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British Indian Restaurant Recipes - Main Dishes => BIR Main Dishes Chat => Topic started by: ast on January 03, 2008, 02:26 PM

Title: Vindaloo Experiment #1 (Illustrated)
Post by: ast on January 03, 2008, 02:26 PM
Since I'm working at home today and few people are back, I decided that I'd have a go using some of what I've learned from the forum to make a Chicken Vindaloo for lunch.  I'm happy to say, that I think it's all down to technique, because I think it was every bit as good as BIR curries I've had from my favorite restaurant.  I also have that same "heavy" feeling after eating it that I have with "real" BIR, so something must've gone right.

Most of what I did was influenced heavily by the cooking techniques described by Gary (parker21) in this post:  http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2041.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2041.0).

However, I only used it as a guide as to techniques, and adapted some things as well.  Here's the run-down of what I did:

I started with some of the remaining Stage 3 KD base I described in this post: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2246.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2246.0) and half of the remaining cooked chicken.  I set aside about 500ml of the base.

I then put about 3 tablespoons of oil in a 1/4 cup measure and added 1/4 tsp of dry minced garlic to it (I used all of the fresh we had the other day).  I let this sit awhile, so that the granules would absorb some of the oil, but it was also so I could get the rest of the stuff organized.

I then decided I'd use the spices from the KD curry recipe, so I made a spice mix of:

(http://atownley.org/images/cooking/curry_exp1/spice_mix_2008-01-03_AST.jpg)
Dry Spice Mix

I'd originally decided I'd follow Gary's method to fry the dried spices, but then I knew I wanted to add some of the remaining fresh chillies I had.  I looked at my notes from Gary's post and decided that it would make sense to cook the chillies in with the dry spices, so then I decided I'd add them to the spice mix.  Having mixed it and coated the chopped chillies, I got to looking at the process again and said, "Why not make a paste instead?"

Again, based on Gary's method ("1/4 ladle of runny base sauce(200ml ladle)"), I poured 50ml of base into the dry spice mix and made a paste.

(http://atownley.org/images/cooking/curry_exp1/spice_paste_2008-01-03_AST.jpg)
Vindaloo Paste Mixture

Once this was ready, I started to actually prepare the vindaloo.  I heated the empty pan on med-high heat until it felt like it was ready (not sure how else to put this).  I dumped in the oil and garlic and quickly swirled it around the pan, roasting the garlic granules and making sure they didn't burn.  Not sure if it was 30s or not.

I then added the paste to the hot pan (not removing it from the heat) and quickly stirred it around to fry the paste.  I'd say it was about a minute.

(http://atownley.org/images/cooking/curry_exp1/frying_paste_2008-01-03_AST.jpg)
Frying the Paste Mixture

After that, I dumped in the remainder of the base sauce and boiled gently (reduced the heat to around medium), stirring constantly (mostly to reduce the splatter) for about 3 minutes to reduce it to close to my desired consistency.

(http://atownley.org/images/cooking/curry_exp1/1st_reduction_2008-01-03_AST.jpg)
After First Reduction

I then added the chicken and continued to stir occasionally for about 3 minutes.

(http://atownley.org/images/cooking/curry_exp1/finished_vindaloo_2008-01-03_AST.jpg)
Finished Vindaloo (in the pan)

Served over a fresh batch of my pilau rice (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2233.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2233.0)) and garnished with a few of the chopped chillies and a few sprinkles of dried coriander leaf (but without the Cobra beer this time). :(

(http://atownley.org/images/cooking/curry_exp1/served_vindaloo_2008-01-03_AST.jpg)
Finished Vindaloo (presented)

Based on it being exactly the same base, and exactly the same spices but yielding vastly superior results than my New Year's Day efforts, I don't see how there's a "secret" ingredient missing from any of the bases people are using on this forum.  It all comes down to the technique used in making the curries.

Of course, the big question is:  can I actually do it again??? ;)

All-in-all, I'd say it was a fairly mild/moderate vindaloo (what you'd get here around the 3rd time you asked for a really hot vindaloo at the same restaurant in as many weeks so they didn't forget you).  Next time I think I'll try 8 tsp of chilli powder instead, or add more fresh chillies.  I don't think the paste could handle more than most of two chopped fresh chillies though.  Each of these was about 4" long.  I'm not sure how the consistency of the paste would be with the additional chilli powder either.  I guess it's just a feel thing so that it turns out the right consistency.

Hope this helps someone.

Cheers,

ast

BTW, still frustrated with the pictures, but at least these are better.  It's a little tricky to take pictures and cook at the same time without messing either of them up, don't you think?  I guess this just takes practice too--or an assistant. :)
Title: Re: Vindaloo Experiment #1 (Illustrated)
Post by: Bobby Bhuna on January 03, 2008, 02:34 PM
I want it!!! :(
Title: Re: Vindaloo Experiment #1 (Illustrated)
Post by: Yousef on January 03, 2008, 02:41 PM
Can i say they are some of the best pictures in terms of quality i have seen on the website.
What camera are you using i must get one immediatly.

Curry looks superb by the way.

Stew 8)
Title: Re: Vindaloo Experiment #1 (Illustrated)
Post by: ast on January 03, 2008, 02:43 PM
I want it!!! :(

Too late!!! Already gone! :D

BTW, I forgot to say thanks to Gary (parker21) for posting the Rajver recipe/method in the first place.  Cheers, mate.
Title: Re: Vindaloo Experiment #1 (Illustrated)
Post by: ast on January 03, 2008, 02:54 PM
Can i say they are some of the best pictures in terms of quality i have seen on the website.
What camera are you using i must get one immediatly.

Thanks for that.

These were taken with my Canon 300D and the Canon 35mm f/2.0 prime lens.  I had it set to aperture priority and needed to use f/2.0 for most of the shots because I didn't want to use the flash (I hate the one on the camera, and I haven't splashed out for the proper bounce flash yet--probably wouldn't have worked with the range hood in the way anyway).  ISO was set to 400 with a few shots adjusting the exposure down a step or two.  WB was set to Fluro lighting.

I really needed more light and about f/8 or f/11, but I couldn't get clear pictures with the default shutter speed.  That's why parts of the pans, etc. are in focus and others are not.  I was also quite close to the pans so that they'd fill the frame, meaning that your focal length is going to be pretty precise on your focal point.

When we get around to redoing the kitchen, I'm going to put in better lighting.  What's here is a bit crap, and not designed for tall people.  I can't even stand at the sink without my head creating a shadow where I'm trying to work!  >:(

Curry looks superb by the way.

Cheers.  Mighty tasty too! :)
Title: Re: Vindaloo Experiment #1 (Illustrated)
Post by: parker21 on January 03, 2008, 02:56 PM
hi ast you must have known
just logged on and read your posting very good and i am pleased that peeps are getting the results using the method i posted. what i was going to say was rather than putting more chilli powder in change to a really hot one like TRS extra hot chilli powder or ask in a local asian store.or fry a couple of really hot chillies in the oil and sauce then remove,i would go for green chillies though as i think the reds tend to be bittererer.oops!
well done again with the pictures. would love to post something but abit useless at things like that at mo. and i am on stupid dialup a the mo also. but just waiting for broadband modem to turn up so maybe soon.

keep up the good work ast

regards
gary
Title: Re: Vindaloo Experiment #1 (Illustrated)
Post by: Curry King on January 03, 2008, 03:30 PM
Amazing pictures Ast thanks for sharing them  8)

Title: Re: Vindaloo Experiment #1 (Illustrated)
Post by: ast on January 03, 2008, 04:27 PM
hi ast you must have known
just logged on and read your posting very good and i am pleased that peeps are getting the results using the method i posted. what i was going to say was rather than putting more chilli powder in change to a really hot one like TRS extra hot chilli powder or ask in a local asian store.or fry a couple of really hot chillies in the oil and sauce then remove,i would go for green chillies though as i think the reds tend to be bittererer.oops!
well done again with the pictures. would love to post something but abit useless at things like that at mo. and i am on stupid dialup a the mo also. but just waiting for broadband modem to turn up so maybe soon.

keep up the good work ast

regards
gary

Thanks Gary.

I need to do a proper shopping trip to an Indian Grocer in the near future.  I'll have a look out for the TRS extra hot powder.  I'd also been thinking of making an Habanero paste to add, or throwing in some of any one of the really hot chilli sauces I have just to see what would happen.    Could be interesting, or it could kill me. ;)

I've seen people fry the chillies in oil before to make chilli oil (and then eaten the resulting dishes--not Indian though), but I always want to cry when they throw them in the bin afterwards.  Still, if you want a subtle and smooth chilli taste, it's the way to go.  Might be good to make a big batch to have on hand.  Could also be interesting to use chilli oil for the curries as you suggest, but in addition to any "normal" fiery ingredients.

Maybe there will be additional experiments after all!  ;D

Bummer about the dialup.
Title: Re: Vindaloo Experiment #1 (Illustrated) quasi-phall?
Post by: ast on January 06, 2008, 12:36 PM
Had to cook the remainder of my batch this morning so it wouldn't go bad.  I wanted to see if I could duplicate (or come pretty close) to the results from last time.  I think it was ok, and I'm not 100% sure if this is really a phall or a hot vindaloo, because I only tasted a bit of it when I was cooking.

This time, I used my 1/4 cup measure and covered the bottom of it with garlic granules and added roughly 40ml of oil so it wasn't quite full.  I also changed the spice mix slightly based on what I had left in the cabinet.  Once I eat the finished curry (which, unfortunately will need to be frozen/thawed first), I'll have a better judge of how hot it was.  From the cook's taste I had, it might end up being a low-end phall, but it didn't seem as hot as the one I had in London (which was 2 years ago, so my memory may be a little off too...)

Revised Spice Mix

I then made it into a paste using 30-50ml of curry base and continued to make as above.  Here's some pictures of the missing steps too.

(http://atownley.org/images/cooking/curry_exp1/roasting_garlic_2008-01-06_AST.jpg)
Roasting Garlic Granules in Oil

(http://atownley.org/images/cooking/curry_exp1/frying_paste_2008-01-06_AST.jpg)
Frying Curry Paste

I think there was a little more base/spice mix this time since I didn't have so many teaspoons of spices, therefore it's a little thinner than last time.

(http://atownley.org/images/cooking/curry_exp1/base_added_2008-01-06_AST.jpg)
Base Added to Curry Paste

I didn't calculate quite right, and I only had about 350ml of base left to make this dish.  This may have served to throw some of the other proportions off too, but I think it still tasted good.

(http://atownley.org/images/cooking/curry_exp1/phall_1st_reduction_2008-01-06_AST.jpg)
Phall at 1st Reduction

This is the Phall just before I added the meat.  Still a bit thin, but was guessing as to how long it would take to heat the meat and thicken to the proper consistency.

(http://atownley.org/images/cooking/curry_exp1/finished_phall_2008-01-06_AST.jpg)
Finished Phall in the Pan

(http://atownley.org/images/cooking/curry_exp1/packaged_phall_rice_2008-01-06_AST.jpg)
Phall and Rice Packaged for Freezing

Note that my rice is suffering from my experiment that I posted in my pilau rice recipe thread.  You can read more about it over there:  http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,2233.msg19245.html#msg19245 if you want to have a giggle.

The final verdict is that I think this is certainly the way to prepare the finished curry, so the next experiment will be to use a different base and this technique to see what happens.  I'll post experiment #2 in the next couple of weeks when I'm making a new batch of base.
Title: Re: Vindaloo Experiment #1 (Illustrated)
Post by: haldi on January 06, 2008, 12:55 PM
Hi AST
      Like everyone said:- Brilliant photos!
Boy, you sure like your curries hot
I like them hot, but not THAT hot!!
Thanks for the post
I put chilli sauce on nearly every meal
I use one, the other or both of these
Anyone else tried them?
Title: Re: Vindaloo Experiment #1 (Illustrated)
Post by: mike travis on January 06, 2008, 04:15 PM
Superb posts and amazing pictures. A firery red vindaloo  :o . well done   ;)
Title: Re: Vindaloo Experiment #1 (Illustrated)
Post by: ast on January 06, 2008, 08:21 PM
Hi AST
      Like everyone said:- Brilliant photos!
Boy, you sure like your curries hot
I like them hot, but not THAT hot!!
Thanks for the post
I put chilli sauce on nearly every meal
I use one, the other or both of these
Anyone else tried them?

Thanks Haldi.

For my curries (Indian, South African and Thai, anyway), I try and live by the "If you're not sweating, you're not eating" mantra.  Same goes for pretty much most of the other kinds of Thai food I eat--except the soups:  I like those about medium hot.

Funnily enough, I don't use hot sauce all that much.  I put it in a few dishes I make, and I'll occasionally get out the Tiger Sauce or Huy Font Sriracha "Rooster" sauce for the 2nd or 3rd round of leftover roasts of various sorts.  It's also good on fried potatoes.

I use Green and Red Tabasco sauce in my BBQ sauce and a couple of Cajun dishes I make (along with some Cayenne pepper and medium chilli powder).  I nearly always add some kind of Habanero sauce to salsa (store bought or home-made) and when I eat Mexican food out in the US (Mexican here is terrible...).  I've tried and like (in no particular order) Melinda's Extra Hot Sauce, Tropical Pepper Co's XXXXTRA Hot Habanero Sauce and El Yucateco's Chile Habanero Hot Sauce.  I'll put between 1/4 to a half a bottle into a session of salsa eating, so they don't last long! :D  I also have some Crystal Classic Habanero Sauce, but I haven't tried it yet.

A friend of mine used to be into hot sauces and so I've tried some of them like After Death and some of them I don't even remember.  I think a couple of them came up on the "hottest sauces" thread, but that was about 8-10 years ago now.

I've seen the one on the right, but never tried either of them.
Title: Re: Vindaloo Experiment #1 (Illustrated)
Post by: Secret Santa on January 07, 2008, 09:22 PM
Lovely pics ast.

Am skimming at the moment so will read in deatail tomorrow. I dunno, your confetti-rice could become the next big thing in BIR cuisine :)
Title: Re: Vindaloo Experiment #1 (Illustrated)
Post by: Secret Santa on January 07, 2008, 09:25 PM
My current favorite slop it on everthing suace is Maggi chilli/garlic sauce. It's utterly wimpish in the chilli department, but it's sweetish and very garlicky...mmmm!
Title: Re: Vindaloo Experiment #1 (Illustrated)
Post by: JerryM on January 11, 2008, 04:44 PM
Ast, it's a brilliant post many thanks.

what garam masala mix did you use. i am trying to get one where no one spice stands out.

i to favour the KD base (but 2 tins toms and no turmeric). i think your spot on in that the missing ingredient is the cooking technique. Just like you i use a frying pan on med/high, add a little oil when the pans hot, add the base, then a simple spice mix aimed at madras (2tsp paprika, 1/2 tsp chillie, 1 tsp salt, 1 1/2 tsp coriander, 1 tsp cumin). I stir/fry the base until the spice mix is mixed in (something like 30secs moving the pan away to control the heat). I then add a little garam, stir in and serve.

I am almost there on taste. Trouble is although I?ve tried a few garam mixes I can?t get one where no spice stands out.
Title: Re: Vindaloo Experiment #1 (Illustrated)
Post by: ast on January 11, 2008, 10:29 PM
what garam masala mix did you use.

Nothing very fancy at the moment, Jerry.  Just the Swartz/McCormic bog-standard one.  However, I did pick up some Fiddes Payne a couple of weeks ago, but I haven't tried it yet.  Seems to have a bit more cloves in it from the smell (personally, I think it smells much richer/better), but I've yet to try it yet.  However, that's the only one left in the house, so I'll be using it for the next experiment.  Probably too many variables with a new base, but I don't have a whole lot of choice.  I didn't time my spice quantity vs. my base quantity very well for completely controlled and scientific-like experiments, it would seem. :(

Interesting that you don't like turmeric.  I've never really noticed a taste from it before--certainly not by the time it gets to the finished curry!  Must be all those chillies... ;D

Thanks for the positive feedback.

Cheers,

ast
Title: Re: Vindaloo Experiment #1 (Illustrated)
Post by: JerryM on January 12, 2008, 09:46 AM
thanks Ast. just for info i make my own garam based around KD. I've got to the point where I've changed cinnamon to casia bark, introduced star anise and cut the cummin to 1/2 the coriander. all giving major improvement. i suspect it's the black cardamon that's overpowering and going to cut it out on my next go.
Title: Re: Vindaloo Experiment #1 (Illustrated)
Post by: extrahotchillie on January 12, 2008, 10:43 AM
One of the most interesting posts I have read on this forum; great pictures, I will be trying this one for sure.
Title: Re: Vindaloo Experiment #1 (Illustrated)
Post by: ast on January 27, 2008, 08:48 PM
I just finished eating this curry (reheated in the microwave), and I'm pleased to say, I think what I'm doing now is better than this one was.  It wasn't bad, but it didn't seem to have the same depth of flavor as the last few that I made using Haldi's spice mix.  Of course, maybe it was the base too, as this was the KD base which doesn't have as much depth as the Saffron one.

One thing I did notice, however, was that I think the KD base makes smoother curries than the Saffron base.  I wonder why this might be?  Perhaps the potatoes or the carrot?  I blended the Saffron base more than I did the KD one, so they should've, in theory, turned out quite close.

I *think* I cooked them to about the same consistency, but maybe, as CA suggests, I'm cooking them a bit too long at the moment.  That would do in the texture as well.

I'll pay more attention the next time I make a batch of base (which will be quite soon since I've only enough for one more curry).  Not sure what it'll be yet though.

Taste-wise, I think this one was a tad too salty too.

I think the real conclusion of this experiment was the difference in taste the cooking techniques made using exactly the same inputs.  It was certainly a significant step in my curry making, and I thank all of you for your insights and feedback.

Cheers,

ast
Title: Re: Vindaloo Experiment #1 (Illustrated)
Post by: SnS on January 27, 2008, 09:34 PM
One thing I did notice, however, was that I think the KD base makes smoother curries than the Saffron base.  I wonder why this might be?  Perhaps the potatoes or the carrot?  I blended the Saffron base more than I did the KD one, so they should've, in theory, turned out quite close.

Hi Ast

Interesting about the smoothness.

Correct me if I'm wrong Ast, but aren't you now adding chopped onion at the start of the Vindaloo curry .. whereas when you made this before with KD base,(ie: the one you mention above) you didn't add onion ??

Regards

SnS  ;D

ps: I can't imagine it is attributed to either the carrot or the potato.
Title: Re: Vindaloo Experiment #1 (Illustrated)
Post by: Chris303 on February 13, 2008, 03:09 PM
Hi. Nice.

Did the redness come from the particular base you used or from the particular masala?
Title: Re: Vindaloo Experiment #1 (Illustrated)
Post by: ast on February 13, 2008, 10:51 PM
Interesting about the smoothness.

Correct me if I'm wrong Ast, but aren't you now adding chopped onion at the start of the Vindaloo curry .. whereas when you made this before with KD base,(ie: the one you mention above) you didn't add onion ??
...

ps: I can't imagine it is attributed to either the carrot or the potato.

Hi SnS.  Not sure how I missed this, but I didn't see your reply until now.  Only have a few minutes, but, yes, you're right about the onion.  Still, the smoothness I was talking about was more to do with the overall texture rather than anything I would normally attribute to the chopped onions.

I'd have to check the dates vs. the posts in the Saffron thread, but this was also after I'd started using the frozen Saffron base (I think) and hadn't yet tried re-boiling it.  Lots of other weirdness going on around that time (potentially over-cooking, base not behaving due to freezing, etc.), so may have been related.

It may have been just one of those weird planetary alignment sort of things... ???

Hi. Nice.

Did the redness come from the particular base you used or from the particular masala?

Hi Chris,

I think it was down more to the abundance of volume of chilli powder that gave it the color than anything else.  The base (plain KD) was sorta orange-ish (which you can see in the pictures, I think), but the spice paste is a deep, dark red.

Since I've changed to using Natco or East End (can't remember which at the moment) extra hot chilli powder, they aren't quite the same color as this set were.  Bear in mind, however, that this was also with a different base, so it could be a combination of the two.

Hope this helps.  Gotta get back to work... :(

Cheers,

ast