Curry Recipes Online
British Indian Restaurant Recipes - Main Dishes => BIR Main Dishes Chat => Topic started by: curryhell on February 11, 2015, 10:21 PM
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This seems to be the best place to start posting info relating to my journey to achieving something close my local BIR's interpretation of "chicken vindaloo". It certainly may not please the purists in terms of what the dish should be or what it should contain, but it's what i enjoy and am happy to eat day in day out. I can see the shaking of some heads already ;D but i don't really care what others think, as long as i achieve my aim. If i haven't raised the bar high enough for some people, I ain't gonna lose any sleep over it. My idea of the best BIR food will be different from many others on the site. It certainly does not extend to large plates with a meagre portion placed in the centre surrounded by carefully placed meaningless garnish :o Give me a good full plate of tasty BIR food any day. I can easily forgive the lack of fancy superfluous presentation frills ;D
Anyway, the journey begins in true CR0 style, with the thread getting derailed almost immediately, this time by its starter, rather than somebody else ::)
Last Saturday, having been celebrating my birthday (for most of the week), my fellow revellers and I ended up in our usual BIR south of the river. To cut a long story short, i order my normal dish, yes you've guessed it, with fresh green chillis of course. Very enjoyable and totally different to that supplied by my normal local BIR. The meal was coming to a close when i made the fateful mistake of sampling a spoonful from a dish i'd heard of and was on my radar (CR0 influenced of course). A friend had ordered chicken rezalla and i thought i'd just see how it tasted.
Based on the raptures my tongue and mouth went into when the first spoonful of this hit the tastebuds, the vindaloo journey immediately stalled :o I was blown away by a curry which had no heat, just loads of well balanced tandoori flavours combined with chicken tikka and mince meat in a thickish red tandoori sauce. I know some of you are thinking "he must be unwell" or "he's been away from the kitchen too long" or "he's lost it completely". Yes, I actually had found a dish, totally devoid of heat that rang my bells and pushed all my curry buttons ;D
Subsequently, I've read all there is to read on rezalla on here, from the 80's dish recounted by CT to a dish which could well include CTM ingredients and a few more. I have some ideas already about how to start to recreate it but am keen to hear of others experiences and descriptions of rezalla dishes they have eaten in BIR's. I will need to obtain a control sample of the dish against which I can compare my efforts which will require me to venture once again south of the river. This will obviously be a long term project with much more complexity than the vindaloo journey I feel. Hopefully I'll get close to both :D
All on topic contributions are now most welcome ;)
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Curryhell,have you tried the Rezalla,or even better the balti rezalla from Spices?? I normally have this and I have to say it's one of the tastiest dishes I've had in a long time.I have no idea how they make it(although I have asked of course!).I've tried it at other places and it's nothing like the Spices' version,usually milder with mango pulp.If I could replicate that I would be more than happy.
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No heat, eh? Who'd have thunk it? :)
It'll be really interesting to see where you end up in this quest, Dave. My only experience of Rezalla is via Chewy's excellent post and it has now become a firm favourite with everyone in my household. I can't ever recall seeing the dish on any of the local menus.
I did a similar exercise with Jalandhari, but unfortunately didn't get much further forward than filling in the blanks left by PanPot on the Ashoka dish. Still, if your enquiries get any further forward with the Rezalla than mine did with the Jalandhari, it'll definitely be worth doing.
Good luck, mate! :)
PS: I should have added that there is a decent amount of heat in Chewy's Rezalla between the mix powder, chilli powder and black pepper. Plenty scope to further tickle those tastebuds with fresh chillies too! :)
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Not a dish i'd ever tried jb until Saturday last. Next trip to spices i'll give it a go. Not easy to replicate their dishes though, is it, especially as you don't get much if any info out of them >:(
Rezalla is not uncommon down this end Keith. I really need to get back over to the restaurant where i tasted it to eat it again and get a control sample to bring home. Not as if it delivers to my area due to the Thames separating Essex from Kent. Will be an interesting journey though and quite prolonged i feel. Hopefully i'll be well down the vindaloo path by then ;D Plan to get started on this real soon after this weekend is over.
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Never had this one, Dave, but it sounds nice (are you going over to the dark side - curry without heat!!!!)?
Sounds like a nice dish though - tandoori flavours and some mince are right up my boulevard. I'm sure my local does a dish with mince - will check it out.
Anyway, nice to have you back and posting some great stuff. A wee aside - I got the necessary Pataks pastes this week for Chewy's Masala paste for use in the NIS. How much paste does the quoted recipe make and can I freeze it for future use?
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Never had this one, Dave, but it sounds nice (are you going over to the dark side - curry without heat!!!!)?
What me ? :o :o Never. A pure momentary lapse. Next minute, you'll be suggesting i start eating kormas Garp ::) ;D
Off the top of my head i don't know but i'm sure when portioned up in required recipe quantities (using the little plastic pots that the onion salad comes in with a TA) I think i had enough for between 8 - 10 NISs. Last time i made up the red masala i bought a large tub of yoghurt and doubled the quantity ;D Keeps perfectly fine in the freezer mate for future use. That'll give you plenty of opportunity to try the "magic sauce" in other dishes or just stick to making North Indian Specials ;D
I've a feeling it's gonna find its way into my rezalla attemps for sure to enhance the tandoori element :)
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Thanks, Dave. I'm looking forward to trying the NIS as it looks superb.
Might give Chewy's CTM a go too as haven't made a decent one......ever :)
Anyway - back on topic - Rezalla. I look forward to your further posts on the matter.
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Well pleased on the "lower" heat BIR - can be absolutely brilliant.
Don't know rezzela - and stopped going to place that I came across it. Have chewytikka recipe and looked at many times yet felt there is something missing and not been able to pin
Looking forward to both journey's
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Might give Chewy's CTM a go too as haven't made a decent one......ever :)
Do you think a decent CTM could be done without coconut in it? Re: an allergy. I wouldn't have thought so, but
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I have never made a decent one but I'm sure it's possible :)
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CH, I would love to know the depth of flavour your trying for, do you have any idea of list of ingredients and order of cooking yet?
I just got around to making a vindaloo this evening, one thing I have learned to implement is the order that ingredient is added and at what point, I cant express the difference it makes to a curry.
Fresh ingredient , heat and cooking time are key points as you know, also I learnt when and when not to add chilli powder is such an important part of the dish.
Tonight's vindaloo is deep in flavour , moorish and I just wanted to mop up the sauce!
The addition of fresh green chillies under the sauce gave the dish heat level way above the usual vindaloo. IMO :)
But I would love to have a go at cooking your dish, if you want to fill me in on foundations of the dish.
Cheers.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/f7fc203ae1cb3740537bdbaf4e0190f4.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#f7fc203ae1cb3740537bdbaf4e0190f4.jpg)}
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Might give Chewy's CTM a go too as haven't made a decent one......ever :)
Do you think a decent CTM could be done without coconut in it? Re: an allergy. I wouldn't have thought so, but
yes it can, substitute the recipe volume with a mixture of milk cream and almond powder instead, I do it when I run out of coconut milk, hardly notice the difference.
regards
Paul
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Thanks very much Paul, will give that a whirl. Cheers.
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Great looking curry there LC. You seem to be further down the road on the journey than me!!!! Struggling to get out of the TA mode yet ???.
Probably the hardest thing to do is describe the flavours of a dish that has few ingredients and yet varies so much from restaurant to restaurant. Where have i heard that before? Sounds just like the madras problem ::).
Curry ingredients are: fresh veg oil, garlic paste, tomato paste seemingly undiluted, mixed powder, chilli powder, gravy, pre-cooked chicken, pre-cooked potato, fresh chillis, lemon juice and coriander to finish
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Looking forward to your further thoughts on this subject, Dave. You've set yourself a much more cerebral task in re-creating all aspects of your ideal curry than just simply trying to replicate the ingredients.
I'll tell you this though - I could fair murder that trayful of grub right now. My mouth's watering! :)
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Great update and that is a cracking spread 8)the pre-cooked chicken is looking the business. In fact after seeing this I'm pre-cooking chicken right now, tonight I will be cooking vindaloo and mushroom fried rice for myself.
Looking at my last photo and your vindaloo above they do seem to appear very alike, and oil content looks consistent to me.
I will be aiming for a light tasting vindaloo so will be going easy on mix powder and trying to bring the flavours you describe in to play.
Still retaining that burning heat that reaches ones ears :D
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Look forward to your update LC. It's mince and tatties for me this evening. I suppose i'd better decide on the quantities for the first vindaloo trial. Damn, that means i'm gonna have to measure everything going forward and make notes after each attempt. Normally I just wing it ::). Where's Jerry M when you need him ;D
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Curryhell,
Looking forward to this journey. I've parked it having too many interests and not enough time.
These being my current thoughts or to do list.
1) there is more chilli powder than I think. The use of 1 tbsp of Kashmiri in madras has made me think this
2) saw another member cook and stuck out in my mind that the chilli powder might have been cooked more ie almost cooked out before adding mix
3) my IFFU mix don't cut it on madras and vindaloo. A mix say haldi is needed. I guess contains paprika.
Things that ive tried and adopted:
4) scotch bonnet blended in chopped tom produces lip burn
5) green finger chilli as a paste adds that depth
All fingers crossed for us all.
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Thanks for your thoughts Jerry. My waters are currently muded without introducing further variables at this stage. But the green chilli paste has now been placed on the radar for possible inclusion once some progress has been made.
You've set yourself a much more cerebral task in re-creating all aspects of your ideal curry than just simply trying to replicate the ingredients.
Keith, i am now beginning to realise the madras lovers frustration in creating their favourite dish of so few ingredients.
Have made dishes over the last two days and am still just off the starting grid. Already i am drawing one or two stark conclusions, possibly prematurely let's hope.
I have a few more attempts to make yet, given the permutations of quantities and order. I'll post the accounts of the last two days a little later. Let's just say whilst the dishes are reasonable, i'm nowhere close to my goal >:(
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Looking forward to your preliminary results, Dave. Mighty oaks from little acorns grow and all that, y'know! :)
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How's the journey going?
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Well at last i can post something positive about the journey. It certainly has been a bit of a learning curve for sure. The jb base is working well in providing a good neutral tasting gravy allowing easy identification of different flavours when playing around with ingredient order and quantities. Another plus is the use of chef Imran's Viceroy pre-cooked chicken recipe. This has provided nice mildly spiced succulent chicken which stands up nicely to the freezer test. And the flavour it adds to the dish is in no way overpowering.
How close am I to creating my local's vindaloo currently? If i'm honest, probably about 65% there. Not great I know but believe me its a lot closer than when i first started. I will never achieve 95% let alone 100% unless I use their mix powder and their base. The best i'll be able to do is create a vindaloo with "the taste" and "the smell" with as many characteristics of their dish as i can emulate.
Tonights efforts I am pleased to say are very encouraging, after about 15 attempts todate. The kitchen, as well as the curry, is full of the smell and it does have the restaurant taste. At last i'm getting closer ;D I think i've got the ingredient sequence now correct along with technique which indeed does result in providing that restaurant taste and smell.
My visit to Vindaloo earlier in the week has indeed helped with the journey. Having nailed certain things and reset my expectations to be realistic, I can now play with ingredient quantities and assess their impact a lot better than before. Once i have achieved the right balance of heat, sharpness and tomato hit, all that remains is to tweak the mix powder to get closer to my local TA/BIR. I may just have to go get some when I think i'm getting real close :) Anyway, here's tonights efforts, with which I am very pleased. Still some miles to go yet though :(
Here's the vindy
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/7041e5b5e2fde0f1ef947fea2409178b.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#7041e5b5e2fde0f1ef947fea2409178b.jpg)
Followed by a close up. Colour is nigh on exact to the dish itself
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/43cb7261b534734a972d8326536f6621.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#43cb7261b534734a972d8326536f6621.jpg)
Plated up but picture seems to have darkened a bit
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/316856371dc69966c22382772adcd436.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#316856371dc69966c22382772adcd436.jpg)
This is almost as satisfying as when i nailed the Elaichi NIS :)
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That dish doesn't look a million miles away from the previous photos of your T/A, Dave. It would be interesting to do a direct side-by-side comparison with both curries fresh from the pan, so to speak.
The Vindaloo is a (another!) dish I've never experienced in all my years of eating curry (chiefly due to the dire warnings of ring-sting!), so I'd like my first one to be a decent one! :)
Look forward to your further progress.
Edit: I must be going soft in my old age! Just had a look at the Vindaloo board for ideads and see that I had a go at Chewy's Odds'n'Ends Vindaloo just over a year ago. I mucked it up then, hence the apparent memory wipe!
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Id be interested to know what point you are actually upto in your journey, i.e. what point in the recipe you are regards ingredients, quantities, items not to use, must use etc. Maybe sharing may lead to another persons input getting you a step closer CH
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Well done Dave love the enthusiasm
So what is your favourite curry :)
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Hope your not giving up yet CH, here is some inspiration for you, one thing that will divide opinion,I never use tomato pur
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I much prefer blended toms to tom puree in a curry
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;)agreed it's just to deep a flavour and overpowers in my opinion.
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Lol, come on Russ, you should know me better than that. The journey has only just begun
Although from much of the evidence, with few exceptions, blended toms seem to be used in the prep of ingredients rather than in the mains where diluted paste tends to be the norm.
I never use tomato pur
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Lol, Yep but I am now aiming for a Michelin Sar rather than my local BIR, Whoop whoop! :D have like yourself tasted a good few curry and my opinion is a good vindaloo is not overpowered.
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Whoop whoop indeed LC lol ;D
Lol, Yep but I am now aiming for a Michelin Sar rather than my local BIR.
That'll be some achievement LC. I don't know too many chefs that have achieved that high standard yet lol ;D ;D
You're right about the vindaloo though. It is very much a dish where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Simple ingredients in number, cooked correctly results in a flavoursome dish with just the right depth of flavour, and not overly deep ::) Us vindaloo eaters are so fussy, as are many other eaters of a particlar dish on a regular basis ::)
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I've never really had a go at the vindaloo. Partly because I never know which recipes are authentic. For instance, is it supposed to contain vinegar or not?
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I much prefer blended toms to tom puree in a curry
That's something I picked up on in my local takeaway.The chef always uses blended plum tomatoes in the initial stages when cooking.I've always used thinned down tomato puree,not saying that's wrong but my chef definitely uses plum tomatoes.
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Couldn't agree more, my findings are that if I use tomato pur
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I've never really had a go at the vindaloo. Partly because I never know which recipes are authentic. For instance, is it supposed to contain vinegar or not?
Apart from having a go at Chewy's Odds'n'Ends dish, I haven't tried either a traditional or BIR vindaloo. In fact, my local T/As don't even mention the dish in their menus, so I'm looking forward to CH's running commentary and eventual recipe.
BIR vindaloo dishes appear to use either vinegar, lemon juice or tamarind - it seems to be a regional thing - but according to everything I've read on the subject, the original dish was made using vinegar or tamarind and garlic.
I'm currently preparing a pork vindaloo recipe from an Indian cook book which uses malt vinegar and a spice mix in the marinade and a paste containing red wine vinegar in the cooking. BIR it ain't, but I'm keen to try it anyway!
I also looked at a 'traditional vindaloo' from the book Curry: A Tale of Cooks and Conquerors which, understandably, is much simpler but also uses vinegar and garlic (and a sort of spice mix) in the marinade. I'll maybe try that one at a later date, but for now I'm looking forward to cooking and tasting the more complex recipe.
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Will be interesting to hear how you get on with the authentic recipe Keith. There are a few posts on here where vinegar was added to the vindaloo but it's debateable if this is common practice nowadays in many kitchens. As for my recipe, I don't think there'll be any surprises on the ingredients and few accolades on the quality of the dish if i manage to crack this project. To some it will be just another average vindaloo, to others a poor quality typically modern dish :o But for me it'll be another tick in the box as I love the flavours and enjoy eating it. And i really won't give two hoots about what anybody else thinks, that is of course if i indeed manage to achieve the end goal ;D
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My regular doesn't do vinegar but for me its a must. :)
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My regular doesn't do vinegar but for me its a must. :)
"One man's meat" and all that I suppose Gav. End of the days, it's what you enjoy eating and are used to, irrespective of what others may think or say. Some may call it "regional" ;D ;D
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Lime juice appears to be another 'acid' used in vindaloo. I would have thought lemon juice would make it a madras - but hotter! Obviously that would depend on what other ingredients are considered essential in differentiating a vindaloo (i.e. black pepper and ground cardamom) from madras. I'd be interested in seeing a do's and don'ts list of vindaloo ingredients in order to create my own interpretation of it.
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The difference between my madras and my vindaloo
When cooking myself a vindaloo I add/change the following;
Veg ghee or butter ghee if i'm using red meat
Asafoetida
Double the amount of Garlic paste (blended in oil) and no ginger
Green chilli & coriander paste ( blended in oil )
Hot Chilli powder
black pepper powder
Amchoor
blended toms
fresh Lime
plus the standard fare of
mix powder
methi
blended plum toms
works well for me, in fact Ill be making it tomorrow