You are assuming the indian chefs know what it is they do that gives that taste, sounds odd but they may not know exactly why, just that by doing what they do it gives that tasteI think Mark has hit the nail squarely on the head.
If you were to eat BIR curry every day, say starting at 8 years old, you would surely be dead before you reached 40.
Folks, I strongly suggest to all of you that you cook the curry in advance, even freeze it and then ust microwave it when ready to eat it. That way you do away with the 'Ive just cooked it' feeling and when I did this the result was a 100% perfect restaurant curry with the missing taste.I totally agree with Mark.
I agree . ,but do you freeze the curry with the chicken/meat or cook and add to the reheated sauce ?I freeze the completed curry.
I freeze the completed curry.Me to, I am currently using Bruce Edwards base but I think petes 600ml oil one is the best, I would add a carrot, stick of celery and coriander stalks to it, Ive never tried chickpeas in a base but Id be tempted to give them a go as well.
The more and more I think about this the more I think if you cook a curry and serve it straight from the pan you will never be able to replicate the taste.I think you are right.
How come vegetarians did not notice the chicken flavor in their curries ?You make a good point. ?I should think that long-time vegetarians would be able to detect the taste of chicken.? It would be more noticeable to them than to someone who eats meat all the time.
I am 100% sure that you are not trying to give us false information, i can see from all your posts that you always trying to help , you are a curry addict exactly like me.
Pete you are an expert in this field and when you say some thing like this i am sure it is 100% true
The curry gravy pot look to me as a garbage pot.Would you still buy it though?
Now you've tried it Pete is it worth the extra hassle?Definitely yes.
It really adds something
Do you think the chefs who use chicken jelly are the same ones who let the sauce ferment outside the fridge? I'm starting to feel queasy....
Now i am off the restaurant curries after i knew that they don't eat the curries that they cook themselves from the gravy pot(garbage pot ),it is really awful and disgusting from them to do that to all of us.
GOD help me to resist the temptation of going back to eat this again .
Seriously though how bad can it be, these places must get checked by environmental health visitors etc.. I'm sure if something that bad was going on such a massive scale then someone would have spotted something over the years.
In this day and age of health and safety in kitchens it just wouldn't be worth their while decieving us with garbage . They'd be closed down in a minute .
I am very glad to hear that such restaurant exist .Hey Ghanna,
I wish that all the restaurants become like that.
ghanna
:-\ they've also told me the practise of putting chicken jelly in the pots is long out of date .The chicken jelly adds a deep rounded flavour.
Well thats my tuppence worth . shoot me down or ignore the post .
Keith
Ok I'm sorry to have questioned anything on this tight knit forum . I'll keep my posts to a minimum .Please input as much as you can.
Keith
Please remember a lot of people? are watching and reading what we wright .specially people from the press.Maybe I am being naive, but why do you think we are being watched?
ghanna
He mentioned that he had managed several outlets in the country and that all of them worked off a very simple recipe for the base sauce of onion, garlic, ginger and spices, and maybe the odd extra ingredient, but nothing very special.If the base is so simple, why can't we get it exact?
Is it feasible that perhaps the curry house has one pot of base for Meat Dishes and one pot for Vegetarian, this would then rubbish all the worries people are having.
Doesn't anyone have a firm idea what leads to 'that smell'? One certainly does not produce a smell anything like that when making traditional (English) chicken soup, also by boiling a chicken.I believe that smell to be the meat and chicken being cooked for later use.
Regards
George
Doesn't anyone have a firm idea what leads to 'that smell'? One certainly does not produce a smell anything like that when making traditional (English) chicken soup, also by boiling a chicken.I believe that smell to be the meat and chicken being cooked for later use.
Regards
George
My best friend is a very commited vegetarian, and he loves his curry. So when I mentioned this to him he was very worried.
So he called up his local take-away which he uses every week and asked to speak to the manager
The manager told him they would never use chicken stock or any meat product
This is why I keep repeating that someone needs to see the whole of the base sauce preparation.
As far as im concerned ive seen a base made through from start to finish there was no chicken stock invloved
No one,except Bruce Edwards (curry house cookery extracts) has seen it.
The trouble is that it takes so long.
You will have to be there for 3-4 hours
I don't believe anyone has seen the whole base sauce preparation actually done in a real restaurant. But if anyone has please speak up!
For them to show anyone in a set up demo, the actual ingredients for the base which they use for the customers - they'ed have to be bonkers.?
One demo I went to used oil from the deep pan fryer.And onion bhajis, and samosas, and puri, and pakoras... those would all add flavor to it.? And that oil flavor would be hard to reproduce without making all those things at home.?
I had just seen that used for frying peppers and onions, but I am sure it must be used for the poppadoms and chips too.
AsafoetidaOoh, I hate that smell!? I had to put the container inside another tightly-sealed jar -- otherwise I can always smell it. There's a reason it's nicknamed "devil's dung."
Hi, George - What does it smell like ? I want your opinion please.
Hi, George - What does it smell like ? I want your opinion please.
You may have noticed that my poppadoms curl really badly out of shape.
Hope do you get them nice and flat?
It is the smell of TARKA DAL cooking
They start cooking it when they arrive at 4:00 pm
Of course every one know what TARKA DAL consist of
Hi
It is the smell of TARKA? DAL? ?cooking
They start cooking it when they arrive at 4:00 pm
Of course every one know what? TARKA? DAL? consist of
Thanks
ghanna
[I make this quite a lot and it is very good.
People say my kitchen sometimes smells like a restaurant.
Add enough chopped garlic (which was blue) to cover the base of the pan
Hi Pete,It's about three cloves of garlic finely chopped.
When you say enough garlic to cover the bottom of the pan, what size pan would you use ?
Thanx in anticipation of your answer,
Blondie
[I make this quite a lot and it is very good.
People say my kitchen sometimes smells like a restaurant.
Pete, is it like restaurant tarka dhall? This is one dish that I make quite often at home but have never had at a restaurant, can you or anyone else describe the consistency, colour etc. of the restaurant tarka dhall please, so that I can see if mine are anywhere near?
Yes, it's odd isn't it?Add enough chopped garlic (which was blue) to cover the base of the panBlue garlic - what!? ? ?:o
together with your Korma recipe
together with your Korma recipe
Where bouts is this ? Any chance of posting it in the recipe group?
I am not meaning to sound clever and I know it isn't perfect, but, there is a search facility at the top of the page which allow us to search for any particular name or phrase within the site, I hope this helps,
Hi , PeteYes I made them.
I like your pappadom mountain.
They look? wider than the variety that i? buy from the shops
Their colour as well is a little bit browner.
Do you make them yourself.?
Do you like the plain pappadoum or the spicy variety.
I like the black pepper variety.
Thanks
ghanna
I wonder what is there in the red sauce.
In my local takeaway they have a pot of red sauce that looks like tandoori marinade...precooked onions may hold a key to the smell and taste that we've been searching for...it seems that we could just be overlooking the obvious, since this is only the main part of the preperation they need to do before they open and it is the used in most curry's...there by you'll be getting the smell all night long
Curry King - I fear this forum is starting to become too successful for its own good! Locating past nuggets of information is inevetably becoming quite a task. The korma recipe is somewhere in a posting earlier this month. I don't know what the answer is to forum management. The main headings are clear and logical but we often drift a bit off-topic in our enthusiasm for individual topics of conversation.
Ive tried the search but no luck?
In my local takeaway the have a pot of red sauce that looks like tandoori
I don't know what the red sauce is, but i've seen them add it to most dishes, it could just be tomato and yoghurt and paprika??? ( I just dont know )
Do you mean that they add tarka ?to every kind of curry.
Do they have a large pot of trhe infamous yellow-ish curry base sauce at your take-away, as well? And is a dollop of that used in nearly all curries, too? How much 'red sauce' is used in each dish, roughly, would you say?
I don't know what the red sauce is, but i've seen them add it to most dishes, it could just be tomato and yoghurt and paprika???On another forum, someone used canned tomato soup and sour cream in an emergency when making a curry, and said it turned out like his favorite restaurant's CTM .? (I laughed because the absolute worst curry I ever had was at a BIR that, I swear, used tomato soup and not much else.)? But then someone from Bombay Curry Company and the Delhi Club, two restaurants in Virginia, responded:? ?Perhaps canned tomato soup and sour cream is exactly what your fav restaurant is using.? jokes aside, a lot of Indian restaurants do use sour cream as it is cheaper than heavy cream and also adds extra bulk and sourness ( which the tomatoes may sometimes be lacking) and what exactly is tomato soup, cooked and pureed tomatoes! where the origional seasoning is so subtle that it easily gets masked by the ginger garlic and all those spices you will use for butter chicken.?
Do they have a large pot of trhe infamous yellow-ish curry base sauce at your take-away, as well? And is a dollop of that used in nearly all curries, too? How much 'red sauce' is used in each dish, roughly, would you say?
Yes they have the large pot of the yellow-ish curry base at the back of there cooker.
Heres just a breif example of a madras: Heat dry pan on high heat for 30sec then add oil and spices and pre-cooked onions and stir for 30sec, then goes in the chicken and it's all tossed together and stirred then the gravy goes in and about half tbsp of Red sauce and some ground almonds and lemon juice from a bottle, then this will simmer for few minutes and a sprinkle of menthi is stirred in. when it's taken from heat it's poored into a tray and sprinkled with fresh coriander and lid is put on.
Hi ,AllI'm not sure the red sauce was tomato soup! but all i was saying was thats how the takeaway made a madras that i watched them cook!
Pete posted a curry gravy that uses canned tomato soup before .
He said it was published in one of the magazines.
For a chicken tikka masala or korma or pasanda or dhansak it is more than fine .
But not for vindaloo,madras,phall,...........etc.
This is my experience after trying it.
Thanks
ghanna
I must confess the recipe I sell on ebay (CTM) contains both tomato ketchup and tomato soup and judging by the feedback I get people are stunned by the results they get with it.I agree with you mark J, i've seen it used in very good takeaways and also tried it myself during cooking, it does not take from the dish, it adds to it! and since you only add a very small amount it wont ruin anything, i suggest that the next time anybody makes a curry that they give a squirt of ketchup to the dish, were not talking keeping it squeezed till the bottle gives up it's guts, all thats needed is just a little squirt (prob about 1tsp). I wouldn't add it to a korma or a standard curry or vindaloo though, but to richer dishes like madras and rogan josh and passada and the like.
Ketchup contains a number of things that could improve a curry: salt, sugar, tomatos and probably MSG ;D
I have noticed this taste from one takeaway near me and I wasn't sure if it was a flavour somehow transfered from the Tandoor or from Black or Brown Cardamoms which have a very smokey smell and taste to them.
....Is it some primal urge? ;D :P LOL
...It got me thinking, I'm a lover of Darth's base, which does use typical stew ingredients (excepting turnip/swede/parsnip) and now I'm wondering if that's the missing sweetness I could be searching for...
To my mind, there is no question of what the "taste" and the "smell" of a good (albeit from days of old) BIR curry are.
I would love to find this missing taste, sort of hot and sour, that I used to get in vindaloo, and I've been trying to do it for all these years.There is only one place I know that still does old style curries
But Guys! I said I believe (know) it IS obtainable at home! ;D ;)
I'm sure a lot of the curry's I do make are of a restaurant quality but it's convincing myself that it is :-\Thats the trouble. Other people always give my curry's the thumbs up but i'm never satisfied with the results myself.
Curry King, do you have the recipe for the lamb bhuna you made using Admins new base? I am going to try and make it this afternoon. Do you think this is the best curry you have made to date?
Thanks CK.
Until now no one managed to get that very nice missing taste.
This missing taste is driving me crazy, i want to duplicate it but i cannot, i tried every thing but without luck.
Some one out there definitely knows, please tell us all and save us from our misery.
Me my self i am willing to pay for it if it comes to that.
I tried for ages but i feel i am stuck there,no improvement at all, all the time we are going back to square one.
There are 7000 restaurants and takeaways her in the U.K and all of the chefs there produce this taste daily in their curries, cookbooks writer and others as well know. if any one reading or following what we say her ,please help.
I really feel that without help from these professional people we are not going to go any further.
Thanks
ghanna
You say the ingredients in the restaurant base are the usuals, but what about the colour, consistency, spicing, ingredient balance...
How would you describe the "best flavour"?
it's a real good question isn't it.
i'd love to get a bought base to compare against - my comparisons are against the finished dish.
The base cannot be replicated scaled down
I've tried a 20 onion versionQuoteThe base cannot be replicated scaled downI've heard this before first hand. How big are their pots? I know there was a 30-onion recipe here for a base.
I've also seen some of the old curry gravy going into the new curry gravy
Seriously, if you compare a bought curry base to what you make at home, it is not the same.
based on this fact then we clearly need to work on the base as we clearly have no chance producing the curry taste.
Haldi - have u tried the CRO2 development base - it has only onion as veg and the results are amazingly good given it's simplicity
I've just spent the afternoon trying to match a bought curry base sample
I can't do it
The best flavour simply isn't there
To add to my frustration I made a curry, using a bought restaurants curry gravy.
You know what?
It was 100% perfect
If I could make the gravy then I could make the curry
Yes, I have made several times 100% copies of BIR curries, but only when I use a bought curry base
Seriously, if you compare a bought curry base to what you make at home, it is not the same.The "secret" is the gravy
Hey Haldi, you've motivated me to try and buy some base from my local. Do you find the bases from all your locals taste similar or are they all just good in different ways?
Cheers, BB.
Also, have you ever tried adding mooli? I just ask because you said the missing taste was vegetablish.
Cheers, BB.
There are a number of "demo" base recipes on this site. Saffron, Rajver, etc etc.The bases on this site are as good as you can get, without doing something extreme to duplicate BIR kitchens
Assuming the statement above is true - "the secret is in the base" - then why do these recipes not do the trick?
Is it an issue of scale? Chef's "forgetting" a key ingredient? These are crap BIRs?
-- Josh
Is it an issue of scale? Chef's "forgetting" a key ingredient? These are crap BIRs?
For Haldi to say that using the base sample, the curry was 100%, is a huge statement.
-- Josh
Now THATS what I call "spot on" !
Listen to this man, the "secret" is in the base! It is where the essence of the BIR taste and aroma is developed. THIS is where "the magic happens". The final cooking process is simply a tweak that produces the variations. Without a replica BIR base you're f&*ked! That is if REALLY replicating a BIR curry is your aim :P
extra unidentifiable tastedo for your taste buds.
Thanks Tamala
I hev narrowed my search to this single area
You get that she's being a bitch right? :-\
it's getting more intriguing this post.
Haldi can we put u on the spot - appreciating it's difficult but can u try to explain how the BIR base differs from those on the site. i guess what does thisQuoteextra unidentifiable tastedo for your taste buds.
on a specific for me (having not tasted a BIR base - and i will try to) i'm not sure if this extra taste is in the base or the oil (of the finished curry) and would appreciate your thoughts specifically on this.
can that minor difference in the taste of the base really account for all those amazing missing flavors in the final curries? surely its the spicing which is what we are not grasping correctly yet? and technique to some extent.
Does anyone know a BIR manager well enough to get an invite? I believe the only way we can get to the bottom of this is to spend time in a BIR Kitchen.I know people, but they speak very limited English, so to learn anything you really have to see it
Haldi, have you ever tried Jaspers Munich base ? I got really really good results from thatI've not tried the "Jasper" base yet and I do wonder about asafoetida.
In terms of that 0.5% missing taste - my head says Paprika, Ajowan, beef stock and Asafoetida (poppadom ingredient) in the correct quantities. Quite what those quantities are eludes me.
the bir base was mild spiced and fairly bland. a bit more of a taste of chicken than safron. and slightly more sour. but not that differenti think stock may be used by some but i am pretty sure taste wise it's not in the curries that i like. stock is very important in cooking but not for me in curry. i tried currytesters base which involves boiling a carcass - it was too strong and going away from the BIR taste i've been brought up on.
along with bassar spice mix and kashmiri mirch
they put a chefs spoon of white powder on top
Haldi eludes the curry men just bung ingredients in and leave it fiercely bubbling away now how many can honestly say they do? I bet most chefs cant resist stirring and generally interfering in the cooking process...I am guilty
I know how you feel Booby...round and round we go again.
We've been down this road but perhaps we all throw in ?100 each and find a Takeaway that is willing to open its doors and be filmed.
Stew
Hi,
just a quickie i am wondering although wen we cook we fry our spices but has anyone tried infusing the oil with certain spices for a period before they actually use it i say this because a lot of you go on about reclaimed oil bhagi flavoured oil etc
just a thought
billycat :-\
I am sold on the oil thing though. Think of all the lovely flavours in the fryer oil. Pakora, Bhajis, Popadums and lots more.Hi Bobby
I've been back to my local quality old school BIR tonight and guess what? I'm depressed again.
It just has flavours in it that I don't have. There are things in this curry that aren't in mine.
I don't really think we're that close to quality old school BIR atall...
I am sold on the oil thing though. Think of all the lovely flavours in the fryer oil. Pakora, Bhajis, Popadums and lots more.Hi Bobby
The fryer oil is used for cooking the curry with
It's oil from cooking the poppadoms that goes into the curry gravy
Either way, it's all in the curries
Haldi I think it's unlikely to be the poppadom oil that will make the difference. But I definitely think the oil from a whole night's cooking of bhajis, pakoras etc. would provide a big boost to the base sauce. Is that what you did or did you just use the poppadom oil?I used the poppadom oil in mine because I saw a takeaway do the same
Haldi have you posted this gravy recipe? if not can you if you have please drop a link in.Hi TGReaper
On the depression front it's more often than not better to travel than to arrive? at the mo I'm enjoying the journey and very happy with my results so far.
i bet this is the old fryer oil - to think of putting it in a base is complete madness for me.
i just don't like chick peas and would never use them myself.
the last remaining jigsaw pieces look a bit too well hidden.
As for paying money to bridge the gap ?
i'm happy to take back the comments on Haldi's base - i just don't like chick peas and would never use them myself...on the oil business - just go to your deep fryer and have a look and decide for yourself...the oil is definitely the key - we just need to explore it a bit
We could get a paypal link that we all could donate to. We could then bribe / pay some BIR chef into one of our homes i would be willing to donate. What are your thourghts?
My curries are just 'nice' - most edible, but the similarity to the elusive BIR aroma eludes me!Yes, I know what you mean
Without much delay, he seem to fold all the ingredients into a small pile in the middle of the pan.
He turned the gas up high and let this mixture sit there for a couple of minutes.
Very near the end of this time, there was the amazing BIR aroma
Perhaps it is slightly burning?
Very near the end of this time, there was the amazing BIR aroma
Perhaps it is slightly burning?
Well after that, he added the curry gravy & precooked chicken and the recipe went much the way of all curry recipes
But do you think this "singeing" of ingredients could be it?
But I was watching very intently to see any missed "trick"
Chef added a little oil to a pan and turned the heat to medium
Then he added about a desertspoon of garlic ginger
He spread this round the pan and fried for a couple of minutes
Then he added a small handfull of mixed onion and green pepper
He quickly added about one and a half desertspoons of spice mix and a similar amount of tomato puree.
Without much delay, he seem to fold all the ingredients into a small pile in the middle of the pan.
He turned the gas up high and let this mixture sit there for a couple of minutes.
Very near the end of this time, there was the amazing BIR aroma
Perhaps it is slightly burning?
ANYONE UP TO PUTTING THE QUESTION TO A TOP NOTCH BIR HEAD CHEF?
JUST THINKING A LITTLE MORE ABOUT THIS INTRIGUING "SINGEING" IDEA - IS THIS THE SAME AS THE TOFFEE/CHOKING SMELL FROM THE SPICES OR SOMETHING DIFFERENT.NO IT'S NOT THE SAME, IT'S A REALLY APPETISING SMELL
Haldi I think it's unlikely to be the poppadom oil that will make the difference. But I definitely think the oil from a whole night's cooking of bhajis, pakoras etc. would provide a big boost to the base sauce. Is that what you did or did you just use the poppadom oil?I used the poppadom oil in mine because I saw a takeaway do the same
They cooked their poppadoms in a giant wok with two small handles on.
It didn't really add anything noticable to my base
I wouldn't bother doing it again.
What we are missing is the correct recipe
Something is wrong
Either cooking times or ingredients.
What inspired me to make a full sized base was the amazing curries I made with bought bases from a couple of takeaways.
Honestly, the aroma was incredible and the result 100 percent accurate.
My base still fell short of that standard.
At three places I know they present a curry that is little more than heated gravy
And it's fantastic
I do have two other full size base recipes which I saw nearly almost the whole process.
So do I try to refine my recent attempt or completely start afresh?
In the meantime I'm afraid that the majority of this base is heading down the drain
The freezer is almost full (a lot of it is curry too!)Haldi have you posted this gravy recipe? if not can you if you have please drop a link in.Hi TGReaper
I promise to post when I get it right
If I was to recommend a base recipe, I would say the new Bruce Edward's.
It gives the best aroma and contains most of the ingredients I used
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2815.0
He sounded very surprised by my base and the way i was doing it, he said you've got all that right.You know, I really hope you can get some more details
When I said about the final stage and burning of spices he added the same as some posts above, add a little Ginger and Garlic and he says they add water to stop the burning and leave for a few minutes Excited....
I also convinced it's not the baseI am open to any ideas,but don't underestimate how nice the base is
the cumin's the thing i don't like overpowering the rest.
it's a good point to try reducing the cumin (the generally accepted ratio being 2:1 coriander : cumin although i feel happier around 3 or even 4).
was their anything key in there for u that u feel we need to be aware of.I wish someone on this site could do a video like this, I've tried loads, and failed so far.
One point, can someone tell me why my post about the videos on the other site was removed, I don't understand why that would have been done ??? ???
does anyone on this site have the full gas cooker hob setup, with big orange flames etc etc? i thought i read that someone went the whole hog, and bought one?Yes I bought a restaurant gas hob
After eating a takeaway or restaurant curry, my hands always have a BBQ smokey smell. When reproducing curries at home, they never seem to have this smell.
Has anyone else managed to reproduce this smokey smell and taste in the curry? Any ideas what could be causing it, or whether it could be linked to the missing taste? I don't think it can be from the meat being cooked in the tandoor, as from what I can gather in the forum, the meat isn't usually cooked this way except for Tandoori chicken, etc. Could it be a missing ingredient such as BBQ sauce, which seems to have a smokey smell and taste?