Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: jb on April 20, 2014, 04:08 PM
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I went for my usual Friday night curry,a different place from my usual but both the food and service were both excellent.Anyway halfway through the meal the Manager came up and we got talking about all things BIR.I told him about my cooking skills/lessons etc and he was very impressed,I told him I had my own tandoori oven and then he realised I wasn't pulling his leg.
Anyway,it turns out his chef uses two gravies(or garabis as he called them).One for spicy dishes and one for mild,non-spicy dishes.I said this was unusual to me and he said that's just the way his chef likes to do it.He said his chef puts very little oil in his gravies,no scooping off the top of the gravy to start a dish,just plain vegetable oil.He said an oily gravy means oily curries-no good.The main thing though to making BIR curries is the garabi,if this is not right then the curries will not have 'that' taste.He said this a few times and said it was very,very important your gravy is cooked right.
I cheekily asked him if I could get a sample of his gravies and he smiled and said ok.Off he went into the kitchen(it was open planned so you could see what was going on).I watched the chef spoon the gravies into some foil dishes and he looked highly amused.He then came out and shook my hand and said in all the years of being a chef no-one has ever asked him for a sample of his garabi.He kindly labelled the up for me.
Anyway here is the mild gravy,its actually in two separate dishes....
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/162965b2d232103b5ef02102d2857147.JPG)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/a3e118b97ffda04ebcce2c447c81ba1b.JPG)
The first one was really,really watery.Not much taste at all,just a hint of star anise,more a like a stock than a gravy.The second was like a thick paste,tasting just really of coconut(no sugar)and little else.
I couldn't work out how these were actually used by the chef,the manager had a strong accent and was hard to understand at times.He said they were used for all mild dishes,kormas,massalas etc.It was certainly a new base technique to me.
This was the spice gravy,for madras,bhunas etc....
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/80b9f8480d46e69cb23d4d534b6b591e.JPG)
Now this REALLY blew me away.It was definitely base gravy,I watched him spoon it out of the big pot.It was very similar to my own base gravy I use(or rather the Little India base gravy.)However there was an incredible depth of BIR flavour and smell.The sort you get when you open a take-away bag.I compared it to my own gravy and there was no comparison.I've never made a gravy that has 'that' smell or taste.It's almost as if my gravy is not quite finished,as though there is something else that goes in it to finish it off.It got me back to thinking of Chris' magic paste,I've tried to dismiss that as just another bhager of some sort but now I'm forced to think again.This gravy was way out of my league,I just wish I knew what they'd put in it.It's great getting into kitchens but this made me realize that maybe my curries are missing that certain something.
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Great report JB. Maybe one question to ask them if you get them in a talkative mood again is how long they cook their spiced gravy for. Seems to be a lot of divergence between the Glasgow approach (4hrs) and many other BIR-authentic recipes and this must be one factor which has a major bearing on flavours achieved. H4C's yet-to-be documented magic paste also looks to me like something which has been given quite a serious cooking, so I'm wondering if there are familiar BIR flavours which can only be developed by cooking the spices for long enough.
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this made me realize that maybe my curries are missing that certain something.
I don't need a sample to know my curries are missing that certain something (the missing 5%), it's always been the case and I honestly don't hold out much hope of Chris's magic paste changing that. So have you made one of your standard curries with the base sample?
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I wanted the Chris Book so much
I would have bought it half finished, quarter finished or whatever (I still would, as long as it gave the missing base ingredient)
I don't think it will ever come out
And I am really saddened, by that thought
Something is wrong, somewhere along the line
It would be out by now
It's a pdf so he could give any added info, with a new emailed pdf, like Alex Wilkie did
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I wanted the Chris Book so much. I don't think it will ever come out.
Someone who frequents The Other Place should ask him for a status update. I can't, I'm afraid; I'm persona non grata there, as far as I can ascertain.
** Phil.
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Phil
I'm not a member of the other site but you can still see the h4c thread. Somebody asked him Friday about a possible release date and his reply was "not yet"
W
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I plan to cook a bog standard madras with my new gravy sample,alongside a madras using my own(Little India) gravy.I don't think my madras will come even near I hope I'm proved wrong though.There's just something about the other gravy that has that genuine BIR taste and aroma.I don't think it was just the case that the onions were cooked for a long time,there is something more going on here.From what I understand Chris has enlisted some help in writing his book so hopefully it will arrive sooner rather than later.It's just a shame the information he gleaned from Sam wasn't given to someone on here who was more keen to share it with others.
It's strange that the only other sample of a genuine base gravy I got from a local BIR was in fact nearly identical to my own one.I thought it was the end of my base gravy quest but after this new sample I have my doubts,it's like a I've taken a step back.I'm beginning to doubt whether my first sample was,in fact the fineshed gravy but was ready to have that special 'something' added.Indeed I'm also wondering whether the Little India video showed the full story.All sounding a bit like a conspiracy theory I know but this new gravy has really got me going.
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Hi JB. I wasn't thinking of the onions specifically, it seems more likely there's something about the way I which the spices need to be cooked that develops "the taste". I've heard people describe it as "caramelising" the spices in the past, but I think that's a bad choice of words as I don't think spices have natural sugars which can be caramelised in the way that onions and tomatoes do. I do though think that boiling spices in the base (as many base recipes do) develops different flavours to frying, and that slowly frying spices for long enough as part of the base recipe (without burning) could be the key to the magic aroma you've been describing. I think this is one of the key skills of the better BIR chefs and has tended to die out as the pressure to speed up processes in the kitchen has increased over the years. Mind you, we've all had our share of crackpot theories on this forum over the years huh?
My last encounter with "that smell" was in a takeaway from Monihar Tandoori in Burnham, Bucks. In their Bombay aloo were onions, bay leaves (European) and cinnamon (not cassia) that were loaded with "that smell". You could see from their dark, sodden appearance that they'd been cooked within an inch of their life. Not burned, just soggy in the way that ingredients become when cooked for a long time so the structure breaks down. I'm convinced it comes about from the way the spices are precooked because when I cook bay leaves as part of precooked chicken or pilau rice, the leaves are still strong and stiff and green in colour at the end, not soft and floppy and dark like those from my Monihar Bombay aloo.
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I do though think that boiling spices in the base (as many base recipes do) develops different flavours to frying, and that slowly frying spices for long enough as part of the base recipe (without burning) could be the key to the magic aroma you've been describing.
I think you may well have something there, NJ. Ever since JB posted his report I have been mulling over (no pun intended) the idea of adding whole spices to an otherwise simple base, but your comment (above) has suggested to me that bhooning those whole spices may also be an essential pre-requisite. I shall report back when I have had time to investigate.
** Phil.
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I'm not a member of the other site but you can still see the h4c thread. Somebody asked him Friday about a possible release date and his reply was "not yet"
Ah yes, I now see to what you refer, Whandsy. But who is "Chargrill" ?
Re: H4ppy-Chris' upcoming ebook - "Unlocking the Taste"
Postby chargrill
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It was me who asked H4ppy chris if his book would be out soon, his help was "not yet mate" so I asked if it would be out in the next week, month, 3 months etc and he never replied, I do not know who Chargrill is, I can only suppose he is writing with/for him. I do not think we will see this book any time soon, if at all. He first said ebook coming soon in January 2013!!!
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Good work Jason. Which restaurant we talking about? How did your curry turn out with the base? And more importantly, what do you think the chances are of getting in the kitchen and getting a lesson? ;D
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From the other site..
Re: H4ppy-Chris' upcoming ebook - "Unlocking the Taste"
Postby h4ppy-chris ? Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:31 pm
UPDATE!
As you know Steve a.k.a (chargrill) is writing the E-book for me. I could not let him do this without him (trying the goods) so to speak. So today we have spent the afternoon together cooking in my kitchen, on my hob. To me if Steve is going to write the book, he has to be-leave/trust in wot he is going to write about.
All i will say it was a good day and Steve is defo going to be writing the book.
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Good work Jason. Which restaurant we talking about? How did your curry turn out with the base? And more importantly, what do you think the chances are of getting in the kitchen and getting a lesson? ;D
Hi Dave,haven't cooked with the new base yet but I'll let you know how it goes when I do.It's from the Korai restaurant in Hornchurch,not far from a bar where I occasionally do a bit of DJ'ing which is how I ended up in there.I should have just asked the Manager really about a lesson,even if it was just the chef cooking his gravy.Honestly,I'd pay a lot of money to see him do that it impressed me so much.I'll have to go back,he was such a nice bloke,him and his chef thought my curry skills were fascinating.
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I'll let you work on that one jb. If you can get us in the kitchen just to watch the base, that would be great. Sounds as though the chef was impressed with your efforts and curiosity and could be sympathetic to our cause - let's hope so anyway. Last time I was in Hornchurch I dined in the Akash. Quality was far removed from when i first tried it back in the very early 80's when it was one of the few Indians in the area. I'll make a note of that one if i'm out that way :P
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Hey Jason
why not cook your best curry and take it in there on a quiet night and ask if they will give you their opinion, and then move on for tips on how to improve :D