Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: Curry King on March 28, 2005, 02:52 PM
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Yes its true he came round and showed me the gravy and vindaloo.
The gravy is the same as before, garlic and ginger (he said use a blended paste so u can see how much goes in) oil, water, onions, tinned toms, carrot, green pepper, tom puree and spices (coriander, cumin, turmeric and half the amount of garam masala). I asked him about packet curry powder and he thought I was joking when I said I used to put in the gravy, no curry powder at all in the gravy!!! Cook everything except the spices until boiling then add the spices. When the carrot is soft blend it and then return to the heat adding water until the oil seperates and its a runny consistancy. The gravy is done about an hour and a half it took! The curry, using about 3 tablespoons of veg oil fry a little garlic and ginger paste, I asked about browning it and he said they don't do it just heat it through. Add a little tom puree and stir in (this is for colour), now add chilli powder and spice, he said my spice mix was fine (from the curry house magazine) but he would put them in seperatly. Cook this for a minute and then add a little gravy stir in and add some more until you have enough sauce, add your precooked chicken and a little fresh coriander and its done, 4 mins it took. First taste I thought mmm nice but not right then I tried it again and it did have the taste, the consistancy and look was spot on. To be honest though I got more from watching how he cooked everything than the actual recipe, I think you could get a decent curry with any base if cooked right.
He did say though that you cant reproduce it at home, hes tried it before himself and couldnt get it exactly the same, he didnt really go into detail as to why but im happy that he wasn't lying or leaving anything out.
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welldone curryking, I will certainly be having a go at this and then I'll report back! Base is basic and very straightforward and vindaloo looks like a doddle, can't wait, I'm going out into my kitchen now. Thanks for that.
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First taste I thought mmm nice but not right then I tried it again and it did have the taste, the consistancy and look was spot on
He did say though that you cant reproduce it at home, hes tried it before himself and couldnt get it exactly the same,? he didnt really go into detail as to why but im happy that he wasn't lying or leaving anything out.
These two statements are contradictory. If it can't be done at home how did it have that special taste?
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hi, curryking
well done, it is a great post.
you are so lucky to have a chef in your house .
did the chef added any fenugreek leaves at the end of cooking.
thanks
ghanna
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These two statements are contradictory. If it can't be done at home how did it have that special taste?
That "taste" was there but you could tell it was home made, if you know what I mean. ?I think its as good as its going to get, theres no secret ingredient and no secret society of chefs. ?When I mentioned this to him he thought it was quite funny, also when I told him about all the people who are trying to recreate it who couldnt belive why we would go through the hassle.
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Hi ghanna,
Yeah it was lucky I kept hassling him for the recipes and he turned round and said I will come round and show you!!
There was no fenugreek leaves in the gravy and none in the vindaloo.
Another thing he didnt mention any measurments at all, it was a bit of this a lttle of that, also I missed out salt, he put put some in at the begining and more after it was blended. For the spices it was approx a heaped desert spoon of each execpt garam masala which was under half that. Oil was about 500ml and water as needed, 8 onions, 1 carrot, 1 tin of toms and 1 pepper. If anyone trys it please post back, ive just got another batch on the go.
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He did say though that you cant reproduce it at home, hes tried it before himself and couldnt get it exactly the same, he didnt really go into detail as to why but im happy that he wasn't lying or leaving anything out.
I had a chef round last September and he made me the base sauce which I posted on the in2curry site.
He turned up with the onions, tomato puree,spice mix, chilli powder.
He was ever such a nice chap.
He chopped the onions put them in the pot and added salt, water and? oil.
It boiled for for about twenty minutes then he pureed it with my hand blender.
Heat added the spice mix and tomato puree and cooked it another ten minutes.
He said to make a chicken vindaloo simply add chilli powder and chicken to the sauce.
"Is that it?" I asked
"Yes, there is nothing more." he said
The texture and look of the curry was perfect, but not the taste.
I am sure he was genuine and he took his own free time to come to my house.
In all honesty, I can say, that what he made was very similar, to what I could already produce.
Another chef told me there was no point in going to all the trouble to make the curry gravy.
You can get the same flavour using onions garlic and ginger.
He gave me a recipe which I tried and that was ok, but not with the flavour.
After reading your post ,and thinking about my chef's visit, I think for some technical reason you cannot produce exact restaurant curries at home.
I think you haven't got the heat you need.
The oil isn't getting hot enough.
The curry gravy should almost evaporate on contact with the pan.
Maybe that makes the flavour.
However, you did say it had "the" flavour a bit.
Maybe it was just too fresh?
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Yeah it had the taste but as said before the 2 restaurants near me produce completly differnt vindaloos and this one is different again. Im not sure why it didnt taste right the first time i tried it but second taste it was lovely, i think that the gravy tastes better after being left and we made the vindaloo staright after making the gravy so that probably didnt help.
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I think for some technical reason you cannot produce exact restaurant curries at home.
I think you haven't got the heat you need.
The oil isn't getting hot enough.
This weekend, for the first time in ages, I went to a take-away with an open plan kitchen. They only used one temperature for every stage of everything they were cooking for me and other customers - full blast heat.
I suggest that, to get as close to the restaurant kitchen approach, and taste, in your own home, there are a few things which are absolutely essential:
- a gas hob on full blast (If I had electric, I'd change the hob for sure!)
- figure out how to ignite/flambe the food every few seconds whilst cooking and rolling around the wok. The effect of fire must surely have a significant effect on the taste.
- unbelievably unhealthy quantities of vegetable oil and salt. There were load of huge drums of vegetable oil in the kitchen, compared to only a few small pots of ghee.
This may not be how they cook the base sauce, of course. I'm talking about stage 2 for the final dishes.
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Hi CK,
Absolutely fantastic CK, I'll try the base 2nite or tomorrow and will report back at that stage, and then I will report back after I have made the final dish in a few days,
Cheers CK,
Paul
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Yeah its worth it im just about to whip up a couple of currys with my fresh base, il take some pics of the base and final dish etc..
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As promised heres a few pics, ive just made the vindaloo and its lovely!! Please post any comments if you make it.
Cheers
cK
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Nice pics
Has it got the flavour?
And how much tom puree in the base?
I can almost smell the curry from your photos
Well done
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hi,curryking
very nice pictures,it look exactly like the restaurant curry.
well done
you made me very hungry
thanks
ghanna
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Yep ive just eaten it and it was lovely, to me it tasted great but I had the whole just cooked it didnt enjoy it as much thing. My GF and mate both had some and said it had the restaurant curry taste.
A few other tips I was given:
Instead of adding plain boiled water to the blended sauce you can add some whole spices, green pod, stick and bay leaves to it first, seive them out and add that as well.
He said when cooking the spice keep the heat low as it can burn, this I thought was strange as ive always asumed that everything is cooked on high??
Always reheat the gravy before using it
The garlic and ginger wasnt browned in the gravy or the curry, I asked him about this and he said it wasnt needed
One big thing was that he said scooping the oil of and reusing it was a no no for one its against health and safety regs, anyone know anything about this??
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One big thing was that he said scooping the oil of and reusing it was a no no for one its against health and safety regs, anyone know anything about this??
It could be about the free radical ideas.
That is a feature the oil takes on which makes it a potential cancer giver.
Chip shops use the same oil on for days, don't they?
I don't really understand.
But..........
I know that this is going on in curryhouses.
I have seen it.
Curryqueen said the oil at Bengal Cuisine fill their oil can (situated on the cooker) with oil salvaged from the curry gravy.
She was told if you want more spicy oil, then you add more at the start of making the gravy.
I have seen them do it at two places.
They dip their spoon in slightly to lift only the oil from the gravy pot.
Here is part of the recipe I emailed to people? back in October.
The Onion GravyOnions
Garlic ginger mixture
Green peppers
Tomatoes
Salt
Oil
Water
Cook the above for two hours
Spice Mix 1:-
Coriander 2
Cummin 1
Curry Powder ?
Turmeric 2
Paprika 2
Spice Mix 2:-
Cummin ?
Coriander 1
Add some of both spice mixture (2:1) and cook for another hour
Grind while the mixture is hot
This mixture is used for the following day
Bearing in mind that the quantities the restaurants cook in, you must allow for more time.
But it's really very similar to what you've been shown.
I reckon that alone concludes the theory that whatever reason we can't get the taste we're after,
is NOT because there is a hidden ingredient.
The chefs HAVE been honest
I think it is because the domestic cooker cannot reproduce the heat we want.
The best results I have got have been using the curry base with precooked ingredients with a Microwave Cooker.
Now that does get very hot!!
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One big thing was that he said scooping the oil of and reusing it was a no no for one its against health and safety regs, anyone know anything about this??
Yeah, like they're going to worry about that!
It's against health and safety regs to leave any food uncovered or where necessary unrefrigerated overnight. But that doesn't stop them leaving the base sauce out. They are well aware that as long as it is boiled for ten minutes the next day it will not have any ill effect.
Unless there's an environmental health inspector standing over their shoulder they will do whatever is most convenient for their business. What they say they do is one thing, what they actually do is entirely another.
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CURRY KING !! i just tried to put spoon through my monitor to taste the curry thats how good the pix look !!! ;D :-*
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Hi curry King
I have made a recipe list of your method for base sauce and vindaloo. I want to try to replicate it as closely as possible so can you fill in the missing quantities please. Also can you be more specific about what you mean by a tablespoon measure. I notice that only 3TBSP of oil is used in the vindaloo, that's 45mL, a tiny amount compared to what restaurants use.
Base Sauce
garlic ginger paste is this 50/50 mix? how much?
oil 500mL
spiced water ?
onion 8 (how big)? ? ? ? ?any particular type?
tinned toms 1 (how big)
carrot 1
green pepper 1
tom puree ?? ? ? ? ? ? ?which brand?
spices
coriander ?
cumin ?
turmeric ?
garam massala ?? ? ? ? ? ? ?which brand?
salt ?
Vindaloo
veg oil 3TBSP
garlic ginger paste ?
tom puree ?? ? ? ? ? ? ?which brand
chilli powder ?
spice mix (from Bruce Edwards Curry House Cooking, I think this is the one you mean)
mixed in these proportions
coriander 8
turmeric 7
cumin 5
curry powder 4? ? ? which brand?
paprika 4
how much of this mix goes in the vindaloo ?
curry sauce
pre cooked meat
coriander ?? (in sauce or just sprinkled on top?)
did you use the oil from the base sauce for the vindaloo?
Please add anything you may have previously forgotten, either recipe wise or technique.
Also if you get the chance can you ask your chef why he thinks the oil is used in the base sauce, i.e. what does it do, and why so much?
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Right for anyone who's intrested Ive just posted recipes for the gravy and vindaloo here http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=179.0?
Thats the best I can do for measurements etc..?
As for the oil, not much is used in the final curry as the gravy contains a lot blended with it, its not scooped of the top.? I asked about this he said if you have enough oil to scoop of you've used to much, I think this is personal preference though as we know it goes on but he doesn't do it.? The brands also don't matter too much, basically what ever is the cheapest!? Ive used regular supermarket puree and the big tinned stuff and theres not a great difference I could tell.? He said they use the cheapest stuff they can, which makes sense.
Happy currying
cK
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A few more questions Curry King.
Is the ginger garlic paste a 50/50 mix?
What size can of tomatoes is used?
What do you mean by dessert spoon, what is it in mL?
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Is the ginger garlic paste a 50/50 mix?
Yes
What size can of tomatoes is used?
A regular sized tin, I cant tell you the exact quantity as ive not got one here
What do you mean by dessert spoon, what is it in mL?
Ive no idea, it does not need to be measured exact, about a leveled tablespoon i would guess is about the same maybe a bit more.
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A desert spoon is usually 10ml, however if it is a rounded desert spoon then I would say that is a TBSP = 15ml
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I made the base.
It's very similar to the one I posted on this thread.
It's bright and flavoursome.
It's quite nice on it's own.
It is not too spiced to dominate the curry you will make with it.
But, I am sorry, there is no trace of "the taste" in it.
The demo you had, was the almost the same as I had at home, too.
I am sure the recipe is correct.
But ,for reasons unknown, it doesn't work at home.
I bet if you could use a commercial cooker it would be exact!
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He did say that to me though, that you can't reproduce it at home, he even tried himself and coudln't do it exactly the same. The vindaloo ive been making with that base IMO does have an element of that taste, yes its not as good as some restaurant currys ive had but its better than others and I would put money on that.
How did you make the curry Pete?
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He did say that to me though, that you can't reproduce it at home, he even tried himself and coudln't do it exactly the same.
I respectfully suggest that he's having you on. A restaurant kitchen is walls, floor and ceiling with certain equipment, methods and ingredients. It must be perfectly possible to recreate it 100% at home.
Say that to produce a fantastic expresso you needed a bar top Gaggia, plumbed in like in coffee bars. These cost ?3000++ and take up huge amounts of space. You may decide it's not worth it. But it could be done. The chefs almost certainly know 'the curry secret' but they are not letting on. This is not rocket science. It's something simple like flambe, oil reuse or the spice mix. But we apparently haven't found it yet.
I agree 100% with Grimmo's recent posting - that it's amazing the full explanation is not all over the internet, given that thousands and thousands of UK cooks all know exactly how it's done.
Regards
George
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I respectfully suggest that he's having you on. A restaurant kitchen is walls, floor and ceiling with certain equipment, methods and ingredients. It must be perfectly possible to recreate it 100% at home.
Says who?? No disrespect intended but have you spoken to any restaurant chefs that have told you that you CAN replicate it exactly at home and if I was lied to how come what I was shown was almost identical to what Pete was shown a year or so ago??
The chefs almost certainly know 'the curry secret' but they are not letting on.
So your suggesting that every single restaurant chef in the country are sworn to some pact to take "the curry secret" to there graves??
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A restaurant kitchen is walls, floor and ceiling with certain equipment, methods and ingredients. It must be perfectly possible to recreate it 100% at home.
You are right it is possible, but it will involve having an industrial cooker and cooking curry for 50 people a night over the course of a week ;D
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How did you make the curry Pete?
I got creative and made it in the oven with a casserole dish.
I have recently found, cooking this way, gives better results.
Thanks for the recipe, it's? agood one.
Like everyone else, I am frustrated at not being able to reproduce, the missing flavour.
But I do believe that the recipe is exactly what they do in the restaurants.
I have had a couple of curries without "the taste".
Both were bought on a Sunday.
One was from Bengal Cuisine
One was from "Indian Cottage" in Cornwall.
I reckon that was because the base had was fresh and not had added the oil from other cooked curries.
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Pete try leaving the base in the fridge for a couple of days and then make the vindaloo exactly has specified in my recipe and see if thats any different.
cK
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Curry King
I stand by my original comments. I doubt if I would find any restaurant chefs that will tell me how it's done. It's their secret and livelihood. You say "how come what I was shown was almost identical to what Pete was shown a year or so ago?" The gap in our understanding may be quite small, like the exact blend of garam masala, where any spice mix is possible. Yes, I think you have been lied to, in the nicest possible way. But it's like in Parliament, they're not allowed to use the word 'lie'.
You make a very good point about every single restaurant chef in the country being sworn to some pact to take "the curry secret" to there graves. This is the biggest mystery for me; why nobody has made money from a genuine Curry Secret book which really works, or from cooking lessons which enable us to produce curries identical to the best of a curry house.
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I can tell you now I wasn't lied to, for one the guy that showed me doesn't even work in an indian restaurant anymore he said he might go back to it one day when hes kids are older but why does he care if I know how to make up a similar curry to him at home?? Its not he's livelihood and im certainly not going to stop him earning money from it in the future!??
Another reason I know the bloke is genuine is why would he offer to come round my house and show me!? Why not just fob me of with some half baked gravy and vindaloo recipe and then go laughing to all his chef mates??? He gave up hes time to come round and show me, why?
why nobody has made money from a genuine Curry Secret book which really works, or from cooking lessons which enable us to produce curries identical to the best of a curry house.
As said before, you can't without actually setting up and running a full on indian restaurant out of your kitchen!!?
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I can tell you now I wasn't lied to, for one the guy that showed me doesn't even work in an indian restaurant anymore...
Curry King
I must say this does sound pretty genuine. You are very lucky to have such a contact. Perhaps, as others have suggested, these guys don't even know the 'secret' (if there is one) themselves! But one would hope that when he tasted the (presumably inadequate) curry which he made round your house, he would have expressed disappointment and, moreover, been able to pin point what went wrong. Or did his ex restaurant owner or head chef bring in a secret blend of spices so he never knew the full strory?
I would have expected the people down Brick Lane to have expressed disappointment as well, if it was 100% genuine - to have acknowledged that the end result lacked 'that taste' and to know and explain exactly why.
Your point about restaurant volumes might be right as well, but only if it is to do with re-using pints and pints of oil. This would indeed be hard to replicate at home. But if we can prove it's that, there might be a work around, to synthesise the effect of used oil skimmed off lots of different curries, e.g. a pinch each of various pastes and spices, a real hotch-potch.
Regards
George
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He didn't bring anything with him when he came round I told what I had and he said thats fine, as I said in my original post he even used my spice saying that'll do.? He didn't go into detail as to why we can't reproduce it at home but I'm gonna ask him next time I speak to him.?
The curry he made when he was round, as Ive said before the first taste wasn't there but I put this down to it just being made, second and third tastes definitely had a hint of "the taste".? I do think a lot of it is down to technique, he knew exactly what to put in from sight alone, he didn't measure anything, this to me rules out the fact that were a small amount out of anything.
Have you tried making the base and curry that I posted?
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Have you tried making the base and curry that I posted?
I made the base and used your recipe for a veg vindaloo today.
It looks great.
I have spiced out my taste buds so I'm eating it tonight
Thanks CK
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Thats the one looks fantastic :o
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Pete, Looking at your pics, I have to say "Madhur Jaffrey, eat your heart out" :) :)
Seriously, they absolutely look the business, well done. If you felt that they had the TASTE, then it would be game, set and match.
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Hey Curry King!!
They've named a place after you!!!
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Hi Pete,
Have been waiting to hear with baited breath whether the vegetable vindaloo tasted the biz? Please post and let us know.
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Have been waiting to hear with baited breath whether the vegetable vindaloo tasted the biz? Please post and let us know.
The veg vindaloo was very good.
It didn't have the taste though.
I made a veg vindaloo using a curry base (with salvaged oil from about eight curries) and I also added the chicken jelly.
That was the closest I have ever been.
Very very good.
I hated making it, but I will be doing the chicken jelly stock again.
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If I was going to open a curry house thats what I would call it :D
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I am still retrieving oil from my curries and now bottling it Pete. It does make a vast difference to the end product I think. Don't know about the chicken jelly though. We normally eat prawn curries so the taste is somewhat different to chicken. Oh, by the way, never heard back from Bengal, did you?
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? Oh, by the way, never heard back from Bengal, did you?
No I didn't.
I've been thinking.
Being as we both had the curry base made in front of us, and it missed the taste.
(Or did you feel that demo meal had the taste? Mine didn't)
It can't be anything to do with their cookers.
It must be a tecnique or ingredient.
Yes?
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You are right Pete, it must be an ingredient or technique! I have to say that I am convinced that re-using the oil gives that certain "aroma" in my kitchen. The combination of oils from loads of different curries made and mixed together.
I am pretty disgusted with the Bengal, they take your money and then don't care. Having said that my curries from there did not have the taste at all either, so, it's quite obvious to me that they were not in the same league as a good BIR!
I must see if I can get into another restaurant kitchen in the near future. How about you?
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I must see if I can get into another restaurant kitchen in the near future. How about you?
I have nowhere lined up.
If I could find a chef who would take a "bribe" it would be best.
If you pay for it, then you have a right to be shown, exactly what you want.
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Hey Ck
so many times this "doesn't work in small quantities" gets mentioned regarding curry gravy.
Normally most of us work in batches of about 10 onions.
Would you ever consider making a curry gravy with ,say 50.
(if you had a big enough cook pot?)
Do you think it would have the flavour?
I keep thinking of trying this.
You would have to cook using all four gas rings.
Would it be a waste of time?
Hmmmm??
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so many times this "doesn't work in small quantities" gets mentioned regarding curry gravy.
I remain sure this is a load of tosh...a white lie to avoid divulging their secret recipes.
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? ? ? ? ? so many times this "doesn't work in small quantities" gets mentioned regarding curry gravy.
I remain sure this is a load of tosh...a white lie to avoid divulging their secret recipes.
IThe trouble is , George, that there is only one way to prove that, and that's by making it
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I don't know about making a batch that big at home, I think you would have to make it in one huge pot as if you did 4 seperate pots and then mixed it together its just like making four normal gravy's and combing them?
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Im with george, Ive seen the pot my local uses to make their curry gravy and its about 4 times the size of mine when I make your 600ml oil base Pete, I cant imagine this difference would result in a different taste.
All of you who say you cant get the taste, Im now of the opinion thats its all in your heads ;D
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All of you who say you cant get the taste, Im now of the opinion thats its all in your heads ;D
I agree, everyone whos tasted my currys have said as good if not better than the restaurant. I am sceptical that they are that good but i'l go with the general opinion :D
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All of you who say you cant get the taste, Im now of the opinion thats its all in your heads ;D
I agree, everyone whos tasted my currys have said as good if not better than the restaurant. I am sceptical that they are that good but i'l go with the general opinion :D
It would be useful to all meet up and bring along our best efforts for a joint tasting session, against some benchmark samples of genuine take-away curries from a known, reliable source.
As for currys tasting better than the restaurant, we need to be careful. I'm pleased that my curries are held as better than a (curry house) restaurant by some friends. But this is because I'm trying to cook 'authentic' Indian fine-dining curries, not BIR style curries. So question one should be: "Is this curry in the same family as a BIR curry?" Mine would score very low. Then, if it is, is it up there with the best of BIR curries. We all know of good, bad and mediocre BIR's. But all their offerings are part of the same 'family' in my opinion.
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All of you who say you cant get the taste, Im now of the opinion thats its all in your heads? ;D
I would be the first to admit the search has driven me a bit crazy.
I mean, what kind of person roams the streets at night, asking for cooking lessons?
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I mean, what kind of person roams the streets at night, asking for cooking lessons?
A nutter ;D ;D ;D
But seriously, thanks for all the research you have done pete, without your input I would not be at the stage I am now in reproducing BIR curry
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But seriously, thanks for all the research you have done pete, without your input I would not be at the stage I am now in reproducing BIR curry
The same goes for me!
-Mary
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Hi ghanna,
Yeah it was lucky I kept hassling him for the recipes and he turned round and said I will come round and show you!!
There was no fenugreek leaves in the gravy and none in the vindaloo.
Another thing he didnt mention any measurments at all, it was a bit of this a lttle of that, also I missed out salt, he put put some in at the begining and more after it was blended. For the spices it was approx a heaped desert spoon of each execpt garam masala which was under half that. Oil was about 500ml and water as needed, 8 onions, 1 carrot, 1 tin of toms and 1 pepper. If anyone trys it please post back, ive just got another batch on the go.
yes i also made it to,actually going to have a curry with the base tonight but needing help as when i made a bhoona with that base the last time it was tasteless the curry.only thing i didnt put into my recipe was coconut,should that have made a difference?
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This thread is a bit of an oldie, I still use these recipes to this day though 8)