Curry Recipes Online
Curry Base Recipes => Curry Sauce, Curry Base , Curry Gravy Recipes, Secret Curry Base => Topic started by: parker21 on October 05, 2007, 08:37 PM
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hi guys/girls
just lately when i have run out of base sauce i have been walking my dogs across the fields to my local to get a vindaloo sauce ( having already precooked the chicken). the other night i thought i would ask to see the sauce cooked(as there has been a new chef for a while now). Amin went through to the kitchen to ask if chef minded having an audience....me ;D he reappeared to say go on through. the chef was alot younger than me (36) and his name was the same as the last chef Miah.i shok his hand and then he proceeded to show me how he cooks it.
first he reached up to a shelf above the cooker to the stacks ot frying pans and put it on the gas ring to heat up about 40 seconds then added 2 tbsps of veg oil from an old ghee pot on the back of the cooker. he then reached into a pot and sprinkled chopped garlic 2 chefs pinches into the pan after about 30 seconds he stirred it and removed from the heat to add the other ingredients 1tbsp tomato paste (from a large tin and mixed with water ketchup consistency) 1tbsp chilli powder 1tsp salt 1 heaped tsp curry powder (bought in prepacked did not get the brand-but any good curry powder will do,rajah mild ) he then put the pan back on the heat turned up to full power then added 1/4 large ladle of runny base sauce(200ml ladle ) to the pan mixed well the he turned the extractor on ( i guess he smelt toffee ::)) then added 2 more ladles of base and then 1 chefs pinch of methi and shortly followed by chefs pinch of fresh coriander (cilantro) stirred in an then left to bubble away for about 5 minutes stirring occassionally.then he turned to me and said there it's done. he poured it into the foil container lid on.
as usual it tasted fab
i did ask how he makes his base sauce he said fill the pot to the top with onions 15 ltr pot cook for 1 1/2 hours with salt water and veg oil add green peppers fresh tomatoes ( i assume they slice the skin off and use this for the onion salad as well, waste nothing) curry powder, turmeric and .........coconut milk! cook for another 1 1/2 hours and then blend i guess. the gravy looks like most i have seen in colour and is quite runny. i have heard somewhere that the runnier the sauce the better it will be but have yet to try it out. i did make a sauce the other night had no fresh tomatoes i could use so had to use tom puree ( did not have 15 litre pot or the onions to fill one so used 5 large onions chopped finely 1 heaped dsp tom puree,2 large garlic cloves, 1 green pepper, 3 green chillies ,1 carrot chopped, 3/4 tbsp salt 250ml veg oil a palmful fresh coriander and hot water 1 ltr , 2dsp rajah madras curry powder 1tbsp turmeric. cooked onions and garlic and salt with 2tbsp veg oil 5tbsp water with lid on for about 50 mins then added chillies, pepper,carrot,coriander,tomato puree and the rest of the water and oil mix well and fast simmer for 30 mins just until the carrots are cooked then add the curry powder and turmeric stir in well ( because i didnot have any coconut milk i put in 1 tbsp of creamed coconut) and simmer for 20 mins. take off the heat and blend. i added a littlie more hot water to make slightly runnier soup consistency. used to make chicken vindaloo very nice i just don't have the heat to make the most of this.
hope you guys/gls enjoy the read and my 3rd visit into the kitchen
regards
gary
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Excellent post Garry, did the chef mention anything about chicken stock?
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hi sorry no he didnot but the curries i have made being very close to the vindaloos i have been getting lately and they seem to be meaty tasting i think it is the curry powder . i am going to try it with the coconut milk it got today.... tomorrow so will let you know it went
;)
regards
gary
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Thanks for sharing this parker21,
I feel sure with this kind of info we must be so very close to achieving the real thing.
I will have to try this recipe out and report back.
I really need to get talking to my local curry man to see what secrets i can get.
Respect to you for actually getting in the kithcen mate....next time sneak a video camera in!!
Stew 8)
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Will give this a go next time I make a batch, intresting that it's just plain curry powder as the main spicing.
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I can't help thinking that that curry powder is probably his own mix and will contain more than just a shop bought standard curry powder. Otherwise the only spices would be the curry powder, chilli and methi. It just seems too simple.
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Hi Gary,
Thanks for an interesting post of what you've SEEN go on in a BIR! 8)
Minimal spicing or what! :o
However, I'm very intrigued by this comment that you made....
.....mixed well the he turned the extractor on ( i guess he smelt toffee ::) ).....
I'm not sure what you meant by that? Do you think that decent BIR curries don't smell a little like toffee? Or that high heat has nothing to do with developing this smell? Or both? Or neither?
Pray, please do tell! lol :P
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hi
what i meant about the toffee smell is that in order to release the oils in the spices the pan/oil must be hot so in goes the garlic when it floats remove the pan from the heat to add the tomato paste chilli salt and curry powder return to heat stir well keep stirring until you smell toffee like aroma remove pan from heat then add a ladle of base sauce and mix well when bubbling add 2 more ladles and then the fenugreek stir well........etc add chicken heat for couple of mins add potato alittle more sauce coriander 2 more mins garnish and cover and let it settle for 5 mins , then go outside to clear you nose.
regarding his own mix of curry powder this it was not i double checked .so it would be handy to get the brand he used.
made a base with 6 onions 1 pepper 1small carrot palmful of coriander 1 tomato deskinned and chopped 1 heaped dsp tomato puree 250ml oil 1 1/2 ltr hot water 1tbsp salt. 2 dsp rajah madras curry powder 1 dsp turmeric 2/3 tin coconut milk.
boil onions salt pepper carrot coriander tomato and puree oil and water for 1/2 hour add the curry powder and turmeric stir well simmmer for 45 mins then add the coconut milk simmer for 20 mins blend then add water until thinnish soup consistency simmer for 45 mins with the lid on hopefully the oil will rise up do not worry if not . th eoil will rise when cooking the final dish. made vindaloo as above yummy.
regards
gary
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Hi Gary,
Interesting post, thanks!
Couple of questions about the heat used when cooking:
first he reached up to a shelf above the cooker to the stacks ot frying pans and put it on the gas ring to heat up about 40 seconds then added 2 tbsps of veg oil from an old ghee pot on the back of the cooker. he then reached into a pot and sprinkled chopped garlic 2 chefs pinches into the pan after about 30 seconds he stirred it and removed from the heat to add the other ingredients 1tbsp tomato paste (from a large tin and mixed with water ketchup consistency) 1tbsp chilli powder 1tsp salt 1 heaped tsp curry powder (bought in prepacked did not get the brand-but any good curry powder will do,rajah mild )
Would you say the heat was at 'medium' up until this point?
he then put the pan back on the heat turned up to full power then added 1/4 large ladle of runny base sauce(200ml ladle ) to the pan mixed well the he turned the extractor on ( i guess he smelt toffee ::)) then added 2 more ladles of base and then 1 chefs pinch of methi and shortly followed by chefs pinch of fresh coriander (cilantro) stirred in an then left to bubble away for about 5 minutes stirring occassionally.
Was the heat left on full for the 5 minutes of bubbling, or turned down?
Cheers,
Richard.
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hi rwr it didnot matter that the heat was only on medium because the pan and oil were hot. he turned the extractor on so he did not choke from the fumes (toffee smell) can be overpowering. because the base was runny it could be left to bubble.without fear of any burning taking place.plus the flame heats the pan differently because of the size of the flame "licks" the outside of the pan.
regards
gary
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Cheers Gary. Would you say it was on medium for the adding of the garlic and spices though, i.e. it wasn't going full burn at this stage?
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I assume the effect of that coconut milk must be pretty subtle otherwise all the curries would taste of coconut?
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first time I have heard of coconut milk used in a base sauce - wonder if the chef is from the south of India ?
Kev.
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hi richard
yes i would say it was probably on medium.
2 nights ago i set up my camping stove which i have been apprehensive about using to cook my curries so i have just looked at it in the case it comes in . more worried about the setting up ie putting the gas cylinder correctly so as not to set fire to the kitchen. but as have said wednesday night i used it and oh my god how quick and easy was it to make my best tasting curry yet and the closet tasting to Rajver my locals. i was astounded and all for the price of set meal for one at Rajver which is ?11.95. the camping stove i got from wilkinsons with 3 butane gas cylinders so ?9.99 plus 3 gas for ?2.97 99p each. and i will now use it all the time and the controlability compared to the electric hob.
everyone go get your self one now if you don't have one or gas cooker.the energy is only 2kw 1/5 of the restaurants but worth every penny
the coconut milk does not over power the base. it just gives it a hint if you didnot know the ingredients you would not really know it was in there iukwim. will be making another vindaloo tonight Rajver style.
take care
and kind regards
gary
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I made a batch of this at the weekend and is promising so far but will post a follow up when I have made a vindaloo with it this week sometime.
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Thanks for posting this,Parker 21
It's fantastic getting behind the scenes, isn't it?
It feels somehow magical and secret
It leaves you wishing to go back again
All the chefs I've met are really friendly people
When they have met you a few times, they don't mind telling you things
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first time I have heard of coconut milk used in a base sauce - wonder if the chef is from the south of India ?
I think I recollect that Terry specified coconut in his base sauce recipe from a BIR which he used to work at. I tried his base sauce and it was good, and you couldn't taste the coconut as such but it obviously added something.
Regards
George
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havent posted for a while,but this thread caught my attention ( i cant get enough of these "behind the scenes" recipes!!)..anyway,i was curious Parker about the camping gas and how it made your best curry yet...ive always assumed that the heat theyre able to create must play a large role in the taste etc...but you said that the chef had things on medium heat,so im just curious as to why you thought the camping gas might have improved things(i/m willing to try just about bloody anything to get nearer to the taste rofl )?
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hi lagathy
when you have been cooking restaurant curries for as lom=ng as i have on an electric hob which just blasts out 1.3kw of heat intensley confined to the ring and then you get hold of a gas camping stove which only chucks out 2kw but control completely at your finger tips you too would make the best curries you have ever had. and thats not to mention the fact that i have actually been in the kitchens of a bir on four occassions to actually witness and document what i see so the techniques i have witnessed and practiced. there is never a day goes by that i am not eating a vindaloo rice naan or defrosting some chicken to precook for that evening. dude just try the dish yourself but it will only taste like Rajvers sauce and vindaloo if you follow the recipe to the letter before you try to mix and match it with another recipe. i will try to get some more demos this week as i am on holiday and told a friend i would try to cook her a dansak ;D
that is not to say add less chill powder and you could probably get away with a madras and maybe put a lemon wedge in just before you add the chicken but removing before serving. the lemon wedge not hte chicken ;)
oh and the gas was on medium to heat the oil and garlic before adding the spices and turning up the heat to full then comes the toffee spice release then comes the sauce! added off the heat!
regards
gary
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ck did you try to make the vindaloo?
gary
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gary, I made 3 curries today using Haldi's base (watery). I used your vindaloo recipe. Got to say this method is very good and I managed not to burn the powders by taking off the heat and adding with the tomato purre/water mix.
I don't think we all need mega burners, it is more important to know when it is getting too hot by eye and adjust as needed.
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hi jeera
try it with the base i posted and you won't dissapointed.but renember about the smell of toffee when you ad the spices tom puree and the chilli powder and salt once you get that it will come quite quickly after you put it back on the gas then adding the first ladle of your base. i'm very pleased at last someone is actually listening to my comments and input from my experience of demos and good relationship with my locals and how good they are. they have been voted for entry into a good customer satisfaction award. i would certainly agree as this afternoon the wife had her half of my set meal for one from friday night. chicken tikka starter chicken vindaloo bombay aloo pilau rice and plain naan. i polished the salad onion bhajis poppadoms and mint sauce the other night, anyway she was kind enough to feed me a couple of mouthfuls and it was delicious........sorry started to salivate. anyway to anyone starting the curry quest by all means try the others but thhis is not a hard recipe to cook or follow by all means someone is free to edit the recipe into the most readable format for even newbies to follow. i popped into my local tonight to give the chef a sample of my sauce not sure if he will see or even taste it but it is worth a try and to ask for a recipe for a dansak the owner said comeback on tuesday @ 5pm as they were busy . so here's fingers crossed. will ask for the recipe with more quantities for the base sauce the use in the restaurant all 15 litres of it( may do a few curries for a couple weeks maybe)..... good luck. and goodluck to another site with the book. may do one myself :D?
lol ::)
regards
gary
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Made my second curry with this base and can now confirm it's the real deal, one of the best bases i've tried. I made the base as described but left out coconut and used just two spoons of rajah madras curry powder and one turmeric for spice. I made my usual vindaloo and used secret santas spice mix but guessing any decent one will do. I have also made a lamb bhuna and again restaurant quality. I cooked everything at full heat and belive that this is a key part, the currys I heated up later in the evening in the same pan that I cooked them in. Both currys had that more'ish BIR taste and better than I have ever made. If a few more people could try this one as I would be interested to get some more opinions on it. Massive thanks to parker21 for sharing, it's a winner and secret santa for the spice mix, great stuff 8)
Should also add that for the main curry I mix up a tablespoon of passata with some tom puree to add just after garlic puree. The extra liquid flares the whole pan up, give it a quick woosh round and bung in your spice mix\chili powder. It takes a bit of practice not to burn them but i'm sure this is a big part of getting the taste. Oh and plenty of salt, I think the salt is also a major part in the BIR taste.
cK
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I will be trying this base and curry soon
I had it at one point, but can't find Secret Santa's spice mix (I want to use it)
I assume it's just proportions of cummin,coriander,curry powder,paprika and turmeric.
But someone tell me exact, please.
then added 2 tbsps of veg oil from an old ghee pot on the back of the cooker
regards
gary
I bet this was curry gravy oil, scooped off from the cooked base
The funny thing is that most takeaways/restaurants seem to keep it in an old ghee tin, but none seem to use it in the cooking of their curries
So is it in the base, or their rice?
Thanks for the posts Gary
I hope you get more
This "toffee" smell cooking procedure ,seems to be one the most important things, doesn't it?
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Hi Haldi,
The spice mix recipe is here:
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2096.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2096.0)
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hi jeera
try it with the base i posted and you won't dissapointed.
I did another one using this method and also with Santa spice mix plus some cinnamon and that was by best to date - and I've made loads in my time.
I also mixed the puree, salt, water and powdered spices into a paste and used that instead of adding the dry spices. I got that 'waft of magic' when this hit the pan.
here are some pictures
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2138.0
I'll definatly try your base next time Gary. This one was great, so I have high hopes based on you and CK's comments.
This is restaurant class sfuff now.
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hi guys/gls
very pleased that you are all happy with your results using the Rajver base i posted. i also believe that this is the best base i have had from rajver. next time i go in i will try to get another viewing and maybe taste the base again. at last we are getting closer and closer to our goal. i have found that using passata instead of tomato puree/paste i have better results. as i said before most of the hard work is done in the first minute of cooking you final dish then it is all about getting the consistency right then adding the coriander at the end.have yet to try CK's method of cooking the curry in advance and then reheating the curry later in the evening as i am normally cooking at about 9 o'clock in the evening and there is never any left over.
remember TOFFEE SMELL IS GOOD BUT DO NOT GO BEYOND THIS SMELL AS YOU WILL PROBABLY GOING TO BURN THE SPICES. SO TOFFEE SMELL THEN ADD A LADLE OF BASE.
good luck all of you and happy currying!
any questions then i will try to answer them as soon as i can
regards
gary
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If a few more people could try this one as I would be interested to get some more opinions on it
cK
I made this base yesterday
I have a couple of frozen bases from different takeaways and this is almost identical to one of them
So I definitely rate this recipe
However I came totally unstuck on making a curry with it
Don't get me wrong, nothing tasted horrible, but nothing turned out amazing either
I wanted to make the sauce as Parker 21 described
I am certain that it's just me having a bad cooking evening
So a couple of questions
Did everyone get the oil to seperate out of the base?
Mine remained stubbornly hidden
Did you use that reclaimed oil for the finished curry cooking, or did you use fresh oil?
This "toffee" smell and the cooking of the garlic:-
When the garlic "floats" is it browned?
Does the toffee smell come from the garlic or the spices?
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hi haldi
the toffee smell is a combination of the garlic (which is not brown) tomato paste spices and chilli powder oh and salt it does happen very quickly. so basically it is add the above to the pan quickly stir for not more than 10 seconds then adding the first base sauce and stir in well this should reduce again very quickly and the oil should rise to the top add the remainder of the heated base and then methi before adding the chicken etc.
i use fresh oil but as you well know that if you curry base oil the controlability ie flash point is higher and it does not burn as easily plus the added aroma when it is heating up.
you should know when the garlic is ready a you will smell ( if you put your nose over the pan) the rawness has gone and it smells slightly sweeter. but remember the fine chopped garlic will burn much more easily than garlic puree. remember the demos you have had the garlic puree does not burn it just "solidifies" i think it was the chicken balti and prawn madras demo. go back and read through your old post i do it regularly.
the next time you go in to the restaurant try telling the chef you have all this wonderful equipment and would he mind coming round to your home and giving you a demo using what you have and could he give you any tips if not.
i ran out of curry powder the other day it was after 6 o'clock in the evening nowhere around open that would do rajah curry powder so popped into Rajver to ask if i could have some (and some chillies) he said curry powder or mixed powder? i said mixed powder ( i am guessing that this is what he used for the curries) so when i went for my vindaloo demo what he actually ment ( probably because he thinks i know nothing about spices to make it easier tell him(me) curry powder). it looks and smells like Rajah madras gold that terry mentioned and so i did a comparison to the tiny bit of rajah mild curry powder i had actually got left. colour slightly more yellow and more aromatic can't quite put my finger on it. but i have used some and it did make a difference. i am going to try Rajah hot madras curry powder next time to see if that makes a difference. will keep you posted.
just had a thought looked at the spice mix that secrect santa posted and ck mentioned that he had used it with the sauce (minus the coconut milk) and made his best efforts to date. which is similar to bruce's restaurant masala with more turmeric than coriander so i think this would work .
well haldi hope this helps.
regards
gary
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well haldi hope this helps.
regards
gary
Thanks Gary, it does help
This spice mix is a bit of a mystery to me
I got a some very good results from a spice mix bought from a takeaway
I think they are all slightly different
Even though I was told what was in it, I couldn't mix it to the same aroma or taste.
The one I tried to mix was very mild, but I know two places that use a really hot mix.
They hardly put any in korma or ctm
The clever stuff is all done in their curry base
This is why I can't always mix and match recipes
One base can only go with it's own curry recipe
That is why I am interested in other recipes you get
I want to use them with your excellent base
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I am sooooo excited by this base recipe, :D and ck's positive comments, I am going to make it in the next couple of days and try the Madras recipe.
I will try to keep a record and take pictures along the way, I will post the results.
Thank you Gary for sharing it with us.
Cheers Onion :)
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Well, I was so excited about making this base, everything seemed right, the technique used was one I had not tried before, this is what happened and how it turned out.
Begin
12 Medium sized onions coarsely chopped
3 Litres water
1 Level dsrt spoon salt
2/3 Pint oil (Yikes!)
I placed this in a 5 litre pot and brought it to the boil, then I reduced the heat and kept it on a gentle boil for 1? hours. The smell of raw onions boiling was a bit overpowering, however, after an hour the smell started to become a lot sweeter and the oil was on the top.
I then added...
2 Green peppers chopped coarsely
4 Fresh large-ish tomatoes quartered and the hard core removed (I did not remove the skins as the base is going to be blended)
1 Small handful of fresh coriander stalks and all.
2? Large tbsp of Rajah mild madras curry powder (My large tablespoons hold 60 grms)
1 Tbsp turmeric
1 Tin of coconut milk
I continued to boil this gently for another 1? hours, then blended.
During this last period of boiling the oil continued to remain separated from the liquid, in the early stages the smell seemed quite close to what I would expect it to smell like. I could not resist tasting the liquid prior to blending, just so I could have an idea of before and after, the consistency was quite thin, the taste was very pleasant and the spices subtle and warm. I was expecting it to taste mainly of coconut, however, it did not, in fact you would not have known it was there.
At this point I pondered on adding some tomato puree but as it was not mentioned in the chefs base recipe I left it out, I would be adding it to a final Madras dish anyway.
Following the blending process, the base consistency was like a runny soup, the taste was still very subtle but now had a bit more body to it, I believe this is what a base should be like, a building block to add other flavours to. The oil emulsified with the liquid during the blending process and has not separated from the base.
I shall be making the Madras recipe this evening, I will post the results.
The pictures are as follows
1 Onions, water, salt and oil
2 The above mixture after 1? hours boiling
3 The addition of spices etc
4 The blended base
Onion
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Brilliant pictures
Looking forward to your next cooking post
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Great pics, i'm looking forward to your thoughts on the final curry 8)
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Just done this base and all went well. It smells nice and looks like the photo`s, but as for the rising oil does that come from further simmering once the blending has been done? Looking forward to cooking a Madras with this..
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Great post and pics Onion 8)
...by the way, "the smell of raw onion....was a bit overpowering"??.....you mean the ones in the pot I take it? ;D ;)
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Great post and pics Onion 8)
...by the way, "the smell of raw onion....was a bit overpowering"??.....you mean the ones in the pot I take it? ;D ;)
The smell of onion this morning was a overpowering as well ::) just ask the wife!!
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Ok here is the follow up using this base and the Madras recipe with mushroom fried rice.
I have to agree with CK, I do believe this is the real deal, I made a king prawn madras. It has as near as dammit the smell and taste of a BIR, the one thing I would change is the amount of salt, I would reduce it to 2 teaspoons in the base sauce, the base as it was did not taste salty at all, however, when it has reduced in the main dish, ( I addad salt to that as well) it was very slightly too salty for me, however, the wife thought it was just right.
As this is only the first go at this base the results are astounding and I beleieve it would be easy to tweak it to your own tastes. All the flavours are there, it has the sweetness, the texture and the moreish bit, nice heat coming through slowly, not smacking you in the mouth.
Thank you Gary, I am in your debt.
Pictures.
1 Pan on the heat
2 Added tomato puree, curry powder, salt, ginger/garlic puree
3 Final reduction and King prawns
4 Yes it is as good as my BIR
Onion
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hi guys/gls
what normally happens in the restaurant is they cook the sauce a day inadvance and then boil the next day for a short time and then reduce to a simmer before service. so if take out what you are going to use for this dish/es and either simmer until bubbling or bring to boil and then simmer the oil will rise. but alternatively cook with the sauce and the oil will rise when you cook the final dish and then scoop out what you do not need(some peeps recycle this oil as well although not goo for veggies iukwim ;)
regards and good luck with the meal hope you enjoy it
gary
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hi onion
great pics and very brave of you to attempt 15 onions version of this base. just pleased to help. bearing in mind that this recipe is at the moment unique to this site and this site only! keep up the good work . if i can get any more demos then i will posting as i can.
have a good weekend to one and all from me
regards
gary
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bearing in mind that this recipe is at the moment unique to this site and this site only!
Hi Gary
I do not subscribe to any other sites.
Onion
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Made this base the other day, left out the coconut and i can not for the life of me find Rajah madras Curry Powder anywhere so used regular supermarket stuff.
I thin i did not cook the onion for long enough as the sauce has a real bitter taste. To overcome this i just added sugar...this made all the difference to the base and this is a tip anyone can try.
I will always add sugar to my base now.
Very pleased with this base sauce.
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Gary,
Quick question about this base (and any other one that uses the "fill pot to the top with onions" measurement. I have to assume that this is referring to whole, peeled onions and not chopped onions. If it isn't, that's a boatload of chopped onions to fill a 15L pot!
The reason I ask this is I'm trying to figure out roughly what proportions that might be. Also, for you or anyone else who has made this base, did you just make educated guesses as to the amounts you specify (e.g. 5 onions, etc.), or are these based on proportions given to you by the chef?
Actually, I was wondering something else too... why is there no mention of the chillies, carrot or the coriander in the first description which, I'm assuming, came from the chef? Are these actually used by Rajver, or were they additions based on personal preference?
Sorry for so many questions, and thanks in advance.
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Gary so far so good (and i mean brill).
I've got the sauce made and I've never spent so much time tasting as i moved through the stages. i normally make KD and find your's a real deluxe base.
i think the green pepper really makes a difference. i think cooking the onions for a longish time is needed to make sure their sweet. i use coconut milk quite a lot in other cooking and amazed how it's taste disappears but clearly adds character.
i did not use turmeric as i don't like it. i did not add the ground chillie at the curry powder stage (i added 3 dried red chillies instead of the green earlier and they gave it sufficient kick). i also reduced the oil to 8 tbsp and did not thereby need to remove any later. I also picked up on one of your posts and sieved the tin of toms which i am sure improves the sweetness. i used my own garam which is based around KD. i particularly like the cooking of the garam which effectively made the base spiced but very well balanced.
i need to make your madras before i finally proclaim you a star but you're almost their. my expectations are very very high.
many many many thanks for your efforts.
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yes carrot and coriander but no chillies
regards
gary
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Gary,
your info is totally spot on. premier league status for sure.
have made about 6 test madras curries (about 200ml).
the 1st was using my normal method (oil in med/hot pan, then base sauce, then spice mix, then just before serve a little garam). i found your sauce to be much better than my normal KD. importantly it did not need the garam which has been a real problem in that in getting a spiced dish i could not get an even spice (something however much i change the garam ended up sticking out and spoiling the overall flavour)
the 2nd was your method (and probably closest to your instructions). the garlic did not brown but did release the rawness smell. i got the "toffee" smell which i prefer to call "choking" as to me the smell is nothing like toffee but very much a desired smell. i don't think i simmered for the 5 mins though and tasters complained that fine chopped garlic was still hard.
3rd go i got the garlic slightly brown and left the choking smell develop a little longer but again failed to let simmer enough to Cook the garlic through. this had the taste of takeaway/restaurant standard.
then i went totally wrong. i make pizza myself and pre cook the garlic to avoid it being hard. this ruined the choking smell. the curries were still good but now clearly dropped a league.
conclusions:
1) i am sold on this and the need for toffee smell as you call it.
2) the garlic must be raw and only cooked on medium heat until rawness smell gone (quite quick).
3) full heat is used to cook the water puree spice mix to get the toffee smell
4) essential to simmer for 5mins to get the garlic to cook through
5) i would not put chilli in the base as this reduces cooking stage flexibility
6) the existence of garam in the base gives good spice at cooking stage without anyone spice overpowering the rest
possible changes not really. i like garlic and i did put 1/4 bulb in the base which i think i would increase next time to a full bulb. still retaining the pinch at cooking stage. i am not sure on the absence of ginger but did not miss it. the only mix i buy is a tandoori masala which i use only for chicken either tikka or coated for use on pizza. i might just try this instead of spic mix to change from madras curry to tikka masala curry.
for info my spice mix is LB's Balti book (2 tsp paprika, 1/2 tsp chilli, 1 tsp salt, 1 1/2 tsp coriander, 1 tsp cumin).
Gary, just one question - would a finer chopped garlic be better ie from a mixer rather than by hand (not puree though as i appreciate this i think would be no good)
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yes carrot and coriander but no chillies
regards
gary
Hi Gary,
Thanks for the clarification on the ingredients. This is a base I really want to try, so I was just curious how you came to the proportions described from the original you saw, that's all. It's ok if you made educated guesses, btw, I was just wanting to be as accurate as possible.
Unfortunately, that's just how I am... ;)
Jerry,
I too found Gary's recommended cooking procedure to be the business in terms of getting the best curries so far (even with the KD base). The one thing that I did differently was to make a paste of the dry spices and his recommended amount of base first instead of doing it in the pan. I added this after browning some garlic in the hot oil and fried until "the smell" (which I find hard to classify as "toffee" either) and then a bit more before adding the rest of the base and meat.
Having done it by frying the dry spices when making SnS's Saffron Madras, I think I prefer to make the paste beforehand. I intend to make a paste in my next iteration of that to see if it makes a difference to the taste, but I do think it makes things slightly easier to manage without as much chance of burning the spices (which, fortunately, I've managed to avoid so far...).
Cheers,
ast
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Ast, totally agree with your thoughts. thanks jerry
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hi ast
it is the only smell that comes to mind and that comes from talking to chef. it is a toffee type smell.
glad the method and gravy worked for you
regards
gary
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Just back on the site after roughly a year and have found this thread and base sauce. I am at the cooking the onions stage and I am genuinely looking forward to the results.
Can I pick up on the camping gas idea deeper within that Gary has mentioned. I currently use a ceramic hob and to be honest it's not great, however I have often wondered about this camping burner idea myself.
I see Gary got a result with a really cheap one. Are you still using it or have you upgraded to a bigger or more elaborate one? I can get my hands on the type I have seen on TV from an Asian store locally here in France and intend to have a go.
Back in Glasgow where I come from there is a number of places where you can see the chefs using there massive gas rings blasting the tiny individual pans as they cook and often of course the contents catch fire which seems to be part if the process. So I will have a go within the next couple of weeks with the camping stove one way or the other and will report back. If anyone else cares to comment on camping stove experience I will look forward to hearing from you. Cheers Panpot.
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Panpot,
the electric hob is absolutely of no use in frying a curry.
i have had a 2.5kw LPG stove for perhaps a month now and can't believe the difference in cooking on a real flame. the camping stove is effectively what i've got (one of parker 's recommendations). my only reservation is that if it's the size that u can pack in your rucksack - then it's no good - not enough whumpf.
the 2.5kw is a balance for me and suits my needs - it works much better than hob (and i mean much), i use it to cook base and i use it in my kitchen. i have an option to get a bigger jet but as yet don't see a need.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2894.msg25642#msg25642 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2894.msg25642#msg25642)
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Tks Jerry, your a star for prompt reply and for the link and the photo. Could you tell me where you got it from? I feel there is mileage in this and will definitely have a go. What type of Gas are you using too? Thanks again, inspired cheers Panpot.
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OK cooked the base sauce as described and it turns out looking the part although no real smell off it even in the morning. It does taste sweet though which may well make it suitable for CTM and Kormas etc.
I intend to make a vegetable curry with caullieflower, potatoes and peas tonight just to test it and will report back. Unfortunately I had run out of usual Curry powder, TKS brand from UK Asian stores and had to use a small Jar of French brand not unlike typical UK supermarket brands. Probably will effect the smell but as we all know the final cooking is key so will look to improve on end result. Panpot
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Panpot,
the electric hob is absolutely of no use in frying a curry.
i have had a 2.5kw LPG stove for perhaps a month now and can't believe the difference in cooking on a real flame. the camping stove is effectively what i've got (one of parker 's recommendations). my only reservation is that if it's the size that u can pack in your rucksack - then it's no good - not enough whumpf.
the 2.5kw is a balance for me and suits my needs - it works much better than hob (and i mean much), i use it to cook base and i use it in my kitchen. i have an option to get a bigger jet but as yet don't see a need.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2894.msg25642#msg25642 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2894.msg25642#msg25642)
That's interesting but I use electric and my pan gets hot enough I believe, when cooking the curry it's only in the pan a short time really and have always thought heat is heat so to speak (unless your trying to char something), what difference do think it makes? I have an outside grill with separate propane burner I could cook my curries on that next time
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hi chowie the hob is fine if all you want is to cook a curry. but it normally chucks out a minimal 1.5 kW of heat and doesnot give the heat of even the most basic cheap gas stove normally 2.0kW of energy and the flame is also not blasting out the middle of the pan and immediate controllability the gas has. and it is probably cheaper than leaving hob on for a couple of hours. try using your side burner on your ouyside grill and you will see the diference. trust my i started on a leccy nob and since i have had my camping stove i have only cooked 2 curries on the electric hob due to not being able to get the gas cannisters. i've had my gas 1 since july last year and it also allows you to minimise on the mess as you can put a large newspaper underneath just like some do in the restaurants and the colours of the splatter giv ethe visual effect of being in your own BIR kitchen ;D
kind regards
gary
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Gary,
u just don't stop impressing me - a newspaper trick - honest my little grey cells had been going on this "cleanup" dilemma but i could not decide on the best approach - thanks for sharing best home practise.
Panpot,
i got mine via gary's link - from Hamilton gas products (in Northern Ireland) - the stove is actually from Italy. it's the 10" (250mm) version so that it sits on my existing electric hob - the cast iron base gets ruddy hot when cooking. it's a 2.5kw and there are a few posts on various options - i believe the general feeling is that 4kw is the min required - so far i've been happy with the output. i had to buy a piece of tube and connector from my local gas shop. i run it on a 5kg propane.
Chowie,
i think if u've got a gas hob then u won't see a lot of difference. the heat intensity produced by the open flame is nothing like an electric hob (which i have and use for normal cooking). i feel the gas brings an increase in consistency of cooking c/w electric hob. it also allows me to use a thinner base (ie more water) and i feel this get's much closer to real BIR (see Admin's Jalfrezi and the water trick).
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,2664.0.html (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,2664.0.html). i think there's more info on the water trick in SnS's Base July 08.
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I need to ask about the whole ceramic hob vs. "camping cooker"...
My hob is ceramic (pretty good model, apparently a "Professional") and I find it gets extremely hot. The oil gets smoking hot and I find it very easy to burn things. Granted it does not heat as quickly or cool as quickly as gas.
So what is it I get by upgrading to gas?
That said, how is that the flames happen with the gas hobs? What exactly is igniting and catching fire? The oil?
-- Josh
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Thanks for the responses guys, I will try it next time and I may be surprised but like what Josh says, I get lots of heat, I can't cook a curry on full heat with my electric hob as it just burns/splats/evaporates everything far to quick, this is why I was also surprised when seeing the videos of Maliks because if I had left thing on the heat like I've seen them do, well, I would have some bad curries. But I guess it's a different kind of heat so I will be stinking the neighborhood out for my next curries outside.
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Josh,
there's probably no quick answer.
ceramic is probably better than my "hot plate" hob - mine has a hot spot in one area and this i feel affects the consistency of the curry - high tendency to get some local burning at both frying and simmer stages.
i feel the electric hob only heats the base of the pan and heat is then transferred through the metal to the sides. the gas sort of wraps around the pan better so that the whole of the pan is heated.
i think the pan is equally important. i also think the large spoon has a part to play (too soon to say).
the extra whumph allows me to add more water to the base ie thinner and this is then evaporated off during the simmer "boil" and this definitely adds taste to the finished dish (re Admin's Jalfrezi adding water and SnS made the point in i think the July 08 base)
i feel this better heat distribution around the pan is better suited to the cooking method suggested previously as producing better results ie to leave the base mainly undisturbed once the frying stage is complete ie swirl and stir. the Malik video now shows the correct method vividly.
i no longer think getting the oil to smoke is key and certainly don't aim for any flames. i aim to emulsify the oil and spice using water in the tom puree and start with everything cold.
the gas has the added advantage of speeding up the frying/cooking process.
i suppose the acid test for me is i've cooked curry on electric for what 8mths. i've only had the stove a month and i've had to buy the big spoon. this is partially to do with the heat from the stove along with the inevitable spitting
in quick answer - it's like standing by a bonfire c/w an electric fire.
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Thanks everyone for picking up on the gas stove,I appreciate it. Jerry I will order one just like yours however I noticed last night on the Jamie Oliver programme he was using gas stoves at the football ground. I can get my hands on one of these this weekend and wondered if any of you camping gas enthusiasts saw it and if you have any views on the efficiency of this type. Gary is there any chance of a photograph of your own if it differs from Jerry's?
Back to the core of the thread. I cooked the vegetable curry last night ( first one from the site in easily six months ) and while my wife and her pal loved it I was not sure of the smell or taste being as good as I expected. Now it may be I was just needing match practice but following the method featured above I feel something was missing either onion paste or something similar. I hope I am not out of order here but way back when we had the trouble with the Andy Guy he posted a recipe for an onion type paste to be added towards the end. It wasn't easy to make although I did and froze it and used it for a year and it certainly brought the smell and flavours out. I cant find it on the site now which is OK but wondered if there is a better one somewhere else or some other similar approach worth exploring.
Thanks as ever for the best site on the web, looking forward to months of experimenting and cooking. So having come back a few days ago I have two batches of different base sauces tucked away in yogurt tubs in the freezer ,great. Panpot
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I hope I am not out of order here but way back when we had the trouble with the Andy Guy he posted a recipe for an onion type paste to be added towards the end. It wasn't easy to make although I did and froze it and used it for a year and it certainly brought the smell and flavours out. I cant find it on the site now which is OK but wondered if there is a better one somewhere else or some other similar approach worth exploring.
Hi Panpot ;)
You can find the (cough) Andy onion paste on the Natco site here: http://www.natco-online.com/acatalog/Holy_Grail.html
He copied...umm ...I mean artistically plagiarised it from there. ::)
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Thanks Secret Santa.
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Panpot,
SnS picked out an alternative here http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2944.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2944.0) - depends on pocket.
I missed JO's programme. If u can get the burner/stove local then would go ahead - i don't feel u can go wrong. I've just re read CA's earlier post when he suggests 5.5kw is the min required http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1851.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1851.0)
on andy's stuff it's filed http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?board=68.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?board=68.0). can u post if poss which onion paste u refer to.
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Jerry your a star, thanks for the link and although the pro wok kit is relatively dear compared to basic Camping Gas products here in France its really good value.
Am I right in picking up that the gas stove route isn't so good for simmering,say base sauce? Did you ever find out if Gary was able to do so on his gas stove? I am now wondering whether like you I actually want one that can sit safely on top of my ceramic hob or whether I want the outdoor model to gain the extra heat. Certainly as I have posted allready in my Local Take Away back in the Glasgow area the chef blasts the cooking with the gas full up so it catches the contents on fire with flames shooting up into the huge hood above. Clearly I couldn't risk that in my kitchen here. I also like doing Chinese and Thai. Anyway thanks again I really appreciate you taking the time to find the links.
I will have a go at both onion pastes since the Andy one did the business for me although was a hassle to make. It might be a while before I get round to it and getting support from the real boss here for buying a stove will take a few more brownie points. Cheers Panpot
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Panpot
Am I right in picking up that the gas stove route isn't so good for simmering
the stove i have is spot on for both frying and simmering. i make both curries and base on it. there seems to be to be some evidence that my 2.5kw stove may not be a as good as say a 5.5kw or 7.0kw - i don't know having not used a bigger version. The 2.5kw would be no good for Chinese (too much volume of ingredient).
i can get bigger jets for the stove which would take it upto to around 5 or 8kw. the trouble is it needs to be turned down to it's lowest setting for cooking base. my concern if i went to the bigger jet is that it would be too hot to make base.
at the mo i'm quite happy with the existing setup - i don't feel i need more kw for the frying/cooking stage.
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Thanks again Gerry, just out of interest where are you and what type of curry are you most attracted to? Cheers Pampot
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i live in warrington (between liverpool and manchester). i'm from birmingham originally.
madras is my fav. i go for either sylhety or garlic chicken if on the real stuff though (they are both like a bhuna with slithers of pre fried garlic).
would live on curry if the good lady would oblige
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HI JERRY
I AM FROM LIVERPOOL
DO YOU EVER FREQUENT THE SAID CITY FOR A CURRY
MARK
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Billycat,
we've plenty of good places local - parking in Liverpool is more difficult now the water front has the big arena there and the journey in from the rocket is a bit of a put off and going in via the south is a long way round.
spent a lot of time in Liverpool though. casa italia remains one of our regular haunts. we love the prom from otterspool.
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gary,
have adopted well and truly the "newspaper trick" - even on the floor.
many thanks it works a treat
original link http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2041.msg26955#msg26955 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2041.msg26955#msg26955)
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i've revisited this base having made my take on the CRO2 development base probably for the last 6 mths.
the rajver base is interesting in that it includes green pepper and quite complex spicing (turmeric, currypowder, coriander, cumin and garam masala).
the green pepper certainly added real good aroma during the base cooking. i also love the coconut in it.
the spicing is something i can't understand as my recollection is that it works in this base yet when i've tried it in the CRO2 base it don't.
the base taste every bit a good as i remember it (and i've made this base a lot). i do feel i miss the effect of the marg and whole spices from the CRO2 base though.
i must never have reclaimed oil from this base as it's a yucky chip pan colour (think i started with the saffron).
looking fwd to cooking with it this week.
for info recipe in list form http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=720.msg22787#msg22787 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=720.msg22787#msg22787)
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i've now cooked with the base and found it exactly how it was before - spot on.
i cooked for info CK's CTM, Admin's Jalfrezi, CK's Madras & my madras.
the tomato in the base caught me off guard and i had to reduce the amount of tom puree in my madras as a result.
i'll post details on what i was looking for in the more relevant post http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3266.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3266.0)
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make it cool.....
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