Curry Recipes Online
Curry Base Recipes => Curry Sauce, Curry Base , Curry Gravy Recipes, Secret Curry Base => Topic started by: pap rika on May 14, 2020, 12:45 PM
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So this is the latest offering of a BIR base sauce with a further video to follow on his interpretation of it use,
I'll leave you to decide :confusing:
https://youtu.be/Za-78k5Gl3I
Regards pap rika
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Looks very close to a few Balti Bases i have made in the past, instead of placing who;e spices in they are placed in a spice ball.
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As I did with my last batch of base, in fact.
** Phil.
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Everyone and their dog is jumping on the BIR bandwagon.
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Well, "fascinating", is all I can say. Finally found time to watch more than the first 30 seconds, and was intrigued to discover just how thick the end product was. Now all we have to do is to wait for the next video to discover how the base is diluted to make the final curry.
** Phil.
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What is the second spice he adds directly after the mustard seeds? Is he saying 5 spices (ie, panch phoron)?
Keeps in the fridge 14 days because no water is added.
He does say it has lots of flavour. All those whole spices blitzed into the mix. Bay leaf, cassia bark, star anise, black and green cardamom and cloves plus all the seeds. This is a very different approach compared to the familiar mildly spiced wet base gravy.
It will be very interesting to see what he makes with it in the next episode.
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What is the second spice he adds directly after the mustard seeds? Is he saying 5 spices (ie, panch phoron)?
Certainly sounded like five (something) spices when I first heard it, and again today. Just realised that he is wearing a turmeric-coloured cable-knit jumper
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I noticed the jumper as well and had the exact same thought. I'm a notoriously messy person in busy mode with absolutely no consideration given to clothing preservation. Curry day is the colour of Turmeric although yesterday I actually spent the time to cover the gas stove with alfoil for the first time.
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[...] yesterday I actually spent the time to cover the gas stove with alfoil [...]
The eye sees what the eye expects to see
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Everyone and their dog is jumping on the BIR bandwagon.
Here's another one that's jumped on the bandwagon, a positive side to the lockdown, if their is such a thing. Stay safe all.
https://youtu.be/3c3_hPzi6pU
Regards pap rika
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Two very different approaches, but interestingly both start by frying the whole spices. I watched the follow-up to "Fusion Inspired"'s base (Chicken Madras) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wov32lzTUQ) and that was also an interestingly different approach to the norm. Not convinced that many chicken Madras have yoghurt in them, but his clearly does, although he does seem to try to leave most of the pre-cook sauce behind.
** Phil.
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I doubt restaurants would have that much by-product. The cooked marinade and the excess amount of sauce in the Madras would become a huge drain on profit unless all of the sauce is served. If this is the case, the dish again shows the difference in UK gravy : meat ratio compared to my expectation and how I cook curry.
A large amount of carrot in the base gravy is new and he removed the whole spices, tree bark and leaves, before blending.
Interesting to see the 2 different substances both referred to as tomato puree. Out here we have paste, puree, passata, diced and whole.
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Well here it is, the follow up video using his base sauce
https://youtu.be/_hxwtC1MYzI
Regards pap rika
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And here (https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/lichfield-curry-king-abdul-salam-188202) you can see where he learned his trade.
** Phil.
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Well here it is, the follow up video using his base sauce
https://youtu.be/_hxwtC1MYzI
Regards pap rika
Not really BIR is it?
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Other than being Indian food made using a base gravy and mxied powder in Britain by a recognised Bangladeshi British Indian Restaurant chef from the Birmingham area you mean?
It was more than a single serve. The chicken wasn't pre-cooked boneless. Easily adjusted to BIR norms. I'd say what he has demonstrated here is one of his "signature" dishes, ie, 1960. (see the menu)
https://www.easterneyelichfield.co.uk/restaurant-menu (https://www.easterneyelichfield.co.uk/restaurant-menu)
All the BIR standards are there as well. Would you look at that? Cheese naan!
Edit: Fixed broken link to menu. Now working.
Water added very last answers your question Phil.
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:omg: Having cooked the Guinness Book of World Records biggest curry, at over 10 tonnes, I guess this is the guy we should ask about linear scaling of spices. :smiling eyes:
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:omg: Having cooked the Guinness Book of World Records biggest curry, at over 10 tonnes, I guess this is the guy we should ask about linear scaling of spices.
I seem to recall that when I was fortunate enough to still live in Kent, and my local BIR (The Taj of Kent) ran a stall at a local charity event, the bhuna chicken that they served from the stall (clearly cooked in bulk) was far better than the single-portion version that they served in the restaurant. I can only think that when cooking in bulk they use traditional methods which are far better suited to up-scaling.
As to Chef Abdul Salam, I confess that I was absolutely gob-smacked when I saw just how much raw chicken he was adding to the wok !
** Phil.
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It's the same with his Bengali beef video Phil. 3 kg of beef and I cooked it as per the recipe. After dinner the other night, at which 5 people had a helping, I put 3 full 750ml takeaway containers in the fridge. I'll need to freeze 2 of them tomorrow.
I'm going to give his base gravy a try complete with ground up whole spices. Then I'll make his chicken curry but this time I'll only do half. He surely must know something about it.
As for linear scaling I can say that I was surprised at how little spice is used for the 3 kg beef and as already reported in that thread, way too much salt.
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Not really BIR is it?
It's obviously not a single-dish typical BIR curry, no. I think it's more like a staff curry.
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But it is very much what I used to eat in a real Indian (i.e., full of Indian customers) caf
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Not really BIR is it?
It's obviously not a single-dish typical BIR curry, no. I think it's more like a staff curry.
Doesn't he even state at the start that it's a home style curry
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The description of the video is below:
COOKING CHICKEN CURRY WITH BASE GRAVY BRITISH INDIAN RESTAURANT (BIR)
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1960
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The beef curry is just (insert just about anyone Indian you know) home cooking. Close to my heart - I grew up on it and still cook like that a lot.
This chicken curry/thick onion puree approach has me intrigued. I think there's something good here - I just need to play with it a bit to figure it out. I doubt he just gave up his full technique (it's his signature dish after all) but he does give (me at least) a lot to think about.
I looked at the reviews for this restaurant. There are a few of the usual "my coffee was too expensive so I am giving it 1 star" idiot reviews but overall it seems extremely well reviewed.
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Personally, I don't give a t@ss whether it is "genuine BIR" (is there such a thing ?), "fusion BIR", "fusion home-style", or "pure traditional Indian cooking"
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Yeah, but it's not a Madraloo, a Jalpioza or a Vindanaga. Must be some foreign muck. Chicken with bones. Phhhhh. :lol:
Sorry. I couldn't help it. That wasn't very BIR of me.
I'll stop now. :Clown:
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This chicken curry/thick onion puree approach has me intrigued. I think there's something good here - I just need to play with it a bit to figure it out. I doubt he just gave up his full technique (it's his signature dish after all) but he does give (me at least) a lot to think about.
Romain
This is a similar puree approach I now use as standard, for me it is achievable by the use of a slow cooker. Think of reverse engineering whereby your aim is to remove as much liquid as possible whilst retaining or intensifying the flavour.
Proceed with your base to the point prior to adding any liquid, then transfer ingredients to a slow cooker, just cover with water and cook on low heat, adding more water only when and if needed, When you see the oil rise and are happy with the reduction liquidize the contents, carton up or cook further till required consistency is achieved. The only warning I will give is to carefully remove the skin which will form around the interior rim of the cooker as it reduces prior to liquidizing. It can give a burnt taste if left in.
For me it works, I now have 12 portion's within three 300 ml containers. Instead of the usual 12 containers, great space saver, I am also able to defrost each portion quicker, whilst adding the appropriate liquid/stock to suit the dish i.e.chicken, beef, lamb vegetarian etc. Further enhancing the flavour of the dish. Like I said it works for me, try it, you might like
Regards pap rika
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Yeah, but it's not a Madraloo, a Jalpioza or a Vindanaga. Must be some foreign muck. Chicken with bones. Phhhhh. :lol:
Sorry. I couldn't help it. That wasn't very BIR of me.
Seems a bit airy-fairy, to my mind ... !
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This chicken curry/thick onion puree approach has me intrigued. I think there's something good here - I just need to play with it a bit to figure it out. I doubt he just gave up his full technique (it's his signature dish after all) but he does give (me at least) a lot to think about.
Romain
This is a similar puree approach I now use as standard, for me it is achievable by the use of a slow cooker. Think of reverse engineering whereby your aim is to remove as much liquid as possible whilst retaining or intensifying the flavour.
Proceed with your base to the point prior to adding any liquid, then transfer ingredients to a slow cooker, just cover with water and cook on low heat, adding more water only when and if needed, When you see the oil rise and are happy with the reduction liquidize the contents, carton up or cook further till required consistency is achieved. The only warning I will give is to carefully remove the skin which will form around the interior rim of the cooker as it reduces prior to liquidizing. It can give a burnt taste if left in.
For me it works, I now have 12 portion's within three 300 ml containers. Instead of the usual 12 containers, great space saver, I am also able to defrost each portion quicker, whilst adding the appropriate liquid/stock to suit the dish i.e.chicken, beef, lamb vegetarian etc. Further enhancing the flavour of the dish. Like I said it works for me, try it, you might like
Regards pap rika
Thanks pap rika. I'm actually thinking of this as a way to get larger volume of curry with the texture of the usual Indian restaurant curry. I have always wondered how they do it those lunch buffets. Not traditional but not the usual cook to order either. And still (depending on the particular restaurant) very tasty. Interesting stuff to play with for sure.
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It doesn't matter if it's "BIR" or not. I'll make this recipe and try it out. Then, after having made it, I might make comment on the end result and where I am, whether it's "BIR" or not won't matter.
This has great potential and I'm eager to give it a go.
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This has great potential and I'm eager to give it a go.
I agree. I'm also keen to try both the base and chicken curry. I've never heard of anyone processing solid spices and bay leaves with a blender before, but that's not to say it's a bad way of preparing a base.
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It doesn't matter if it's "BIR" or not. I'll make this recipe and try it out. Then, after having made it, I might make comment on the end result and where I am, whether it's "BIR" or not won't matter.
This has great potential and I'm eager to give it a go.
I have no issues with it not being BIR; I love traditional/homestyle/whatever you want to call it cooking.
My only issue was with it being advertised as BIR, and being something completely different.
BTW Livo - please observe social distancing and keep at least two metres between my posts and yours :like:
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I have no issues with it not being BIR; I love traditional/homestyle/whatever you want to call it cooking.
My only issue was with it being advertised as BIR, and being something completely different.
I agree with you, too.
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My concern as well George, so I'll probably split it in two before blending only half the bark and leaf in one portion. I doubt it will be significant but you never know.
I take your point Garp. I admit to being initially frustrated with Latif's Inspired for making a base gravy but then showing more traditionally cooked dishes that didn't use it. He eventually did and I don't know how he actually cooks in his restaurant for service to patrons. But really, if Chef Abdul actually used this method to produce the dish he sold in the restaurant and it is a Base Gravy and Mixed Powder dish what exactly makes it not BIR? You've said it isn't BIR. Why is it not?
Is it just the chicken cooked from raw? Misty Ricardo recently ran a live stream giving similar advice. You could use pre-cooked or cook in the dish.
Is it just the reverse process of dilution at the finish instead of start wet and reduce in stages. Is it because he used a wok instead of an aluminium pan? Is it because he cooked it at home?
I'm not having a chip at you Garp. I'd just really like to know what it is exactly that makes any dish BIR or not. I've converted traditional recipes to replicate the commonly practised "BIR" method before and done side by side with no significant discernable difference.
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... You've said it isn't BIR. Why is it not? Is it just the chicken cooked from raw? Misty Ricardo recently ran a live stream giving similar advice. You could use pre-cooked or cook in the dish.
You raise an interesting point and it's my reason for being keen to try Abdul's recipe. I believe there's no better way to kill a BIR style curry than adding fresh chicken with minimal spicing like Misty does. But Abdul adds so much spice that it could compensate for all the chicken juices and taste good.
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what exactly makes it not BIR? You've said it isn't BIR. Why is it not?
It's not ... because of the quantity made and the time taken. A true BIR curry, as exemplified in this forum, is a single portion dish able to be cooked in five to ten minutes. Just as in a BIR or takeaway on a busy night. BIR is a term introduced on this forum in its early days and now liberally abused by various Youtube patrons.
Of course, technically, anything cooked in a BIR is a BIR dish but for the aforementioned reason ... not always!
P.S. I just noticed your point about the use of raw chicken. The only time you'll see raw chicken being used in a BIR is for a staff curry, like in this one. In all BIR curries it will be precooked meat as a time saving and hygiene factor, so that would be another reason for this not being what we know as BIR.
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It's not ... because of the quantity made and the time taken. A true BIR curry, as exemplified in this forum, is a single portion dish able to be cooked in five to ten minutes. Just as in a BIR or takeaway on a busy night. BIR is a term introduced on this forum in its early days and now liberally abused by various Youtube patrons.
My guess is that he has adapted his signature dish for home cooking in this video. I looked at the images in his gallery and I didn't see any chicken curry on the bones. Plus from what I gather, the dining public generally wouldn't go for it.
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Thanks SS. Your answer makes complete sense and is sort of what I expected. It also infers that there is "The BIR Method" which is not restricted to Britain as it is now used globally, and there is "BIR food" which is geographically limited to The British Isles and may or may not be prepared using The BIR Method.
In future when I'm asked if I've ever tried BIR food I can answer "yes but no".
Indian takeaways and food hall outlets over here have curries pre-cooked in heated bain-marie. Is this something you have in UK? I've seen these cooked and it isn't traditional home style or done in single serves to order, but it is definately Indian restaurant style food. Can bulk dishes for multiple helpings be considered BIR?
It doesn't matter. What does matter is that Chef Abdul has provided a restaurant base gravy version that is different and interesting. I recently tried another different curry base raised here in the forum (Waqar from Sweet Centre Bradford video) and my family loved the dishes I made in using it. I look forward to giving Chef Abdul's gravy a test run with both the dish he made and in BIR Method dishes.
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when I started eating Indian food in this country, "on the bone" was the norm, with a 50p surcharge for "off the bone" and a further 50p surcharge for breast rather than leg.
I recall the same choice but it was all pre-cooked so nothing like Abdul's recipe.
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Out of interest; what was Misty Ricardos name when he was on this forum?
Regards
Mick
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rshome123 (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?action=profile;u=21360), Mick.
** Phil.
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My guess is that he has adapted his signature dish for home cooking in this video. I looked at the images in his gallery and I didn't see any chicken curry on the bones. Plus from what I gather, the dining public generally wouldn't go for it.
Not today, perhaps, but when I started eating Indian food in this country, "on the bone" was the norm, with a 50p surcharge for "off the bone" and a further 50p surcharge for breast rather than leg. Somewhere on this forum there is a photograph of a menu from that era
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when I started eating Indian food in this country, "on the bone" was the norm, with a 50p surcharge for "off the bone" and a further 50p surcharge for breast rather than leg.
I recall the same choice but it was all pre-cooked so nothing like Abdul's recipe.
Are you sure, George ? I think I have been eating BIR food for as long as most members of this forum (since 1963, to be precise), and in those days all I was interested in were the incredible flavours. It was many many years before I started wondering what goes on behind the scenes in a BIR in order to create those flavours ...
** Phil.
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Phil - I first tasted BIR food almost 20 years after you so the situation may have changed, plus the fact that I frequented only a few BIRs in the provinces and only tried London places some years after that. I never came across slow-cooked dishes on the bone but that's not to say they weren't available. The choice seemed to be breast or other for classic dishes.
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when I started eating Indian food in this country, "on the bone" was the norm, with a 50p surcharge for "off the bone" and a further 50p surcharge for breast rather than leg.
I can't remember the exact prices and tbh I am fairly certain, in Bradford back in the 1980's, it was probably not "Indian" (restaurants, eat in only) anymore but rather Bangladeshi or Pakistani (takeaways/delivery). I do remember the prices being as you say, more for off the bone though.
I remember my wife in the 90's getting an occasional Friday night Chicken tikka curry and peeling the meat from the bone to feed to our 1 year old, sauce and all. He loves curry btw whereas my daughter, the qualified chef, does not (She is lvl 3 Pastry Chef, so more sweet and savoury than spicy).
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I made Chef Abdul's gravy and Chicken curry tonight. Flavour is not missing and I've learnt that you don't need to be timid with spice. I had to use boneless thigh fillets so it cooked faster but the end result was very pleasing. A delicious curry in quick time and easy to do.
George, I just blended the whole lot and it is fine. It makes the wizz stick clunk a bit at first with the bark and star anise. I used a couple of thinner pieces of bark rather than the chunky stuff.
A word of warning. After already having cooked Chef's Bengali Beef I was aware of his preferred salt levels. I used about half of his specified amounts in both the gravy and the dish and it is plenty. Salt sparingly and adjust to taste.
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Livo - thanks very much for trying this out and reporting that the blending of whole spices is viable. I guess it produces curry powder later rather than sooner. Did the overall flavour of the finished dish remind you of any standard curry? Is it a recipe you'll repeat or is it not quite that good?
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It is well worth going through the procedure. I did the whole lot in about 2 hours but without chicken on bone. It produced a very nice curry. The intensity of chilli heat is easily controlled by individual preference. Yes, I will be making it again and I hope to find other suitable uses for this base gravy. It is very good.
Try it out. 5 medium onions didn't produce that much and it is quite concentrated. My only words of warning are:
1. Reduce the salt.
2. Have a good stick blender.
2 hours was start to finish. Base gravy and curry cooked. From nothing on the bench to dinner cooked. I did rice simultaneously. I only used about 1/3 of the gravy and could have used less, so it is a very economically viable recipe as well. The fact that it can keep in the fridge is a big bonus as well.
To answer your question about if it reminded me of a particular dish, the short answer is no. It is in its own league as a very nice flavoursome and enjoyable chicken curry.
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(I thought about bumping but it seems that there are two distinct base gravies from this guy and it might be easier to discuss in one place - both make thick gravy.)
So the original post has a gravy with no tomatoes, no chilli, and more onion.
The second recipe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpqMBueLBtI
has quite generous tomato and some chilli - and a quite different technique.
I'm quite taken by it but my wife likes a korma and I'd guess that the first of them would be better for that.
Has anyone tried the second recipe as a base for spicy tomato-based curries?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpqMBueLBtI
I made this tonight. It exactly fills 3 off ASDA silocone ice cube trays (I have a butter chicken risotto on the go for tonight). Somewhere around 1.45l I think.
It has the look and consistency of Tomato and Mascarpone sauce, but is more tomatoey and subtly spiced - which was a surprise because I did not go easy with hot chilli powder. It would probably do as an interesting veggie pasta sauce as it is, to be honest.
Not sure I'm up to understanding how the img tag works, but there's a pic here: https://foodtribe.com/p/base-gravy-CJm_DQZVSCu9sVHJcpHUyw?iid=GYMfUxlZTsyPAZKga3zT_A
I'm looking forward to using this.
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Are you a little confused? Mascarpone and Risotto and veggie pasta sauce aren't usual dishes found on the menu for Indian curry. Maybe Paneer and Pilau?
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Are you a little confused? Mascarpone and Risotto and veggie pasta sauce aren't usual dishes found on the menu for Indian curry. Maybe Paneer and Pilau?
Not at all. My meal last night was https://monfoodblog.com/2014/04/15/butter-chicken-risotto/ and it was pretty good.
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Not at all. My meal last night was https://monfoodblog.com/2014/04/15/butter-chicken-risotto/ and it was pretty good.
I can believe it was good, although I question whether adding wine was a good idea. What you really made was a type of biriani, of course. Several UK supermarkets sell chilled food labelled as Chicken Tikka biriani. The sauce and rice are separate and you mix them together to form quite a tasty dish. That's also quite similar.
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Not at all. My meal last night was https://monfoodblog.com/2014/04/15/butter-chicken-risotto/ and it was pretty good.
I can believe it was good, although I question whether adding wine was a good idea. What you really made was a type of biriani, of course. Several UK supermarkets sell chilled food labelled as Chicken Tikka biriani. The sauce and rice are separate and you mix them together to form quite a tasty dish. That's also quite similar.
In effect its risotto the normal way and just spiced chicken instead of the shredded roast leftovers I'd normally use. I'm soaking my last Basmati supplies as I type but Oh Dear I do have a lot of Arborio and I don't like to throw it away. I could try just cooking it a normal way and putting up with starchiness. Maybe that is an answer.
I've frozen the base gravy sludge now in ice-cube trays, I have yet to dilute and use it. Maybe tomorrow, an 'Als Kitchen' korma with coconut milk powder instead of coconut flour (tried before, Dan Toombs book recipe).
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpqMBueLBtI
I made this tonight. It exactly fills 3 off ASDA silocone ice cube trays (I have a butter chicken risotto on the go for tonight). Somewhere around 1.45l I think.
Now frozen, 1.580kg, 45 cubes about 35g each. I suspect dilute with 2x or 3x water, should render about 105-150ml each cube.