a balti? Don't want to over-do it. Game on.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,12276.320.html (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,12276.320.html)
Rob :)
Any thoughts on the appearance/finish in the Saleem's balti pic Jerry? I was thinking milk, an addition to balti base that Unclefrank mentioned to me some time ago.
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Bob,
I take the pic on pg 36.
It don't look brill to me. It looks split and too much oil. I myself just on the pic would not go back.
Trouble is I know the sauce below could taste brill. I also know you can ask for variants and get a dish more to your own like without loosing out on taste.
For me I guess I'm also stuck in adil mode. Hit the spot and the home version needs no improvement.
I still feel we need to taste a base ie is the "stock" in or added at dish fry or as chewy says for BIR added via liquid with the meat. This would sit well with veg menu. Also perhaps better control on using such a strong ingredient and not wanting to overpower.
On milk I've no experience. Gut feeling no as balti has a rawness that I feel is key. I use carnation at dish fry all the time and it produces a very different result. I'm just guessing.
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Ah, a yakhni chicken stock, thats that cleared up, should of realised, needed
to read back on the thread, at first I was thinking chicken feet, where were the chicken lips.
I would have auto added Cassia and Tej Patta, but thats my Sylheti training. ;D
One thought, purely guesswork, they probably miss this step, but do exactly the
same with a few full chickens. Reason is it would save a job and give them the
boiled chicken to be Pulled/Shredded, like I was served in the chicken spinach Balti from Adil. plus a good stock.
Kill two birds with one stone (see what I did there) ;D
Anyhoo adding a bit of your stock, should be a bonus to any Balti.
Balti On Rob ;)
cheers Chewy
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Bob/Jerry
Ive tried UFs/RCR Balti gravy several times in the last couple of months, but have binned the last 3 batches that I have made, and to be honest I have now given up the balti quest.
In fact my curry making of late in general has gone from bad to worse and I have decided to have a break from currys altogether :'(
One point I will make is that I have been eating a few takeaways from Al Frash recently. I am shocked by the lack of consistency. The last one I had from there, I reckon they had forgotten to add any spice mix at all to it. The resultant balti was completely tasteless except for one thing........Chicken Stock!
Regards
Mick :'( :'(
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do you think they produce a lamb stock for meat baltis etc??
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One point I will make is that I have been eating a few takeaways from Al Frash recently. I am shocked by the lack of consistency. The last one I had from there, I reckon they had forgotten to add any spice mix at all to it. The resultant balti was completely tasteless except for one thing........Chicken Stock!
I had this happen at Mint in Yardley, they sent me two bowls of chicken soup.
It was supposed to be a special meal for my Wife and I on our wedding anniversary, talk about bad timing for them to drop the ball.
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Mickdabass,
I get to the same point of desperation myself now and then. I don't see it being avoided if you push what you do to improve.
The only thing is to go back to what worked and start again.
The big consolation is our food is really top notch and can only get better given the vast amount of collective helping each other help.
Ps chewytikka comment on the carcass has hit me on the nose. My wife cooks whats called roast chicken in a pot of water. She does not need a timer and it's always falling off the bone. Exactly a CT says a free stock too. Will aim to divert a little of the stock. Might be difficult to add in the cassia. The bay I stand a chance.
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Development. Dropped lucky earlier this evening. Got to see my balti made. Not from the triangle, but it's real deal, or near enough imo. Pakistani kitchen. Just getting my head around things; total simplicity. The chef also gave me a portion of the base, stone cold, nothing added. Pics and blurb to follow. We're getting there.
Rob :)
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Sounds good Bob, look forward to it :D
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Sounds good Bob, look forward to it :D
Pretty made up with this LouP. No recipes, anecdotal so far, but the visit goes a long way in my mind to answering some fundamental questions; base, stock whereabouts, garam, tech, and how things differs to typical contemporary, e.g Bangladeshi BIR. Could be a game changer, but I'll need Jerry's take on it.
Rob :)
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Nice one Rob :)
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Bob,
Incredible news. Well pleased for you - the effort you've put in.
You must have pulled some incredible favours or used that brummie savvy some
Ps you're more than capable. I'm happy to help and enjoy any trip south.
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Great stuff! Be interesting to see the hue of the bass.
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Bob. Do you get a slight hint of cinnamon when you have a triangle balti? Had the same thing at both Adils and Saleem's.
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Bob. Do you get a slight hint of cinnamon when you have a triangle balti ?
No experience of "triangle baltis" (the "triangle" didn't exist when I was a regular visitor to that area) but there was a definite tang of cinnamon in the mutton masala I had in Abu Dhabi last week; also ginger, garlic, onion, chilli, indian bay and other unidentified spices.
** Phil.
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I still suspect there is a fundamental difference in the base.
Whole spice in some way would fit with this.
I hope for a trip with the dream of tasting pukka base.
Just the chef masala from the adil was a real eye opener though and bob our only hope of getting a few extra pointers though.
Having said that our recipe that I make of the adil chicken balti takes some beating.
The only real thing left to crack for me is the stock for the meat balti. I have those rams head stock cubes that I use all the time in none curry ( the 32 off in a packet reducing fast) yet still don't have the confidence to try in curry.
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Have you cracked the adils replica then Jerry?
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Yes. Several members all contributed to it earlier in this post. There is an "adey" video in the post which is the starting point
The crux outstanding being stock which is used in meat balti and the base which we don't know anything about. Using a BIR base is pretty good but still short.
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I tried the Adey version but was nothing like what I had at Adils although I can't remember what base I used which was most likely the key to its success.
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After last years disappointment of the Adil, http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,12276.msg110827.html#msg110827, (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,12276.msg110827.html#msg110827) I still held out hope for the Balti with a memorable one I had back in the mid 90's at Worcester (disappointing a year later though). So when an opportunity arose this week with some work in Birmingham, I planned a revisit. This time I tried the Al Frash and just to throw another one in to the mix in keeping with the threads title, I also got one from the well rated Shabab across the road. Chicken Balti (madras hot) and Chicken Bhoona Balti (madras hot) from the Al Frash and a Chicken Spinach Aloo (madras hot) from the Shabab. These were all takeaway and after a quick phone call to Chewy telling him to get some plates out, I set of on the 4 hour journey with the most delightful smells invading my nostrils and as I hadn't ate since the morning, I also had to resist the temptation to pull over and start although the 2 poppadoms that the Al Frash included got scoffed. Anyway 4 hours later I arrived at the Chewy's place to find some plain rice, crinkle cut chips and a home made Balti for comparison. :)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/bd91ee8649ace8bb364e6d12a5cd04e3.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#bd91ee8649ace8bb364e6d12a5cd04e3.jpg)
Chicken Spinach Aloo Balti from the Shabab (madras hot)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/7d310a89d4ec5d64be4bbd17d55eecbc.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#7d310a89d4ec5d64be4bbd17d55eecbc.jpg)
Chicken Balti and Chicken Bhuna Balti (both madras hot) from Al Frash
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/134d78e64057f3af6dc290525f555945.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#134d78e64057f3af6dc290525f555945.jpg)
Chewy's Chicken Balti
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/c130959cad0eab5065be9de7ad64e05d.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#c130959cad0eab5065be9de7ad64e05d.jpg)
Three Baltis plated with samosas from Shamilee's (http://sharmilee.co.uk/Default.aspx) in Leicester
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/7fc96b010553097527b8c918d964e221.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#7fc96b010553097527b8c918d964e221.jpg)
Managed to squeeze in a bit of Chewy's Balti with the few remaining chips.
After not rating the Adil balti's, I have to say that I really enjoyed all of the Baltis from Birmingham and all were a hundred times better that the few I tried from the Adil. I couldn't notice any stock in these and looking at the left overs this afternoon after them being well chilled overnight, there was none of that jelly like consistancy that the one from the Adil had. The Chicken Spinach Aloo balti from Shabab's had very little base added to it and was more like a sag aloo with chicken added to it but very tasty all the same. Next came Chewy's which I thought was very good. Similar in taste but a lot stronger in flavour. Overall I would be happy to eat any off them again. The samosa was one from the selection of lovely vegetarian snacks that Chewy's friend brings back for him when he visits Leicester. I've tried them before when he last had them and they come with some tasty dipping sauces (the polystyrene tubs in the plated picture are the mediocre ones from Al Frash).
The lad that served me in Al Frash recommended Imrans which was were he ate so it on the list for next time I'm down there.
One thing that annoys me about the baltis is the portion size. The big cartons are only half full and every balti I brought back was over
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Great report, Gav! I almost feel as if I was there - and the grub looks fantastic!
If only I lived a little closer to Brum, I'd definitely try those baltis (even if they were half-portioned!).
Perhaps Chewy will share his take on a Balti? It's bound to be a good 'un. :)
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Perhaps Chewy will share his take on a Balti? It's bound to be a good 'un. :)
+1
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Excellent report Gav. I have eaten Baltis from Al Frash quite a few times. One of my friends always picks up a takeaway from there whenever he eats there. One thing I will say is how inconsistent they are. I've never noticed any gelatinous stuff but I can taste some kind of chicken stock- much like you get from a stock cube. It's only noticeable to me with the first mouthful tho. On the whole I find them very enjoyable. Don't think I would have managed a 4 hour drive home without scoffing at least one of the Baltic though!
Regards
Mick
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Gav
Was it a proper balti you bought in Worcester? Do you remember the name of the place?
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Gav
Was it a proper balti you bought in Worcester? Do you remember the name of the place?
Yep, (well I assumed so) it was one of the 'Mr Dave's Balti House'. It had just opened and 10 of us went whilst working at the shopping centre there. We all thought it was great but on our return a year later we were met with disappointment which invariably is the case I've found over the years with some of the places I've enjoyed. :(
Even worse when you've recommended them :-\
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What a shame I'd liked to have checked that out. PS Was probably the Crowngate shopping centre you worked at. :D
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Was probably the Crowngate shopping centre you worked at. :D
It was that thank you. Couldn't remember the name but remember the centre well.
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After the Adil naff stuff, These three curries were good and no complaints from me.
The Al frash Baltis had the look and texture of usual curries made with a base gravy
with a slight taste of a Garam mixed powder, not really my idea of Madras Hot, but hot enough to add to the flavour.
Chicken obviously precooked and
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Found an old promo vid of the Al frash chef doing a public demo with all the precooked ingredients and his Balti pans.
And, heaven forbid, on a domestic hob ;D ;D
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Good spot on the video, Chewy! I haven't seen that one.
Aye, Gav, a domestic hob - with flaming - no less! I think he had all 4 rings on the go, right enough. If I did that, I'd set myself on fire! :)
Was that pre-cooked sliced onions I saw going into the pan between 8.30-8.41? I didn't see any mix powder going in either.
I know it was only a expo demo, but the thing that interested me was the relatively small number of ingredients used. It was probably only basic curries, but unless I missed something (entirely possible!) the meals didn't look too busy in the ingredient department.
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GavIscon,
Well pleased you did not give up and found decent balti in the end.
I'd have had to have a naan for the car.
I think the stock only goes into meat dishes ie not chicken. There was no stock in the chicken balti I had at the adil.
The meat balti at the adil that I tasted did have stock but was in balance. I'm in no rush to crack the stock part of balti as the rest of it sorts me out (sauce, korahi and naan)
Al fresh it is when I next get chance. Half portions is a real turn off though and would weigh heavy on my mind too. Would have to ask before placing order given the heads up.
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Jerry,
The chicken tikka ones I had from the Adil in September were heavily laden with stock. I'd like to get some reports and perhaps try again now they've moved back to their original premises. Kushi and Imrans next time I'm down there. :)
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Gav, next time your in Ladypool road, pop into Rajah Bros and get a couple of those original steel Balti pans,
We could have a geordie Balti cooking session and a few of my (fresh ingredients) Karahi recipes
doing a side by side for comparison and a laugh.
I've been meaning to ask two or three retired Chefs how they cooked the original Baltis when the
fad arrived here back in the eighties. Time travel curries, should be fun. :D
cheers chewy
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...I've been meaning to ask two or three retired Chefs how they cooked the original Baltis when the
fad arrived here back in the eighties. Time travel curries, should be fun. :D...
Be sure to share, CT, by PM if you prefer. :)
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... next time your in Ladypool road, pop into Rajah Bros and get a couple of those original steel Balti pans,
We could have a geordie Balti cooking session and a few of my (fresh ingredients) Karahi recipes
doing a side by side for comparison and a laugh.
As my wifes old friend used to say, you must be telepathetic. :-\ I've been watching Balti videos and looking at the pans all this morning on ebay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-BALTI-PAN-CARBON-STEEL-COMMERCIAL-QUALITY-/250873154942?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Kitchen_Cookware_GL&hash=item3a69348d7e) etc. The 'real deal' pans would be great, I always like a bit of feel good factor. :) I wouldn't care but I glanced over to Raj Bros when I came out of Shabab and was tempted for a walk across for a bit browsing but the fact that the van I was in didn't lock put the block on it.
A geordie Balti day would be great fun, I've got a few ideas already of what I'd like to try. Bought some stewing beef to pre-cook yesterday which is now reserved. Just need another job near Birmingham now to collect some pans.
PS. For some reason my wife now thinks I'm to tragic for words. ???
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...For some reason my wife now thinks I'm to tragic for words...
You're not alone, mate...
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Just for those that missed the Ade video from the Adil when he was doing his travels, its now on youtube in glorious HD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8MhbLHpUGc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8MhbLHpUGc)
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Gav, next time your in Ladypool road, pop into Rajah Bros and get a couple of those original steel Balti pans,
We could have a geordie Balti cooking session and a few of my (fresh ingredients) Karahi recipes
doing a side by side for comparison and a laugh.
I've been meaning to ask two or three retired Chefs how they cooked the original Baltis when the
fad arrived here back in the eighties. Time travel curries, should be fun. :D
cheers chewy
Can I come too ?
Subject to vetting.
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Just for those that missed the Ade video from the Adil...
That would be me! Thanks, Gav! :)
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Great to hear you guys got a proper Birmingham balti! Good aren't they. I've been back to Adil's since they moved back to Stoney Lane. Top notch on this occasion. It's a no-go on the real-deal balti pans, regrettably. You won't get one from Rajah Bros. It was Uncles who used to sell them. They haven't had any for a long time. Ali at the Kushi told me they're not made any more and the restaurants are basically running out of them.
Rob :)
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Thats a shame, looks like it'll have to be ebay then.
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This video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ4WuRUD3ow (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ4WuRUD3ow)) is a University project but has some interesting clips in it. I'm still not sure what makes a Balti a Balti rather than being just a standard BIR curry in a bucket?
At the end of the video they narrate a recipe which doesn't contain any base sauce and that would fit with Adil's explanation of it being a fast cooked traditional curry. So basically it's a curry made without base sauce, cooked hot and fast with the liquid content derived from the fresh ingredients such as the tomatoes. And it appears (at least from the video linked to by Gav Iscon) they also use fairly coarsely ground spices and mix 'powders' rather than pre-bought ground spices.
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Birmingham ran/run a schools project to put Balti cooking on the curriculum.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/schoolreport/26741297 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/schoolreport/26741297)
Ingredients here
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2394335/Balti-Triangle-Birmingham-puts-curry-curriculum-children-ready-real-jobs.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2394335/Balti-Triangle-Birmingham-puts-curry-curriculum-children-ready-real-jobs.html)
Also when the curry guy asked Andy Munro, Birminghams Balti man, for a recipe he sent one with similar ingrediants to the one above for a single portion balti (again from the Shabab) but the curry guy goes on to say.
The slow cooked base curry sauce that would normally be used in restaurants was omitted from the following chicken balti recipe to make it easier for the home cook to try at home. That said, if you would like to have a go at making an authentic curry house style base sauce, you could try my recipe. My site features many recipes that call for the base curry house style sauce.
If you were to use it in this recipe, simply leave out the fried onion and tomato and used about 250ml of the base sauce instead.... Dan Toombs
http://www.greatcurryrecipes.net/2014/02/17/quick-and-easy-chicken-balti-for-one/ (http://www.greatcurryrecipes.net/2014/02/17/quick-and-easy-chicken-balti-for-one/)
As for the video you posted (which I watched today) I just think they missed the base bit out.
If you look in the comments I believe Alchemist (Paul Clay) has tried it and said it wasn't very good.
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Interesting vid, SS. Looks like the chef was putting in the core components of a mix powder without mixing them first. And he added them after the precooked meat which seemed unusual - to me, anyway. I suppose the high heat generated by the commercial burner would have cooked them out, but its sort of back to front for BIR style.
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this is a "high heat" that i don't agree on. from what ive tried i would only cook balti on Domestic heat (i use my 1kw lowest gas hob).
the spicing is gm based (not mix powder) and high heat destroys this taste. another key difference is no tom puree.
the balti dish is part of the final taste. i feel the dishes are heated (in an oven, i use 3kw gas hob) and the cooked balti poured in for serving (this produces just enough smoke).
the base is the only thing i need to taste.
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Interesting Reading for Balti Fans
The Balti: world trademark bid.
This is a copy of the official 'form' details of the
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Very interesting, Chewy! You do come up with some fascinating curry knowledge!
Haven't read this piece before, and didn't realise that Birmingham Balti had 'rules'. This text goes a little way to explaining how the Balti is put together and sets the various Balti videos in context. I always thought that the video demos, being so apparently simple in construction, were just for camera and the 'real' method and ingredients were reserved from prying eyes.
Plenty room for experimentation, mind you, but this info adds significantly to my knowledge base, at least.
Thanks for posting it up! :)
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However the Birmingham Balti has a number of specific characteristics which, when combined, represent this unique dish:
- It is fast cooked
- It is both cooked and served in a thin pressed steel pan called the
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They've got a bloody cheek trying to 'patent' it. ::)
They're not trying to patent it (with or without scare quotes), they are applying for a traditional specialities guaranteed (TSG) registration and I for one applaud them for so doing. TSG registrations benefit the consumer as well as the producer (think Brie de Meaux, Champagne, Harris Tweed) and if I could wander into a Balti House anywhere in the land and know that if they offered a Birmingham Balti on the menu then I would be guaranteed a genuine exemplar thereof, I would be a very happy man indeed. At the moment, and outside of the Balti Triangle, I suspect that 85%+ of all balties offered eschew most of the requirements of the TSG, and those who are stupid enough to order them get conned/ripped off as a result. My two pice.
** Phil.
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Has anyone seen this? Sorry if it's already been posted.
http://youtu.be/qJ4WuRUD3ow (http://youtu.be/qJ4WuRUD3ow)
Aiming to go to Birmingham this year to visit the balti triangle to try my first Birmingham Balti to celebrate my 50th birthday in December. I hope the balti did originate in Birmingham but like Tikka Masala, if there's money to be made out of it, there are always going to be lots of claims of authenticity. Tikka masala foreinstance is everywhere in India and has been for many years, whether it has gone full circle, who knows. I have also seen Balti in India although it is rare.
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Hmmm. I sincerely hope that Charlotte's tutor at Birmingham has helped her with her narration technique since she made that particular recording ...
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Bengali Bob and all Brum Balti fans
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I'm going to contact uncles tomorrow and ask them if they'll do a mail order. They might and it would certainly be a lot cheaper than travelling to Birmingham. However, if the Balti triangle is full of restaurants and Asian stores I will be like a kid in a sweetshop.
I've been to Brick Lane in London a few times and spent hours going from one Asian cash and carry to the other in utter excitement at all the wonderful things in there. End up leaving with bags ladened with pans, korai's, pickles, 4kg chunks of mutton etc etc. I remember having problems a couple of years ago trying to fit a 26 ltr aluminium stockpot for my garabi into a carrier bag and having to haul it back to the train. Does anyone know any large cash and Carries in Birmingham that sells this stuff?
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I'm going to contact uncles tomorrow and ask them if they'll do a mail order. They might and it would certainly be a lot cheaper than travelling to Birmingham. However, if the Balti triangle is full of restaurants and Asian stores I will be like a kid in a sweetshop.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,12276.msg115307.html#msg115307 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,12276.msg115307.html#msg115307)
Keep us informed please :)
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Thanks, will keep you informed. Just found this useful guide to the Birmingham balti triangle on the net.
http://www.davidsemporium.co.uk/Balti_Triangle_Guide_1.pdf (http://www.davidsemporium.co.uk/Balti_Triangle_Guide_1.pdf)
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Does anyone know any large cash and Carries in Birmingham that sells this stuff?
Not sure about Indian cash & carries in Birmingham as I have a local 1 to me in Wolverhampton I use, but if you are traveling to B'Ham its worth popping in to Wing Yip Chinese cash & carry nr the Villa ground.
Very well priced for all things from ingredients to hardware.
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Curryking32000
Aiming to go to Birmingham this year to visit the balti triangle to try my first Birmingham Balti to celebrate my 50th birthday
I dont live to far away from birmingham, 7 miles maybe, Went past racks of curry houses friday, Looking at them i dont think ide be eating in any of them, They looked dirty and run down, Disgusting.
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Well I've scoured the Interweb for plain steel balti dishes with horizontal handles for the Geordie Balti-Fest; but to no avail.
But there are some with upturned handles which could be bent down with the use of a blowtorch and a large pair of pliers, if that helps :)
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Well I've scoured the Interweb for plain steel balti dishes with horizontal handles for the Geordie Balti-Fest; but to no avail.
But there are some with upturned handles which could be bent down with the use of a blowtorch and a large pair of pliers, if that helps :)
And so have I. I found a similar pressed steel wok today at the Chinese cash and carry but with a rounded bottom. The hunt continues.
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I went in that shop up Ladypool road a couple of months back. They still have those balti pans. They're the same as they give you in Adils as pictured on the previous page. I don't know if it was called Uncle's all I remember is that they are pig ignorant in there.
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Thanks for the feedback MM. 8)
At least we know their still manufactured and sold on Ladypool Road
and that
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Closest thing i found here http://eastmanutensils.com/kadahi-balti-dish (http://eastmanutensils.com/kadahi-balti-dish)
Don't think they are the ones.
Also check these out http://www.blackcountrymetalworks.co.uk/indian-cookware.htm (http://www.blackcountrymetalworks.co.uk/indian-cookware.htm)
Need to do some shopping today or tomorrow will have a look at the shops i use, i know they do them in Dudley at Sandhars will find out.
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Are you actually supposed to cook in those pans or just eat out of them?
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Are you actually supposed to cook in those pans or just eat out of them?
Both :) :)
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That pan pic is quite a personal challenge for me. My history only covers the khyber pass which is outside the triangle yet known as balti.
I can't say I recognise the steel pan. I'm fairly sure the khyber has only used cast iron pan/balti dish. The adil seemed to me to use the same cast iron.
The steel pans will be very light and my memory says they weren't.
The short cooking time does sit right - most tables had 6 to 10 seated and although you often had to wait for the food it was because the place was heaving. I think I cook out at 5 mins on the hob c/w 7 for BIR. The base is thick being the difference.
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At least we know their still manufactured and sold on Ladypool Road
Just a shame, but these shops don't seem to have a web presence or
I would have had a couple by now.
Anyhoo, thanks for the feedback.
cheers Chewy ;)
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Hi Chewy
I do a job on the Stratford Road on a Wednesday. Ladypool Road isn't too far out of my way. I'm sure if you are desperate to get hold of these pans or anyone else. (I wouldn't mind a couple myself now I know you can cook in them!) I'd be able to send you some. Just cover the costs via PayPal or bank transfer and I'll post em to you.
MM
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I can't say I recognise the steel pan. I'm fairly sure the khyber has only used cast iron pan/balti dish. The adil seemed to me to use the same cast iron.
You are right Jerry, Way back in the day's [60s/70s/80s] when I first started having curry's, Balti was always served in a cast iron pan/dish, and that was down here in the southwest. so I would imagine it was pretty standard all round.
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Thanks for the kind offer MM, that would be great ;)
cheers Chewy
Les, Are you sure you were eating Birmingham Baltis before they were created.
Southwest Balti from the 60's, certainly a new angle on the subject. :)
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When I ate at the Adil in September it was in the pressed steel pan/bowl.
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Yep those are the ones they sell Gav.
No probs chewy. I can drop in this afternoon on the way if you like. If you PM me your phone number I'll send you some pics when I'm in the shop to make sure they are the ones you want.
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Les, Are you sure you were eating Birmingham Baltis before they were created.
Southwest Balti from the 60's, certainly a new angle on the subject. :)
Hi chewy,
A bit of a senior moment there I think, I can't remember putting in the 60s duh. but I don't think they would have been Birmingham balti's, not in Bath anyway. but definitely cast iron, probably balti in name only, (like so many are today) back then we didn't know any different.
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Definitely pressed steel pans at Adils Jerry.
Searched high and low for them to no avail. Nearest I got was some Teflon coated efforts. I removed the Teflon using the pyrolytic oven cleaning function on my trusty Smeg. Took the Teflon off a treat, but also cracked the glass in the door. >:( If the real-deal pans are back in stock on Ladypool Road I'll also be over there pronto :).
Rob :)
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Bob. I've just bought 5 from Uncle's ?6.99 a piece. Mild steel. Owner says he supplies Adil's.
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Bob. I've just bought 5 from Uncle's ?6.99 a piece. Mild steel. Owner says he supplies Adil's.
I've put my tree back up and am playing my Xmas albums. :) ;D
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Ha ha. Just wish I had the same amount of joy locating a jar of shatkora pickle!
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(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/149ba34f10857ee48a1aba1b234ccc70.jpeg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#149ba34f10857ee48a1aba1b234ccc70.jpeg)
Geordie Balti Cook Off on the starting blocks now. ;D ;D Curry Fun
They usually have Satkora Pickle in my local, I'll send you one.
Thanks again Mike
cheers Chewy
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Ha ha. Cheers chewy. That's the photo I tried to upload off my phone but it wouldn't allow it. Yeah it's a great little shop. I'll def be going back for pans etc at some point. I'll put em in the post tomorrow!
All the best
Mike
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Bob. I've just bought 5 from Uncle's ?6.99 a piece. Mild steel. Owner says he supplies Adil's.
I've put my tree back up and am playing my Xmas albums. :) ;D
:D
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...Geordie Balti Cook Off on the starting blocks now. ;D ;D Curry Fun
I completely choked on my beer when I misread that sentence... :)
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Bob
Many thanks for confirming Pressed steel at adil. Puts my mind at rest and Les's too (balti was late 70's for me). Quite amazing how the weight has led me to the wrong conclusion. I'd have put money on cast iron. My BIR pan being black steel and feeling light in comparison but maybe that's another wrong perception. The black steel does rust just to muddy the picture.
I guess the 2 balti pans I have must be pressed steel (eBay and rusholme) - they don't rust and are heavy. Given the pic not authentic though. They do work though (caramelise, smoke, retain heat).
It does not help that my zaal omelette pan is very much what I would think of as pressed steel ie thin. It does not rust either but is no good to cook curry in (burns not caremelise)
Looking forward to chewytikka and Gav lscon's balti cook off. Be interesting to see how the authentic pan performs in comparison to the BIR Ali pan.
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............It does not help that my zaal omelette pan is very much what I would think of as pressed steel ie thin. It does not rust either but is no good to cook curry in (burns not caremelise)......
Don't worry too much Jerry, I'm expecting a few in the bin but it'll all be good fun and as one of my mates always says...Every day's a school day. :) :)
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Bob. I've just bought 5 from Uncle's ?6.99 a piece. Mild steel. Owner says he supplies Adil's.
This is fantastic news. Thanks Mike. There have been a few balti developments here and I'm looking forward to Jerry clearing out my freezer. It's still an ongoing investigation so I'm going to keep a low profile. Here's a a couple of pics to be going on with though. :)
Base (frozen)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/61e0b91c1e279be37aced57a8f835af8.jpg)
Pre-cooked chicken
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/3b26a052801d1511e75c0167143ac3f9.jpg)
Pre-cooked lamb
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/d90006c8e424becab1e45a11419d1fd8.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/38389a9fd45519874c11e0040b121980.jpg)
Rob :)
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Looking good Bob. So is the balti secret out then? :)
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Gav Iscon,
It's purely interest not worry.
The one thing of interest being the continuing cooking around the rim of the dish/pan after it's served.
At the time I frequented balti my focus was far from the food. The one thing that sticks in memory (difference from BIR) was how hot the dishes were and they cooked on for some time after they were served at the table. They also produced some smoke.
The interest being how this was done when the food is cooked in the same dish. It's not an empty interest so to speak I have tried hot frying in my dishes/pans which led to the pre heating approach.
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they cooked on for some time after they were served at the table. They also produced some smoke.
The interest being how this was done when the food is cooked in the same dish
Unless you've actually been in the kitchen when they're cooking the Baltis you're making an assumption that they're "cooked in the same dish".
I think the whole balti pan idea is purely for presentation and show (particularly when cameras are around, to reinforce the myth). The curries themselves are most likely cooked as normal and then added to a preheated Balti pan which is why you see the smoke effect you describe.
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If the balti pan is thin pressed steel I don't understand how it can retain enough heat to keep cooking once served at the table. Are we actually talking about some kind of cast iron sizzler plate?
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The pressed steel pans seem thick enough to retain heat for a little while at least. Although not used mine yet so can't tell for definite. I'm not sure if many restaurants cook in them. When I went to Saleem's I could see into the kitchen and they were definitely cooking in large frying pans then transferring to balti dishes to serve.
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Unless you've actually been in the kitchen when they're cooking the Baltis you're making an assumption that they're "cooked in the same dish".
Not making an asumption at all, just following whats written down about it.
The Birmingham Balti is a style of cooking where every chef uses a different combination of spices but cooks in a thin pressed steel
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Is your blood group B-Negative by any chance. :) ;)
I don't know about SS, but mine is; what is the significance ?
** Phil.
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Off topic Phil. Stick to discussing Balti cooking in this thread please.
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My fault i apologise :-X
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Heres a pic of the pan on my place setting so you can get an idea of size. The steels thicker than I thought.
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Your post was about Balti Gav and a funny one liner isn't a problem. Phil's added nothing at all to the subject, there's the difference. Twice in one day I'm noticing Phil has issues with staying on topic.
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Off topic Phil. Stick to discussing Balti cooking in this thread please.
It wasn't Phil it was Gav being a smart arse!
And Phil, he means Be Negative (geddit?). Not entirely sure how he sees my post as negative but it takes all sorts.
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When I need your permission to post, Sverige, I'll ask for it; in the meantime, just stick to making your own contributions and don't try to tell others how to make theirs.
** Phil.
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They arrived! Fantastic!
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And Phil, he means Be Negative (geddit?). Not entirely sure how he sees my post as negative but it takes all sorts.
Ah, thank you. A bit slow on the uptake at the moment ...
** Phil.
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They arrived! Fantastic!
Nearly had my lamb chop dinner out of it ;D ;D
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I blagged a portion of gravy of a TA New Year's Eve. I can see me defrosting it Friday and having a curry sesh with the pans. :-)
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Heres a pic of the pan on my place setting so you can get an idea of size. The steels thicker than I thought.
Do you intend to season it in any way?
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Interesting point you make SS, think I would also be tempted to season a little if I had my hands on it.
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I've seasoned mine as I was advised by the guy in the shop.
Can't wait to put them through their paces. What I like is that there is a little well at the bottom of the pan to concentrate the oil and help fry off spices and g&g tarka style. Will be interesting to see if this improves the cooking process and thus the quality of the finished dish. I find in a larger, flatter pan the spices can soak up the oil and burn or not cook correctly - unless of course you use tons of oil!
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Do you intend to season it in any way?
Certainly do. It'd got a light covering of machine oil at the minute which well get removed and I'll then season it a bit.
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http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/01/27/world/europe/shove-over-cornish-pasty-balti-curry-vies-for-a-spot-on-britains-culinary-honor-roll.html?_r=1&referrer= (http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/01/27/world/europe/shove-over-cornish-pasty-balti-curry-vies-for-a-spot-on-britains-culinary-honor-roll.html?_r=1&referrer=)
Just seen this on twitter. Adils and shebabs on the NY Times website.
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Well, when an opportunity arose for a bit work at the NEC yesterday, the temptation was too much and a visit to the Balti Triangle was on the cards. :) Plan was Laziza pastes, spot of lunch and a couple of takeawys for sampling at Chewys on the way home. Laziza Tikka Boti paste was a failure after 4 shops so just went back to Rajahs and got a couple of the tandoori paste. Lunch at Imrams was nice with Seekh Kebab and a Chicken Balti madras hot. I also got another Chiken Balti Madras hot to take home. Next was a trip to the Kushi Balti house on Moseley road which was shut when we got there. Plan B was Al Faisals on Stoney Lane, a few doors up from the new Adil now back at its original place. To continue with the trend, I ordered another Chicken Balti madras hot.
It was a shame to walk by the now closed Saleems whilst on Ladypool Road and wish I'd got there before it closed its doors forever.
Anyway, 5 hours later back at Chewy's and first up was Al Faisals.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/27a64d8189adb7ad4d957a7e52a5b3f6.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#27a64d8189adb7ad4d957a7e52a5b3f6.jpg)
Oh dear. Top of the carton was like a mexican oil disaster and the photo already had a syringe full of oil removed before the it was taken. Curry was actually a lot darker than the photo. Probably the worst curry I've had for a while/ever. Very hot and very very harsh with slightly dry tasteless chicken. Its the first time I've seen Chewy pull a face when eating something. He wasn't impressed either. Trying the leftovers today and I wonder if the chef forgot it was Madras hot and then on remembering just threw a load of fresh chili and chili powder in at the end. So much so, I've had to admit defeat and in the bin its gone which is a rairity for me. :( :-\ An awful curry.
Next up, Imrans on Ladypool Road. This was recommended on my last vist by the lad on the counter at Al Frash recommending the lamb chops for starter for which I didn't try.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/82bfc5d81062f850e2531ce8179cd8f2.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#82bfc5d81062f850e2531ce8179cd8f2.jpg)
Same brief, Chicken Balti madras hot and I have to say this was nice (they like their oil though). Much like the one I brought back from the Al Frash the last time. The Balti's like this to me are very light and fresh tasting and I would quite happily eat one again on a regular basis. Theres a slight taste which stands out in the Imrans and the Al Frash one that I can't put my finger on and having a whiff yesterday side by side with some Mangal Balti mix and the same smell is in both. I reckon with a bit trial and error with the Mangal stuff and you wouldn't be far away. The Ade Edmundson /Adil special balti is a different thing all together.
Both baltis around the
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Nice update Gav. Are you sure about binning the hot offerings though? I may have enjoyed that ::)
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Nice update Gav. Are you sure about binning the hot offerings though? I may have enjoyed that ::)
The missus commented that it must have been bad as she's never ever known me to bin anything. ::)
It wasn't good.
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They do look oily. Gav, even by Geordie standards. Please don't tell me that was it heated up :)
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I'm afraid it was Garp. Properly nuked in the microwave then transfered to the dish for the snapshot. On the first one Chewy took a small syringe full of oil of but there still was loads left. There probably would have been nearly a centimetre floating around the sides of the tub when I got it home.
The second one (Imrans) was untouched and had no where near as much oil as the Al Faisal one (but still a lot)
Heres another photo of the first one where that colours came out wrong due to the flash. The actual colour was midway between the 2 photos I've done. The syringe of oil had been removed
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/56e86733739335a95a8ea4f3d6b0328b.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#56e86733739335a95a8ea4f3d6b0328b.jpg)
And a close up of the Imrans one
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/9ced699bf23424ecc16ec0cefc5eae70.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#9ced699bf23424ecc16ec0cefc5eae70.jpg)
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I take it you won't be going back there then, Gav.
If it is too oily, the sauce tends to congeal, as it naturally tries to retreat from the heat and forms a coagulated mess (but you know that).
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The Al Faisal definitely not. I did enjoy the Imrans one and would go back. They seem to be a lot heavier on the oil down that neck of the woods than up here.
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Also on a slightly different note, Chewy pointed out the slight plagiarism on Imrans menu which had the same colour scheme and look of a certain Supermarkets healty range ::)
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Great report Gav. The Imran balti looks lovely.
Rob :)
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The oil is not something I think of for balti - the opposite to BIR.
I hope the lower price of oil is not a bad omen - picked up 20 litre for 13? this week. Al Faisal have taken it to heart for sure.
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It needs careful handling- so as not to flood the market.
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Having trip this friday. Taking my heavy pan to smuggle into the authentic pan shop. Still have bit of the accent so should be ok.
Hoping to get to the bottom of all this oil.
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Report on the day too long for a post.
Host was top notch and brill day with much info and discussion - loved every minute even the rotisserie chicken.
Very clear that balti has evolved since 77 with no wrong answers depending on the date stamp.
Bengali bob had already done the hard work at Xmass - in my eyes I have a block of solid gold in my freezer. Going to ice cube size it and get on with my homework.
In short balti base is a dumb down version of BIR perhaps both very similar in the distant past. Of course the dumbing down not applying to the spicing which is a type of challenge i like.
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Looking forward to your days write up and also your base findings. :)
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Also looking forward to a longer post from you Jerry. First time 'proper' Balti for me... thanks for driving. Also first time I've ever seen Mr Naga for ?2 a jar at one of the local shops.
You said to me that the Adil was better the previous time you went, and I can believe that. The balti was good on this occasion, but crying out for some Garam Masala type aromatics.
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Just picked up on this Thread JerryM, did you manage to get in to a Balti kitchen? Look forward to your Input. Base I should imagine is onion, toms and spice? Just a guess :D
Thanks.
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Hi
Sadly the only gem I was able do glean from a balti chef was the use of tamarind in his base.
Regards
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Littlechilli,
No we did not get in a kitchen (have no need). Bengalibob managed to get a portion of base which I now have and working on. May start new post for the detail depends how it goes.
Already had 1st go and got stuck. The base really seems to have nothing in it which makes it very difficult to copy cat. Commis may well of helped - my 1 st go was far too sweet and not dark enough.
Rob was right on the day suggesting the base was packed with oil. I used 120g of veg oil in 800g onion and could not get it to surface.
A long way to go though.
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...... May start new post for the detail depends how it goes.....
I hope you mean a new post in the Three Baltis thread Jerry. Personally I think it should all stay here as its all on the 'Birmingham Balti'
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I hope you mean a new post in the Three Baltis thread Jerry. Personally I think it should all stay here as its all on the 'Birmingham Balti'
Agreed, all balti info that's worth follow up is within this one post :D
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Agreed, all balti info that's worth follow up is within this one post :D
Hoi... Easy tiger, theres a good post on the EU status applied for Geordie Balti somewhere on here ;D
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Jerry
One thing I have noticed about the Al Frash baltis I have eaten has been a slightly coarse texture by which I mean its as if it hasn't been blended for long enough? The subtle flavours were frustratingly familiar but so far I have not been able to identify many. Cant say I have tasted any sour notes like tamarind though.
I think a lot more ginger than garlic, say 80:20? plenty of coriander powder and a small amount of turmeric. Just my tuppenth worth
The balti "Holy Grail" seems way beyond my reach.
Best of luck to you Jerry and Bengali Bob.
It seems that less is more (and i dont mean that in any derogatory way George). Im sure that when the Balti is cracked, we will all be kicking ourselves over its simplicity.
Regards
Mick
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...In short balti base is a dumb down version of BIR perhaps both very similar in the distant past. Of course the dumbing down not applying to the spicing which is a type of challenge i like.
Interesting, MDB, that you mention "less is more". Chimes perfectly with Jerry's take on Balti quoted above. I'm sure Jerry will be the guy to crack it. His tenacity, inquisitiveness, attention to detail and analytical approach is pretty unique on this forum.
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My Al Frash was spot on Mick and the Imran was very similar, no course texture and what I could only describe as light and fresh. Both Chewy and I agreed that that there is a stand out taste for which we could smell in his Mangal balti mix. I'm sure you'll be right that we'll be slapping our stupidity when its cracked. I wish I could buy them up here. My only other problem is that i've been to a few now and only 2 have been similar with the rest a million miles away. Will the real 'Birmingham Balti' please stand up.
I'll be back for more.
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Light and fresh Gav. Yes I agree Not heavy nor sickly. Dangerously addictive. I cant savour a good balti.... I have to wolf it down. Without a doubt my favourite curry
100%. Spot on too Naga.
Jerry is the best man for the job without a doubt. Im just getting restless. Its been a while since we have heard much on the balti front from Bengali Bob for the last couple of weeks.......
Regards
Mick
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......Im just getting restless.......... .
Impatient bugger...we've only been waiting a year and a half ;)
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many thanks for all the thoughts they are appreciated - you never know what will lead to that break through.
alas i'm stuck. ive now made Rev2 base and starting to understand the real base and how poor mine is in comparison.
this is all hit and miss and wont put the detail into this post.
there is an overriding flavour in the real base - that i've never come across. if you asked me to say what it tastes like i'd say i don't know. if you forced me to say it would be some form of gravy browning but i'm convinced it's not.
have attached pic of the Rev2 comparison which shows the big gap. easy to pick out the real deal
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/5482fa315528ae0de7cd589afe932491.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#5482fa315528ae0de7cd589afe932491.jpg)
summary so far:
1) not blended
2) tamarind is in
3) no turmeric
4) lots of oil (none at dish frying like i think Taz)
5) on look out for this missing taste - going to buy fresh methi and rose petal (if i can get in warrington)
on the upside - the adil recipe and chef masala developed earlier in this thread are delivering. everything has been eaten and enjoyed.
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Hi JerryM,
Some sort of gravy browning ? Could Demi Glace be a possibility? It's always used in commercial stocks.
Regards.
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Interesting vid, SS. Looks like the chef was putting in the core components of a mix powder without mixing them first. And he added them after the precooked meat which seemed unusual - to me, anyway. I suppose the high heat generated by the commercial burner would have cooked them out, but its sort of back to front for BIR style.
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Littlechilli,
Many thanks - I don't know Demi glaze but will read up.
I'm on Rev3. No1 issue is how to get the copy cat base as dark as the real thing. Stuck for ideas.
The fresh methi is absolutely brill - had come close to buying in past but always questioned use in BIR given the dry stuff. The fresh is defo in.
Asked at local shop how to get meat taste without meat - came away with east end soya chunks - a bit like pork scratchings. Shame I don't know any dog owners. I now think the missing taste is brand or combo.
Still might just get those rose leaves
As for cooking method im currently on the Lenny Henry (fellow mucker) method having used the adil video method ie oil before starting on this base. Have well impressed my boss by returning with balti in 3 min cooking time (7 being BIR norm).
Of slight interest cooked 1 off CT red CTM using the base and customer loved it same as usual - the existence of what I know as "threshold" - if it (base) passes muster it will do.
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Rev3 base was used as crock pot using adil chicken balti recipe. 4 portions woofed down. The base was well balanced with the tamarind sitting just nicely.
Rev4 base is made. Popular demand.
The darkening is now sorted and no longer an issue. Cooking just the onion for 6 hrs then mashing fully then cooking spice 1 hr.
Have added in some tom pur?e to get closer to the red colour - felt it worked well and adopted.
Have added in touch of bought gm (jalpur) thinking I don't have enough base spicing. Interesting to see what effect it has on the base taste in the morning.
THAT single taste that I don't know of is now the only issue. I feel I will have to break off back onto the spice tasting trials for inspiration. Its defo not a meat flavour. By switching to the BBQ tandoori masala ive got closer. Still need to try rose petal.
Gut feeling now is that it's done in the spicing via a combination.
The plain par boiled stripped chicken is going down a treat.
Turmeric is big no no and I think heavy in the TRS brand tandoori masala which is the only spoiling.
Perhaps need a Bengali bob trip up north.
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Soya chunks will not give you any meat flavour at all, they are tasteless.
I tried to use these Devils Pellets to make a curry, after soaking overnight, what a complete waste of time the texture of these things is revolting, mushy and just plain horrible.
One local T/A near me has said that you need a good Balti Garam Masala powder mix to add near to the end of cooking then mix in and serve, whether this is true or not i have no idea, i don't add it to my Balti's just to a Karahi which lifts the dish, i used to use ground whole coriander seeds dry roasted and added to a Karahi recipe towards the end of cooking.
One thing that might help in making Baltis is to use a slice of fresh lemon added to the dish when adding the 2nd ladle of base, because of the oil in the dish it seems to caramelize the lemon, giving it a quite sourish and sweet flavour but not too overpowering.
Now this might be a regional thing to me but this is what the flavour of Baltis taste like from my local T/A's and restaurants.
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Unclefrank,
Appreciate thoughts.
Yes for sure soya rubbish.
The gm as you say is critical and I have started to play around with the copycat of the adil sample we got last year. Feel touch less cumin and more ajwain and perhaps fennel or aniseed. I am adding to both base and dish but early on.
I use lemon in BIR (per axe) base. It will be next tier. This taste i don't recognise needs cracking 1st before anything else. I feel I need to get some packets of spice ive not tried before.
Rev4 base - all eaten and best yet. Cooked dish crockpot.
Going fwd taking the pur?e out of the dish ingredients as I think its needed and best in the base. Depends how it's cooked ie with or without oil / spice fry.
Jalpur did nothing.
Going to keep tweaking the rev4 to get the balance 100%. Need to crack this single flavour though. Trouble i can't really think of many/any spice I can relate it too.
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Rev 5 all eaten cooked crock pot.
A new colander to mash the base turned out rubbish and still on the search. The mesh dia must need to be much greater than say 5 mm.
Never really thought about how blending lightens cooked onion base. If you heat it again the darkness comes back. The colour part is now sorted having had encouragement from rsholme123. Last time i cooked the onion base 6 hrs without any real difference. This time left it un disturbed ie no stirring. This works and is adopted.
So say the colour and texture is now essentially cracked.
Onto spice. I looked through lists of spice and I know all that are listed in my balti books. I also feel I know all the common ones too. In browsing my local store I picked up poppy seed and split yellow mustard. Both seemed to sit well. Am pretty sure 1 is part of the taste I'm searching. I need to increase the amounts next to understand what they do better.
Finally the amount of onion per portion has been bugging 200g say c/w say 130g BIR. Could wrong and might account for the vast amount of oil (which I've not used). In short tried split red lentil. Certainly thickens the base. Its a new ingredient for me so treading gently. It could be an ingredient.
Still a good way off the McCoy base yet the final dish is very close which makes you think how exact you need to be.
Lost the sweetness this time in the base perhaps the mustard seed.
Family now big balti fans. Need to get them off rice though.
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on Rev6 took out the chef masala (gm) in the base.
this sorted the cumin overpower.
trouble was the base ended up lacking flavour which carried forward into the crockpot curry. spice was 0.5% c/w 0.6% (based on chopped onion volume) on the rev5 so quite close margins.
going to up the spice as is on the next go and hoping this fixes the taste of the base. if not im looking for an additional ingredient.
these being ingredients so far in descending order of weight:
onion
water thinning
oil
split red lentil
tomato puree
v.ghee
salt
garlic
tandoori masala
f.methi
tamarind
black cardamom
chilli (kashmiri)
bay european
star anis
poppy seed
black pepper (grd)
paprika
still some way to go but happy im in ballpark of taste which a few weeks ago felt was beyond me.
ive not chucked put the split yellow mustard seeds but the packet is near the door.
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Rev 7 made and eaten crockpot.
Focus now on getting the cooking right (cardamon husk, split lentil, whole spice)
Bengali bob has put me onto an ingredient known to the site which I'd never used and whilst sounding wacky might just be the least piece. Will need to get to know it a bit more. Don't want to cause unnecessary laughing.
I also feel the crockpot whilst I will still keep for tea just won't cut it for street food. In short need to try the base out for real on single portion cooking.
I feel im at say 8 against 10 for adil when its on form.
Need a sanity check from bob if we can get him north over the summer.
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Hi Jerry, BB etal,
I am keen on having a pop at a few baltis, what are you guys using as your Balti spice mixes currently? Also, how much of each per meal?
My own experience of BIR and Balti House Balti is similar to that of any other recipie in BIR cooking - varied! One resto has a wildly different interpretation of what Balti should taste like to the next it appears. But i do agree aniseed and a freshly ground spices hit near to the end of the cooking fits the bill.
Thanks for the help,
Steve
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Spent the last couple of days at the NEC and with a night in between, it would be rude not to give the Balti triangle a visit. Plan was to go to Shababs on Ladypool Road as it was on the to try list. Mate with me had never been before and on the way in and transport being a Transit, I envisaged parking being a pain. Driving past Adils, now back in its former location, lo and behold there was a perfect parking opportunity so I thought stuff it I'll give the Adils another go even after being disappointed the last time I went. So parked up outside, in we went into a rather smart refurbished restaurant.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/047cb6a0851bc7ae985060ac4c829248.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#047cb6a0851bc7ae985060ac4c829248.jpg)
Menu is here for those interested http://www.adilbalti.co.uk/menu1.pdf (http://www.adilbalti.co.uk/menu1.pdf)
A couple of poppadoms to start and Seekh Kebab for starter which was very nice.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/310fe1b60a7504a3d371afc6c4dc3c7b.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#310fe1b60a7504a3d371afc6c4dc3c7b.jpg)
For mains , I had Chicken Balti (madras hot) with a plain naan and my mate had Balti Sehat Angaiz (Bhuna style dish cooked with chicken mince, king prawns and peas) with pilau rice. The chicken dishes either come strip or cubes. I chose the strip.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/00efff855ae63bf8fef5701ee7462524.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#00efff855ae63bf8fef5701ee7462524.jpg) Chicken Balti madras hot
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/90e4038a4ee40a388dc5646996c3400e.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#90e4038a4ee40a388dc5646996c3400e.jpg) Balti Sehat Angaiz
Mine was a definite improvement on the last lot i got from here but did'nt in my opinion have the light and fresh taste of the one I had at Imrans. Very nice though and it contained quite a few bits of fresh chili for heat. The Balti Sehat Angaiz my mate had was really nice and if I go back that'll be my main choice. Mate thought his was a bit salty as he doesn't do salt at all but I found them not to bad.
Bill came to just over
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Great story! looks ok don't it :)
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Good report and photos, Gav. Just the job for anyone (like me!) who doesn't know the area. The grub looks pretty good too! Imagine bumping into someone with a not-so-distant connection to Chewy - it's a small world right enough! :)
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I think I have had a bit of a Eurika Moment
Had some friends over at the week end and made a big pot of CTM using jb's recipe for the sauce, and my recipe for the marinade.Must say it myself but it was bloody nice even though I never usually eat the stuff. I wasn't sure what else to cook, and as I had plenty of Abdul Moheds Enhanced Gravy simmering away, I thought I would have a little play around.
The elusive Balti is my real Nemisis. Its such a shame that Bengali Bob and JerryM arent about much these days to help with the quest so now I must push forward and hope that my "discovery" will help move us all closer to achieving the true balti taste (subject to regional variation of course).
Now I am not saying that I have cracked the (Lets call it) "Original Birmingham Balti" but feel sure I have moved a significant step closer.
I decided to go back to the beginning as it were, and simply make a curry without adding any extra spice to the gravy whatsoever!
I fried about 2 tbsp finely chopped onions in about 2 chef spoons of ghee until soft, then added 1 tsp garlic paste & 1 tsp ginger paste and fried it for a couple of minutes until it had stopped spitting. I Then added 1 ladle gravy and reduced down until the oil seperated. Did this 2 more times and then added 1.5 tsp balti massala with the last ladle of gravy, and a generous measure of fresh chopped Coriander (or 2 measures if your name is Garp lol).
All the way through cooking, the colour was right - that was the big stand-out point to be honest. Sounds unimportant I know, but something just tells me this is moving in the right direction.
The taste?
The spicing level was right in quantity, but wrong in taste.
I had 4 attempts using different massalas but didnt come close to achieving the final "Birmingham Balti"taste
Regards
Mick
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Nice to see this thread revisited, Mick. As someone who has never had the pleasure of a genuine Balti, I had high hopes that someone would crack the dish, and it seemed like BB and JerryM were on a very positive track.
I know Bob has posted a little recently, but JerryM just seems to have fallen off a cliff (not literally, I hope!) and his sudden disappearance from the forum was a surprise. He had a truly analytical approach to recipe development and his unexplained absence is a real loss. I do hope he is in good health.
Anyway, more power to your elbow, Mick, and good luck with your research. :)
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Cheers Bud
When the going gets tough etc
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Mick why don't you try the balti garam masala which they were working on as the spice addition. I got the impression that that was the critical part from what bb and Jerry were saying. It's buried in this extraordinarily long thread somewhere!
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SS Ive tried loads and nothing comes close to where I need it to be.
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I tried something from one of Jerry's spreadsheets and had really good results. As I mentioned on the thread before I've never tried a 'real' balti so never really knew if it was the taste people were looking for. I miss this thread and I miss Jerry's contributions :'(.
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Yes. I miss his input too
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Shabab's balti cooking, from 24mins. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07zchsg/hairy-bikers-chicken-egg-6-uk-2
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Great find Mike, very interesting to see chef in action although I thought he slightly over cooked the dish..
Fresh ingredients can't go wrong ...,
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Yes he did ruin it a bit didn't he! I'd be interested to know if the garam masala was shop bought or homemade and if the base was really just onions, garlic, ginger and spices as he says.
Some vids on their website aswell. Note the tray of dark red seasoned oil. http://shababs.co.uk/media-center/
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I'm going to take a look now, many thanks.
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Hi Mike, nice red oil from precooking meats and reclaiming the oil, you can see a little of the meat stock sediment at the bottom of the spoon. But Wow to the amount of oil and Garlic!
Another fantastic insight, simple fresh food, I use the precooked stock and oil myself it makes a big difference to the flavour.
Many thanks for the link I enjoyed viewing these videos.
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Hi Mike, loved the history Chanel vid, I have never seen the chicken tikka cooked on stove from fresh and reduced down like that. I will be trying this method as looked nice and juicy after marinating all night..
Must say the spices and garam masala all looked shop brought to me They all looked fine commercial grind.. what did you think ?
Thanks.
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Good TV MM. ;D ;D ;D A bit of Theatre
But not the best advert for the restaurant.
The young owner totally hammered / incinerated the dish, taking flaming for the camera to the extreme.
Had to laugh as the Bikers were scraping the stuck chicken off the bottom of the Balti Pan
and Dave Myers said he liked the charcoal crispy bits, Really.
A bit of a shame as Ive tasted a couple of baltis from the same place and
they were probably as good as your going to get in that area.
page 40 on this thread.
Another thing I noticed, He showed his Stamped Balti Pan, then switched it
to an Uncles Balti Pan to cook the dish, of which he had a good stack of, on the cooker.
Anyhoo, a good watch apart from the CBBC format, Biker team must be running out of ideas.
Just watched the other promo vids, his kitchen staff seemed a bit -issed off about
celebs learning to cook and in there domain.
Why would you fry Tikka off in a wok, with loads of oil when you have a Tandoor Oven sitting there?
Much more entertaining TV if they used it on camera.
cheers Chewy ;D
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LC Yes I thought the GM was about the same shade as say the East End version, which does make replication a little easier for us I suppose.
CT I didn't notice him swap the pan, well spotted. I did notice the use of fresh chicken, not pre-cooked, in Si and Dave's curry. I wondered if that was standard?
I also noticed one other thing... Did you see the guy put a little indent in the naan bread before whacking it in the tandoor??? :o
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I compared the cooking of these baltis and noticed that the Adil one never added onions which I find strange. There appeared more spices added in the Shabab version, what do you think?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7CBbWW-4U0&feature=share
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8MhbLHpUGc&feature=share
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Every balti house's interpretation of the dish is different in my experience but I think that's what makes things more interesting when visiting different places.
Check out the oil on top of the base in this vid 1:20. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T-HxmACgdEs
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Me, my wife and son went to Shebabs two weeks back
There's a giant picture of "the hairy bikers" as you walk in
Complementary poppadoms and dips while we waited for the main dishes
Three curries all served in balti bowls along with three naans
Saag paneer balti, chick pea and paneer balti,a and vegetable jalfrezi balti
Chilli naan, garlic naan and coriander naan
we also had a fried rice with it (we ordered pilau rice but not worth complaining)
The curries were fine but not spectacular
I think I could match the quality
Pretty much like any curry you'd make with everything fresh, rather than pre cooked
The novelty was eating them from the bowl they were cooked in
So as soon as I can I'm getting some balti bowls
Not so easy as you might think
Took a little while to find out the bowls are made from pressed steel, and not iron (as some reports say)
and definitely not the stainless steel
The latter just being serving dishes, and definitely not suitable for cooking in
Hope to get some proper bowls in a couple of months
I wouldn't mind returning to Shebabs, but I feel more inclined to try another Balti restaurant in the so called ":Balti Triangle"
It all came to about 34 pounds
A pleasant meal, and a good memory
But the restaurant I REALLY wanted to visit was the Kushi Balti House
I've got the book and wanted the T shirt
As far as I can tell, it's closed
Can't get in touch with them, whatever the case and their web site is all out of date
Real shame
Does anyone know anything about them?
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We always go to Adil's, the other restaurant shown and have been going there for over thirty years regularly, I'm not the expert but my husband rates it highly, don't know anything about the other restaurant but know that they tend to come and go and only the best appear to survive.
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I went to Shebab's in February. As you say fine, but not spectacular. Done Adil's that was good, Saleem's (now shut) was also good and Khyber Pass good.
Kushi when I went about two years ago was very disappointing but oddly their book I think with the odd tweak makes as good a BIR tasting curry as you'll get.
I think Al Frash is the next on the list...
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thanks folks
Adil and Al Frash
two to try!
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Hi All
Can I ask in this recipe it calls for Cloves (Pimento)
Is this whole/ground Clove or something different . . .unaware of Clove Pimento
Thanks in advance for any replies
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Huh?
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Obviously did not put my question over too well
In the GM recipe it calls for Clove (Pimento) Page 26 of this thread
What spice is this ?
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Obviously did not put my question over too well. In the GM recipe it calls for Clove (Pimento) Page 26 of this thread. What spice is this ?
I see only 11 (eleven) pages in this thread. The phrase "Clove (Pimento)" is found by the site's search engine only in your question. If you could use the site's "Quote" function (as I did, in replying to you) to cite the exact stretch of text to which you refer, we may be better placed to help you.
** Phil.
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It's Reply #256 on: January 12, 2014, 10:27 AM by JerryM:
okmate,
the balti mix powder is at the Naga link ie for the curry powder i used bassar but any would do to start with
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/2883e09cb7be3d415da4337855fdcd89.JPG)
the GM or chef garam at the Naga link has now been revised to:
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/f0f1c1c32856b9eb5bffa1deaefe1939.JPG)
the dish recipe is still in work but currently is here http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,12276.msg102622.html#msg102622 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,12276.msg102622.html#msg102622)
say if things still don't make sense
In Reply #156 on: October 17, 2013, 06:09 PM JerryM writes:
cloves don't jump out for me as a BIR ingredient or Balti. i have never used them and don't intend to. i do have pimento on my mind but it's quite different.
So I believe pimento being allspice/pimenta? :)
Cheers! :)
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Thanks Chonk for the reply
Yes after asking The google he told me it (maybe) is Allspice
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These are cloves
https://www.organicfacts.net/health-benefits/herbs-and-spices/health-benefits-of-cloves.html