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Curry Base Recipes => Curry Base Chat => Topic started by: Stu-pot on April 04, 2015, 08:42 PM

Title: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on April 04, 2015, 08:42 PM
Is it possible to over cook your base? 
Can the aroma change from nice BIR to horrible?
Boiling/simmering for an hour seems good but onions aren't at 'melting point'.
Thereafter smell and flavour changes to undesirable.
Dies this sound familiar?
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Naga on April 04, 2015, 08:52 PM
Not usually. Are the vegetables burning on the bottom of the pot?

I should add that the jb base takes around 3 hours total cooking time. Many bases are similar - with the exception of pressure-cooked bases, that is.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: ELW on April 04, 2015, 08:53 PM
I'd say it is Stu-pot,before & after blending. I like to stop the boiling before the onions turn from milky white to brownish. After blending its an hour simmering maximum or the gravy darkens & can add an unwanted flavour that overpowers the curries, bringing 'blandness'. Imo of course

Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on April 04, 2015, 09:35 PM
Hi Naga. No not at all.
I've made many bases over past two months and every time with all recipes including my own made up ones I get the same result, smell & flavour.  I dislike it.  It driving me crazy.  I'm seriously thinking it's correct BUT I just don't like it!  I'm not a vegetable person.
I've been doing lots of experiments and processes of elimination etc but not managed to suss it out! 
When I use these bases in my curries I get an after taste that can last for 2 days!  horrible.
The only time I can use a base that is ok is if I use a plain onion base, no G&G, veg, coriander, Turmeric...Nothing.  I am now wondering if the Turmeric is the culprit but I doubt it.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on April 04, 2015, 09:36 PM
Hi ELW.   does any of what I said to Naga ring a bell mate?
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on April 04, 2015, 09:54 PM
I've made many bases over past two months and every time with all recipes including my own made up ones I get the same result, smell & flavour.  I dislike it. 
Ah.  You may well be one of the people that Kris Dhillon had in mind when she re-engineered her base for "The New Curry Secret".  I could never understand why she felt the need to do this, as her first base had always smelled great to me, but from your message I now understand that not everyone would felt as I did.  You may therefore wish to try "KD2 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,5183.msg96286.html#msg96286)" (from The New Curry Secret) and see if it smells any better to you.

** Phil.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Onions on April 04, 2015, 10:15 PM
Yep. KD1= the first and *sometimes still* the best, for old times sake!
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on April 04, 2015, 10:22 PM
Thanks for that info Phil.  I only have KD.1.  If anyone wants to share the KD.2 base PLS do...
It's reassuring that I may not be the only person that hates the smell & flavour of Base curry but loves the flavour etc of finished curry!  FYI. The only way I've managed to cook and enjoy a finished curry in the last two months is by using 2/3's Onion Gravy & 1/3 Garabi and using Red Masala and anything else to disguise the Base flavour!  BUT, if I hate Garabi so much, why do I love Restaurant & TA so much ?  WEIRD!!!
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on April 04, 2015, 10:36 PM
Just read KD.1 base and she says add Turmeric at the last stage so maybe the Turmeric is my problem.  Cheers.

Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on April 04, 2015, 10:39 PM
Thanks for that info Phil.  I only have KD.1.  If anyone wants to share the KD.2 base PLS do...

I'll send you a copy via PM, Stu.
** Phil.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: JerryM on April 12, 2015, 08:11 PM
It's certainly not turmeric. I use loads in BIR.

I have never got a taste like you suggest. I have tasted base by others which i can only describe as stewed onion.

Suggestions would be:
1) follow chewytikka 3 hr base
2) use more oil min 100 ml per 800g onion
3) cook very slowly

I currently cook stage 1a (onion, oil, salt, ghee) 1 hr, add spice  and flavours (stage 1b) 30 min, blend then add water (stage 2) bring to simmer 20 mins.  In past have cooked stage 1 6 hrs and stage 2 7 hrs with no bad effect.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on April 14, 2015, 07:52 PM
Thanks for that JerryM.  From other posts  I can see your on a 'mission' as well....   Good luck too.....


Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: George on April 14, 2015, 08:31 PM
I hate Garabi so much

Me too, i.e. I hate the word 'garabi' but I love the flavour of the base sauce I make, after only 20 or 30 minutes cooking time. And I include all the ingredients which you say you leave out. None of the vegetables take longer than 20 or 30 minutes to cook so why simmer it for much longer?

I suggest starting again with a new recipe. I used to start with 4 onions but now I only use 2 onions - enough for a single portion of curry, and a bit left over. Delicious. I simply can't see the point of making an industrial quantity of base sauce, especially if there's a risk it goes wrong and you don't like the flavour.

Going back to the original question: "Is it possible to over cook your base ?" Perhaps not, despite what I say, because I think Phil posted a pressure cooker recipe with over 2 hours cooking time. That must be the equivalent of about 6 or 8 hours at standard pressure!

Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Garp on April 14, 2015, 08:43 PM
Me too, i.e. I hate the word 'garabi'

It's strange that if you search for garabi on any well-known search engines, nothing comes up relating to India/curries/gravy etc. So I'm with George - I hate it for the pretentious attempt to look clever that it is. I would ban the word from this forum and make a poll if I was allowed :)
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Madrasandy on April 14, 2015, 08:53 PM
Indian chefs cant say gravy so it comes out as Garabi  ;)

I would say that it definitely can be overcooked, everything can be overcooked, just as anything can be undercooked.
Are you sure your cooking your onions enough to release their natural sugars Stu, or maybe your burning your spices, either way you'll get a bitter unpleasant taste
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Garp on April 14, 2015, 08:58 PM
Indian chefs cant say gravy so it comes out as Garabi  ;)

That's a bit of a sweeping statement there, Andy, n'est-ce pas?
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Madrasandy on April 14, 2015, 09:02 PM
Haha haven't heard "sweeping statement " for a while , thought I was on the wrong forum then.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Garp on April 14, 2015, 09:05 PM
You probably are mate ;)

Maybe this one would be better for you

http://www.reddit.com/r/ukipparty (http://www.reddit.com/r/ukipparty)
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Onions on April 14, 2015, 09:17 PM
UKIP??? You think this is Comedy Central or something??? ;) :D
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Gav Iscon on April 14, 2015, 09:21 PM
I'm sure he's a subliminal canvasser.  ::)
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Secret Santa on April 14, 2015, 09:36 PM
Me too, i.e. I hate the word 'garabi' but I love the flavour of the base sauce I make, after only 20 or 30 minutes cooking time. And I include all the ingredients which you say you leave out. None of the vegetables take longer than 20 or 30 minutes to cook so why simmer it for much longer?

Two issues there then.

First, garabi. Used by pretentious white gentlemen, often of a Northern persuasion, who think it makes 'em sound like they are closer to the BIR trade and thus know more than most.

Second, the long simmer, or in fact boil, of the base is to bring out the sweetness of the onions. Can't be done in 30 mins George, unless you use a pressure cooker.

There's a fact. True BIR chefs don't add extra sugar or any other sweetner to standard savoury curries such as madras, vindaloo, bhuna etc. Why? Because the base is cooked properly in the first place.

If you need to add sugar to these curries it shows you are not cooking your base correctly.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: littlechilie on April 14, 2015, 09:56 PM
Indian chefs cant say gravy so it comes out as Garabi  ;)

 ;)

I cook my onions halved for 2 hours, then leave the lid on all night, next stage is the next day! I like sweet onions and a good gravy takes time! George can you even blend onions after 20 minutes?
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: George on April 14, 2015, 10:05 PM
George can you even blend onions after 20 minutes?

No problem! They can also be blended after zero minutes, of course, and cooked as a puree.

I hear what you, SS and others say but I've tried simmering the same base sauce for an hour or more and, to be honest, it has never tasted better, and probably not as good.

When I used a pressure cooker, the vegetables came out much browner than normal, but the flavour of the resultant base sauce was no better and again, probably not as good.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: bamble1976 on April 14, 2015, 10:29 PM
I am a firm believer that the base ahs to be cooked for as long as it tastes for the natural sweetness to develop. This normally takes at least 1-2 hours for me.

Barry
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Secret Santa on April 14, 2015, 11:30 PM
I am a firm believer that the base ahs to be cooked for as long as it tastes for the natural sweetness to develop. This normally takes at least 1-2 hours for me.

Exactly. It takes as long as it takes and will vary with type of onion. Personally I find that three hours, on average, does the job.

Depends on what other junk you've lobbed in with the onions as well though. Any acidifying component added early will kill the sweetening process...toms are a prime example which is why many bases add them later on.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on April 15, 2015, 09:40 AM
I am a firm believer that the base ahs to be cooked for as long as it tastes for the natural sweetness to develop. This normally takes at least 1-2 hours for me.

Exactly. It takes as long as it takes and will vary with type of onion. Personally I find that three hours, on average, does the job.

Depends on what other junk you've lobbed in with the onions as well though. Any acidifying component added early will kill the sweetening process...toms are a prime example which is why many bases add them later on.

Excellent information... Hadn't thought acidic veg could ruin the sweetening process !!   I'm now sure this is a big part of what's wrong with my base. 

After travelling India many times and going into their homes over there and here in UK, I can say with certainty "they throw away NOTHING" everything is used.  So is it possible the "other junk lobbed in with the onions" was started years ago to prevent waste and improve nutrition?
When the other vegetables are added, it is my opinion the gorgeous, sweet taste of the onion gravy is lost! Which leads to my next question: Do they then add curry powder etc to improve the taste?  I'm sure they do!


Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: livo on April 15, 2015, 11:13 AM
It's interesting that the OP was asking about over cooking base and we ended up with a feeling that some are actually under cooking, and that there is (or could be) an adverse reaction to having extra vegetable ingredients. My feeling about the cooking is; if the cook thinks it's done, and they're happy with it, that's it.  If it makes a good curry to their liking, that's what matters.

As for the science of it, I'm sure that onions generate sugars when cooked out to perfection. I can only hope to achieve this from time to time and since I'm only doing home based small batches, it may or may not happen.

Do they add spices? You bet. Will they tell you what they use? Partially.

I have a Greek friend who at 55 years old found out his father's recipe for Lamb Souvlas, and only after his mother passed away.  Will he tell me the whole thing?  Nope, and I even gave them some of my home made Ouzo.  Are they good?  You bet.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on April 18, 2015, 05:37 PM
Is it possible to over cook your Base?   

After 3 weeks of making a Base almost every day I can answer my own question: Not really!

I've discovered that there is not a bad base, just a different base. 

My problem was that I don't really like the taste & aroma of base.  So when I was using the base in my curries, I seemed to try and disguise its flavour by upping the quantities of other ingredients durring the cook.  Big error! 

Anyhow, my latest Bach is Mick Crawfords Vol 2.  It's full of flavour and works very well with Jhal Frazi.

I can now move onwards and upwards...  I figure I need 4 or 5 different 'mixed powder" recipes...  I can feel another thread coming on...


Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: littlechilie on April 18, 2015, 06:24 PM
Is it possible to over cook your Base?   

After 3 weeks of making a Base almost every day I can answer my own question: Not really!

I've discovered that there is not a bad base, just a different base


Good post Supot, there are many different base gravy's and as I discovered,so many different ways to cook them!

Myself I now use one base and one mix powder, it's versatile and meets all my needs, but I also love the taste of my base sauce ;)sometimes I find myself tasting it and lapping up spoonfuls of the gravy ;D
Cheers.
LC.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on April 19, 2015, 07:30 AM
Hi LC

I'm very interested to know what base & mixed powder you've chosen to work with?

I'm finding that my curries have a familiar taste, at first I thought it maybe because the base is the same for each dish so I went thru a process of elimination using different bases.  I discovered the base gives the finished curry a depth of flavour(s) but the 'familiar taste was still there! So it must be the 'mixed powder'

My next couple of weeks will be taken up with "mix powder".

Stu-pot
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: JerryM on April 21, 2015, 06:46 PM
that I don't really like the taste & aroma of base. 

Its key to turn that around before doing anything else.

Before blending any base should taste so good you can stop wanting to taste it. Other than perhaps a slight perception of too much salt. After blending it should taste completely different - i know it as moorish.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on April 26, 2015, 07:13 AM
that I don't really like the taste & aroma of base. 

Its key to turn that around before doing anything else.

Before blending any base should taste so good you can stop wanting to taste it. Other than perhaps a slight perception of too much salt. After blending it should taste completely different - i know it as moorish.

OK. Been working on this and trying to 'turn it around' - My problem is I dislike many vegetables so i decided to make a base using vegetables I do like, keeping in mind some basic rules of making stocks.

I boiled/simmered for 4 hours:  4kg Onions, 2 Parsnips, 3 Carrots, 5 Sticks Celery, Handful of Coriander, Salt & 250ml Rapeseed oil. - 3 hours with lid on and plenty of water, 1 hour lid off to reduce.

Left it to rest for 2 1/2 hours while I popped out to an Indian restaurant I use and have had lessons previously. Sat and ate at the Bar and told the owner what I'd been upto and he took me into his Kitchen and let me try their bases!  I got lucky!  It's an Indian Restaurant and they had 5 bases on the tops, different dishes require a different base he told me.  I've no idea at this point which goes with which but I'll work on that...  The Gravys went from Onion based and being light'ish to Tomato based and being heavier, richer but all had that very familar base aroma & taste that we all know and make at home!  The Chef said the vegetables I put in (above) is OK, he said you have a free run at that stage and can put in almost anything you like!  It's what you do next that counts... He didn't go any further on that, shame.  So with all this in mind, I got home last night at 23:00 and made the second stage of my base which was:  Heat up 500ml Rapeseed oil.  Add 3 tbsp G&G fry out until just starting to change colour.   Add  3 dsp my Mix Powder and cook out (Rajah and the usual extras).  Add 600ml Passata, cooked out for 10 mins till I knew it was cooked.  Then I poured my pur
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Onions on April 26, 2015, 10:36 AM
How big were the 'bags'? It sounds like a lot of salt / sugar! Relative to the size of the base of course.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on April 26, 2015, 11:05 AM
How big were the 'bags'? It sounds like a lot of salt / sugar! Relative to the size of the base of course.

Hi Onions

I was referring to their base in their kitchen and trying to find out how much salt & sugar they put in thei base.

When I got back home last night to finish off my base with the second stage, I'd had a few bevvys and thought this is time for "twist or bust"   When I mixed stage 1 with stage 2 I also whacked in a huge amount of salt & sugar.

This morning it's still warm so I've just removed the oil and tried it and WOW......  First base I've made that tastes good!  Very good!  Keep wanting more, doesn't even taste like I've put a monster amount in!

I've had a strong suspicion for a long while that salt & sugar are the missing ingredients in the right quantaties!   I just didn't know when or where to put them in plus when you've spent hours making the base it's very hard to do the naughty thing and stick a pile of sugar and salt in it.   No wonder they don't want anyone to know, they'd have empty restaurants! 

Just got to prove this with a couple of curries now but it's raining outside and I'm barred from the kitchen!



Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Onions on April 26, 2015, 11:13 AM
Intersting. I guess the sugar would caramelise? -although not putting it in right at the end? I'd be up for trying this- perhaps make a mini-base to experiment with. Although I don't know how to reduce any of these base recipes to a one-portion quantity- and suspect that the amount cooked makes a difference in the resultant taste.

Stone me it's complcated for a Sunday morning!  ::)
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on April 26, 2015, 11:14 AM
it's raining outside and I'm barred from the kitchen!

Maybe she'll let you back in once you've dried off ...
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: chewytikka on April 26, 2015, 11:14 AM
{popped out to an Indian restaurant I use and have had lessons previously. Sat and ate at the Bar}
{ I got lucky!  It's an Indian Restaurant and they had 5 bases on the tops}

 :) Interesting, Whats the name and location of this restaurant please.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on April 26, 2015, 11:15 AM
Stone me it's complcated for a Sunday morning!  ::)

Sure beats attending an Orthodox Mass delivered in Old Church Slavonic :)
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Onions on April 26, 2015, 11:26 AM
Absolutely!


Or running the London marathon.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on April 26, 2015, 12:34 PM


 :) Interesting, Whats the name and location of this restaurant please.

Hi Chewy

It's the Cinnamon Culture, Bromley. 4 mins walk from home. It's a posh one. We'll run back & front. Trying hard for a Michelin star. Michelin chefs often in there. And they don't use Pataks for Tandoor marinade!  Very good but very expensive. I had the Tandoor grill then Chicken Makhani. Pillau and a few beers and dropped
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on April 26, 2015, 12:47 PM
That's within travelling distance for me.  I wouldn't mind helping to make up a CR0 party to try it out ...
** Phil.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: chewytikka on April 26, 2015, 03:48 PM
Thanks Mr Punter
I'll have a look at it later, Looks like a converted Pub?

A step up from normal BIR

Having Aspirations, not a bad thing ;)

cheers Chewy
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on April 26, 2015, 03:59 PM
That's within travelling distance for me.  I wouldn't mind helping to make up a CR0 party to try it out ...
** Phil.

Count me in Phil.....

Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on April 26, 2015, 04:16 PM
Thanks Mr Punter
I'll have a look at it later, Looks like a converted Pub?

A step up from normal BIR

Having Aspirations, not a bad thing ;)

cheers Chewy

Yeah was a pub.  Manpreet took the place over about 4 years ago and opened up as the Cinnamon Culture.  About 3 miles away we've recently had Atul Kochhar open up Indian Essence.  I think Cinnamon Culture knocks spot off Atul!  So he's. You could say it's a step up from a normal BIR.

Sometimes I get fed up with the 'prices' or 'posh nosh' and long for the old school/yesterday year currys...  Hence I'm on here learning but I can't find a cheap old school restaurant, just an expensive old school restaurant that's very good depending which chef is on shift called Tamasha, Bromley. I'm gonna try and get in their kitchen too! It's been there for 30 years, very colonial, feels like your in Singapore.



Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Onions on April 26, 2015, 04:31 PM
I think Cinnamon Culture knocks spot off Atul!  So he's. You could say it's a step up from a normal BIR.

So he's what, mate?
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on April 26, 2015, 05:04 PM
That's within travelling distance for me.  I wouldn't mind helping to make up a CR0 party to try it out ...
** Phil.

Phil.   I recon if it was organised for a 'weekday' lunch or evening we'd get the full treatment.  They are very proud of what they do etc....  Let me know how I can help (if you get a response)?
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on April 26, 2015, 05:33 PM
Phil.   I recon if it was organised for a 'weekday' lunch or evening we'd get the full treatment.  They are very proud of what they do etc....  Let me know how I can help (if you get a response)?

Weekday lunch or evening is fine by me.  Anyone else within travelling distance of Bromley, Kent, and interested in trying the Cinnamon ?

** Phil.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Onions on April 26, 2015, 06:05 PM
Bromley North or Bromley South BR? I believe a night bus makes it way back into London from those parts... ;)
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on April 26, 2015, 06:12 PM
I think Cinnamon Culture knocks spot off Atul!  So he's. You could say it's a step up from a normal BIR.

So he's what, mate?

Hi Onions

The owner is: Manpreet Dhingra.     And his Chef is: Bhuwan Bhatt

The Chefs usually come into the UK having completed their Chef diploma's and worked 6 years in top hotels/5* in Mumbai & Delhi.  Their North Indian culinary skills are to die for...  It's what they train for.  BIR has travelled a long way.  As I see it, it started in the UK,  was taken back to India and Bangladesh where schools were set up to train top quality Chefs in Delhi to the industry then brought back to the UK. So, the most amazing BIR tasting flavours are experienced in the 'top notch' restaurants which are mostly in the 'top hotels' in Delhi and Mumbai because they are free to experiment!  The top restaurants in London and probably across the UK are bringing these skills across Asia with the Chefs and introducing them into 'top notch' Restaurants in the UK like Cinnamon Culture and changing/improving the quality of what we eat today.

His previous chef: Chef Suresh who was and still is a friend of mine has gone back to Veeraswamy restaurant, Regents Street. London which was THE first 'top notch' Indian restaurant in the UK.  Charlie Chaplin was one of their first customers in the first few months of opening...  ITS TRUE!   This could sound like I'm trying to sell these places but I'm not... But you have to appreciate you must be very good to work as a chef here!

I have NO INTEREST IN PURI TANDOORS, CINNAMON CULTURE OR VEERASWAMY !   I just appreciate good intentions, hard work, achievement & success, quality and advancement...

And this restaurant is a 4 minute walk from my house... Lol....  It keeps me skint but full with knowledge if I push them!   ;D
 
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on April 26, 2015, 06:20 PM
Bromley North or Bromley South BR? I believe a night bus makes it way back into London from those parts... ;)

Bromley North mate...
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on April 26, 2015, 06:31 PM
Bromley North or Bromley South BR? I believe a night bus makes it way back into London from those parts... ;)
Since I  can drive up to four others from one end of Bromley to the other at zero inconvenience, it doesn't really matter which part it is in !

** Phil.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: fried on April 26, 2015, 07:40 PM
Come on! Get it organised, let's see a review.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on April 26, 2015, 07:55 PM
At the moment only two have expressed an interest; I would suggest we aim for four if possible.
** Phil.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: artistpaul on April 26, 2015, 10:56 PM
Me too, i.e. I hate the word 'garabi'

It's strange that if you search for garabi on any well-known search engines, nothing comes up relating to India/curries/gravy etc. So I'm with George - I hate it for the pretentious attempt to look clever that it is. I would ban the word from this forum and make a poll if I was allowed :)

Hi guys

The word garabi used by them, they are actually trying to say 'gravy' but Indians etc have a difficulty pronouncing the letter V as V does not exist in their language, so they pronounce it lazily as a B

hence garabi!
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on April 27, 2015, 07:02 AM
The word garabi used by them, they are actually trying to say 'gravy' but Indians etc have a difficulty pronouncing the letter V as V does not exist in their language, so they pronounce it lazily as a B

hence garabi!

That's a bit over-simplified, and "they/them" are Bengali speakers rather than the whole of the sub-continent, but basically Artist Paul is correct -- See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengali_phonology#Consonant_clusters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengali_phonology#Consonant_clusters) for a good explanation of this phenomenon.

** Phil.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Les on April 27, 2015, 10:17 AM
My old boss was from Deli, And he pronounced his "V" as a "W" as in Winegar instead of Vinegar. ;D
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on April 27, 2015, 06:59 PM
 ;D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  ;D.   Love it....    ;D

Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Garp on April 27, 2015, 07:48 PM
That begs the question why members on here, who, assumedly, have the letter 'v' in their vocabulary, refer to it as garabi, rather than the intended word, gravy?
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Onions on April 27, 2015, 07:51 PM
So would you if your name was Joseph  ;)
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: curryhell on April 27, 2015, 09:20 PM
Great to have a more in depth explanation but comments could be misunderstood as being a little condescending, intentional or not  ::)
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Gav Iscon on April 27, 2015, 09:58 PM
.........
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on April 27, 2015, 10:34 PM
It's all about the base, about the base, about the base, about the base.   It's........ 

You hum it, I'll  play it...

It's all about the base, about the base, about the base, about the base.... 

Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on April 27, 2015, 10:37 PM
That begs the question why members on here, who, assumedly, have the letter 'v' in their vocabulary, refer to it as garabi, rather than the intended word, gravy?

Because to we Britons, "gravy" is what is served with roast beef (etc.) and the word has no connection whatsoever with the base of a curry sauce .  Therefore, lacking such a word in our language, we adopt the sound (and thus the word) from those who do have a word for it.  And that word is "garabi".

** Phil.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on April 27, 2015, 10:47 PM
 :D. So true....   ;)

Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: DalPuri on April 27, 2015, 11:43 PM
What a load of bollocks!
This is a curry forum, not a roast dinner forum.
Ask any Indian what gravy is and they'll tell you its curry sauce. (In so many words)
What gets me is that the handful of white guys using this word realise that not only does it sound odd in English to pronounce the vowel like you would in hay (gray-bee), it also sounds like you're taking the piss. So its changed to the sound like in have (grab-bee).

And there ain't nowhere in the world people pronounce gravy like navvy.
Savvy?
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: livo on April 28, 2015, 12:09 AM
Earliest reference I can find to "garabi / curry" is 15-06-2010  which refers to chef Shah's garabi in a post by CBM on RCR.  I think he may well have the answer as to how and / or why he used the term which is now the focus of a thread about the possibility of overcooking a base.

Now I'm orff to cook some flied lice.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Naga on April 28, 2015, 07:35 AM
Post deleted in the interests of keeping the thread on-topic...
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Sverige on April 28, 2015, 07:50 AM
Is it possible to over cook your base? 
Can the aroma change from nice BIR to horrible?
Boiling/simmering for an hour seems good but onions aren't at 'melting point'.
Thereafter smell and flavour changes to undesirable.
Dies this sound familiar?

Stu, it is possible to overcook your base but I think this is going to take many hours rather than more than 1 hr as per your post.  Cooked last a certain point I think the onions will dissolve into a grainy mush which sinks to the bottom of the pot and can burn.  Most people won't take it this far though and I think more undertook than over cook, based on reading comments on here.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on May 29, 2015, 10:28 AM
Been working on my base wondering if anyone would consider it burnt or just well cooked?  What do you reckon?  It tastes good (I think) doesn't taste burnt.  The curries I've made from it are the best yet but I have changed my technique when cooking them! 

The first 3 pics are stage 1 cooked hard for 1 hour

Then I separately cooked in oil G&G, Mix powder & Tomato pur
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: SoberRat on May 29, 2015, 11:17 AM
Hi Stu. A few months ago I made some base to a C2Go recipe. He talks about the smell changing in his video so I waited and in the end the base became 'burnt'. I gave it a good stir and then blended it. It did have a more caramelized flavour but for me it wasn't burnt and it looked a little like your picture. I have to say the curries I made with it were very nice if not a little darker than usual.   
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on May 29, 2015, 12:09 PM
Hi SR.  That sounds very familiar to what I've got going on here!  When I was boiling it, the water came out the onions very quickly and evaporated very quickly too.  So all that they were cooking in for the last 20 mins was the oil I first put it.  Ratio was 3 cups water, 1 cup oil (4 kg onions).  I had to stay on top of it to avoid it catching too much and burning.  The smell was like frying onions. It smelt great.  Like yours, my curries are a little darker but I like that too.  I used a high heat to get this working. 
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: SoberRat on May 29, 2015, 12:20 PM
That's it, yeah, fried onion! Mine was done in a pressure cooker which didn't give any control which is why I haven't cooked for so long since.
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on May 29, 2015, 12:30 PM
Do you still cook and like this type of base?  Or have you something better you prefer?
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: SoberRat on May 29, 2015, 02:03 PM
Recently I have been using Jb's recipe but using a slightly different method to the spec one. I've put a link below. I have been getting some good results with this.

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,13939.0.html (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,13939.0.html)
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on May 29, 2015, 02:51 PM
Thanks for that link SR...  I'll be giving that one a go sometime soonish.

Cheers
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on June 06, 2015, 11:14 PM
This thread is about; is it possible to over cook your base?   Well, after many weeks trying all sorts of methods/techniques, I think the answer is NO.  Every time I cook a base on very high heat, in 1 hour for the veg, it turns brown and smells like fried onions. Anyone else get this?
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Stu-pot on June 06, 2015, 11:51 PM
Chewy,  am I on the right track here in your opinion?
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: livo on June 07, 2015, 12:38 AM
Stu-pot?  I think you are over-cooking your base judging from the photos a few posts back.  Why are you cooking it on "High Heat"?  Once I have reached a heat level where it is cooking I put the pot on the smallest burner and turn the heat down so that it just simmers away gently for a long time.  I would say if you are having to watch it and prevent catching then you are too dry and too hot.  The T/A chefs aren't wanting to be hovering over a pot of gravy while it cooks away.  They probably go back to it occasionally to give it a stir.  I know I just put mine on and generally leave it go really.

Most of the base gravy recipe videos and pictures I have seen have much less colour that the one you have pictured and it looks way too thick.  I can't say I smell frying onions and I would think this suggests you are getting it too dry and too hot.

This is only just my opinion though. Others may see it differently.  The thing you need to ask yourself is, are you making nice curries out of it?
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: Madrasandy on June 07, 2015, 07:35 AM
Some base recipes call for cooking on high heat
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: bigboaby1 on June 07, 2015, 10:03 AM
I normally boil the onions for about 2 hours untill they become mush.The first hour on a high heat,,the last hour on medium ....It's only when you blend and cook further then there is a danger of it burning and sticking to the bottom of the pot.....but with my method,sorry Cafe India method there is no further cooking after the blend...In the past once blended i use to cook for a further 45 minutes but i now add this time before i blend,tasting,making sure it's sweet and sugary and then i know it's ready to blend... Oily curry's are fine for home use but my costumers don't want to see it,,unless you specifically ask for a curry with extra oil, which very rarely happens,infact it doesn't...I'm quite certain tho some guys on here would ask for it that way lol..If i cooki for myself i use the old style bringing the oil back to the top....both ways taste exactly the same,but to be honest i like to feel the oil on my lips...MORE PEOPLE ARE HEALTH CONSCIOUS THAN EVER THESE DAYS...If they can't see oil they think, well it can't really be that bad,,If only they knew The choice is yours...bb1
Title: Re: Is it possible to over cook your base ?
Post by: livo on June 07, 2015, 11:44 PM
Some base recipes call for cooking on high heat
This is true but ask why. If you are using all or mainly water to boil the onions, high heat  will only affect the rate at which it cooks.  Using low heat just takes longer but reduces the risk of over-cooking. Pressure cooking just speeds up the process further.