Is this the exact same base they use in the restaurant just scaled down? Out of interest how did your madras compare to one you have had from the restaurant?
Thanks
Are the chef`s aware that you are a member of cr0 and what we are about? I think CA was asking if you could try to get them on board? Did you have any joy with this, or do you think it`s best to take it one step at a time? After all they don't have much to gain by helping us.
Will you be trying the gravy recipe?
Just tried it now. Good solid results. A good standard base for sure.
Hi sns, ;) It is down on my "to do list" {which gets bigger every day}. If we don't try it, all you work will have been for nothing. If Raj can visit you and cook a curry in your home with your kitchen equipment then I would say you have cracked it my friend......mike
Just tried it now. Good solid results. A good standard base for sure.
Crikey Bobby - that was quick.
Did you make the Madras as well as the gravy? Do you reckon it's as good as BIR ... smell and taste?
Notice - no use of garam masala.
Best regards
SnS ;D
I should have mentioned that I scaled down 50% last night when I made this base. I have never found a problem scaling down bases, I'm just more careful about measurements.
Actually SnS, that raises an interesting point. Can you and/or Bobby give an approximate indication of
a) the size of pot you need to cook the base from start to finish, and
b) approximately how much base this makes?
Thanks in advance,
ast
I whipped up a quick prawn madras using 2 ladles (200 ml) of sauce and I've got tell you ... it was really great.Hi SnS
SnS ;D
Actually SnS, that raises an interesting point. Can you and/or Bobby give an approximate indication of
a) the size of pot you need to cook the base from start to finish, and
b) approximately how much base this makes?
Thanks in advance,
ast
Hi Ast
Makes about 4 litres of gravy. The rate at which you simmer/boil the ingredients will have some bearing on how much you end up with of course.
My pot is 7.5 litres and it fits very comfortably in this - see photo on original post.
Regards
SnS ;D
Smokenspices, a great report on a absolutely standard base recipe and follow up prawn madras.
I don't need to make this to know it will not produce what I need from a BIR curry. So where the heck am I going wrong?
and over time our taste does become dulled. I can now nibble on fresh red habeneros and I often complain that a restaurant vindaloo is too mild
I whipped up a quick prawn madras using 2 ladles (200 ml) of sauce and I've got tell you ... it was really great.Hi SnS
SnS ;D
I whipped up a quick prawn madras using 2 ladles (200 ml) of sauce and I've got tell you ... it was really great.Hi SnS
SnS ;D
Thanks for the post
I can't remember if you said, but is the madras recipe from this restaurant too?
One thing I noticed is that I struggled to reclaim the oil at the end. I think maybe I scooped some off with the scum. Any suggestions to the cause of and solution to the problem?
I have been meaning to make a new batch of sauce for a while now, so i am going to give this a try today, cant wait mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ;D
BTW sns do you recommend Saffron in Lincoln? As we are there in Feb for a couple of days and could do with a good curry while we are there ;)
SLIPPERZ :)
The cooking process happens exactly as described here even with the scum coming to the surface towards the end of the cooking process.
I had to scrap off half a pint of frothy curry sauce.
Hi Stew.Hi Secret Santa. I'm new to all this base sauce cooking, but I made it last night and it isn't spicy at all. It tastes quite bland if anything. Maybe you used spicy paprika?
No, I used deggi mirch as per the recipe. Like I say this is hot stuff in the quantity used, well over the top. Now if I had used ordinary paprika well, that might have been an improvement. Too late now though.
Maybe you used spicy paprika?
has anyone spooned out the oil or do I just leave it in?
SLIPPERZ ;D
has anyone spooned out the oil or do I just leave it in?
SLIPPERZ ;D
You spoon it out and use it to make the finished curry with. I'm intrigued as to how you got it to separate though. There's no way if you keep to the suggested cooking times that you could get the oil to separate from the base.
And when I tasted the finished product the chilli caught the back of my throat. In my opinion the base shouldn't have any chilli in it at all and the deggi mirch is pretty strong.
BTW, all this namby-pamby spooning off of the froth, what's that all that about? Taste it, it isn't in any way unpleasant. I just mix it back into the base and it makes no difference.
My oil didn't separate either and I know from experience that this is caused by the use of too much powdered spice. So knowing that, I spooned as much of the oil off as I could just before I blended it.
There is no doubt this base sauce is from a real takeaway
has anyone spooned out the oil or do I just leave it in?
SLIPPERZ ;D
You spoon it out and use it to make the finished curry with. I'm intrigued as to how you got it to separate though. There's no way if you keep to the suggested cooking times that you could get the oil to separate from the base.
I followed everything exactly and the oil just rose to the top of the sauce!!
I am a little confused as sns did not mention skimming off oil and using it for the curry itself?
From SS's comments, I did some checking on the Deggi Mirch Paprika. According to this link here (http://www.theasiancookshop.co.uk/deggi-mirch-kashmiri-red-chilli-powder-blend-100g-by-mdh-859-p.asp (http://www.theasiancookshop.co.uk/deggi-mirch-kashmiri-red-chilli-powder-blend-100g-by-mdh-859-p.asp)) it classifies it as "mild-hot" (whatever that means). Maybe that's the issue. I don't think I have anything other than hot paprika in the house (and maybe not in that quantity, either now that I think about it), so I'm curious if it would be similar to this.
From the photos, Stew seems to have used regular paprika, but I think SnS's probably right about the oil pulling out most of whatever spice would be there. Except for some that would stick to some of the small base bits, I'd think most of it would end up in suspension in the denser liquid. I'd expect it would provide some flavor, but would then be mostly removed with the oil. In doing the KD base, I've never, ever removed any oil from it, but given that this has over 4x as much oil, I'm guessing that I'll be wanting to remove it to somewhere safe. :)
SnS: A couple of more questions if you don't mind (I'm typing this up so I can put it with the rest of my recipes for curry and anxious to try it ASAP):
- Q1: You're always simmering uncovered when making the base, right?
- Q2: How much prawns/meat would you say you should add when making the madras? I can guess based on other recipes, but I was just wondering what you'd recommend.
Cheers,
ast
The Saffron uses 9 king/Tiger prawns per serving, so a goood handful of meat or standard prawns would be about right.
if SnS says its from a pucker, high quality BIR restaurant/takeway, then it most certainly is!
It had a sour taste and that was after I added 2 tsp sugar to try to compensate. I found this strange as the base was subtly sweet so I can only think it was the tomato puree...it had a sort of rawness to it as if the spices had refused to be absorbed or something
This sounds to me like a classic case of burning the garlic or spices
Honestly CA do you think I would make such a rookie mistake?...I didn't add any garlic or ginger at the frying stage because the recipe didn't say to do so (does it?)
if SnS says its from a pucker, high quality BIR restaurant/takeway, then it most certainly is!
I don't think anyone would argue otherwise. However I have made it exactly as the recipe (less one carrot) and I'm not that impressed. However I still have to make the madras so I'll reserve final judgement until then.
We had this Wednesday night and we are having it again tonight ;D
Bloody lovely.
Bring it on :P
SLIPPERZ :)
We had this Wednesday night and we are having it again tonight ;D
Bloody lovely.
Bring it on :P
SLIPPERZ :)
Nice to hear it matey. Perhaps you may let SS into your secret !!!! ;)
The Saffron uses 9 king/Tiger prawns per serving, so a goood handful of meat or standard prawns would be about right.
Thems not King/Tiger Prawns (9 per serving! :o), thems shrimps!...
....THESE are King Prawns: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,2217.msg18757.html#msg18757 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,2217.msg18757.html#msg18757)
Get 9 of THOSE per serving and you'd be laughing! ;D ;)
Hi SnS
I have never come across this paprika (deghi mirch)
Is ordinairy Paprika totally different?
When I first started collecting recipes from takeaways/restaurants, I had a chef tell me how important the "paprika" was to his curry gravy
I always thought it was just ordinairy paprika, but maybe it was this stuff
We had a thread on this site about paprika
There was some discussion over a "smoked" paprika that's available
I'm going searching tomorrow for this deghi mirch
You've got me very curious, it's certainly something I've never tried
I think you said that they DO NOT use reclaimed oil at this restaurant SnS? Or did you?
I think more oil will also rise to the surface the longer you cook it for.
I find a carrots add to the colour, sweetness, flavour and consistency SS.
Just a couple of questions please:
- what do you mean by "salad potatoes"?
- so this is an exact half-scale version of what the restaurant does is it? If so, have the cooking times also been varied accordingly?
- A 3kW burner is not very powerful at all. It's akin to a domestic hob. Is this right do you think? :-\
Thanks for your great efforts and great post 8)
8 to 10 medium size cooking onions
1 large carrot
1 green pepper
4 salad potatoes (peeled)
2 medium tomatoes
Chop roughly and add to large cooking pot
Add:-
2 cups (500 ml) of fresh vegetable oil
2 tbsp (30 g) garlic/ginger puree
1 tbsp (15 g) salt
enough water to cover all the ingredients
Cover and bring to boil. Simmer for about 40 minutes stirring occasionally.
Add:-
Half a tin (200 g) of chopped plum tomatoes (Italian Napolina)
25 ml cumin powder (5 tsp)
25 ml coriander powder (5 tsp)
25 ml turmeric powder (5 tsp)
25 ml paprika (deghi mirch) (5 tsp)
Cook for another 10 minutes.
Remove from heat and blend for at least 5 minutes until very smooth.
Add 2 pints of water. The gravy will now resemble a very thin soup.
Bring to boil. Simmer uncovered for about 20-30 minutes stirring occasionally. Remove any scum forming on the surface. When the oil separates the gravy is complete.
Please note that the measured spices should be in ml not grams.
If you have used grams (as shown in the original recipe) there will be approximately 1.5 to 2 x times as much spice in the gravy than is required. :o
25 ml is 5 teaspoons
Really sorry Secret Santa - you were right - too much spice. However, how it still produced good results (in nearly all cases) is obviously something to look at (CA) - strange eh??
Admin , would you please edit the orginal recipe for me please (to stop further mistakes).
Regards
SnS ;D
SS, I don't think your point is clear....... do you mean that it should be 5 tsp of each spice rathern that each being specifically weighed out at 25g ? .... which I assume works out much more than 5 tsp ?
Please note that the measured spices should be in ml not grams.
If you have used grams (as shown in the original recipe) there will be approximately 1.5 to 2 x times as much spice in the gravy than is required. :o
25 ml is 5 teaspoons
Really sorry Secret Santa - you were right - too much spice. However, how it still produced good results (in nearly all cases) is obviously something to look at (CA) - strange eh??
Admin , would you please edit the orginal recipe for me please (to stop further mistakes).
Regards
SnS ;D
SS, I don't think your point is clear....... do you mean that it should be 5 tsp of each spice rathern that each being specifically weighed out at 25g ? .... which I assume works out much more than 5 tsp ?
Current plan is to make this tomorrow. One final clarification please: your 8-10 onions should be about 2kg right? This would jive with CA's approx 200g representative "medium" onion in the cr0b1 recipe.
I've just weighed a typical unpeeled cooking onion (just purchased at Sainsbury) of about the same size (volume cc's) they used and it is 140 GRAMS (I don't know the volume HAHA). So based on this, 8 - 10 (before peeling) will be no more than 1.5 kg.
Also at Sainsbury are the salad potatoes "Charlotte" (look a bit like large new potatoes but oval). An average size Charlotte spud weighs in at only 80 grams. :-*
Hi SnS,
Thanks for all the info (plus the masses of each of the powders). I know it's kinda splitting hairs, but I was trying to figure out how much to scale stuff if I wanted to use 1kg of onions. I was just about ready to halve things, but it's a good thing I didn't. :) Not sure yet if I'm going to throw in an extra couple of onions to get it in the 1.1-1.5kg range or just go with 1kg and see what happens. I think it'll kinda depend on what I feel like tomorrow.
Thanks again. I'm really looking forward to tasting the result!
Cheers,
ast
Unfortunately I had made the base and curry before the ingredient quantities were revised.
I don't know how much of a difference it would make
I followed the instructions exactly and found it was 2 litres of water required for the initial boil,the onions weighed 2 kg, and I ended up with 4.5 litres of base
The final curry was the colour expected
The curry was a different recipe for me
I have never done one with this "cooking half an onion first"
I used prawns for the curry and it was completely eaten
I can't totally judge what I got (because of the spice changes) but have you remade the whole thing from scratch and got an exact result?
I think you could get very different results from how long you cook the onions
Mine seemed to cook very quickly, I might have slightly overdone them
Thanks a lot for the recipe
i used this base sauce with darth's madras main it was good as any take out if not better!...
i used this base sauce with darth's madras main it was good as any take out if not better!...
Hi UB
Great to hear .. another tick in the box.
Was that with the corrected spice quantity? Did you take note of the weight of onions (peeled) you used?
Regards
SnS ;D
i used this base sauce with darth's madras main it was good as any take out if not better!...
Hi UB
Great to hear .. another tick in the box.
Was that with the corrected spice quantity? Did you take note of the weight of onions (peeled) you used?
Regards
SnS ;D
to the letter really. 8 medium onions only needed about 1 pint of water afterall
I used 1.25kg of onions (10x British cooking onions, unpeeled weight) and Charlotte potatoes that are readily available from Tesco.
Any homemade garlic in oil not frozen should be refrigerated and used within 1 week. To store chopped garlic indefinitely in a refrigerator, the garlic should be in a strong vinegar.
Hi ast,
Excellent post with great pics again.
Can i suggest you try this recipe next - Chicken Tikka Massala http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=539.0
We tried this the other night using chicken cooked from the 'chicken tikka better than a restaurant' post and made the Chicken Tikka Massala , absolutely first class.
Stew 8)
Great photos (again) AST 8)
Would you have any photos of your dishes that you could share with us, please, Jeth.....JEERA? ;)
...except with a camera phone, bad lighting and no talent ;-)
That last picture is of you thumbing a lift to a real curry house then? Most definitely done that!
Bigger pot next time eh ?? (one with a plimsoll line)
Bigger pot next time eh ?? (one with a plimsoll line)
I'm sure there's a joke there that I'm just not getting. What's plimsoll? Google's giving me odd answers...
Bigger pot next time eh ?? (one with a plimsoll line)
I'm sure there's a joke there that I'm just not getting. What's plimsoll? Google's giving me odd answers...
HaHaHa. As in plimsoll line (on the inside of your cooking pot) !
Might stop you adding water until the "floating" veg is covered ;D
Now why couldn't you have just said "waterline" ??? Damn posh technical jargon..... ;D
Why yes, now that you mention it, that would be quite handy!
Now why couldn't you have just said "waterline" ??? Damn posh technical jargon..... ;D
Why yes, now that you mention it, that would be quite handy!
I'm ex-Royal Navy Ast ! (no jokes about sailors please).
When I get round to "trimming up" the "final" recipe I think the amount of water added to the veg will be a measured volume.
BTW, as far as I'm aware, tomato puree comes in three strengths (?), I wonder how much each of these strengths affects the final curry taste. Which did you use for your vindaloo?
Speaking of the final version, you did catch my note about the amount of salt and to identify the mass of the garlic and ginger puree, right? I know it was sorta buried in all that exposition...
I used the French Exquisa potatoes because that's all the shop had that were classified as salad potatoes. They're a little smaller than the Charlotte ones, so I probably could've used 2x as much without problem, but they seem to be about right in terms of solidity and lack of disintegration into unidentifiable mush. With all the potatoes we get over here, I'd be surprised if I can't get Charlottes now that I know what to look for.
So what is the weight of 2 tablespoons of garlic/ginger puree anyway?
I used the French Exquisa potatoes because that's all the shop had that were classified as salad potatoes. They're a little smaller than the Charlotte ones, so I probably could've used 2x as much without problem, but they seem to be about right in terms of solidity and lack of disintegration into unidentifiable mush. With all the potatoes we get over here, I'd be surprised if I can't get Charlottes now that I know what to look for.
I know the Charlotte salad spuds are definately available in Tescos and Sainsbury stores.
Sorry about the carrot thing - didn't mean for you to poison your mother (Mother-in-law ::) ?)
I used 1.25kg of onions (10x British cooking onions, unpeeled weight) and Charlotte potatoes that are readily available from Tesco.
Hi Cheesyknob
Welcome to the forum and a great first post.
Be great to hear more feedback from other curries you try using the Saffron base gravy.
Glad you enjoyed it. :)
Can you just confirm that the weight of the 10 onions of 1.25 kg was UNPEELED and not peeled please. Just gathering relevant information for the final "trimmed up" recipe. Thanks.
Regards
SnS ;D
what can I say, probably the worst curry I have made in years
Made this base last night and followed the instructions to the letter, scooped off the froth and the oil floated exactly as stated. It did look like a thin soup and tasted quite bland. However, I cracked on with it and made the Madras as per the recipe; what can I say, probably the worst curry I have made in years for me this is not as good as Kris Dhillon's (curry secret) base which I feel I surpassed years ago (although KD's base was a great starting point).
AS far as I am concerned the best base to date is ifinforu's (A great curry base recipe)I get superb results every time.
I thank you for the recipe and you can't really comment unless you make the effort and try it, as I did. If others on this site are happy with this recipe then I am pleased for them, thats what makes this site great, helping oneanother.
Curry on
EHC
What I can't understand is how there are now 2 very negative reports .. and yet there are 11 favourable reports
But this Saffron recipe is very welcome, thanks
And I will be making it again
I would love other curry recipes to go with it
It definitely needs it's own recipes
Do you think you can get any more?
Sorry if I sounded negative, trust me I didn't mean it to come across that way. I was definitely going to make another curry out the base and add more garlic, ginger and increase the spice quantity to the final dish but alas she's gone and launched it.
I'll go lurk for a while. ;)
I am going back to ifindforu's base.
Looking good this has to be the next base I try now, great photos ;)
I'll go lurk for a while. ;)
You're probably joking, but don't do that AST. You've made some great and interesting posts to date; please continue to do so! :P
I would appreciate someone posting on this thread an accurate Madras recipe suitable for 200 ml of this particular gravy ... anyone up for it?
SnS, I'll be happy to post where I end up with what I'm doing now, but it isn't quite ready yet (going a bit backwards with the last try, unfortunately). Like you, I took onboard Jeera's comments, but I haven't yet added any garam masala. It'll probably be next week before I get back to the laboratory. :(
Of course, I suppose the key word here is "accurate"... ;D
Haldi,
You are my hero, i love these reports.
It just sounds so simple, no panic no fuss, just lovely curry everytime.
I am trying this one tonight using the safron base.
S
Ahh, I see. Would have been nice if you'd made that clear in your original post. One followed on from the other so it was a natural assumption that the madras recipe was from the restaurant too. So not only was I the guinea pig for the base as originally posted but I was misled into thinking the madras was a kosher restaurant recipe. Any other hidden gems that I should be aware of before I have another bash at it? :)
Secret Santa, can I ask you which curry base you normally use please?
I'm absolutely certain from experience that you can't.
One thing I will say is that along the way I've pretty much come to the conclusion that there is no right base because I can make any one into a decent BIR style curry.
You get yourself 40 odd years of general cooking experience and knowledge along with nigh on 30 years of trying to get the BIR smell and taste (at which I have admittedly failed), mix it liberally with an energetic and enquiring mind and voila, you have someone who can turn the curry equivalent of a pig's ear into the proverbial silk purse. No secrets!
I can make any one into a decent BIR style curry
I'm sure I'll be able to do that soon (have to arrange it with Raj), but what I wanted to do first was iron out the creases in the existing gravy recipe so that it was bulletproof and not open to mistakes being made (eg: amount of water added to "cover" the veg, etc, etc). Many don't realise that this was a prototype and much of what I wrote down was from observation, and by no means accurate (as you know, they don't measure ingredients using tspns or tbspns). To do this I've got to make another batch (as shown by the saffron) but this time measuring/recording all the ingredients and times EXACTLY.
Best Regards
SnS
I must admit I thought that the madras recipe was something the Saffron chefs showed you too
The fact it wasn't, actually encourages me
As I mentioned above, I made this yesterday and made it to the letter all with brand new fresh spices.
The base was very reminiscent of a very good KD version which I've had great success with in the past but with loads more depth and sweetness. I think the amount of salt in the watered down base was perfect too and it set things up for a promising final dish with no additional salt needed. I'm sure the paprika (not smoked version) is absolutely critical as I've have good results with Jaspers Munich base to - which was tremendous.
Anyway to the real test. I made 3 final chicken dishes - all bhoona type consistency.
Dish #1 - exactly as posted by SnS but omitted the chilli powder but used the 0.5 tsp of coriander/cumin/turmeric as indicated.
Result #1 - very very wonderful with hints/undertones of *the* taste. Verdict 90/100
Dish #2 - same as posted but with 0.25 tsp chilli powder, 0.75 tsp cumin/coriander/turmeric, tsp methi & tsp fresh coriander.
Result #2 - awesome taste. I may have been lucky that I hit the cooking sweet spot but this was BIR class whatever made the difference. Lovely sweet, spiced and huge depth. Verdict 97/100
Dish 3. as #2 but with tsp chilli powder and 1 tsp cumin/coriander/turmeric.
Result #3 - OK, good but overspiced (not in the hot way)and ultimately much like may of my previous attempts. Verdict 80/100
So all in all this is a classy piece of work and I'm 100% convinced this would be an awesome base to get slight modifications on the final dish - Per CA's recent suggestion. Next I will try #2 but with 0.25 tsp garamasala.
Well done SnS, mega mate.
PS. Ast the base and final looked exactly like yours - nice shots btw.
I really would like someone to come up with a really good accurate (prawn) Madras recipe for use the Saffron base though (Ast is in his curry laboratory soon .. so maybe we'll just have to wait for the Prof to post his results).
It seems that after freezing this base, the oil doesn't want to separate like it used too. I know I'm cooking it the same way as before, but I've tended to end up with a tad drier curries trying to wait for the oil to separate.
60ml lamb stock
I've no idea what they're called, but they look like this
Nice one AST .. great report. I'll probably try this over the weekend (maybe with prawns though).
QuoteIt seems that after freezing this base, the oil doesn't want to separate like it used too. I know I'm cooking it the same way as before, but I've tended to end up with a tad drier curries trying to wait for the oil to separate.
I have also noticed this. Perhaps this is why Raj reckoned the gravy is not as good after freezing it. I wonder what would happen if the gravy was brought back to the boil before using in the curry ?
Quote60ml lamb stock
How did you make this stock ?
QuoteI've no idea what they're called, but they look like this
They look like green Thai Dragon chillies (about 2-3 inches long (?) and 6 times hotter than Jalepeno). Did you also use the seeds ?
What ... no sooperpics ???
Have you tried a small bit of either ambchoor or tamarind?I used tamerind concentrate when I cooked a Pathia a few weeks back but I'm sure most BIR's use lemon juice. Amchoor (green mango powder) is on my shopping list, as I gather it has both a sweet and sour taste, maybe suitable for Pathia.
Apparently from what I've read, it's the membrane inside that has all the "power of the pepper" rather than the seeds. Still, I like the seeds...Yup it's the fleshy vein that holds the seeds (placenta) that is the hottest part, not the actual seeds as many think. I do prefer the seeds taken out though. Makes the curry a bit crunchy - particularly if the chilli pod contains many seeds.
Any preferences for what you want to see?Personally, just the finished article - but I suppose others would be interested in seeing pictures at the various stages.
From all of the observed reports as well as from some of the videos, the chefs generally dip the chefs spoon into the spice container and come out with an arc that doesn't seem to go past 1/3 to 1/2 of the whole spoon. Who knows what amount this is.That's why it was impossible to get the recipe measurements exact at my initial visit! ::)
QuoteHave you tried a small bit of either ambchoor or tamarind?I used tamerind concentrate when I cooked a Pathia a few weeks back but I'm sure most BIR's use lemon juice. Amchoor (green mango powder) is on my shopping list, as I gather it has both a sweet and sour taste, maybe suitable for Pathia.
QuoteFrom all of the observed reports as well as from some of the videos, the chefs generally dip the chefs spoon into the spice container and come out with an arc that doesn't seem to go past 1/3 to 1/2 of the whole spoon. Who knows what amount this is.That's why it was impossible to get the recipe measurements exact at my initial visit! ::)
I bought the amchoor (I've seen at least 7 different spellings of this, btw) for another recipe, but it doesn't use that much. The only pack they had was large enough that I'm trying to work out what else I can do with it so I can use it before the BBE date. From reading about it and its taste characteristics, I thought it might be an interesting taste with the prawns. On its own, it isn't bad, but only in small-ish quantities. I haven't actually used it yet, though.
think Robin Williams in Good Morning Vietnam
Still, I've never personally noticed much of a sour taste in my vindaloo.
smokenspices amchur is sour. Sour ya hear! When you get your pack of it dab your finger in and taste it...it's lovely but it's sour not sweet.
Still, I've never personally noticed much of a sour taste in my vindaloo.
Me either. It seriously winds me up when ppl put lemon or vinegar etc. into a vindaloo. I have never ever ever had a sour vindaloo. What part of the country is this normal in for god's sake?
Ohh..I take this curry lark far too seriously :)
You add lemon juice and sugar to make a pathia/patia. I usually use 1 1/2 tablespoons lemon juice to 2 tablespoons of sugar, it all depends on you personal taste as to how much of each ingredient you use. CQ
Still, I've never personally noticed much of a sour taste in my vindaloo.
Me either. It seriously winds me up when ppl put lemon or vinegar etc. into a vindaloo. I have never ever ever had a sour vindaloo. What part of the country is this normal in for god's sake?
Ohh..I take this curry lark far too seriously :)
Vindaloo traditionally uses pork and comes from Goa, Goa is a an ex Portuguese colony, Portuguese pork recipes include a lot of dishes with a vinegar base.
http://www.portuguese-recipes.com/Pork%20Recipes.htm (http://www.portuguese-recipes.com/Pork%20Recipes.htm)
An authentic Goan vindaloo recipe will use vinegar instead of water, some Birs (very few) try and keep the close to original taste rather than just upping the heat content of a madras style curry.
Thats why :)
Vindaloo traditionally uses pork
Goan vindaloo uses vinegar to cut through this fat as it cooks over a very long time
I took pictures but can't seem to upload them! :o
Hi Smokenspices,Thanks CQ, I always look forward to your posts
I will post the gravy that I use most of the time which replicates a good finished curry and also the recipe that I use, either later this evening when I have more time or tomorrow. CQ
The "conventional wisdom" seems to be that the curry base, once frozen, should be defrosted, re-blended and reheated, prior to reuse, to preseserve something like it's original texture and consistency.
Yes, I understand that SnS :)
But defrosting, reblending AND reheating is the conventional wisdom to preserve the....oh hell, I'm just repeating myself.... ;D
The "conventional wisdom" seems to be that the curry base, once frozen, should be defrosted, re-blended and reheated, prior to reuse, to preseserve something like it's original texture and consistency.Hi Cory. Thanks for that. I guess it's because I'm a newbie to all this, but I must've missed out on picking up that part of the "conventional wisdom" somewhere... ;) Where should I have looked that I obviously didn't to pick this up?
I don't think Ast re-blended it. Just reheated to get the oil to separate again.
Of course this would not be a problem for those who prefer to remove the oil before freezing the gravy.
I must've missed out on picking up that part of the "conventional wisdom" somewhere... ;) Where should I have looked that I obviously didn't to pick this up?
That's exactly right, SnS. Re-blending never occurred to me, and it would be a RPITA if you needed to do that every time you took the stuff out of the freezer.
Again, maybe it's just that I don't know what I'm talking about because I'm new at this, but to me, if the oil's required to make the base, then it's there for a reason and shouldn't be removed. If it is necessary to remove copious amounts of oil from a finished base, then, again, to me, it seems like that the initial amount of oil used should be reduced.
I also don't really recall any cries of "not enough oil" prompted by the pictures of the finished curries either.
I've seen similar sorts of things happening in many places on the site.
I fail to see what the overall benefit to removing the oil before freezing could possibly be
What am I missing here? ???
That's exactly right, SnS. Re-blending never occurred to me, and it would be a RPITA if you needed to do that every time you took the stuff out of the freezer.
Perhaps AST; I do as you did and simply reheat it :)
QuoteI also don't really recall any cries of "not enough oil" prompted by the pictures of the finished curries either.
To my mind, most pictures depict curries that are too dry and insufficiently oily (compared to a typical BIR curry that is)
QuoteI've seen similar sorts of things happening in many places on the site.
What do you mean AST? :-\
QuoteWhat am I missing here? ???
Nothing mate! Just a little patience and knowledge it seems! Stick with it! 8)
do you re-boil/re-simmer for a period of time, or do you just "warm" it? (Genuinely curious, not trying to antagonize...)
If anything, I'd say the sauce looks a bit thick and stodgey...maybe it's been cooked too long and has congealed?
To my mind, the sauce should be nicely flocculated and not congealed.
conventional wisdom
..but where does this "conventional wisdom" come from
...Have you been slumming it over at the other place CA?
Hi Haldi - Are you going to try this one?
Chicken or Prawn Patia
I always make a patia/pathia to a phal strength for my OH and use either scotch bonnet or dorset nega chillies when I can get hold of them.
Hi Smokenspices - The gravy that I have always used is quite basic and I feel because of this will accomodate any curry. Well here goes!
made this base last night. Forgot to add potato :-[ really pleased with the results. made a dhansak. best yet. Cheers for the info sns ;)
Now that photo uploading is sorted, here my pictures of the base at the three main stages.
This is my favourite base to date.
I assume photo 3 is with gravy "at rest" (oil has completely risen to surface).That's right SnS, if you look at the times on the images, you will see that it has been left for a couple of hours or so.
In Photo 2 the oil has started to separate with some froth, but is this still during the simmering stage (ie did the oil separate easily during simmering?).Right again, this is during the simmering stage and the oil did begin to separate with ease.
Did you have to remove any "scum"?Yes, lots 8) I even got the tiny scum remminants that I couldn't get with spoon with some kitchen roll before taking photo 3 ::) Well you have to make it presentable ;D
QuoteDid you have to remove any "scum"?Yes, lots 8) I even got the tiny scum remminants that I couldn't get with spoon with some kitchen roll before taking photo 3 ::) Well you have to make it presentable ;D
scum (like that thin layer of mucus you get on a cold cup of tea) should be remove as it can add bitterness to the gravy.Ah, I see. Well I removed some froth as well but not much. I had the recipe printed off so I stirred what I could back in but the re-offending froth just had to go :P
Great looking pics again BobbyCheers mate ;D
I might have missed a post or two in the thread but have you made a curry with the base yet?Yes, I made the Madras and it was great. I put so much chili in it I could barely eat it. I struggled but got it down, only to awake in the night and throw it back up lol. I think my stomach rejected that level of spice as toxic. Or, it could have been because I made it at 01:30 in the morning while totally p***d. Here it is - the curry from hell! (the weird dark green bits are a result of my frozen fresh coriander technique 8)) I didn't have any onions left because one of them I bought was bad, so in this curry the onion was omitted.
Bobby, was the "madras of death" also made with the original massive amounts of paprika in the base recipe? That might've contributed some to your plight too...No, I can't say the volume of Paprika was too high, I would have remembered. I assume from what you say a mistake was posted in the recipe that was later rectified?
Curry on, Wayne! ;DCurry on Ast! ;)
not bad for a drunken curry, I would eat it :PYou really shouldn't! That's the hottest curry I've ever been near. When I was wretching it back up a few hours later it made my eyes sting. That really was a case of better out than in 8)
No, I can't say the volume of Paprika was too high, I would have remembered. I assume from what you say a mistake was posted in the recipe that was later rectified?
I even got the tiny scum remminants that I couldn't get with spoon...
Yes Bobby. My original post for this recipe called for 25 grams of each of the main spices (including paprika). This should have been 25 ml (5 tsp).
What is it with you people and scum? Do you think there's this repugnant scum molecule hidden in every foodstuff that magically rises to the surface when boiled? The scum is totally inoffensive, if you don't believe me the next time you make a base leave all that horrible scum in and then tell me that it made a difference when you came to make your curry. It's namby-pambyism of the highest order.
Secret Santa, head of SLL (Scum Liberation League)
I don't need to make this to know it will not produce what I need from a BIR curry. So where the heck am I going wrong?
Other than that this base has a very unpleasant smell ...
I have to say I really didn't like it at all. It had a sour taste and that was after I added 2 tsp sugar to try to compensate ....
the importance of removing the scum (which comes from the onions)
Perhaps you'd better resign from the SLL and join us at FAGS
ps: SS - look up the definition of scum
Quotethe importance of removing the scum (which comes from the onions)
prove it.
QuotePerhaps you'd better resign from the SLL and join us at FAGS
I don't know whether to laugh or gird my loins (lamb loins of course)
Quoteps: SS - look up the definition of scum
why would I look it up? I happen to speak English!
I even got the tiny scum remminants that I couldn't get with spoon...
What is it with you people and scum? Do you think there's this repugnant scum molecule hidden in every foodstuff that magically rises to the surface when boiled? The scum is totally inoffensive, if you don't believe me the next time you make a base leave all that horrible scum in and then tell me that it made a difference when you came to make your curry. It's namby-pambyism of the highest order.
Secret Santa, head of SLL (Scum Liberation League)
but I take it on trust that generations of BIR chefs, who advocate taking the scum off, cannot all be wrong, unless you know better?.
SCUM (definition from Collins English Dictionary)
A layer of impure matter that forms on the surface of a liquid, often as the result of boiling or fermentation.
SCUM (definition from Collins English Dictionary)
A layer of impure matter that forms on the surface of a liquid, often as the result of boiling or fermentation.
Once again I ask, why would I look it up, I am English? I'm clearly missing the point here, aren't I?
Has anyone actually tasted the scum to see if it is actually bitter? :P
Oh sweeet jesus and haleluliah. We have a chemist on here at last. Would you care to enlighten us SnS as to how this H2SO4 gets produced? Perhaps a breakdown of the transition states that accompany this process. I'm all ears , really I am.
CA you really really really need to read what people post, really you do!
As far as this thread goes, I'd be inclined to do as the chef does if we wish to faithfully reproduce and comment upon HIS recipe.
But of course in the same vein you will now stop arguing about the reasons behind including a brand name curry powder in the Madras/generic base thread
Do I need to say more ::)
You know when I started out with the Chuckle Brothers' joke? Well apparently it isn't so much a joke as reality. Do I need to say more ::)
The chef SPECIFICALLY says to remove the scum, so we should SURELY remove the scum IF we wish to make HIS curry base the way HE makes it.
Can it really be that there are two members who dare to disagree with you...
The chef SPECIFICALLY says to remove the scum, so we should SURELY remove the scum IF we wish to make HIS curry base the way HE makes it.
I have an aunt who insists that the only way to make genuine felt is to wade up to your knees in stale piss, while bare legged you grind those sheep fibres into submission. The effectiveness of the method is indisputable being a traditional method going back to the 1400's at least, but you know what, I can make felt without the stale piss, and without the mind numbing drudgery of stomping it for hour upon hour.
There is no argument here, the scum is innocuous (ok in some limited circumstances it may not be) but in general it is an insignificant factor.
If you wish to promote the fiction that it makes a bit of difference to the finshed curry then so be it, but I suggest you ply your trade in that other well known forum where "if you say it's so, then it's so".
Only two? I must be slipping up somewhere then. :)
I have an aunt who insists....
If you wish to promote the fiction that it makes a bit of difference to the finshed curry then so be it
Yes, lots 8) I even got the tiny scum remminants that I couldn't get with spoon with some kitchen roll before taking photo 3 ::)Who'd have thought I'd be quoting myself? 8)
This thread is about a SPECIFIC curry base from a SPECIFIC chef in a SPECIFIC restaurant. The chef SPECIFICALLY says to remove the scum, so we should SURELY remove the scum IF we wish to make HIS curry base the way HE makes it. It's really rather obvious, SS, I should think? :-\CA - What a completely excellent use of upper case 8)
There is no argument here, the scum is innocuous (ok in some limited circumstances it may not be) but in general it is an insignificant factor.JUST SPOON OFF THE SCUM! :P
join us at FAGS (Federation Against Gravy Scum)And join you I have! Being in FAGS is just great 8)
Don't be a FAG real chefs stir it all in, including the oil :PCome on now!!! There's no need to bring sexuality into the discussion ;D
Great post, SnS, 8)
Nice, clear instructions and excellent (and helpful) photos.
I'll be trying this very soon....
Thanks for your excellent efforts; much appreciated! 8)
Just need your perfect Madras recipe to go with it.
...some of my own freestyle curries...
BTW SnS, did you ever give my vindaloo recipe (or even the Jalfrezi) that I use with this base a shot? If so, I'd be really interested to hear what you thought of it. I still haven't gotten a chance to vary either the amounts or the composition of the spice mix yet. I have tried it at both mild and madras strength though, and I thought it was still pretty good.
Does the sweet Paprika make much difference over the standard kind.
Also, it's easier for me to get Nicola salad potatoes. I guess your gonna say something like "the chef was very specific about the variety" but since they are similar salad potatoes do you think I can get away with them?
(I still have no conclusive information regarding Deghi Mirch. I gather it is made from a sweet, mild kasmiri chilli)
I'll let you into secret. The new recipe now says "salad potatoes" (no mention of Charlotte).
I'll let you into secret. The new recipe now says "salad potatoes" (no mention of Charlotte).
I'd be prepared to wager that you could use any potato and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.
Hi Ast
Used your Lamb Vindaloo recipe last weekend but without the Lamb and lamb stock (as I was using prawns). As far as I can recall, it was very hot and tasty, but to be honest we'd had a couple of bottles of wine (doing a bit of a Floyd, as you do when cooking) so I need to do it again when sober to make a better analysis.
As far as I can recall everything else was as per your recipe below (lamb bits omitted) and I also added a tsp of lemon juice.
[snip]
As I've now restocked the gravy freezer, I will be cooking your Vindaloo again this weekend (possibly without the wine!)
I'd be prepared to wager that you could use any potato and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.
(I still have no conclusive information regarding Deghi Mirch. I gather it is made from a sweet, mild kasmiri chilli)
Whatever it is I can assure you it's definitely not mild, well at least the MDH version isn't.
I wouldn't want to see the results of using a really floury potato...It would melt away to nothing and probably end up adding very little.
If you are using the MDH brand of Deghi Mirch and it is hot, then don't use this in the recipe - use Hungarian Paprika instead.
I wouldn't want to see the results of using a really floury potato...It would melt away to nothing and probably end up adding very little.
The problem with that agument is that the potato, whetever type it is, gets blitzed into non existence along with all the other ingredients. If you look at the majority of base sauce recipes they don't contain potato and I think this is another good argument for it not being neccessary. The only real effect the potato will have is to thicken up the sauce due to its starch content and that's just not required.
Possibly, SS, possibly... I'd originally intended to write more, but I guess there isn't much point. ;) Yes, it gets blitzed, but, while I haven't performed a side-by-side test, my guess is the type of thickening observed/tasted would be slightly different.
Personally, I'll stick with the semi-waxy salad potatoes for this recipe. ;D
You get yourself 40 odd years of general cooking experience and knowledge along with nigh on 30 years of trying to get the BIR smell and taste (at which I have admittedly failed), mix it liberally with an energetic and enquiring mind and voila, you have someone who can turn the curry equivalent of a pig's ear into the proverbial silk purse. No secrets!
Ast - I'll see you at London Olympics Curry Freestyle qualifiers. Bring your best game because my Bhundaloo's packin heat! 8) :o
Result- Not what my local BIR serves up but I think that was down to my playing with the Madras recipe to get it to 4 portions without actually putting 4X the spices in there.It was however very very very nice and I'm sure that once I get the correct amount of spices for the portions it will be spot on.
I think the moral of this story is don't think that every oil tastes the same when heated.
Thanks for the recipe smokenspices I'll certainly be making more of this. ;D ;D ;D
I used the original recipe,(just noticed there is a new improved one out)
Great pic SS, looks fantastic and I don't even like korma's 8)
The one thing that I dont quite understand is regarding the spices and the base. Are they simply added raw to the boiling liquid? With every other base ive tried they seem to be fried gently first, this seems a little different.
The one thing that I dont quite understand is regarding the spices and the base. Are they simply added raw to the boiling liquid? With every other base ive tried they seem to be fried gently first, this seems a little different.
Yes, in the base they are added exactly like you say.
Also, not all spices in all curries are fried first. Some are added without frying and at later stages.
SnS ;D
Hi vmix
Looking good so far .. need a bigger pot? ::)
I don't suppose for one moment the base taste will change noticeably whether the pepper is red, yellow, orange or green.
Look forward to seeing your final review (on the Saffron base gravy thread of course). ;)
Regards
SnS ;D
Well the base is complete and after a quick taste test nothing new really to report. Very nice consistency, but not huge hit of flavour which of course there isn't supposed to be in this recipe. If I get a chance today I will use to to make a jalfrezi and give an update then, For the time being I'm looking for empty water bottles so I can start freezing ;D
I think he said the plastic ones Chris
Hi Sns
Just made your curry base and a Chicken Madras (from your madras recipe). I have tried several of the bases here, but this is the best so far for me. many thanks!
Looking forward to trying the base with some other recipes now.
kind regards
Christo
I have tried several of the bases here, but this is the best so far for me
Without sounding like Secret Santa (sorry!)
Christo
upto putting the turmeric in i was sold on the taste. in the finished curry (made chris303 rogan josh) the turmeric was less of an issue but still did not sit well for me. i would reduce to 5ml (from 25ml) on my next go.
everything else was spot on and clearly an excellent base (background is KD, followed by parker21 - adopted norm, followed by development base). i particularly like the absence of chilli (can be added at cooking stage) and the high yield.
Overall with the turmeric reduced i would say 9/10.
Incidentally the only other change to KD was to x2 the tin of toms but i never got to thinking of other vegetables ie carrot, green pepper which deliver the next step up from KD.
i did have about 4.5l of the sauce and appreciate 5 tsp is not a lot. just a personal preference of what i will do when i cook the sauce next time (ie 1 tsp only).
everything else was spot on. many thanks for the post in the 1st place. it's a quality base no question.
On my next batch I'm going to try adding another carrot and green pepper
I couldn't get the oil to separate (even after boiling for 1 hour after blending)
Here's a possibility. Once I'm done cooking the base, I leave it on the hob (halogen) which still has a little residual heat to cool. This photo is of the finished base, at rest, on the hob, a couple of hours after I finished cooking.
not unlike the cr0 base in fact
I was going to be making ifindforu's
I was really trying to establish whether the spud had the potential to retain the oil during the cooking process.
I used Delaware or Nadine potatoes. I'm not sure which of the two they are. Both are standard, cheap, run-of-the-mill, readily available, white-skinned spuds. I'd be very surprised if BIRS use anything other than the cheapest spuds available that do the job.
It may therefore surprise you that both Raj and the head chef were very specific about using the salad type spud
Dare I suggest that this may be the reason the oil was adsorbed and your results were different.
If this was the case, then ultimately we can conclude that the variety or type of spud is all important
I can't really ask Raj why he thinks this is important. As you know, Chefs will quite often do something "just because" and they know it works but they don't actually know the answer to why it works.
But, to eliminate this possibility, I accept that I'd have to repeat it using a "salad type spud" (whatever that really is?). I'd also have to keep everything else exactly the same as before. I'm not sure I have the energy though and I'm really not that hung up about the oil rising to the surface.
The point is CA (as you have in the past promoted yourself), if you are to cook from a recipe then follow it to the letter ... otherwise the results may be different.
But, as I said, I'm not fussed about the oil not rising. I've seen it before (in spudless, capsicumless, tomatoeless, carrotless bases).
You, anyway, then stir it back in don't you?
Oil separation is an important indication (to me) that a particular stage in the cooking process has been reached
Without it, something has gone wrong
The truth is, I personally wouldn't be interested in such a pernickity recipe ::)
oil separation is all important but I do know that it is important in ensuring a fusion of spices/oil/other ingredients, particularly with Indian and Asian cookery.
oil separation is all important but I do know that it is important in ensuring a fusion of spices/oil/other ingredients, particularly with Indian and Asian cookery.
We're talking about the BASE here SnS, not the main dish where you're frying spices.
Yes, clearly it's the stage at which the oil separates. What does that infer (that's so important) in the curry base? Is it a good thing or a bad thing?
When cooking the base, Anam the "Head Chef" pointed out to me the subtle sheen caused by the breaking away of the oil from the liquid at the surface. This is an indication of a completed base (ie: turn off the heat).
I have therefore assumed that this is important. Perhaps they're wrong then?
How can you call it "pernickity". It's a damn site more simpler to produce than the KD base.
No, I'm not saying they are wrong SnS. I accept that this is the indicator they use (but a "subtle sheen" is a little different than swimming in oil, I'd suggest).
If you decide not to follow the recipe precisely .. which you have clearly not, then don't expect 100% copy written results (come on CA, you should know this already with your experience).
You're right SS. I'll tell the Saffron Restaurant chef's straight away...
I reckon I could make a bloody good fish curry with this base as it's more subtly flavoured and wouldn't overpower the flavour of the fish.
look like the incredible bulk for a week. ::)
anymore of that and I'll sit on yer knee...
or should I make one with salad spuds and one with starchy white potato - compare results
I obviously cannot say for sure but I can't see the addition / removal of spuds changing this base into one that everyone feels the "smell" and "taste" leap out from. My guess is that your time is better spent trying out some new bases.
What you got in mind? I'd be interested in removing the fresh tomato and reducing the oil content. My Saffron experiences have all turned out very very oily.
3) using Kasmiri Mirch insrtead of paprika (taste and colour).
The base was darker and redder upon cooling, freezing and defrosting (though it still nowhere near as red and oily as Bobby's)
I think the pic Bobby posted is with the oil still on top, which makes it look dark and red...mine looked that way yesterday but the base underneath was still the same burnished orange. :)
3) using Kasmiri Mirch insrtead of paprika (taste and colour).
You know SnS I'd have a lot more faith in your (Saffron's) recipes if you used what you put in your first post, i.e. degghi mirch (you know like I did), then move on to ordinary paprika etc.
I will revert back to waxy type (salad) spuds as I'm now convinced that this does influence the base viscosity which in turn prevents oil separation.
Results were a thicker gravy. Tasted sweeter and creamy
I'm sticking to the salad spuds (personal preference)
added 1 x red capsicum pepper
added 1 x carrot
replaced 25ml paprika with 25ml MDS Kashmiri Mirch
...I will revert back to waxy type (salad) spuds as I'm now convinced that this does influence the base viscosity which in turn prevents oil separation.
SnS ;D
concluded that the potato was the overriding factor
1) 3tsp of salt (as per the spec recipe - only used 1 tsp in the past)
There is a very fine line between a 'tasty curry soup' and a 'versatile curry base', and in my opinion (for what its worth), if the base tastes really nice (almost a curry sauce), then it is too rich and is not suitable as an 'all round' curry base.
matt,
interesting on the side dishes - i suspect your right.
mickdabass,
i spotted the desiree in ASDA today but alas no Romano - i think i can probably get from my local Asian store - is there much difference though
I was worried about the soup-like thicknessdon't be u need this thin soup-like consistency for the cooking as u end up otherwise adding water at the cooking stage.
I decided to stir it back in to the gravythis is where i have very set views - the reclaim is a must - with the oil still in the sauce the taste falls very short of what it tastes like with the oil reclaimed - obviously this depends on how much oil has been put in and i feel the max amount to stay in to be 150ml or thereabouts (in 4.5L finished volume).
IMO thats what its all about
Hi peeps,
just made the saffron base but the oil has not seperated anyone know why?
I mean,how hard can it be to produce a decent type restaurant curry!!!!!
It makes me envious when people on this forum who have been doing this for five minutes seem to hit it first time! :'(
:o It's quite unlike you to be so diplomatic SS! ;D
Sami,
you clearly know your stuff. i well like the pics.
in general for bases i've recently upped the garlic (x2) and find it better. i don't feel the ginger works the same though and would be careful not to increase further.
i too have wrestled with the need for the potato. in the end i think it's optional but find with this base i find it better with than without. i too now use normal potato.
i know that with this base it's important to get the oil to release as the base itself only needs to retain ~100ml of oil to get it tasting at it's best.
ps like your stove and surprised to see u don't use it to cook on.
I'm new here and have a query....can you point me in the right direction for recipes that will suit this base, for example bhuna, madras jalfrezi?
I whipped up a quick prawn madras using 2 ladles (200 ml) of sauce and I've got tell you ... it was really great.
Here is the Madras (for one). For two just double up on all ingredients etc....
Half cooking onion chopped finely
200 ml gravy
0.5 tsp coriander
0.5 tsp cumin
0.5 tsp turmeric
1 tsp chilli powder (or more if you're a chilli head)
2 tsp tomato puree
A little veg oil (2 tbsp)
Heat oil (medium heat) add onion. Fry onion until just starting to colour (about 5 minutes)
Add spices stirring continuously for 1 minute
(add cooked meat here)
Add gravy and tomato puree and simmer (medium heat) for about 10 minutes stirring regularly. Add a little water if it gets too dry.
Add prawns near end of cooking.
Nice work 976bar.
Any reason you chose the saffron base over the SnS 2008 base?
I only ask as SnS puts fresh corriander in the 2008 base but the Saffron recipe doesn't include this. I feel the fresh corriander adds a nice extra aromatic dimension to the base and final curry dishes.
I'm still trying to choose what base to cook next from this forum.
I feel the fresh coriander adds a nice extra aromatic dimension to the base and final curry dishes.
Hi
People.
I have just made this base,the oil has separated lovely,although it took longer than 30min,around 1 and a half hour simmering.
Do i stir the oil back in to the base sauce to seperate into pots for freezing ???
Peter
Do i stir the oil back in to the base sauce to seperate into pots for freezing ???
that made a very strong flavoured Curry , over rich for our taste and compared to our local T/A their Madras is very light on flavour but it's easy to eat
Hi guys, I'm a newbie here and would appreciate a little direction. I'm finding excellent comments, advice and tips but I'm having real problems finding actual recipes etc. Please accept my apologies if they're staring me in the face but I'm struggling to find them. Are they perhaps within the threads themselves? Any pointers would be much appreciated.
As a new moderator, I'll be happy to help improve the situation if I get enough support and agreement. I'll never alter anything off my own back, other than spam. We could start with this thread. Is it necessary or desirable to update the original recipe on page 1?IMHO, no. But adding a link at the bottom to a revised version would quite possibly beneficial.
It was unanimously voted thoroughly magnificent by 8 attending dinner guests, and I have to say, I was pretty gobsmacked myself.
Is it ]the garlic & ginger] really just chucked in with everything else and boiled or is it fried first?Yep, all boiled together. The smell is a matter of taste (if that is not an oxymoron, I don't know what is !) -- I don't mind it at all, others may find it offensive. Using a pressure cooker will certainly reduce the smell, particularly if you have a hob with very fine heat control such that you can just keep the pressure maintained without any steam escaping. See KD1/PC (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5671.0) for details.
I'm not really a fan of the boiling method so what I have started doing is putting 350ml of Veg Oil into a large pan then add all the Veg ( inc G/G ) then stir frying it all for about 5 minsJust as a point of interest, do you peel your ginger ? I don't, with the boiling method (unless it is very old and gnarly, but I don't normally buy such ginger), but I have the feeling that if you were to fry ginger skin it might go rather hard and unpleasant ...
I'm not really a fan of the boiling method so what I have started doing is putting 350ml of Veg Oil into a large pan then add all the Veg ( inc G/G ) then stir frying it all for about 5 minsJust as a point of interest, do you peel your ginger ? I don't, with the boiling method (unless it is very old and gnarly, but I don't normally buy such ginger), but I have the feeling that if you were to fry ginger skin it might go rather hard and unpleasant ...
** Phil.
Hi Phil, Yes I scrape the skin off the Ginger at the same time as scraping the Carrots then just roughly chop.OK, then I think that pre-frying in those circumstances would work very well. I suspect that most BIRs neither have the time nor the inclination to pre-fry, but then neither are they worried about the smell !
Hi Phil, Yes I scrape the skin off the Ginger at the same time as scraping the Carrots then just roughly chop.QuoteOK, then I think that pre-frying in those circumstances would work very well. I suspect that most BIRs neither have the time nor the inclination to pre-fry, but then neither are they worried about the smell !** Phil.
Your probably right Phil but me and the Mrs recently dined at a popular Indian Restaurant and sent our Curries back being flavourless :o perhaps they should consider a quick fry ;)No, it's a sad fact of life : the better our own curries become, the less impressed we are with those from otherwise excellent BIRs :( I have even found my last two t/as from the Taj of Kent to be sadly lacking, which bearing in mind the review (http://www.welovelocal.com/en/se/maidstone/marden/other-restaurants/taj-of-kent-tn129hs.html#review_66819) I posted when I first visited the place (and it has not changed hands in the meantime) is a very depressing experience ...
that the KD base wasn't ideal to make because she suggests boiling the ginger and garlic which gives off a very strong smell. However it seems to be the same in this base?
Just made base everything went well was making basic madras everything going well until last bit adding tom puree used 2 TBS instead of 2 TSP nearly cried added a bit more base and in the end didnt taste to bad a little thick and tom puree'ee but not not to got loads of base left so i guess i try again tommorow night
Terrific post Stevey. The end result looks fantastic. I'm just about to cook a curry for later on. Undecided on what to have though :-\. What recipe did you use for the phall? And what made you decide to use the saffron base in preference to many of the other more popular bases?
deet..deet..duh..deet..deet...deet...deet...This just in... the latest results from the curry lab...
Ok, so you'll have to improvise on the sound effects yourselves--think Robin Williams in Good Morning Vietnam.
Wanted to post this so I don't lose it amongst all of my recent notes. I've been trying a few different things over the past couple of days, and I think this one turned out absolutely brilliantly (of course, after eating this many curries lately, my objectivity may be slipping a little...). I don't think this is a stopping point because I'm still working on my overall technique and exploring the different effects of spices, etc., but I think I *could* stop here and be pretty happy.
I'd be interested in feedback if anyone else tries this recipe. From here on, the only variables will be experimenting with different spice mixes. I'd experimented with vinegar and/or Worcestershire sauce, but neither seemed to really add all that much. I may try again at some stage, but as a second pass.
I've also tried this with chicken and it works equally well, although pre-cooking didn't use the same ingredients. This time I only added 1 tsp turmeric to CK's chicken method (I mentioned this previously somewhere in the thread, I think).
Unfortunately, I haven't tried this at Madras heat levels yet, so I'm not sure how well the flavors balance in that case. I promise that I will try it soon, though.
Andrew's Latest Lamb Vindaloo (Jan 22 edition)
INGREDIENTS
200ml Saffron curry base (shaken, not stirred.... ;))
3 tbsp vegetable oil (see note 1)
1/4 cooking onion, chopped (approx 40g or so)
2 tbsp minced garlic (approx 2-4 cloves, depending on their size)
1 pre-boiled (but not quite cooked completely), small salad potato, halved
60-80g pre-cooked lamb (see note 2)
60ml lamb stock
2 tsp tomato puree (double-concentrate)
8 small green chillies, thinly sliced (see note 3)
2 tsp extra hot chilli powder (see note 4)
1 large pinch of dried methi leaves
"Haldi's Takeaway" Spice Mix (courtesy of Haldi's recent posts)
1/2 tsp turmeric
1/2 tsp corriander powder
1/2 tsp paprika
1/2 tsp Madras curry powder (see note 5)
1/4 tsp ground cumin
METHOD (basically the same as in the original Madras recipe)
Heat a heavy pan on med-high heat until hot. Add the oil and wait until it starts moving easily around the pan, but isn't smoking. Add the onion and garlic and sautee until just beginning to change color. Add the dry spices and stir continuously, making sure not to burn them. Wait until you can't breathe and then continue to cook them a bit longer, adding a little base if necessary.
Add the base and stir well to evenly mix the spices and the curry base. Stir in the tomato paste. When mixed well, add the chillies, lamb, lamb stock and the potato. Bring to an energetic boil and reduce to medium. Stir occasionally to check the consistency. After about 5 min, stir in the dried methi and reduce to desired consistency, adding some water if it gets too dry.
Sprinkle with coriander leaves (freshly chopped or dry) and serve.
Note 1:
It seems that after freezing this base, the oil doesn't want to separate like it used too. I know I'm cooking it the same way as before, but I've tended to end up with a tad drier curries trying to wait for the oil to separate. It still does, but there just doesn't seem to be as much of it. If you're using fresh, e.g. not frozen, curry base, you can reduce this amount to 2 tsp.
Has anyone else noticed this problem? ???
Note 2:
I used Curry King's method for cooking lamb (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,1915.0.html (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,1915.0.html)), except that I used 6 green pods, 5-6 small pieces of cassia bark, no ginger, 1 tsp of turmeric, 2 tsp of garam masala instead of the cumin/coriander mix and a large pinch of dried methi leaves. There was about 650g of lamb which was boiled on low for 1 hr and was also boiled with the hip bone and the hock ligaments.
Note 3:
I've no idea what they're called, but they look like this: http://indianfoodrocks.blogspot.com/2007/10/make-your-green-chillies-last-longer.html (http://indianfoodrocks.blogspot.com/2007/10/make-your-green-chillies-last-longer.html)
Note 4:
I think what I bought is Raj, but I forgot to write it down before I threw away the package. It seems to have quite a bit of cayenne in it from both the color and the taste. I'd say it'd be *roughly* equivalent to 4 tsp of Schwartz hot chilli powder and 1-2 tsp of pure cayenne powder as this was about what I was using before I went shopping at a real spice store.
Note 5:
One of the things I didn't buy when I was at the Indian grocer was Madras curry powder, so I cheated and used Schwartz's Medium Curry Powder. Probably nowhere close, but it's all I had.
Hi, wondered if someone can help - ive been reading through theis thread and confused at this post with the reference to a spice mix? The recipe above references the base sauce and then the lamb recipe, but where does the spice mix come in thats referenced? Is this meant as an alteration to the spices used in the Safron base sauce?
Any help appreciated.
Hi CHAh, thanks for the clarification martinvic. And that's before i have a couple of beers :o
I may be wrong but I think he is asking where the listed "Haldi's Takeaway" Spice Mix is used in the actual Vindaloo recipe.
Meaning ast gives the spice mix ingredients in his post, but it doesn't appear to be actually used in his recipe. ???
Martin
Hi CH
I may be wrong but I think he is asking where the listed "Haldi's Takeaway" Spice Mix is used in the actual Vindaloo recipe.
Meaning ast gives the spice mix ingredients in his post, but it doesn't appear to be actually used in his recipe. ???
Martin
It makes me wonder whether I could achieve a quality meat BIR dish without a base sauce.... though I guess i risk being shouted down suggesting that!
Can anyone clarify this for me??
1. In the ingredients list, it is mentioned "2 medium tomatoes" but in the method, it is suggested "Half a tin (200 g) of chopped plum tomatoes (Italian Napolina)" do we need both the 2 tomatos and the chopped plum tomatoes?
2. The deghi mirch is the powdered form correct? If so my understanding is that it is a bit hotter than the kashmiri mirch (correct me if wrong) -- is this a spicy/hot base?
3. What do you mean by "Removing any scum"? I only heard of scum in the context of scumbags, sorry :)
It's obviously totally genuine and you can make whatever constructive criticism about it
You can also be sure,the restaurant the curry base comes from, will still be using this recipe in two months time
1. In the ingredients list, it is mentioned "2 medium tomatoes" but in the method, it is suggested "Half a tin (200 g) of chopped plum tomatoes (Italian Napolina)" do we need both the 2 tomatos and the chopped plum tomatoes?
Pass.Quote2. The deghi mirch is the powdered form correct? If so my understanding is that it is a bit hotter than the kashmiri mirch (correct me if wrong) -- is this a spicy/hot base?
Correct on both counts.Quote3. What do you mean by "Removing any scum"? I only heard of scum in the context of scumbags, sorry :)
"Scum" is the detritus that accumulates on the surface of the base; it consists of a mixture of liquid, solid and gaseous matter, all of which cling to each other so that the scum becomes a semi-solid; it can be carefully manipulated with a spoon and then lifted clear of the surface.
This recipe calls for sweet paprika or alternatively deggi mirch. It's a bit strange that the option is either sweet/non-hot or hot -- any thoughts before I go ahead and do this one today, seeing as KD1 requires a few bits that I'm in short supply of :)
This recipe calls for sweet paprika or alternatively deggi mirch. It's a bit strange that the option is either sweet/non-hot or hot...
This recipe calls for sweet paprika or alternatively deggi mirch. It's a bit strange that the option is either sweet/non-hot or hot -- any thoughts before I go ahead and do this one today, seeing as KD1 requires a few bits that I'm in short supply of :)
Very odd indeed. Version 1 says "25 ml paprika (deghi mirch)", version 2 says "25 ml sweet paprika (or deghi mirch)". My /suspicion/ is that paprika was used, but that the author erroneously believed that deggi mirch was the same thing. But I might be wrong : it would not be the first time !
Incidentally, KD1 base is about as simple as you can get : what are these "few bits" that you lack ?
** Phil.
This recipe calls for sweet paprika or alternatively deggi mirch. It's a bit strange that the option is either sweet/non-hot or hot...
They are to all intents and purposes the same thing. Certainly the Capiscums and Chilli Pepper varieties they use are different, but do they impart an essentially different flavour or are they there predominantly for colouring?
I've used both and I struggle to taste the difference between them when used in a base sauce.
They (sweet paprika & deggi mirch : PT) are to all intents and purposes the same thing. Certainly the Capiscums and Chilli Pepper varieties they use are different, but do they impart an essentially different flavour or are they there predominantly for colouring?
I've used both and I struggle to taste the difference between them when used in a base sauce
Thanks for clarifying spicy. In that case, I'd be more keen on using deggi mirch, but I'd be a tiny bit afraid that the spiciness it may add to the base may taint the milder/sweeter dishes like kormas, CTMs and passandas, which is pretty much what my girlfriend eats :)
1. In the ingredients list, it is mentioned "2 medium tomatoes" but in the method, it is suggested "Half a tin (200 g) of chopped plum tomatoes (Italian Napolina)" do we need both the 2 tomatos and the chopped plum tomatoes?
2. The deghi mirch is the powdered form correct? If so my understanding is that it is a bit hotter than the kashmiri mirch (correct me if wrong) -- is this a spicy/hot base?
3. What do you mean by "Removing any scum"? I only heard of scum in the context of scumbags, sorry :)
Come, Sir, you jest. Deggi mirch is a moderately hot chilli, powdered; sweet paprika is a mild paprika, powdered. They are as different as chalk and cheese (dry-taste each as a powder and compare).
I think you're getting confused between a particular brand of Deggi Mirch (which to you is moderately hot) and the generic name Deggi Mirch which is mild to be honest.
I'm not "getting confused"; I have experienced only one brand of Deggi Mirch (MDH) and that is definitely hotter than the same brand's Kashmiri Mirch. If generic Deggi Mirch exists, then I do not think it would be safe to pronounce on its heat, since by definition any two samples may significantly differ in their heat level. Where have you seen generic Deggi Mirch on sale ?
I'm not "getting confused"; I have experienced only one brand of Deggi Mirch (MDH) and that is definitely hotter than the same brand's Kashmiri Mirch. If generic Deggi Mirch exists, then I do not think it would be safe to pronounce on its heat, since by definition any two samples may significantly differ in their heat level. Where have you seen generic Deggi Mirch on sale ?
You are getting confused.
As far as you're concerned Deggi Mirch only comes from one supplier box - MDH
For everyone else, Deggi Mirch is a generic name referring to the Indian equivalent of Paprika, which is a blend of Kashmiri Chillies, Capiscums and other mild Red Chillies, not all of which have to come from Kashmir.
No, quite the contrary, but it is possible that you are, since you are asserting that I have said (or written) things that I most definitely have not.
have you, personally, ever used "generic Deggi Mirch"
...and if so, from where did you get it
and how would you assess it in terms of heat, flavour, etc ?
Because from everything you have written so far on the subject, it would seem that you have no experience of it whatsoever, and are simply spouting "facts" that you have found somewhere on the Internet.
One called Kashmiri Mast, which i assume means best quality?
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But what's interesting about that is, the milder it is, the more expensive it is. The cheapest is the pungent one and the most expensive the mild one!
How curious.
I grind my own Chilli powders, I've mentioned this on here before many times.
It's a mixture of ground Red Kashmiri chillies, ground dried Red Pimientos (which I bring back from Spain) and Lal Mirch which are just generic red Chillies for heat. I can make it as hot or as mild as I want. Sometimes I put in some dried ground chipotle for a smokey flavour.
It's pretty close to that of Paprika which is what I use it for and why I said they're interchangeable. But given I have full control over it, I can make it as mild or as hot, smokey or sweet as I want.
Given that I'm probably the only person on this site that actually bothers to source, grind and blend my own Chilli powders from whole dried chillies suggests that I do actually know what I'm talking about.
What do you think?
Or do you just think that Deggi Mirch only comes out of an MDH box because that's the only experience you've ever had of it
why you would go to all that trouble when you can buy and use real paprika is quite beyond me.
** Phil.
For myself, I prefer to base my judgements on a commercial, easily obtainable brand, so that they are more likely to be relevant to the Deggi Mirch that others obtain and use.
...it's pretty clear to me (and perhaps to others) that what you produce is some sort of paprika substitute : why you would go to all that trouble when you can buy and use real paprika is quite beyond me.
Could be that the cheapest one is full of all the nasties and millions of seeds, whereas the kashmiri mast is flesh only? Doesnt explain the grades in between though.
I emailed MDH a few weeks ago asking what types of chillies they used in their deggi mirch.
They never replied. :-\
You just accept them, because that's what it says on the packet!
No, I trust them because they are professional Indian spice suppliers who have been in business for almost 100 years.
How so when you haven't got the slightest clue what is even in that box, apart from the fact is says 'Deggi Mirch' on the packet? I've already told you, MDH don't even list the ingredients or what Chilli varieties have been used. It just says Red Chilli Powder - it could be anything.
It's far more likely they use packets of chilli powder, so it seems quite valid for us to do the same.
I don't copy what BIR's do, because what they do is mostly out of expediency and cheapness...If you want to copy them and use cheapo bags of chilli powder, that's your choice and prerogative.
I don't copy what BIR's do, because what they do is mostly out of expediency and cheapness...If you want to copy them and use cheapo bags of chilli powder, that's your choice and prerogative.
You're on the wrong forum pal. ;)
You're on the wrong forum pal.
Yes, I forgot the forum seems to be mostly about copying what BIR's do without actually understanding why, perhaps that's why so many people struggle to achieve the desired results! ;)
Yes, I forgot the forum seems to be mostly about copying what BIR's do
Phil, you seem to be arguing for arguments sake. ::)
the Deggi Mirch that Goncalo would almost certainly use is MDG Deggi Mirch (by far the most easily available in the UK) and therefore it is essential that this thread clarifies that MDH Deggi Mirch is far far hotter than sweet paprika as well as having a totally different flavour. Ensuring that this is clear to Goncalo and other readers is my only reason for continuing the debate.
I agree that anything which leads to superior flavours is a lead worth following, so if blending your own chilli powders is worthwhile, I'm keen to hear more.
As it happens, I was "introduced" to MDH Deggi Mirch by someone at one of the top London Indian Restaurants. He said their chef used it. The flavours in their dishes were amazing - probably the best Indian food I've tasted anywhere in the UK. So, if it's good enough for them, I thought it should be good enough for me, and I've used it ever since.
So yes, I do believe that the top restaurants in the world use SOME pre-ground packet spices.
I made my comments based on what the generic Deggi Mirch was, which is pretty close to Paprika.
No, you did not. You made your comments based on /your interpretation/ of the constituents of "generic Deggi Mirch", as blended by you.
For myself, I prefer to trust the judgement of people who have been selecting, blending and selling spices in India for almost 100 years in preference to the opinion of someone who only joined the forum on 1st November 2011 yet who clearly believes that he knows it all.
How long does it keep and can it be frozen in small portions?It will be good for up to three days in the fridge, although i have regularly used it when it's been refridgerated for up to five days. A few others have kept it even longer :o It freezes perfectly so a take away is never far away with base in the freezer ;D
The reason I've held off so long in trying that recipe is because I'm not a coconut lover either and having read some replies in that thread, I'd cut the amount too (or could I miss it out altogether?).IMHO coconut has no place in a base sauce, and I have proof that it's never been used in any of our favourite dishes from any of our favourite restaurants. How? Because my wife is allergic to it, and breaks out in a hot rash at the slightest exposure. This means she avoids curries like korma which explicitly include it, but it also means it must be absent from the base sauce where she has eaten other dishes without any problem.
If in doubt, leave it out ;)
I agree. I can't see that coconut needs to be cooked for several hours in a base sauce, so doesn't it make more sense to add it when making the final curry, only if justified?
Recently, the best final curries I've made have been made using the worst tasting base sauce. Go figure!
And it's not just the oil in the base either. It depends on how much you put in the pan for the final curry you're making and how much time you spend frying the base.All that makes sense to me apart from "how much time you spend frying the base" -- could you possibly explain how that comes into the equation, please ?
Mind you, I haven't done this for a while, but that's what I remember. The more time, the thicker the sauce due to the reduction and the more oil in the base is likely to be released.
And it's not just the oil in the base either. It depends on how much you put in the pan for the final curry you're making and how much time you spend frying the base.All that makes sense to me apart from "how much time you spend frying the base" -- could you possibly explain how that comes into the equation, please ?
Mind you, I haven't done this for a while, but that's what I remember. The more time, the thicker the sauce due to the reduction and the more oil in the base is likely to be released.
** Phil.
All that makes sense to me apart from "how much time you spend frying the base" -- could you possibly explain how that comes into the equation, please ?
Basically, it's about when you make it in the pan. Rather than explain it again, and that I haven't really done it in at least 6 years, this is a post I did years ago earlier in the thread. Skip to the METHOD heading: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,2271.msg19827.html#msg19827
I have known SnS for some considerable time now (over 48 years in fact!) and I can POSITIVELY GUARANTEE that, if SnS says its from a pucker, high quality BIR restaurant/takeway, then it most certainly is!
I love JerryM's approach to his curry...
Do i stir the oil back in to the base sauce to seperate into pots for freezing ???
SnS strongly believes that it should be stirred back in, I believe, and for very justifiable reasons.
Bob, I think it might clarify matters if you could cite verbatim the response (or responses) from CA which you feel were intended to belittle SnS.
Thanks CA.
Only to be extensively belittled by CorryAnders and his inability to except mistakes, continually rebuffing help and advice offered.