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Beginners Guide => Glossary => Glossary of Spices => Topic started by: Cory Ander on December 10, 2007, 01:40 AM

Title: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: Cory Ander on December 10, 2007, 01:40 AM
Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)

There are two main types of bay leaves:


The two types have distinctly different flavours and aromas and should not be confused.

"European" bay leaves should be used unless "Indian" bay leaves are specifically called for in a recipe.

Both types can be used fresh or dried, though dried are more commonly used.

They are generally added whole, to main dishes and rice dishes, and are removed prior to serving.  They are also used ground in garam masalas and curry powders. 

"European" Bay Leaves:

"European" bay leaves (laurel leaves) are from a laurel bush.  They grow to about 7cm (3inches) long.   They can be recognised by the single vein running down the centre of the leaf (see photo 1).   They are found worldwide, especially in Europe.  They are grown in England but not in India.  "European" bay leaves have a far more subtle aroma and flavour than "Indian" bay leaves.

"Indian" Bay Leaves:

"Indian" bay leaves (tamala leaves) are from a cassia (or cinnamon) tree. They are sometimes also called "cassia leaves".  They can be recognised by the multiple veins running down the centre of the leaf (see photo 2).  They are more difficult to obtain than "European" bay leaves.  They are slightly bigger and are far more aromatic and fragrant than "European" bay leaves.  "Indian" bay leaves have a powerful, aromatic aroma and flavour.  They can easily overpower a dish, with their distinctive flavour, and should therefore be used with caution.
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: Cory Ander on December 10, 2007, 01:46 AM
Photo 1 - "European" Bay Leaves (note the single vein)
Photo 2 - "Indian" Bay Leaves (note the multiple veins)
Photo 3 - "European" (on the left) and "Indian" (on the right) Bay Leaves Compared
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: Jethro on December 10, 2007, 09:35 AM
"European" Bay Leaves:

"European" bay leaves (laurel leaves) are from a laurel bush.  They grow to about 7cm (3inches) long.   They can be recognised by the single vein running down the centre of the leaf (see photo 1).   They are found worldwide, especially in Europe.  They are grown in England but not in India.  "European" bay leaves have a far more subtle aroma and flavour than "Indian" bay leaves.


Have to be a bit careful on this one.
It must come from the Laurus nobilis plant, not any other sort of laurel such as the type using in hedging (which is actually from the Prunus family)
So dont eat this one:
(http://www.evergreenhedging.co.uk/Images/laurel_hedge_02.jpg)
 ;)
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: George on February 05, 2008, 01:12 AM
Have to be a bit careful on this one.
It must come from the Laurus nobilis plant, not any other sort of laurel such as the type using in hedging (which is actually from the Prunus family)
So dont eat this one:

S***, I think I've been using leaves from the hedging type. I hope I haven't been poisoned. But MarkJ's base sauce tasted even better after I'd added a fresh leaf from my hedge.

This web site continues to be a gold mine of information. Many thanks.

Regards
George
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: haldi on February 16, 2008, 08:47 AM
OK, now I am really confused
This is the first time, I have ever seen, an Indian Bay Leaf
If you look at my uploaded picture, you will see what you call "European Bay Leaves"
and these are from an East End spice pack
They make the spices used in lots of BIR's
So do BIR use European bay leaves?
I'll have a good look next time I'm in an Asian supermarket to see if I can find any Indian Bay leaves
Where did you get yours, CA ?
Was it sold loose or bagged?
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: Cory Ander on February 16, 2008, 10:30 AM
Indian bay leaves (sometimes called cassia leaves) have the distinctive 4 veins Haldi.  They have a very pungent, musty, cinnamony, smell.

Those you have look like European bay leaves to me.  They hardly smell at all.

I have only ever (in 25 of years of curry cooking) seen asian bay leaves in one asian shop (in Australia).  That's where I bought mine from, in a big bag.

I guess (and it is a guess) that BIRs use European bay leaves.  The taste of Asian bay leaves is simply too overpowering (in my opinion) and European bay leaves are far easier to come by.
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: haldi on February 16, 2008, 05:32 PM
Hi CA
      Yes I think you're right
BIR's use european bay leaves
I checked two commercial brands (East End & Natco) and they are the European leaf
I'm going to keep looking for the indian variety
I had no idea they were from a cassia tree
I would love to try it
How about that, two different but great flavours from one plant?
I guess it's a bit like coriander leaves and seeds
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: Unclebuck on February 25, 2008, 04:00 PM
I have only ever (in 25 of years of curry cooking) seen asian bay leaves in one asian shop (in Australia).  That's where I bought mine from, in a big bag.

Indian bay leaves are readably available from any Asian supermarket i buy TRS bay leaf also i think rajah dose both types so careful there... as for bir's they use both. but Ive been chatting to a ex bir chef and tells me and i quote "make sure you buy Indian bay leaves not English ones"
 ;D
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: George on February 27, 2008, 01:25 AM
Quote from: george
True, if they are dry and stale out of an old packet!  But fresh Bay leaves or 'fresh' dried ones have a great aroma / flavour

I've never tried fresh (from a privot hedge or otherwise George  ;)) 

I guess all my dried ones have been old and stale then...regardless of the fact that they have always been from new, previously unopened, bags.

Try smelling some Asian ones (by way of contrast) and I think you will see what I mean.

Ooops!  :o

Sorry George!  I seem to have accidentally written over your post!  :-[

Can you remember what you said?!  ::)
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: hidden on April 18, 2008, 03:49 AM
Thanks alot for postng these since I was deciding for a nice herb to mash up and use and as a decrotive purpose also.

Top quality photographs and a very nice looking herb indeed.
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: Bobby Bhuna on April 18, 2008, 11:29 AM
I've ogt the Rajah ones atm, and some of them look pretty diseased. I'll post pictures. In the mean time, lets hope that viruses have yet to pass the plant / human barrier ;D
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: JerryM on April 02, 2010, 10:21 AM
i've finally found a packet (found in stoke).

not had chance to use them yet but on a chew test i'm well impressed and have high hopes - the european bay tastes very sour in comparison and generally very much inferior.

given my difficulties in finding the stuff - not all BIR must use. with hindsight u need to ask for "Bengali" bay. i'd asked for asian bay previously and only received blanks looks. even an asian lady shopping in the shop had not come across the bengali type (she even had her own european bay tree which she recommended). the lady i am sure bought a bag of the bengali to try too.

ps many thanks to commis for the local heads up on Stoke - had real good morning out and found a real gem - First Choice Continental Foods, Newlands Street, ST4 7AE

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/738a984080e9d3dbc96539e2d295837c.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#738a984080e9d3dbc96539e2d295837c.jpg)
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: Secret Santa on April 03, 2010, 10:12 AM
given my difficulties in finding the stuff - not all BIR must use.

Honestly Jerry I just can't relate to this statement. I've been using this for years and have never had any problem getting it. It's available from all the usual suppliers, e.g. Natco, TRS, East End etc.

If you say you've had problems getting it I have to take your word, but you must be living in some far out wilderness!   ;D

And although I can't say for sure that all BIRs use it, in all cases where I have been able to see a BIR using 'bay leaves' they have been the asian bay.
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: CurryOnRegardless on April 04, 2010, 09:12 AM
Maybe it's a North West thing, not being able to find the Asian ones. For years I couldn't find them then a new Asian supermarket opened and they had them in stock so I bought loads of packs of them (TRS brand) as I think they are essential in plain and pillau rice and in base gravies.
Since I cleaned them out they have not had the real thing back on the shelves, they stock East End but only the European variety and when I've asked about the Asian ones they come over all 'no comprende'.
I'm well stocked up for now but as soon as I see any more I shall be bulk buying again.

Cheers
CoR
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: JerryM on April 04, 2010, 10:14 AM
Secret Santa,

i too was taken a back by how hard it was to find/get. i know i would be able to get in rusholme for example 100% (i include longsight as well) - the place has never failed in supplying everything i've found difficult to get elsewhere - it's just a bit of a jaunt to get their. i generally shop local in warrington or bolton and both do not stock.

trouble is now i think part of the difficulty was that u can't ask for "Asian Bay" - it needs to be "Bengali Bay".
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: Secret Santa on April 04, 2010, 01:35 PM
Actually what worries me more about this asian/bengali/english bay thing is that it now seems clear that many people are/have been using the English laurel bay. Now perhaps I'm just losing some sensitivity in my taste as I age but the dried English bay taste like cardboard to me, there's just no flavour to extract from them.

The asian bay is a whole different matter though and has loads of flavour to extract, so perhaps this thread will nudge people to start using the real thing.
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: JerryM on April 05, 2010, 08:40 AM
so perhaps this thread will nudge people to start using the real thing.

i certainly hope so. whether it's used or not by BIR this bengali bay is far superior and i'm confident will remain a key ingredient in my store cupboard replacing the naffer version.
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: CurryOnRegardless on April 05, 2010, 11:05 AM
I think it most definitely a BIR thing, at least from years ago, for me a decent pillau rice just isn't right without it.

Regards
CoR
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: CurryOnRegardless on April 08, 2010, 10:55 AM


i too was taken a back by how hard it was to find/get. i know i would be able to get in rusholme for example 100% (i include longsight as well) - the place has never failed in supplying everything i've found difficult to get elsewhere - it's just a bit of a jaunt to get their. i generally shop local in warrington or bolton and both do not stock.



Hi JerryM

Would Cheetam Hill be easier, there are some cracking Asian supermarkets and since they built the new Tesco parking is a doddle, the 'Manchester Superstore' is amazing, the Kashmir and Worldwide are great as well. Got myself 4 big (200g) packets of Asian Bay leaves, TRS brand, for a fiver yesterday, that's probably enough to last for another couple of years or so!

Cheers
CoR
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: matt3333 on April 08, 2010, 12:48 PM
Hi
If anyone is interested the asiancookshop.co.uk sells TRS Tej Patta (Indian Bay Leaves)
Might be of use to those not near Asian shops.
M
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: JerryM on April 10, 2010, 08:36 AM
CoR,

many thanks. Cheetam Hill must of changed a bit. i'll tryout the stores next time i'm passing.

ps the Manchester Superstore is the same name as the shop i use mainly in bolton.
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: George on April 11, 2010, 12:23 AM
Actually what worries me more about this asian/bengali/english bay thing is that it now seems clear that many people are/have been using the English laurel bay. Now perhaps I'm just losing some sensitivity in my taste as I age but the dried English bay taste like cardboard to me, there's just no flavour to extract from them.

I think it's horses for courses. The English laurel bay leaf is a staple ingredient in European cooking. As I said before, they have loads of flavour when fresh. I think the Asian 'Bay' leaf is from a completely different plant with a completely diiferent aroma, just like tea is different to coffee. I now realise I've been making a mistake, using English bay leaves in Indian cooking.
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: Secret Santa on April 11, 2010, 03:26 PM
The English laurel bay leaf is a staple ingredient in European cooking. As I said before, they have loads of flavour when fresh.

No dispute there George, it's only the dried ones I find unpalatable.

And I don't think you're alone in using them in curries but hopefully more people will now try to get the Asian ones.
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: artistpaul on April 25, 2010, 10:07 PM
Hi Guys

I used to live in Ireland and had a European Bay tree growing in my garden, so it was used fresh all of the time in various dishes not just Indian

I now live in Turkey where the Asian variety grow everywhere like weeds so when I need some I walk 10 yards and pick them for free

I can safely assure you the European variety  even fresh are all but a bit useless after you have cooked with the Asian variety, you might as well chuck in a few leaves from a privet hedge

Get some and try them in your next go at making even Spag Bol of which a bay leaf is always specified, you will be converted

Make some Pillau rice with the Asian one, well the difference will be sooooo obvious IMO
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: DalPuri on January 05, 2012, 07:02 PM
Ive FINALLY found some tej patta!! ;D(where's that dancin smiley?)
Yet another erroneously named thing in the curry world. ::)
Bay leaf ::) NO!!
Malabar leaf YES. ;)

My quest took me all around Bradford and Blackburn to no avail, only for me aunt to find some in Burnley ;D Whoo hooo!
Very very different in flavour. ;)


YEARS ive been wanting to go to Bradford, YEARS!
what a let down!!!!!!!!
Was the same when i went to Southall 25 years ago. "is this it?" i said. :P


Ya cant beat good ole' Tooting ;)
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: curryhell on January 05, 2012, 07:36 PM
Ive FINALLY found some tej patta!! ;D(where's that dancin smiley?)
Yet another erroneously named thing in the curry world. ::)
Bay leaf ::) NO!!
Malabar leaf YES. ;)

My quest took me all around Bradford and Blackburn to no avail, only for me aunt to find some in Burnley ;D Whoo hooo!
Very very different in flavour. ;)


YEARS ive been wanting to go to Bradford, YEARS!
what a let down!!!!!!!!
Was the same when i went to Southall 25 years ago. "is this it?" i said. :P


Ya cant beat good ole' Tooting ;)

Aye, remember the place well and you'd probably have got it in Tooting easily :D.  Spent a lot of my childhood there.  Congratulations on finding the Asian bay.  Boy are you in for a surprise when you use it :o.  It is so so different :P  Just opening my container the aroma is fantastic.  This was probably one of my memorable cooking moments of 2011 when i eventually managed to track it down and first used it in pulao rice. The european variety doesn't even come anywhere close.  And you can see why you only need one or two leaves :o
Title: Re: Bay Leaves (Tej Patta)
Post by: DalPuri on January 05, 2012, 08:10 PM
Ive been living in mid wales for about 15 years now, and the only thing i miss about london is the shops, in particular spice shops and take aways. :'(
havent been down for 2 n half years now, used to be every week for work.
maybe its a good thing though.....rekindled hobby + collecting tendencies = 2nd kitchen? hahaha
SO many spices now! :P