Curry Recipes Online
Curry Base Recipes => Curry Sauce, Curry Base , Curry Gravy Recipes, Secret Curry Base => Topic started by: ivangough on April 27, 2008, 06:08 AM
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Recipe deleted..New recipe below.
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Welcome to crO ivangough and thanks for sharing your recipe with us, which is interesting.
Just some quick observations, if I may. 225g is about one medium/large onion isnt it? The quanity of spices (over 17 teaspoons?) seems like a shed load of spices for such a small amount of onions and veg? Are you sure your quanities are correct?
It makes me shudder to think what this base might taste like with 1tsp of nutmeg and/or 3 tsp of cardamon powder and/or 1tsp of white pepper in it (given the small amount of veg). Presumably you've tried it? What does it taste like? What types of curry would you say its suited to? With 2 tsp of chilli powder, it must be bloody hot ones!
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ivangough,
really really good post ;D. am sure all will find it very interesting.
i'm certainly going to have to give it a go - i particularly like the sort of slow roasting of the onions till brown
i am certain that the "3TSP CARDAMOM POWDER" should be coriander powder everything else sits fine with me.
the raw cashews are especially interesting (the family love them).
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Hmm...You might be right guys, somewhere I got it wrong, so I deleted the recipe at the top. Here's the original full version of the recipe. We made it at the chefs house and I watched the whole process, and tasted the great results! For this version, the chef used a fairly large stockpot! And yes, the cooking times are right. This took almost 6 hours to prepare and cook, but we had enough base for a couple of months worth of meals! TSP = Teaspoon, TBLS = Tablespoon.
CURRY BASE
1. PUT WATER AND A DASH OF VEG OIL IN A POT. BRING TO A SLOW BOIL AND ADD 2.5 Kg PEELED & CHOPPED ONIONS, 3 CHOPPED GREEN CHILLI (NO SEEDS) AND A HALF INCH PIECE CHOPPED GINGER, ABOUT 1 THUMBS WORTH. (WATER NOT QUITE COVERING ONIONS.) BOIL FOR 1HR WITH LID ON.
2. STRAIN IN SEIVE AND PUREE THE ONION MIX.
3. HEAT 700ML OIL IN A STOCKPOT OVER MED/HIGH HEAT, THEN ADD 3/4-1TBLS MINCED GARLIC, 4 GREEN CARDAMOM PODS, 5 BAY LEAVES, 3 PIECES CASSIA BARK, 4 CLOVES. STIR THE POT, AND DO NOT LET THE SPICES STICK! AFTER A MINUTE OR SO ADD ONION PUREE IN BATCHES AND PUT LID ON. USE HIGH HEAT WHILE ADDING ONIONS, THEN LOWER HEAT TO SIMMER. WATCH OUT, IT WILL SPLATTER! THE MAIN IDEA HERE IS TO KEEP THE OIL HOT, SO YOU'RE FRYING THE ONION MIX, NOT BOILING IT. AS ALWAYS, DURING THE REST OF THE COOKING FROM HERE ON, MAKE SURE YOU ARE REGULARLY STIRRING THE POT, AND THAT NOTHING IS BURNING!
4. STIR AND SIMMER 3/4 HOUR THEN ADD 1.5 TBLS SALT TO POT.
5. COOK FURTHER 1 1/2 HOURS TILL ONIONS GO BROWN. WHILE THIS IS COOKING, PREPARE THE PASTE IN THE NEXT STEP..
6. MIX THESE TOGETHER IN A BOWL..125g TOMATO PASTE, 1-2TSP CHILLI POWDER, 1.5 TBLS TURMERIC, 1TSP NUTMEG, 1/2 TSP SWEET PAPRIKA, 3 TSP CARDAMOM POWDER, 2 1/4 TBLS CUMMIN POWDER, 1 TSP GROUND WHITE PEPPER, 1/2 TSP CINNAMON POWDER. THE CHEF TOLD ME THAT HE USES MORE CUMMIN, AND LESS CARDAMOM, THAN SOME OTHER INDIAN CHEFS. YOU MAY TRY TO VARY THESE 2 SPICE AMOUNTS FOR DIFFERENT RESULTS. THIS CHEF SAID THE CUMMIN AMOUNT SHOULD BE ROUGHLY 3 TIMES THE CARDAMOM AMOUNT, AND HE DIDN'T USE ANY CORIANDER POWDER. WHEN YOUR 1 1/2 HOURS IS UP, ADD THIS PASTE TO YOUR POT.
7. SIMMER FURTHER 15 MINUTES
8. (OPTIONAL STEP) ADD MILK TO 100G CRUSHED UNSALTED RAW CASHEWS. (WILL MAKE A MILKY CONSISTENCY.) THEN ADD THIS MIXTURE TO POT. THIS WILL SLIGHTLY SWEETEN YOUR BASE.
9. SIMMER FURTHER 10 MINUTES AND YOUR DONE! TASTE AND ADD A LITTLE MORE SALT IF NEEDED.
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Thanks for the correction iangough. Yes, 2.5kg of onions is very different than 225g for the same quantity of spices! Didnt you have green pepper in your first post too? What is the tomato paste? Is it the runny stuff from a can (puree) or do you really mean the paste (the thick stuff)?
everything else sits fine with me.
Over 17 teaspoons of ground spices (plus whole spices) to 225g of onion, plus half a green pepper, "sits fine" with you Jerry? Please tell us you're joking?! :-\
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Hey all..
Yes there is green chilli in the recipe, but not green pepper as I know it. Here in Australia we have green chillis around 10-15 cm long, but they may be called "green peppers" elsewhere in the world. Also the tomato paste is a thick paste here, not Puree or "Passata" as I think it's called overseas.
Ivan.
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Just a litle point here guys.
An Australian metric tbsp (tablespoon) = 20ml (not the 15ml used in UK)
An Australian metric tsp (teaspoon) = 5 ml (same as UK)
Perhaps you can clarify please ivangough.
SnS ;)
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I thought Australian tablespoons were the same as the overseas counterpart, but perhaps not!
No, this is not a joke either. Just a recipe a kind chef cooked in for me at his house. Let me explain.. I have a local indian that I ate at many times. I asked to meet the chef there, and hassled him for some tips and he was kind enough to invite me to his house, where he cooks for his family on his days off. I told him I knew about "curry base" but had no idea how to make it, so he cooked it on front of me and I wrote the recipe down as he went along. He was quite happy to share the "secret" of curry base, but quick to add that every chef he knows makes it slightly differently.
I hope that explains things a little better!
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Hey Bangla..
I agree in part but I should add at this point that it's quite similar to base made in the UK. I think you should try it and see, as I think it's worth the effort. Also I am, just for reference, keen to see what the main differences are between Australian and UK restaurant bases and curries. I have had both many times, and can taste differences, but not the huge differences some have found.
Cheers.
Edit.. Perhaps it may be worth having a separate section for recipes from other parts of the world? Just a thought..
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Edit.. Perhaps it may be worth having a separate section for recipes from other parts of the world? Just a thought..
Good suggestion, but I wouldnt worry too much about it. Most people are quite capable of sifting through and finding what interests them most. Only idiots arent and they can always go (back) to another site.
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I thought Australian tablespoons were the same as the overseas counterpart, but perhaps not!
Hi ivangough
See here regarding measurements
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooking_weights_and_measures
You need to check out and confirm what tbsp measurement you've used as this may cause a significant difference in the results achieved by anyone using your recipe.
Regards
SnS ;D
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This sounds very interesting! A nice change from the near identical method employed on most base recipes. I think I'm gonna try this one soon.
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Actually, in hindsight, I need a curry recipe to go with this. Such a different base probably has a very different curry recipe to what I'm used to. Maybe you can help Ivan?
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Tamala,
glad you're keeping an eye on me
Over 17 teaspoons of ground spices (plus whole spices) to 225g of onion, plus half a green pepper, "sits fine" with you Jerry? Please tell us you're joking?!
my explanation is i'm quite happy with the 3 bases that i've now adopted (rajver, saffron, ifindforu). these have pretty much told me what amounts i need for the base to work. i don't believe these bases can be beaten.
i'm now keeping an eye out for 2 things associated with technique.
1) how can i increase the sweetness (without the sickly taste of adding sugar) - ie should i fry the onions or just boil them. i've read most of the forum posts on the subject buy i'm still undecided. i thought this recipe quite interesting down to the bit about browning the onions. That was the only bit I was interested in.
2) the smokey flavour - i'm interested in oil reclaim and a better burner (no context in this recipe)
given this recipe has no coriander and losts of cumin i'm afraid i'm staying over here and not going over there (sorry ivangough -no dissent on your recipe - just that i'm pretty fixed on the taste i'm after and although i like cardamom i like coriander better and not keen on cumin in big amounts)
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You're quite right.. It seems Australian tablespoons are 4 teaspoons, or 20g!
I've made this base a few times, and it is good, but I wouldn't suggest anyone here has a go in a hurry. You already have some great base recipes on the site, which seem to be getting good results. I guess this was more of a "see how we do it over here" kinda thing. It's also worth noting that there are quite a few other differences between English and Australian Indian restaurants. For instance Chicken Tikka over here, is a totally different marinade to Tandoori. It has a yellowish color and a different taste, whereas Tandoori here (like in the UK) is bright red. Also our Vindaloo is quite different to yours. Over here Vindaloo is alot more tangy, and seems to have more vinegar, and possibly tamirind or something in it. I'm sorry I can't explain it better!
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ivangough,
the length and method of cooking is quite different to what i've tried before.
i currently favour bunging all in the pan and leaving it simmer. i'd like to get more sweetness in the final curry and i feel i need to discount the effect of frying the onions.
this recipe seems ideal to test the theory in practise so i'm going to give it a go next week. the cashews as i said are a v.nice twist. i'll have to swop the cardamom powder for coriander as i just can't see the recipe working for my taste buds otherwise.
hope u get some good results from trying the uk style bases.
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I'm not sure why he used Cardamom really, he just did it and I wrote it down. I think it would be better with coriander, and closer to the BIR bases all over this site. It's worth noting though that he only used 3 teaspoons of cardamom in what was a large dish, and it hasn't overpowered the base when I've made it this way.
Anyway, I'm going to try one of the bases on here tomorrow, as I have friends coming over for a curry night next week, and I wanna impress them! I'm gonna start with the Darth 100% clone or Rajver base and make some Vindaloo.. Probably followed by some Tikka Masala. Anyone here want to recommend me the best base/Tikka Masala recipe?
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Anyone here want to recommend me the best base/Tikka Masala recipe?
for this combination for me has got to be rajver base and curry king CTM with CA's tikka
ivangough,
am sure friends will be well impressed. my family rate better than BIR (i'm more madras but do agree it's pretty good, i use evaporated milk instead of cream feeling closer to BIR)
thanks for thoughts on coriander - i think i will try the cardamom (a bit at a time as i do like it) to see how well it works. i will add the coriander though as i think this BIR essential. i am very tempted to add anise but will try to leave out this time.
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ivangough,
does the sieved onion water go back in at all. i think i will add it back at step 5.
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this base has taken me by surprise. it's got to be a 10/10 (albeit i need to cook with it to confirm).
i did not follow the spec exactly. changes being:
1) no green chillies (i like to add chilli at cooking stage)
2) 4 english tsp of salt (c/w 6 etsp) - thought this to be enough would even go 3 tsp next time
3) 3 english tsp turmeric (c/w 6 etsp)
4) did not add white pepper
5) i'm not sure if/when the sieved liquid should be added back in - i added at recipe step 4.
6) did not get to add the cashews but i expect this to be a good addition
7) added 200ml of oil (c/w 700ml)
i found step 2 & 3 a bit of a phaff. i'm not sure the sieving is crucial and found the frying of the onion puree a real splatter (hence ended up adding back the liquid as i could not live with the splattering - frying the puree was like an exploding volcano)
i was really sceptical about the cardamom but found the base lacking after adding the rest of the spices so added it in as per spec and found it spot on.
i was amazed at the final result given no carrot or green pepper.
i'm not sure i got the onions brown enough at stage 5 despite cooking for 2 hrs longer than spec. there was a definite improvement in sweetness from the longer cooking time (banked for use in my norm bases).
the high level of salt made me v.nervous but in retrospect i think it works somehow with the onions to increase the overall sweetness (i know this sounds v.strange)
i found i had to remove the solids at the end to enable a further puree (i found it difficult to get a very smooth puree at stage 2 due to the lack of liquid)
i've separated off enough for 1 portion of the "as spec" curry (around 300 ml) and then added coriander (9 etsp) to the remainder. i was surprised that i could not decide which i liked best - will need to make a madras sauce to test both bases for sure.
overall this base is slightly different (the casia, cinnamon and cardamom work very well together). i feel i got a much sweeter base with this technique than previously (i'm not sure if this is down to technique or length of onion cooking).
it's certainly passes the threshold and i'm well impressed ;D ;D ;D
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sorry forgot the pics
1) spices (top left - coriander, top right cardamom)
2) onion finished cooking
3) finished sauce
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Glad you had success with it!
FYI..The chef discarded the onion liquid, which kinda surprised me. And they don't use carrot, celery, or potatos in base here. (Well, not that I've seen.) Also re:cooking time, the chef explained that the cooking time was VERY important, and a major part of getting the right flavour. Anyway let us know how you go making it into a curry. I'm about to knock up some base myself and see how I go.
Also, do you use "new" packet ground spices each time you cook, or do you grind up whole spices? And do you roast the spices first? I know the flavour can vary alot with the incorrect use of spices.
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ivangough,
i do feel your chef is really top notch.
i can't believe he discards the onion liquid - the sauce will be very thick. i also found due to the length of cooking i had to top up with water.
totally agree on the importance of the cooking time.
for this recipe i left the whole spices whole ie i did not grind (hope this was right). i don't buy new packet each time - i always grind as i need. the only time i roast whole spices is to make garam masala. rest of the time i just grind without roasting.
probably won't get to make curry till tuesday but will keep u posted. i make what i call my std madras sauce and to date i find whichever base i use there's not much difference in the final curry (assuming the base passes a given threshold) - the frying technique and spice mix having a greater effect at the frying stage.
this base is much sweeter though and i expect it to give me that little extra bit of sweetness that i've been missing c/w BIR. i think it is down to the length of cooking of the onions more than the technique which i intend to confirm by adopting the cooking time for my next batch of base that i've made before (rajver, saffron, ifindforu).
ps both bases taste even better today (the as spec and the as spec+coriander)
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I'm loving the texture there! Lentily! ;D
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Actually the texture was what really impressed me. I just looked at it when we finished making it and thought "looks like restaurant curry!" And yes, he kept the whole spices whole. I like the idea of putting the whole spices in a muslin bag (like I've seen elsewhere on this site) and then removing it at the end.
I'm going to cook it on Monday (haven't done it for a while) and then try out some of the curry recipes on here to see what results I get. Will keep you posted..
Also JerryM love the pics!
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This recipe is very interesting. I would like to know roughly how much sauce you end up with in the end. Also, removing all the water and frying the onions for 4-5 hours seems like it would end up a totally dry mixture and not very saucy at all, so I find that a bit strange, but I will try this in the future for sure.
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Hey Ivan, I was reading the recipe more thoroughly and at one point you say to leave this for 3/4 Hour. Is that three quarters of an hour or 3 to four hours. Thanks, BB.
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That's 45 minutes Bobby. I can't remember why he seived the onion mix, but I'd definately keep the liquid and add it to the pot as required to keep the base from getting too dry. Mind you, his base was quite thick when we finished it.
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That's 45 minutes Bobby. I can't remember why he seived the onion mix, but I'd definately keep the liquid and add it to the pot as required to keep the base from getting too dry. Mind you, his base was quite thick when we finished it.
Thanks for the response, I know it must have seemed like a pretty stupid question but I asked because of the 6 hours you mention that it took to prepare and cook. Cheers, BB.
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My pan holds 4.5l and this was what i started off with the water level not quite covering the onions. i have about 3l finished curry. i added back the onion liquid which i think was between 1.5 and 2l and also added in say 500ml of water during the boiling (i did boil for an extra 2hrs). the consistency is now the same as i would get from the bases on this site.
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I'm making some base now actually. Can anyone recommend me the best recipes to turn the base into some Vindaloo, and some Madras.
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I'm loving the texture there! Lentily! ;D
"Lumpy" is the word you're looking for bobby. It should be smoothe, not lumpy. I can see all sorts of lumps (garlic?) in it.
This is one of the weirdest base recipes ive seen.
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"Lumpy" is the word you're looking for bobby. It should be smoothe, not lumpy. I can see all sorts of lumps (garlic?) in it.
I'm spunky - I like my base sauce lumpy!
Sorry, couldn't resist. I think it looks mouthwatering. My favourite take away turns out Madras of that consistency and I love it. I prefer it like that than thin and watery.
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No there's no lumps if you make it right. Just make sure you puree the mix for ages to get it smooth.
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mine was lumpy initially.
getting the cooked onion into a puree (without the liquid) is as ivan says a fairly challenging task. as i said i got round this by taking out the spices (bay, casis, cloves) at the end and then pureeing again - mine now looks v.smooth just as u need.
i like the idea of the muslin bag to help out with this.
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Can anyone recommend me the best recipes to turn the base into some Vindaloo, and some Madras.
i would go for parker21's
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,1454.msg12717.html#msg12717
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,1454.msg12717.html#msg12717)
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I just finished making this base again. Some tips..
I pureed the onion mix in a food processor, using one ladle full of mix at a time. I added some of the sieved onion liquid to loosen it up and help the food processor a bit. There should be no lumps in this, so if you have lumps, puree it again.
I'm now going to make some Vindaloo with this, so I'll let you know how I go. Cheers.
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3 bowls of madras curry sauce cooked - 3 empty bowls
1st was with "as spec" base, 2nd "as spec" base plus coriander seed, 3rd as 2nd plus the cashews.
all 3 testers (wife,son & myself) felt the cardamom too much in the "as spec base". the addition of coriander seed at stage 7 (8 etsp - a little too much would make it 4 etsp next time) made it spot on for us.
the addition of the cashew (would agree not essential) but did add a nice twist with a difference (banked for future).
1 of the testers thought the curry was sweeter than normal (i could not be sure so feel extra 2hrs cooking time for onions to be helpful but not essential) and i am going to adopt longer onion cooking in future.
overall spot on curry that's up their with the rest on the site. the key learning for me is that the spices & onion were as good as onion, carrot & green pepper.
there is definitely something their that i can work with to align with my onion/garlic/tomato taste buds. i do like that casia / cardamom / cinnamon spice combination - a real find
many thanks for posting ;D ;D ;D