Curry Recipes Online
Beginners Guide => Trainee Chefs / Beginners Questions => Topic started by: fylde2022 on January 22, 2020, 07:41 PM
-
I've just joined this forum.
I'm keen on trying out a homemade curry and I've tried these, so-called, "great" curry mixes that taste terrible!
I'm a vegetarian and I tend to lean towards Dopiaza and Madras.
I've noticed a lot of these bases are huge portions, as you would expect a chef would need, but what's put me off making my own, is that I don't want to have to discard such a large amount of base gravy.
Is there a base gravy, available, that would be smaller and more suitable for home cooking?
Thanks in advance!
-
They are all suitable for home cooking, just freeze what you don
-
Is there a base gravy available that would be smaller and more suitable for home cooking?
Welcome aboard, Fylde (and welcome back, SnS). As far as I can see, there is no reason at all why you could not simply scale down one of the standard bases. Taking KD1/PC (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5671.msg117917#msg117917) as a starting point, which is said to be sufficient to make five main courses, simply scale everything down by a ratio of 4:1, giving (roughly)
- 8 oz medium white onions
- 1/2 oz green ginger
- 1/2 oz garlic
- 1/4 green pepper
- 1/4 red pepper
- 3/4 pints water
- 1 saltspoon salt
- 2 oz peeled plum tomatoes
- 2 tablespoons vegetable oil
- 1 saltspoon tomato pur
-
The point of the large base sauce quantities is so that you don't have to repeat the process, which takes a couple of hours or more if done properly, very often. The base sauce is crucial to the BIR method and curry texture so you need to do it and making single or double portion quantities just doesn't make sense. As already suggested just freeze what you don't immediately use in single portion blocks. Otherwise you're better off sticking to traditional single portion "authentic" curries rather than BIR style.
-
If you don't have the freezer space or just don't want to make a big batch of base there's a way that comes close to restaurant style. IMO it will get you 80 percent of the way there and you can make it one curry at a time.
You can check it out here (https://glebekitchen.com/easy-curry-recipe-technique-nearly-restaurant-style/).
Swap the chicken for paneer in this recipe (https://glebekitchen.com/nearly-restaurant-style-chicken-saag-curry/) and you'll have a pretty good saag paneer.
Hope you find something that works for you. Ultimately, if you get into BIR you'll wind up finding a way to make a big batch of curry base. It's a rabbit hole I've fallen down certainly.
-
Is there a base gravy available that would be smaller and more suitable for home cooking?
Welcome aboard, Fylde (and welcome back, SnS). As far as I can see, there is no reason at all why you could not simply scale down one of the standard bases. Taking KD1/PC (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5671.msg117917#msg117917) as a starting point, which is said to be sufficient to make five main courses, simply scale everything down by a ratio of 4:1, giving (roughly)
- 8 oz medium white onions
- 1/2 oz green ginger
- 1/2 oz garlic
- 1/4 green pepper
- 1/4 red pepper
- 3/4 pints water
- 1 saltspoon salt
- 2 oz peeled plum tomatoes
- 2 tablespoons vegetable oil
- 1 saltspoon tomato pur
-
Scaling every ingredient by the same ratio doesn
-
If you could be bothered looking far enough you will find I'm a strong advocate of non-linear scaling of "bulk dishes". I am however a firm believer that base gravy is able to be made at any volume with pretty much direct linear scaling. The seasoning elements may require slight adjustment but other than that, just make a smaller quantity.
I deliberately made reduced quantity of Andyxxxx's base, (can't remember the numbers in his username), where he was adamant you couldn't scale it down. However, you can. Base gravy is just that. It is bland onion soup. Of course you can scale it down with a bit of common sense cookery.
-
Just for SS. Pretty much direct linear scaling is an oxymoron. You are pedantically correct. Allow me to explain.
A full recipe calls for 1 kg onions. My onions weigh approximately 250g each so I use only 1 instead of 4. Due to non-uniformity of individual onions this is not exactly linear but pretty close to linear. Seasonings adjusted by use of taste, years of cooking experience and some common sense.
To me that is pretty much direct linear scaling.
-
I agree. Basically the rule of thumb is (very roughly) the stronger the flavour (i.e. the more impact on the finished dish the ingredient has) the less well it will scale (up or down).
-
Is there a base gravy, available, that would be smaller and more suitable for home cooking?
There certainly is. I have only ever made enough base sauce for one or two curries. The base sauce itself and resultant end curries are so good, I simply can't accept there would be any advantage in making an industrial quantity. The problem for you is that when you get conflicting advice, how do you which course to select?
-
I have only ever made enough base sauce for one or two curries. The base sauce itself and resultant end curries are so good, I simply can't accept there would be any advantage in making an industrial quantity.
Would this be using your re-scaled version of the "Mark J" bas (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=279.msg2325#msg2325)e, as per your message of September 2008 (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=312.msg26353#msg26353), George ? If so, it would be very helpful if you could add your re-scaled version to the list of bases available from this site.
** Phil.
-
Phil - that's the one. Maybe it's only me who scaled it down to 2 onions and, as long ago as 2008 for my taste, I hit the jackpot. But I don't want to enter the actual quantities here on this forum(if not already done) because, later than 2008 I realise it might offend people who simply aren't prepared to entertain the concept of strict pro-rata quantities. I tried Kris Dhillon's recipe long before 2008 and it simply wasn't in the same league.
-
I don't think that you need (or should) worry about offending people with closed minds, George. Far better (IMHO) to post your scaled-down recipe for the benefit of posterity, and for the benefit of those with open minds, who will almost certainly form the majority. And don't overlook the fact that you will be interpolating rather than extrapolating
-
I agree with Phil on this one George. If you've been using this since 2008 and it works, there should be no reason to refrain from posting your version. I believe that scaling a Base Gravy to reduced quantity is a perfectly acceptable practice. I do it all the time with every base I've tried. I always make base gravy in different size batches dependent upon my intention for actual dishes. There may well be a difference in mass quantity commercial production in that its easier to obtain consistency from batch to batch. This doesn't make it impossible on a smaller scale though.
I for one would like to try your version.
This is roughly how it scales, full recipe 30 onions to 2 onions.
600 - 700 ml oil. 40 - 45 ml oil
2 chef garlic. 1/2 tsp garlic
2 chef ginger. 1/2 tsp Ginger
1.5 chef curry powder. Scant 1/2 tsp Curry powder
1.5 chef Turmeric. Scant 1/2 tsp Turmeric.
1/2 level chef chilli powder. 1/4 tsp chilli powder.
30 - 35 onions. 2 onions
5 - 6 carrots. 1/3 carrot.
3 green peppers. 1/5 green pepper
1/2 bunch celery. 1/2 stick celery.
1/2 chef salt. 1/4 tsp salt.
4 level tsp Garam Masala. 1/4 tsp GM.
Fresh coriander
Tomato paste.
-
Scaling down simply by dividing by the same number doesn
-
Scaling down simply by dividing by the same number doesn
-
Scaling down simply by dividing by the same number doesn
-
So if we want to replicate your 2-onion base, George, is it OK to use Livo's version or are there any adjustments that you would recommend ?
** Phil.
-
Scaling down simply by dividing by the same number doesn
-
Top of Page 9 George says 2 Tsp of tomato puree.
https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=279.80 (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=279.80)
Depending on actual puree, pasata, double or triple concentrate paste it could vary but I'd suggest 2 tsp of puree / pasata or water diluted concentrate.
I'm still looking for coriander but it is a love hate thing anyway.
What goes with the bay leaf George? Not a listed ingredient but you say to remove before liquidating. Page 9 is first mention of Bay leaf I can see.
So 1 heaped chef spoon of tomato "paste" (assume double concentrate) would scale to 1 tsp or George's 2 tsp of puree.
1 whole bunch of coriander would scale down to about 1/2 cup of chopped down here.
And the chef in markj's recipe does add chicken stock. His own.
Right at the very end, p 19, is a scaled down 10 onion version. Scale it down further and you get pretty close to this thread 2 onion sauce. Knorr liquid chicken stock concentrate.
https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=279.180 (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=279.180)
I'll give it a try.
Now George! The bay leaf? And did you nail the BIR Korma? (I'm reading the thread now.)
-
Page 9 of which thread, Livo ?
-
Page 9 of which thread, Livo ?
Mark J's base thread. The one you linked to. I was using tablet so not easy to do copy paste for links etc.
https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=279.80 (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=279.80)
There appears to be a bit of a question mark over the linear scaling of the oil. The concern being the amount in volume compared to the required depth in the pan to attain "deep frying" as opposed to "shallow frying". I guess if you do deep you can always skim off once cooked.
There are interesting points about this base gravy that aren't in others. To mention;
1) Chilli. Even though not enough to give heat, and a mild is used anyway, most have none.
2) Garam Masala. Widely variable and a very strong influence in flavour. Easy to overdo.
3) Celery. I have used celery before but it isn't a common vegetable in Base Gravy recipes. See note # below.
4) Chicken Stock. There are Base Gravy threads that refer back to "Old School BIR" with the chicken bones. (Pre vegetarian / vegan rights)
5) The Frying Stage. This as opposed to the throw in and boil method. Not unique but not commonly seen in most recipes.
6) Curry Powder. The use of a Curry Powder and extra turmeric as opposed to a Chef's Kitchen "Mixed Powder". However this could be accounted for by the inclusion of the Garam Masala.
Note #. Celery. Celery stick is a common ingredient is most soup stock. Onion, Carrot and Celery. Napolitano sauce recipe uses it including the top leafy section, for flavour. I have a recipe for Anda Bhurji which says substitute Celery leaf for Fresh Kasoori Methi if not available.
-
Ah, there is no page nine in that thread when viewed on a PC ! Last page is page four.
-
Mine goes up to page 19 Phil. Tablet and PC.
"Talked about Base Sauce with Take away owner and Chef" started by Mark J in 2005.
-
I see only pages one to four, with page-4 ending :
Thank you very much Mark, I will have a go with this soon along with Darth's darkside base.
Happy Cooking
CP
** Phil.
-
How to double a recipe, same principle for downsizing
Multiply your spices, like salt, pepper and cinnamon, by 1.5 times the original recipe. If your recipe calls for 2 tsp. (12.2 g) of salt, you now need 3 tsp. (18.3 g) of salt.
Increase chili peppers and other hot spices by 1.25 times the original recipe. This includes curry powders, garlic powders and fresh hot peppers.
Increase salty, peppery and concentrated sauces by 1.5 times the original amount. If a sauce has alcohol in it, you may want to only increase it by 1.25 times
-
I see only pages one to four, with page-4 ending
** Phil.
That is reply number 184 which appears on Page 19 for me. Check reply number 80.
MA, I believe in and use non-linear scaling when upsizing to bulk quantities in preparing spiced final dishes. All of my research, advice and personal experience leads to this being the case and it isn't as straight cut as some would like it to be. There isn't a universal fail safe factor by which to multiply or divide every ingredient. There are helpful guides.
Base gravy, on the other hand, is usually so weakly spiced that it is able to be scaled up or down by a common factor without any significant problems. The finished product will still make an acceptable curry.
Is a 2 onion batch exactly the same as a 30 onion batch? Probably not. Can you still use it? Of course.
There are some people who refuse to believe one principle or the other. I feel that there is a need for both linear and non-linear scaling and each has a place.
-
Check reply number 80.
Gotcha
-
As I can't use the quote function in the archived section this is copy and paste.
Quote: Andy2295 Jan 06 2007: found here https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1476.0 (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1476.0)
"Basic curry base/ gravy.
As the chefs have an eye for visual measurement using their cooking spoon, we decided to weigh out all of the separate ingredients one evening while we made up a batch of base sauce/gravy. Please do NOT try to half the recipe amounts listed here as the results are not the same. We tried it! By all means proportion out to get a reduced stock but pure halving of ingredients is no good."
Andy's Base gravy is quite a complex affair, and more so than any other I've attempted. Despite the specific warning of not directly halving, I actually did deliberately just that to test the theory. I even went out and bought a large Mooli Radish and ended up tossing the other half. Without having done a side by side of the full quantity and the half quantity, I cant say anything to them being the same or not. What I can say is that directly halving the recipe quantity still produced a perfectly acceptable and usable Base Gravy.
If this is the case with a Base Gravy as complex as this then it is surely the case for a much simpler and less spiced recipe.
Unfortunately, Andy2295 never explained what he meant by proportion out the ingredients to get a reduced quantity, but it can be sure that he was referring to a non-linear approach to scaling. The recipe calls for 5 large carrots. I only used 2 1/2.
-
I've made a reduced quantity base gravy using 'George's' hints. I'll post in the relevent thread.
-
'Quote' worked for me, Livo
-
'Quote' worked for me, Livo