Curry Recipes Online
Curry Base Recipes => Curry Sauce, Curry Base , Curry Gravy Recipes, Secret Curry Base => Topic started by: Mark J on May 11, 2005, 11:27 PM
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Just been to my friendly takeaway tonight and talked to him at length about the base sauce.
He said start with vegie oil and fry garlic and ginger
Add chilli powder, curry powder, turmeric and salt. I said I use rajah curry powder and he said that would fine in the kind of way that meant basically any curry powder would be fine.
Add onions, carrots, green peppers, celery, fresh coriander and tomato paste, add water.
Simmer for an hour, then liquidise, then cook on high for 10 minutes and low for 5 minutes, job done. He leaves it overnight and said this added to the flavor.
He was adamant that it cant be done at home and seemed to indicate it was to do with quantities, he said the amounts of spice are very important.
He also said he cooks curry for his kids at home and they say, dont cook it at home, bring some from the take away kitchen!
He said the tomato he adds is definately called paste and he buys it in big cans
Just realised I posted this in the wrong section, Stu can you move it to base sauce area, cheers
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Nice one mate .
This forum now officialy has BALLS !!!!
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I see the Carrots & Green Peppers are in there again !!! ;) ;)
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One more thing , did they give you any indication of quantities of the above ingredients ?? :)
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Mark - Many thanks for obtaining and reporting your restaurant owner's comments - invaluable in building up a picture. But one thing concerns me - he said any curry powder would be 'fine'. These people never like to offend. I'm sure Rajah curry powder would be fine. But would it be optimal or best? There's likely to be a significant difference, including the ingredients which lead to the best taste, between a curry powder mix which is fine, and one which is optimal. In my mind, I think the inclusion or omission of things like green peppers and chicken stock could be the difference between one local BIR and another, fine tuning. BIR curries do vary a bit. But I also believe the common 'special taste' is from what's in the curry powder, or perhaps herbs.
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I reckon he is bang on, the curry powder blend isnt the secret IMHO, its all about fried onions garlic and ginger and technique
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He didnt give me quantities and I also meant to ask about chicken stock, next time I am in there I will get the exact recipe for his base sauce (and Im sure he will give it to me), the thing that will be tricky to get is the quantity of spices as Im sure he will just do it by eye but I will get an idea
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good stuff Mark - I'm very interested to see how this one pans out. Is there any chance he might let you go in and watch him prepare it?
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I think he would to be honest, its just a question of if I can get there at the right time, its only about 1.5 hours as well so not too bad
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He was adamant that it cant be done at home and seemed to indicate it was to do with quantities, he said the amounts of spice are very important.
He also said he cooks curry for his kids at home and they say, dont cook it at home, bring some from the take away kitchen!
You know, I really believe this man.
I think you can get close to the flavour by being very scientific about it, but at a restaurant they must just chuck it all in!!
There's no time for our methods.
Maybe the "bengali cuisine" curry gravy recipe is ok.
You just needed to make up thirty times it's volume.
There are too many similar curry gravy recipe reports for them to be untrue.
Onions, carrots, green pepper and? tomato paste come up again and again.
It just can't be that difficult to make!
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Could someone ask their local BIR to give the recipe in terms of the quanitities as they would cook it?? ?If one of us could have a go at it, that would be a test worth doing.
Unfortunately the two BIR's nearest me aren't overly talkative/friendly, and with the new one we've started going to I think we need to get to know a bit better before the questions start rolling. It's being worked on though!
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OK, I chatted to the guy again tonight and have his recipe for making up his standard sized pot of base sauce, bear in mind the size of the pot is huge, its about 14-16 inches in height and diameter. The guy is very honest and is entertained at what I am doing, he has also said he would be happy for me to come and watch him make the base.
This is a full recipe of base sauce in the quantity that a BIR would make, when I refer to chefs spoons below I am referring to the big spoon they use to make all the curries, I estimate this is approx 2 table spoons, all measurements are round spoons, not level nor heaped.
In this 14-16" pan add veg oil up to a depth of 3/4 inch, heat on a high heat
Add 2 chefs spoons each of ginger and garlic puree, he was at great pains to point out to me this should be cooked until brown as Pete has seen before and to make sure I keep stirring it.
When brown add 1.5 chefs spoons each of curry powder and turmeric, add half a level chefs spoon of chilli powder (I have seen him add chilli powder to my dishes and he doesn't use very hot chilli powder)
Stir quickly frying for a short while and then add some water "otherwise it gets too sticky/thick"
Next add the following chopped:
30-35 onions (thats no typo!)
5/6 carrots "or 4 big ones"
3 green peppers
half a bunch of celery
and half a cooks spoon of salt
2 desert spoons of garam masala "be careful not to over do this as it will easily dominate the base if you add too much", this is equivalent to 4 level TSP
fresh coriander and tomato paste*
Add water and see the top post now for how long to cook this for and what to do next
* I didn't get the measurements for these 2 ingredients, will do next time I go
He was at great pains to be wary of adding too much chilli, salt and garam masala. Too much of any of these will ruin the base and are irreversible.
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The thing that suprised me the most about this is how little volume of spices there is compared to the overall volume of base this recipe produces.
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Brilliant Mark. I am sure there will be a few of us trying this!
Now where to find a pot big enough...
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OK, I chatted to the guy again tonight
That's fantastic Mark.
Could you squeeze in a question about chicken stock/jelly.
Does he make it?
Thanks Mark again
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Nice one mark i will try it out with a 15 onion version & cut all the ingredients by 50 % & see what happens, i agree about the Garam Masala it will overpower the other subtle(did i say subtle !!) spices, we all seem to be coming to the same conclusion, with time & patience we all may get 100% clone soon then we`ll have to try other dishes (lasan chicken next ??). ;D ;D ;D ;D
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MarkJ, I think you are VERY close here. I've been real close but I've never tried celery and peppers in my base. I wonder............
Can you tell me how much celery he put in for this quantity ?
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Pete:I will ask about the chicken jelly/stock, he didnt mention it but then again he probably wouldnt ;D
Darth: Go for the full 30! ;D ;D ;D
Blade: It was about 3/4 sticks of celery
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Pete:I will ask about the chicken jelly/stock, he didnt mention it but then again he probably wouldnt ;D
Thanks Mark!
Are you going to try the full version?
It's massive isn't it?
I don't know if one gas ring would be enough.
I suppose it just takes longer.
One chef, I know, said they have to use four rings to heat their pot.
I can't wait for part two of the recipe!!
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Great job, again, Mark!?
I don't know if one gas ring would be enough.
I suppose it just takes longer.
Timing will definitely be a problem.? It'll take longer to get to boiling, then (trying to sound scientific here :) ) will evaporate slower/faster than at the restaurant, depending on the diameter of the pot.? But as long as the final texture is the same, it should work.? I know I'm just stating the obvious...
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Thanks Mark
I will make this with 10 onions so I'm planniing to third the ingredients based on your 30/35 onion verison . If you had to make a *swag* at the other ingredients, would you reckon I'd get away with a 500g jar of Passatta and a handful of chopped corriander for this version ?
PS. Please hurry up, I'm ready to rock here :)
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I cant wait to see this guy prepare this in person, he said he usually does this at 16:00 unfortunately this takeaway is not in my home town and just happens to be somewhere I visit every Wednesday for the night.
I must confess I am not going to try this, personally I am so close to the BIR meal as to be practically indistinguishable from the real thing that I don't fancy peeling 30 opinions but am happy to bring this info to the group ;D
The big question to my mind is that of scale, can you really just half all of the ingredients and try this kind of recipe? I don't know, is it just a case of halving all the spices & salt etc or should the spicing be kept the same??
Blade: I have made Pete's 600ml oil base with coriander stalks and I used ~20-30 stalks, I would suggest the same or a whole bunch of tesco/asda coriander that currently costs ~99p. I would also guess 500g passatta is about right, if maybe a bit too much, for 10 onions worth of base sauce in this recipe.
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I was concerned about the celery
i was convinced carrot didin't belong in curries
however this base is outstanding !!
I have a heaving pot of unbelievablely wonderful base. I used 'Laziza' garlic/ginger, Rajah curry powder, and Natco spices for the remainder. I added 1 tin of tomatoes (450g) and a handful of fresh corriander.
Overall I used 1/3 of the original recipe from MarkJ (total of 10 spanish onions).
I've been trying to get here for years - I reckon the new factor for me is the celery. This seems to make a huge difference.
Can't wait to try a final dish
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Cool!
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I am also sooo close & I'm getting closer every time !! ;D ;D The Celery i have not used yet but Will,l I'm off to the supermarket today to get a load of onions .
Question. Is it 30-35 small cooking onions or large Spanish onions hope its the small ones as Ive got a pot that do the job nicely.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Anyone doubting the Carrot as an ingredient don't, Curry King`s recipe is the same as the one given to me by my local & we are miles apart, also the peppers & you`ll find this base tastes good on its own & i was also told that you cant copy a resteraunt curry due to the vast amount of ingredients they cant be sad enough to all be telling the same lie .I have great faith in the fact that this web site has 99% of the info we need (time will tell).
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however this base is outstanding !!
Hi Blade,
? ? ? ? ? ?Do you reckon it's better and different than the other bases on this site.
And..............................has it got the "taste" ?
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>>however this base is outstanding !!>>
Don't forget - this is merely Blades opinion.
Ten years ago I made curries that I thought then were fantastic - just like as good as a restaurant.........
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Darth, I suspect it's the big spanish onions as I can't see the BIRs messing around with the small ones - hopefuly Mark can confirm. I used 10 of these (about the size of an orange) along with 2 big carrots, 2 sticks of celery and 1 Green pepper for this amount. I also added lots of boiling water - covered the veggies and then an additional inch. The consistency of the blended base is spot on - not too thick.
Pete, I haven't actually tried a celery/carrot version yet but this is by far the best base I've made and I've made hundreds in my time. I think it has great potential to have the taste, but I need to wait until I try the finished curry to be sure.
Joe, As you say, this is only my opinion so everyone needs to try for themselves. However I did remove my BIR water wings many years ago and have been reared on Glasgow's finest curries since :)
PS. Not sure if this is really significant, but I also added a couple of tablespoons of Knorr 'Touch of Taste' liquid chicken stock concentrate. I find this added some depth to my previous bases.
Oh, and my kitcken smells like a BIR. I can't help smiling every time I walk past the pot :)
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Seems logical, i`ll wait for confirmation from Mark then i`ll cook as big a version as i can in one pot ( 20 large Spanish Onions me thinks !!). ;D ;D ;)
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Darth - 30 tennis ball sized ones, medium I guess. They are not spanish but your common bulk onion in the supermarkets I suspect (I dont know for sure but I would be suprised if any BIR uses the red spanish onion in its base simply due to cost). Ive tried bases with normal onions and spanish.
I reckon the chicken stock is now a definate in the base for me, that liquid stock sounds interesting, Ill try it in my next base.
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Blade, do you want to post your full adapted recipe
cheers
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Thanks Mark, you know i might be able to squeeze them all in my pot ( Blood marvelous !! ;D ;D).
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That will be a bloody big pot!
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I don't know if one gas ring would be enough.
I suppose it just takes longer.
One chef, I know, said they have to use four rings to heat their pot.
In this takeaway they dont use the main range to cook the base, they have a seperate gas one ring burner that is bigger than anything on the stove. This unit is about 2 foot square.
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Yes its a Darthpan ;D ;D ;D ;D.
Mark is 500g of Passatta or Tomato Puree ok for the 30-35 onion batch ??
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Oh & did the Take-away guy tell you to put Chicken stock in the base mix ??
thanks Darth.
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Hi Darth, sorry I dont have the amount of tomato paste he used, he didnt mention chicken stock. I will next see this guy next wednesday so will ask him these questions then.
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My pleasure Mark, here goes............
10 onion base version
vegetable oil to cover large pan upto a height of 3/4 inch
3 tbl Garlic & Ginger paste (I used Laziza brand from an Asian grocer).Use 1.5 tbl if you have separate pastes.
1 tbl curry powder (I used Rajah)
1 tbl Turmeric
1 lvl tsp Chilli powder
10 tennis ball sized onions, chopped
2 celery stick chopped
1 green pepper chopped
2 large carrots chopped
1 tsp Salt
1.5 lvl tsp Garamasala (Natco is very nice)
1 tin tomatoes (450g) - or pasatta
handful of fresh coriander ripped or chopped
2 tbl Knorr 'Touch of Taste' liquid chicken stock concentrate
water
1) Heat oil until hot add the garlic and ginger and fry until brown, keep stirring
2) Add curry powder, turmeric and chilli powder and stir fry. Add some cold water (few tablespoons) when it starts to stick to the bottom of the pan. This frees it up instantly
3) Add the onions, carrots, green peppers and celery
4) add salt and garamasala and mix around
5) add tomatoes then add boiling water to cover the vegetables by an inch
6) once up to the boil, add liquid chicken stock and simmer on lowish flame for 1 hour
7) Liquidise - easiest way is to use a hand blender straight into the pot
8) Boil hard for 10 mins - the top of the sauce rolls just like the base you may have seen in BIRs
9) cook on low for another 5 mins, leave overnight.
all measures are rounded spoons unless it says lvl
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Thanks Mark i may wait till you get an answer as i`ve got more than enough frozen curry bases in the freezer ( sound familiar ;D ;D ).
Nice one Blade, do you think it makes any difference in using a tin of chopped Tomatoes as opposed to Passatta ?
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Darth, I ran out of Pasatta or I'd have used that instead. I prefer pasatta in my bases.
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Whats the difference between the Passatta & tinned tomatoes ?
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It is less bitter - basically the seeds a sieved out.
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Funny you should say that, as sometimes i get a slightly bitter aftertaste to my curries & Ive been trying to source it so i can remove the offending ingredient from my recipes ( although most of it is the amount of hot chili powder i think ).
Is Passatta more like Tomato Puree then ?
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It is not as concentrated as puree. Think of it as a liquidised tin of tomatoes with all the hard bits removed :)
Actually I'm interested in what the other are referring to as tomatoe paste - it sounds like something between pasatta and puree. Can anyone clarify what this is ?
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I'm off to Sainsbury`s then !! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Blade: I have made Pete's 600ml oil base with coriander stalks and I used ~20-30 stalks, I would suggest the same or a whole bunch of tesco/asda coriander that currently costs ~99p. I would also guess 500g passatta is about right, if maybe a bit too much, for 10 onions worth of base sauce in this recipe.
Where is this base recipe ? I looked around but can't see it.
Rather than wait until Wednesday :) I'm going to use this recipe posted by Curry King as the base is very similar
The Vindaloo:
3 tbsp Veg oil (approx, if you like it oily add more)
1 tsp Garlic & Ginger puree
Half a tbsp Tomato puree
3 or 4 tsp Chili powder
Tsp Curry Powder (mix)
6 Ladles of gravy
Small handful of chopped coriander (include the stalk)
Salt to taste
Pre-cooked chicken or meat
I think I'll add some fresh chillies as well as a tsp of methi and use ketchup intead of puree.
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The big question to my mind is that of scale, can you really just half all of the ingredients and try this kind of recipe? I don't know, is it just a case of halving all the spices & salt etc or should the spicing be kept the same??
I suggest you must reduce the spices and salt pro-rata with everything else. I simply cannot comprehend how any other approach would make sense.
Celery, carrots and chicken stock are very common ingredients in western soups, sauces and other dishes.
Does everyone agree that this latest 30 onion base has overtaken KD and Pete's 600ml oil version, amongst others as the very best version of a base sauce? I say 30 onions, but I would never make such a large quantity. I am confident that we could scale it down to, say, 5 onions, and still produce the very same flavour, texture and end result.
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I also wonder why we cannot scale this down (although i am going to cook the 30 onion version next weekend & i`ll post my results).
Does anyone really know why recipes cannot be scaled down, is it the fact that a large batch takes a little longer to achieve its optimum cooking temperature which in turn changes the characteristics & flavor of the oil .
I have found that you can make a curry very sweet by heating the oil on very high & literally cooking it for 10 minutes then putting in the ingredients, is it all down to the oil how long its cooked & how high perhaps this is why we cannot achieve the same result all the time ?? who knows but its fun anyhow !! ;D ;D ;D
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I couldn't wait for the end of the new curry base recipe so I guessed the coriander and tomato paste quantities.
I made it with ten onions.
I thought it was very important to keep the depth of oil mentioned (3/4 inch).
This actually meant using a frightening amount of oil.
Probably nearly a litre.
The recipe tied in very well with my ideas that we have been using too many spices.
The base seems good but no sign of the "taste"
Maybe you have got to have the thirty onions
I haven't added any chicken stock to it yet.
I am sure that it is in the finished base.
Where are people buying this Knorr liquid chicken stock from?
Asda (my local supermarket) hasn't got it.
I hate boiling up chicken bones and Knorr sounds a far better option.
Chicken Oxo doesn't work
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Would using the water from the separately cooked Chicken do ?
Or do you need to boil up bones an all !! for ages ?? :D
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Where is this base recipe ? I looked around but can't see it.
Here it is blade
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3.0
It has the browning of garlic/ginger like Marks recipe.
What puzzles me is why you have recipes like the above and then you have ones where you simply boil ingredients.
They both must be right, but chefs must apply different cooking tecniques to them.
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Would using the water from the separately cooked Chicken do ?
Or do you need to boil up bones an all !! for ages ??? :D
No, it's different.
You need to boil the bones for a couple of hours to extract the gelatin.
You need a few whole spices with it too.
You strain it and let it go cold.
It turns to a hard jelly.
Adding the water from the chicken you just cooked would improve a curry but it is different.
This Knorr Liquid Stock sounds promising though
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Pete, I got this liquid stock from Morrisons.
That's a bit of dissapoining result. I used the 10 onions - I posted the amounts for everything used in this thread.
What final curry did you try ? Give us a x/10 number
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I`m going to cook a 30 onion version & see once & for all what the real difference is when you cook in large quantities & i`ll get a bigger pot if i have too although i think the one i`ve got is big enough. I`ll post my results with ingredients & method in one post as not to confuse everybody. ;D ;D
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Pete, I got this liquid stock from Morrisons.
That's a bit of dissapoining result. I used the 10 onions - I posted the amounts for everything used in this thread.
What final curry did you try ? Give us a x/10 number
I think the base is good, but I was hoping for that extra something we are chasing.
What I really liked was that it didn't have a flavour that I thought was wrong.
Some bases seem too spicy.
Maybe I just need to leave it a day.
I think I may have fallen into the trap of getting too spiced out by the cooking, so I can't judge.
I will save my vindaloo and post tomorrow what I think.
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Nice one Pete will look forward to your results ;) ;) ;) ;)
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I`m going to cook a 30 onion version & see once & for all what the real difference is when you cook in large quantities & i`ll get a bigger pot if i have too although i think the one i`ve got is big enough.? I`ll post my results with ingredients & method in one post as not to confuse everybody. ;D ;D
Best of luck,Darth.
My cooker isn't large enough
The grill obstructs a large enough pot.
(My freezer isn't large enough for the result either)
You posted a while back that you felt, frozen bought curries, lost the taste after freezing.
The one's I have frozen, go a bit sloppy, but they still tasted very good (better than mine)
Good luck
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Yes they still taste good but oddly mine taste better after freezing (well the ones that were not so good at the time of being cooked which is good really because they get eaten & not wasted ).
But I'm getting very varied results as I'm trying so many different combinations of ingredients quantities & method etc.. etc..
I have high hopes for the recipe on this thread because it is very much the same as the one given to Curry King & myself.
The base mix tastes good enough to eat on its own .
The Celery is the main "new ingredient" which i did not get around to trying & i like the idea of putting it all in the pot ,i gather this would be less time consuming & therefore more than likely to be implemented by a Take-away. Do you agree ?? :) :)
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...I made it with ten onions...I thought it was very important to keep the depth of oil mentioned (3/4 inch).
This actually meant using a frightening amount of oil.
Probably nearly a litre.
The base seems good but no sign of the "taste"
... haven't added any chicken stock to it yet.
If I try this base, I will reduce the quantity of oil along with everything else, using a smaller pan so that the stuff being fried is at a similar level (deep fat frying vs. shallow frying) to the full 30-35 onions version, as far as one can tell.
There's no way I will ever believe that chicken stock adds 'the taste'. I use chicken stock quite frequently and it smells of...surprise, surprise...chicken...nothing like curry.
Yesterday, a delivery chap delivered a plastic carrier bag of what I assume to be an Indian take away to the house next door. I was ouside and he didn't come closer to 5 yards from where I was standing, as he walked quickly by. The familar BIR smell hit me first, quite strongly. Then I saw where it was coming from. I find this quite amazing. Whatever produces 'the smell' is so strong, it escapes between the tin cartons and lids, and out of a plastic bag held partly shut.
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If it`s that strong could it be Asafoetida as it gives of a very strong Onion aroma, which incidentally is what my local Take-away curries smell of, & i read somewere that this is what makes take-away`s smell like they do, but i hold reserve on that comment as i don't believe its the whole picture as ground Fenugreek is reputed to be a strong ingredient that is also added to bir curries.And a lot of mass produced Indian dishes & condiments ;) ;).
A thought has just struck me !!
If they say you cant re-create the take-away flavor at home because of the quantities is it because of the fact that Asafoetida is that strong that when we put half or a whole Teaspoon in a curry mix that it is so strong that it changes the flavor & makes it incorrect ,therefore should we only pit half a teaspoon in a 10 onion base & not in the final Curry & only a full Teaspoon in a full 30 Onion batch so i translates correctly mmm maybe ? .
something to think about. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
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Yesterday, a delivery chap delivered a plastic carrier bag of what I assume to be an Indian take away to the house next door. I was ouside and he didn't come closer to 5 yards from where I was standing, as he walked quickly by. The familar BIR smell hit me first, quite strongly.
I think this is where you and me disagree with the likes of Mark J. I think I can make a reasonably close copy of the restaurant flavour for the simple curries, but no matter what I try, they never have this unique unmistakable curry house curry smell. Until they do I won't believe anyone who says they have cracked the taste.
If it`s that strong could it be Asafoetida as it gives of a very strong Onion aroma
I'm pretty sure it's not asafoetida, although I have only tried the yellow powder type and not the brown resin type. I wonder what type the restaurants use?
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Anyone tried Fenugreek ???
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Anyone tried Fenugreek ???
Fenugreek has long been my best guess for 'the smell' but I thought it was dismissed by people here. Whatever 'the smell' is, it is spicy and strong. It's certainly not the difference between 1 and 30 onions, it's not chicken stock, it's not celery or carrots or anything like that. All those ingredients are used in western/English cooking and are not remotely like what I smelt wafting out of the almost sealed take away delivery bag, 5 yards away outdoors, yesterday. You'd be lucky to get that strong a smell from an expensive ladies perfume. It's incredibly strong and I'm amazed we don't already know what it is with 100% certainty.
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I made the chicken vindaloo last night and it was nice. In fact I could tell I had a quality base as some flavour came though that I don't normally get. But I think it was let down by the restaurant masala mix from the Curry House pages. It didn't seem to add the taste I was looking for - actually it was kinda bland. I think I'll go back to the coriander, cumin, garamasala version for my next attempt at the final dish.
I definitely think this base is as good as it gets, so it's down to the final recipe.
I also used Methi (fenugreek leaves), fresh chillies and ketchup in the final dish.
I believe Methi is the smell you are talking about - nothing else comes close. Maybe we need to add more ?
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Well, I've used fenugreek leaves and fenugreek seed, both whole and ground. I've used them in small and large quantities and I've tried adding them at the frying stage and adding them at the liquid stage. All I can say is that this does not give the restaurant curry smell that I recognise. Certainly the kasoori methi (dried curry leaf) has a very curry type smell to it and I do think it is an important part, but, at least to me, it just isn't the whole deal.
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The new curry base is good but on checking, today it is no closer than we have already been.
Their is definitely no trace of the "taste".
I made it with ten onions, and only put in one teaspoon of garam masala, but it really dominates the outcome.
Mind you, there may be some important instructions to come from Mark.
We have rather jumped the gun.
We made it without full instructions!!
But if we agree we have a good base and, as there are loads of witnessed curries being cooked, we can conclude that the magic is happening elsewhere.
Maybe it's in the precooking of the main ingredients.
Perhaps there is more to that, than meets the eye.
I have used and seen fenugreek used in curries.
There doesn't seem to be anything unusual there.
My kitchen smells like a restaurant now, but I know the REALLY strong smell people talk of.
I wondered if that might be the pre cooking of lamb.
I have never tried that.
Sometimes ,when I'm out on a Sunday,I smell people cooking their Sunday roast.
That smells, in some way, quite similar.
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kasoori methi (dried curry leaf)
Oops!? That should have been dried fenugreek leaf? ?:-\
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I tend to agree there is something in addition to Methi to give the overall smell/taste. The only other spice that has a really nice strong fragrance that I can think of is cloves.
I'm sure this was what I missed from my curry last night as I didn't use any garamasala.
How about a 1/4 tsp of ground cloves at the spice stage of the final curry........ worh a shot.
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I havent used asafoetida before, Ive got 2 types - one is from bart spices, the other is in a yellow container and comes from an asian grocer. I think I will try with the bart one as it is more concentrated.
Ill try this and fenugreek powder in a curry for one Im making tonight, how much do you guys reckon to add, Im tempted by half TSP fenugreek seed powder and 1/4 TSP asaf.?
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Try one at a time as i have & sometimes you Will get 100% right , but i think its a combination of ingredients & technique who knows ?? :).
Asafoetida is very strong (i`ve got the Bart one too !!).Use only a small amount in a single curry, unless of course the take-away`s use loads to achieve that smell you never know .
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How much do you use for one curry Darth?
And when do you add it?
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Hiya
Sorry, I don't mean to butt in - but as you're talking about asafoetida and fenugreek, which I use in my curries - I use between a quarter and a half level teaspoon of asafoetida and about a quarter of a level teaspoon ground fenugreek leaves, for one curry. The asafoetida is added as soon as the base sauce comes to the boil, and it really does mellow during cooking. The fenugreek I add about four minutes before serving, when the sauce is at a simmer. Personally, I won't go near ground fenugreek seeds anymore, as I poisoned too many curries in the early days with the stuff! :D
Hope this helps.
Ian
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You are more than welcome to butt in! Cheers Ian, on that note I might give the ground fenugreek a miss tonight ;D
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I agree quarter a teaspoon per portion, i put it in with all the other spices & as i indicated before use one at a time & find out which you prefer as they are quite powerfull spices & can really bugger ones curry :( :( :( :(,
Ian Ive also done this in the past & butt in whenever you wish, the more the merrier ;D ;D ;D
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I made another with this base that was much better that the one last night which didn't have garamasala.
2 tsp restaurant masala
1/2 tsp garamasala
lots of chopped chillies
2 tsp chillil powder
2 tbl ketchup
1 tbl methi
1 tbl chopped corriander
in total about 5 ladels of base.
I broke my coffee grinder yesterday after I made the masala, so I can't experiment with the ground cloves idea yet. What about ground fennel seeds, has anyone tried that ?
PS. Someone posted in another thread about using too much fresh corriander. I cut down the amount and I reckon it makes a positive difference.
Another small step towards Nirvana.
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Have you noticed we are all using less spices which if you think about it is cheaper,quicker & easier & that would be of great benefit if we were a Take-away would it not, & that most of us are much happier with our curries as they are now closer to a take-away curry than say 6 months ago .
Which leads to a good question for everyone on this forum.
Would you all agree that we are all making much better curries than 6 months ago, i most certainly am !! Better flavor & closer to my local Take-away.Anyone else ?? :)
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I think we couldnt help but all be making better curries than 6 months ago with all the ideas bouncing around this forum ;D
On another note I cooked a 1 portion curry last night with half a teaspoon of asafoetida and used my other fenugreek leaves that looked like the ones in my local.
I think the asa. definately added something and I will be using it again, I dont think the change of fenugreek leaves made much of a difference though. Bloody nice curry I must say ;D
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I'm now using only a smaller amount of spices and there is a definite improvement.
I'm very pleased with the improvement I've made since the forum started, but I don't use anybody's base im particular, but a little bit from different recipes, although it's closest to Bruce Edwards's, - minus the dreaded aijwan seeds of course.
If mine never gets any better, I will still always be happy with what I've now got.
blade1212
Re:earlier post - apologies, I thought you were a newbie(telling us your curry was outstanding) - (A'hv hud a good few roobies in Gibson Street, masel)
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Asafoetida. Just made a 4 Curry batch with Asafoetida & it gives a very savoury flavor much like my local BIR.
Although i do use it anyway, it deffinately worth a try folks !! ;) ;) ;)
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unique unmistakable curry house curry smell
The curry gravy sits in a pot on the stove.
I have never seen it with a lid on.
All the other cooking goes on around it.
Maybe it absorbs the general cooking smell.
I was told, when a chef comes in, to the restauarnt.
First thing he does is turn on tne tandoor.
Next he heats up enough curry gravy, for the evening, and adds the chicken stock (it doesn't go in til then)
He prepares some dhalls (including frying garlic til brown)
He starts the next day's curry gravy.
He prepares the kebabs (on skewers) and tandoori chicken.
He cooks the poppadoms.
If you were doing this at home, it would cause quite a pungent smell.
Maybe that's it
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MarkJ - I am so grateful to you for posting the "30-35 onions" base sauce recipe. Last night, I scaled it down roughly pro-rata to 2 onions, adapted it marginally, and ended up with by far and away the best base sauce I've ever made! I've no doubt other base sauces listed here at this forum are good. It just happens that this is the first one I've tried, and I'm very pleased I did.
I encourage others to try Mark's recipe. Don't be put off by thinking you need to make the 30-35 onions version. I'm not saying it won't be even better, but I somehow doubt it. The previous versions of base sauce which I have tried over many years came from 'The Curry Secret', curryhouse.co.uk and, of course, Pat Chapman. All required a lot more effort than the MarkJ recipe, and none came remotely close in terms of flavour at the end. I am very optimistic that this base sauce will allow me to produce a good BIR chicken korma and various other dishes.
The colour is yellow, definitely not red, despite 2 tsps tomato puree being added.
As I said, this base sauce tastes excellent but, in a way, that's irrelevant, if promising. It will only be proven when I use it to make a final dish.
Regards
George
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Mine always turns out Yellow also , but tastes nice none the less.
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I attribute the vastly superior taste of this sauce to the carrot, celery, green pepper
George, I totally agree, infact the addition of these vegetables to my usual base sauce has been about the only advance I've made in the many years I've been trying to replicate the restaurant flavour and that's thanks to this forum.
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The colour is yellow, definitely not red, despite 2 tsps tomato puree being added
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Yes i agree it is yellow after you puree in a blender.? I find however that when you put it back on the boil after this stage it reduces back to a dark brown/red.
In addition when you actually use the base to make a curry on high heat you reduce it down again and with the addition of spices and tomato puree mine always turn out just like the curry house dark brown, rich and lovely.
Let us know how you get on cooking your next curry with it!!
S 8)
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One thing I forgot to say was to discard the bay leaf after the simmer, before hitting the liquidizer.
The yellow colour, from the tumeric presumably (0.5 tsp alone and a key ingredient of the curry powder), is no problem for my no.1 target dish - a BIR style chicken korma. In fact this base sauce tastes almost like a korma already and is almost spot on for colour and texture!
My no.2 target dish is the BIR vegetable curry which normally comes with a chicken biryani. Now, that is brownish, with perhaps a hint of red. From your comments, and my findings with other base sauces, the yellow colour will hopefully subside when I try making that.
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My no.2 target dish is the BIR vegetable curry which normally comes with a chicken biryani.
George was it you who was looking for a recipe for chicken biryani? What recipe are you using?
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George was it you who was looking for a recipe for chicken biryani? What recipe are you using?
Yellow Fingers - I may well have asked before. I can't remember! But I don't have any specific recipes in mind for the two-part BIR chicken biryani which I hope to replicate: neither (a) the main rice-based part with the chicken in it, nor (b) the vegetable curry side dish. Perhaps there are some pointers here at this forum.
I believe part (a) is based on curry sauce + pre-cooked pilau rice + pre cooked chicken + some spices
and part (b) might be curry sauce + pre-cooked vegetables + spices including fenugreek, a bit like for chicken madras, but not as much chilli.
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George thats excellent news, tomorrow I visit the man again and will find out the following:
How much tomato paste, fresh corainder in his quantity of base and will also ask him about chicken stock/jelly in the base
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If some distinctly above-average recipes appear on this site, then perhaps some of the lesser BIR chefs may actually improve their dishes by taking selected ideas on board, e.g. by adding carrot and celery to their base sauce, if they don't do so already.
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George thats excellent news, tomorrow I visit the man again and will find out the following:
How much tomato paste, fresh corainder in his quantity of base and will also ask him about chicken stock/jelly in the base
Mark, if you get the chance can you ask him how he makes chicken biryani please? I'm particularly interested in the spices used.
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OK, I have been back to the guy and this is what he said:
He adds only 1 heaped cooks spoon of tomato paste to the base, I was amazed it was this little so double checked this twice but this is what he said. I asked if he added any other form of tomato and he said no, just this.
He adds a whole bunch of fresh coriander.
I asked if he uses chicken stock in the base and he said yes!, he says he adds it after the water, ie not the day after its made. I asked him if it was the stock or the jelly and he said not the jelly.
As I was leaving he said to tell him how I get on, I told him a few people have made this and one guy even plans to make the 30 onion full version and this tickled him ;D. His comment to us all was that we just need to keep practicing :-\
YF - I will see how he makes a biryani next time I am there (I will have to order it to watch him cook it)
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That's fantasic Mark.
Thank you so much, for such a detailed report.
I am glad to see, that I wasn't crazy, and chicken does go into the base.
No one else had been able to confirm this.
I guess the "taste" either comes from the chicken stock he uses, or because he makes in large quantities (which I don't understand, but might have to accept)
The next question to this man could be "how does he make this stock?"
If that is the "taste" then you will have completely solved the riddle.
When I added the chicken jelly to my base, it brought the flavour very close to what I wanted.
Maybe yours (and I'm hoping) will be exact.
Thanks again
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Its a pleasure to return the favour Pete ;D, next time I will ask him how he makes his stock
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He adds only 1 heaped cooks spoon of tomato paste to the base, I was amazed it was this little so double checked this twice but this is what he said. I asked if he added any other form of tomato and he said no, just this.
I always thought that the base recipes that added a lot of tomato were wrong because people who have seen the restaurant base sauce have generally said that they are yellow or bright yellow and the more tomato you add the more orange/brown the base becomes, so this seems to confirm what I thought.
YF - I will see how he makes a biryani next time I am there (I will have to order it to watch him cook it)
Thanks Mark, I look forward to it.
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Nice one Mark, i`m really confident we are going to get there in the near future & its nice to see a chef being so helpfull for a change.
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One more thing i will be cooking the 30 onion recipe next week so wish me luck people(all that peeling I'm not looking forward to !!) :(
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One more thing i will be cooking the 30 onion recipe next week so wish me luck people(all that peeling I'm not looking forward to !!) :(
If you are going to all that trouble, it might be worth waiting for the chicken stock question.
It might really change the flavour a lot
Thirty onions is not good news!
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One more thing i will be cooking the 30 onion recipe next week so wish me luck people(all that peeling I'm not looking forward to !!) :(
Good luck to you if this is what you really want to do. I suggest, however, that the "R&D payback" is likely to be a lot greater by cooking 15 batches of basic sauce, comprising two onions each, with 15 lots of variations.
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Good luck to you if this is what you really want to do. I suggest, however, that the "R&D payback" is likely to be a lot greater by cooking 15 batches of basic sauce
I'd have to agree, a 30 onion batch is one hell of a big one to waste if there's only perhaps one or two key ingredients missing. Mind you that's probably only a week's worth of vindaloos for Darth? :D
One more thing i will be cooking the 30 onion recipe next week so wish me luck people(all that peeling I'm not looking forward to !!) :(
Darth you could top and tail the onions, wash them and bung them whole into boiling water for several minutes to soften the skins, they're easily peeled and chopped then (thanks to Ghanna for the original idea)
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This great news Mark.
I reckon they don't mess around making stock in the majority of BIRs - it takes too long and I bet most of them use frozen chicken breasts rather than cut up whole chickens.
For me, we have a base that is as good as we're going to get it. I found the celery was the killer ingredient. Hopefully using less tomato will add another dimension to it. So let's go with chicken stock cubes or the liquid stock to get going here. With all that then, surely 95% of the 'the taste' has got to be the final dish.
In the meantime since we are so close, I would like to propose we do a Saturday curry fest where everyone makes a version of this base and reports back results. We need a score out of 100 for :
1) the base
2) the final curry
3) 'the taste' factor
along with the final dish recipe.
come on guys, you know it makes sense...... :) :)
PS Mark, along with the biryani next week.... please get a lovely madras or vindaloo !!! I'll pay you ?10, honest :)
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Mark, I meant to also say, how much corriander is a bunch ? if you were to hold the stems together, what diameter of a circle would this make for a 30 onion version ?
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To show me how much coriander he held up his hand with fore finger to thumb in a circle about the size of a 10p piece, what that means is anyones guess!
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It makes perfect sense to me............. I think I need to go out more
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Lol!
I suppose thats his hand around the stalks so my guess is the 99p tesco open bunch of coriander, not the ~60p tesco bunch in a plastic case
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Like the idea of many different batches , but i think I'm that close it wont matter as now my Curries are ace !! & i know everyone else makes grand Curries because of this site & that we are all bloody marvelous people aren't we !!!
So its a 30(i already do 15 onion batches !!).
Like the boiling idea thanks.
I had another curry for work today, thats 4 plus one tomorrow & shall i have a Indian this weekend mmm oh alright ( & ill order the Vegetarian dish to see if it does have those little Chicken bits in & moan & find out what they are ;) ;) ).
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It makes perfect sense to me............. I think I need to go out more
Don't do it blade. It'll start innocently enough, you'll casually sneak a peek at menus in the windows of indian restaurants for clues to vital ingredients, but this won't be enough to satisfy your craving, oh no. Within a few days you'll be skipping work to make sure you can be outside the curry house when the spice delivery man calls so you can furtively scan his wares. Then, all too soon, you'll be skulking at the back of self same restaurants till the wee small hours hoping to glimpse a cooking technique as Ahmed comes out to dispose of the old oil. Eventually you'll be found half in and half out of an indian restaurant waste bin gibbering about little white bits and chicken stock inbetween nibbling the contents! Noooo, stay in it's safer.
Hmm, perhaps I should go out more? :D? ?Gibber :P twitch ;)
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You`ve been watching me haven't you !! , cluck cluck gibber gibber my old mans a Mushroom etc etc.. :P ??? :P ??? :o
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blade1212
Re:earlier post - apologies, I thought you were a newbie(telling us your curry was outstanding) - (A'hv hud a good few roobies in Gibson Street, masel)
Thanks Joe, I've still got everything to learn, but the Glasgow curry shops are among the best I've tried so they are my baseline .....
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Hi George,
since making the scaled down version of the Mark J 30 onion base, have you produced any finished dishes using it? If so, were they any good? And if they were would you post them on this forum if you haven't already done so.
Cheers,
Blondie
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Blondie
For two days I've been meaning to use my base sauce to make a BIR chicken korma. Hopefully, I will get around to it today, and trust the base sauce may have improved (if anything) in the fridge, rather than gone downhill. If the base sauce has deteriorated, I will simply make another batch of base sauce. That recipe is so easy and straightforward because cooking time is short and nothing is likely to burn, so you don't need to stand over it all the time.
I even got as far as mixing creamed coconut into evaporated milk as suggested by Ghanna. Incidentally, where has Ghanna got to? Much missed. Anyway, creamed coconut will be in my first attempt at BIR chicken korma. I suspect that restaurants are more likely to use coconut flour so I'll try that next time. On the other hand, I'm not intersted in any old BIR chicken korma - I'd like to make it as good as the best I've had. Perhaps that means using coconut cream (more expensive) rather than coconut flour. I even read that some restaurants don't put coconut in chicken korma at all - only in CTM.
None of my comments relate to authentic Indian chicken kormas, only to BIR chicken kormas.
Regards
George
Update 29 May: I made my first recent attempt at a BIR chicken korma last night, with minimal spicing as suggested by Ghanna. It wasn't bad for a first attempt and was certainly 'in the frame' for a BIR chicken korma. But I feel the lack of additional spices made it the type which I am not so keen on, but which you do find at some BIR's. So I will experiment further, and when I have a recipe I am pleased with, I will report back.
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I`ve sent Ghanna a message asking if she is fine etc & that we hope to hear from her. ;D ;D ;D
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I`ve sent Ghanna a message asking if she is fine etc & that we hope to hear from her. ;D ;D ;D
Her?
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I assumed Ghanna was female, sorry if i`m incorrect Ghanna were ever you are ;D ;D ;D ;D
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He dissappeared after this was posted. Not sure if he took it personally.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=237.msg1803#msg1803
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Don't see why ???
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I assumed Ghanna was female, sorry if i`m incorrect Ghanna were ever you are ;D ;D ;D ;D
This sounds awful, but I wasn't sure so I avoided writing 'his' or 'her' in my message. If only everyone would comple a few lines of their 'profile' section at this forum...
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Actually in Ghanna's last post she/he was about to have a local chef to dinner and was going to grill him for the taste secret. Obviously she/he succeeded but the local indian restaurant mafia must have got wind of it and silenced him/her. What's the Bangladeshi equivalent of wearing concrete boots?? ?:D
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Yes i agree we should give a little information about ourselves to give this forum a more informal & friendly atmosphere.
Being from down here in Cornwall we are very insulated from the rest of the UK & its troubles, yes it is a great place to live, very relaxed, if you come down on holiday try to steer away from the holiday route ( Deliverance it is not , sqweeeelllll Piggy !!)
& you`ll see what i mean i will check my profile & add some info & it would be nice if everyone else did the same.
All the best DARTHPHALL( the Cornish curry monster !!!!)
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& in answer to another question from a member i think Blondie is female( there is a feminine level headedness about her posts & she said i was evil in a nice way ;D ;D ;D ).
Well Blondie am i right or am i presumptuous idiot ?
(that wont be the first time folks ;D ;D)
As you can see i prefer candor & not to hide the truth ( political correctness is a falsehood & not to be adopted by those who live in the real world). ;)
Could you imagine a politically correct curry !! bland & spiceless if thats OK with everyone !!!(need a smiley with no face here !!).
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Hi Darthphall,
It wasn't me that called you "evil but in a nice way" it was Curry Queen.
I suppose you have made up your mind that that person is Female because of the queen in the name, just as you assume that I am female because you rightly suppose that I am Blonde.
I thought we were supposed to be talking curry anyway,
cheers all,
Blondie
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Correct !!
I got the ingredients for the big batch.I`m going for a 15 onion mix as suggested & i found Passatta in Sainsbury`s today ;D ;D, so in the next few days i`ll report on my result & if its successful in any way i`ll post a thread etc..etc.. 8).
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Hi everyone
I made a scaled down version of this base on Friday. It's been sitting in the fridge and I'm going to make a curry up tonight with it. I followed George's procedure (thanks, George!) but scaled to two pounds of onions - scaled down from the full recipe, not up from George's. It's given me about four litres of base.
However, I must have done something wrong somewhere. It doesn't smell or taste much different from my 'tweaked' KD version at this stage - despite the extra ingredients. That's not a criticism of the recipe or anything - I was just expecting the celery and pepper to make more of a difference. Another problem is that despite pureeing for over two minutes (two litres at a time) I haven't managed a very smooth result. I'm wondering if this is because I didn't cook the base for long enough - but I did cook it for the full hour rather than 30 mins before blending.
A very likely explanation is that my blender blades are worn out after three years of use! ::) George, how smooth was your puree after 30 mins?
One thing that did happen, though - after having browned the garlic and ginger, I added the spice paste to the hot oil and wallop! The 'smell' hit me. Bingo! I thought. But then it disappeared when I added the onions. I assumed this was just me getting used to the smell, but it's definitely gone from the base now - it just smells of onions and garlic.
Anyway, proof of the pudding and all that... I've got a carton of Oxo 'Real Stock' (chicken) liberated from my partner's larder. I didn't get round to making up the proper version this time. I'll intoduce it bit by bit during the dish stage and see what happens - if it makes the right sort of difference, I'll try adding it to the base. :)
Ian
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On the few occasions i got the smell of my Curries right i browned the fresh Garlic & Ginger, so we may have leaped forward here !!! ;D
I cooking a 15 or 20 onion version in the next day or so 8), I will use the water from the cooked chicken as my alternative to stock ;).
Ian s don't give up !!
I had a great difference in taste/smell once i added Green Peppers & Carrots, you could have eaten the base as a curry itself it tasted that good (you were right Curry King!! 8)).
& don't forget that mark was specifically told you cant emulate a take-away curry because of the quantity you must cook to achieve the correct flavor/smell .
i`ll force as much ingredients in my large pot as i can & see if a large batch makes any difference at all !!
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A very likely explanation is that my blender blades are worn out after three years of use! ::) George, how smooth was your puree after 30 mins?
Ian - after 30 mins simmering my mix was still very chunky because it had lots of roughly chopped onions, carrots, etc in it. But after I put it through my Kenwood Chef liquidizer (not a food prcocessor) for about 2 mins, it was silky smooth.
The taste of my base sauce is much better than anything I made from a KD recipe.
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you could have eaten the base as a curry itself it tasted that good (you were right Curry King!! 8)).
I agree. It really is that good, even though the only real test is whether it makes equally good final BIR curries such as Chicken Korma, Lamb Rogon Josh, CTM, Biryani vegetable curry side dish, etc, etc.
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Which reminds me..hey Mark did you get a Vindalloo/Tindalloo recipe from your chef friend ??
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Not yet, I tend not to have madras/vindaloo etc, I would always ask for a jalrezi extra hot instead
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OK I`LL MAKE A VINDALLO FROM the recipe`s i have so far & see what happens. 8)
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Hi all, I made the 15 onion gravy last night and I have to say that you could definately eat it as it stands now without adding anything at all. I simmered my onions for longer and also once blitzed I found that I had to simmer for more than 10minutes and then another 5 for the oil to rise to the top. Apart from that it is looking very promising indeed. I shall make a vindaloo and report back.
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It's me again! Forgot to add that I often add celery and carrots to my base if I have them lurking about and yes, of course green peppers. The only difference to me with this base is the use of extra turmeric, chilli powder and garam masala.
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i`m doing the 20 onion base today wish me luck i`ll report my findings as soon as i can ,sometime this evening. 8)
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Base seems just like the other one most of us are using ( Peppers, Carrots , Celery etc..etc..).
I believe this is good enough for a base, but sincerely believe the taste we are all after is in the second phase.
Tomorrow i`ll see if the base is that much different but i don't think so .But surely a Vindalloo is a Vindalloo !! so there shouldn't be that much difference in overall taste from take-away to take-away !!!
Some of the ingredients in my local that are visible in he curry are actually part of the Goan recipe you see often on the net & in books, but when you make it well tastes unlike the Bir one we love.
Its a shame so few members are active on this forum some have asked if all the members went in to there local Bir & asked just 1 question & we collated them all that we would get the answer , maybe .. but there are too many just sitting back & waiting for the active minority to do all the experimenting & not bothering to answer questions some have asked( i have a thread that has been read over 33 times & there isn't a single answer/comment, it is a valid question !!).
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Yep if all the 255 members of this forum went into a takeaway and asked a question each.....
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& just think if all 225 members were active on the forum as well instead of waiting for the minority to post their finds !!!! ;)
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I wish I had a local takeaway!? I'd love to be able to get Indian food at moderate prices.? There are some "white tablecloth" Indian restaurants nearby, but they're expensive.? When my London-residing son visits, he's always amazed at the price of a curry.? ?And we've already discussed here the sad fact that USA-IR's don't have the taste.? Maybe I could find out what not to do? :D
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Indian take-away food is expensive (? 4.75 for a average curry !!) I knew there was a reason for learning how to copy them !! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Indian take-away food is expensive (? 4.75 for a average curry !!)
A chicken vindaloo costs $12.95 (7.10? British pounds at today's rate).? Many restaurants have a lunch buffet for $8.95, but supper is strictly off the menu.? And they really overcharge for bread, rice, and pickle, not to mention lager!? Yes, better to cook at home!
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& i thought everything in the UK was the most expensive in the world !!!
Tested my new batch this morning as i suspected no much difference from yesterday(little bit tastier thats all!!), funny you know the batches always stay consistent that way(perhaps its true, you should blend next day otherwise you can lose flavor,anyone had this ??).
Now the experimental curry i made is really tasty today.Fresh Tomatoes are not the secret(tried them on there own in this one).
Has anyone got the recipe or link to a thread for the second stage of a Vindalloo that they believe is the closest to a take-away, i`m going to try a few this week even if it means throwing away some,
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Okay, I've had a couple of experiments with the base now. (On Saturday, I actually had a bought curry from my favourite local takeaway, so my cooking over the past couple of days has had a lot to live up to!)
It might be worth mentioning here that although the base was yellow after pureeing, when I returned it to the pan and cooked on high for 10 minutes and low for 5, it actually turned a caramel brown colour. Of the four or five takeaways I've ordered from over the past couple of years, all but one of them has a finished vindaloo this colour, so that's not necessarily a bad thing. However my favourite takeaway produces a vindaloo that's bright orangy red - really quite vibrant by comparison.
Anyway on Sunday I wanted to add as little to the base as possible, to get the flavour of it. I brought 3/4 of a pint of it to the boil in 1 chef's spoon of oil. Then I added pre-cooked meat, 2 tsp of chilli powder (well, cayenne pepper actually - my local market's spice stall was out of chilli this week) and 1/2 teaspoon of salt. After three or four minutes I reduced it to a simmer and added 1/4 teaspoon of ground dried methi. Four minutes later I turned off the heat, sprinkled fresh coriander and let it stand for five minutes before serving (about the time it takes to drive to my house from my local takeaway!).
And... it was nice. A nice, tasty curry. But no trace of 'that' taste or smell.
So last night I heated a chef's spoon of oil, and added a teaspoon each of very finely chopped onion and green pepper, sizzling on high heat untill the onion started to colour. Then I added a splash of base and evaporated it off. Then I added cayenne (as above), 1/2 teaspoon of asafoetida, salt and a teaspoon of spice mix from this site - the one Pete posted which is all equal measures (can't for the life of me remember which thread it's in but I'll do a search after this).
I stirred this for about 30 seconds and then added the rest of the curry gravy. Then I added 100ml of the Oxo 'Real Stock'. This stuff is really watery, and smells of - er - well, just chicken, really! But I thought I might as well try it. I let this bubble away for 5 minutes, then turned it down to simmer so the oil could separate and be skimmed off. Added coriander, and left it to rest.
This was good - I've had disappointing bought curries that were about as good. And that seems to be where I'm at no matter what I've tried so far.
If anything, it was a little over-rich and over-spiced. And it was brown. Tonight I'm going to do exactly the same but leave out the spice mix and chicken stock - it's clearly nothing like Pete's jelly recipe (and nothing like the stock that produces, I would think). But I'm going to cook it before I go out tonight, and reheat it in a casserole dish when I get home - to make sure my palette's clear before I taste it.
Thanks, Mark, for sharing the base recipe with us. I'm really looking forward to hearing the results from people that are cooking it in bulk, and any more info from the chef himself about recipes. Even if he's right - that we'll never be able to do it at home, no matter what - it's still really interesting and fun to try it anyway. And tasty! :)
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However my favourite takeaway produces a vindaloo that's bright orangy red - really quite vibrant by comparison.
Sounds like food colouring!
Thanks, Mark, for sharing the base recipe with us.? I'm really looking forward to hearing the results from people that are cooking it in bulk, and any more info from the chef himself about recipes.? Even if he's right - that we'll never be able to do it at home, no matter what - it's still really interesting and fun to try it anyway. And tasty! :)
My pleasure, I think the most telling thing the chef told me was that when he cooked curry for his kids at home they would often ask for the curry from his takeaway rather than his home cooked curries. Maybe he was doing authentic at home, I dont know
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Bright orange could also indicate few spices & plenty of Turmeric ( have you noticed how Take-away Curry stains things worse than your home-made mmmmm !!).
There is another post here somewere about Resteraunt Masala ( Paprika & Turmeric dominated this mix did it not ??). ;)
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Yes, I thought about food colouring... but it's not quite that bright and red.
Actually last night's (Thursday's) curry was the best using this base so far, and I managed to get the colour more reddy-golden. The only differences to the last version I posted were:
After the chopped onion and pepper were flashed off, I added one very heaped tsp of tomato puree and stir fried it untill it had completely broken up, spread around the pan and almost disappeared - it turned the onions pink. Then I added a splash of base and immediately added 2 heaped tsp chilli powder, 1/2 tsp of spice mix and just a pinch of gound methi. The spices cooked as the curry evaporated, and what was in the pan turned a deep red. I evaporated this almost dry and then splashed in some chicken stock and the rest of the gravy, and carried on as above. I left out the salt completely.
Also, breaking a rule of mine, but out of interest, I stirred in a good pinch of fresh coriander to the curry as it was simmering a couple of minutes before the end (with the rest added as above).
It really was quite good. I'm at the end of the batch now, but I'm going to have to try this again next time - perhaps a bit earlier in the evening (and a bit more sober! ::))
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I made another batch of the 10 onion version yesterday and it is not as good as last weeks version - not as sweet and 'full bodied' as the last one.
The only difference was I used a couple of tbl of passata insead of a whole tin of tomatoes and used less water.
I'll try out a madras later today as it might work out OK for the final dish.
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Ian.s
Having made some very bright Curries i know you can make them very colourfull without food colorings,
leaving out Chili powder & replacing with Chilies will allow the Turmeric brighten up the Curry.As with my Darth-Masala !! ( will post soon ).
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Hi Mark
when I initially made the curry gravy recipe I was a little dissapointed.
I froze most of it.
But since I got a sample of real curry gravy, from my takeaway I thought I would compare yours to it.
It is so close.
It looks about the same too.
That is a really good recipe.
I feel a lot better now that I know exactly what I am aiming for.
I was thinking the curry base had to have the "taste" in it.
I was wrong
Thanks
Here's a comparison photo
Your gravy is the one on the left
If you can still find out his chicken stock recipe (for the gravy), that would be brilliant!
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Mmmmm Looks too close to call . Are both the recipes for these in this forum somewhere ?
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Excellent, thanks for the photo pete, Ill quiz him again on chicken stock next time I see him (week wednesday)
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good photos...really shows the bright orange of the oil on the right. I think more turmeric (& paprika?) is the order of the day!
The base certainly does look close though..anyone know where the recipe is?
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I scaled down the version on the first page
I made it with eight onions, so divided all measurements by 4
I cooked it for two hours
If you follow the thread there are several people who tried a few variations
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Yep mine turned out a bright Orange/Yellow & i agree loads of Turmeric in the base as my local BIR Curries stain my white sink very easily. :)
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If you can still find out his chicken stock recipe (for the gravy), that would be brilliant!
Hi Pete,
Finally had a chance to find this info out, I was there last week but there were other customers present and I didnt think it at all fair to discuss this delicate topic with an audience ;D
Basically he uses the jelly exactly as you found out, he said it takes ages much longer than the base, boil the carcass for hours with turmeric, cinamon, cardamom,bay etc then skim the jelly off when cold.
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Thanks ever so much , Mark
It confirms what I've benn told from several restaurant chefs
The jelly has such a distinct smell that I recognised from the gravy
It's just a bit yuck to make
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OK, I chatted to the guy again tonight and have his recipe for making up his standard sized pot of base sauce
He was at great pains to be wary of adding too much chilli, salt and garam masala. Too much of any of these will ruin the base and are irreversible.
Now what I find particularly interesting is the use of garam masala
This spice mix has black cardamom in
That is the spice I felt was missing from the Kris Dhillon recipe.
When chatting to chefs, about a missing "taste", black cardamom was mentioned twice.
Perhaps it is considered as the most important spice for the base
In isolation it has a foul smell, almost medicinal
But the curry gravy I froze, leaving them in, had this warm flavour when thawed out.
Nothing like it's original character
If you sifted out the pods they were the source
Totally changed
If left in, for any length of time, you really don't need much
If the curry houses are keeping their base for three days, then this spice's effect would really evolve
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I think it'd be helpful if from now on, we actuallt specified the weight of onions used in our bases, rather than the number. Onions can vary quite a bit in size, and we could all be ending up with quite different amounts on onions in our base if we just go by number.
KD's recipe for example is very precise - there are no 'x cloves of garlic', 'x onions' - its all done in grams.
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I agree TH, the most recent base Im using specifies 350gms of trimmed onions, no mistaking that amount!
Trouble is a number of these recipes we have got from chefs and they dont specifiy exact quantites, when I spoke to the take away man he said 30 onions, I quizzed him and got it down to tennis ball sized, but that was it.
Also I asked him how long does he pre fry his onions for and of course his answer was 'until they are done'
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Trouble is a number of these recipes we have got from chefs and they don't specify exact quantities.
Also I asked him how long does he pre fry his onions for and of course his answer was 'until they are done'
Thats the problem they are experienced to the point of doing everything by sight and don't weigh or measure anything. Ive not had a single recipe from a chef thats been explained in detail, always a bit of this a bit of that but not to much ::)
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:'( I only have a halogen hob...I'll get me coat... :'(
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hi currychris
don't worry as i have a knob too. but i still churn oout a bloody good currry. it is all in the cooking of the final curry. cooking of the spices, generous amount of oil reused if you can and not burning it :)
these with the room and the money have the luxury of gas burner and can even flambe the only advantage of these is that the flame is so high if cooks from the outside in and ours just cooks in the centre so we can't just leave it we have to be more vigilant and stir regularly so as to ensure that it does not stick to the bottom of the pan >:(
i do find that using the lid to my wok helps with the speed of cooking to acheiving the same results. finally if you remove the curry from the heat and let it settle and cool slightly the taste is .................well you decide ;)
regards
gary
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Cheers Gary,
I do have an aldi gas barbeque but it takes about 45 mins to cook one sausage on it so I'd be b****ered with a massive pot of base sauce on there. I do get by with our halogen but I wish I could be let loose on a big gas stove....luxury! ::),
Chris
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I've got a Turbo charged Halogen hob & it makes bloody fine Curries so have no fear matey, you'll soon be cooking ace Curries in no time ;D
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I use a gas - fired Jenn-air wok - the high heat is well controlled and critical for the key stages of prep . I am not a big fan of the so-called flamb? technique in BIR ( this is more style than substance ) . I do however feel that controlled high heat over short periods does produce superior flavours that are reproducible . As the name suggests, flambeing is a process of "flaming" off alcohol by igniting it. As opposed to boiling off alcohol, flambeing caramelizes the sugar in the liquor slightly, producing a subtle, sweet, roasted aroma. It also makes a very dramatic presentation of dishes . Since BIR chefs do not use liquor , setting light to oil does absolutely nothing to improve the flavour of a dish other than making it taste like a burnt carcinogenic offering . For those that wish to incorporate carbon - :( I would be interested to hear what C P has to say based on his experience . Most of the Indian chefs that I know do not " flame their dishes as a matter of fact ... if it happens by accident , the flames are retarded by reducing the heat in order to preserve the original desired flavour - after all not too many patrons enjoy everything tasting like burnt toast . Guy Fawkes day should be observed on November 5th , not in the curry kitchen .
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CC is mostly correct. No Asian chef as far as I am aware uses a Flambe technique as a standard process, they do occasionally flash off Pasanda, which should have a red wine content (did you know that wine is said to have originated in India?). However, CC is also correct in a sense that flaming a dish to incinerate it is also not done, but all Asian chefs (Chinese & Thai also) do allow the fat/steam mixture to catch fire because it is difficult to stop it and also it does impart that special flavour. The food itself does not catch fire but the superheated oil/gas mixture above it does and then atomises over the Kharai/pan/Wok and some of it falls back in to the pan again to impart that fast food flavour. Whilst on the subject, a lot of BIRs use cast iron or rolled steel (like wok steel) frying pans for cooking the individual portions. I have a great rolled steel one (from India) that is about 12 inches diameter with a very long steel handle. I always use this for individual portion fast cooking.
Happy Cooking
C P
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Thanks for the info CP .
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According to Wikipeadia ( http://en.wikipedia.org (http://en.wikipedia.org) ) it is still unclear where wine came from.. makes interesting reading > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine#Early_history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine#Early_history)
Regards Ashes
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I did a straw-poll of nine Indian restaurants in my neighbourhood...all use a base and none flame any of the ingredients . All chefs insisted that they prep their base ingredients at a controlled high heat ... all spicing was then added at critical intervals - the pre - cooked meat was added at the end . I surmise that that this is yet another indication that restaurant or BIR recipes plus their method , whether from the UK or elsewhere can be totally individual . There is no one unique base , there is no one unique spicing technique . If that were the case , every restaurant recipe would taste the same . I think that the only given here is that traditional Indian recipes render a tried and true flavour whereas the BIR recipes are constantly evolving in order to pacify the flavour of the day and incorporate new culinary ideas .
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Absolutely right CC! I like your point about the 'flavour of the day' because, as with any market, it is all about creating something new, and in a lot of cases its not new just a variation on an old theme. When I first started out professionally some of customers complained that my meals were not the same each time; near but not exact. I explained to them that is they were always exactly the same, I would not enjoy the cooking and they would get bored and drift elsewhere, I still retain those customers!!! I just posted a review about a new restaurant in Salisbury that everyone is raving about as nouveau contemporary Asian cuisine. With no offence to their excellent restaurant, it is not really new as this was a very popular style in a lot of Manchester and London restaurants back in the 60s and early 70s, i.e. real Indian influenced by Gujarati style.
This why I you and the other 'old pros' I note often reply in a similar vein to newbie requests. This is an exciting adventure, never boring and the end results are wonderful when you get it right. I would say it is impossible to replicate the cuisine of your local restaurant because the averge domestic cook doesn't have the base recipe , the cooking facilities, and means to work in large volumes.
As to Ashes' reply on the origins of wine Wickpedia is probably right; it's my humour I guess as a fan of 'Goodness Gracious Me' everything was inventend or made by Indians if you get my drift.
Anyway, as always it is good to have these exchanges as it clarifies to all that this is not a precise art.
Happy Cooking
C P
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hi I just joined today, and congratulations on a wonderful site, i was wondering if the base has chicken stock in surely vegetarians would be upset.. I myself dont think that stock is added to curry base
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Hi heat required .
Welcome to our humble curry kingdom . If you do an on site search for chicken stock , you will see that this topic has been discussed at length - makes for good reading .
CC
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thanks ,it sure looks like ive landed i`ll post more when ive time
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Passata
Passata is just sieved tomato pulp.
It can be bought in packets or jars in supermarkets and delis; there are various brands including store own brands and prices vary. It is usually stocked near to the pasta sauces and tomato purees.
You can dilute it, add herbs, sugar, whatever to the pulp later depending on the recipe.
It is easy to make homemade passata:
Any variety of tomato will do, even green if you want tart green sauce. If you grow tomatoes, you might like to try plum tomatoes.
the amount of tomatoes you need depends on the amount of tomato pulp required: I use about 1 pound (450g) of tomatoes for a 4 person serving recipe.
if using fresh tomatoes:
pierce the skin with the point of a sharp knife, put the tomatoes into a deep casserole (pan whatever) of very hot boiled water, off the heat, on a flat surface. Cover with a lid and leave for about a minute until the skin
starts to split, then, with a large spoon to take out each tomato, peel the skin off.
You may need to change the water for fresh hot boiled water to get the remaining tomatoes to peel easily: as the water cools, the peel hardens and it becomes harder to strip off.
Put the tomatoes, a few at a time, into a sieve ( wire or plastic), placed over a bowl and use some kind of pestle ( I use the end of a rolling pin (pastry roller)); gently push the tomato flesh through the sieve by rubbing
with the pestle in a side to side motion; the pulp is caught in the bowl below leaving the seeds behind in the sieve. The pulp in the bowl is the passata.
Or you could chop the tomatoes very finely; first remove the skins and seeds.
You could sieve tinned tomatoes after removing the seeds, or tinned chopped tomatoes which have the skins and seeds removed - more expensive.
Some people suggest using tomato juice or diluted tomato paste as a substitute but I don't unless it's an absolute emergency: I think the best results are from either shop bought product or fresh tomatoes.
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I thought I would try Marks base recipe and have just spent ages ploughing through this thread. Did any write down the original recipe in full as it got modified through Mark's patient research? Did anyone write down the recipe that uses less onions as originally proposed by Darth. I know this is an old thread but there is something about Mark's base that rings a bell from the past, and I want to try the final version
Thanks
CP
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cp
i don't understand what you mean :-[ as i have been around since beginning i may have some printouts of the recipes. did anyone copy and paste the updates into one final recipe for this base? and i'm intrigued as to your alarm bells ringing(have you been at the chicken (hasish) phall again) ::)
regards
gary
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Hi WP, you ARE very perceptive. Actually it was Chilli and beer :D
What I meant was that I spent ages trawling through the thread as Mark's recipe intrigued me. In the many posts there were subtle changes to the original recipe with lots of positive replies and yet more suggestions including the cut down version. This continues to the end of the thread but I could not converge all the changes and I just thought someone may have the definitive recipe for the large base and the cut down base that incorporate all the changes. Maybe I got confused and lost the plot, which is not uncommon these days ;D
Thanks for taking the time, am I a little more clear now?
CP
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Perhaps we shall have to encourage everyone that modifies a posted recipe ( and consider it an improvement ) to revise the original complete content as it evolves and post accordingly .
CC
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I tried that with two of mine but got missunderstood for bumping my thread to the top, but i really wanted to highlight the changes & I'm unsure how you can do this without bumping, i think it is the best way as members see the old thread at the top & look at it again, if i modify a recipe no one knows it until they read it & notice the modifications.
We could have a notice board thread highlighting modifications of the most popular recipes/Bases etc..but that means the site getting bigger..again, its not a perfect world but we do our best. :)
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Hmm ??? This is a tricky one but solveable I am sure. The problem is more to do with passion for the mission and forgetting to get the answer ;D A good idea CC, but I would also keep the original for comparison
I agree Darth, Is bumping (whater that implies) a mortal sin? ::) I couldn't give a damn who is at the top of the list I think the site is about information, education and helping eachother out; not an ego trip :D I may have been in the biz a long time but I am still seeking that holy grail also. Would it not be a great compliment to you guys and gals if I or another BIR started using one or more of YOUR bases etc., from here; what an accolade! :-* I assume that getting a chef grading is something to do with number of posts or top of the list thingy? If that's the case, I am a COOK, just simply that, and very proud of it. Its OK I am not flaming or shouting :-[
Enjoy the trip
CP
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The problem is that if everyone started revising and changing already posted recipes the forum would become an unreadable mess. The best thing to do if a recipe has been revised for the better would be to repost it as a new thread or replace the now, "not as good" orginal.
Bumping older threads, especially as the forum is getting bigger, is also a pain for the majority of members that have already read through them once. Ploughing through the same long thread to see that halfway through someone has changed the amount of passata from 500g to 750g is pointless and annoying.
As for the The chef, head chef and other titles they are a bit of fun and only act as an indication of how many posts a member has made, they have no bearing on a members experience. You could if you wanted make 500 posts saying nothing more than LOL and :D to get your post count up but it's probably best if you don't ;)
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Thanks CK
CP
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I like the idea of posting a new thread with a link pointing to the original thread so that members new & old can compare the differences & judge for themselves if the "upgrade was worth it".
looks like we have come to a positive conclusion which also removes the possabilities of being accused of thread bumping weather intentional or not which is good for the forum.
Cheers for now.
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(What I meant was that I spent ages trawling through the thread as Mark's recipe intrigued me. In the many posts there were subtle changes to the original recipe with lots of positive replies and yet more suggestions including the cut down version. This continues to the end of the thread but I could not converge all the changes and I just thought someone may have the definitive recipe for the large base and the cut down base that incorporate all the changes. )
hi cp
i have trawled through the entire post highlighting mark js visits and will post in near future and then maybe i will repost blades 10 onion version if required as i have highlighted that too :) ;)
regards
gary(woodpecker in disguise)
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Thanks very much Gary, that is most welcome.
CP
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I printed out my cut down version of this but Ive lost the word doc! Ill try and find it
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Thanks Mark.
CP
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Found it, based on my recent success with the natco base if I were to cook this again I would add an extra 3 TBSP of garlic paste.
Mark J Curry Gravy Base
10 onion base version
vegetable oil to cover large pan upto a height of 3/4 inch
3 tbl Garlic & Ginger paste
1 tbl curry powder
1 tbl Turmeric
1 lvl tsp Chilli powder
10 tennis ball sized onions, chopped
2 celery stick chopped
1 green pepper chopped
2 large carrots chopped
1 tsp Salt
1.5 lvl tsp Garamasala (Natco is very nice)
1 tin tomatoes (450g) - or pasatta
handful of fresh coriander ripped or chopped
2 tbl Knorr 'Touch of Taste' liquid chicken stock concentrate
water
1) Heat oil until hot add the garlic and ginger and fry until brown, keep stirring
2) Add curry powder, turmeric and chilli powder and stir fry. Add some cold water (few tablespoons) when it starts to stick to the bottom of the pan. This frees it up instantly
3) Add the onions, carrots, green peppers and celery
4) add salt and garamasala and mix around
5) add tomatoes then add boiling water to cover the vegetables by an inch
6) once up to the boil, add liquid chicken stock and simmer on lowish flame for 1 hour
7) Liquidise - easiest way is to use a hand blender straight into the pot
Boil hard for 10 mins - the top of the sauce rolls just like the base you may have seen in BIRs
9) cook on low for another 5 mins, leave overnight.
all measures are rounded spoons unless it says lvl
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Thank you very much Mark, I will have a go with this soon along with Darth's darkside base.
Happy Cooking
CP
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I've last night made the scaled down version and today expect to make a curry or 3. I will post pictures in an hour or so once I get them off my phone.
This linear scaled version of reduced quantity, producing about 1 litre of base gravy, appears to be success. Proof will be in the pudding as they say.
It looks enough to make 3 dishes and I suspect I'll make a Butter Chicken or maybe a Madras and George's Korma. I'll get some lamb today for a Balti Lamb as well.
I didn't have 2 medium onions so I used 1 medium and 2 small. Peeled and chopped weight of 400 grams.
I paid special attention to browning the garlic and ginger.
The vegetables were fried in the oil, along with the splash of water added with the spices, for about 15 minutes before adding the bulk of the water for further boiling. The onion was well translucent but not browned at all and the carrots and celery were well cooked before the water was added. The entire preparation and cooking took about 90 minutes and it certainly appears to be a good curry base gravy.
I used a Continental no added salt chicken stock concentrate (jelly pot).
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Livo - well done for giving this excellent base sauce a try. Your onion weight is spot on and the resultant colour looks right as well. The base should taste 'moreish' on it's own with no hint of being bitter, bland or with any other adverse quality.
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Thanks George. I'm looking forward to trying your Korma as well. I've been a bit disappointed in my recent attempts. What about your comment in regards the Bay Leaf? I didn't add one as it wasn't a listed ingredient. Do you usually include one?
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Livo - yes, I add a single, fresh bay leaf from my garden. I'm not sure it makes an big difference, though. As for korma, I have almost lost interest over the past 10 or more years. I never order korma in a restaurant and haven't made one for at least 10 years. It's interesting how one's tastes can change in food.
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Do you grow Indian bay (Cinnamomum tamala) or European (Laurus nobilis), George ? I find the flavours very different, and actually dislike European bay while loving Indian ...
** Phil.
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This base gravy was fine in all regards and I used it to make 3 perfectly acceptable dishes.
However, if the Korma I produced by following the recipe of Ghana is a true indication of a BIR Korma, it truly deserves the derision it receives by some on this forum. It was dreadful. I've been disappointed in my last few Korma attempts but they were good compared to the outcome of this recipe. Ghastly horrible gloop.
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For the benefit of other readers, "Ghana" was originally spelled "Ghanna" on this forum, and the recipe can be found here (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1172.msg10300#msg10300).
** Phil.
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However, if the Korma I produced by following the recipe of Ghana is a true indication of a BIR Korma, it truly deserves the derision it receives by some on this forum. It was dreadful. I've been disappointed in my last few Korma attempts but they were good compared to the outcome of this recipe. Ghastly horrible gloop.
I'm sorry it didn't work for you. Have you ever tasted chicken korma in Indian restaurants in the UK?
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Do you grow Indian bay (Cinnamomum tamala) or European (Laurus nobilis), George ? I find the flavours very different, and actually dislike European bay while loving Indian ...
I grow European (Laurus nobilis) and it helps improve the flavour of the base sauce for my taste. There's no accounting for anyone else's tastes! I doubt if the Indian tree misnamed 'bay' would grow in an English garden. I recently tried growing curry tree plants and it was a total failure.
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George you can get Curry leaf trees from "The Citrus Centre" keep them out of the frost and don't overwater, they are quite a resilient
plant.
Waiting for spring to arrive for new growth
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However, if the Korma I produced by following the recipe of Ghana is a true indication of a BIR Korma, it truly deserves the derision it receives by some on this forum. It was dreadful. Ghastly horrible gloop.
Yep that sounds like a Korma
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George, I've never been to the UK. The only knowledge of BIR food is what I make following the recipes and methods on this site and other resources. I've had plenty of different Korma dishes over the years and one in particular was among the best Indian dishes I've ever eaten. I've never been able to get close to making it.
I've seen Korma recipes that are ridiculously complex and include ingredients like rose water and kewra water, gold leaf, etc. Some I've made tasted like eating flower petals and were not good at all. I have also made some successful Korma that have been tasty and enjoyable.
I'm not prone to harsh criticism but this one was truly dull. The base gravy was fine and as you described quite acceptable on its own. The unspiced combination of this gravy with pre-cooked chicken (roast), evaporated milk, coconut and nuts (almonds and cashews) was just nothing. The remaining portion is going in the bin today.
MA, if you are basing your assessment of Korma on dishes similar to this, I understand your view. A Korma can be a delicious dish. This wasn't.