Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: pete on April 06, 2005, 05:31 PM
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This is the chicken jelly recipe
Here is what you do:-
Get a full skinned chicken (or the whole chickens bones and a little meat like wings)
Then add 2 black cardomons
8 green cardomons,
8 bayleaves
2 long cinnamon sticks,
1 teaspoon peppercorns
1 teaspoon salt
and 2 tablespoons of vegetable oil.
Put in enough water to half cover the chicken (which was skinned).
I warn you , it really doesn't smell nice.
I thought it would be unusable because of it's smell.
I cooked it on very low for about four hours.
The meat takes on a string like quality.
Then I strained it and left it to cool.
The jelly that you get on top is what you use.
It is surprisingly very un spicy.
Almost like chicken crisps with a hint of bay leaves.
I added this to my curry gravy and boiled for another ten minutes to dissolve.
It works out about half a tablespoon per curry portion.
The jelly keeps three days in a fridge or could be frozen
Most of my curries are veggy so the addition of this stock made a massive difference
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In the morning there is a thick jelly on top.
I await a report on this, although I really think this is not correct.
Next we'lll be adding Jellied eels >:(
What will solidify?
S
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What a load of tripe :D
Seriously though if this is really added in to the gravy how can they sell a vegetarian curry?
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Meat
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What a load of tripe :D
Seriously though if this is really added in to the gravy how can they sell a vegetarian curry?
We need to ask some chefs.
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If this is right it wouldn't be so strange.
A few people have suggested the addition of chicken stock and it's common practice in indian traditional cooking, to cook chicken on the bone.
It would be very cheap to make
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Yeah I'm sure that nothing goes to waste in the restaurant so its definitely a possibility, just seems a bit eek :o
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Yeah I'm sure that nothing goes to waste in the restaurant so its definitely a possibility, just seems a bit eek :o
Yes you are right.
I'll double eek that!
I'll give a go at the weekend.
To tell the truth, I don't much like working with raw meat.
But in search of? "the taste" I will
I've got to know
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I'm skeptical about this one. I don't think the savoriness of chicken stock tastes anything like the "missing taste". I'm not denying that some restaurants use it, I just doubt its the missing link.
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pete
when i was being taught to use the tandoor in the evening in the restaurant . the chefs were doing exactly this boiling down the bones and creating a stock. they eat the chicken that came off the bones in a curry.
They said they were making the stock for the next day.
I didn't think too much about it at the time but this makes sense otherwise why else would they do it.
I have some base curry in my freezer and it does smell of chicken but i have not been able to work out the flavour.
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Would this flavour not be easily obtainable form stock cubes .A lot less prone to bacteria :-\
Worth a try i know but not too sure .will be interested to hear how you get on though Pete
Keith
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I concur with Dylan's comments...the chicken stock would not impart a a dramatic change in taste but rather give the gravy a little more body .
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This sounds like a very common practice for making chicken stock, e.g. for western cooking, albeit with different herbs and spices. I also expect that 'fine dining' (proper) Indian restaurants would use chicken stock when making certain 'up-market' curries but I'm surprised to hear that curry houses would add chicken stock to a base sauce which would be used to make 'vegetarian' dishes, not that I have much time for vegetarian attitudes.
'Proper' chicken stock has an infinitely better flavour to stock cubes. The latter might give an idea of potential, but I'd stick with the real thing if that's how some curry houses might do it.
Overall, it wouldn't surprise me if this is one of the 'secrets'.
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the chefs were doing exactly this boiling down the bones and creating a stock. they eat the chicken that came off the bones in a curry.
They said they were making the stock for the next day.
Maybe I'm on the right track then.
I will post results
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Just a thought! I remembered in one of Pat Chapman's books a stock recipe called "Akhni Stock". Here are the ingredients:-
3 pints water
2 spanish onions peeled and chopped
1 teaspoon garlic puree
1 teaspoon ginger puree
1 tablespoon ghee
2 teaspoons salt
spices whole
10 cloves
10 green cardamoms
6 pieces cassia bark
6 bay leaves
Put all in water, bring to boil and then simmer for 1 hour, by this time stock shuld have reduced by half. Strain and discard the solids. If you like, use 8oz meat off-cuts and bones when simmering for 1 hour.
Make what you want of that! I'm scepticle, but, who knows!!
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Hi Curryqueen,
I looked into this Akhni stock before but never used it after asking at my local takeaway and they told me that they had not heard of it and didn't use a stock other than the base sauce, but having said that they have been very unhelpful (except for the owner) all along.
Cheers,
Blondie
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hi,Pete
thank you
i am going to try it.
thanks
ghanna
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Just a thought!? I remembered in one of Pat Chapman's books a stock recipe called "Akhni Stock".?
What did Pat Chapman use it for?? Did he put it in a base sauce??
If chicken "jelly" is the answer, it certainly would compromise vegetarian curries.? That could explain why chefs won't confess doing it.?
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What did Pat Chapman use it for? Did he put it in a base sauce?
He said it could be used instead of curry gravy
Pat saw a lot of things, but I don't think he understood what was going on, before he wrote about it.
Regarding "the taste"
I know some people, who I made curries for, and they think they are exactly the same as a takeaway.
They are not.
These people cannot recognise "the taste"
I wondered if Pat might be one of these people.
I think he genuinely believes he has informed everyone correctly
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With great respect Pete, I almost hope this is not going to work? :) :) :)
Although i'm not a veggie, I can't stand handling meat(as you also said recently). I don't even like its presence around me in the kitchen. One of the great attractions of the restaurant style curry made at home, is how the whole process is meatless until the very end, and if you use chicken breasts all the time, its bearly like handling real meat at all.
However, if it gives us the taste, i'll be doing it.
Keep up the good work.
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hi,Pete
yesterday i made the chicken jelly kept it refrigerated, skimmed the chicken fat from the top.
i used only the chicken jelly in the curry gravy, it added specail kind of taste and richness to the gravy.
it mellowed the onion taste a bit,the dominate flavor was the chicken flavor.
sorry Pete i couldnot taste that missing taste that all of us are after...
i am going to carry on using your curry gravy (600ml oil ) really and honestly it is one of the best.
Pete do you think that we will ever discover how to produce that very nice taste ?
my hope is fading.
thanks
ghanna
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I made the chicken jelly stock and waited for it to be cold and set.
The smell was not particularly nice but reminded me a little of chicken flavoured crisps.
It was surprisingly very "un spicy"
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So you really think this is it Pete?
bad news for vegetarian curry lovers everywhere! :-[
The last couple of curries I have made (and the one that had the taste) both used vegetable stock to dilute the thick curry gravy, and funnily enough I have just this morning bought chicken stock cubes ready to add my curry gravy for tonights curry!
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So you really think this is it Pete?
bad news for vegetarian curry lovers everywhere! :-[
I really hope it is.
Short of the different cooker theories, and salvaging the oil, I can think of nothing else.
Here's a picture anyhow.
And I will carefully check my new curry gravy against the bought one.
Did anyone else manage to buy any restaurant curry gravy?
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I worked as a chef for a while (not in an Indian, I'm afraid). There used to be a massive vat of stock simmering all the time. It would go in all the sauces and soups we made. At the beginning of the week we'd have a huge delivery of bones and "chicken frames" from the butcher. We'd boil them up with vegetable trimmings. The whole thing was left simmering, even over night.
Few other tips on stock:
If the thought of boiling up carcases repulses you, you can now buy ready made "proper" stock at most supermarkets. I've never tried it though, so I can't vouch for its flavor.
If you roast the bones/meat first before simmering, you can avoid the worst of the smell (it also makes a more intensely savory stock as the bones caramelize).
Once a stock has come to the boil, just simmer on the gentlest of heats - this keeps it clearer.
Only use stock cubes as a last resort. Their usually comprised of fat salt and MSG
Stock freezes well so you can make a large amount, and freeze in batches.
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I have now compared the bought curry gravy with what I made.
This is getting so close to judge now.
It gives a very similar after taste.
Very very similar.
I still think the bought one is a little better.
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Only use stock cubes as a last resort. Their usually comprised of fat salt and MSG
I have to say the MSG content is one of the reasons why I use a stock cube :)
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If we all decide that this is the secret of the TASTE, I thnk we all had better be carefull what we say regarding all BIR's using this method.? It could have very serious consequences, maybe even reaching newspapers etc.
For example, my sister has been veggie for about 10 years, but often eats BIR? food, always prawn, veg or dall. I know she would be furious to discover her curry had been made from stock using boiled meat bones.
Just a thought folks ...........
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I made four curries tonight using the curry base+chicken jelly.
Sag bhajee, prawn balti, veg vindaloo and veg madras.
Everyone said they were the best I had ever made.
I thought so too.
I am very pleased, but don't I like the thought of the jelly.
I compared my sauce again to a bought one.
A couple of slight differences still.
The bought one is a little sweeter and has a fragrance of "popadoms".
Maybe they use the same source of oil for frying poppadoms too?
If we all decide that this is the secret of the TASTE, I thnk we all had better be carefull what we say regarding all BIR's using this method.? It could have very serious consequences, maybe even reaching newspapers etc.
I agree with Joe.
I wouldn't want this to affect the takeaways we all love.
That really would be counter productive.
Maybe I was told wrong, but my results are very good.
Someone else give it a go and see what you think.
I used the 600ml oil curry gravy (with the emphasis on browning the garlic ginger.)
I had about a pint of gravy and added two heaped tablespoons of the jelly.
I reboiled for ten minutes and used it.
The recipe for the jelly is seven posts up
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Everyone said they were the best I had ever made.
Did it have the "taste" ? Im tempted to try it but im not sure about putting that jelly into my nice fresh pot of gravy.
I do think my currys now have that taste just I can't taste it :-\
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If we all decide that this is the secret of the TASTE, I thnk we all had better be carefull what we say regarding all BIR's using this method. It could have very serious consequences, maybe even reaching newspapers etc.
It's quite a thought. This forum and our friend attributed with first reporting the chicken stock approach could become quite publicised. Trading Standards and their health people might insist on a change of approach in almost every BIR. Say two large pots in future - one for vegetable dishes and one for everything else. Either that, or there could be a dramatic drop in demand if a lot of vegetarians started staying away from BIRs.
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Did it have the "taste" ? Im tempted to try it but im not sure about putting that jelly into my nice fresh pot of gravy.
I do think my currys now have that taste just I can't taste it :-\
I want someone else's opinion.
There is definitely the taste in it.
From three sources we have concluded that the restaurants are certainly making a stock.
I still felt that the curry sauce I bought was a little better.
That really bugs me.
But I consider the use of the stock as the first major step forward for about? six months.
It beats the Bengal Cuisine "help"
I still think the answer to making restaurant curry lies in the base.
If you've got that right, to make a vindaloo, all you would need is precooked ingredients and chilli powder.
You may have "the taste" in your curries because you are cooking with chicken anyhow.
Ironically, the meal I dream to make is a vegetable vindaloo.
The reason why my results have left me disappointed could well be that I never included chicken as an ingredient.
I think one serious problem, when we are lucky enough to talk to chefs, is getting them to understand what we want.
I don't think they would have a clue what we mean by "the taste"
Certainly, when I got this stock recipe, the chef didn't understand the word "stock".
He called it soup.
That's why seeing these things done are so important.
I wish I could figure out a way to see the base done at a restaurant.
You have to be there for hours and you are really in the way.
The kitchens I have been in are really cramped.
If there is a missing ingredient it is something very simple.
Something accidentally forgotten.
I don't believe it is hidden.
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Dear Pete
I am very pleased that you at last produced that taste that you were after for long time.
Congratulations Pete
I am really happy for you.
Thanks
ghanna
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Dear Pete
I am very pleased that you at last produced that taste that you were after for long time.
Congratulations Pete
I am really happy for you.
Thanks Ghanna, but I'm not quite there yet.
I want it closer.
If I can, exact
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Do you ever have it where something that happened a while ago suddenly becomes clear?
I did? a post from a demo.
I was shown how to make a veg madras
I was told that one of the ingredients was "balti paste"
Well I thought it looked pretty funny stuff.
Not at all like any of the pastes I know.
Sort of organic?
I realise what it was now.
It was the chicken jelly.
I am sure.
Here is the recipe again.
Substitute chicken jelly for balti paste.
I was shown how to cook a Vegetable Madras
I am not joking, it was absolutely delicious.
Ingredients: -
A couple of large spoons of oil taken from the top of curry gravy
2 teaspoons of chopped onion and green pepper
(I think it was fresh, although it could have been pre fried)
1 teaspoon of salt, dried fenugreek and balti paste
1 teaspoon chilli powder
3 teaspoon of the spice mix
2 large ladles of curry gravy
2 very large spoons of pre-cooked veg which included carrots, cabbage, brocolli and peas
A couple of chopped bits of pre cooked potatoes (almost a grey colour, not yellow)
Chopped fresh coriander
The gas ring was on maximum
Heat the oil from the curry gravy and add the onion and pepper.
Fry for a minute
Add the salt, dried fenugreek, balti paste and stir a little, mixing in (thirty seconds)
Add the chilli powder and spice mix and stir this in as well for about a minute.
Then add a quarter of the curry gravy.
As the pan dries, add the same amount again.
Then add the pre-cooked vegetables and stir
After a minute add the potatoes and the rest of the curry gravy.
Bring the whole lot to a rapid boil.
The oil is on top of the curry and bubbles like mad.
Stir occasionally and after about four minutes add the fresh coriander mixing in.
Turn off the gas and leave a minute
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Hi, Pete
I like the new modifications.
Are you sure that the balti paste was in fact chicken jelly.
I am only saying that because balti paste colour is red.
Thanks
ghanna
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Are you sure that the balti paste was in fact? chicken jelly.
I am only saying that because balti paste colour is red.
Thanks
ghanna
The stuff they used was not red.
It was a dull colour.
It did have a jelly like appearance, but I was a bit in awe of everything else I was being shown.
I didn't pay close enough attention to that detail.
Maybe they make their stock without turmeric.
The cooked potatoes they used were a dull colour too.
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Pataks balti paste is a ruddy orangey brown, not at all like other pastes and quite smooth, sure it wasnt this?
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Pataks balti paste is a ruddy orangey brown, not at all like other pastes and quite smooth, sure it wasnt this?
I bought the Pataks paste and it is nothing like it
I searched my local Asian Supermarkets and I can't find anything that looks like the restaurant had
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This link is very like the chicken jelly I made
http://www.daawat.com/recipes/indian/soups/spicycsoup.htm
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This link is very like the chicken jelly I made
http://www.daawat.com/recipes/indian/soups/spicycsoup.htm
Hi all, I am new here, Pete did you get any further with getting closer to bir ?
I believe part of the taste is in the special oil, which is oil that is used to cook onion bhaji ?
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I fear he may not remember, Alan; this all took place around twelve years ago ...
** Phil.
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I fear he may not remember, Alan; this all took place around twelve years ago ...
** Phil.
Hi Phil, pardon my inability to scour the whole of this forum within a few hours ;) if I could be pointed towards updates of getting closer to BIR, I would greatly appreciate it :) I have read many posts on here today and feel very puzzled and lost at where the direction (over the last decade) has gone. I love cooking curry and would like to learn as much as I can and also share the knowledge I have also picked up on the way.
Many thanks
Alan
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Hi Alan,
If you go to the first page of a topic it shows when it was posted, if you click on the OP it will bring up their profile and when they were last active. Hope this helps.
Regards,
London.
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Hi Alan,
If you go to the first page of a topic it shows when it was posted, if you click on the OP it will bring up their profile and when they were last active. Hope this helps.
Regards,
London.
[/quote
Thanks London.
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This link is very like the chicken jelly I made
http://www.daawat.com/recipes/indian/soups/spicycsoup.htm
Hi all, I am new here, Pete did you get any further with getting closer to bir ?
I believe part of the taste is in the special oil, which is oil that is used to cook onion bhaji ?
Specifically I seem to recall that the oil Pete's takeaway used in their curries was old bhaji and chip frying oil (and maybe poppadoms too?). I don't think using it at the frying stage is very useful as it tends to lose its potency so it should be added right at the end of cooking as a spiced oil as you probably know many restaurants do.
At least that's my memory of what Pete (Haldi) was promoting and I do agree with him that it's a crucial part of the BIR flavour but, for me anyway, not the whole thing. And then there's the garlic tarka first introduced here by JB I think. Many forum members, myself included, think this is another few percentage points toward the final BIR taste.
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Yes, it was me that posted this
The info came from a man I worked with
He used help at a takeaway in the 90's, in Nottingham
They used to make a chicken jelly stock, which went in all curries, because it was in the gravy
They also used "thyme" in the base too (different but a bit similar to ajwain seeds, I guess)
Since posting this I have been in loads of takeaway/restaurant kitchens and I have never seen this done
It's old school
It used to be commonplace to boil a chicken carcass in the base too
Julian Voight even wrote up a recipe in one of his Secrets books
I shouldn't think it's done now though
People like Mick Crawford have pretty much shown everything that goes on
Julian and Adey Payne, Alex Wilkie too
And of course there is a wealth of info on this site
It can be overwhelming and most threads seems to wander
I don't think you can really achieve 100% at home
Close but somehow not quite right
Best thing is to follow one set of posts and recipes
The Fleet Five were good ones
Check them out on this site
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In the morning there is a thick jelly on top.
I await a report on this, although I really think this is not correct.
Next we'lll be adding Jellied eels >:(
What will solidify?
S
Mmmmmm jellied eels!
Takes me back to boyhood in Bermondsey....jellied eels followed by a glass of Sasparilla.
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In the morning there is a thick jelly on top.
I await a report on this, although I really think this is not correct.
Next we'lll be adding Jellied eels >:(
What will solidify?
S
Mmmmmm jellied eels!
Takes me back to boyhood in Bermondsey....jellied eels followed by a glass of Sasparilla.
The jelly is from the boiled bones
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That is the sign of a good bone broth.