Curry Recipes Online
Beginners Guide => Hints, Tips, Methods and so on.. => Cooking Methods => Topic started by: Korma Chameleon on October 19, 2014, 06:24 PM
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I've been cooking curry's over 20 years, but only in the last couple of years did I get into base sauce. Amazing how you can knock up a curry so quick.
Lots of different chefs method's are very similar but very wordy, which tends to make them seem different and can have you lose focus on the main thread. While documenting, I try and keep things simple and put the rest of the "fluff" down to experience. This way I managed pull together 9 completely different curry recipes in 1.5 pages of A4. Essentially it's a super short, concise, ebook. Thought I'd share. Not sure if this is the best place for such a thing, but I see this thread as more about 'keeping it simple', using a standard approach, adapted slightly for each recipe, and less about the recipes themselves. Follow this standard approach, and take ideas out of other peoples recipes to try and match what you are looking for in your own curry.
CURRY METHOD
Pre-fry
6 tbs veg oil
1-2 tsp garlic & ginger paste
1-2 tbs fine chopped onion & green pepper
Fry above until just before browning.
Spice fry
1 tsp chilli powder
Spices
Add above and fry some seconds.
Main cook
1 portion base sauce
1 tsp salt
1 portion of pre-cooked meat
On high heat, add some base sauce bit by bit to prevent the spices burning. Add the salt. Add the meat. Reduce to simmer. Thicken the sauce to the desired consistency.
Late additions
Add the aromatics and other late additions and simmer for a minute or 2.
THE CURRY'S
You'll notice I only fill in the blanks below. The ingredients in the curry's below are to be ADDED to the standard cook outlined above...
Standard
Spice fry: 1/2 tsp cumin powder.
Late additions: 1 tsp garam masala, pinch fenugreek leaves, fresh coriander.
Madras
Pre-fry: 1 tbs tomato puree, 1 tsp lemon juice, 1/2 tsp Worcestershire sauce.
Spice fry: 1 tsp mix powder.
Late additions: pinch fenugreek leaves.
Jalfrazi
Pre-fry: half onion, half green pepper, half red pepper, 1 star anasi, 1 tbs tomato puree.
Spice fry: 1 tsp cumin powder.
Late additions: 1/2 tsp garam masala, pinch fenugreek leaves, fresh coriander.
Bhuna
Spice fry: 1 tsp coriander powder.
Late additions: 1/2 tsp garam masala, fresh coriander.
Bhuna Masala
Pre-fry: 50g mushrooms, half green pepper.
Spice fry: 1 tsp cumin powder.
Main cook: 1/4 tsp red food colour powder.
Late additions: 1.5 tsp garam masala, pinch fenugreek leaves, fresh coriander.
Do-Piaza
Pre-fry: 2 small onions (cut in strips).
Spice fry: 1 tsp cumin powder, 1/2 tsp coriander powder.
Late additions: 1 tsp garam masala, pinch fenugreek leaves, fresh coriander.
Korma
Change to standard: only 4 tbs veg oil, no ginger & garlic paste, no onion & green pepper, no chilli powder.
Spice fry: 1 tsp cumin powder.
Main cook: 2 tbs finely ground cashew nuts, 1/4 tsp yellow food colour powder.
Late additions: 150ml single cream, 1/2 tsp garam masala.
Sagwala
Change to standard: 7 tbs veg oil.
Spice fry: 2 brown cardamoms.
Main cook: 200g well chopped frozen or tinned spinach.
Late additions: 1.5 tsp garam masala.
Rogan Josh
Spice fry: 1 tsp cumin powder, 2 tsp paprika.
Late additions: 2 tbs yoghurt, 1 rough chopped tomato, 1 tsp garam masala, pinch fenugreek leaves, fresh coriander.
My favourites are the Jalfrazi & Sagwala, both made unique with the addition of their respective hard whole spice. Keeping my recipes written simple like this allows me to see easily what it is that contributes to the flavour of each curry, and so more easily pick out problem additions or omissions as I continue my search for perfection. My current base sauce of choice is Chewy's, which I split into 6 portions and cook with 400-500g meat.
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That's a really good way of presenting recipes. A big LIKE from me.
Cheers,
Tim
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Same here http://www.notdelia.co.uk/british-indian-restaurant-curry-different-curry-styles/ (http://www.notdelia.co.uk/british-indian-restaurant-curry-different-curry-styles/)
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That's a good reference table
Keep it simple
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Same here http://www.notdelia.co.uk/british-indian-restaurant-curry-different-curry-styles/ (http://www.notdelia.co.uk/british-indian-restaurant-curry-different-curry-styles/)
That's interesting; I'm not the only one :D. So in a flash I can see what I can take from those recipes and what I wouldn't want to take. It well illustrates how such an approach can aid your own progress. For example, the key difference in your link between Madras and Vindaloo (other than chilli) is lemon vs. vinegar. But a Jalfrazi without pepper is not a Jalfrazi for me. But of course we have our own regional expectations, so when in such a format, such things are easy to see and tailor.
In almost 20 years of cooking curry from scratch, I had a strong portfolio of 2 curries. Inside 2 years using the base sauce approach, I have a strong portfolio of 9, and quickly growing.
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Thanks for Sharing, KC :) Although I wouldn't go along with all your recipes, I agree wholeheartedly with the concept.
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Thanks for Sharing, KC :)
Should you be thanking KC or the person behind notdelia? Or are they one and the same?
KC - please clarify.
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Should you be thanking KC or the person behind notdelia? Or are they one and the same?
KC - please clarify.
I'm not really that bothered, George. Was just being nice :)
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Thanks for Sharing, KC :)
Should you be thanking KC or the person behind notdelia? Or are they one and the same?
KC - please clarify.
It's not me if that's what you are asking. I'm actually Delia incognito :-*. I've never before seen a recipe written in such a way. Such probably does exist, and proven now, but I developed my shortened approach on my own and for my own benefit. That said, when I look deeper into the recipes in the nondelia link, base sauce etc., it's not really close to what I aim for. Some of it looks like it probably wouldn't turn out so well, like for instance having 4 tsp of spice mix as well as the other spices added to make each curry for 2. It strikes me that would be over spiced. But that's sort of irrelevant to my thread, as what I bring to the party here is the concise method approach, one that helps me and would probably aid others who tried it.
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I'm not sure I can unpick who is and who isn't Not Delia, but whoever invented the format, I can only restate that I like the idea of recipes being presented in a shorthand that competent chefs will understand.
It always gets my back up when someone who has just eaten at my table casually says that I might like to email them *the recipe*. (This has happened in restaurants as well as at home.) They don't stop to think that I have just done a technical job that took years of hard yards to learn, and they assume that I can just send them a page of A4 or maybe a Tweet to explain how. [I'm trying really hard not to use rude words like patronising (moderated) here.]
When you get off a bus you don't ask the driver to text you how to drive a Routemaster. Airline pilots are not asked to scribble down how they do it so someone can have a go at home. I'm not remotely comparing my competency with that of an A380 captain, but the hours that are required to reach his/her competency are not dissimilar.
To be fair, a few people have phrased their request as: Could you teach me to cook this? But no-one has ever asked: How long would I take to learn to cook this? [Two years. Minimum.]
This rant has a conclusion: it is a great pleasure to be in the company of people who know what they are doing and can share recipes in shorthand like this.
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I'm trying really hard not to use rude words like patronising (moderated) here.]
No you're not. You are going out of the way to use bad language and break the rules. You should be ashamed of yourself.
As for taking 2 years to learn how to cook a recipe, perhaps you're a very slow learner. More like 5 minutes, if you have a good recipe. It's not like learning to play a musical instrument or fly an aircraft, is it?
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Don't worry mac, I knew what you were saying man.
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As for taking 2 years to learn how to cook a recipe, perhaps you're a very slow learner. More like 5 minutes, if you have a good recipe. It's not like learning to play a musical instrument or fly an aircraft, is it?
Well, yes, I think that that is exactly what it is like. Any fool can buy a violin, some sheet music, and a copy of "Learn to play like Yehudi Menuhin in five minutes". And twenty years later, they will probably still sound like a cat being castrated. A good recipe is a help, yes; but a real chef has ten, twenty, even fifty years of experience under his belt, and the better ones will admit they are still learning after all that time.
** Phil.
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Same here http://www.notdelia.co.uk/british-indian-restaurant-curry-different-curry-styles/ (http://www.notdelia.co.uk/british-indian-restaurant-curry-different-curry-styles/)
Basic shorthand concept is similar but the ingredients and prep are quite different when examined, plus the dishes are alphabetically listed.
It also appears the notdelia is another of the "list onion as an ingredient but don't use it brigade".
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Same here http://www.notdelia.co.uk/british-indian-restaurant-curry-different-curry-styles/ (http://www.notdelia.co.uk/british-indian-restaurant-curry-different-curry-styles/)
Basic shorthand concept is similar but the ingredients and prep are quite different when examined, plus the dishes are alphabetically listed.
It also appears the notdelia is another of the "list onion as an ingredient but don't use it brigade".
Yes indeed. I now realise that KC's text is not the same at all, so apologies to KC for suggesting it looked like a straight copy.
The thing that irritates me about the notdelia author is zero acknowledgment on where he or she is coming from. You'd think it was all a result of original research, which it most certainly is not.
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My shorthand approach is far superior to notdelia, but then I would say that wouldn't I :P. As the last post points out, there are obvious differences when you look in detail. In short I'd say my approach is much closer to that which is considered standard here, and it would be I guess, given that much of what I've learned has come from here.
So, if I've managed to persuade that this came from me and I'm not affiliated to anyone else...
I'm convinced that BIR chefs think in this simplified way. Yes they'll have some specials, but the bulk of the menu will be built around their own base sauce and a few simple differences for each curry. And although the differences between my listed recipes seem very subtle, each does return a very different curry.
All I ever do when I review a recipe is to pick out what it is that makes that curry unique and adapt it to my own method. So far I'm really happy with most of my recipes, but some are a bit weak and need further research. I must say though that it's tough to trawl through all the recipes on this site and pick out the subtleties of each curry; it would be great if there was a simple "short-hand" resource. So Garp, you say you wouldn't go along with all my recipes; I'd be interested to hear which in particular and what you'd do instead?
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The thing that irritates me about the notdelia author is zero acknowledgment on where he or she is coming from. You'd think it was all a result of original research, which it most certainly is not.
I've certainly seen the Base Sauce recipe before today.
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More like 5 minutes, if you have a good recipe. It's not like learning to play a musical instrument or fly an aircraft, is it?
One further thought is that it's not easy to find a good recipe, of course. That's where most of my time goes. I can only make two or three dishes that stand any chance of matching the quality of taste from the best BIRs. Another damper is being familiar with the taste one is aiming for. I've never ordered or eaten a madras, bhuna, dupiaza, vindaloo or dozens of other popular dishes in a BIR so I wouldn't know where to start.
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Add to that the fact that these Indian dish names are used rather liberally to refer to something with spices. ??? My next misguided project will be to attempt to determine exactly what constitutes a dish having any given title. I'm pre-OCD and probably anal retentive as well, but it just sets my buzzer off when there is inconsistency and poor standardisation. :o Weights and measures and things of that nature are easily remedied, but naming of completely different things as the same is just bothersome and in my view counterproductive to say the least. :-\
Bring out the poison darts. I'm ready for you. :D :D
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Keeping it simple is so important when learning to cook some complex meals
A Bir chef once advised me to learn to cook a basic chicken curry
When its good every time and only then start playing with spices and different recipes
Like the saying " learn to walk before you run"
Anyone in agreement ? ;D
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Apologies for the profanity. I was not quite myself - it turns out I was going down with man flu. So now I am a slow learner with a stinking cold :(
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There's also this as well http://ramkicooks.wordpress.com/ (http://ramkicooks.wordpress.com/)
Think these recipes have been posted on here before but still worth a try.
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Keeping it simple is so important when learning to cook some complex meals
A Bir chef once advised me to learn to cook a basic chicken curry
When its good every time and only then start playing with spices and different recipes
Like the saying " learn to walk before you run"
Anyone in agreement ? ;D
See this old thread and my comments halfway down page 1
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,8020.msg70997.html#msg70997 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,8020.msg70997.html#msg70997)
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A Bir chef once advised me to learn to cook a basic chicken curry. Anyone in agreement ?
Most definitely.
** Phil.
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hi KC impressed that you have added 9 curries to your BIR repertoire :-) and I know that they are your take on these dishes! but I never seen or had a Bhuna without onions and pepper? or a korma without either ground almonds and or coconut powder and sugar, as cashews I would consider a luxury and I'm sure too expensive unless in one of Bir chefs special or a garnish at the end of cooking :D!?! ;) have you checked out the work of Bruce Edwards on cr0 and is where my curries changed for the better lol or my wife thought so! and that inspired me to get into BIR kitchens ( the maharaja, Rajver and Mouchak of which the recipes are posted on here) and even end up cooking my own curries in there ;) LOL this is only my humble opinion and is not meant cause offence by any means :) I do use star anise in my chicken chilli masala which is the same recipe from Bruce Edwards curryhouse cookery the smell of it cooking with the onions, green pepper and green chillies is amazing and yummy too!
kind regards
gary
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As for taking 2 years to learn how to cook a recipe, perhaps you're a very slow learner. More like 5 minutes, if you have a good recipe. It's not like learning to play a musical instrument or fly an aircraft, is it?
Just watched Nigel Slater saying he's been on about 40 years trying to replicate his step mothers Lemon Meringue pie and he can't do it. ::)
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Just watched Nigel Slater saying he's been on about 40 years trying to replicate his step mothers Lemon Meringue pie and he can't do it. ::)
And he started young too!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1658851/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1658851/)
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I have been told the same thing Noble Ox - a trainee chef gets told to cook a medium chicken curry over and over again until it clicks. When I am trying a place for the first time, I sometimes order that because it's such a standard. I have also been told by more than one chef that they had to train for 2 years before being allowed to cook unsupervised. Not quite the 10,000 hours they say you need to master a musical instrument, but in the same order of magnitude.
I believe it has something to do with more and more of the task becoming instinctive and unconscious, which brings me back to the point I was trying - possibly not well - to make, which is that more experienced chefs find highly condensed recipes more intuitive and useful than the slavish lists of ingredients and processes that we find in most cookbooks. So there comes a point at which the request "Could you write down the recipe for me?" becomes hard to fulfill. Maybe a more useful question would be "Can I film you doing this?" which has always worked better for me,
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It makes so much sense that way
As humans we get over ambitious and carried away trying to learn too much too soon
A little discipline and patience will go miles ;D
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as cashews I would consider a luxury and I'm sure too expensive unless in one of Bir chefs special or a garnish at the end of cooking
Out here there is little or no difference in the cost of cashews and almonds and often cashews are cheaper. This says either we are getting our cashews very cheap or are being ripped on our almonds.
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Interesting you say that, Livo. Apparently about half the world's almonds are grown in California and the recent droughts there have caused farmers to sell their reserve stocks to make up for successive poor harvests. So the price of almonds is about to go through the roof.
This is a whole separate area of discussion, so I think I'll start another thread.
Cheers,
MacFerret
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I have also been told by more than one chef that they had to train for 2 years before being allowed to cook unsupervised. Not quite the 10,000 hours they say you need to master a musical instrument, but in the same order of magnitude.
Over 17,000 ;) lol
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I'm trying really hard not to use rude words like patronising (moderated) here.]
No you're not. You are going out of the way to use bad language and break the rules. You should be ashamed of yourself.
As for taking 2 years to learn how to cook a recipe, perhaps you're a very slow learner. More like 5 minutes, if you have a good recipe. It's not like learning to play a musical instrument or fly an aircraft, is it?
You can be a really moderated moderated sometimes :D :P
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I've never ordered or eaten a madras, bhuna, dupiaza, vindaloo or dozens of other popular dishes in a BIR so I wouldn't know where to start.
Cheese on toast anyone? LOOOOOOL
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(moderated) (moderated) (moderated) korma (moderated) :)
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You can be a really moderated moderated sometimes :D :P
And you are probably the closest thing to a troll on this forum.
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You don't know what that is. Unless a certain floozepaper tells you it sends house prices down!!! LOL
PS- I expect the Duke of Edinburgh did have Diana assassinated too :P
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You can be a really moderated moderated sometimes :D :P
And you are probably the closest thing to a troll on this forum.
That was so funny I moderated myself laughing ;) lol
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I've never ordered or eaten a madras, bhuna, dupiaza, vindaloo or dozens of other popular dishes in a BIR so I wouldn't know where to start.
Cheese on toast anyone? LOOOOOOL
Tim Berners-Lee: hateful people on the web are 'staggering'
The web developer expressed his hope for a more civil internet in the future that will
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The point- and I have no beef with what you do or do not like!- is that excluding your list, there is MODERATED-ALL left on the menu!!! ;) :D
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Hi,
thanks for this. question: how much is a portion of base curry ?
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how much is a portion of base curry ?
Are you buying or selling already ?
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fishypops when I make curries using Taz base I start off with 400ml of base. The is cooked in two stages of 200ml each time. The first 200ml gets cooked right down till it forms a dry paste. The second 200ml gets added to make the finished sauce and is reduced to a finished sauce consistency that I like, i.e. not too runny, not too thick. This is done by sight and by feel.
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@Stephen,
Thanks a lot for this advice. Every little bit goes into the bank. Does anyone know if there is a section for 'tidbits of advice' ?
I know that there are many different ways of cooking a curry, but it takes such a long time to go through each of the posts and distill the information down. That is why KC's method appeals, because he distills the method down to an essence. His may or may not result in the best curries, but it helps wading through the options.
In the same way, if there were a 'tips/'tidbits' section for the kind of advice that Stephen has given, that would be really helpful. Again thanks Stephen.
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It results in the best curries of course ;D. 4 guests coming for a curry this Sunday.
And here curryhell's two NIS's broken down. Not done these yet, so the shorthand might need some minor adjustment, but looking forward to them. Had been looking for a curry with tamarind and tandoori masala. Those who go to the troube to compare with curryhell's original posts will notice I skip seperate prep of sauces or similar and just add the largest contributing factor. For example, in #1, I substitute Chewy's Red Masala Sauce with yoghurt and red food colour; the spice and oil I have already. I have also adjusted for my preference, like the removal of Patak's paste, which I hate.
North Indian Special 1
Pre-fry: 1/2 medium onion, 1/4 green pepper, 3 garlic cloves (thick sliced).
Spice fry: 1.5 tsp CA mix powder, 1 tsp tandoori masala, 3/4 tbs tomato puree, fresh chilli.
Main cook: Chicken Tikka, 1/2 tsp tamarind, 1/4 tsp red food colour, 1 tbs yoghurt.
Late additions: fresh coriander.
North Indian Special 2
Change to standard: no ginger.
Pre-fry: 1/2 medium onion, 1/4 green pepper.
Spice fry: 1.5 tsp CA mix powder, 1/2 tsp tandoori masala, 3/4 tbs tomato puree, fresh chilli.
Main cook: Chicken Tikka, 3 tsp mango chutney, 1 tbs lemon juice.
Late additions: fresh coriander.
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I just did NIS1 above and it was spot on; no tweaking necessary. Never had a NIS in a BIR, but was great as a new distinct curry to add to the repertoire!
The Tandoori Masala didn't come through as strong as I was expecting, so it coud be increased a bit with no worry. Makes me think the half teaspoon on the NIS2 won't be enough.
First time I ever cooked with tamarind. Now I know what that underlying flavour is that I get from my own favourite BIR. Damn; only took me 20 years to figure it out.
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20 years isn't that long KC ;)
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I know this thread has spun away from topic more than once, but the question of "when to add gravy and how much" is important. Much easier to show in a video, but as I am using words, here are some common errors that we see when we run BIR courses:
- gravy in too soon: you need to COOK those spices before you deglaze
- too much gravy at deglaze: you need just enough to stop the spices from burning. Pan flashes are a good sign at this stage.
- cold gravy: NOOOOO!!!
- second ladle of gravy is too soon: the sauce needs to be split and frying before you add the second ladle of gravy. Some crusting is good - and putting the gravy around the edge of the pan helps to loosen the caramelized crusty stuff.
- above all, make sure the gravy is runny. It should be like a thin soup.
[This advice is good for most sauces except korma (depending on how you cook it). We cook korma in the following sequence: hot pan; seasoned salt; oil; white sugar; ground almonds; gravy; coconut milk powder; more gravy; condensed milk; cream; protein; let it crust; more gravy if needed; ghee.]
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Good advice macferret apart from adding oil to a korma! The base is oily enough without needing any extra.
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Good advice macferret apart from adding oil to a korma! The base is oily enough without needing any extra.
If there were such a thing as "the base", Santa, then your assertion might be defensible. But as the set of bases is finite but uncountable, I cannot see on what you base your hypothesis.
** Phil.
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I agree that oily korma is not nice. I have seen it arrive swimming in oil, but this seems to have passed out of fashion with UK chefs, probably because since veg oil became pegged to the price of crude oil they can't afford to get through so much of it.
Our korma seems to swallow up amazing amounts of oil and ghee without it splitting out and sitting on top. probably due to the almond powder and coconut. I have never worked out how many calories there are in a portion. It must run to 4 figures. But people - especially kids and ladies of a certain age - seem to like it. So while I have watched chefs cook a perfectly nice-looking korma in a dry pan, I don't want to mess with the recipe.
I have always thought of korma as the odd one out in the BIR repertoire: it is one of the most expensive sauces to prepare; it is always a joy to see on the ticket because it's so quick and easy to cook; and it is often ordered by people who don't actually like curry!
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- gravy in too soon: you need to COOK those spices before you deglaze
I don't think this is necessarily true, MacF.
One of my favourite recipes on here is Stephen's Punjabi Masala, in which the base is added first, reduced, then spices added, then reduced further, then more base added, etc etc.
There are more ways than one to achieve the same end result :)
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Yes, it's not the intent of this thread to offer a perfect curry from start to finish. It's intended to show a shorthand approach that can aid recipe building, for those who already have good knowledge. Korma definately needs less oil, and that is touched on in the OP. How much less depends on personal preference and the base used. You need to adapt your final curries to each base in any case, with different levels of salt, oil, chilli, etc.; trial and error as you work through different bases.
There was some discussion earlier about the ingredients listed in my Korma. Despite my profile name, I'm not a big Korma fan, but my first and only Korma effort produced an excellent curry, which tasted just like restaurant Korma. So I ticked Korma off my list and moved on. Rogan Josh is proving more difficult; I have captured the basic undertones but not quite in the right proportions yet.
There are also loads of little skills you build to support all this, such as knowing the right final consistancy of the sauce, being sure there is a good period for cooking the spices, and daft things like frying capsicum longer than onion because onion goes softer quicker. Little things which make a big difference.
Chewy's video's, and in particular H4ppyChris's Chef Shams video's, are an easy way to pick up loads of tips. I recenty followed Chef Shams Bombay Potato; the first time I ever tried anything like it and it just came together easily and produced a restaurant standard potato curry side. Again, it was the base sauce that helped bring it all togther, fast and tasty.
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- gravy in too soon: you need to COOK those spices before you deglaze
I don't think this is necessarily true, MacF.
One of my favourite recipes on here is Stephen's Punjabi Masala, in which the base is added first, reduced, then spices added, then reduced further, then more base added, etc etc.
There are more ways than one to achieve the same end result :)
Very true. I have seen chefs start with the gravy too, but I have never tried it. Maybe I should have said "I need to cook the spices...." Using the method I follow, undercooking the spices makes for a poor sauce.
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I don't seem to find an edit button to update my OP. Anyway, today I finally I cracked Rogan Josh (1990's Bradford). My kitchen smells like the restaurant where I used to get this. My OP version was close, just needed a few tweaks.
Here the new recipe (in shorthand of course; see OP for details):
ROGAN JOSH
Spice fry: 1 tsp cumin powder, 2 tsp paprika
Late additions: 1 tbs yoghurt, 2 chopped fresh tomatoes, 1 tsp garam masala, pinch fenugreek leaves, 0.5 tsp sugar, 0.5 tsp tamarind concentrate, fresh coriander.
Turn off heat: 2 fresh tomatoes cut into wedges.
I continued my trek through various bases, but none of them beat Chewy's 3 hour. So my search ended. I do tweak Chewy's a little myself now though, adding a bit of coconut block and the widely used base approach of boiling up some hard spices and adding the stock back in.
My mad drive towards curry perfection slowed somewhat given I now have a base I'm very happy with, and a portfolio of curries wider than my normal restaurant menu adventures. So my challenge became Chinese and Thai food, and most recently I started brewing beer from grain. Oh happy days.