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Curry Base Recipes => Curry Sauce, Curry Base , Curry Gravy Recipes, Secret Curry Base => Topic started by: jb on July 23, 2014, 08:36 PM

Title: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on July 23, 2014, 08:36 PM
Here is the base gravy recipe I was recently shown by the chef on my recent takeaway lesson.I have been assured that it EXACTLY how the base gravy is prepared for a night's service,just on a smaller scale.As you can see it is quite similar to other recipes,there are no 'magic' pastes or ingredients.I cooked it in the takeaway kitchen so it should be able to be done in a domestic kitchen.Once it was cooked,I tasted it and compared it to the chef's gravy he had on the go.....It was virtually identical.Indeed although it's similar to other gravies it had a special something that I've not been able to manage before.The chef impressed the point that the onions MUST be cooked until they've virtually melted...that's the key to it's success.

3 kilo white onions(any sort,they chop them so it cooks quicker and it doesn't affect the taste)
1 green pepper/1 red pepper
small bunch corriander stalks
1 small carrot
2 chefs spoon plain veg oil
2 chefs spoon blended plum tomatoes
1 chef spoon ginger garlic
1/2 chef spoon salt
1/2 chef spoon turmeric
1/4 block coconut block

cover with water,put a lid on and then boil on a high heat for two hours until the onions are melting.


Then add 1/4 chef spoon turmeric,tiny amount of chilli powder,1/4 chef spoon cumin powder,1/4 chef spoon corriander powder,1 chef spoon  blended tomatoes.Re-cover and then turn the flame down(so the bottom doesn't catch )and cook for another half an hour,then blend until smooth.

The chef then explained that in the takeaway they leave the gravy like this(it's quite thick) and then add water to thin when they need it.It should be very thin,like watery soup.However when it hits the hot pan it will thicken.Finally take another pan,add a chef's spoon of oil and add a very finely chopped garlic clove and brown it.Tip this into the gravy(rinse the garlic pan out with a spoon of gravy).This seemed to give the gravy a fantastic smokey like flavour.Simmer the sauce for about half an hour and the oil should begin to rise.

So,nothing unusual and certainly no magic paste nonsense.Next time I go to visit the takeaway I will try and go when the chef is making a full size base gravy.Like I said though the gravy I made was a near perfect match to what he was using.



Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: noble ox on July 23, 2014, 08:49 PM
Thanks for sharing jb
Technique and skills rule.... lets hope this kills the magic secret potion followers  etc
Interesting about the extra garlic method looking forward to making this soon
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on July 23, 2014, 08:52 PM
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/120bcdfecbe7eb13a464854bacc6eba3.JPG)

Watered down gravy with added garlic tarka

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/5837f8e2b07e73858110451cf4c52851.JPG)

Undiluted thick gravy without garlic.

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/21e90c34909b1abe24ddb4c1d81b380c.JPG)

chicken tikka masala and plain chicken curry using my gravy and masala paste....They had the smell and the taste!!

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/a0498937757733030e834a85553d8bdd.JPG)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Zap on July 23, 2014, 09:30 PM
Wow, those dishes look excellent!!  Thanks for posting the recipe for the base.  Looking forward to the paste (and the recipes/cook process for those dishes?).

I have a couple of revelations that following this topic has brought.  Maybe they are meaningless, but I think your comments about the base being similar to others ingredient-wise but producing very different results has maybe hit the nail on the head as to the elephant in the room.

It would be very interesting to know just how much additional water is added after finishing the cook process.  The water:base ratio and specifics of the cooking process regarding the onions may play a part in CREATING the flavor (as Chris used to say).  A number of gravies I have made look like the undiluted version above, but I've never substantially diluted them!  I seriously wonder if the dilution plus the cooking process produces some of the flavor which doesn't occur when too much base is present.  Said another way, the added water allows the gravy to cook longer in the pan, the additional reduction and caramelization producing some of the smell and finished dish flavor from the extended cooking and mellowing of the spices. 

Additionally, the finished dish, since the gravy is diluted, will end up having less base as a percentage of its content than if used undiluted in the same measurements, and a number of things I've learned in cooking is that sometimes less is more.  The spices and individual dish components will shine through more since there is less overall onion/base as a percentage of the dish.  That could be part of what makes these takeaway dishes taste differently than many cooked at home is a lack of proportionality that muddies the waters too much.

Do some places use a bhagar?  Absolutely.  Does it make or break a BIR curry - No.  Does it get certain folks closer to THEIR ideal taste?  Yes.  It should be possible to make a curry with the "magic" regardless of what set of restaurant items are being used.  And I think there are still techniques being unearthed which will eventually result in this being possible across a large span of base/mix powder/recipes!
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on July 23, 2014, 10:11 PM
jb what do you estimate the 'chef spoons' are in tablespoon or teaspoon measures?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on July 23, 2014, 10:42 PM
Thank you jb for this recipe.
What you say about the cooking onions correctly strikes well with me as I was also able to obtain that flavour aftertaste/Burp from Mr Sing's Glasgow base, he also suggests the flavour is in the onions.
Looking towards to more of your tips.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: rshome123 on July 23, 2014, 11:16 PM
Thanks JB, it's very good of you to post.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: JerryM on July 24, 2014, 08:18 AM
jb,

fantastic post. clearly top notch BIR.

the garlic idea is the Zaal method used at dish fry. doing it at base time is really cute idea and had not thought of myself.

well pleased for you.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on July 24, 2014, 10:15 AM
jb what do you estimate the 'chef spoons' are in tablespoon or teaspoon measures?

I had a good look at the spoons the chefs were using(wife thinks I'm a a saddo and should get out more by the way!)

I would say they were equal to 4 tablespoons.Having said that the chef kept saying it's not an exact science,these guys are experts and can do things mostly by eye.I will try and get back in the kitchen asap,I'm welcome anytime.Hopefully I can share some more tips and info....no ebook here!!
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: chewytikka on July 24, 2014, 01:29 PM
Really good fun JB, did you hang around and get offered any Iftar goodies.

Was this better for you than the Zaal visit, i.e. a one to one tutorial with these cooks.

Just to back up your report about adding a Garlic tarka, which is old school BTW and not a lot of my locals do anymore.
I took a phone pic of a 30lt restaurant base last night, you can see the sliced garlic floating on top of the oil, before the base was blended.

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/0266d84e94fdec07881a0d0dec579ffe.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#0266d84e94fdec07881a0d0dec579ffe.jpg)

Although you say only one clove of Garlic, sliced and fried (Tarka) to finish,
even in a 3kilo base I would use at least 5 cloves of Garlic to get the flavour into it.

Anyhoo, what level would you rate this TA's curries and have you tried any of their speciality dishes.

Good Post ;)
cheers Chewy
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on July 24, 2014, 03:19 PM
Great photo you snapped there Chewy 8)
The Tarka we are talking about is I am guessing the same one we use to infuse the flavour for our  Tarka Dal sizzle.
I believe Chewy is right about the amount here as I use a lot of garlic to sizzle my Tarka Dal giving me a great deep moorish garlic flavour.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on July 24, 2014, 03:48 PM
Really good fun JB, did you hang around and get offered any Iftar goodies.

Was this better for you than the Zaal visit, i.e. a one to one tutorial with these cooks.

Just to back up your report about adding a Garlic tarka, which is old school BTW and not a lot of my locals do anymore.
I took a phone pic of a 30lt restaurant base last night, you can see the sliced garlic floating on top of the oil, before the base was blended.

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/0266d84e94fdec07881a0d0dec579ffe.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#0266d84e94fdec07881a0d0dec579ffe.jpg)

Although you say only one clove of Garlic, sliced and fried (Tarka) to finish,
even in a 3kilo base I would use at least 5 cloves of Garlic to get the flavour into it.

Anyhoo, what level would you rate this TA's curries and have you tried any of their speciality dishes.

Good Post ;)
cheers Chewy

Hi Chewy,I got to take home the chicken curry and tikka massala I cooked,as well as the paste and gravy I made.They gave me some pliau rice and also knocked me up a peshwari naan.At one point I was chatting about all things tandoori and the chef was to trying to get ME to make the peshwari naan...I thought I'd better leave it to the expert.

Not sure about 5 cloves of garlic,just even adding one has given the base an extraordinary flavour,never seen this done before by the way.I've had a few curries in there,very nice indeed.I have my eye on a few specialities and I'll try and get a demo on how they are done.Was it better than the Zaal??  Yes although the Zaal experience was good I had the opportunity to watch the Chefs cook the curries as the orders were coming in.They thought it was highly amusing that I was in their kitchen cooking a base gravy.As the Manager pointed out,before the recession they used to hold quite a few(home style) lessons,but this was the first time he'd been asked about base gravies/massla paste etc...He was very impressed and said he couldn't wait to pass on his knowledge to someone!!
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on July 24, 2014, 04:52 PM
Not sure about 5 cloves of garlic,just even adding one has given the base an extraordinary flavour,never seen this done before by the way.

Me neither jb. I've added garlic as a tarka to curries and obviously to daal but adding it at the base stage would never have occured to me. I wouldn't have thought such a small quantity would make that much difference and like CT would have opted for more. I can't wait to try it now but I've got a freezer full of base so it'll have to wait a while. It's all great info though so keep it coming...and passing on making the Pehwari naan..ya wuss!  ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: fried on July 24, 2014, 04:55 PM
Since I wrecked my last base by letting it catch on the bottom (and then accidentally scraping it off) :(, I'll give this a go when I'm back from holiday. i like the garlic tarka idea. What does the coconut block add to the base? it's something I've never used, seems popular in some regions.

Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: noble ox on July 24, 2014, 05:53 PM
I made this base this morning it reminded me of the Glasgow base to begin with, when finished it was a huge step up the league...very Bir I will knock up a vindaloo later using  it and report the result
So far the best base I have made .....got my tail -wagging  ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Zap on July 24, 2014, 06:13 PM
I made this base this morning it reminded me of the Glasgow base to begin with, when finished it was a huge step up the league...very Bir I will knock up a vindaloo later using  it and report the result
So far the best base I have made .....got my tail -wagging  ;D

This is incredibly encouraging - I was going to make another base as an experiment, but I think I'm being sold here to also try this.  I had a lot of success with the Glasgow base, and then an improvement with a clone-base.

Jb, questions for you - can you post the recipe to make the Chicken Curry?  I'd like to have a dish that pairs with this base to use as a first test and I'm not sure if I'll get around to making the massala paste quite so soon.  Also, did you get any hints at their mix powder, or maybe have a suggestion for which one might be closest for the time being?  I'm almost out of my present batch, so I'm trying to decide what I should be making!

Thanks again for your generous sharing of all this excellent information!
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: emin-j on July 24, 2014, 06:23 PM
Well done jb excellent job  ;)
So what can we learn from this new base ? Have we been under cooking the onions for all this time  ::)
The Glasgow base talks about the onions turning 'milky' and I must admit I did get good results from this base.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on July 24, 2014, 06:41 PM
Well done jb excellent job  ;)
So what can we learn from this new base ? Have we been under cooking the onions for all this time  ::)
The Glasgow base talks about the onions turning 'milky' and I must admit I did get good results from this base.

It's definitely one of the 'secrets' but we've known about long cooking to bring out the natural sweetness and flavour of the onions for some time now. Savoury curries don't have sugar added (if you're doing it right) because that comes naturally from a properly cooked base.

In fact one of the other forums has a 'melting base' along these lines which goes back a good few years now.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Zap on July 24, 2014, 06:51 PM
I think that one of the biggest flaws in some of the previous reporting of TA/Restaurant recipes is using time as a metric for cooking.

A home range will NOT achieve the same results in the same time as a restaurant.  Now, if the recipe is substantially scaled it might be possible to get somewhat close.  But just like cooking anything to temperature instead of time, I think relying on the tastes and visual clues is bringing us closer to results that are the same as the TA.  Eventually it is possible to standardize the recipe back to time-based format with enough experience in a new environment (different range, different pot, different size, etc.).
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: fried on July 24, 2014, 06:53 PM
Weren't some folks laughing about the 'melting base' fairly recently?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on July 24, 2014, 06:57 PM
Weren't some folks laughing about the 'melting base' fairly recently?

The concept's fine, I think it's the melting bit that provoked derision.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: fried on July 24, 2014, 07:03 PM
I know what you mean, the whole 'melting' concept along with 'milky' is really subjective. I was trying to teach my bro in law a bit of Indian trad cooking from a recipe that mentioned 'melting' onions and he didn't get it at all!
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: GulfExpat on July 24, 2014, 08:28 PM
Many thanks for sharing this, JB :D

Do you mean white or yellow/brown onions?





Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: haldi on July 24, 2014, 08:46 PM
Thanks so much JB
Once again you have come up with something new!

Sorry if I'm repeating things, but have you posted the basic curry recipe?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: ELW on July 25, 2014, 10:49 PM
Nice one thanks for posting this jb



Weren't some folks laughing about the 'melting base' fairly recently?

Yes they were but only on this forum, quite a few were 'rofl' about the glasgow base(whatever that is).
Try the recipes to spec, see how they compare to your local. That's all you can do


Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: noble ox on July 26, 2014, 01:07 PM
I knocked up a Vindaloo using this base and was quite impressed with the result Bir aromas in the kitchen
lured the nextdoors around for a sample I and they were delighted ;D
Anyone else tried it?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: haldi on July 26, 2014, 01:26 PM

Hi JB
I expect you are busy in your kitchen now
I don't know if you can get back to me in time, but here goes
I made the base and I thought it was pretty much like many I have done before
That was BEFORE I added the tarka and reboiled
That really transformed it
This tastes genuine
It's got that extra flavour
Thank you

It's very similar to my friend Ali's takeaway gravy
I've had countless conversations about it and even watched him cook most of it
But I could never get close enough to the flavour for my satisfaction

But have you got that Basic Curry recipe to go with this?
I'd like to try this tonight
I don't want to cook the Tikka Masala one at the moment

If you can't get back in time, don't worry
I'll freeze it

I want to cook a recipe that goes with the gravy
I don't want to ruin what seems so promising

and thanks again
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: haldi on July 26, 2014, 01:56 PM
JB
I just tried the base again
It's spot on
The missing flavour is there
I never thought I would ever achieve this
Thank you!
I've tried loads of base recipes with garlic & ginger, spice mix and tomato pur?e.
But garlic on it's own and then boiled, is it
Anybody else agree on this one?

Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Donald Brasco on July 26, 2014, 02:23 PM
Can you elaborate on how the garlic is cooked? You said it's finely chopped then fried till brown, Are we talking a subtle pale brown with care taken to avoid burning, or are we talking about a healthy semi-charred dark brown with associated bitter flavour.?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: curryhell on July 26, 2014, 02:24 PM
JB
I just tried the base again
It's spot on
The missing flavour is there
I never thought I would ever achieve this
Thank you!

Fantastic!!!  So glad you've got what you've been searching for for so long Haldi.

Great posts JB
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on July 26, 2014, 04:51 PM
I made the base and I thought it was pretty much like many I have done before
That was BEFORE I added the tarka and reboiled
That really transformed it
This tastes genuine
It's got that extra flavour

I'm having great difficulty believing that this simple tarka is really the final 5%. But then again I haven't tried it yet. And why has no-one else ever seen BIRs do this - crafty devils!  ;D

The thought occurs to me that it may be possible, as I have a freezer full of base already, to just add the garlic tarka to some reheated base and then blend. Would it really be that different? Suppose there's one way to find out.

And jb, as others also have asked, to what degree is the garlic fried?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: noble ox on July 26, 2014, 06:10 PM
This I believe is important for this base quote chef
chef impressed the point that the onions MUST be cooked until they've virtually melted
The tarka garlic adds the extra wow taste and seems to work in conjunction with the proper cooked onions
I hope jb agrees with this ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: haldi on July 26, 2014, 06:17 PM

I'm having great difficulty believing that this simple tarka is really the final 5%. But then again I haven't tried it yet. And why has no-one else ever seen BIRs do this - crafty devils!  ;D
And jb, as others also have asked, to what degree is the garlic fried?
I think it's the combination of a really good base recipe combining with the tarka
The base now has a flavour that is really yummy and I haven't a clue what it is
It's got a real zing about it and also BIR aroma

I fried the garlic in the required amount of oil, on a low temperature,until it took on some colour

Who else has tried this?
If you fry on low you can be extra careful to not burn the garlic
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 26, 2014, 07:41 PM
Evening all, after a weeks holiday what a pleasant surprise to return to find jb has been in the TA kitchen. I do like the look of this base , simple enough to work with many main recipes, similar in components to others but with a little twist at the end.
 Onions cooked until melting/milky call it what you like, I find are a key element to producing the taste, Im not sure about the quick boil rather than a slower longer cook for the onions to develop into the sweet BIR flavour though but I will be trying this method.
 I defrosted a base earlier, a Taz/KD hybrid, and fried a small finely chopped garlic clove in some oil until brown and maybe slightly crisping and added it to the gently simmering base, Instantly hit with a wonderful aroma and tasting it a wonderful flavour. Maybe a little too much for 400ml of base . The curry I then made definitely had a little something extra, I was impressed .
 I shall and cant wait to make this to spec, once we find out the small details, ie the garlic tarka cook and colour.

 Well done jb and thanks for sharing, excellent post
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: JerryM on July 27, 2014, 10:28 AM
will be very good to get jb's take on the cooking of the garlic. i'd taken is as same as Zaal ie golden but tinged with darkness - ie the famous words there's burn and there's the right moment

could not find cro link hence youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY6DCPICKas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY6DCPICKas)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: noble ox on July 27, 2014, 10:55 AM
The "Goldilocks" moment  ;)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 27, 2014, 11:33 AM
The "Goldilocks" moment  ;)

Haha  :D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: emin-j on July 27, 2014, 04:05 PM
I made the base and I thought it was pretty much like many I have done before
That was BEFORE I added the tarka and reboiled
That really transformed it
This tastes genuine
It's got that extra flavour

I'm having great difficulty believing that this simple tarka is really the final 5%. But then again I haven't tried it yet. And why has no-one else ever seen BIRs do this - crafty devils!  ;D

The thought occurs to me that it may be possible, as I have a freezer full of base already, to just add the garlic tarka to some reheated base and then blend. Would it really be that different? Suppose there's one way to find out.

And jb, as others also have asked, to what degree is the garlic fried?

SS it is only a 5% we have been missing, fingers crossed this could be it  ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on July 27, 2014, 10:35 PM
Hi guys,sorry went away for the weekend.Well,this is looking good.I really hope this is going to give us that last bit we've all been chasing.Haldi if you think you've finally cracked it I'm so pleased for you,I know how frustrating it's been for you.

It seems such a simple thing to do and it's strange that no-one has come accross this garlic thing before.I have to say when I portioned it up for the freezer the taste of the base was terrific,it had that special something that I've never had before in a base.Like I said I cooked it myself,no special ingredients or magical pastes,and certainly no flames or flambe.The garlic was quite bown(but not burnt).
He tipped the garlic/oil in the gravy,spooned a ladel of gravy back into the garlic pan to get all the residue out and then emptied it back into the gravy pot.The most important thing is to cook the onions fully and then re boil the base after the garlic is added.

I asked him about his mix powder and he showed me the usual selection of powders...cumin,turmeric etc.He seemed a bit dismissive of the importance of mix powder really,any decent one will do he says.I actually had my notebook full of my Zall lesson.He looked at the mix powder from there and said that one will do.

The chicken curry was quite simple.A ladle of oil/veg ghee from the tin on the stove.I then added ginger/garlic,salt,mix powder,tomato paste.Cooked that out,added some base and the chicken.It was then cooked for about two minutes on a fairly high bubbling heat.He didn't add any methi by the way.Very simple,and quite important to me,very few ingredients,no pastes or anything so the base was the main thing that went in so it had to be good.PS forgot to mention a little bit of the spiced oil from the top of the gravy was added towards the end of the curry.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: haldi on July 28, 2014, 08:14 AM
.Haldi if you think you've finally cracked it I'm so pleased for you,I know how frustrating it's been for you.

The garlic was quite brown(but not burnt).
He tipped the garlic/oil in the gravy,spooned a ladel of gravy back into the garlic pan to get all the residue out and then emptied it back into the gravy pot.The most important thing is to cook the onions fully and then re boil the base after the garlic is added.
The chicken curry was quite simple.A ladle of oil/veg ghee from the tin on the stove.I then added ginger/garlic,salt,mix powder,tomato paste.Cooked that out,added some base and the chicken.It was then cooked for about two minutes on a fairly high bubbling heat.He didn't add any methi by the way.Very simple,and quite important to me,very few ingredients,no pastes or anything so the base was the main thing that went in so it had to be good.
this is a perfect copy of the base of at least two places I have had samples from.
It has that a bright yummy indescribable flavour, which I guess is the boiled fried garlic

so now it's a question of cooking the curry from that
I can't do anything until the weekend

For me this demonstrates the importance of the tarka
I had a demo about three years back with curry gravy being made, and when the chef got to the tarka bit, he paused and asked for extra assurance from the owner before he continued the demo
So this method was considered a secret of some sort
At my demo the tarka was garlic ginger,spice and tomato puree
I tried it at home and it just didn't work the same
JB's simpler version does the trick perfectly
Perhaps it was garlic puree at my demo rather than garlic/ginger
I'll never know, but I don't need to now
What I do know is that I was given a carton of my demo gravy and it had that wonderful taste, that JB's gravy has too
The garlic tarka idea is reinforced by Chewy's post/picture
I cooked my finely chopped garlic to a nut brown colour, on a low gas, and I rinsed out the pan with gravy as JB described
I don't know if using gravy to clean the pan is important, but who knows?

I would guess that a madras recipe would be like the basic curry but extra chilli powder,lemon juice and fenugreek.
Is there any way you could find out, JB?

Has anyone else tried this base yet?




Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 28, 2014, 08:29 AM
Cheers Jb, really excited about making this base, hopefully I will be able to get in the kitchen tonight.
Great result Haldi, I'm so pleased you got the desired flavour you was after.
 My little experiment of adding the garlic tarka to the base I already had produced a far superior base, it took it up a level.
 I shall report back after I get to make it
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on July 28, 2014, 08:41 AM
It's sounding promising guys,I'm glad I've helped let's hope this really is the answer.As regards to rinsing the garlic pan,I think it may have some importance.The pan was still quite hot when the contents were originally tipped out and when he rinsed the pan there was an almighty sizzle and he immeditely put this back in the curry pan.

I'm guessing you can make a madras that way Haldi,however the chef told me that he makes his own chilli sauce that he adds to madras/vindaloo/phal etc.It was on the side next to the stove in a tub.Next time I go in there I'll get a demo as well as asking about his home made balti paste.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 28, 2014, 08:46 AM
As regards to rinsing the garlic pan,I think it may have some importance.The pan was still quite hot when the contents were originally tipped out and when he rinsed the pan there was an almighty sizzle and he immeditely put this back in the curry pan.

 the chef told me that he makes his own chilli sauce that he adds to madras/vindaloo/phal etc.It was on the side next to the stove in a tub.
Jb thats exactly what happened when I rinsed the garlic pan , the sizzle, giving a wonderful aroma.

The chilli sauce-was it green and look like blended chillis or did it look like it contained any spicing?

And finally What was the garlic/ginger ratio for the base?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on July 28, 2014, 08:58 AM
As regards to rinsing the garlic pan,I think it may have some importance.The pan was still quite hot when the contents were originally tipped out and when he rinsed the pan there was an almighty sizzle and he immeditely put this back in the curry pan.

 the chef told me that he makes his own chilli sauce that he adds to madras/vindaloo/phal etc.It was on the side next to the stove in a tub.
Jb thats exactly what happened when I rinsed the garlic pan , the sizzle, giving a wonderful aroma.

The chilli sauce-was it green and look like blended chillis or did it look like it contained any spicing?

Yep the sizzle gives off a lovely aroma.The chilli sauce was red,not green.No idea what went in it,apart from fresh red chilli.Don't worry as soon as I find out all will be revealed.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on July 28, 2014, 09:08 AM
Apart from the garlic tarka and onion cooking time,the Manager told me it's SO important than the base is re-cooked for some time after it's been originally blended /thinned and the garlic added.He said the base couldn't be used if this wasn't done,it wouldn't taste right.When I originally approached him about lessons and gravy in particular,he said they cook their base twice and I wondered what he was talking about,so it's something they definetely do.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 28, 2014, 09:13 AM
Cheers Jb , interesting about the chilli sauce been red, they only sell green chillis in my Indian shop, wonder what type of chilli they use.

In the base am I reading right that turmeric and tomato are added at the first stage(2 hours cook) and the second stage(1/2 hour cook) also?

Sorry I updated my last message at same time as you posted so you may have missed the question, what was the garlic/ginger ratio?

I have had better results from re-cooking a base, I normally de-frost then re-cook for about an hour and the flavour definitely improves, wonder how long it could be re-cooked for before it hasnt improved anymore?



Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on July 28, 2014, 09:26 AM
Very positive feed back coming along on this topic jb :)
I have find adding a Tarka improves with time in a precook, by freezing or being kept on a stove top, would you agree with this jb ?
When I add a garlic Tarka or Sizzle to Tarka dal it is not so evident at the time, but after I defrost a portion it is wonderful and deep in the rich garlic flavour and aroma.
I am assuming this will be the same process happening here, Also very much looking forwards to making this on my next base gravy day.

Still LOL at the Goldilocks Moment Noble Ox  ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on July 28, 2014, 11:57 AM
Maybe we should have listened to Bruce Edwards.

Quote
THE TARKA
A tarka is simply something that is fried and added to something else. It is usual for a tarka of tomato puree to be added to curry gravy, which is watered down at the same time. Some restaurants seem to water heavily, resulting in thin sauces. I find that 1 part of water to 3 parts of curry gravy gives good results. If you have made 4 litres, put 1 litre aside (you could freeze it for future use) and the remaining 3 litres in another vessel. Heat a minimum of a quarter of a pint of oil in the cooking pot. Add a level tablespoon of tomato puree, stirring until it has completely broken up and the oil is red. Now add the 3 litres of curry gravy and 1 litre of hot water. Stir well, bring to the boil and simmer until oil begins to rise to the surface. The sauce will turn a slightly darker colour. Don't keep stirring at this stage. the oil wont separate if you do. Use at once, or remove from the cooker and stand in cold water.
Once cool, it will keep in the fridge for about a week. The tarka isn?t essential, but it does improve the flavour and appearance of a curry. More oil than the quarter pint I have specified will make the curry gravy look more attractive, but serves no other useful purpose.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on July 28, 2014, 12:00 PM
jb what oil are they using for the garklic tarka fry?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on July 28, 2014, 12:40 PM
It was just a Chef's spoon of ginger/garlic added initially.You are correct turmeric and tomatoes were added twice.There was a reason for this(I asked the Manager) but for the life of me I can't remember what he said,I'll ask next time.He used plain veg oil for the garlic.It must be cooked properly though,brown but not burnt.My gravy did look different to che Chef's one,more oily on top.He did say mine could be used straight away,but if mine was left for long enough on a stove top it would improve and the oil would rise.

I must have asked him about half a dozen times whether this really was the way the gravy was cooked in the take-away.He was adamant it was I truly beleived him,and the result seemed to confirm this.He seemed so keen to pass on his knowledge it was unbelievable.Can't wait to get back.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Wickerman on July 28, 2014, 12:45 PM
Wasn't h4ppy Chris banging on about adding an elusive final secret ingredient to the final base/curry?
But joking aside, thank you for unselfishly passing on your newly acquired knowledge.
Exciting times
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 28, 2014, 01:04 PM
Hi Jb sorry to pester, but was the garlic/ginger 50:50 ratio
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on July 28, 2014, 01:18 PM
Hi Jb sorry to pester, but was the garlic/ginger 50:50 ratio

Not pestering at all...ask away!!  Yes 50/50...asked the Manager specifically about this one,it was blended with a little water and oil.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Yousef on July 28, 2014, 01:39 PM
Thanks for sharing JB, i am definitely going to try this one to rekindle the BIR passion.

Cheers
Stew
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 28, 2014, 02:20 PM
Cheers Jb , just stocked up from Indian shop and looking forward to cooking tonight !

Stew, it's great when something rekindles your passion for bir, I got mine back a couple of months ago while doing a little base experimentation and thought had cracked it, but I hadn't ! But it give me my mojo back
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on July 28, 2014, 04:05 PM
OK I just tried this with some base I already had. Fried the finely chopped garlic until well browned but definitely not burnt, added to the now watered down base and boiled away until a good bit of oil had collected on the surface.

Made a madras as that's where I can most easily tell if there's any benefit from a particular change. So for me (and remember this is with my base, not jb's) it wasn't a Eureka moment. Yes it adds a smokey, garlicky flavour (well what else would it do!) and I will definitely be using it as I think it adds positively to the overall flavour but it isn't the flavour that's missing for me.

And I added a whole clove to a single portion of base...I struggle to see how the small amount suggested would have any effect?

Hopefully when I get around to making the proper base there will be a more marked or different effect but based on this test I'm not too hopeful.

Is the base meant to be blended again after adding the garlic tarka?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: haldi on July 28, 2014, 07:36 PM
Yes it adds a smokey, garlicky flavour  but it isn't the flavour that's missing for me.
Sorry it didn't work
This could mean either your base was dissimilar to JB's
or
We are chasing different flavours

There is also one other possibility, and that might be the onions I used
They were a white dutch onions called Vos Onions BV, a 4 kg bag bought from an Asian shop
They were really strong
They made my eyes water as I peeled 3 kg of them
I really wouldn't have expected the result I got
I thought I had just made another "standard home made" curry gravy
I was gobsmacked at the result
I honestly believe the flavour I achieved is what JB's takeaway works with

Bruce Edwards curry gravy is not accurate
He's got tomato puree in the tarka, like Kris Dhillon's base has too
I'd love to hear any one else's experience of this gravy
Perhaps mine is just a fluke
Even if it is, I've got loads frozen!!
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 28, 2014, 07:59 PM
Haldi, I am making this tonight , after adding the garlic tarka to one of my bases and the results I got I have very high expectations for this base, I really hope I get your results, even if yours was a fluke ;) did you add spices etc in chef spoon amounts or in tablespoon amounts as chef spoons do differ, was they level, rounded or heaped?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: noble ox on July 28, 2014, 08:13 PM
Hi Haldi :D
As posted earlier I made this to spec and it was the best Base I have made tried  loads over the years starting with kd1
Getting the onions to a liquid state is the way forward the added garlic tarka completes the base after simmering again
Bir 100% yahoo :D

Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 28, 2014, 09:08 PM
Excellent results noble ox, unfortunately due to unforeseen circumstances I cannot make the base tonight  :'(
But will get the opportunity late tomorrow afternoon.

The onions I got today from the Asian Store were english, tennis ball sized and cost £2 for 4kg, they are normally dutch, and I never checked before I bought .

What onions were used Jb?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on July 28, 2014, 10:21 PM
OK I just tried this with some base I already had. Fried the finely chopped garlic until well browned but definitely not burnt, added to the now watered down base and boiled away until a good bit of oil had collected on the surface.

Made a madras as that's where I can most easily tell if there's any benefit from a particular change. So for me (and remember this is with my base, not jb's) it wasn't a Eureka moment. Yes it adds a smokey, garlicky flavour (well what else would it do!) and I will definitely be using it as I think it adds positively to the overall flavour but it isn't the flavour that's missing for me.

And I added a whole clove to a single portion of base...I struggle to see how the small amount suggested would have any effect?

Hopefully when I get around to making the proper base there will be a more marked or different effect but based on this test I'm not too hopeful.

Is the base meant to be blended again after adding the garlic tarka?
 

No not meant to be blended again,the garlic should be quite fine,I'm just wondering what base you used?? Did your base involve literally boiling the onions hard until they've basically melted? They have to be cooked for at least two hours on a high heat,spices added,cooked again on a low heat,garlic added and then cooked again.The chef obviously does these for a reason or he would just throw the lot in at the start.

The onions were medium sized white ones,all in big sacks like you see in the asian shops.I chopped them myself,they weren't that strong to be honest.I can't see any BIR chasing around finding expensive onions,I think cheaper the better as far as they are concerned.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on July 29, 2014, 12:08 AM

Getting the onions to a liquid state is the way forward

Couldn't agree more, boiled on high heat in a BIR for two hours = boiled on high heat for longer at home until milky and melted  :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Donald Brasco on July 29, 2014, 06:36 AM
Why would you have to boil for longer at home than the takeaway does? Boiling is boiling isn't it, wherever it happens
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: haldi on July 29, 2014, 08:01 AM
Haldi did you add spices etc in chef spoon amounts or in tablespoon amounts as chef spoons do differ, was they level, rounded or heaped?
I take a chef spoon as 4 level desert spoons

Really glad that Noble Ox got a good result too

Can't wait to try a curry with this, but I've got to
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: noble ox on July 29, 2014, 08:16 AM


Couldn't agree more, boiled on high heat in a BIR for two hours = boiled on high heat for longer at home until milky and melted  :)

Good to see some of you are getting to " know your onions" ;)



Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Whandsy on July 29, 2014, 09:19 AM
Brilliant to see a breakthrough into the final 5% at last and am chuffed to bits for haldi and noble ox. Do we yet have a measurement for the mixed powder amount in a final curry as I've made curries with differing amounts depending on whose base it is.

Top thread jb, gonna have to have a crack at this when I'm back in blighty, but for now the sunbed beckons lol!

W
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 29, 2014, 01:45 PM
Base on the go as I speak, been boiling for 1/2 hour and is smelling good, very good  ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Wickerman on July 29, 2014, 02:19 PM
Base on the go as I speak, been boiling for 1/2 hour and is smelling good, very good  ;D
h
I can smell them from here, Andy
I shall be dusting of my apron and giving this a go this weekend.
The best of luck to all
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 29, 2014, 03:26 PM
NOTE - When scaling down a recipe please remember to always scale down all ingredients accordingly, DO NOT half onions, peppers ,carrot, tomatoes and not half the turmeric and salt, otherwise when tasting during the first stage you will realize you have dropped an almighty bollock and have to bin the entire contains of the pot and start again from scratch, Thankyou.  :'(
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: london on July 29, 2014, 04:47 PM
I feel for you mate, my mistakes are usually Teaspoon Tablespoon related.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 29, 2014, 05:08 PM
Cheers London, schoolboy error pure and simple, I'll tempt fate again-first stage nearly complete, sweetening up nicely, aromas are very nice, and it doesn't taste like I used water from the North Sea! Bonus
 Looking forward to 2nd stage and the garlic tarka addition
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: london on July 29, 2014, 05:58 PM
At least the ingredients are cheap, it not like you ballsed up a rib of beef or something expensive. Good luck with the second batch. I'll be trying this base when I've used up my current one.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 29, 2014, 06:11 PM
Oh I'm not sure on that, those onions cost me £1 !
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Nick D on July 29, 2014, 06:59 PM
Made this base yesterday thought it was very good, excellent sweetness from the onions and a great texture.
I tarkered a diced a clove of garlic and may have over cooked slightly found the flavour was a bit  dominant  in the finished base.
Not quite the missing % that I have been chasing for many years now but still a fine gravy.
Interesting idea tarkering garlic for the gravy, I have always tarkered garlic and ginger paste.
Will try finely chopped ginger as well as garlic next time.

Thanks JB for posting this.

Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on July 29, 2014, 07:16 PM
Hi MA also looking forwards to your impute on the 2nd attempt  :P
the reviews are stacking up !
I'm so torn between starting on a new base as I have the one I'm using down to a fine flavour, but I know I'm going to give in and make it ;)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 29, 2014, 07:23 PM
Yep LC thats how I feel about the base I've been using, but as I have just run out it was time to make a new batch. Just make a half batch and if you don't like it , no real loss.
I must say this is looking, tasting, smelling very promising indeed. Just the blend then garlic tarka and re-cook to do, then leave it to sit while I pop out for a while, and give it a proper taste later
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on July 29, 2014, 07:27 PM
Why would you have to boil for longer at home than the takeaway does? Boiling is boiling isn't it, wherever it happens

Donald B
Unfortunately you need to take into account the difference in heat output and then consider the internal temperature inside a large BIR pot of base gravy, also calculate the difference in times as there base would continue cooking even without heat. ;)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on July 29, 2014, 07:38 PM
Is it going to be a Madras test curry MA? Think this is my standard testing curry of choice followed by a korma, if they both pass then it's a another keeper :)
I'm not a sweet curry fan but still appreciate the flavour of a BIR korma, also the need to keep the Wife Happy  :P
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Yousef on July 29, 2014, 08:39 PM
Any pics yet guys? Would like to see the base and a resulting curry pictures.

Stew
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 29, 2014, 08:43 PM
Yes LC it will be a Madras, or then again a vindaloo! But not tonight, time got the better of me so the base is been left overnight unblended and no garlic tarka added. It shall be continued tomorrow morning, fingers crossed it should still taste great.

Stew I will take base pictures tomorrow, unblended, blended and garlic tarka added
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: london on July 29, 2014, 09:09 PM
MA,

What base are you using at the moment???.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on July 29, 2014, 09:33 PM
Looking forward to seeing the photos MA, also any other photos relating to this base or final curry posted
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 29, 2014, 09:38 PM
London , using cross between my base, taz base and kd2 base, all experimental of course, all very good but no eureka moment as of yet.
 Thats why I am now making Jb's base in the search for the perfect one ( for my tastebuds anyhow), whether it will be better than anything else remains to be seen , but my fingers are well and truly crossed.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: london on July 29, 2014, 11:11 PM
Looking forward to your results, I've got a freezer full of chewy's base which tastes nice, but I've not cooked a curry with it yet.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on July 30, 2014, 02:04 AM
Is it going to be a Madras test curry MA? Think this is my standard testing curry of choice followed by a korma, if they both pass then it's a another keeper :)
I'm not a sweet curry fan but still appreciate the flavour of a BIR korma, also the need to keep the Wife Happy  :P

Jesus Christ on a cross littlechilie!

How can you not be a sweet curry fan and yet promote the disgustingly sweet (to the point of nausea) BIR korma as one of your reference points? :o

Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on July 30, 2014, 07:26 AM
Yep good point SS I slipped up there! Shame on me, I take it all back ;) KarmaLoo ! ! ;D

Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 30, 2014, 10:17 AM
Morning all, blended the base earlier this morning , brought back up to heat, it tasted ok nothing special really, or should I say nothing more special than your normal base.
I then fried the garlic, added garlic and oil to base , added half ladle base to the garlic pan and sizzled and de-glazed and added back to base. The smell was becoming more BIR , a little taste and it was improving a little. Brought the base upto boil for a few minutes and turned down and left it on a very gentle simmer , as I kept popping into the kitchen the aroma was getting stronger , the flavour was improving .
 After 1 hour simmering turned off heat had a taste, wow , bloody lovely, definately has something other bases havent.
 Is it the best base I have made ? possibly
 Is it as good as the restaurant bases I have tasted? Possibly.

 I will not say this is the one, eureka, goldilocks moment or anything else about the base until I have done some tests on it. But what I will say is it is bloody lovely and very very promising!!!!

Thankyou Jb for sharing this , I am really looking forward to anything else that surfaces from your takeaway experience, cheers :)
 
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on July 30, 2014, 10:29 AM
Morning Andy great update with your progress regarding jb's base, this is getting more interesting day by day. Can I ask how much garlic u fried please?
Thanks
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 30, 2014, 10:37 AM
Morning lc, as I made a 1.5kg version instead of the full 3kg version I used 1 small garlic clove which I put through a garlic press then added to 1 chef spoon of hot oil and fried for a minute or so until browned, stiring all the time.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on July 30, 2014, 12:14 PM
Morning all, blended the base earlier this morning , brought back up to heat, it tasted ok nothing special really, or should I say nothing more special than your normal base.
I then fried the garlic, added garlic and oil to base , added half ladle base to the garlic pan and sizzled and de-glazed and added back to base. The smell was becoming more BIR , a little taste and it was improving a little. Brought the base upto boil for a few minutes and turned down and left it on a very gentle simmer , as I kept popping into the kitchen the aroma was getting stronger , the flavour was improving .
 After 1 hour simmering turned off heat had a taste, wow , bloody lovely, definately has something other bases havent.
 Is it the best base I have made ? possibly
 Is it as good as the restaurant bases I have tasted? Possibly.

 I will not say this is the one, eureka, goldilocks moment or anything else about the base until I have done some tests on it. But what I will say is it is bloody lovely and very very promising!!!!

Thankyou Jb for sharing this , I am really looking forward to anything else that surfaces from your takeaway experience, cheers :)

No problem,I've been on this forum since it started and its's given me a lot of info over the years,for free I might add,so anything I can give back is a pleasure.As soon as I get back in there I will let everyone know.




Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 30, 2014, 12:51 PM
A few thoughts on the base-

The onions have to be initially cooked for long enough

Which onions are best to use out of the cheap readily available onions?

Chef spoon measures , what is this in Tbs? Chef spoons vary greatly in size

I based my attempt on 1 chefspoon=3Tbs

Oil rising to the top of the finished base, is there enough oil in the base?

The final cook after the garlic tarka is added is very important, mine changed dramatically in this phase of the process
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: london on July 30, 2014, 02:39 PM
I wonder if it's the sizzling of the base when you De-glaze the pan after frying the garlic that makes the difference and not the garlic as 1 clove of garlic is very much for a whole pot of base?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on July 30, 2014, 05:23 PM
Hi Jb I am cooking for 20 people on Friday afternoon so I have decided to take a calculated risk and use your base, it's now on the boil on high heat for two hours maybe a little more.
I shall be serving mild Madras , Mushroom fried rice and Tarka Dal.
Followed later in the afternoon with a selection of home made pickles, tandoor chicken , indian salads and Naan breads, washed down with a selection of extremely cold beers :)
I'm extremely great-full for your recipe and will fill you in on my results and comments.
Many thanks.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 30, 2014, 05:46 PM
Brave LC, cooking for 20 with a new base! I'll be checking my postbox in morning for my invite
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: chewytikka on July 30, 2014, 05:50 PM
Your even starting to sound like Professor Jerry M ;D ;D
Stew I will take base pictures tomorrow, unblended, blended and garlic tarka added
What happened here then MA? I wanted to see if the base was bright orange like JB's

The common Chef's spoon is 30g = 2Tbs
Oil, You get out what you put in.

Shame you couldn’t  follow and review JB’s 3kg recipe and method.
We all know you like to mess about with peoples recipes, but its not really a fair reflection on his original 3kg recipe IMO.

Was this still a 3Hour base then? ;D or did you adjust the time.

Half  a clove of Garlic ;D Sorry had to chuckle at this...

cheers Chewy
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: ckchao on July 30, 2014, 06:01 PM
haha, that missing 5% is that one tiny clove of garlic! put more please, make chewytikka proud!
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 30, 2014, 06:16 PM
Harsh chewy

The recipe was halved , the first stage was boiled for 2 hours , the spices added and simmered half hour , the garlic tarka added and cooked for hour as  half hour didn't taste cooked enough, as Jb said half hour if not longer, where's the problem?

I asked about chef spoon measurements as there is a lot of debate on the matter, haldi says 4 desert spoons you say 2 Tbs Jb says it looked like 4Tbs , lot of variation there.

As for pictures I haven't had chance to upload them as I have not been at home to access my laptop for most of the day.
 
Half a clove of garlic?

As for messing about with people's recipes , I always cook people's recipes to spec first , if I don't like them I don't cook them again, if there are parts of the recipe I like I use it, don't see what the problem is    ;)

Cheers MA
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: ckchao on July 30, 2014, 06:30 PM
off a bit of topic, maybe the Black Garlic could give you all that big extra unami for the Bir taste! although it is laboring to ferment! If that tiny 5% is from garlic. I am hoping big from this garlic perspective. unfortunately I have no black garlic on hand.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on July 30, 2014, 06:55 PM
Never heard of it before Ckchao but a google search provided this.

Mr Botwright, 51, is Britain's only producer of black garlic, which costs ?3.50 per bulb and has a shelf life of over a year

IMO there is no profit for a business that uses 100s of bulbs a week at this price :(
Good idea though.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: ckchao on July 30, 2014, 07:38 PM
if check youtube, I say guys u ferment black garlic by using electronic rice cooker by urself making sure temperature from 55 - 60 C ( and humidity range 60-80, for home rice cooker it is secondary thing ) . try chicken soup with these garlic clove. garlic, you will get that sweet unami. eat raw no problem. if willing spend invent to ferment. U got that extreme flavor from garlic without bitterness. Of course it is not for Bir normal business running. But , I say this to u if this is that final 5% unami from garlic. Winner takes all!

Originally, black garlic from Korean and Japanese culture.

try and cheers,
Kai (ckchao)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: ckchao on July 30, 2014, 08:41 PM
Why I migrate the JB base topic in here is because c2g of which Julian did mention: please don't burn your garlic. For me as a Taiwanese Chinese, we eat lots of garlic. If in one hand u want that oil to fry the garlic to compound that garlic into the oil, the chance is quite little to maximize to achieving true Bir unami. Because I believe the part of secret is from oil that combine sugary taste from onions gravy and masala oil. I prefer you try pete's onion paste first, plus chewytikka's 3hr base for the clear shin by dumping onion paste to cook your gravy. Jerry_M once said the oil helps soften and sweeten the onions. If black garlic can be provided to that extra. Otherwise I really don't know everyone has different Bir taste in mind. If u don't like onion paste in gravy, why not just use lots of oil to cook out lots of onions. Claiming out the oil and put water to melt the onions and dilute the onion thickness. In this way, I believe the Indian masala flavor can be achieved with frying pan without long wasting time to caramelize onions. U know too much carbon from caramelize onions is no good for your body!   

Gee, u guys are new Bir revolution in here.
Thank you all educate me for Bir curry.
Kai
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on July 30, 2014, 09:22 PM
Hi Jb I am cooking for 20 people on Friday afternoon so I have decided to take a calculated risk and use your base, it's now on the boil on high heat for two hours maybe a little more.
I shall be serving mild Madras , Mushroom fried rice and Tarka Dal.
Followed later in the afternoon with a selection of home made pickles, tandoor chicken , indian salads and Naan breads, washed down with a selection of extremely cold beers :)
I'm extremely great-full for your recipe and will fill you in on my results and comments.
Many thanks.

Oh gawd,I hope I don't let you down...all the best!!
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 30, 2014, 10:10 PM
Your base wont let lc down jb, just got in tonight and had a taste of a portion of your base (even though I made a scaled down version, naughty me) I have kept in the fridge, it tastes wonderful, cant wait to make a curry tomorrow night, cheers again  :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on July 30, 2014, 10:13 PM
Ok Jb here is my results, I found the base very easy to put together and was a little unsure about the veg ingredients being cooked together. 
I proceeded as instructions and also needed to add water many times during the first stage of cooking but I left my lid half of to reduce.
After 2 hours it was clear to me the base was a long way from cooked so I added the spice and toms the cooked hard for another hour.
I remember u saying times u were not 100% on time, after 3 hours I could smell the base was cooked and it smelt wonderful.
At this point I blended still on the heat then simmered 30 mins while I added your sizzle, to be honest I wasn't sure it needed this as my flavour was already there after 3 hours hard boil.
I have now simmered for another hour so total cooking time is over 4 hours for me, the sizzle flavour has blended in well and is now undetectable..

My opinion is purely of the base flavour as my sense of smell is shot after the cooking, my wife just asked me what's cooking as it's making her hungry !! This is indeed very good news!

The taste is sweet and Unami it's there alright ;0) I know as u do this is from the proper cooking of the onions, it's a Wonderful flavour and  I could sit down and tuck in to a big bowl of this base.

Photo1
before blending after 3 hours of cooking!

Photo2
finished base not yet diluted, I have no concerns about using this to cook with on Friday and will post more then.

My camera is a bit saturated but the colour is a nice light orange.
Many thanks.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on July 30, 2014, 10:18 PM
Just missed your post MA, well I think scaled or full recipe if it's cooked correctly I feel that is what's important for the flavour.
If the taste is there it's a done deal  ;)
Curry On
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: london on July 30, 2014, 10:21 PM
Your base wont let lc down jb, just got in tonight and had a taste of a portion of your base (even though I made a scaled down version, naughty me) I have kept in the fridge, it tastes wonderful, cant wait to make a curry tomorrow night, cheers again  :)
What are you making, a madras by any chance, looking forward to the result.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 30, 2014, 10:24 PM
looks good lc, havent had the chance today to upload my photos or cook a madras.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: ckchao on July 31, 2014, 12:03 AM
looking good! little chille! where is the garlic tarka? till Friday?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: noble ox on July 31, 2014, 08:16 AM
Its pleasing to see some good results with this base :D
just for my inventiveness and amusement I portioned up some of this base and made a tarka with smoked garlic 3 cloves for my vindaloos and wow vindaloo heaven what a taste
Is this the smokeyness Birs use? I don't know
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 31, 2014, 08:40 AM
Morning noble ox, great to hear of all the positives coming from this base , would you say it's your best vindaloo?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: JerryM on July 31, 2014, 08:47 AM
Jerry_M once said the oil helps soften and sweeten the onions.

impressive memory or searching.

quite ironic for me too. still work in progress but the basic basic base work i'm on with "no water" is producing much stronger oil. it's a step on from the original onion boiling trials.

the key thing is that the jb information is opening members eye's ie they are realising that this BIR is not just recipe following.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Edwin Catflap on July 31, 2014, 09:21 AM
Hi Jb

I usually make a base with about 750 grams of onions due to space, so if I scale it down to that volume do I really only use a 1/4 of a clove of garlic for the tarka?

Cheers Ed
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 31, 2014, 09:28 AM
Hi Ed I scaled down to 1.5kg and for the garlic tarka I used a medium size clove, as opposed to the largest cloves in the bulb, it worked wonderfully well.
 I think it will be worth experimenting on just how much garlic can be used in the tarka. It all comes down to personal taste really. I added a tarka using a small garlic clove in 400ml of base and it tasted great and produced a fantastic curry. I havent made a curry as of yet with the 1.5kg so dont know how the tarka holds up in that one.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: noble ox on July 31, 2014, 11:35 AM
Hi MA
 A huge step to the top of the ladder now my default vindy
Its difficult to judge a base on its own but when used in a curry it" goes for gold"
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 31, 2014, 11:51 AM
Mr ox
Couldn't agree more, the proof will be in the cooking of the curry tonight, but the aroma and taste of this base is as close as I've got to the restaurant base I get.
What is your current vindaloo recipe?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Edwin Catflap on July 31, 2014, 12:39 PM
Hi MA, thanks for that I'll probably use 1/2 a medium clove then?

Ed
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: BobinSpain on July 31, 2014, 02:42 PM
As someone new to this forum, I've read all of this thread with great interest.

Although I've only just made a batch of a different base (I haven't even cooked a curry with it yet  :P ! ) my enthusiasm has got the better of me and I currently have a full batch of this base boiling furiously on the hob  ;D

Excluding KD and Curry Club bases I made years ago, this will only be my fourth base.

Having now lived in Spain for 7 years the BIR smell is only in my mind. There is an Indian Restaurant here so I, sad git that I am  ::) , walked by it the  other day just so I could cop a waft from the kitchen!
Although the place was open there was virtually no smell at all emanating from the place. There was a British couple seated outside, each of them had a distinctly runny looking curry and they were sharing a naan bread that looked more like a "thin & crispy" pizza base.
Don't think I'll be asking the owner for a sample of their base gravy  ???
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: noble ox on July 31, 2014, 02:52 PM
Hi MA ;D
At the moment I been playing with your recipe instead of adding lemon juice I use 1/2 a cooking apple skinned it soon pulps down and gets a sweetish tangy taste try it
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 31, 2014, 03:16 PM
Hi MA ;D
At the moment I been playing with your recipe instead of adding lemon juice I use 1/2 a cooking apple skinned it soon pulps down and gets a sweetish tangy taste try it

Never thought of trying that one mr ox, on my todo list, shame I can't get to any shops in time for tonight's curry though. Might have a try with lime again instead
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on July 31, 2014, 04:02 PM
There's something decidedly wrong with you guy's tastes if you think a single tarka'd clove of garlic can have such a profound effect on a 3kg base as you appear to be claiming - you're all barking (or super tasters)!  ;D

I used a single clove in a single portion of base and that gave a noticeable smokey garlic flavour to the base but even that virtually disappeared once blended and cooked into the curry. Something very amiss here and I'm not having it that it's just me!  :o  ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 31, 2014, 04:18 PM
Lol @ SS  ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: ziggycat on July 31, 2014, 04:27 PM
There's something decidedly wrong with you guy's tastes if you think a single tarka'd clove of garlic can have such a profound effect on a 3kg base as you appear to be claiming - you're all barking (or super tasters)!  ;D

I used a single clove in a single portion of base and that gave a noticeable smokey garlic flavour to the base but even that virtually disappeared once blended and cooked into the curry. Something very amiss here and I'm not having it that it's just me!  :o  ;D

(http://robertatkinson61.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/wibble.jpg?w=494&h=327)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: dc on July 31, 2014, 05:09 PM
There's something decidedly wrong with you guy's tastes if you think a single tarka'd clove of garlic can have such a profound effect on a 3kg base as you appear to be claiming - you're all barking (or super tasters)!  ;D

I used a single clove in a single portion of base and that gave a noticeable smokey garlic flavour to the base but even that virtually disappeared once blended and cooked into the curry. Something very amiss here and I'm not having it that it's just me!  :o  ;D

Must be the curry base equivalent of homeopathy ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: noble ox on July 31, 2014, 05:51 PM
SS
There's something decidedly wrong with you guy's tastes if you think a single tarka'd clove of garlic can have such a profound effect on a 3kg base as you appear to be claiming - you're all barking (or super tasters)!  ;D

Not just a 3kg base but a base cooked as it should be cooked SS try it for yourself rather than experiment with UFOs( Unidentified fried objects) follow jbs recipe as written down in this thread
then you can make a proper judgement rather than poo poo it :D :D :D
You may be surprised ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: ckchao on July 31, 2014, 06:49 PM
Where were those Jedi gone? left we little chilies here! JB base is really good! I want see everyone's garlic tarka photos. Where is h4ppy Chris? Phil? Cory? Haldi is here but silent! Not bad! JB is very open heart for your thought. Hey, We are the No.1 Bir curry club here on this planet. Hey I might be foreign to u but u are not foreign to me. Make your judgement call for this base!
Kai
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: JerryM on July 31, 2014, 07:07 PM
It's no good us falling out on this base

For a start if it's good or bad the read is 10 for entertainment.

When you've made a few base you will realise there is a threshold and the remaining steps have a far bigger impact.

This base does look good. I should analyse it but I've been taken in by the new Dawn before. 

Does the garlic make a difference. It clearly depends on how dark you get it and how much is used. Is it a game changer then it's a no.

If you feel it is then great. The importance is to be very greatful for jb's efforts.

He and emin-j have suffered more than most. 

I am quite excited. There is a good chance that we can learn as more info comes to hand.

The key for me is that I members blinkers coming off and what would be normally poo poo'd  is being given a work out.

That information and experience can only bode well.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: haldi on July 31, 2014, 07:13 PM
There's something decidedly wrong with you guy's tastes if you think a single tarka'd clove of garlic can have such a profound effect on a 3kg base as you appear to be claiming - you're all barking (or super tasters)!  ;D

I used a single clove in a single portion of base and that gave a noticeable smokey garlic flavour to the base but even that virtually disappeared once blended and cooked into the curry. Something very amiss here and I'm not having it that it's just me!  :o  ;D

It's the base coupled with the tarka
Follow the complete recipe
The only tricky part is when frying the garlic
Get it to a nut brown colour then pour it immediatelyinto your base
Then quickly wash out the pan with some of your curry gravy and put that back into the main pot
Boil the whole thing again

Seriously, this is amazing
I have tried hundreds of base recipes and had loads of demos
Nothing has ever come close to this result

For me the end result is 100% bir gravy

Just a thought
Have you ever had a sample gravy from a takeaway/restaurant?
Maybe you don't know what it should taste like
It also could be a regional thing
Where are you from?
Or maybe you overcooked the garlic

I don't want to rush into any old recipes with this
I shall wait for JB's madras recipe when he can get it
Or try his basic curry
I can't believe I have actually managed to do this
I know it's silly but I've been on an "up" all week because of it
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: noble ox on July 31, 2014, 07:23 PM
Haldi
I reckon SS  is just having a wind up or trying :D
Still the best base when cooked properly and no E-books to rip you off ;D

Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: ckchao on July 31, 2014, 07:26 PM
Jerry_M once said the oil helps soften and sweeten the onions.

impressive memory or searching.

quite ironic for me too. still work in progress but the basic basic base work i'm on with "no water" is producing much stronger oil.

Hi JerryM
stronger oil is good for rest of cooking after base reclaiming. Don't you think sweet onion base gravy is not our goal here for most of curry fan? Stronger oil produces the aroma by emusifying with onion and water not what we want in the base? If oil is plain how can we later on utilize browning reaction to pan fry that onion sugar. Strongly flavoured oil is absolute essential for Chinese restaurent stir fry. I have never eaten a  naturally sweeten cuury by water but I have good restaurent experience by oily sweeten onion gravy. Cheer up for curry!
Kai
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on July 31, 2014, 07:33 PM
Where were those Jedi gone? left we little chilies here! JB base is really good! I want see everyone's garlic tarka photos. Where is h4ppy Chris? Phil? Cory? Haldi is here but silent!

Phil is here.  He was in Germany (Bolsehle) last weekend, and prior to that, Abu Dhabi, China, Tibet and Nepal.  This latest development looks very interesting, and I shall most certainly be trying it, but before that I have some left-overs (lamb shank, chicken leg, beef) from the Raja of Kent (Tenterden) to eat up, and I also want to make some inroads into Camellia Panjabi's "50 Great Curries of India", just in case I am lucky enough that she really does give me an Indian cookery lesson following our chance meeting recently. 

H4C is banned (but I think we should start a petition for his re-instatement), CA is despot of his own forum (from which a large number of members of this forum are banned); and for myself, where (I wonder) are Bob ("976bar"), Ray ("Razor") and Malc ("Axe") ?

** Phil.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Donald Brasco on July 31, 2014, 07:36 PM
I don't see how frying one clove of garlic and adding it to a single portion of a different base will tell you anything about jb's base recipe. Why not make it as posted then draw conclusions? I'm sure many folks will be doing the same over the coming weeks and I'll have a go too. Then conclusions could be posted, by folks who've cooked it.

Ps 68 guests viewing this topic right now. Is that unusual?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 31, 2014, 07:51 PM
Just warming a portion of this base , it smells amazing, smells like the restaurant base and I can tell the garlic tarka is in there. About to make a vindaloo, rice done , nan dough ready , beer flowing, music booming , happy happy days!!
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Stephen Lindsay on July 31, 2014, 07:53 PM
Just warming a portion of this base , it smells amazing, smells like the restaurant base and I can tell the garlic tarka is in there. About to make a vindaloo, rice done , nan dough ready , beer flowing, music booming , happy happy days!!

looking forward to hearing how you got on with this base
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: ckchao on July 31, 2014, 07:59 PM
Phil around the world 80 days; my dream. but I am nervus The Ebola.

Andy, What a life! Ur beer and curry makes me happy. cheers bloke.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 31, 2014, 09:13 PM
looking forward to hearing how you got on with this base

Evening Stephen,

The base worked beautifully, made one of my most enjoyable, moreish, BIR tasting/smelling vindaloos. And that was after making a batch of nan bread dough, a large pot of pilau, batch of garlic paste, batch of blended green chilli, batch of blended plum tomato all  of which have stocked up my freezer.
Really enjoyed the Vindaloo, pilau rice and nan bread.
 Ill post a couple of pictures in the correct section shortly
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on July 31, 2014, 09:31 PM
Guys the base is a great base it just tastes real when it's cooked correctly, SS as for the garlic Tarka from me it doesn't make a huge difference but the base stands up without it !
It's a real BIR base, tonight I made a trial madras and with the right cooking techniques its as good as my TA!! That's all I want to achieve in a curry when I cook :)

MA I have a photo of a madras using the base is there a correct place to post it? As I'm still not familiar here, was I bad putting up photo on jb's thread? Cheers mate.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 31, 2014, 09:43 PM
Lc just go to the Pictures of your curry section, I have just posted all mine there now, Base, curry,rice, and nan from tonight.

This base is wonderful, my new standard base without doubt, it is easily the closest I have come to the taste and aroma of the restaurant bases I have tasted, cheers jb
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on July 31, 2014, 09:48 PM
Thanks mate just posted it up, yep I also will now use this base as standard. Very impressive.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Donald Brasco on July 31, 2014, 10:18 PM


The chef then explained that in the takeaway they leave the gravy like this(it's quite thick) and then add water to thin when they need it.It should be very thin,like watery soup.However when it hits the hot pan it will thicken.Finally take another pan,add a chef's spoon of oil and add a very finely chopped garlic clove and brown it.Tip this into the gravy(rinse the garlic pan out with a spoon of gravy).This seemed to give the gravy a fantastic smokey like flavour.Simmer the sauce for about half an hour and the oil should begin to rise.



Is the watering down of the base to "very thin like watery soup" done before the garlic is added and cooked for half an hour, or is the garlic added and cooked for 30 mins then later when the base is to be cooked with it's diluted till very thin? Seems like what's written above could mean either?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: sp on July 31, 2014, 10:19 PM
Good job, very interesting the differences in how gravies are done down south compared to up here
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: ckchao on July 31, 2014, 10:32 PM
congratulation! u see this base is not just one person's success! what I see here is a long haul of this forum! I must admit to say my heart to chewytikka! without his 3hr base understanding I won't support for any paticular! Chewy is really my hero for everyone to salute! If u think for a moment, How do rest of us to believe to melt that milky base. It is chewytikka! Normal way of one hour base cooking is just not enough time for the base. Rest of stories we write! Thanks Chewytikka, JB. Please continue to post photos to support ur feeling.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: rshome123 on July 31, 2014, 10:36 PM
Getting very interested in trying this base soon. 

Is the original post the full recipe, or should the many pages following it be read ? 

May I suggest that the original post be edited to include all the unambiguous and any extra detail.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on July 31, 2014, 10:44 PM
Getting very interested in trying this base soon. 

Is the original post the full recipe, or should the many pages following it be read ? 

May I suggest that the original post be edited to include all the unambiguous and any extra detail.

Yes mate as I understand it the original post is the full recipe, I think the only problem may be the chefspoon size, or peoples interpretation of a chefspoon size . I have based mine on 1 chefspoon=2Tbs
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on August 01, 2014, 12:16 AM
Yep andy I would agree with your judgment here level spoons for me, any more would over spice the base for my taste.

Standard Chef spoon is now standard 30grams according to Julian Volgt in 2012, old style is 80g being fazed out?

2 tablespoons 1/8 cup    1 ounce 28.3 grams


My opinion is Stick with Jb's original recipie no adjustments need to be made here :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on August 01, 2014, 12:31 AM


The chef then explained that in the takeaway they leave the gravy like this(it's quite thick) and then add water to thin when they need it.It should be very thin,like watery soup.However when it hits the hot pan it will thicken.Finally take another pan,add a chef's spoon of oil and add a very finely chopped garlic clove and brown it.Tip this into the gravy(rinse the garlic pan out with a spoon of gravy).This seemed to give the gravy a fantastic smokey like flavour.Simmer the sauce for about half an hour and the oil should begin to rise.



Is the watering down of the base to "very thin like watery soup" done before the garlic is added and cooked for half an hour, or is the garlic added and cooked for 30 mins then later when the base is to be cooked with it's diluted till very thin? Seems like what's written above could mean either?


If this helps MY dilution of the base to water is 50/50, cooked out like dream leaving a perfect consistency. 
I think My understanding is thin out B4 use but I'm sure Jb can confirm either way that's what I choose.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Aussie Mick on August 01, 2014, 02:45 AM
Thanks for sharing JB. Sounds really promising.

Glad you are impressed MA, and glad you kept an open mind re: green/red peppers in a base.  ;)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: mickdabass on August 01, 2014, 08:48 AM


Yes mate as I understand it the original post is the full recipe, I think the only problem may be the chefspoon size, or peoples interpretation of a chefspoon size . I have based mine on 1 chefspoon=2Tbs
[/quote]

sure i read somewhere Jb thought 1 chef spoon = 4 desert spoons

regards

Mick
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on August 01, 2014, 08:52 AM


The chef then explained that in the takeaway they leave the gravy like this(it's quite thick) and then add water to thin when they need it.It should be very thin,like watery soup.However when it hits the hot pan it will thicken.Finally take another pan,add a chef's spoon of oil and add a very finely chopped garlic clove and brown it.Tip this into the gravy(rinse the garlic pan out with a spoon of gravy).This seemed to give the gravy a fantastic smokey like flavour.Simmer the sauce for about half an hour and the oil should begin to rise.



Is the watering down of the base to "very thin like watery soup" done before the garlic is added and cooked for half an hour, or is the garlic added and cooked for 30 mins then later when the base is to be cooked with it's diluted till very thin? Seems like what's written above could mean either?

The thick base is diluted FIRST and then the garlic tarka is added and the base re boiled.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on August 01, 2014, 09:00 AM
There's something decidedly wrong with you guy's tastes if you think a single tarka'd clove of garlic can have such a profound effect on a 3kg base as you appear to be claiming - you're all barking (or super tasters)!  ;D

I used a single clove in a single portion of base and that gave a noticeable smokey garlic flavour to the base but even that virtually disappeared once blended and cooked into the curry. Something very amiss here and I'm not having it that it's just me!  :o  ;D

SS you're correct,it does seem strange that something so simple can make such a big difference.However,you HAVE to follow the recipe for this base,boiling,thinning,re-boiling etc.I can only repeat that it is exactly how the chef makes it in his takeaway,and when I made it that evening it tasted EXACTLY like the base he had on his stove top.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on August 01, 2014, 09:22 AM
There's something decidedly wrong with you guy's tastes if you think a single tarka'd clove of garlic can have such a profound effect on a 3kg base as you appear to be claiming - you're all barking (or super tasters)!  ;D

I used a single clove in a single portion of base and that gave a noticeable smokey garlic flavour to the base but even that virtually disappeared once blended and cooked into the curry. Something very amiss here and I'm not having it that it's just me!  :o  ;D

It's the base coupled with the tarka
Follow the complete recipe
The only tricky part is when frying the garlic
Get it to a nut brown colour then pour it immediatelyinto your base
Then quickly wash out the pan with some of your curry gravy and put that back into the main pot
Boil the whole thing again

Seriously, this is amazing
I have tried hundreds of base recipes and had loads of demos
Nothing has ever come close to this result

For me the end result is 100% bir gravy

Just a thought
Have you ever had a sample gravy from a takeaway/restaurant?
Maybe you don't know what it should taste like
It also could be a regional thing
Where are you from?
Or maybe you overcooked the garlic

I don't want to rush into any old recipes with this
I shall wait for JB's madras recipe when he can get it
Or try his basic curry
I can't believe I have actually managed to do this
I know it's silly but I've been on an "up" all week because of it

Well pleased for you Haldi,if anyone is in a position to judge if this is good is yourself.I know how hard you've tried to get into kitchens and have demos etc,just like myself.Actually I've been sitting at work all week thinking about this base and what I'm going to ask next time I'm in the kitchen,so you're not alone!!

Of course I will get the recipes for the chef's main courses and sides when I can.The thing is though I watched the chef cooking when I was in the kitchen,all of his dishes were cooked using the usual range of ingredients(apart from the special chilli sauce which I will ask about).So I think you can use any of your usual recipes at the moment,the most important thing is the base,this is where 'that' flavour comes from.

Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on August 01, 2014, 09:31 AM
Thanks for detailed clarification of process Jb.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on August 01, 2014, 01:10 PM
Really good fun JB, did you hang around and get offered any Iftar goodies.

Was this better for you than the Zaal visit, i.e. a one to one tutorial with these cooks.

Just to back up your report about adding a Garlic tarka, which is old school BTW and not a lot of my locals do anymore.
I took a phone pic of a 30lt restaurant base last night, you can see the sliced garlic floating on top of the oil, before the base was blended.

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/0266d84e94fdec07881a0d0dec579ffe.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#0266d84e94fdec07881a0d0dec579ffe.jpg)

Although you say only one clove of Garlic, sliced and fried (Tarka) to finish,
even in a 3kilo base I would use at least 5 cloves of Garlic to get the flavour into it.

Anyhoo, what level would you rate this TA's curries and have you tried any of their speciality dishes.

Good Post ;)
cheers Chewy

Just re-reading this post and I've noticed something that Chewy and Secret Santa said.I only diluted about a third of my gravy(the rest is in the freezer) and added one clove of garlic.I'll have to ask next time but maybe if you dilute the whole 3 kilo's worth of base then you do have to add more garlic,say three or four,I honestly don't know.If you do have to add more than maybe the BIR smell could even be more intense.However looking at Chewy's picture certainly confirms that some BIR chefs still do this technique.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on August 01, 2014, 01:33 PM
Quote
Just re-reading this post and I've noticed something that Chewy and Secret Santa said.I only diluted about a third of my gravy(the rest is in the freezer) and added one clove of garlic

That would make more sense. The old portion(350-400ml) of base I first tried the tarka on I used a small clove of garlic and the aroma was wonderfully BIR, On the 1.5kg jb base I used 1 medium clove and the base was still excellent but the aroma was not quite so strong.

Hence the reason I only made a smaller batch rather than the full 3kg, as things always come to light after I ever make anything new !!!

after everyone has made it , all measures and processes sorted all questions asked maybe you should look at posting the recipe again , just to avoid any confusion, just a thought

Cheers for keeping us informed Jb
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Garp on August 01, 2014, 01:41 PM
Good call, Andy. I'd like to try it but it's a bit confusing at the moment.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: gazman1976 on August 01, 2014, 11:45 PM
Made this to spec, sorry but nothing special, I believe bb1 mentioned the melting of the onions which I do with the Glasgow base, obviously a regional thing
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Aussie Mick on August 02, 2014, 04:51 AM
The big appeal for me with this base is the tiny, tiny amount of oil in comparison to other bases. Obviously, if people have tried it and say it's good, then this is promising and a very healthy (or less unhealthy) base is great news as far as I'm concerned.

Still can't find any coconut block down here and I've searched high and low. I think I'll try a chef spoon of coconut milk powder an see how that goes.

Thanks again JB
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Donald Brasco on August 02, 2014, 05:39 AM
A small point of detail which JB might want to check next time he's back - coconut block typically has a big fat layer of solid coconut oil on top. Is it just the coconut block itself which is added to the base, or some of the coconut oil? Or maybe it was actually the oily part of the coconut block which was added?  This would help bring the oil level in this base up, but perhaps as Mick says it's just a feature of this recipe that there's not much oil?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on August 02, 2014, 08:00 AM
A small point of detail which JB might want to check next time he's back - coconut block typically has a big fat layer of solid coconut oil on top. Is it just the coconut block itself which is added to the base, or some of the coconut oil? Or maybe it was actually the oily part of the coconut block which was added?  This would help bring the oil level in this base up, but perhaps as Mick says it's just a feature of this recipe that there's not much oil?

http://www.ktc-edibles.com/shop.php?sec=prod&prod=90 (http://www.ktc-edibles.com/shop.php?sec=prod&prod=90)

This is the stuff he used,regular coconut block,just cut a bit off really.Not sure what you mean about coconut oil,it's just a solid,hard block,there's no oil,at least there's not in this brand which is the one I usually use myself.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on August 02, 2014, 08:05 AM
Yep my coconut was just a solid hard block, KTC brand
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: haldi on August 02, 2014, 08:15 AM
Still can't find any coconut block down here and I've searched high and low. I think I'll try a chef spoon of coconut milk powder an see how that goes.

Hi Mick what about getting it online for another time
It keeps indefinitely in the fridge, if you ignore the best before date (which I do)
Actually the best before date on my recent block is October 2016!!
I don't reckon I'll have it that long
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on August 02, 2014, 09:38 AM
My thoughts are the coconut added is quite an importers factor for the flavour produced in Jb's base, in the completed base you get little zaps of a sweet moorish zing hitting your taste buds. 
Also uses ktc brand solid block.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on August 02, 2014, 12:14 PM
Not sure what you mean about coconut oil,it's just a solid,hard block,there's no oil,at least there's not in this brand which is the one I usually use myself.

Perhaps you just haven't noticed? The end of the block is usually less white and more translucent than the rest of the block...that's the oil. I have Heera brand at the moment which has it but I'm pretty sure the KTC has it too when I've used it in the past.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Garp on August 02, 2014, 12:49 PM
I just get the Blue Dragon one - no sign of any separation  :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on August 02, 2014, 01:13 PM
Havent noticed it in my KTC one, it has always been in the fridge
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Donald Brasco on August 02, 2014, 03:03 PM
A small point of detail which JB might want to check next time he's back - coconut block typically has a big fat layer of solid coconut oil on top. Is it just the coconut block itself which is added to the base, or some of the coconut oil? Or maybe it was actually the oily part of the coconut block which was added?  This would help bring the oil level in this base up, but perhaps as Mick says it's just a feature of this recipe that there's not much oil?

http://www.ktc-edibles.com/shop.php?sec=prod&prod=90 (http://www.ktc-edibles.com/shop.php?sec=prod&prod=90)

This is the stuff he used,regular coconut block,just cut a bit off really.Not sure what you mean about coconut oil,it's just a solid,hard block,there's no oil,at least there's not in this brand which is the one I usually use myself.

Nearly every block of KTC coconut cream I've bought has been separated into cream and oil, maybe it's a function of the way it's stored during the supply chain, or maybe you just haven't noticed that the end part of your block is crumbly and a different colour. Well anyway it's not important I suppose, only that potentially your BIR might be deliberately adding one or other part of the block for some reason.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on August 02, 2014, 06:02 PM
Never noticed that before,always had mine in the fridge.I'll ask next time I'm in the takeaway but I'm sure even they haven't noticed there's a difference.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: haldi on August 03, 2014, 06:29 AM
I completely mucked it up
I have no idea how
I made a basic curry and it didn't taste as good as the base
It just goes to show how important technique is
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on August 03, 2014, 08:46 AM
Full credit to you haldi many of us myself included would blame the base, your 100% nail on the head technique and timing are everything IMO.
Doesn't it Suck so bad when we get it wrong !!
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on August 03, 2014, 11:47 AM
So people can see what we mean about the oil in the coconut block here's a pic I took of my Heera brand block...the oil is the obvious white bit on the left. If you taste it it lacks any coconut flavour, it's just solidified oil.

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/51c874940f50417bc0a72e5c922dd465.JPG)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: noble ox on August 03, 2014, 11:57 AM
Hi
All some are still struggling with the techniques for spice cooking 
I will post some notes on method and start a new thread where to post as this is jbs thread
any ideas?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on August 03, 2014, 12:00 PM
...you just haven't noticed that the end part of your block is crumbly and a different colour. Well anyway it's not important I suppose...

It would certainly be important if the person thought they were adding coconut block and in fact were just adding the oil...the oil barely has any coconut flavour at all.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Donald Brasco on August 03, 2014, 12:06 PM
Yeah I guess so. Well it never hurts for us to learn more about our ingredients anyway
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: mickdabass on August 03, 2014, 06:57 PM
Just made a basic curry from the full base recipie. I added enough water to bring the final volume up to 6 litres. I used the ratio of 1 chefs spoon= 4 tablespoons.

 I used 3 cloves of garlic for the final tarka.
Must admit I was very sceptical when I first added the tarka to the base.
Did not smell at all bir to me....
After about an hour of simmering though (when I finally got some oil separation) I noticed that the bir smell did return.
The resultant curry I made was top notch and also brought me a step closer to achieving my own personal goal.

My conclusion is that the garlic tarka deffo adds another layer of flavour to the finished curry and is something I will incorporate in all my future curries. I would try increasing the garlic to 4 or 5 cloves next time.
Still lacking that underlying savouriness I (used to) get from old school birs. Perhaps upping the garlic will change that??

All in all though just wanted to thank Jb again for putting in the time and effort to publish his findings and share with us all in true cr0 spirit without all this commercialised  e-book (moderated)
Is this forum dying?......I think thats a unanimous NO!

Regards

Mick
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on August 03, 2014, 07:44 PM
My conclusion is that the garlic tarka deffo adds another layer of flavour to the finished curry and is something I will incorporate in all my future curries. I would try increasing the garlic to 4 or 5 cloves next time.
Still lacking that underlying savouriness I (used to) get from old school birs. Perhaps upping the garlic will change that??

Mick that mirrors my feelings exactly. Although I haven't tried it with jb's base yet I really doubt that my view will change as the long onion cook, reboiling etc. is something I already do - but I do intend to make jb's base just in case!  ;D

Oh and btw "Perhaps upping the garlic will change that?"...I very much doubt it.  :-\
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on August 03, 2014, 09:59 PM
SS thanks for posting the coconut oil photo, it's great to learn a new trick and this was new to me!
Many thanks.

For the sceptics in us all, this base can achieve BIR TA quality curry, but so can a few other great base Garvey's in the base section.
Jb's base for me is excellent and the taste matches my BIR or betters it! I will be using this ongoing until we discover another level or another step up the ladder in our search :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on August 03, 2014, 10:14 PM
Just made a curry again tonight ( no nagas though) but  a madras, this base again worked beautifully and the final curry was again top drawer, best base I have used  :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: mickdabass on August 03, 2014, 11:12 PM
I must agree with you MA it's given me (albeit after making only one curry) my best results so far. Like you SS I have been cooking the onions for several hours for a long time too - so much so that I recently decided that it was probably the cause of why my curries were too sweet. The fried garlic though cuts through the sweetness in a way that the savoury undertones of old used to. I can only describe as " toasty savoury moorishness"  :o ::) ???
I still think that its worth exploring the amount of garlic used in the final targa.
It always made me question BIR information when Abdul Mohed upgraded his basic gravy to the far superior enhanced version. The chefs are holding back some key information of which I think the garlic tarka is one. You could argue that it is both a secret ingredient and a special technique I suppose. Not saying there's any kind of conspiracy theory or anything lol. Just protecting their livelihood. Can't blame em for that.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: ckchao on August 03, 2014, 11:45 PM
If everyone agree the base must contain certain aroma related onion-garlic flavour, why would not you try ASAFETIDA powder with the final tarka instead of garlic cloves. Use tarka oil to dissolve it to get off the smell, not the watery base, please! no secret!

Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: noble ox on August 04, 2014, 08:04 AM
ckchao ;D
That's an interesting idea When I cook dahl I experiment with different tarkas in the final stage
Asofoetida (hing ) gives some good Bir aromas but use the proper stuff its a resin not unlike amber or hard toffee it needs to be grated before use
the powdered stuff is full of additives and crap
Also a good way to find the garlic levels and not ruin any bases
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: JerryM on August 05, 2014, 05:57 AM
From the sidelines much appreciate mickdabass report who I trust.

Comment on sweetness and the tarka very helpful.

I won't help and not being negative as I love the tarka effect. I have tasted 2 off BIR base and neither had tarka taste.

It's clearly part of the jigsaw though.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: chrisbr on August 05, 2014, 06:21 PM
I'm going to be making this base this weekend and have a few questions for those who have already made it.

How many litres does this make based on JBs measurements?
During first stage, do you add enough water to just cover the onions?
How much water did you add to thin it?
Recipe says 1/4 block of coconut, any ideas how many grams as block size can vary?

Thanks
Chris
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: gazman1976 on August 05, 2014, 08:18 PM
when diluted I got 7 litres out of it - just diluted at the end until a thin watery soup

Yes

I just guessed that - made until consistency of a thin soup

quarter of a standard block of coconut is what I used - I used pride
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Zap on August 05, 2014, 09:07 PM
Recipe says 1/4 block of coconut, any ideas how many grams as block size can vary?

When making the Massala Paste I researched this a bit.  All the standard ones seem to be 200g, so it would be about 50g.

I haven't made the base yet but am looking forward to trying it.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on August 07, 2014, 08:28 PM
My conclusion is that the garlic tarka deffo adds another layer of flavour to the finished curry and is something I will incorporate in all my future curries. I would try increasing the garlic to 4 or 5 cloves next time.
Still lacking that underlying savouriness I (used to) get from old school birs. Perhaps upping the garlic will change that??

Mick that mirrors my feelings exactly. Although I haven't tried it with jb's base yet I really doubt that my view will change as the long onion cook, reboiling etc. is something I already do - but I do intend to make jb's base just in case!  ;D

Oh and btw "Perhaps upping the garlic will change that?"...I very much doubt it.  :-\

Well I've just finished a madras made with this base and it does make a pretty good curry at least on a par with what I usually make. But it still didn't blow me away. The Garlic tarka comes through very subtlely but I used a good bit more than jb initially suggested and I'll definitely be keeping this as one piece of the puzzle for me.

It's a base I'd recommend anyone to have a go at but I reckon regional differences may lead to some disappointment.

Still looking forward to any more info that jb can get from them though.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Bengali Bob on August 09, 2014, 10:16 AM
Great work jb!  Loving the garlic tarka idea.  Did you by any chance find out how their chicken is pre-cooked?  Your chicken curry looks stunning. Proper.

Rob  :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: chrisbr on August 09, 2014, 10:20 AM
Made this base last night and finished off this morning.  I think I should have boiled for longer as the onions weren't as milky as I think they should have been but after 3 hrs I thought it was enough.

Blended, added water and brought back to heat this morning and added the tarka.  Smell was great but I didn't get the sizzle when adding the base to pan so next time next to heat garlic on hotter flame (I used low as didn't want to burn garlic).

Simmered for about an hour with quite a bit of oil on the top.  Smell of this base is more sweeter and toasty/nutty than usual base (curry2go) and thinner.  Tasted sweeter than c2g base too.

Can't wait to try curry with it but won't be this weekend  ;D


Thanks jb for posting this.


Chris
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: ckchao on August 09, 2014, 08:28 PM
Hi JB
How do you reckon this base gravy compared with Little India Base?
cheers
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Donald Brasco on August 10, 2014, 09:57 AM

Finally take another pan,add a chef's spoon of oil and add a very finely chopped garlic clove and brown it.Tip this into the gravy(rinse the garlic pan out with a spoon of gravy).This seemed to give the gravy a fantastic smokey like flavour.Simmer the sauce for about half an hour and the oil should begin to rise.


JB, is the base gravy blended after the addition of the garlic, or does the garlic just stay there in small pieces which show up in the customer's final dish? If the latter, I guess it's pot luck how much garlic makes its way into each dish cooked, depending how much gravy is left in the pot when you order.

Finally, in the photo you posted (duplicated below), is the sliced garlic floating on top of the tikka masala added during the making of that dish, or has it come from the base gravy? Is it definately finely chopped garlic, not finely sliced garlic which is added to the base?

One last thing:
3 kilo white onions(any sort,they chop them so it cooks quicker and it doesn't affect the taste)
They slice them so they cook quicker, then they cook them for a total of 3hrs??  Can you ask next time you're there how much longer they think it would take to cook the base if the onions were left whole?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on August 10, 2014, 11:58 AM
JB, is the base gravy blended after the addition of the garlic, or does the garlic just stay there in small pieces which show up in the customer's final dish? If the latter, I guess it's pot luck how much garlic makes its way into each dish cooked, depending how much gravy is left in the pot when you order.

 Is it definately finely chopped garlic, not finely sliced garlic which is added to the base?


Already been answered

Is the base meant to be blended again after adding the garlic tarka?
 

No not meant to be blended again,the garlic should be quite fine,

Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Donald Brasco on August 10, 2014, 12:42 PM
Ah so in that case the garlic shown on top of the tikka masala must be added when cooking that dish. I've never seen this on a tikka masala personally, which makes me think that a fried garlic tarka might be a signature flavour of this particular BIR's chef. As such I doubt the addition of fried garlic to the base is as ubiquitous as some maybe are assuming, it's just the way this chef (and no doubt some others) does it, but it's not going to be a pre-requisite for cooking BIR base gravy.  More likely this base sauce hangs together well just because the onions and spices are cooked correctly. 3 hours of cooking will tend to make sure all the flavours are fully developed, non?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: chewytikka on August 10, 2014, 12:55 PM
Hi DB
If you look closer at the photo.
Looks more like Almond flakes and Sultanas, a typical garnish for creamy curries. ;)

cheers Chewy
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on August 10, 2014, 12:56 PM
Hi DB I'm sure Jb can correct me if I'm wrong but it looks to me like almond flakes and raisins on top to the Tikka Masala!

Jb can u help?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on August 10, 2014, 12:58 PM
Lol, bang on same time posting that reply Chewy!! ;D you just beat me to it :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on August 10, 2014, 01:06 PM
Snap !!  ;D Looks like Almond flakes and Raisons/Sultanas to me too DB   (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/0ca68fc0adabb84458058d408c1f8e18.jpg)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on August 10, 2014, 01:42 PM
Just taken my last portion out to de-frost, so base cooking one night this week.
Hope it tastes as good again as I will have to use different onions this time.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on August 10, 2014, 01:59 PM
Hi MA I also used my last portion last night, but that was my second batch of base :) I used a fresh Jb base for cooking for 20!

I can also confirm for me the unfrozen fresh base was far superior in the finished 20 portions. It's such a shame we have no option but to freeze base sauce!

Thanks.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Donald Brasco on August 10, 2014, 02:09 PM
I've just looked at that photo again and it looks like almond flakes and sultanas on top - just thought I'd correct myself before anyone else mentioned it....   ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on August 10, 2014, 02:10 PM
I will be making the base Friday, it will then be fresh for my guests on Saturday, not that I have ever noticed any discernible differences between the base when fresh and the frozen base
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: chewytikka on August 10, 2014, 02:23 PM
Lol  ;D ;D Parrots in the house ;D ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on August 10, 2014, 02:30 PM
It will be good to have your input,thoughts and photos after catering for your guests Andy! Good luck with all the prep ;D


Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on August 10, 2014, 04:04 PM
Is it definitely finely chopped garlic, not finely sliced garlic which is added to the base?

Already been answered

"Yes" or "No" would have been two words shorter and infinitely more informative.
** Phil.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on August 10, 2014, 04:21 PM
Yes  :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Dajoca on August 11, 2014, 03:19 PM
If I'm reading the recipe and Jb's replies correctly.

The base can be left as is after it's initial blending, (so it can be frozen at this point?)

The base dilution and garlic tarka are not necessarily done to the whole base, but are done before cooking the final dishes, so 1 garlic clove is used for a smaller amount of base rather than the whole batch as it first read.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: chewytikka on August 11, 2014, 04:23 PM
If I'm reading the recipe and Jb's replies correctly.

Nope, Maybe reading it again from the beginning, will help you;)

cheers chewy
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Dajoca on August 11, 2014, 06:13 PM
Well that's still what i'm taking away from it after reading it again...

"The chef then explained that in the takeaway they leave the gravy like this(it's quite thick) and then add water to thin when they need it.It should be very thin,like watery soup.However when it hits the hot pan it will thicken.Finally take another pan,add a chef's spoon of oil and add a very finely chopped garlic clove and brown it.Tip this into the gravy(rinse the garlic pan out with a spoon of gravy).This seemed to give the gravy a fantastic smokey like flavour.Simmer the sauce for about half an hour and the oil should begin to rise."

Then

"I only diluted about a third of my gravy(the rest is in the freezer) and added one clove of garlic.I'll have to ask next time but maybe if you dilute the whole 3 kilo's worth of base then you do have to add more garlic,say three or four,I honestly don't know.If you do have to add more than maybe the BIR smell could even be more intense."
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on August 11, 2014, 06:44 PM
"The chef then explained that in the takeaway they leave the gravy like this(it's quite thick) and then add water to thin when they need it.

Yes but this is restaurant quantities. So they make a huge pan of the base..leave it overnight possibly...then next day pour some of it into another pan (when they need it), dilute, add tarka, boil. I found the oil release is exceptional on this base because of the added water to dilute.

Gotta be honest though...i have no idea why ppl think this is in any way a superior base. It's very much bog standard...jb no offence mate, just the way it is for me.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on August 11, 2014, 06:47 PM
If I'm reading the recipe and Jb's replies correctly.

Nope, Maybe reading it again from the beginning, will help you;)

cheers chewy

Or you could elaborate a little and help the fella out.  ::)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Garp on August 11, 2014, 06:52 PM
Agreed - help us all out, cos this whole base is confused.com
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Dajoca on August 11, 2014, 07:00 PM
Cheers SS. That makes perfect sense regarding the volumes of take away bases.

Jb said he'd frozen 2/3rds of his (3kg's?) base and others who had tried it were opining that 1 clove was probably not enough for the whole batch (which is how the recipe first read to me).

Even re-reading it I still see no reason why the remainder of the concentrated base could not be frozen after the initial blend (saving space) and when ready for a few days use, several portions are unfrozen, diluted, the tarka added, simmered and is then ready for use.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on August 11, 2014, 07:04 PM
Even re-reading it I still see no reason why the remainder of the concentrated base could not be frozen after the initial blend (saving space) and when ready for a few days use, several portions are unfrozen, diluted, the tarka added, simmered and are then ready for use.

By far the better way to do it..at home. Although I wonder if there would be much difference in freezing it unblended and then blending, dluting etc. after?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on August 11, 2014, 07:19 PM
Jb said he'd frozen 2/3rds of his (3kg's?) base and others who had tried it were opining that 1 clove was probably not enough for the whole batch (which is how the recipe first read to me).

I think jb realised that his initial quantities were wrong based on forgetting that he'd frozen 2/3rds of the base.
I go well above that to achieve an effect that I consider worth using. At least one garlic clove per portion. That's finely chopped and fried until it's almost burnt, but not actually burnt. It's fairly easy to tell as apart from the obvious colour change the garlic gets all sticky and clumpy. The need for a swill out of the pan with some base is entirely unnecessary, in my opinion. There is no residue to deglaze...perhaps jb can enlighten us as to that.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on August 12, 2014, 04:04 PM
Jb I'm just finishing up making my third 3kg batch of this base ;) I just don't know we're it's going!!!
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on August 12, 2014, 07:30 PM
Hi all I had time to make two pots of Jb's base today, we are having guests over at the weekend so I need base sauce for cooking.

For the first batch I used my new aluminium pan, and for the second batch I knocked up the 3kG base in a pressure cooker.

I have been tasting both bases this evening, I wanted to see if there was a difference in the cooking method! ;)

The aluminium pan was a tasty batch of base, I used 5 cloves of garlic for the Tarka then simmered for 30 mins till oil rises.

The second batch was in my pressure cooker! It cut the cooking time down to 1 hour15 instead of 3 hrs. Then I added spice,coconut,toms and salt cooked at pressure for another 15 mins.
I sieved this base! Also then added the 5 cloves of garlic Tarka to the gravy.

Simmered for 30 mins in pan till oil rises, this base was just as good as the other if I go with my first impression the pressure cooked version tasted even better!!

So conclusion for anyone cooking Jb's  base, it can also be cooked to perfection in a pressure cooker with no loss of flavour and much time,energy saved.

Thanks :)

Photo Pressure Cooked Base 3kg onions.
 
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on August 12, 2014, 08:39 PM
lc what onions have you tried in making this base? The ones I used where British tennis ball sized and the only type they sell in big sacks in the Indian shops.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on August 12, 2014, 08:53 PM
Hi MA I usually buy Aldi large onions as they are always spot on. But today I got a 25kg net from our market guy for a couple of pound  8)
They're smaller and he said new onions!! Whatever that is, but there is little difference in the taste base wise.
I believe Jb did tell us the manager said any white onions are good to go!

What's your opinion?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on August 12, 2014, 09:03 PM
I normally use the supermarket larger onions, 3 in a pack (mostly these are spanish or dutch), but for jb base I used tennisball english bought in large sack from Indian store. They werent as strong as the ones that make you cry, but they were not overly weak either. Did these improve the base? I dont think I can get to the Indian store this week so I will be using the supermarket ones instead
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Tabs on August 13, 2014, 01:23 AM
My stages of JBS base , pan only just holds the first bulk so
had to split into thirds and then Tarka :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Tabs on August 13, 2014, 01:32 AM
For the tarka i assumed JBs chef spoon was 4 tablespoon size, i only have a two so it
was two of my spoons of veg oil and one garlic clove per third of base. o ye and a baby wok for six pound from tesco to make it lol :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Tabs on August 13, 2014, 01:36 AM
PPS: added 300 ml of water to each third,hope it works out for you :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Unclefrank on August 14, 2014, 01:56 PM
JB could you edit the recipe on the first page please because after wading through these pages only to find that the tarka has to be added after the base has been diluted, also how many cloves of garlic are added?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Onions on August 14, 2014, 02:04 PM
Excellent idea, as this somewhat epic thread has a wee update every couple of pages, hein?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on August 15, 2014, 09:34 PM
JB could you edit the recipe on the first page please because after wading through these pages only to find that the tarka has to be added after the base has been diluted, also how many cloves of garlic are added?

Hi Guys,sorry I've been on a caravan holiday all week.I had a takeaway about 2 minutes' walk away.....I couldn't resist it...ended up in there four nights in a row.They had their sacks of onions behind the counter,it was funny I was trying to get a good look at them they thought it was quite amusing!!!

Trying to catch up on anything I've missed.Definetely not garlic on the tikka massala,just a garnish of almond flakes and sultanas which is common down here in Essex.Will try to get back in the takeaway next week and ask some more questions.Not sure why some are finding the base so confusing.I though my initial description was pretty accurate,the only glitch was the amount of garlic added for the tarka.I just forgot that the chef didn't blend the whole base and only and added 1 clove of garlic,I'm guessing four or five will be ok for the whole base but I will check next time.It does say in my first post that the base is blended/watered down and then the tarka is added.Any questions and I will glady try and answer them.


''Then add 1/4 chef spoon turmeric,tiny amount of chilli powder,1/4 chef spoon cumin powder,1/4 chef spoon corriander powder,1 chef spoon  blended tomatoes.Re-cover and then turn the flame down(so the bottom doesn't catch )and cook for another half an hour,then blend until smooth.''

I actually got into another kitchen the day before I went on holiday.I do a spot of DJ'ing in my spare time,last Saturday I was in a restaurant I DJ regularly,the Manager invited me into the kitchen and meet his staff.He's aware of my cooking skills and invited me back any time I want to help his chefs out.The tandoori chef put me on the spot and asked me to cook a naan bread for them,there was about a dozen staff in the kitchen...all looking at me!!!
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on August 15, 2014, 10:05 PM
DJ jb how did your nan turn out? Hope you didnt burn your hands
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: london on August 15, 2014, 10:17 PM
Being a DJ did you make the nan from scratch wikki wikki wikki. :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on August 15, 2014, 11:45 PM
Hope you used a good mix for that Naan jb ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Unclefrank on August 16, 2014, 08:50 PM
Well JB all i can say is that this base is fantastic, the smell, the taste even the texture is excellent. I will be cooking a lot of dishes with this base.
Thanks JB for posting this recipe i am a very happy chappy.
Bombay Aloo using  base
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/a305fc347b2d4b99d1f29fd533965e21.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#a305fc347b2d4b99d1f29fd533965e21.JPG)

Garlic Chilli Chicken
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/29d13246c0bbfb168c4e22c2ae204c23.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#29d13246c0bbfb168c4e22c2ae204c23.JPG)

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/696756b83f76590a81d3eff3b1f8591f.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#696756b83f76590a81d3eff3b1f8591f.JPG)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Onions on August 16, 2014, 09:01 PM
Wish we could smell photos :D nice!
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on August 16, 2014, 09:07 PM
Looking tasty  ;)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on August 17, 2014, 07:24 AM
Nice looking dishes UF, great to see more people having success with this base  :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on August 17, 2014, 08:00 AM
Looking good to me I must say.Glad you're happy with the base.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: noble ox on August 17, 2014, 01:22 PM
UF :D
Pleased you like this base
The 2nd batch I done had 8 cloves in the tarka and tasted even better
But I am an Ox when using garlic
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Onions on August 17, 2014, 03:56 PM
But a noble one, eh!

Yeah I'm gonna ladle in the garlic too :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Garabi Army on August 20, 2014, 08:23 PM
JB, thanks’ for this base recipe, absolutely spot on. I had my doubts, especially on the chef spoon measurements (I always thought a chef spoon was 3 tablespoons  ???) but I stuck with it. I used 6 medium garlic cloves for the tarka (I think you need to be brave to get the garlic to just the right colour before it burns).  No cabbage?!!  :o (I'm not disappointed)
I made the base at the weekend but it wasn't until today I made a curry with it. I knocked up CT's madras (with prawns); I was blown away mate.  I don't want to go over the top but it took me back to the late 70's, the flavours coming through were amazing. The garlic tarka plays a big part but also the inclusion of coconut. 
I'm convinced this is more about regional tastes, I'm originally from SE London and this is how I remember curries.
Of course, my eureka moment could be because ‘I had a blinder on the night’ but I usually knock up a decent curry. This base is definitely a keeper.
Many thanks,
Ken  :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on August 21, 2014, 07:26 PM
JB, thanks’ for this base recipe, absolutely spot on. I had my doubts, especially on the chef spoon measurements (I always thought a chef spoon was 3 tablespoons  ???) but I stuck with it. I used 6 medium garlic cloves for the tarka (I think you need to be brave to get the garlic to just the right colour before it burns).  No cabbage?!!  :o (I'm not disappointed)
I made the base at the weekend but it wasn't until today I made a curry with it. I knocked up CT's madras (with prawns); I was blown away mate.  I don't want to go over the top but it took me back to the late 70's, the flavours coming through were amazing. The garlic tarka plays a big part but also the inclusion of coconut. 
I'm convinced this is more about regional tastes, I'm originally from SE London and this is how I remember curries.
Of course, my eureka moment could be because ‘I had a blinder on the night’ but I usually knock up a decent curry. This base is definitely a keeper.
Many thanks,
Ken  :)

My pleasure,I'm glad you(and others) have had some success in using my base gravy.I reckon six garlic cloves are about right.If it does indeed remind you of curries of the 70's then I'm well chuffed.

I've still got my gravy in my freezer ready for my next curry feast,hopefully I'' be able to rattle my pans soon.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Donald Brasco on August 21, 2014, 07:31 PM
Can I check, are we saying 6 cloves of garlic for 3kg of onions, so if I worked with 1.5kg onions then 3 cloves would be right? Are the garlic cloves chopped or sliced before frying?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on August 21, 2014, 07:51 PM
Are the garlic cloves chopped or sliced before frying?
Page 1 Don in the recipe itself :o
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: madpower on August 22, 2014, 03:44 AM
i wish they had told JB the secret of how they get the bir taste into it as well that would of been good,other wise it is just more boiled blended veg and a selection of spices pulled out of a hat that you make a ok curry but a million miles away from being a bir,you must no this before you start to cook that there is going to be something missing from what you have been told so that is why i rarely visit the TAs and restaraunts in my area because they seem to get a kick from making a fool out of you,i asked a chef in my nearest  TA to show me how to make a curry once he said you buy a curry and i will show you,he showed me the final dish i was having then said buy one tomorrow i will show you  how to make base so i went in he said make order i tell you which i did and he said boil lots of onion garlic ginger for 1 hour had turmeric and chillie powder and oil blend and its done,so there was a balti bowl of bombay mix on the counter so i chucked it all over him as i was leaving,they stooped that low for a tenner.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Donald Brasco on August 22, 2014, 06:48 AM
Are the garlic cloves chopped or sliced before frying?
Page 1 Don in the recipe itself :o

Yes it says finely chopped - I wanted to check that with the author of the recipe because I know how easy it is to write one thing and mean something different. 6 cloves of finely chopped garlic seems like a lot to me, but WTHDIK.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: commis on August 22, 2014, 07:15 AM
Hi
MP. Are you saying that you have cooked the JB base to speck. Then cooked a recipe to spec the same as other members but tastes nothing like a BIR curry ?
Regards
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Naga on August 22, 2014, 08:40 AM
I made this base last night - half quantity (1.5kg onions) and 3 large cloves of garlic for the tarka, but otherwise to spec. It yielded 6 x 300g portions, each of which will probably take a further 150g water to achieve my usual double portion of base at the required consistency.

This base is completely different to any I have made previously (CA, Abdul Mohed, ChewyTikka, Zaal, Mouchak, Mick Crawford, my own and probably a few others I've forgotten) but its a sort of good different, if that makes any sense.

The undiluted base is very smooth on the palate (probably due to the coconut block) but the interesting thing for me is that I can't pin down any specific flavours. But it tastes good - very good!

I'll be making a curry with the base tonight. I haven't decided what it's going to be yet, but it'll be interesting to see how it turns out. Maybe Chewy's Madras will fit the bill, or maybe his Rezala which has more complex flavours.

It won't be bad, I'm sure of that, but I was interested to see Garabi Army say that it was reminscent of SE London curries so its unlikely to taste anything that I've previously been accustomed to.

Looking forward to it, anyway! Update to follow.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on August 22, 2014, 10:21 AM
Madpower, the fishing's not so good here!
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Onions on August 22, 2014, 10:34 AM
i wish they had told JB the secret of how they get the bir taste into it as well that would of been good,other wise it is just more boiled blended veg and a selection of spices pulled out of a hat that you make a ok curry but a million miles away from being a bir,you must no this before you start to cook that there is going to be something missing from what you have been told so that is why i rarely visit the TAs and restaraunts in my area because they seem to get a kick from making a fool out of you,i asked a chef in my nearest  TA to show me how to make a curry once he said you buy a curry and i will show you,he showed me the final dish i was having then said buy one tomorrow i will show you  how to make base so i went in he said make order i tell you which i did and he said boil lots of onion garlic ginger for 1 hour had turmeric and chillie powder and oil blend and its done,so there was a balti bowl of bombay mix on the counter so i chucked it all over him as i was leaving,they stooped that low for a tenner.

A testament to your people skills eh!!! :D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: curryhell on August 22, 2014, 10:50 AM
Looking forward to your report Naga. I'm sure it'll be worth reading unlike one or two comments in this thread   ::)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Onions on August 22, 2014, 11:54 AM
Madpower, the fishing's not so good here!

:D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on August 22, 2014, 01:25 PM
i rarely visit the TAs and restaraunts in my area because they seem to get a kick from making a fool out of you
I dont think you need to visit them for that result

Quote
so there was a balti bowl of bombay mix on the counter so i chucked it all over him as i was leaving
Well done big man , hope you was proud of yourself

Haha there are some simpletons around  ;)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: commis on August 22, 2014, 02:09 PM
Hi
Did anyone notice the post was at 3:44 am. Or do I have in the words of Elvis a suspicious mind ?
Regards
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on August 22, 2014, 02:15 PM
I was interested to see Garabi Army say that it was reminscent of SE London curries so its unlikely to taste anything that I've previously been accustomed to.

Looking forward to it, anyway! Update to follow.

I live in Hull and this base tastes just like the ones I get from the Restaurants around here,
 I would stick to the Madras rather than a more complex curry Naga, as you will get a better answer to whether you like the base or not. Look forward to your results , hope you have as much success as I and others have had.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Onions on August 22, 2014, 02:25 PM
Hi
Did anyone notice the post was at 3:44 am. Or do I have in the words of Elvis a suspicious mind ?
Regards

Ha ha! Commis you think maybe he should take a little water with it....?! ;) :D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Naga on August 22, 2014, 08:36 PM
Well, I did Chewy's Rezala using JB's Base tonight.

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/04ee45e27e7736cbeab5a8ddb3eafff2.JPG)

It was good. Different. But good.

I think the first thing that struck me most was the smoothness of the curry on the palate. It was the same sensation I experienced when I tasted the base on its own, so I'm putting that down to the inclusion of the coconut block as I mentioned earlier in the thread.

The second thing was that the curry wasn't recognisable as anything similar I've been used to, having eaten curries across Scotland for more years than I care to remember. I mean, obviously it was a curry, but just, well, different.

It was certainly better than many curries I've had the misfortune of eating, and way better than any restaurant/takeaway curry I've had in the past 10 years. But the difference to my usual fare was stark.

I don't look for that "missing 5%" in my curries. I'm more than happy to produce better curries in my own kitchen than I can buy commercially and I've been in that place for a couple of years now, thanks to CRO and its brilliant contributors.

I've got another 5 portions of this base and it'll definitely get used up before I make more base, so some more curries to look forward to, but I'll probably go back to one of my more favoured bases.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Garp on August 22, 2014, 09:05 PM
way better than any restaurant/takeaway curry I've had in the past 10 years.

You must be going to the wrong restaurants bud.

Looks nice though. As someone else said recently, ever think of adding some fresh coriander?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Garp on August 22, 2014, 09:12 PM
i wish they had told JB the secret of how they get the bir taste into it as well that would of been good,other wise it is just more boiled blended veg and a selection of spices pulled out of a hat that you make a ok curry but a million miles away from being a bir,you must no this before you start to cook that there is going to be something missing from what you have been told so that is why i rarely visit the TAs and restaraunts in my area because they seem to get a kick from making a fool out of you,i asked a chef in my nearest  TA to show me how to make a curry once he said you buy a curry and i will show you,he showed me the final dish i was having then said buy one tomorrow i will show you  how to make base so i went in he said make order i tell you which i did and he said boil lots of onion garlic ginger for 1 hour had turmeric and chillie powder and oil blend and its done,so there was a balti bowl of bombay mix on the counter so i chucked it all over him as i was leaving,they stooped that low for a tenner.

And they say the beauty of the English language is dying - well done Michael Gove.....
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: RingStinger on August 22, 2014, 09:45 PM
way better than any restaurant/takeaway curry I've had in the past 10 years.

You must be going to the wrong restaurants bud.

Looks nice though. As someone else said recently, ever think of adding some fresh coriander?

Hi Garp and all

I have been searching for this allusive "taste" for more than 20 years.  It has got to the point where I don't even know what the "taste" is anymore!  All I do know, is whenever we go out for a curry in Oxford these days, we are very disappointed that it is not as good as what we cook at home...

I have recently tried JB's base and, I have to say, it is very interesting.  To taste, it is very bland BUT, it does taste REALLY good-I kept on sticking my finger in for more  :)

I have cooked a few curries with this base: CTM-went down well, but it always does.  I use Julian's Masala Sauce recipe for this; also a Chicken Bhuna and Jalfrezi-both were good, but very rich-I suppose this is down to the coconut block in the recipe.  Also a Dhansak, which I thought was a bit too garlicky as I also put garlic into my lentils.  I split the original batch of base into three portions and have been thawing it out and adding one to two cloves of garlic as a tarka. 

Keep up the good work JB.  Thanks for posting this!

Cheers

Nick
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Garp on August 22, 2014, 09:51 PM
Welcome Ringstinger (nice nick).

You sound like you know what you're talking about so please feel free to contribute more :)

I haven't made JB's base, and probably won't as I'm happy with mine; but blandness is good in a base, in my opinion. You can then use it for many dishes.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: RingStinger on August 22, 2014, 10:24 PM
Well, I did Chewy's Rezala using JB's Base tonight.

Looks amazing.  Shame I had Fish and Chips tonight...
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: commis on August 22, 2014, 11:29 PM
Hi
I've looked through JB's posts on this, his posts on the visit and the sauce. Can anyone please tell me which part of the UK this base is from.
Regards
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on August 22, 2014, 11:48 PM
Wow one shift at work and I missed like 15 posts!! I need a life ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: curryhell on August 23, 2014, 01:19 AM
Can anyone please tell me which part of the UK this base is from.
Regards
Just in case jb doesn't log on in the next few hours or so, we're talking about the South East of England.  Essex in fact. And to be more specific without naming the establishment, it's within a 6 mile radius of the dartford crossing.
Is that specific enough for you commis?? ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: commis on August 23, 2014, 02:27 AM
Hi
Curryhell. Yes I do I have friends involved in the Leaside wood recycling project down there so thanks very much. And that (edited) tunnel always has road works on a Sunday night when I'm coming back from mainland Europe.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on August 23, 2014, 10:14 AM
Hi naga,
 Which is your favoured base?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on August 23, 2014, 10:16 AM
I kept on sticking my finger in for more  :)
Hope it was clean, I tend to use a spoon
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Naga on August 23, 2014, 11:54 AM
Hi naga,
 Which is your favoured base?

For the last 8 months or so, my own - it's my take based on a number of gravies I've used in the past, but follows the general theme of onion gravy, baghaar and dilution.

I'm thinking of going back to Abdul Mohed's enhanced base gravy for old times sake as I really enjoyed it near the beginning of my BIR curry journey, but I haven't made up my mind yet. To be honest, I can't really remember what it was like, only that I thought it was good at the time.

Anyway, I've still 5 portions of JB's base left and, although I said it was different to what I was used to, I also said it was good. Besides, my good lady wife was telling me only this morning how much she enjoyed the curry with JB's base last night, so my mind may have already been made up for me! :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on August 23, 2014, 11:58 AM
cheers naga, the more I have used jb base the more I like it and the feedback I have been getting from the resultant curries is really good  :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on August 26, 2014, 01:24 PM
Hi Jb, I have just made my 5th batch of your gravy. For anyone interested in making the gravy stay with it coz the more I have made it the closer I get to my end goal.

There is some very important steps in cooking the gravy, one I feel is heat! I'm cooking the base on a wok burner high flame until the simmer.
This melts everything and leaves no detectable boiled taste to the onions. Not saying you can't slow simmer just stating my preference.

Second is the garlic Tarka, adding liquid of the top of the base sends it in to a crazy Sizzle and a wonderful aroma you just know is right. This also stops the browning of gthe garlic in its tracks, as to brown and it's burnt, it's quite a fine line I find.
I have been soaking my garlic slices in water, then squeezing them out before adding to the oil. This slows the browning down and gives a better tatse for me, as the garlic is now not getting burnt and gives me more controle on the browning.
It also seems to prevented the garlic becoming sticky for me.

The end resulting gravy leaves me needing to only add a very little spice in the curry stage, this is due to the gravy being 90% of the finished result IMO.

korma needs no oil added with Jb's base just everything straight to pan and stir, perfect korma results in moments using preecooked meat.

Madras is needing oil or gee, less than a teaspoon of mix powder small methi,tomato paste and chilli powder dast of tamarind sauce and I'm there in moments. Also preecooked meat!

Jb I hope you can update the forum soon, if you can provide more inside information it will be greatly received I'm sure.

Regards.




Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on August 26, 2014, 10:14 PM
Hi Jb, I have just made my 5th batch of your gravy. For anyone interested in making the gravy stay with it coz the more I have made it the closer I get to my end goal.

There is some very important steps in cooking the gravy, one I feel is heat! I'm cooking the base on a wok burner high flame until the simmer.
This melts everything and leaves no detectable boiled taste to the onions. Not saying you can't slow simmer just stating my preference.

Second is the garlic Tarka, adding liquid of the top of the base sends it in to a crazy Sizzle and a wonderful aroma you just know is right. This also stops the browning of gthe garlic in its tracks, as to brown and it's burnt, it's quite a fine line I find.
I have been soaking my garlic slices in water, then squeezing them out before adding to the oil. This slows the browning down and gives a better tatse for me, as the garlic is now not getting burnt and gives me more controle on the browning.
It also seems to prevented the garlic becoming sticky for me.

The end resulting gravy leaves me needing to only add a very little spice in the curry stage, this is due to the gravy being 90% of the finished result IMO.

korma needs no oil added with Jb's base just everything straight to pan and stir, perfect korma results in moments using preecooked meat.

Madras is needing oil or gee, less than a teaspoon of mix powder small methi,tomato paste and chilli powder dast of tamarind sauce and I'm there in moments. Also preecooked meat!

Jb I hope you can update the forum soon, if you can provide more inside information it will be greatly received I'm sure.

Regards.

Glad it's working out for you,sounds like you have been very busy!!  The first stage should be cooked on  a very high heat(with lid on).The method the gravy was cooked was exactly as it's cooked in the takeaway.Not simmered,I think it's important the method is followed correctly as you won't get the same results.The same for the tarka,he rinsed the pan out for a specific reason.it makes a big difference.

I'll get back in there as soon as I can,don't worry all will be revealed!
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on August 26, 2014, 10:18 PM
Quote
I'll get back in there as soon as I can,don't worry all will be revealed!

look forward to it jb
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on August 26, 2014, 10:52 PM
Cheers for the reply JB ;)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on August 30, 2014, 08:35 AM
I took a base out of the freezer yesterday, and when I opened it later, it did not smell right, it wasnt the Jb base it was a previous base, cant remember which/who's base it was (aussie one maybe).
 Anyway it didnt smell off/bad or anything like that, it just didnt smell right, it tasted ok , like any other base really but not like Jbs base, I didnt even want to use it as I knew my curry would be disappointing compared to my recent attempts,  didnt use it :o . Still got some jb base for tonight though  ;) :) ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on September 03, 2014, 10:21 AM
Just boiling up another batch of the famous Jb base gravy  :) I will be upping the oil content in order to capture more of that BIR authenticity.
I'm Going by Jb's original madras photo that sates it had the taste,and smell! I'm guessing I'm short half a litre of oil in the base to Replicate this Madras. 8)
Keep u updated.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on September 03, 2014, 12:37 PM
Good work LC, we need Jb's madras recipe to fully appreciate this base
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Zap on September 05, 2014, 08:57 AM
Finally!  I made a batch of the base last night, it definitely had something going on during the cook process.  The flavor intensified once the tarka was added and re-boiled.  Decided I couldn't wait forever and made a Vindaloo for lunch.

It was delicious and definitely something moreish about it compared to past iterations.  I can't wait to try more dishes using this base, as I feel it adds a substance that wasn't there in some of my previous attempts.  I had already tried watering down other base I had, and that also made a difference in the cooking process and end sauce consistency/taste, but this still has something more.

I just took a taste of the sauce, cold, all this time later.  There is definitely something special here, so I look forward to making other dishes with it soon to see what else it can do.

My only regret is not having any restaurants nearby anymore to use as a taste comparison.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on September 05, 2014, 10:14 AM
Looking good zap, doing my curry cravings no good whatsoever mind!!!
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on September 05, 2014, 10:45 AM
Great update Zap, the curry looks awesome ;)

I upped the oil content on my last batch of gravy, but to be honest I think I was looking at it wrong.

A recent conversation on a post I read gave me these points.

I now realise it's the curry cooking stage itself that needs the greater amount of added oil, to little and you end up with a boiled sauce.  :-\ not tasting well at all.

The More oil and the sauce fries hot in oil, this is were the flavour develops along with the spice and garlic caramelisation.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: ziggycat on September 05, 2014, 11:38 AM
I use the standard chef spoon of oil when cooking the final dish,  how much more are you suggesting?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Zap on September 05, 2014, 07:22 PM
I now realise it's the curry cooking stage itself that needs the greater amount of added oil, to little and you end up with a boiled sauce.  :-\ not tasting well at all.

Okay, THIS screams of similarity to Chinese and stir-fry technique.  I've spent a bit of time getting that whole thing figured out within the present limitations I have (normal stove).  Especially when stir-frying meats or watery vegetables, it is easy to drop the wok temperature if too much is added at a time, and that results in the juice leaving and boiling instead of frying.  I end up doing meat in 3-4 batches with the burner cranked, since it is the most dense item as far as absorbing heat is concerned.  Before I start I preheat the wok, then preheat the oil, then begin (and meat is at room temp as well).

I believe that the ultimate key to mastering technique on home stoves is not overloading the pan AND being patient.  Too much addition at one time = temperature drop = no frying.  I actually use a small ladle for adding base (2 oz / 59 ml) for this very reason.  When I start a dish, enough oil has to be present to properly fry the ginger/garlic, spices, tomato, etc. until I am ready to add the base.  Then I also have to give enough time for the base to properly reduce and start caramelizing before each additional ladle. 

Resorting to longer cook times, and thinking things look a bit "cooked down" at times before adding additional base has helped with flavor consistency and intensity.  The final fry-down is watched most carefully with the final ladle (and finishing additions) until the sauce has reached the proper consistency.  My take is that every single reduction, with the addition of base, gets cooked down and concentrated/caramelized.  The more effectively this happens, the more punch the sauce ends up with.

When I stopped trying to emulate videos so much, I got much better results.  Now, if I had the same equipment they do in the video, then I'd have a messy/burned disaster if I tried to deviate too much from their techniques as-shown, or would be cooking on super-low flame at all times.

I find that I've really been cooking some excellent curries as of late, and this new base looks like it is going to be a further boost to them.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on September 07, 2014, 10:57 AM
Zap, I couldn't agree more with your statement above, I am finding the correct amount of oil prevents the caramelisation sticking and burning.
I am finding more oil keeps it frying, enabling you to lift the pan and shake the curry rather than scraping it off the bottom while still creating those deep taste.

What u mention about adding little gravy and reducing is the same steps I use, I then add the last ladle to really just make up the volume as the taste is already there.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Wrington on September 13, 2014, 01:07 AM
Well, I've made a base sauce before from an indian restaurant cook book, but this is the first I've made in a while and it smells and tastes fab (I could eat it on its own!). Can't wait to try out a curry to go with it!
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: ELW on September 13, 2014, 01:12 AM
welcome wrington , let us know how this goes good or bad

Regards
ELW
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: currymeariver on September 14, 2014, 09:29 PM
Possibly relevant to the onion boiled flavour and and heat discussion:

Quote
When onions and their relatives are heated, the various sulfur compounds react with each other and with other substances to produce a range of characteristic flavor molecules. The cooking method, temperature and medium strongly affect the flavor balance. Baking, drying, and microwaving tend to generate trisulfides, the characteristic notes of overcooked cabbage. Cooking at high temperatures in fat produces more volatiles and a stronger flavor than do other techniques.
via http://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/8289/why-do-onions-taste-sweeter-when-cooked-at-lower-temperature (http://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/8289/why-do-onions-taste-sweeter-when-cooked-at-lower-temperature)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Dajoca on September 14, 2014, 11:13 PM
Welcome Currymeariver.

Nice link to relevant info there and it has led me to my new word of the day.

fructooligosaccharides

Awesome.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on September 15, 2014, 06:58 AM
fructooligosaccharides
Works better for me with a hyphen :  "fructo-oligosaccharides".  The original is probably American, and the hyphen was sadly lost by the Pilgrim Fathers somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic ocean ...

** Phil.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: rshome123 on September 16, 2014, 12:11 PM
Have been meaning to give JB's base a go for ages now, and finally have the need for more base gravy, so I intend to make it this week sometime.

There is a huge number of pages on this thread, and rather than read through each post, can someone please answer some questions...

1) Onions 3kg - Is that peeled weight or unpeeled.  Probably being pedantic right ?
2) Red AND Green Pepper, or either ?
3) After adding the garlic tarka to the base, and then cooking further, the base is blended again right ?
4) I plan to use 2Kg onions, so will scale recipe down accordingly.  I'll use about 4 cloves of garlic for the tarka.  Seem right ?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: currymeariver on September 16, 2014, 06:43 PM
Welcome Currymeariver.

Thank you! :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: haldi on September 16, 2014, 06:49 PM
Have been meaning to give JB's base a go for ages now, and finally have the need for more base gravy, so I intend to make it this week sometime.

There is a huge number of pages on this thread, and rather than read through each post, can someone please answer some questions...

1) Onions 3kg - Is that peeled weight or unpeeled.  Probably being pedantic right ?
2) Red AND Green Pepper, or either ?
3) After adding the garlic tarka to the base, and then cooking further, the base is blended again right ?
4) I plan to use 2Kg onions, so will scale recipe down accordingly.  I'll use about 4 cloves of garlic for the tarka.  Seem right ?

Thanks in advance.

this is what I did
1) was unpeeled weight
2) I used red & green
3) I didn't blend again after the tarka
4) I scaled it down to half measures, and it wasn't as good.Make the full amount
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: rshome123 on September 16, 2014, 07:37 PM
Thanks Haldi.. I plan to make a 2kg base though... Have to got a big enough pot of 3. 
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on September 16, 2014, 08:15 PM
Have been meaning to give JB's base a go for ages now, and finally have the need for more base gravy, so I intend to make it this week sometime.

There is a huge number of pages on this thread, and rather than read through each post, can someone please answer some questions...

1) Onions 3kg - Is that peeled weight or unpeeled.  Probably being pedantic right ?
2) Red AND Green Pepper, or either ?
3) After adding the garlic tarka to the base, and then cooking further, the base is blended again right ?
4) I plan to use 2Kg onions, so will scale recipe down accordingly.  I'll use about 4 cloves of garlic for the tarka.  Seem right ?

Thanks in advance.

It was unpeeled onions,both a red and green pepper(they were quite small).No need to blend after adding the tarka,just simmer again for about half an hour and the tarka seems to disappear itself.Four cloves seem about right.Hope you enjoy it.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: ELW on September 16, 2014, 08:30 PM
I've made this to spec jb. It was the peppers that caught my eye rather than the tarka which ive tried before.
 Ive not had time to cook with it, but it tastes excellent. Could be one of the best I've made for a while  :)
Ill use my usual masala paste & recipes to make a few dishes.

Did they use a non sweet masala sauce at all?

Cheers for the recipe

ELW
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on September 16, 2014, 09:54 PM
It was the peppers that caught my eye rather than the tarka which ive tried before.

Are you saying that you've never tried peppers in a base before?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: ELW on September 16, 2014, 10:01 PM
It was the peppers that caught my eye rather than the tarka which ive tried before.

Are you saying that you've never tried peppers in a base before?

Not 2 whole peppers (big ones)in 3kg of onions no
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on September 16, 2014, 10:28 PM
It was the peppers that caught my eye rather than the tarka which ive tried before.

Are you saying that you've never tried peppers in a base before?

Not 2 whole peppers (big ones)in 3kg of onions no

Ah, ok. But jb states "both a red and green pepper(they were quite small)".
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: ELW on September 16, 2014, 10:36 PM
It was the peppers that caught my eye rather than the tarka which ive tried before.

Are you saying that you've never tried peppers in a base before?

Not 2 whole peppers (big ones)in 3kg of onions no

Ah, ok. But jb states "both a red and green pepper(they were quite small)".
He stated that way too late for me. What to do with the yellow pepper that's left is the big question in my house, tonight & tomorrow
Don't know if you've made this yet  ss, it's really good
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: rshome123 on September 16, 2014, 10:40 PM
Thanks jb and other guys for the replies.  Have decided to use half a large red and green pepper for the 2 kg version I will do.

And that lonely yellow pepper (the one that is left over from the pack of 3).... salad.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on September 16, 2014, 10:41 PM
He stated that way too late for me. What to do with the yellow pepper that's left is the big question in my house, tonight & tomorrow
Don't know if you've made this yet  ss, it's really good

Hahaha. The yellow pepper conundrum...I really do know it well!  ;D

There were lots of small details lacking in jb's initial description, but they've all been ironed out. And yes, I have made it, and as usual am left thinking what's all the fuss?

Good base, like the tarka, but it's not making me think, wow, this is it.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: JerryM on September 17, 2014, 07:51 PM
Got chatting to lady in shop. I know I shouldn't. I was taking a long time at the peppers trying to find pack without yellow or smallest yellow. Amazing she loved em used in salad.

Thought it might help some of you healthy eater heathens. Sorry off topic.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: rshome123 on September 18, 2014, 12:36 AM
I'm intrigued.  What shop, what lady, and why shouldn't you?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: noble ox on September 18, 2014, 08:06 AM
There is a recipe called "Rasta pasta" which uses red green and yellow peppers that's where the packaging started ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: mickdabass on September 18, 2014, 08:58 AM
is it me or do peppers all taste the same regardless of colour???
 

Regards

Mick
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: noble ox on September 18, 2014, 09:12 AM
Its you Mick :D
You can now get taste bud transplants from Hollywood D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: mickdabass on September 18, 2014, 09:19 AM
cheers NO  ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Mike hunt on September 25, 2014, 02:43 PM
Going to have a bash at this next week, Seems as though its struck a cord with most, Was it just 1 clove of garlic for the tarka or did some of you more,
Cheers.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: noble ox on September 25, 2014, 02:51 PM
Hi Mh
I am sure it was a couple but for me being a garlicox ;D ;D ;D 10 was perfect
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Mike hunt on September 25, 2014, 02:54 PM
Cheers for that noble fox, I did read that someone said 1 clove was not enough so i will go for ten,
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on September 25, 2014, 05:15 PM
Not sure about 10 cloves  :o
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Onions on September 25, 2014, 05:30 PM
Praps he meant bulbs ;)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on September 25, 2014, 05:35 PM
Yes that certainly sounds better  ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: noble ox on September 25, 2014, 06:13 PM
10 whole bulbs in my garlic chicken no probs ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Onions on September 25, 2014, 06:22 PM
Great stuff! Must be a well sized plate! ;)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Mike hunt on September 25, 2014, 08:24 PM
Hi andy, What do you recommend garlic wise for the tarka, Seen some of your pictures of what you have cooked and they look superb mate,
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on September 25, 2014, 10:04 PM
Hi andy, What do you recommend garlic wise for the tarka, Seen some of your pictures of what you have cooked and they look superb mate,

Looks can be deceiving.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Korma Chameleon on September 28, 2014, 09:10 PM
I'm a slow mover me, like the tortoise in the hare & the tortoise, and this thread burst out of nowhere! Damn, I made up a different base today, wish I'd seen this thread first. It'll be next on my list.

JB says chop, but Chewy's picture clearly shows sliced, but there is no guarentee those garlic slices were tarka'd. I guess there is less chance of sticking & burning with fine slices. And I see no problem with blending at the end. Meaningless fine details.

Chewy's is my go-to base at the moment, so the main difference I see is no cabbage, and the addition of cocunut. Coconut was a standard addition to my "from scratch" curry I developed over many years, so I can well imagine the flavour that brings. The garlic tarka is interesting. I fear a little moving too far from Chewy's, the cabbage must be a key flavour contributer, but no harm in trying, nothing to lose.

Reading between the lines, it seems like the original recipe chef spoon can be substituted with 4 tbs (I know everyone has different idea's on this, but this comes from JB and someone else who reported back positive results). It also seems like 4-6 garlic cloves should be tarka'd instead of the original quoted 1.

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing JB! Was excited about today's base until I read this  :(.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: noble ox on September 29, 2014, 08:26 AM
Korma Chameleon  :)
Hi The jb base is very very good
 I am sure its not that crucial how the garlic is prepared chopped sliced or crushed as long as it gets in there
I would love to know who started the cabbage in the base is a must,I have been in loads of Bir kitchens and never seen it used,so I ask "does It really get used "?  Or is it a big wind up ?
If you want to raise a smile ;D at your Bir ask about cabbage in a base
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Onions on September 29, 2014, 10:32 AM
Hi andy, What do you recommend garlic wise for the tarka, Seen some of your pictures of what you have cooked and they look superb mate,

Looks can be deceiving.

Miaow!!! ;) :D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Edwin Catflap on September 29, 2014, 10:32 AM
Not sure about who started the cabbage discussion but my TA/Restaurant uses celery in their base.

Ed
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: noble ox on September 29, 2014, 11:26 AM
Brussel sprouts anyone ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Onions on September 29, 2014, 11:50 AM
It's Monday. Chuck in the left-overs from Sunday lunch!!! :D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Onions on September 29, 2014, 04:45 PM
Re: photos, should photos of this base be postsed here, or in the 'Pictures of your curries' section?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on September 29, 2014, 05:43 PM
Here.  It's not a curry, it's a base.
** Phil.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Onions on September 29, 2014, 05:49 PM
As in: "That's not a moon... that's a space station", of course ;)

Cheers!
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Gav Iscon on October 01, 2014, 01:04 AM
I would love to know who started the cabbage in the base is a must,I have been in loads of Bir kitchens and never seen it used,so I ask "does It really get used "?  Or is it a big wind up ?
If you want to raise a smile ;D at your Bir ask about cabbage in a base

Don't think any one said cabbage is a must. Its just appeared in a few of the different base recipes which along with many other good base recipes, adorn this great site, so its obviously not a wind up.

Are you sure you don't use an aluminium pan with a metal spoon? No smoke without fire as they say  ;)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: noble ox on October 01, 2014, 08:22 AM
Who was the 1st to use cabbage on this wonderful site ;D

 
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Gav Iscon on October 01, 2014, 09:43 AM
Who was the 1st to use cabbage on this wonderful site ;D

CBM, Julian Voight, Dave Loyden, unless it was you and I've missed it??
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on October 01, 2014, 12:13 PM
Who was the 1st to use cabbage on this wonderful site ;D

He Who Must Not Be Named (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,2332.msg20785.html#msg20785) mooted it as an idea in 2008, and shortly afterwards Haldi (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,200.msg25936.html#msg25936) stated that he had tried it, amongst many many other things.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: LouP on October 01, 2014, 12:27 PM
My local uses white cabbage in their base. They have told me :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Onions on October 01, 2014, 12:58 PM
Yay, George ressurected the thread four years later and now it's closed.

That ronnoc was a bit of a character though- seemed to go mental for no reason :D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on October 01, 2014, 01:14 PM
He misunderstood CA ("1/4 pint of yoghurt is a no-no", read as "yoghurt is a no-no") but then CA went out of his way to wind Ronnoc up, using his list name five times in a single post in what was clearly intended to be a deliberately provocative manner :

Quote from: Cory Ander
It is a "no no" in the context of adding 1/4 of a pint of it to make a korma Ronnoc (in my opinion).  It simply is not an option to using single cream, double cream, or milk.  The result will be dramatically different.  It will be much sourer and BIR kormas are not sour (in the slightest).  I'm sorry if you can't seem to see that Ronnoc?

Nevertheless, Ronnoc, what you are apparently trying to present is recipes from a particular chef in a particular takeaway.  It's still not clear, from your posts, which ingredients HE actually uses when HE makes HIS korma?

Thanks for your forbearance and perseverance in giving your recipes the best chance of success Ronnoc  ;)

You want people to have success with your recipes don't you Ronnoc?  :-\

Perhaps you have the takeaway madras recipe instead?  I think most of us would be able to better relate to that Ronnoc  :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Onions on October 01, 2014, 01:27 PM
Classic CA  ::)

Ironically, for an old base, it seems to have quite a lot in common with todays current star of the show (JB's, pace for the comparison!)- lot of the same ingredients, and with a (near)tarka too. But it didn't seem to get a good review; or was it his curries that were being criticised rather than the base?

But korma. What a recipe to promote!
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Gav Iscon on October 01, 2014, 01:34 PM
He Who Must Not Be Named (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,2332.msg20785.html#msg20785) mooted it as an idea in 2008.......

And cabbage is used in the op's recipe in that very thread. If we keep going we'll have it back to Roman times.

My local uses white cabbage in their base. They have told me :)
Was he smiling when you asked him?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on October 01, 2014, 01:38 PM
(deleted) contained false premise.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Onions on October 01, 2014, 01:38 PM
He will sell you some magic beans... ;)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Garp on October 01, 2014, 01:56 PM
Thinking of doing a new Scottish base with neeps in it (and maybe a wee dram).

That is how ridiculous this debate is getting...
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on October 01, 2014, 02:03 PM
Thinking of doing a new Scottish base with neeps in it (and maybe a wee dram).  That is how ridiculous this debate is getting...

Maybe.  But it has all been mooted (and tried) before (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,170.msg869.html#msg869).

H O W E V E R . . . We are in grave danger of de-railing what has, without doubt, been the most productive thread of the year, and quite possibly of the decade.  May I respectfully suggest that we move all non-JB-base related follow-ups to the "Off-topic" thread (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,1991.msg17039.html#msg17039), and ask George to tidy this one up out of respect for JB ?

** Phil.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Gav Iscon on October 01, 2014, 02:08 PM
Agreed, I'm just about to check supplies and finally get round to making this, this afternoon.  :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Onions on October 01, 2014, 02:13 PM
Classic CA  ::)

Ironically, for an old base, it seems to have quite a lot in common with todays current star of the show (JB's, pace for the comparison!)- lot of the same ingredients, and with a (near)tarka too. But it didn't seem to get a good review; or was it his curries that were being criticised rather than the base?

But korma. What a recipe to promote!
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Onions on October 01, 2014, 02:21 PM
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x355/dave-random/DSCF3281.jpg)

(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x355/dave-random/DSCF3282.jpg)

(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x355/dave-random/DSCF3284.jpg)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Garp on October 01, 2014, 02:29 PM
No, because the most productive thread was H4C's naans, without a doubt.

JB' base is a variation of many themes.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on October 01, 2014, 02:42 PM
/Some/ make and eat naans; we all make and use a base.
** Phil.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on October 01, 2014, 02:45 PM
IMG IMG IMG
All too wide (1,024px × 768px); resize to 680 x 480, please.
** Phil.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Garp on October 01, 2014, 02:48 PM
/Some/ make and eat naans; we all make and use a base.
** Phil.

That was not the point, Phillipo. The argument was what was the most productive, not the most used.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on October 01, 2014, 03:22 PM
/Some/ make and eat naans; we all make and use a base.
That was not the point, Phillipo. The argument was what was the most productive, not the most used.

I think of it as a discussion, not an argument.  But I believe that the evidence supports my assertion -- IMHO, JBs thread has led to far more productive discussion than did H4C's.  This is not to decry the value of Happy Naans in any way; merely to suggest that the overall benefit of this thread to members (modulo any off-topic posts therein)  is greater than that of H4C's.  You may choose to differ -- that is your right.

** Phil.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Garp on October 01, 2014, 03:31 PM
I do choose to differ, my friend, and my use of the word 'argument' was intended to mean 'a reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory', and not as you took it to mean.

I would, therefore, argue that, even if JBs thread has led to more discussion (which looking at the number of posts for both is also incorrect) it has not led to more productive results. H4Cs naans are now the accepted standard, in my opinion; JBs base is not.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on October 01, 2014, 03:34 PM
(deleted, see below)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on October 01, 2014, 03:37 PM
(removed to off-topic thread (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,1991.msg111340.html#msg111340); posted here in error).
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Onions on October 01, 2014, 03:59 PM
IMG IMG IMG
All too wide (1,024px × 768px); resize to 680 x 480, please.
** Phil.

 8)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on October 01, 2014, 04:23 PM
Sorry, resize to 680 x 510; mental arithmetic let me down on this occasion :(
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Gav Iscon on October 02, 2014, 09:00 AM
Well after over 2 months, I finally took the plunge and made this. Did the first stage in the pressure cooker and as I forgot to get peppers on my shop yesterday, I had to substitute the red for a yellow. I also added a 5 clove garlic tarka at the end off stage 2 instead of the one and then bended with my new Kenwood triblade (700W) hand blender which made short work of it compared to my vintage moulinex hand blender. Very pleased with it. Anyway here's a photo whilst on its last simmer. Its looking and tasting very good. Just need to find some freezer room now  :-\
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Onions on October 02, 2014, 10:08 AM
Good pic! But could you please resize it so there's a scrollbar at the bottom? Cheers :P ;)  LOL
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: harley on October 04, 2014, 05:04 PM
Got jb's base on the go done to spec.

Going back a few pages, I have the same coconut block at my local Asian grocery as jb shown.
(http://uppix.com/f-coco543018ab0017c1b9.jpg)

two thirds is more yellow looking. I used the quarter of the more white bit. Don't know if on the next base I cut some the yellowy outer bit?

Would be good if jb could do a video of him doing the base. More so the high heat bit, would like to see how high you really get and peak how much the base/onions are rolling/bubbling. Full high heat seems a bit much on my cooker. Anyway I've got it on a fairly high heat and is bubbling away quite ferociously.

Also could show on the video show what is considered by you for melting onions.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on October 04, 2014, 05:12 PM
I read somewhere (possibly/probably here) that the oil tends to separate in coconut blocks and congregate at one end; if this is the case, then I would have expected that the yellowish end woulod be the solidified coconut oil, and the coconut solids are the white end, but as you report more yellow than white, then I may be wrong (unless there really was only about 1/3 coconut solids in your block, which I suppose is a possibility).

** Phil.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: harley on October 04, 2014, 05:45 PM
I've just cut more into the coconut block to see how much more yellow there is and it does look to be one third white and two thirds yellow or off white.

The store just has the KTC blocks on the shelf, no refrigeration. best before is 2016. Question would be do some of you have these blocks without separation or just didn't notice? Are two thirds for the bin or do we need to add a bit of the solidified oil?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on October 04, 2014, 06:37 PM
The white bit is the separated coconut oil and has very little flavour - try some. You should be using the yellow bit. All the blocks I've ever had have this separation.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: harley on October 04, 2014, 11:04 PM
(http://uppix.com/f-c154306c2e0017c296.jpg)
(http://uppix.com/f-c254306c360017c297.jpg)
Decent enough curry but my feelings are nothing really new or anything extra special.

Thanks for sharing and the effort jb
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Onions on October 04, 2014, 11:06 PM
You've done a pretty gloopy sauce though there mate. Whar's with that?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on October 05, 2014, 07:57 AM
Nice plate  ;)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: curryhell on October 05, 2014, 09:52 AM
All looking damn good to me Harley. In fact texture looks very much like that served by one of my locals. Maybe it wouldn't appear "gloopy" had the pic been taken with the curry in a serving dish  ::)  I'd even go so far as to say, in a serving dish it would probably have had the "flocked" appearance that occasionally gets mentioned on here  ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: harley on October 05, 2014, 11:13 AM
Cheers curryhell. I thought that maybe the case.

The appearance is the same to me when I've experimented with a little coconut milk and more turmeric than I normally do. Gets a bit orangey and milky. Tasted decent though.

Things like coconut, larger amounts of turmeric and use of full tins of tomatoes which you see on other bases posted is not something I suspect is common in a curry base where I live though.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: mak on October 09, 2014, 10:31 AM
Hi all, this does sound promising and after not making a base for a while I am really excited about giving this a go :)

Can I ask if the following seems about right - proportion wise?


3 kilo white onions(chopped)
1 green pepper or 1 red pepper (or half and half)
small bunch coriander stalks
1 small carrot
60 grms plain veg oil
60 grms blended plum tomatoes
30 grms fresh ginger & garlic (50/50) blended with water
15 grms salt
15 grms turmeric
50 grms block coconut block

cover and cook for 2 hours until onions melt

then add:
7.5 grms turmeric
2.5 grms of chilli powder?
7.5 grms cumin
7.5 grms coriander
30 grms blended plum tomatoes

cover and cook for 30 mins then blend the base
Add water to thin the base

finely chop and fry 5 cloves of garlic until brown, tip into full amount of base, swill pan with a ladle of base and tip back into base.

Does all the above seem about right if we say 2 chefs spoons are 30grms?

My main question is do I add enough water to thin out, (per base batch) to double up the entire base batch size?
or is it approx added water of 1 ltr ? 2 ltr etc etc???

Thanks in advance


Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: hazzy on October 12, 2014, 03:10 AM
Before the 2.5 hours cooking, note the special white sauce ;)  (dont be gross, thats coconut cream cause i couldnt find coconut block in about 5 different shops):

(http://oi62.tinypic.com/2vtxi6b.jpg)

after cooking and blending with hand blender:

(http://oi58.tinypic.com/29wx1ef.jpg)

turned out good, tastes good, will try it in a curry tonight.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Sverige on October 12, 2014, 06:33 AM
Looks great hazzy and very thick compared to some of the bases I've been reading up on here.

Genuine question to all the experts out there: is there a reason this base has to be diluted before you cook with it? Couldn't you just fry your spices and tomato puree in oil in a separate pan till they're nicely cooked, then combine with a few spoonfuls of this base and cook together with your veg, meat or whatever in a sealed pan with minimal evaporation?  In stead of diluting down the base then all that spluttering and messy frying on high heat in an open pan?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: hazzy on October 12, 2014, 09:12 AM
made JB's paste too today, had some and made some for the missus, was a fantastic sweet curry. i wont be going to the takeaway curry shop for a while thats for sure
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: livo on October 12, 2014, 10:34 AM
Looks great hazzy and very thick compared to some of the bases I've been reading up on here.

Genuine question to all the experts out there: is there a reason this base has to be diluted before you cook with it?
I'm no expert but the reason base gravy is thin (and sometimes bland as well), is so that the chef can use different spices in different dish recipes to give them different taste.  If the base from a restaurant is too thick and has too much flavour to start with then all of the dishes would taste very similar and there would be no room to vary them.  Remember it is a short cut used to produce volume in a commercial kitchen.

There is no reason why you have to have a thin base at home and certainly if you are freezing it then it is better to leave it thick and add water when you are about to use it.  If you like the taste of your base and your happy to have different curries taste similar there is no problem.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on October 12, 2014, 11:01 AM
Thin base for me ,singe those spices
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: mak on October 12, 2014, 11:50 AM
I did this base yesterday (3 kilo onions) - revised my measurements that I noted above.
Will be doing 1.5kg next time as I have ended up with around 19 portions!!!
 
Anyway, I have thinned it out - think I added an extra 5l water in all. The base is thin and does has that nice aroma about it.

Made Chewys tikka and dip's korma last night and both were very good.

Very pleased and thanks very much for posting these findings JB :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: George on October 12, 2014, 01:37 PM
Genuine question to all the experts out there:

Who's that then? I suggest you should have more confidence in your own ideas, which sound good to me.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Garp on October 12, 2014, 02:03 PM
There is no reason why you have to have a thin base at home and certainly if you are freezing it then it is better to leave it thick and add water when you are about to use it. 

The danger with that is evident from a pic of a recent curry I made having just made a base, and thinking it was a little thick, added some more water, then used it to make a curry.

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/6381de2edabcc4c748bb79ecd43a78da.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#6381de2edabcc4c748bb79ecd43a78da.JPG)

As you can see, there is seepage of the liquid from the base around the edges. Not that it was a disaster....but adding water during the final preparation of a dish is a no-no for me. Better to have the base thinned out (and the liquid will absorb the flavours) then reduce some of the liquid off during the final cooking.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on October 12, 2014, 04:40 PM
Interesting point you make here Garp, I have never thought about this,but have seen it a few times on the odd quick currys I have made.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Garp on October 12, 2014, 04:56 PM
It was CH who pointed it out to me :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on October 12, 2014, 04:59 PM
Hi guys,sorry went away for the weekend.
The chicken curry was quite simple.A ladle of oil/veg ghee from the tin on the stove.I then added ginger/garlic,salt,mix powder,tomato paste.Cooked that out,added some base and the chicken.It was then cooked for about two minutes on a fairly high bubbling heat.He didn't add any methi by the way.Very simple,and quite important to me,very few ingredients,no pastes or anything so the base was the main thing that went in so it had to be good.PS forgot to mention a little bit of the spiced oil from the top of the gravy was added towards the end of the curry.

Hi Jb after using your base for a while now I had managed to miss this particular post, you mention above making the curry u used 1x ladle of oil! I could see from your curry photo there was a large amount of oil in the curry.
Would you mind confirming a full ladle of oil is used in the final curry? Also the chef was able to reclaim oil from the base is thus suggesting more than the first stated amount was used in the base?
Kind regards.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on October 12, 2014, 05:01 PM
And a good point made I think, thanks Go to C-H&Garp :D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Garp on October 12, 2014, 06:32 PM
CH = CurryHell :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: haldi on October 12, 2014, 07:46 PM
Would you mind confirming a full ladle of oil is used in the final curry?
that's a very good point
I read it as a chef spoon, but it does say ladle
I reckon it's got to be a chef spoon, but I'd like to know for sure
Well spotted Sherlock Chillie
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: noble ox on October 12, 2014, 07:57 PM
Could be a chefs ladle  ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on October 12, 2014, 08:42 PM
After a little more thought on the ladle, I have concluded IMO it has to be a ladle, it would be impossible to get a chefs spoon oil out of a tin as Jb says its in a tin.
I'm guessing it's an old large tomato paste tin used for oil, these have steep sides so the oil would slide of a chefs spoon but a ladle would hold the oil.
Thus would account for the large amount of oil in the curry photo Jb supplied, now wondering if I need this oil to fulfil the flavour fully to spec.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Bengali Bob on October 13, 2014, 08:39 AM
I have yet to see a chef use much more (or less) than 1 cs of oil (veg ghee or veg ghee/veg oil) for a basic curry, or a madras.  2 cs for a vindaloo.  A little more may be introduced to the dish via the pre-cooks, and of course the base gravy.  Jb's picture looks spot on to me.  Good separation. There should be a decent amount of oil on top of the curry when it's cooked for dishes like these, imo; even more should be visible when it's left to stand (e.g like a takeaway delivery).  No BIR juice is usually a bad omen. 

Rob  :)     
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Invisible Mike on October 13, 2014, 03:26 PM
 "No BIR juice is usually a bad omen."

That's tickled me. You should have that as your new signature Bob.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: mickdabass on October 13, 2014, 04:08 PM
Hi all, this does sound promising and after not making a base for a while I am really excited about giving this a go :)

My main question is do I add enough water to thin out, (per base batch) to double up the entire base batch size?
or is it approx added water of 1 ltr ? 2 ltr etc etc???

Thanks in advance

Hi Mak

At the end of cooking, I added enough water to make the final volume 6 litres. Others made it 7 litres

Regards

Mick
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on October 13, 2014, 09:22 PM
Quite agree with what your saying Bob, but unless my eyes are deceiving me the curry photo supplied by JB looks an even 50/50 oil to base sauce, now that's a lot of BIR juice ;)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: hazzy on October 14, 2014, 08:57 AM
mine was really thick then (only made 11 portions of 2 ladles each) but I froze them and will thin it out as i use them
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: sp on October 18, 2014, 07:35 PM
Just trying this for the second time this evening, managed to burn the onions the first time round :'(
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: sp on October 18, 2014, 09:16 PM
My verdict, pleasant enough tasting but doesn't taste of anything in particular unlike the real base sauce I have here; but the garlic gives it a bit of body.

Despite volunteering in a local restaurant kitchen for the last few months and pestering at every opportunity I never got a proper recipe for the gravy - starters, naans, rice, pre-cook, mains - all yes, but no definitive gravy recipe, just a list of ingredients (although I'm not convinced that they are the whole story!).  That's how important the gravy is - replicate that and I can do the rest, the Glasgow Takeaway book gets close, but it's too sweet and sickly, which I've covered on other posts on the subject.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Sverige on December 23, 2014, 11:37 AM
Really appreciate this recipe thread :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Pugs on December 27, 2014, 05:10 PM
Hi all,

So, having read the past 38 threads a wee bit of conflicting amounts. Can we have a defintive quantity checklist for HOME amounts if possible please?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: livo on December 28, 2014, 12:09 AM
Hi all,

So, having read the past 38 threads a wee bit of conflicting amounts. Can we have a defintive quantity checklist for HOME amounts if possible please?

This link will take you to a pic spreadsheet I made that gives JB's in a HOME qty.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,13358.msg112217.html#msg112217 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,13358.msg112217.html#msg112217)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: SoberRat on January 18, 2015, 07:14 PM
I made a small batch of this up this week, enough for about six curries, and the only thing I did different was to sieve the base as my blender really does need replacing. I also added more garlic than was suggested early on and I have to say that it makes good curries. It added an extra layer of flavour for the recipes that I use. Thanks JB.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on January 27, 2015, 10:46 AM
Jb going to knock up a batch of your base this afternoon! Who needs TV ;)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Naga on January 27, 2015, 11:59 AM
Jb going to knock up a batch of your base this afternoon! Who needs TV ;)

Ooooh! Errrr! Missus! :) But, seriously, I've been using this base consistently as my standard for several months and it's ideal for me. Excellent recipe, JB! :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on January 27, 2015, 12:27 PM
Jb, halfway through the process, having made this base a good number of times previous, there is one thing I'm lost on! I read a few posts where you talk of reclaiming the oil. But I can't see there is sufficient added to reclaim.
Having worked out a reliable oil free base, I often use in some dishes, I'm always happy to vary my cooking.
Would you say the oil content should be upped in this base for reclaiming? Or left as is?
Many thanks.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Mattie on February 13, 2015, 01:07 PM
For those, like me that love their pressure cooker - 35 minutes at full pressure then a natural release worked wonders and really melted the onions.  Although I had to ram down the 3 kg of sliced onions to fit in my 6 litre pressure cooker. 
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: masalanoob on February 14, 2015, 05:41 PM
I wanted to check first before failing a 2nd batch... when we say 1/4 coconut block, I don't mean to sound stupid but where do I get one and what do they even look like? - masalanoob
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Onions on February 14, 2015, 05:52 PM
wqhere are u
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Garp on February 14, 2015, 05:53 PM
One like this bud :) Get it from any generic supermarket....

http://apolloactive.co.uk/products/blue-dragon-creamed-coconut-block-200g?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=773708283&gclid=COWp84qA4sMCFZMZtAodojYAOQ (http://apolloactive.co.uk/products/blue-dragon-creamed-coconut-block-200g?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=773708283&gclid=COWp84qA4sMCFZMZtAodojYAOQ)

Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: masalanoob on February 14, 2015, 06:21 PM
thank you so much mate... if you didn't help me I probably would've thrown in 1/4 of an actual coconut in the pot!
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: mickdabass on February 14, 2015, 06:58 PM
Masalanoob
If you can't get any then just miss it out. It's not a big deal
Regards
Mick
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Garp on February 14, 2015, 08:18 PM
No problem, my friend  :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on February 27, 2015, 06:13 PM
I like this guys videos.  Does a great Base Gravy too.  Check this Super Hot Phaal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb6w1j51X3o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb6w1j51X3o)

That reminds me. (moderated).  :-X
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Korma Chameleon on March 03, 2015, 08:18 PM
I followed this thread from its opening. Took me a while to get around to making and testing out with a variety of currys. And the result? It's good, no doubt, but Chewy's remains my number 1.

This one definitely has something different, and that something I've tasted before somewhere (let's say takeaway twang). Not sure what that comes from, possibly the garlic fry. Still, in general it seems to lack the depth of flavour that comes from Chewy's; and I'm not even going to get into the cabbage debate  :-X. But I know what I like, and other base sauces have to be tested against it. And it's not just me, guests show more enthusiasm for a curry made with Chewy's base.

All said, a base is just a base, and the curry must be built on it. Perhaps my chosen curry method and spice proportions just happen to sit well with the Chewy base; that's hard to say.

Today was my first curry in several weeks. All came together in a flash; great result. I felt like a chef in an Indian  8).
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: SoberRat on April 09, 2015, 11:59 PM
I now use this set of ingredients for my base but I cook it in a similar way to CT, by which I start of by frying some of the ingredients in the oil and then cook it down for the first stage in the pressure cooker for about 30-35 minutes, then do the remaining stages similar to the original recipe with the lid off. The other element that I do differently is I blend the garlic tarka into the sauce and strain the mixture with a sieve like CT's recipe. I have to say that by mixing the two ideas I am getting the best results that I have had so far.   
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Pugs on April 14, 2015, 04:03 PM
Hi all,

So, having read the past 38 threads a wee bit of conflicting amounts. Can we have a defintive quantity checklist for HOME amounts if possible please?

This link will take you to a pic spreadsheet I made that gives JB's in a HOME qty.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,13358.msg112217.html#msg112217 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,13358.msg112217.html#msg112217)

Thanks Livo. Quick ? any significance with the teaspoons being 't' or 'T'?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Onions on April 14, 2015, 05:12 PM
no mate
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: martinvic on April 14, 2015, 06:47 PM
Tablespoons, teaspoons?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: livo on April 14, 2015, 10:43 PM
I use T for tablespoon and t for teaspon.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on April 14, 2015, 11:43 PM
I use T for tablespoon and t for teaspon.

Me too. And I use teaspoon for teaspon.  ;D

(the irony is that when I first typed that I typed "And I use teaspon for teaspon"!

Must be catching.   ???
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: livo on April 14, 2015, 11:53 PM
It's very difficult to spell proper when your on a 7" tablet and with my eyes as they now are plus sausage fingers.  I try to fix things and it can take ages or make it worse so as long as it's close I'm good.

Actually, I usually use Tbsp and tsp to avoid confusion, but in that chart I didn't for some reason.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on April 15, 2015, 12:29 AM
...sausage fingers...

Mmmmmmmmmmmm!

Sausage fingers.  ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Pugs on April 16, 2015, 01:16 PM
Ok thanks Livo  ;)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Pugs on April 16, 2015, 01:37 PM
What stage can you freeze this before or after adding the Tarka?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Naga on April 16, 2015, 03:22 PM
I freeze mine once the entire cooking process has been completed, i.e., after the tarka. No problems.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: DeadBeat on April 16, 2015, 08:17 PM
I must admit I've been quite slack in trying lots of bases from this site over the years and have stuck mainly with CT or CA's. I tried this and was quite excited to be trying something different, especially with the positive reviews.

However, .....I just don't like it. I tried it with JB Madras recipe, and tqice to make sure I didn't mess up on the first attempt.

Maybe it's a regional thing? Where is the base from? I know curries in the south, midlands and north can vary quite dramatically in taste.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Invisible Mike on April 19, 2015, 01:08 AM
I tried this base last night for the first time in my own madras recipe and was quite impressed. I certainly got one or two elusive BIR flavours. The sort you recognise but can't quite put your finger on...I think next time I make it I may be tempted to tarka all of the garlic plus ginger and spices to maximise the "hit" as having tasted it before and after the one clove was added I don't think there was much difference.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Naga on April 19, 2015, 07:50 AM
......after the one clove was added I don't think there was much difference.

That's also my take - I tarka half a bulb of garlic, otherwise I leave the recipe as is. I don't really notice a strong garlic flavour coming through from the finished base, but then I do like lots of garlic so I'm maybe conditioned to the taste.

PS: I should also add that I tend to make half-quantities of jb's base, so that's half a bulb of garlic to 1.5kg of onions.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on May 28, 2015, 08:12 PM
Hi Jb, I have just made your base again using the method below, It just astounds me how good this base really is. My full apprecintion to you sir.
 8)

I'm posting my thanks and a link SR has created using your base and a pressure cooker here out of respect, it works a treat.

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,13939.0.html (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,13939.0.html)

LC
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: chilli pepper on August 06, 2015, 04:21 PM
Is there an alternative to using "coconut block"? I am unable to buy it where I live, would a quantity of coconut milk produce the same results does anyone know?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: fried on August 06, 2015, 04:44 PM
I'd use coconut milk powder if you can get it. Where do you live?

I'd omit the coconut block rather than using coconut milk as it's going to change the base to much for my liking.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: chilli pepper on August 06, 2015, 08:04 PM
Hi and thanks for the reply. I don?t think I can get coconut milk powder either  :( My only chance is a small indian spice shop that supplies the restaurants, so it may be worth me asking in there - although all I have ever seen in there is dessicated coconut and milk. What exactly is "Coconut block"? Is it a chilled product or to be found on the shelf? I?m in Fuerteventura, Canary Islands
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Naga on August 06, 2015, 10:59 PM
Spices of India deliver to the Canary Islands, although the shipping charge is a hefty £32.95. Might be handy for a bulk order of BIR supplies though. Worth a look?

http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Free-Delivery-Offer.shtml (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Free-Delivery-Offer.shtml)

There are other online Asian grocery stores that might deliver to you. Have a search for them.

This is an example of  coconut block:

http://m.tesco.com/h5/groceries/r/www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=271761473 (http://m.tesco.com/h5/groceries/r/www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=271761473)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Pugs on August 13, 2015, 01:00 PM
The chef then explained that in the takeaway they leave the gravy like this(it's quite thick) and then add water to thin when they need it.It should be very thin,like watery soup.However when it hits the hot pan it will thicken.Finally take another pan,add a chef's spoon of oil and add a very finely chopped garlic clove and brown it.Tip this into the gravy(rinse the garlic pan out with a spoon of gravy).This seemed to give the gravy a fantastic smokey like flavour.Simmer the sauce for about half an hour and the oil should begin to rise.

I haven't tried this base yet but can somebody clarify what we do at home at this stage? Do we add enough water to turn into watery soup, add the garlic tarka, cook on and then divide up to freeze down\use up? Or should it be that the final stage is only done when about to use in a curry?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Naga on August 13, 2015, 01:20 PM
For making a curry, I use equal parts of JB's base and water.

As I invariably make double-portion curries, I freeze the finished base in 225g portions (using small, self-sealing supermarket food bags), then add a further 225g of water when I'm ready to cook.

Works for me! :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Naga on August 13, 2015, 01:34 PM
Just put of interest, I use a spreadsheet to record my most-used recipes and to provide a scalable guide in case I have more or less than the 'standard' amount of the main ingredient. I've done this with JB's base...

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/6cb785733bad7e83c18193d425722720.jpg)
Original Quantity

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/4ae8c9bd70d6cdc68e420b8fdf2fc1be.jpg)
Half Quantity (Scalable)

Although the ingredient list doesn't change in any way, typing the amount of main ingredient in the red box scales the rest of the ingredients amounts accordingly.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: chilli pepper on August 19, 2015, 02:59 PM
Thanks for the reply re the coconut "block" naga - thanks to your tesco link I was able to find what I was looking for in the Indian Spice shop, silly me, I didn?t realise "block" was, in fact "creamed Coconut" I?ll now be trying out a madras or two using this base  :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Naga on August 19, 2015, 05:20 PM
...I?ll now be trying out a madras or two using this base  :)

Good luck with your currying! Let us know how you get on. :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Pugs on August 30, 2015, 01:39 PM
For making a curry, I use equal parts of JB's base and water.

As I invariably make double-portion curries, I freeze the finished base in 225g portions (using small, self-sealing supermarket food bags), then add a further 225g of water when I'm ready to cook.

Works for me! :)

Cheers, 225g of water or 225ml?

Do you have a copy of your spreadsheet please?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on August 30, 2015, 02:23 PM
[225g of water or 225ml?

Unless your water is unusually heavy, I think you will find they are (as near as d@mmit) one and the same thing ...

** Phil.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: marbro8 on September 04, 2015, 08:08 PM
Quote
I'll get back in there as soon as I can,don't worry all will be revealed!

look forward to it jb
HI JB
 i know that i am just a novice when it comes to curry making, i have been using julian voight's book and watching youtube. i was just thinking about the watering down of the base sauce. when i do mine i use boiled onion water. just boil a load of onions with a bit of salt discard the onions and keep the flavoursome water. then do you think if you used it to water the base sauce down it would give it another level of flavour? or do you think it would be overkill?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: madpower on September 05, 2015, 01:02 AM
I think its a good idea marbro8,except for the bit were you say you discard the onions when most restaurants pre cook the onions for a main dish anyway,i do the same so next time i will not throw the water out i will use it to thin my base,thanks for the idea.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: marbro8 on September 06, 2015, 11:54 AM
no probs madpower. glad my first pot was a useful ;D one lol
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Onions on November 02, 2015, 09:48 AM
Totally forgot this was meant to be done in two halves; I went and put the turmeric etc in at the beginning... h'mm... question now i suppose is whether to put it in again (assuming that the powder degraded over a couple of hours hard boiling) or not (if the spice doesn't degrade, it might then be too strongly flavoured)...
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on November 02, 2015, 05:18 PM
Turmeric is added at the beginning  ::)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Onions on November 02, 2015, 05:20 PM
"etc"   :P

Actually it wasn't a total Mons, its smells bloody brilliant, having had the addition of a major taka injection and respicing.

Bit of a choker the blender busting half way through though  ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: curryhell on December 13, 2015, 01:38 PM
Well this has been long overdue.  As i'm running out of base for the vindaloo journey time to make some more and what better base to use next than this one.  Hopefully, it will move the journey forward a little  further than it's gotten so far :-\  Here's the start anyway.  I've only just started to boil the guts out of it.  The nasty KD smell has given way to the cream coconut kicking in  :)  Are you sure about 4TBS  to that chef spoon Jason.  Too b****y late now  ;D

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/e360f7e118fea0c33b775922114a4e55.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#e360f7e118fea0c33b775922114a4e55.jpg)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on December 13, 2015, 01:46 PM
CH I only use 3Tb , tried 4 but find 3 to be a lot better
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: curryhell on December 14, 2015, 07:04 PM
CH I only use 3Tb , tried 4 but find 3 to be a lot better
Cheers MA.  After the onions, peppers and coriander I reviewed the quantity of ingredients for spices, g/g, oil, blended tomato etc and, they are all pretty much in line with those of the Zaal base.  This put any concern on quanitity issues to bed, other than the ginger garlic, which was well out of proportion.  I therefore only added 3 rounded dssrt spoons of that  ;D .  Anyway, here the onions melting for those who haven't seen melting onions  :) :

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/a5778beacbd1aba8fa64897622bec20c.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#a5778beacbd1aba8fa64897622bec20c.jpg)

The base after blending:

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/5169680be8e9e0ba994eb94bdfaa7aef.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#5169680be8e9e0ba994eb94bdfaa7aef.jpg)

And the finished product:

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/fb8cdc201d446e305683672b89c93bdb.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#fb8cdc201d446e305683672b89c93bdb.jpg)

Base has very subltle flavour and is very morrish indeed.  As someone has already said you find yourself going back for more and more just to appreciate the taste.  I can only describe as very very mild slightly sweet creamy onion liquor with a hint of tomato just noticeable .  The curry taste is barely discernable and merges very much into the background.  No hint at all of the  coconut but this may be where the creamy flavour comes in.  Probably the best tasting base i've made and has great potential for providing the perfect backdrop to many a good curry.  I know you shouldn't judge how good a  base is by taste alone, so the only way to test it, is to make a nice curry sauce which i'm about to do now, once i've cracked open a bottle of Leffe.  Here's hoping  :P

Just back from cooking the sauce.  Let's just say that i think the vindaloo journey is going to progress now in the right direction.  I've already gained a point at least on my last effort, but i've got some more experimentation to do yet.  Thanks Jason for taking the time to put this base up.  It definitely deserves its place as one of the best bases posted on the site IMHO, given its popularity and widespread use.  I will do a side by side comp with the Zaal base before i run out.  However, I think i'll be making another batch of jb's base over the weekend.  I believe its going to take my cooking one step further - and that's just after cooking one sauce, but I have been cooking this sauce for along while and the results have not hit this mark until tonight  :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on December 14, 2015, 07:45 PM
Good work ch, Im glad this base worked or you too, certainly took my curries up a notch or two.
How much garlic did you tarka ? Adding a ladle of base to the garlic tarka fry pan gives an incredible aroma, its that point when you know how good a base this is.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: curryhell on December 14, 2015, 07:56 PM
I can see me using this base going forward Andy.  It will be interesting to do a direct comparison to the Zaal using identical timings measurements etc.  I think i already know that this base is going to come out on top in terms of what i'm looking for based on my tastes which are like everybody else's, influenced by their experience of their own local favourite BIRs.
As for the tarka, couldn't agree more.  I really did push the browning of the garlic but i do know when to stop and tipping it in to the base did that perfectly.  And the washing of the tarka pan with the base just underlines you've just created a great canvas for experimentation in the kitchen  :D  I added two large cloves and four baby cloves those in the middle that you avoid using till there nothing else.  Next time i'm gonna go for six good average size  or four large.  I'm sure i short measured the garlic but i'll remedy that with the next batch which will be coming up real soon.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on December 14, 2015, 08:28 PM
I added two large cloves and four baby cloves those in the middle that you avoid using till there nothing else.  Next time i'm gonna go for six good average size  or four large.
I have been using 4 average size in a 1.5kg version
Hate those small cloves !
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Zed666 on January 01, 2016, 11:38 AM
Since I don't really contribute back to the site as much as I should, I figured I would post a couple of phone pics of me making this base  :)...apologies for the poor camera phone quality. The base came out well, but not as orange as others.....I wonder if this is because I am doing a halved version and the amount of colour the turmeric adds to the base is not linear with amounts. I look for the little sweet twang on your gums when making my bases rather than taste, which is more down to how well you have cooked your onions/type of onions....this one came out perfecto.

Begin:
(http://i.imgur.com/MnUZJe9.jpg)
Melting Away:
(http://i.imgur.com/AD2rsva.jpg)
First Blend:
(http://i.imgur.com/COtOfUs.jpg)
Tarka Added:
(http://i.imgur.com/06Dgazq.jpg)
Final Blend & Watered Down:
(http://i.imgur.com/qC5mxOC.jpg)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Zed666 on January 01, 2016, 01:52 PM
I have just gone back to a few pictures of people making this base and realized I may have messed up slightly...

"1 green pepper/1 red pepper"....I read this as meaning 1 green pepper OR 1 red pepper whilst other people clearly have added both.

Could somebody clarify this?, surely it would have been "1 green pepper & 1 red pepper" if we were meant to use both ?.

The Zaal base is similar and uses just the 1 pepper.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: curryhell on January 01, 2016, 02:58 PM
Z, I did confirm this with jb before i got round to making the base as I was not sure.  It is one small red pepper and one small green pepper.  The fact you've only added one, whilst deviating from the recipe  a fraction ::) , I don't think it will impact too drastically on the overall quality of the base or the results you'll get  ;)  Enjoy.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Zed666 on January 01, 2016, 03:09 PM
Thanks for clarifying CH....I did use pretty much a whole small pepper in my recipe anyway thinking the recipe called for 1 large one.....so for my half portion the quantity would have been about right minus the slight flavour difference.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: haldi on January 03, 2016, 04:57 PM
Adding a ladle of base to the garlic tarka fry pan gives an incredible aroma, its that point when you know how good a base this is.
now that's a very good point!
Perhaps how the finished curry should be started off?
It does smell absolutely amazing, doesn't it?

I feel I've got the base right now, but still can't make the curry 100%
very frustrating!
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Madrasandy on January 03, 2016, 07:15 PM
I feel I've got the base right now, but still can't make the curry 100%
very frustrating!

Very frustrating indeed, maybe down to technique?
Ive made some great curries lately but still have a few "average" ones thrown in to give me a head stratching moment
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: dave3310 on January 24, 2016, 09:22 AM
Stumbled across this thread a couple of days ago and glad I did.

Knocked up the base yesterday afternoon and before going out last night made a madras sauce......... I can honestly say it was the mutts nuts.  Best I've tasted in many many years.  Will be definitely sticking with this one.

A true BIR taste.

Nice one JB   ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: KORMAKING on February 14, 2016, 12:13 AM
Just knocked up my very first base using the JB recipe.

Results we're good  ;D

Knocked up a very quick Ceylon straight away, came out well.

I think I need a little more practice before I get a true BIR taste but certainly on the way!

Cheers to jb and everyone else on this forum!!!
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: stinkydave on February 19, 2016, 10:29 PM
Hello curryfans,

Fell across this forum by accident and I'm so glad I did. Just on the final boil of this base and it smells totally fantastic. Cheers JB :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: meggeth on February 20, 2016, 12:06 AM
Hello!

Soooo...."stinky"dave -  is it the way you cook or is it a personal thing?

????
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: stinkydave on February 20, 2016, 05:50 PM
Pretty much both as one is linked to the other.....
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: meggeth on February 20, 2016, 11:31 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: haldi on March 06, 2016, 08:06 AM
I made this base again yesterday. It's the best base I can do.although it has pretty much the same ingredients as other bases (including ones posted by me) the quantities are spot on. The only time I made this with less success, was when I cooked the Bhagar bit not quite right. That stage is absolutely critical.i went on to make jb 's Ctm , and my son described the sauce as f@@@ing awesome.
He was right.
Thanks jb!
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Curry addict bob on March 29, 2016, 07:00 PM
I've made the gravy it tastes similar to other good gravys I've made in the past a big thumbs up from me! I'm now going to make this my number one gravy from now on brilliant

Bob.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: leeroydan on April 19, 2016, 02:09 PM
Here's my attempt, cooked in my new 15l pot, which makes life so much easier.

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/70d5490808077b76911247c7375ea0ce.jpg)

After about an hour or so, I added more water at this point.

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/f924478cb4c39f6d32be9a919cb4dd97.jpg)


Finished product

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/855828d9a3dd7a23a24f2ae749db7bc2.jpg)

Made a lamb madras out of this Sunday night, which I don't have photos of, but was very tasty.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: DEXY111 on April 19, 2016, 10:03 PM
Here is the base gravy recipe I was recently shown by the chef on my recent takeaway lesson.I have been assured that it EXACTLY how the base gravy is prepared for a night's service,just on a smaller scale.As you can see it is quite similar to other recipes,there are no 'magic' pastes or ingredients.I cooked it in the takeaway kitchen so it should be able to be done in a domestic kitchen.Once it was cooked,I tasted it and compared it to the chef's gravy he had on the go.....It was virtually identical.Indeed although it's similar to other gravies it had a special something that I've not been able to manage before.The chef impressed the point that the onions MUST be cooked until they've virtually melted...that's the key to it's success.

3 kilo white onions(any sort,they chop them so it cooks quicker and it doesn't affect the taste)
1 green pepper/1 red pepper
small bunch corriander stalks
1 small carrot
2 chefs spoon plain veg oil
2 chefs spoon blended plum tomatoes
1 chef spoon ginger garlic
1/2 chef spoon salt
1/2 chef spoon turmeric
1/4 block coconut block

cover with water,put a lid on and then boil on a high heat for two hours until the onions are melting.


Then add 1/4 chef spoon turmeric,tiny amount of chilli powder,1/4 chef spoon cumin powder,1/4 chef spoon corriander powder,1 chef spoon  blended tomatoes.Re-cover and then turn the flame down(so the bottom doesn't catch )and cook for another half an hour,then blend until smooth.

The chef then explained that in the takeaway they leave the gravy like this(it's quite thick) and then add water to thin when they need it.It should be very thin,like watery soup.However when it hits the hot pan it will thicken.Finally take another pan,add a chef's spoon of oil and add a very finely chopped garlic clove and brown it.Tip this into the gravy(rinse the garlic pan out with a spoon of gravy).This seemed to give the gravy a fantastic smokey like flavour.Simmer the sauce for about half an hour and the oil should begin to rise.

So,nothing unusual and certainly no magic paste nonsense.Next time I go to visit the takeaway I will try and go when the chef is making a full size base gravy.Like I said though the gravy I made was a near perfect match to what he was using.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: DEXY111 on April 19, 2016, 10:05 PM
does coconut have to b in the basegravy
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on April 19, 2016, 10:37 PM
does coconut have to be in the base gravy
Nothing /has/ to be in the base gravy apart from water and onions; everything else (even the garlic and ginger) is optional.  But if you omit the coconut, it won't be JB's base gravy, it will be similar but different.

** Phil.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Micky Tikka on April 20, 2016, 09:49 PM
Well said Phil  :)
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: mickdabass on April 21, 2016, 10:43 AM
does coconut have to b in the basegravy

I feel sure you will still get excellent results without the coconut block. I think the most important part is to make sure the onions are cooked properly

Regards

Mick
Title: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on June 02, 2017, 04:58 PM
Hello and welcome to any new curry members, if your looking for a solid base Gravy then please take time to give jb's gravy a try.  In my opinion it's still one of the best out there.  My only advice to is stick to the recipe, don't add your own touch! or think you need a little more of this or that as you will fail.

Happy cooking, We are having bhindi bhaji and pilau tonight, I included a photo of jb's base as I just cooked a batch and remembered the old CRO forum.

Link http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=13136.0


Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Nickywelsh on June 23, 2017, 04:31 AM
Really good fun JB, did you hang around and get offered any Iftar goodies.

Was this better for you than the Zaal visit, i.e. a one to one tutorial with these cooks.

Just to back up your report about adding a Garlic tarka, which is old school BTW and not a lot of my locals do anymore.
I took a phone pic of a 30lt restaurant base last night, you can see the sliced garlic floating on top of the oil, before the base was blended.

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/0266d84e94fdec07881a0d0dec579ffe.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#0266d84e94fdec07881a0d0dec579ffe.jpg)

Although you say only one clove of Garlic, sliced and fried (Tarka) to finish,
even in a 3kilo base I would use at least 5 cloves of Garlic to get the flavour into it.

Anyhoo, what level would you rate this TA's curries and have you tried any of their speciality dishes.

Good Post ;)
cheers Chewy

This garlic tarka has given an extra 5% toward getting the 100% BIR taste (imho)! Just looking for a final 5% I'd say. It's given a new depth and smokiness to my base gravy.

I've added it to the Dave Loyden base which I prepared yesterday ready for the weekend...we'll see how it goes...P.S. no hing though, couldn't find any here in NZ. Will order online, and from what I hear the hing could be the big difference with his base.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Edwin Catflap on June 23, 2017, 10:50 AM
Hello and welcome to any new curry members, if your looking for a solid base Gravy then please take time to give jb's gravy a try.  In my opinion it's still one of the best out there.  My only advice to is stick to the recipe, don't add your own touch! or think you need a little more of this or that as you will fail.

Happy cooking, We are having bhindi bhaji and pilau tonight, I included a photo of jb's base as I just cooked a batch and remembered the old CRO forum.

Link http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=13136.0

Hi Littlechillie, is the link to the final iteration of the dish. Ive read the post in the past and the addition of the tarka appears midway through. It would be good if there was a link to the absolute final recipe?

Cheers

Ed
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on June 23, 2017, 04:13 PM
Yes JB had provided,it's the full recipe, just read through to the end.

The only other real problem I have encountered with replicating BIR is correctly cooking spice. Remember it needs to be fried until the raw odour has gone!!!!! This is especially important when frying chilli powder, not done correctly will change the flavour in the final dish.
Everything else is plain sailing... good luck.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on June 23, 2017, 07:06 PM
The only other real problem I have encountered with replicating BIR is correctly cooking spice. Remember it needs to be fried until the raw odour has gone!!!!! This is especially important when frying chilli powder, not done correctly will change the flavour in the final dish.
Interestingly, I found a counter-example to this just this week.  While visiting the homoeopath's in Camden Road, Tunbridge |Wells, I noticed a halal grocer advertising ready-made kebabs in the window (I forget the brand -- four letters, that is all I can remember now).  When I tried cooking them, I found them very pleasant when wrapped in a ghee'd chapati, but lacking a little in heat.  So, I just dredged raw cayenne powder on them, and it was a great improvement -- no trace of a "raw spice" flavour at all, which I attribute to the ghee in which I had cooked the kebabs soaking up (and binding with) the essential oils from the cayenne,

** Phil.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: littlechilie on June 23, 2017, 10:06 PM
The only other real problem I have encountered with replicating BIR is correctly cooking spice. Remember it needs to be fried until the raw odour has gone!!!!! This is especially important when frying chilli powder, not done correctly will change the flavour in the final dish.
Interestingly, I found a counter-example to this just this week.  While visiting the homoeopath's in Camden Road, Tunbridge |Wells, I noticed a halal grocer advertising ready-made kebabs in the window (I forget the brand -- four letters, that is all I can remember now).  When I tried cooking them, I found them very pleasant when wrapped in a ghee'd chapati, but lacking a little in heat.  So, I just dredged raw cayenne powder on them, and it was a great improvement -- no trace of a "raw spice" flavour at all, which I attribute to the ghee in which I had cooked the kebabs soaking up (and binding with) the essential oils from the cayenne,
** Phil.

Hi Phil, good point! Raw cayenne pepper can be very present, it's pure raw hot pepper after all. But I would not want two tablespoons of cheap bulk catering chilli powder on my dinner.. maybe that would send your kebabs to the kitchen bin rather quickly.
LC
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Edwin Catflap on June 24, 2017, 11:42 AM
guys the recipe on page 1 doesnt have the garlic qtys etc, what page is the final version. i have read before but its 46 pages long. Any pointers to the complete version would be a great help

ed
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Secret Santa on June 24, 2017, 09:00 PM
Ed this is just my personal take on this as I revisited this recipe in the past fortnight and I use a whole head of garlic for the 3L base in the original recipe. I also think that adding the tarka and then cooking on is a mistake as it loses the very effect the tarka is added for which is the rich smokiness of the garlic. I add it right at the end when the heat has been turned off and then blend it in.

It's a decent base but there's still no magic there for me although I do like the garlic tarka addition.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Bing on March 02, 2018, 08:33 PM
Great reading also. Can anybody tell me Jbs preference base please? Cos their be two. Thankful
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on March 03, 2018, 08:49 AM
Sorry, can;t help you there, Bing, but JB is still active [01 March 2018, 19:31:23], so may get back to you soon ...
** Phil.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Unclefrank on March 03, 2018, 10:14 PM
I have used this base for 3-4 years now and over the years i have added things taken things out, i probably cook anything from 10-80 curries a week and now this base is the only one i cook with, i don't add the coconut block, this base is very versatile and you can cook any dish with any heat level.
Having said that i do also like to have a batch of Taz's base in the freezer too.
Has for JBs preference i have no idea but i think he uses his newest one but i could be wrong, his bulk cooking also uses Taz's base.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: livo on March 03, 2018, 10:34 PM
I used this base a few years back and was well pleased with it.  I haven't used "the Other" one but a quick look shows pretty much the same ingredients except the coconut and coriander stalks.  The processes are both 2 stage so I can't see there would be a whole lot of difference.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Bing on March 04, 2018, 08:19 AM
Hi

Big thanks and would it be ok to supply me a link to all Jbs recipes thanks .
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on March 04, 2018, 09:35 AM
Big thanks and would it be ok to supply me a link to all Jbs recipes thanks .
That would probably take a great deal of work, Bing.  Probably better to visit each of the more important sections for the forum in turn and search for messages by JB.  Alternative follow this link (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=228) to see all messages by JB in a single thread [there are currently 815 of them].

** Phil.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Bing on March 04, 2018, 03:49 PM
Big thanks Man. He is the original authentic source.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on March 04, 2018, 06:03 PM
Hi guys,I still use my first base gravy,I always manage to get great tasting curries from it.The most important bit is the garlic Tarka,add this to any of the other great bases on here and it will transform a good gravy into one that should taste like your average restaurant gravy.Having said that,it's only a base,remember that the actual cooking of the curries and the technique is also important.The second gravy,from my takeaway chef is quite simple.I've seen my chef cook his gravy dozens of times now,no magic or secret ingedients just a good chef who knows his stuff.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: George on March 04, 2018, 06:42 PM
The thought occurs to me that it may be possible, as I have a freezer full of base already, to just add the garlic tarka to some reheated base and then blend. Would it really be that different? Suppose there's one way to find out.

I think it may be better because it will be fresher, rather than have the garlic sitting around in a pot of base sauce for quite a long time. Surely the idea of a tarka is that it's fresh, so that's why it's added to some final dishes, just before serving.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on March 04, 2018, 07:40 PM
The thought occurs to me that it may be possible, as I have a freezer full of base already, to just add the garlic tarka to some reheated base and then blend. Would it really be that different? Suppose there's one way to find out.








I think it may be better because it will be fresher, rather than have the garlic sitting around in a pot of base sauce for quite a long time. Surely the idea of a tarka is that it's fresh, so that's why it's added to some final dishes, just before serving.

Some time ago I tried the base gravy from the Curry Craft Book,very similar to most of the gravy recipes on here.At the end I added a garlic Tarka and I have to say the gravy was spot on,
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on March 04, 2018, 08:05 PM
I still visit my takeaway kitchen,there's a few new people in there but my chef friend is still there.I've watched him cook  just about everything on the menu and I've  also been there when he's done his prep work.Another chef has now joined from another takeaway that has recently shut down,he cooks on Mondays and Tuesdays so I'm going in the kitchen when he's there to see how he does things.I always buy a curry at the end of a night in the kitchen so everyone's happy,dread to think how much I've actually spent over the last couple of years,money well spent I tell the wife! Been home alone this weekend with the kids,had a takeaway Friday,went for a sit in curry Saturday and got another Sunday special takeaway on its way.....is that too much curry??
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Bing on March 04, 2018, 09:49 PM
Hi

Jb you the Man the inspiration for me to start up my engine. Is an ebook available from You?
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: haldi on March 05, 2018, 07:19 PM
Hi

Jb you the Man the inspiration for me to start up my engine. Is an ebook available from You?

I'd buy one
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on March 05, 2018, 07:47 PM
Been thinking about that for a while.Unfortunately I'm not really an IT expert so actually producing some sort of an Ebook would be a bit of a challenge for me.If I do manage to do such a thing I would definitely ask my chef for his help and input,he's such a nice bloke I'm sure he would be oblige.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: livo on March 05, 2018, 10:35 PM
JB, I've just sat and read your first 100 - 150 or so posts on this site and followed some of the related threads a little bit as well.  I found a whole lot of really interesting stuff and re-read some things I've seen before.  Around mid to late 2010, after your lessons, you were visiting your local takeaways and still questioning a mystery ingredient and that special missing flavour element from your own dishes.

Did you ever actually put your finger on it?  Was it just the difference between the expectation you had of your own cooking v's a shop chef?

I know that when I walk past a Takeaway or Restaurant the aroma is intense and it arouses the senses wonderfully.  I'm fairly sure that Kasoori Methi is a big contributor to this. I get pretty good aroma at home but it just doesn't seem the same. Maybe due to me being inside from the start and perhaps my place smells intense to people outside.  Perhaps the aroma from a shop is due to the totality of the various dishes combined.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on March 06, 2018, 09:55 AM
A very good question.There is still is a distinctive smell I get when I walk past a certain restaurant close to where I live.It literally wafts through the streets and is wonderful.Having said that,my favourite restaurant,also close by doesn't have the same smell neither does my local takeaway kitchen that I regularly visit.They all produce top notch food so I really don't know why they produce 'that' smell.They're always very busy with punters so maybe it's just a case of the sheer number of curries they are cooking.

As discussed on here before, cooking yourself or being in a takeaway kitchen can really play tricks on your senses.If I cook a curry feast at home after a time I can detect very little aroma or any of that 'BIR' smell,yet if I return to the house later the my whole home smells like a curry house,it literally lingers for days.Imagine a busy curry house cooking like this every day and that's probably where that magic smell comes from.

I think my curries are as good as they're going to get now,I get takeaways sometimes and think I can do so much better.Having said that,I still go to some places and think 'wow' that is superb.All down to the chef,no mystery ingredient or nonsense like that,if there was such a thing I would have seen my chef use it over the past few years I've been in his kitchen.Back in 2010 I was still quite a novice at curry cooking.I brought all of the ebooks etc but there was still something missing,and that was technique and actually how to cook curries properly,none of the books went into this.The best thing for me was actually getting into a kitchen and watching how a proper chef cooks,better than all of the books put together.Not stiring the pan, literally burning the garlic in the initial fry(this is one thing all of the ebooks tell you not to do),all these things come together in a BIR kitchen to produce that distinctive taste and aroma
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on March 06, 2018, 10:00 AM
Slightly off topic I know but I have to mention the quality of the naan breads I made at my last curry feast.A big thanks to Happy4chris(shame he just disappeared).If any one is still in any doubt that restaurant quality naan breads can't be done at home or without a tandoor then you're wrong.They are superb,actually better than some of the limp breads I sometimes get delivered.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: livo on March 06, 2018, 07:23 PM
Great reply JB.  Pretty well confirms my thoughts.
A question though, So are you saying here that the garlic should be really fried hard, contrary to the written works? Is that what your actual curry kitchen observations reveal?

It would be explained by the authors not wanting to tell people to burn garlic, which is not a great taste. There is point where we'll done garlic becomes over done. It is probably better to have a less than perfect, but edible dish than something inedible due to a burnt initial stage.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jb on March 06, 2018, 08:50 PM
Great reply JB.  Pretty well confirms my thoughts.
A question though, So are you saying here that the garlic should be really fried hard, contrary to the written works? Is that what your actual curry kitchen observations reveal?

It would be explained by the authors not wanting to tell people to burn garlic, which is not a great taste. There is point where we'll done garlic becomes over done. It is probably better to have a less than perfect, but edible dish than something inedible due to a burnt initial stage.

Absolutely,the chef starts just about every curry with a chef spoon of oil followed by chopped garlic which has been sitting in a little oil in a tub.The garlic is browned,and I mean really browned but not burnt if that makes sense.I've only ever once  seen him throw the contents of a pan away,that was when he went to take a telephone order and he actually did burn the garlic.As I've said,just about every curry book I have tells you NOT to brown the garlic too much,but my chef does and I think it's part of the technique of getting the flavour right.Remember the garlic tarka that goes into my takeaway gravy,that's also cooked until its really brown and then added to give an extra depth of flavour.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: livo on March 06, 2018, 09:06 PM
Gotcha. I'm doing a bit of a cook today. I've taken that on board.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: mak on May 02, 2018, 01:53 PM
Gotcha. I'm doing a bit of a cook today. I've taken that on board.

How did you get on with this method of cooking the garlic livo? Think I will give it a whirl.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: livo on May 02, 2018, 10:07 PM
Mak, I found that I was already giving the garlic a pretty good cook anyway so I didn't need to adjust my timing much. I guess the point is to reach the spot where you don't want to risk burnt garlic.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: daveyham on May 03, 2018, 06:39 PM
My tarka Dal went from being ok to lush when I took the garlic slices to almost but not quite burnt.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: daveyham on May 03, 2018, 06:46 PM
I believe it's the Malliard affect. "The flavour you cannot buy".
White bread tastes of white bread, toast on the other hand taste's of toast. Nothing added except heat.
Does this make sense.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: zikomo on October 17, 2018, 12:33 PM
Hi All Curry enthusiasts,

I live in Central Africa and here I cant seem to find the coconut block. What is the right alternative to use? coconut milk? cream? powder? etc. I'm a bit lost and I really want to try and make this base as I'm missing good-old blighty.

Thanks
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Sverige on October 17, 2018, 03:15 PM
Hi Zikomo,

You could safely add any of the substitutions you mentioned, or omit the coconut entirely - it's far from necessary in this or any other base sauce recipe. If you were cooking a chicken Ceylon curry then yeah, you need some coconut flavour from somewhere, but for a base gravy the most Important flavours are very well boiled onions and turmeric. Other additions like carrots, red peppers, tomato, garlic and spices only add small changes to the flavour.

Most of the flavour in your finished curry will come from the garlic, ginger, spices and tomato paste you fry at the beginning of the dish. The base gravy will just be adding bulk to the sauce. Don't get too hung up on trying to replicate exact ingredients in a base recipe. Most important is that it's mostly comprised of onions, has turmeric in, and is cooked for long enough to give a mild flavour without a harsh bitter onion taste.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: livo on October 17, 2018, 09:37 PM
Solid advice. Non critical ingredient and can be from any form of coconut.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: jonnie63 on August 04, 2019, 11:40 AM
Wow JB what can I say,

Thanks so much for posting this recipe.
I cook curry gravy in bulk because I am worse than Lister off Red Dwarf.
Over the years I have been looking for elusive ingredients or the magic secret.

I am not sure how to fully judge the result I came up with following your recipe, I think its best to explain this way. I am in Ireland for a few years, but born in the UK - I found very good local restaurant in Ireland. I did not feel their offerings were "mainstream" they have a certain unique quality but the point is I really love the flavour.

Following your recipe landed me pretty much bang on my favourite dish from this restaurant - actually I preferred the one I cooked !!!

Has it opened the door for me to be able to replicate curries from other restaurants I have enjoyed? I am not sure about that.
Has it opened the door for me to be able to replicate gorgeous curries from one particular restaurant that I have loved - ABSOLUTELY YES !!!

I have followed sooo many recipes over the years, always hoping that in exchange for my time and effort I could open the magic pandoras box and have free ( well almost ) restaurant quality curries whenever I wanted them, I have put in a lot of effort but I am not an intuitive cook and so I need to learn from others.

I feel your gravy has provided me with the means to reliably produce fantastic tasting curries of a distinctive style and right now that is enough for me, I am still smiling about it.

Two things stood out for me....

1. Yes everyone says cook the onions really well but somehow the way you described it persuaded me to go much further than usual - as if I was trying to cook them into oblivion.

2. I think the coconut block has something to do with it as well - I have tried coconut milk in the past but the solid stuff is completely different.

Finally after buying all the usual BIR at home books I think I am now on the path I wanted to be on.

Thanks

Jon


Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on August 04, 2019, 09:31 PM
[...] Following your recipe landed me pretty much bang on my favourite dish from this restaurant - actually I preferred the one I cooked !!! [...]

Jon, do please share your recipe !
** Phil.
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: mickdabass on August 05, 2019, 11:20 AM


Has it opened the door for me to be able to replicate curries from other restaurants I have enjoyed? I am not sure about that.
Has it opened the door for me to be able to replicate gorgeous curries from one particular restaurant that I have loved - ABSOLUTELY YES !!!



Hi Jon

Glad you're having success with JB's most excellent Gravy. I have not used any other recipe since JB posted this!!!

To be honest. I find the spicing subtle enough to make the gravy really versatile for just about any bir dish. You just have to tweak the recipe to allow for that.

Just out of interest, whats the name and location of the restaurant you refer to?

Regards

Mick
Title: Re: Jb's takeaway base gravy
Post by: christo on November 10, 2019, 10:40 PM
Just made a batch of this up, first base where I have cooked the onions so much. Used 10 cloves of garlic.
Looking forward to using the base soon