Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: Bob-A-Job on May 07, 2020, 12:46 AM
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I know there are various ways to 'tenderise' meat and I presummed it wasn't just the use of a mallet...
A quick search brought up this Sheknows (https://www.sheknows.com/food-and-recipes/articles/1113383/how-to-tenderize-meat) and only this that mentions yogurt as far as I can see.
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Papaya is a well known tenderizer and it is often used to make tough rubbery things like octopus and cuttlefish softer to eat (or so they say). Apparently the same enzyme is found in kiwifruit, although I tried it on a large cuttlefish I caught one time and it made absolutely no difference.
There have been discussions on the marination of meats using yogurt and whether there is any benefit of long time over short time. Some say that long marination is actually detrimental and causes the cooked product to present as dried out and chalky. I have had tandoori marinades going for quite some time and not really noticed any dryness. I've also done short marination times with good results.
I am a big fan of Southern Fried / Louisiana chicken and I often do a marinade in either buttermilk of a mix of natural or Greek yogurt and milk. It works for me and you can bread the chicken directly from the marinade to the breading mix.
It's a shame the OP of the seekh kebab thread never actually posted a recipe because they do look nice.
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Quick answers to all points so-far raised :
1) I am assuming that Bob was referring to a proprietary enzyme-based tenderiser, so I ordered (and have now received) 2lb Badia Meat Tenderiser [1], as well as a couple of smaller packs of Rajah. Bob, I seem to recall, surmised that papaya would be too expensive for production lines such as Lahore 1
2) I wasn't phazed by the absence of a recipe in that I have eaten sufficient Lahore-style kebabs to have a reasonable idea of what goes in them.
3) The essence, to my mind, is first to create the texture (so that it sticks together on the seekh, and has the correct mouth feel), and then and only then worry about getting the spicing and other ingredients right. On this first occasion, I just used Patak's catering-size Madras Kebab paste, frequently mentioned and recommended by a former member of this forum.
4) I seem to recall that I also looked at Razor's kebab recipes, Ray being a reliable sort of chap.
5) Herself suggested that I use pineapple as a tenderiser, but I thought that the flavour would be too obvious.
6) I have e-mailed Bob, but no answer as of today.
** Phil.
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[1] Active enzyme bromelain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromelain)
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Ive used baking soda before now which is good on beef but tends to leave it very slimy so I dont bother any more a local (so called up market chinese/malaysian restaurant uses it and I find it completely ruins the meal for me. Might be worth investigating any way
Regards
Mick
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Ive used baking soda before now which is good on beef but tends to leave it very slimy so I dont bother any more a local (so called up market chinese/malaysian restaurant uses it and I find it completely ruins the meal for me. Might be worth investigating any way
Thanks for the suggestion, Mick. In fact, my wife also suggested bicarb., but now that the "real" tenderiser has arrived, I will give that a go first, just as soon as the mince has defrosted.
** Phil..
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OK, so now I have both papain-based and bromelain-based tenderisers (Rajah, Badia), but interestingly neither Laziza nor Shan suggest the use thereof in their on-packet recipes. For reference, here is each :
1) Shan. 1kg double-minced meat; 200gm suet; 2
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The Shan has papaya in the Masala among other things. The Laziza has mince ground to a paste, ie; emulsified like sausage.
I've tried both and prefer the Laziza.
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The Shan has papaya in the Masala among other things.
Well spotted, that man. I had completely missed that. Nothing similar or analogous in the Laziza apart from Amchoor
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The Laziza has mince ground to a paste, ie; emulsified like sausage.
It will be interesting to see how my 2kW jug blender (Silvercrest) copes with minced lamb ...
Well, apart from a rather alarming "very warm" odour, all went well, and the consistency of the minced lamb has changed beyond belief. It has been mixed with the pulverised onion, chillies and masala (courtesy of the Kenwood Major
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Ah yes! The worrying odour of a warm electric motor. At least is wasn't the acrid smell of electrical components reaching smoke point. I hope the kebabs aroma was a bit nicer.
There is always the urge to "overcook" kebabs, tikka, souvla etc. I prefer mine to be slightly underdone as they will continue to cook in their own heat. Chicken is the tricky one but I have no objection to eating lamb or beef a bit rare and it's usually nicer that way.
I'll be interested to know your preference between Laziza and Shan. I know my own preference and it's chalk and cheese in my opinion.
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Only tried the Laziza so far, Livo (and that on your recommendation), but there's still a lot of raw kebab mix to cook before I can start on the next batch ! And the kebabs weren't overcooked (I eat everything rare, including chicken and pork) but very charred on the outside, which is why I plan to cook them at a lower heat next time and also try to make them thinner.
** Phil.
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Accept my apologies Phil. I wasn't saying you'd overcooked your kebabs. I was meaning to say MY own urge is to overcook anything on a skewer, even though I know it needs tender care to get it right. Often I don't.
My Greek mate's father and sister cooked lamb Souvlaki sticks for many people one time and I was lucky enough to be in attendance. Using just a humble little double Hibachi and charcoal the results were superb. Served with just a squeeze of fresh lemon and a sprinkle of sea salt. Juicy, moist and plump, flavoursome and completely moreish. It is very difficult to get the timing just right.
I can't tell you how many times I've eaten overcooked tikka, souvla and kebabs and usually by mine own hand.
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Absolutely no apology needed, Livo
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I guess the thing is to get the meat mix right, but I overcome the problem by placing pieces of potato on the skewer last. It serves several functions in holding the kebabs up, acting as a heat shield to the bottom kebab and if you like, you can eat it. I've also used smaller slices between the kebabs or onion, capsicum or zucchini (sideways).
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OK, making the Shan version today. Only 250gm of minced lamb remaining, so I have scaled the other ingredients by 1/4, and rather than use 1/4 of a small onion I substituted two (round) shallots instead. These (it seems to me) have the advantage of being drier than normal onions, so I did not bother to try to squeeze the moisture out. I found that the blender base unit for my Kenwood stick beater was perfect for mincing up the shallots, ginger, coriander, etc., and when I put the mixture (inc. lamb mince) in the 2kW jug blender I used it on pulse mode rather than low-speed continuous. This prevented any worrying "I am overheating ..." smells, and the resulting lamb puree looks just as smooth as it did on the previous occasion. Not sure when I will cook it, but it will be within the next few days ...
** Phil.
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[reply moved from Indian Hotel Style Gravies (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=15479.msg137266#msg137266)]
Made the Shan seekh kebabs a couple of days ago (to spec., sans any additional fat/oil) and cooked one skewer at lunchtime for my wife and I. She loved it, our head chef (French) said it was too spicy for him ! Will check out the Hotel kebab masala next ...
** Phil.
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I made another batch of kebab mix over the weekend, using 1.2kg of minced lamb divided into 2 x 600gm portions so as not to risk burning out the blender. Both portions were made identically using the Shan recipe (inc. extra suet) and the only difference between the two was that one used 25gm of Laziza kebab masala and the other used the same of the Shan version. This evening I prepared four kebabs, two on each of two skewers, one skewer being for the Laziza kebabs and one for the Shan. My wife and I then had one kebab of each, and we agreed that (a) the Laziza was better, but not staggeringly so; (b) the Shan was a stronger and more salty flavour; and (c) that upscaling the recipe to 1.2kg (from 1kg recommended) while keeping the spice content invariant worked very well. The Laziza was, as far as I was concerned, indistinguishable from a good BIR or BIR T/A one. We scored the Laziza as 9/10 and the Shan as 7/10.
** Phil.
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I also prefer the Laziza, but you may have already guessed that. I do have some Shan boxes of different Masalas in the cupboard but I usually only use them if I run out of Laziza. I used Shan for my last batch and still enjoyed them. The Shan is available locally where I have to travel or mail order to get Laziza.
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Cooked some more seekh kebabs this evening, this time using the pre-pur
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Hi all. Hope everyone is OK. I think my curry mojo is returning. Cooked a couple of standard madras poppadoms last week. Disaster! Came out looking like Yorkshire puddings. But never mind the poppadoms, I have been on a keto diet for two years and shouldn't be eating them anyway. Kebab house seekh kebabs though; got to be done!
I did find out that my local Pakistani (benchmark) kebab house seekhs are chicken thigh mince, so no mutton etc. Also, getting the water out of the onions is really critical. Before I lost interest I was working along the lines of this recipe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxT7BV7IFi0
Off topic but I'll mention to remind myself. Somewhere I have written down on paper a recipe for a 100 % Manchester Abdul's shami kebab. Nailed it in the end. Must find the recipe. Key addition to the mix was ready made Zaatar (Thyme pastry topping). I used Sofra Zaatar Extra, which includes roasted wheat, roasted chickpeas, sumac, thyme and sesame seeds.
Rob :)
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How do you cook your popadom, Rob ? I break mine in half and drop a pair into my deep-fat fryer at 190C, then pull them out with chopsticks as soon as they stop making a noise and stack them in pairs (like a ridge roof) to drain on kitchen paper. Never had a failure that way. Or did I misunderstand and did you make your popadom from scratch (something I would never even consider attempting) ?
Re. seekh kebabs, I certainly intend to try Syed's version
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Hi Phil. Had the oil too hot for the pops probably ("ready made"). I use a large kahari type dish on the hob. There was no stopping them curling up to Yorkshire pud size. I used to be able to do them no problem. They were over three years beyond there best before date, which may also have been an issue.
I don't think blenders are needed for kebab house seekhs. I have watched them mixing by hand in the back at my local.
How are you doing with the springyfication? I used the powdered meat tenderiser for this; plenty of it as I recall. Not sure if my local use it. Their seekhs are super-springy. However, lost again, I did have a web link describing the use of tenderisers for minced meats. It must be somewhere on my laptop.
Rob :)
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Re. tenderisation / "springification" / stickiness, no need for any additional tenderisers (anyone want to buy a couple of kg ?!). The Laziza & Shan mixes contain all that is needed.
** Phil.
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Re. tenderisation / "springification" / stickiness, no need for any additional tenderisers (anyone want to buy a couple of kg ?!). The Laziza & Shan mixes contain all that is needed.
** Phil.
Interesting Phil. I recall getting nowhere with packet spice mixes for the seekh, although the Shan ingredients are close to what I would use. Here, I'd swap out the carom for green cardamom/mace. I wonder if the kebab houses use packet spice. Guess some may. I really think ditch the blender for kebab house seekh. Texture will be all wrong and the presentation could end up looking like a turd. Blending does come in for the Manchester Shami though, after the whole mix is pan cooked.
Rob :)
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Texture will be all wrong and the presentation could end up looking like a turd.
Texture is excellent (IMHO), but the presentation is unfortunately exactly as you describe although only while it is being skewered and extruded, not after it has been cooked. And just to clarify, when I use the term "Kebab-house", I mean the Lahore (Punjabi) kebab houses, not the Turkish ones.
[Update] I made the remaining Laziza mix into pre-extruded kebabs tonight, and it became immediately clear that the Laziza mix, as well as being milder, does not include the same effective proportion of tenderising enzymes. These were far harder to extrude satisfactorily than last night's Shan, and ended up being roughly 1/3 shorter (and proportionally fatter) as a result. Overall I am now inclined to upgrade Shan to 8/10.
** Phil.