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Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: livo on March 26, 2020, 09:45 PM

Title: Naan bread
Post by: livo on March 26, 2020, 09:45 PM

Livo - I would also love to hear your naan secrets.


I was not happy with what I felt was the severe metallic / chemical after-taste associated with what I considered excessive baking powder in the popular favourite naan recipe and technique.   A now non-contributing member shared a few pointers with me in private including a private video. As he hasn't published this information, I didn't feel I should and still don't.

What I will say publicly is this; the recipe I was shown was described as UK genuine, Deluxe Naan.  Not a standard naan.  It is full dairy (not water), contains egg, uses self raising flour plus fresh yeast and no baking powder.  I have not used fresh yeast but dried instant and much preferred it to the popular favourite.  No after-taste. 

One day I will source fresh yeast to try it I hope. The full recipe is nothing you wouldn't expect. There is more than one dairy product but nothing you haven't see before. Anybody understanding Bakers percentages and dough consistency will be able to deduce a similar naan from this information.  It isn't really a secret recipe but it isn't mine and I was given it in private.  I respect this and out of this respect, I won't write it verbatim on the public forum.

Of course cooking in a tandoor makes a considerable difference as well, albeit that the tawa technique is convenient.

The same member also told me what any BIR chef would list as the ingredients in a normal BIR naan, if asked.  Surprisingly simple.

I also highly rate the School of Artisan Food naan.  It is different to the UK deluxe naan but just as good in my opinion.
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: romain on March 26, 2020, 11:07 PM


I also highly rate the School of Artisan Food naan.  It is different to the UK deluxe naan but just as good in my opinion.

Thanks Livo,

You've given me a fine project while in what is effectively lockdown...
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: Gav Iscon on March 28, 2020, 11:10 AM


I also highly rate the School of Artisan Food naan.  It is different to the UK deluxe naan but just as good in my opinion.

Thanks Livo,

You've given me a fine project while in what is effectively lockdown...

Thats the second recommendation this week for that. I'll have to have a look. Hopefully naans on the go this week
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: romain on March 28, 2020, 01:40 PM
Sigh, I have the time on my hands to work hard on naan. I have the desire to work hard on naan. But I can't get flour. Shelves are bare. Lots of everything in general but the hoarders are onto flour and dried beans for some reason...
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: Naga on March 29, 2020, 02:27 AM
Thats the second recommendation this week for that. I'll have to have a look. Hopefully naans on the go this week

Make that the 3rd recommendation, Gav. It's my goto naan nowadays - my thanks to livo for finding it.
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: livo on March 30, 2020, 01:20 AM
For convenience here is the link again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSxFpyS-kDQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSxFpyS-kDQ)
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: Gav Iscon on March 30, 2020, 08:59 AM
For convenience here is the link again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSxFpyS-kDQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSxFpyS-kDQ)

Cheers Livo, was watching it yesterday. I'll have to make some butter milk as were trying to limit shopping at the minute.  :confusing2: :confusing2:
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: livo on March 30, 2020, 09:09 AM
At a pinch a bit of yogurt and either milk or water will do the same job.  Really stretching it would be some diluted white vinegar added to your milk.  It doesn't matter if it curdles as it's going into a dough anyway.

I have a supply of Easiyo in both vanilla (son and daughter) and plain which makes yogurt from water. Powdered milk, water and a culture will get you going.  You can start a culture from existing yogurt, vinegar, lemon or chilli stalks. Lots of info out there.  People were doing this before supermarkets and Covid-19.

Yogurt culture and growing yeast are really quite easy.  While they may not be commercial grade, it isn't too far different to the sub-continent methods.  Back to your roots people.
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: Naga on March 31, 2020, 12:01 AM
Cheers Livo, was watching it yesterday. I'll have to make some butter milk as were trying to limit shopping at the minute.  :confusing2: :confusing2:

I don't use buttermilk, Gav - too difficult to get hold of in these parts. But I do use fermented milk which is widely available in the supermarkets  -works a treat!  :like:
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: livo on April 01, 2020, 02:29 AM
SOAF Naan. 1 of 5.  Soft, light, fluffy and delicious. 

This photo was before butter ghee and chopped coriander.  For this batch I used the starter which had fermented for only about 4 - 5 hours at 40' C and the dough then sat and cold fermented for 24 hours.  The flavour profile that develops with aged dough is so much better than mix and cook.

I don't always add the black seed and cumin seed but for this batch I did.
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: romain on April 01, 2020, 04:26 AM
I still can't get flour - or yeast :cry:
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: Madrasandy on April 01, 2020, 06:55 AM
I still can't get flour - or yeast :cry:

Me neither !
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: romain on April 04, 2020, 11:48 PM
Borrowed (begged really) a bit of flour and did manage to get some yeast.

Attempt number one. Didn't fuss too much on the recipe as I was just testing technique in a pizza oven. Fired these at around 765F. Puffed up completely so I will stick to that temp for now.

They puffed completely which I didn't really expect.



Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: livo on April 06, 2020, 07:54 AM
They will do that Romain.  I've had many naan do exactly the same thing.  If you watch the videos on naan you will see that the maker often heavily uses their finger tips to give the naan bread a stippled effect just before baking. This seems to assist in the formation of individual multiple bubbles rather than the big single bubbles condition you have there.

To be honest it doesn't matter, as long as they eat well.  How did they taste? How was the texture?  That's what matters.
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: romain on April 06, 2020, 05:24 PM
I could have flattened them more as I found them a bit thick. The texture was good though.

The recipe was a quick rise with a lot of yeast so the flavour was under-developed IMO but I expected that. Managed to get some flour finally so I will be working on it now. :smile2:
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: SomeCurryFan on April 11, 2020, 07:39 PM
Hmm really interesting topic, my guess is that the secret ingredient is evaporated milk, i dunno why tho.
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: livo on April 11, 2020, 09:25 PM
Hi SomeCurryFan. I've never used evaporated milk in a naan and I'm not sure it's mentioned anywhere I've seen. Milk and buttermilk, yes, but not evaporated although it is a possibility and may be worth investigation. The other dairy product commonly used is yogurt or curd, which is hardly a secret.  Then of course you have the addition or not of egg, the use of yeast or not. Self raising V plain flour and the use or not of Baking Powder.
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: livo on April 12, 2020, 11:16 AM
Are we there yet?
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on April 12, 2020, 12:39 PM
Are we there yet?

No, still stuck in a siding at Crewe, Livo (and "there for the duration", the porter informs me). But don't worry, you'll know when we get to Grimsby
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: Secret Santa on April 13, 2020, 08:04 PM
The recipe was a quick rise with a lot of yeast so the flavour was under-developed IMO but I expected that.

Talking of under-developed flavour I made some no-knead  bread yesterday and it was a pretty nice loaf but didn't have the right smell (in spite of the requisite 6-plus hour rise in lieu of kneading, around ten in this particular case). Now the yeast was the instant type and had been in the fridge for well over a year. Worked fine though. I was wondering, do you have to use fresh yeast to get the right loaf smell? Last time I baked with fresh yeast was at school and by God I could have eaten a hundered of those loaves it was that good. Never tasted one better since.
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: livo on April 13, 2020, 11:30 PM
In theory, the answer is no. Liquid, cake or dried yeast are each presentations of the same organism in a form that is convenient to different applications or scale of production.  In practice, fresh yeast may provide the smell and taste you are missing.  The smell of fresh cooked bread (and colouration) is the Maillard reaction of the cooking crust.

They should be the same, however, there are different types of dried yeast.  Active dry yeast, Instant and  "rapid" or "quick".  For the most part they are interchangeable but really should be used as intended.

With dry yeast the words proving or proofing are often used in error when what is actually occurring is hydration, unless a little sugar (or flour) is added.  Then you have both.  Basic Active dry yeast needs to be (can benefit from being) hydrated before use, whereas Instant and Rapid don't.  The latter was developed for bread machine simplicity containing enzymes allowing for single rise. In fact proofing Rapid rise may prevent it from doing the job properly.  Fresh liquid and cake yeast, if old, should be proved / proofed to check viability.  The scale of ingredients used in bakeries is too big to chance using dead yeast.

Out here fresh yeast is really only available commercially now.

Proving / Proofing:  While it is probably correct to believe that the word proving was originally used to describe "testing" the viability of yeast, it has evolved into proofing which has different meanings now in baking.  While it can still be in reference to testing viability it also has a different use.  The use of proof boxes and the process of proofing is also in reference to the rest periods in bread production where rising is taking place prior to baking.  Yes, there is confusion and disagreement.  :omg:
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: Donald Brasco on April 14, 2020, 09:13 AM
Fresh yeast is normally available anywhere bread is baked from scratch and sold to the public, even if it
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on April 14, 2020, 09:32 AM
Also the Asda in-store bakery, in my experience Donald.  And if you are lucky enough to get to speak to the master baker in person, he may even offer you tips on how to achieve their "Tiger bread" crust !

** Phil.
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: Naga on April 14, 2020, 11:27 PM
But for those in the Uk - Sainsbury
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: romain on April 15, 2020, 12:02 PM
The recipe was a quick rise with a lot of yeast so the flavour was under-developed IMO but I expected that.

Talking of under-developed flavour I made some no-knead  bread yesterday and it was a pretty nice loaf but didn't have the right smell (in spite of the requisite 6-plus hour rise in lieu of kneading, around ten in this particular case). Now the yeast was the instant type and had been in the fridge for well over a year. Worked fine though. I was wondering, do you have to use fresh yeast to get the right loaf smell? Last time I baked with fresh yeast was at school and by God I could have eaten a hundered of those loaves it was that good. Never tasted one better since.

Livo covered this off well so I will just add that I meant that I was dealing with a short ferment based on a lot of commercial yeast and so there was no time to allow complexity of flavour to develop.
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: Donald Brasco on April 22, 2020, 07:17 AM
But for those in the Uk - Sainsbury
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on June 16, 2020, 02:49 PM
One for all naan lovers :  https://mrsbalbirsingh.com/blogs/recipes/mrs-balbir-singhs-traditional-naan-recipe
** Phil.
Title: Re: Naan bread
Post by: livo on June 16, 2020, 10:34 PM
This is very similar to a UK Deluxe Dairy naan I've referred to previously.  It contains 3 out of the 4 most common leavening methods so it should produce a very puffy bread.

Make it 4 from 4 with SR Flour and it should lift like a helium balloon.