Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: Davegrc on August 17, 2014, 03:02 PM
-
I have attached a PDF file that covers my current methodology to produce curry pastes !
these are fermented pastes so the Lactic acid you see on the label of the commercial curry paste jars is a byproduct of the fermentation process !
I have many different spice blends but the process is the same as described in the attached in producing spice pastes !
The object is to get as close as possible to that perfect curry as you can from a paste and I have set Pataks pastes as my standard ! given I can not buy these where I live
Please I am open to any comments suggestions and questions ! least it be about my spelling or grammar
:) :)
Cheers
-
Great stuff mate very scientific. Not sure about your Hadron Collider though ;)
-
No offence mate, but if you are using Pataks pastes as your standard for the perfect curry, I'm out....
-
Hi
Pataks pastes, BIR curry standard.
Regards
-
Wel, I've never been in a BIR kitchen, but some who have say that commercial paste is standard in small quantities- if that's the case then in order to emulate the BIRs, we would have to use the paste too.
HOWEVER- of course it might depend on which era of BIR cooking we want to aspire to- and if it's from before commercial pastes were being used, then it would indeed be wrong to use it.
Not that there's any real right or wrong in this game, surely?!?! ;)
-
Very impressive Dave. Do you have a background in food science? Not many people would start playing with fermented spice pastes with no prior experience or knowledge of whether the results might be safe to eat. I'm quite impressed though and thanks for sharing.
-
How very dare you! Pataks pastes in a curry? not in my kitchen :o
-
Wel, I've never been in a BIR kitchen, but some who have say that commercial paste is standard in small quantities- if that's the case then in order to emulate the BIRs, we would have to use the paste too.
I agree. There are too many people too ready to dismiss certain ingredients and methods.
Blade's excellent tikka recipe uses some Pataks paste, for a start.
-
Yep have to say I also use Paste in my BIR marinades . :-X
-
Hi
Pataks did not invent curry paste, they saw an existing market they could supply. It's not there fault they became the brand leader.
Regards
-
I've just stumbled across this thread while searching for information on Kashmiri Masala and I have to say I find it a very interesting proposition and the detail provided in the .pdf file is great. If the OP is still hanging around I'd love to ask some questions.
As for the poo-pooing of the Pataks brand, I have to say that after my recent investigations into CTM and Red Masala Sauce / Tikka Sauce, etc, it would seem that if your not using it (in this application anyway)your not following restaurant practise, or at least contemporary practise anyway. I used some commercial Tandoori and Tikka paste but different brands and I didn't have Kashmiri. If I'd have had it here and had to use the P then I would have.
-
I have attached a PDF file that covers my current methodology to produce curry pastes !
these are fermented pastes so the Lactic acid you see on the label of the commercial curry paste jars is a byproduct of the fermentation process !
I have many different spice blends but the process is the same as described in the attached in producing spice pastes !
The object is to get as close as possible to that perfect curry as you can from a paste and I have set Pataks pastes as my standard ! given I can not buy these where I live
Please I am open to any comments suggestions and questions ! least it be about my spelling or grammar
:) :)
Cheers
how does one answer here ````
-
please explain
-
what is wrong with using a pre-made paste or powder as a base, ?? as long as it is good ;);)
-
You will find that there is a divided view, which is fair enough. Some people are quite happy to use commercial pastes, while others would wear garlic chains around their necks and never allow the abomination over their threshold.
Pataks pastes has a particular place of high esteem in the brand most hated or most used. It would appear that it's use in Tikka Marinade is accepted, though not essential.
-
;D ;D ;D ;D ok i see, i use sometimes ready made powders, but now i have finally found i can order from Amazon herbs and have found a small Indiana shop in G
-
I've spent time in Indian restaurants kitchens and I've seen large 2.5kg jars of the pataks madras and balti pastes up on the shelfs and many wholesalers stock these larger 2.5kg jars! but generally they don't like to admit to using it!
I've adapted alot of my curries around then with the addition of fresh curry leaves and certain whole spices can produce a excellent full flavoured curry my favourite one is the Kashmiri paste.
-
The addition of a small amount of Pataks "Mild Curry Paste" to a particular base gravy recipe was one of the first things I investigated here, after I'd read about it over on a RCR. The promised recipe set to go with the sauce never eventuated. I had never seen the stuff, however I did manage to find a large catering sized jar of the pasts at a hospitality / restaurant supplies market and I really like it. It definitely reproduces the T/A / restaurant aroma and taste in any dish and a little goes a long way. I don't use it all the time as I don't want all my curries to taste the same.
Most of the Pataks pastes mentioned on here are not readily available over here. I can get Tandoori but not Balti, Kashmiri or Tikka, or at least not in standard home use jars anyway. There is a Tikka and a Balti pre-made sauce in a can but they are a different thing to a paste. Meat, heat and eat.
-
I've spent time in Indian restaurants kitchens and I've seen large 2.5kg jars of the pataks madras and balti pastes up on the shelfs and many wholesalers stock these larger 2.5kg jars! but generally they don't like to admit to using it!
I've adapted alot of my curries around ? then with the addition of fresh curry leaves and certain whole spices can produce a excellent full flavoured curry my favourite one is the Kashmiri paste.
Your post doesn
-
I've spent time in Indian restaurants kitchens and I've seen large 2.5kg jars of the pataks madras and balti pastes up on the shelfs and many wholesalers stock these larger 2.5kg jars! but generally they don't like to admit to using it!
I've adapted alot of my curries around ? then with the addition of fresh curry leaves and certain whole spices can produce a excellent full flavoured curry my favourite one is the Kashmiri paste.
Your post doesn
-
I've spent time in Indian restaurants kitchens and I've seen large 2.5kg jars of the pataks madras and balti pastes up on the shelfs and many wholesalers stock these larger 2.5kg jars! but generally they don't like to admit to using it!
I've adapted alot of my curries around then with the addition of fresh curry leaves and certain whole spices can produce a excellent full flavoured curry my favourite one is the Kashmiri paste.
I'm sure you are right and it makes perfect sense to me, even if some people are in denial.
-
For the good of the board, please name these individuals IMMEDIATELY.
Or forever hold your peace.
-
Wel, I've never been in a BIR kitchen, but some who have say that commercial paste is standard in small quantities- if that's the case then in order to emulate the BIRs, we would have to use the paste too.
I agree. There are too many people too ready to dismiss certain ingredients and methods.
Blade's excellent tikka recipe uses some Pataks paste, for a start.
Hi George
Different method can raise a few eyebrows and meet with disapproval and people do like to knock your ideas without actually trying them for their selfs!
I like to use the pataks with fresh curry leaves crispy fried onions certain whole spices lamb or mutton slow cooked for 5 hours left to cool then leave in the fridge over night to let the flavours develop! When eaten the next day the taste is amazing
-
Pataks products may contain Genetically Engineered additives - not that Im bothered; Im one of the people in denial? and never, ever use Pataks products.
Regards
Mick
-
Pataks products may contain Genetically Engineered additives
I can understand why having genetically-modified ingredients (such as GM soya beans) could effect a cost-saving, and thereby be beneficial to the manufacturer, but genetically-modified /additives/ ? That makes no sense to me. Can you give an example, please Mick ?
** Phil.
-
Hi Phil.
In a word No but Pataks has brands that are rated 'red' in Greenpeace True Foods Guide 2010, signifying that brands may include GE-derived ingredients in their products.
This includes brands that either: contain GE derived ingredients, and/or, have no clear policy on GE-derived ingredients, and/or: have ignored or refused Greenpeace's request for information regarding their policies on GE-derived ingredients.
Make of that what you will :-X
-
OK, if we agree that it is the ingredients that may be GM rather than the additives, then that makes perfect sense.
** Phil.
-
I don't use any Patak's either, I find the tandoori paste too salty with a nasty aftertaste. They've definetly become more popular in france, the Sri lanki shops around gare du nord seem to sell the whole range, in catering sizes too.
I keep meaning to make the Elachi nis, but can't be bothered paying for 3 different jars that I never use.
I have absolutely no idea or interest if this make my food more or less Bir, I just cook to my taste (and the last couple of time I've bought paste I've ended up throwing it away).
-
OK, if we agree that it is the ingredients that may be GM rather than the additives, then that makes perfect sense.
** Phil.
Apologies for the confusion. I meant to say ingredients in the original comment and not additives. I do agree with fried though about the weird aftertaste. I have at least tried quite a few Pataks pastes and they all have the same problem. What do you think causes it?
Regards
Mick
-
I note George has not returned to justify his assertion.
-
I note George has not returned to justify his assertion.
Which assertion did you have in mind ? As far as I can see, George's sole contributions to this thread are :
Wel, I've never been in a BIR kitchen, but some who have say that commercial paste is standard in small quantities- if that's the case then in order to emulate the BIRs, we would have to use the paste too.
I agree. There are too many people too ready to dismiss certain ingredients and methods.
Blade's excellent tikka recipe uses some Pataks paste, for a start.
and
I've spent time in Indian restaurants kitchens and I've seen large 2.5kg jars of the pataks madras and balti pastes up on the shelfs and many wholesalers stock these larger 2.5kg jars! but generally they don't like to admit to using it! I've adapted a lot of my curries around then with the addition of fresh curry leaves and certain whole spices can produce a excellent full flavoured curry my favourite one is the Kashmiri paste.
I'm sure you are right and it makes perfect sense to me, even if some people are in denial.
** Phil.
-
The latter.
-
The latter.
Then I can't see how he can reasonably be called on to "justify his assertion". George wrote :
I'm sure you are right and it makes perfect sense to me, even if some people are in denial.
which is just a statement of fact : "George is sure that Curry addict Bob is right", followed by a suggestion that others will deny that Bob is right. So the only part that George could reasonably be called on to justify is his assertion that "other people are in denial", and since it is clear from reading earlier contributions that others /do/ deny that Bob is right, no justification would seem to me to be required.
** Phil.
-
For the good of the board, please name these individuals IMMEDIATELY.
Or forever hold your peace.
-
For the good of the board, please name these individuals IMMEDIATELY.
Or forever hold your peace.
Change the record
-
Her we go I recently purchased this I didn't realised knor was something todo with pataks I've use its and to me it didn't seem as concentrate has the normal pataks but I'm not 100% sure if it's the same stuff however it was very good in my opinion! Here is you chance to see what's in it see my photos
-
For the good of the board, please name these individuals IMMEDIATELY.
Or forever hold your peace.
Change the record
Unless you've got anything sensible to post, etc etc.
-
Unless you've got anything sensible to post, etc etc.
Could you spell out, in words of one syllable that even a moron such as myself can understand, to exactly which statements by Bob & George you take exception ?
** Phil.
-
I don't know where Bob comes into it. My original question was to George and it remains- asking him to name those he claims are in denial about the use of pastes. Bob's coment was unnecessary, of course, but no more than that.
-
I've only been on here a short time the 1st video I tried to post I ran into teething problems but onions decided to use bad language aimed at me nearly every single post I've done he's made snide remarks! He's obviously on here to causes trouble I joined this forums because I like talking curry! So onion either grow up or shut up.
-
I don't remember you complaining about the help I gave... short memory.
-
I joined this forums because I like talking curry!
You keep doing that, Bob, because that's why most of us are here. Occasionally someone will throw their toys out of the pram, but with just a few notable exceptions things rapidly get back on track and we all talk curry once again. I may not be a fan of the music overlay on your videos, but I for one appreciate your contributions.
** Phil.
-
I don't remember you complaining about the help I gave... short memory.
After you used the bad language aim at me! I'm no pushover I like to have a joke and I believe I have a good sence of humor so I'm always up for a bit of good humoured banter so come on onions play the game.
-
I joined this forums because I like talking curry!
You keep doing that, Bob, because that's why most of us are here. Occasionally someone will throw their toys out of the pram, but with just a few notable exceptions things rapidly get back on track and we all talk curry once again. I may not be a fan of the music overlay on your videos, but I for one appreciate your contributions.
** Phil.
Thanks Phil I'm gonna do one without the music just to keep you happy! Lol
-
I don't remember you complaining about the help I gave... short memory.
After you used the bad language aim at me! I'm no pushover I like to have a joke and I believe I have a good sence of humor so I'm always up for a bit of good humoured banter so come on onions play the game.
The PROBLEM, Bob is that a GSOH is so often misunderstood. Anyway you joked about the language if you'd taken it seriously I'm sure i would have NEARLY apologised. Stone me?
-
I don't remember you complaining about the help I gave... short memory.
After you used the bad language aim at me! I'm no pushover I like to have a joke and I believe I have a good sence of humor so I'm always up for a bit of good humoured banter so come on onions play the game.
You'll like the t-shirt then...
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x355/dave-random/70c1971a-3f47-4f88-b0ce-26e8ac7c6185.jpg)
-
Ha ha yes I like it cheers.
-
Anyway, back on topic, The large Madras paste may be (and I say may be as I don't have one to hand) the same as the large Madras Kebab paste which is different from the small jar.
Its been covered on here before.
-
Yes gav its probably is the same I only have the Kashmiri in the large 2.5kg
they also do a mild in the large but to been honest they are to big for general household use.
-
And unless somebody trades in empty Pataks jars, you can usually see them on the shelves of countless Youtube BIR kitchen videos.
-
Anyway, back on topic, The large Madras paste may be (and I say may be as I don't have one to hand) the same as the large Madras Kebab paste which is different from the small jar. Its been covered on here before.
I thought that the kebab paste didn't exist in a small version.
** Phil.
-
I think it does exist it's called madras kebab but could be wrong.
-
I thought that the kebab paste didn't exist in a small version.
** Phil.
It doesn't Phil and I wasn't quite clear. A lot of people assume they are the same paste. I was comparing the large Knorr madras to the large Madras Kebab.
-
It doesn't Phil and I wasn't quite clear. A lot of people assume they are the same paste. I was comparing the large Knorr madras to the large Madras Kebab.
Ah, all is now clear. I don't have any Madras paste per se (either Knorr or Pataks) but I do have the large Madras Kebab paste, so if I come across a small Madras paste I will buy and compare.
** Phil.
-
I've tried most of them I ended up buying the large jars a few years ago but this was a mistake I've
Had to bin them out of date! I do have a large of Kashmiri still in date and a recently bought the knorr
It a 1.1kg jar so I have a better chance of using it up.
-
I can put my pruning shears away then as we seemed to have returned to the subject in hand, about which many members have differing opinions, to which they are all entitled, and which they may if they wish justify.
And for the record, prevocative posts have no place here when their sole intention is to cause trouble. The topic of pastes has always encouraged views from the different camps, which is good and promotes healthy debate. But sadly in this instance one unnecessary comment has generated 2 pages of off-topic sniping which has nothing to do with curry pastes.
Personally, I will continue to use them for specific things if there is no suitable alternative that will deliver the desired results. They are very much a feature in today's BIR kitchens, for better or for worse. Ultimately, it is the chef's choice, and some are more discerning and skilled than others.
-
I am familiar with the "usual" Pataks aftertaste that has been mentioned, but I can also say that I've only experienced this with the small home use jars purchased from the Supermarkets. The large commercial jar of Mild Curry Paste (Knorr / Pataks) does not have this undesirable quality at all. I agree with Bob's concise method involving leaving the finished curry for a day to fully develop flavour. Always better the second day.
As for keeping it over time, it says on the label to "not refrigerate" and to "use within 6 months of opening". I'll have to go and check mine since I've had it longer than that, but I'm pretty confident it will still be fine. Plenty of food lasts well past the UBD or BBD. Take yogurt for example.
-
Patakas small Madras paste, in my opinion is for the home cook, the cook without knowledge of BIR cooking! Yes the large 2.3kg kebab tubs can and will be used in a commercial setting for marinades and such, but it's not used to make Madras BIR curry that I know.
Thanks.
-
Ultimately, it is the chef's choice, and some are more discerning and skilled than others.
I'm pleased we might be in agreement for once!
-
I've tried most of them I ended up buying the large jars a few years ago but this was a mistake I've
Had to bin them out of date! I do have a large of Kashmiri still in date and a recently bought the knorr
It a 1.1kg jar so I have a better chance of using it up.
I have been using the same large Kashmiri here for almost 8 YEARS unrefridgerated, when it starts to dry up a little add oil to it, no problems or issues whatsoever.
do not bin it, ignore the use by date stamp as must have it by law, natural spices are natural preservatives including the oil.
It will last forever!
-
I have been using the same large Kashmiri here for almost 8 YEARS unrefridgerated, when it starts to dry up a little add oil to it, no problems or issues whatsoever. do not bin it, ignore the use by date stamp as must have it by law, natural spices are natural preservatives including the oil. It will last forever!
Very much of the same opinion as Artist Paul -- "use-by dates are for the guidance of the wise and the blind obedience of the foolish".
** Phil.
-
And me too on that. My home made Balti paste is as good as the day I made it.
-
Well I must admit I may have binned them in haste I did top them up with
fresh oil and they seemed ok even though they was 6 years old
but that's me always play safe! looks like I may have wasted my money.
-
I wouldn't count pennies after 6 years Bob. I'm pretty sure you could get some new ones now and still be OK with the Bank manager.
-
I made one of the Chinese curry pastes on this forum probably two or three years ago now. The last portion was in a Tupperware container and I made a curry up from it last week with no ill effects and no real loss of flavour.
-
If i'm reading this all correctly it shows how long a paste can last - 6 years - amazing!
So what's in it? or is it just the top up of oil that keeps it?
Either way its good value at 6 years.... wish we could get some out here!
best, Rich
-
I wouldn't count pennies after 6 years Bob. I'm pretty sure you could get some new ones now and still be OK with the Bank manager.
Ha ha too true livo.
-
I do agree with fried though about the weird aftertaste. I have at least tried quite a few Pataks pastes and they all have the same problem.
Until today I had used only the domestic-sized Patak's pastes, but wanting to pre-cook 1/5 of a half-price leg of (New Zealand) lamb I had bought recently I decided to open my catering-size Patak's Madras Kebab paste, and what a revelation it proved ...
The pre-cook was simplicity itself : cold-pressed Soya oil and g/g paste gently bhooned together, then the Patak's paste added, more bhooning, some lamb stock, a gentle reduction, then the lamb. All tossed and turned together until thoroughly coated and impregnated, and then left to cook under a lid for about fifteen minutes. When I judged that the lamb was firm enough, I removed one piece and cut off a small slice to try. Very nice. But then I tried the sauce, and "moreish" just does not do it justice. I would willingly eat that sauce all by itself. So, I think that this goes some way to confirm that even if the domestic Patak's paste contribute an unpleasant after-taste, the same is not necessarily true of the catering blends, and the Madras Kebab paste is a clear winner to my mind.
** Phil.
P.S. My very sincere thanks to Vin Daloo (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,399.msg3612.html#msg3612) for bringing the existence of this paste to the Forum's attention, way back in 2005 ...
-
Yes I agree I've been using pataks for years with fantastic results! I've formulated over 15 different recipes
Using pataks catering paste! They are based on pataks,crispy fried onions, fresh curry leaves,different whole spice
and other stuff depending on which type of curry I'm doing
slow cooked under a lid if I'm using lamb mutton or goat these curries
Taste amazing IMO! The cooking method is nothing like BIR cooking I will do a video without the music and you may wish to
Give it a go.
-
I will do a video without the music and you may wish to give it a go.
Please do, Bob; I very much look forward to seeing the video and trying the recipe.
** Phil.
P.S. "crispy fried onions" : from a jar, or home-made ?
-
Hi Phil the crispy fried onions add a really in depth flavour to a curry and work hand in glove with pataks paste IMO! the amount used is around 2 x TBS per curry no need to fry them,
I buy them from the wholesalers
-
Hi Phil the crispy fried onions add a really in depth flavour to a curry and work hand in glove with pataks paste IMO! the amount used is around 2 x TBS per curry no need to fry them, I buy them from the wholesalers
-
This is a smaller bag I have
-
And these are mine (1Kg for
-
Same thing but yours cost less.
-
Same thing but yours cost less.
I'm no tight, laddie; I'm careful ... :)
-
I use these, very nice as a a rice garnish.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/8511eea887b9e6fa846121c44e9c4ba4.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#8511eea887b9e6fa846121c44e9c4ba4.jpg)
cheers Chewy
-
I'm not sold on using a Pataks paste in a homemade traditional curry. It might be ok but why not do your own pastes, basically a spice mix, cooked with either water and\or vinegar and topped up with oil, sealed in a sterilised jar.
I found the ones bought in the supermarkets very salty and not much flavour, ok'ish but not what I'd use if i was doing a traditional curry. I have no idea about the merits with BIR as i'm still learning BIR style and have enough to learn than use these pastes