Curry Recipes Online
Curry Base Recipes => Curry Sauce, Curry Base , Curry Gravy Recipes, Secret Curry Base => Topic started by: Yousef on July 10, 2008, 01:48 PM
-
As you know I have been in discussion with Bruce Edwards and he has kindly provided CR0.co.uk with an article on the restaurant Curry Sauce and Basic Curry. So here it is.......
Bruce Edwards
I discovered this forum about a year after it first came online, and have visited it from time to time since then. Initially progress seemed slow, then people started reporting on kitchen demos, and things started to get interesting. Very soon there was some good information, but also a lot that wasn't helpful, and some - well I wont say any more. The difficulty for many people was just what to believe Common problems are that when someone sees for the first time what goes on in a restaurant kitchen they're are in an unfamiliar environment, their observations are often unreliable and they often misinterpret what they have seen. They might see a pan on the cooker on a burner that resembles a rocket engine and so conclude that a high temperature and lots of heat are necessary, but they fail to notice that the contents of the pan are only simmering, because it is a small pan and most of the heat is going up the side. The chef then takes the opportunity to impress the visitor by producing a sheet of flame with a flick of his spoon and a shake of the pan, and the impression is reinforced.
Another example is quantities; the visitor sees a massive pot of sauce on the cooker and asks how much coriander/turmeric/cumin etc. he needs in his pot which is 'this' big. The chef, trying to be helpful, makes a guess. Now think about it. If your pot is 6 inches in diameter and the same in depth, and the restaurant one is three times this, [distinctly possible] then the restaurant one actually contains TWENTY SEVEN times the volume of yours, as simple arithmetic will show, but a fact that might easily be overlooked.
People look for recipes with a definite result in mind. And while recipes are obviously important and have a part to play, what BIR cooking is really all about is using Traditional Indian methods and spices to cook dishes that are not typically 'Indian'.
When everything is right, the Restaurant Flavour/Smell is produced, almost as a by-product of the process as a whole. Of course the chef will have heard of this, but probably wont be too clear about what we actually mean by it. He will almost certainly assume that we are talking about general spiciness. Only a true British Curry Enthusiast can fully appreciate it.
Method and technique are everything. Master these and you will be able to produce restaurant style dishes from a whole range of ingredients. The bad news - for some ? is that the best starting point is an understanding of Traditional Indian Cookery. You need to be familiar with spices, know how to cook with them, know what dishes look like at various stages, and how to
achieve this. Daunting, maybe, but hopefully I can demystify it a little.
I'm going to try to explain what is actually happening rather than just giving recipes and instructions.
What I am presenting here is a fairly standard Curry Sauce, but to try and make it as repeatable and failsafe as possible, I am giving some precise quantities and instructions. I can't, of course, guarantee success for you, but I can tell you with confidence that it does work, and when everything is right, it can produce the sort of spectacular result that we are probably all familiar with.
If you follow these instructions, the result should be a dish that is robustly spiced and well seasoned, [Typical of the sort of dish that restaurants produced through the 1980's and into the '90's] that you stand a good chance of enjoying even after having been exposed to the cooking smells. And of course, once you are happy with it, you can always reduce the spicing to a level typical of what the average restaurant uses now. More on that later.
1] - ONIONS. 3 Lb. prepared weight. [Peeled] Chop finely.
- CARROTS. 4 Oz. prepared weight. Chop.
- RED orGREEN PEPPER 3 Oz. Chop.
- CORIANDER. 1 Oz. Chop.
- GARLIC and GINGER. 1 Oz. of each. Prepared weight. Blend finely with some of the water.
- TOMATO. 2 Rounded Tbsp. tinned chopped or 2 Med. fresh.
- AJOWAN. 1 Quarter Tsp. Optional.
- SALT. 1.5 Tsp.
- OIL. 6 Fl. Oz.
- WATER. 2.5 Pints
2] - SPICE MIXTURE. 4.5 level Tbsp.
- TOMATO PUREE. 1 Rounded Tbsp.
NOTES.
ONIONS. The quantity specified will give a fairly thick sauce [Recommended] but if you prefer you could reduce the amount to 2.5 Lbs.
GARLIC AND GINGER. These should always be blended if they are going to be boiled. If they are just chopped, the flavour will cook out. Sounds unlikely, I know, but there is a good [ in terms of chemistry ] explanation for this.
AJOWAN. Only a small amount needed. Unfortunately, far too much was specified in Curry House Cookery.
SPICE MIXTURE. Coriander / Turmeric / Cumin / Curry Powder 8:7:5:4 parts by volume. When I say level spoons, that's what I mean, so use the back of a knife to be sure that it is level.
OTHER INGREDIENTS. May be added, but aren't really needed. Restaurants typically do this to individualise their dishes. A segment of lemon or a stick of celery will make a noticable difference but care is needed as inconsistencies are easily introduced. Onions are bad enough, varying in strength and sugar content, without carelessly adding other variables.
This sauce replaces the one described in the second series of Curry House Cookery. As it is quite well flavoured, it works well with plain cooked meat or chicken. It will produce a perfectly acceptable curry with supermarket bought cooked chicken. If, however, you want to seriously reduce the spicing, then consider pre-cooking the main ingredient with some whole spices.
METHOD.
Put all the ingredients except the spice mixture and tomato puree in a suitable pot. Make a note of the level of the water - the evaporation loss will be made up later. Put it on the cooker and bring to the boil. Cover and simmer on the lowest possible heat for ONE HOUR. It should be ONLY JUST bubbling. Five minutes before the end of cooking time, add the spice mix and tomato puree and return to the boil. When time is up, turn off heat and leave to stand for a
minute or two, then stand the pot in cold water to cool.
I always make curry sauce in late afternoon, and when I reach this point, I refrigerate it, then blend it the next morning. So you can follow exactly if you want, or fit it into your own schedule. But I think it is probably best if you at least allow it to cool fully before blending. When you are ready, top up the water to its' original level. Then blend until really smooth, and return to the fridge.
It is my opinion [but not proven] that curry sauce is at its' best on the third day after cooking.
I normally make two pots per week ; the first on Monday for use on Wednesday / Thursday and often Friday as well. The second is made on Wednesday for a special meal with trimmings on Saturday. I don't normally freeze any - I think curries are far too important to use anything other than the best whenever possible. Okay, so it dosen't all get used, what's left gets fed to our chickens. At least it's not completely wasted.
PREPARING IT FOR USE.
It's a good idea to remove it from the fridge and allow to reach room temperature before re-heating. If you wont be needing it all, transfer enough plus a little extra to another pot, then leave it to stand for an hour or two. Heat it over a medium flame until boiling, stirring often to stop it separating. Allow it to boil for a minute or so, then turn off the heat.
It is now ready for use, but don't expect it to look the way it does in a restaurant kitchen. There simply isn't sufficient volume of sauce here to produce the classic oil slick. You could force the issue by adding extra oil, but that would be for appearance only, it isn't necessary, and may even be counter productive ? the additional oil would take on flavour from the sauce, which would then be drained off. It is true that chefs will use oil from the pot to cook some dishes in, but that's because it is there. It will make a difference to some bland dishes, but is not necessary for the restaurant flavour.
AND NOW THE CURRY.
In the unlikely event that you are doing this for the first time, then before you start actually cooking, be sure that you know exactly what you have to do. There is a point of no return, and you simply can't stop to check the instructions. This is a basic restaurant curry so most of it will be familiar, but it is my intention that you get it RIGHT.
- OIL. 1 Fl. oz.
- THINLY SLICED PEPPER OR ONION. A few slivers.
- TOMATO PUREE. 1 LEVEL tsp.
- SPICE MIXTURE. 0.5 Tsp.
- CHILLI POWDER. As required. 1 LEVEL tbsp. For fairly serious Vindaloo.
- DRIED FENUGREEK LEAVES. 1 small pinch.
- SALT. 2 pinches.
- COOKED MEAT OR CHICKEN. 1 portion / as required.
- CORIANDER LEAVES. Chopped / as required.
.
NOTES.
THINLY SLICED PEPPER OR ONION. As in Curry House Cookery, this is not
actually required ? its' purpose is to enable you to judge the temperature of the oil before adding the spices. This must be high enough to cook them, but not so high that they burn. Apart from that, it is not critical.
Hopefully, you have a 1 Oz. cooks' spoon and a 7 Oz. ladle. If not, I thoroughly recommend that you get them, as they really are the best tools for the job. Make sure that you know what your ladle looks like when it is half full, as this is a useful measure and reduces guesswork.
METHOD
Put the oil, tomato puree and pepper / onion in a pan and on the heat.
When the contents of the pan are frying briskly, add the spices, and mix well with the oil. You can give the pan a good shake, stir with the spoon, or a combination of the two, it dosen't matter, as long as everything is well mixed.
The spices will fizzle and foam - this shows they are cooking properly.
The hotter the oil, the more they will foam and the quicker they will cook. [ Forget about smoking hot oil - yes it will work, but timing is crucial.] After a while, the sizzling will start to die down. This indicates that the spices are cooked, and the process must be stopped NOW, but ideally just before this point. With practice, it is not difficult to judge the right moment.
[While all of this is going on, anyone downwind of your kitchen will be getting the full benefit of the Indian Restaurant Smell. What a shame that this is wasted on those in the kitchen.]
It is now time to add a ladleful of sauce. This reduces the temperature in the pan and stops the spices from cooking any more. [ And also from burning. ] But beware ; it is possible for the spices to carry on cooking in a bubble underneath the sauce. So make sure that this dosen't happen by stirring, swirling and generally mixing well. Allow the curry to simmer for a few minutes on a medium heat. When the oil separates and floats on the surface, you can spoon off the excess and add the rest of the sauce along with the main ingredient. [ Which can be pre-heated by microwaving.] Carry on simmering until the oil again separates and the sauce turns a little darker in colour. If you want a thicker curry, allow to simmer for a little longer. Exact times can't be given ; it is really a matter of of waiting until it looks right. When you are happy with the result, add chopped coriander leaves and serve, or place on a serving dish.
SO THERE YOU HAVE IT. The only tricky part is the frying of the spices, but a little practice should make that second nature. Interestingly, it appears that some chefs are reluctant to fry chilli powder in any quantity [Phall or at least Vindaloo heat] because of the fumes given off. This is unfortunate, because it seems to be under-cooked chilli that is responsible for the next day effects often associated with hot currys. [FINDALOO syndrome.] I regularly eat currys
containing six or more tablespoons of chilli powder which is well fried, and never seem to suffer from this.
Now its' up to you you to try what I have described - I hope it works for you. Post your results and experiences, and I will keep an eye on how things are going. I hope to add to this, probably later this summer or early in the autumn, and I will try to help with any problems that occur. But if you alter the method beyond all recognition before you even try it, then tell me that it dosen't work, don't expect too much sympathy!
VARIATIONS.
In my part of the world [I don't know what's happening further afield, I don't do much travelling around these days.] restaurants are producing food that is minimally spiced and often low salt. The low salt option seems to be taking blandness to a bit of an extreme, but minimal spicing can result in some interesting dishes, although the restaurant flavour/smell is missing. If you want to try this, try halving the quantity of spice mixture, garlic/ginger and coriander in the sauce. You could actually reduce the spice mixture to about a third of the amount specified and still produce very acceptable currys. The spicing of the actual curry could also be halved, and you would still have something typical of many restaurants, although obviously this is not for everyone, and I suspect not for most users of this forum. I have made perfectly satisfactory hot currys by using nothing but turmeric [ around 1.5 tsp ] to spice the sauce, relying on the flavour of a fairly large amount of chilli powder for the end result. Flavours such as coriander leaves then seem to come through very well. These, though, are purely experimental currys, but they may appeal to some.
BRUCE EDWARDS.
NORTH NORFOLK.
29th. JUNE. 2008.
Copyright Bruce Edwards
CR0.co.uk will pursue any copyright infringement of this article.
-
I notice that Bruce no longer lists radishes amongsts the base sauce ingredients. This interests me, since I have recently used a mooli radish in a base and feel that it improves the texture. Any ideas why the radishes have been omitted from his revised recipe?
-
Thanks Bruce
I will try this out soon
I see that although the base is quite heavily spiced, the curry isn't
One compensates the other
This is like we have been saying
You can't mix and match curry bases and curries from different places
It's very interesting what you say about the heat from these cookers
All flame and no heat
-
Thank you for your very informative post Bruce. Looks good.
I will try this one very soon.
I notice the 0.25 tsp pf Ajowan seeds are optional. I've never used these in a base before, although I know Bobby Bhuna has recently suggested it to me. Do you know if they make any noticable difference to the final base? Are they blended into the base or do they remain as seeds after blending?
Regards
SnS
-
I've never used these in a base before, although I know Bobby Bhuna has recently suggested it to me. Do you know if they make any noticable difference to the final base? Are they blended into the base or do they remain as seeds after blending?
I'm sure Bruce can better answer this question but in my most recent base (basically a fairly standard base with a mooli radish and 1/4 tsp ajwain seed). I can't really taste the ajwain seeds but I'm pretty sure they just blended into the base. I imagine they would have softened up a great deal during the cooking process. I certainly haven't come across any whole ones in my finshed dishes yet! :P
-
This is definitely my next one to try! :D
Fantastic post and a great read, Will try with the Ajowan seeds.
Thank you Bruce.
Ill will report back as soon as i get time with some results. UB.
-
Really really interesting post many thanks, I also think the comments by Haldi on mixing and matching are very helpful.
Matt
-
I'm sold on the idea of the actual technique making all the difference. After all, if you gave Gordon Ramsay and I the same ingredients and recipe, I have a suspicion there may be somewhat of a difference in the end result. I found the part about cooking spices particularly informative and intend to try to get this right.
However, properly cooked or not, a 3 tbsp of chilli curry is definitley gonna hurt on the way out! Bruce Iron Bowels Edwards! ;D
-
a fantastic post.
i really love the way Bruce has worded it.
i hope it is the start of a mutually beneficial relationship with CRO members.
very much looking fwd to trying the method word for word.
-
This is a must-do. Really looking forward to my results as well as others on the site.
Let's see... if those trying it follow Bruce's advice to the letter, we won't have results posted until... Monday!
Some very interesting nuances in this one...
-
Thank you so much for posting this here Bruce, I really appreciate you have shared such a valuable information, many thanks. I will give it a go soon, I have got the freezer full of bases but I will manage to make some more room ;D
Best regards
-
i've put the raw data into my base spreadsheet (ready for cooking) and i very much like the numbers and gel completely with the ingredients. i need to cook with it and establish the finished blended volume to be sure.
as Josh says some very interesting nuances in the technique.
real inspiring stuff
-
Great read from the master of BIR cooking, I can't wait to here peoples views on this. I have just made a freezer full of base sauce so will be a couple of days before I get round to trying this word for word.
-
as luck would have it my cement mixer broke this morning and what better way to spend time than on the base.
immediate observation is a smell just like cooking Thai green curry. i think now that the ginger has been blended its combining with the coriander and onion to give a very nice aroma.
pic is of base coming to boil.
-
pic of base at end of cooking - 1 hr having added spice mix and tom puree.
the liquid tastes pretty good - the nearest base taste to it at this stage i've tasted is the rajver.
-
Bruce, I love you :-)
-
Wow, that was fast Jerry, I really want to know what you think of the finished curry, will you be making one tonight?
-
Hi CK & Jerry
I made it too
It smelt really good cooking
I'm going to make a curry tonight
-
It smelt really good cooking
Haldi, you?re not wrong on this. coming down to the kitchen this morning was a dream - last nights smell "aroma" was still lingering.
i am going to wait the 3 days before making curry.
have attached pic of blended base - it now looks and tastes very similar to saffron (big fan).
my finished volume was 3.5L (adding back 200ml of water lost during cooking).
i am sceptical of the advantage of putting it in water to cool - i have always liked the idea of it continuing cooking as it cools naturally.
-
Can't wait to give this a go, can't wait to hear more about everyone's experience of it!
Bruce, thank you VERY much!
-
Letting this base cool before blending right now.
My observation so far is that 1oz seems to be a lot of coriander. More than a handful.
I guess thats what's causing Jerry's "thai green curry" comment.
-- Josh
-
Letting this base cool before blending right now.
My observation so far is that 1oz seems to be a lot of coriander. More than a handful.
I guess thats what's causing Jerry's "thai green curry" comment.
-- Josh
I'm not sure but i think that American and British ounces are different. Im thinking a American oz is bigger.. ::)
Also I see you do the "Best BIR curry in Toronto" If ever get to go to Canada (and i would like to) I'll be looking for you ;)
-
I made the curry
I used pre cooked veg
Perhaps that was a mistake
I have seen takeaways simply put in veg from a can and use frozen veg too
The curry really looked the business, but seemed to lack that extra flavour
I got no real aromas happening, when I cooked the spices
So I guess that's where my problem lies
The base is very good though
One of the best I have made
But the curry tasted almost the same as the base, which is not what I wanted.
And Boy! was it hot
I only used 1 teaspoon of chilli powder
That made a lot of heat
I had quite a bit of base so tried it in another recipe, which had extra falvourings and got some big compliments on that
This other recipe (from a demo) had garlic ginger puree & balti paste
Thanks for the recipes, Bruce
Any comments,very welcome
-
Glad to see yours is the same colour as mine, is that a veggie curry in the pic? i never use or eat tinned veg it just tastes like water to me.. Ive made the base plus main and found it to be fantastic will post pic's tomorrow.UB.
-
I'm not sure but i think that American and British ounces are different. Im thinking a American oz is bigger..
Also I see you do the "Best BIR curry in Toronto" If ever get to go to Canada (and i would like to) I'll be looking for you
I looked it up before setting out with the base (been burned with UK/US measurements before :'( Its about the same. 1uk oz = 1.041 us ounces
UB - if you visit Canada, you will find the Indian restaurants to be almost exclusively the authentic variety. Even typical BIR dishes (CTM, Madras...) are very different, and IMO not as good. There is one Bangladeshi-run spot in a town called Peterborough outside Toronto that is the real BIR deal.
-
OK, I made the base and a Madras. I modified the resultant curry recipe to add 2 teaspoons of lemon juice after the base was added, and used 1 teaspoon of chilli powder. Other than that no other changes to either recipe.
The Madras was fantastic. Not a huge difference from my usual, as I usually use the BE Madras recipe (from Curryhouse Cookery) anyway.
Very rich flavour, and funnily enough I found it hotter than my usual 1tsp chilli Madras. Haldi noticed this too.
I do wonder about the versatility of this base, and whether it would be too richly spiced and flavoured for use in a CTM or Korma. Perhaps Bruce can comment on that (... and provide a CTM recipe ::) )
Thank you Bruce for the recipe. This will likely become my standard, once I have a handle on the versatility aspect.
--- Josh
-
the main difference seems to be a lot of spices cooked for a short period of time. Is this the secret I doubt it, but I haven't tried it ;)
Matt
Hi Matt
This "adding spices close to the end of cooking the base" idea is something I recently have come across
A takeaway near me does the same
They boil everything until cooked, add the spices, bring back to the boil, then blend
I appreciate that vegetable curries are not what everyone buys
But I buy them regularly and they are always full of flavour
That's why I was dissapointed in my result
I have stood next to a chef while he made me a spinach bhajee
He used spinach from a can
He fried the spices using curry gravy oil
The result was amazing taste with loads of aroma
Apart from "happy accidents" I have got stuck at this 95% success since I read Bruces first articles
I want that last 5%
Having said that, I made an amazing curry using some frozen chicken tikka
This is something I had seen my chef friend cook but not tried yet
It's ever so simple
You roughly chop an onion
Heat some oil in a wok and fry this for about three minutes
You constantly stir vigourously
Add a desertspoon of East End Tandoori Masala powder
Stir again
Add a portion of chicken tikka and stir in
You get loads of flames at this point
Heat through for about five minutes
Add a pinch of dried fenugreek and stir another minute
Serve with a pinch of chopped coriander
That was an absolutely amazing dish
An exact replica
The aromas were incredible
The oil he uses is from a deep pan fryer
I'd been making onion bhajees earlier, so used that oil
I wouldn't think it makes a huge difference though
-
Really Happy with this recipe, this is for me the best ruby that has left my kitchen.
To the main just for personal taste i added Dsp chili, lemon juice and garlic puree. Cracking! looking forward to using the rest of the base.
-
there's a lot going on in this post for sure - so i'll try and be concise.
SnS has obviously just had one of those days like we all do now and again "full stop"
coriander - the rajver base has told me this to be a key ingredient - it does not matter how much u put in only that it is present
the learning - SnS is very much right and haldi backs it up - this site already gets u 95% there. i've not tried the cooking yet and as BE says technique is key. so i hold out on the full "learning" for now. so far:
1) blending of garlic & ginger - 100% yes - it produces a different/better smell/aroma during cooking
2) the slow simmer cooking - 50/50 at mo - need to cook (far better on your bills though)
3) the extra spice - 50/50 at mo - again need to cook
4) oil/onion/water ratio - 100% yes
5) blending after fully cooled - 100% yes
6) absence of paprika ? not sure yet
-
UB,
just a quick check if i could on the "Ajowan" - i only have "Ajwain" despite repeated attempts to find "Ajowan". the ajwain description from the NATCO pack is "seeds have a strong pungent flavour similar to thyme".
i use the ajwain in the ifindforu base and like it a lot so was very please to see it in BE's.
in tasting the base i don't feel there is enough in it - would increase in future to 1 tsp c/w 1/4tsp spec (i noted BE's comment of having reduced it from the past) -
the question is - does the ajwain come through in the final dish - as just a little hint of something
-
UB,
just a quick check if i could on the "Ajowan" - i only have "Ajwain" despite repeated attempts to find "Ajowan". the ajwain description from the NATCO pack is "seeds have a strong pungent flavour similar to thyme".
i use the ajwain in the ifindforu base and like it a lot so was very please to see it in BE's.
in tasting the base i don't feel there is enough in it - would increase in future to 1 tsp c/w 1/4tsp spec (i noted BE's comment of having reduced it from the past) -
the question is - does the ajwain come through in the final dish - as just a little hint of something
I couldn't tell you Jerry because Bruce said there optional and didn't have any, i will put some in next time just to see what the difference is.
-
UB,
no probs - i will just have to hang on until i cook - don't think i'm going to be able to last the 3 days.
i do not put ajwain in every time i make a base - i does produce a very nice but different sort of "little hint of something but your not sure what it is" - it's usually down to what i'm feeling like at the time - probably 1 in 4 bases or 1 per month
unlike the ifindforu base I could not detect the ajwain in the blended base but I don?t know yet if this is down to the extra spice masking it until cooking time when I expect it to come through as that ?hint?
-
UB,
no probs - i will just have to hang on until i cook - don't think i'm going to be able to last the 3 days.
i do not put ajwain in every time i make a base - i does produce a very nice but different sort of "little hint of something but your not sure what it is" - it's usually down to what i'm feeling like at the time - probably 1 in 4 bases or 1 per month
unlike the ifindforu base I could not detect the ajwain in the blended base but I don?t know yet if this is down to the extra spice masking it until cooking time when I expect it to come through as that ?hint?
i will use it next time and we'll compare notes ;D gonna take me about 2 weeks to get though this base so its play time!! :D
-
I cannot believe the 'Sucker' response. How fantastic. Thanks VERY much. How I love you. You DIP STICKS. Get a life.
How you are all so easily impressed by a name - pathetic. This info was already here - nothing new.
SnS (x)
I'm inclined to agree that there is nothing new here. This base is almost identical to the curryhouse cookery one. The curry recipe and cooking technique are pretty standard on this forum aswell. I really appreciate Bruce's input but reading the recipe just doesn't have me reaching for the stock pan if you know what I mean. I'm sure this base will more than meet the threshold, but I'm also sure it will taste pretty similar to the rest of the bases I use on a regular basis.
It's personal preference. This is the base Bruce Edwards makes and prefers. Take UB or SnS for examples. Both good curry chefs both of whom have their base preferences listed on this site. I have tried both and enjoy both. Both are pretty similar and will create a very good curry. I add a bit of this and that when I'm making a base. I don't even follow an exact recipe. Even so, my base will taste similar to theirs, which will taste similar to Bruces. The subtle differences in a base don't make or break a curry.
What Bruce is correct about though is that mastering the technique is the key.For those members who are yet to create a great curry - this recipe will not answer your prayers. For those members who almost always create great curries, this recipe will probably create a great curry... I just really doubt it's worth shouting about.
However as they say, the proof is in the eating so I'll give this one a shot for arguments sake but I don't intend to clear room in my freezer just yet!
-
Hi Matt
This "adding spices close to the end of cooking the base" idea is something I recently have come across
A takeaway near me does the same
They boil everything until cooked, add the spices, bring back to the boil, then blend
[/quote]
Thanks for that Haldi, I haven't tried this technique yet but I will certainly give it a try when I make my next base.
I also like your previous comments about mixing recipes with different bases, I'm guessing but i would say that any curry made with the BE base needs to have minimal spicing due to amount in the base.
Matt
-
Really Happy with this recipe, this is for me the best ruby that has left my kitchen.
To the main just for personal taste i added Dsp chili, lemon juice and garlic puree. Cracking! looking forward to using the rest of the base.
Hi UB
The picture top left looks amazing!
How did you cook the chicken?
Was it precooked?
Also adding lemon juice and garlic puree must have given the taste a real boost.
So I guess you felt it lacked a little something too?
Mine tasted good but very similar to the base
I mean the base is good, but I don't want the finished curry tasting like it
-
On the versatility question, I just made George's Korma (thanks BB for the pointer!) with this base. The results were perfect. Mind you, this Korma recipe calls for no additional spicing to what's already in the base.
So I'm sold on using this Base in the milder dishes as well. Will try a CTM later this week.
Another point about this base is the aroma. I made the base and a Madras with it yesterday, and the house still smells like a BIR, probably better than any other base/curry combo I've tried. In terms of aroma, the Darth Phall was the closest I've got in the past.
Wife's gone for the weekend, so she'll have a nice welcome home ;D
-- Josh
-
Really Happy with this recipe, this is for me the best ruby that has left my kitchen.
To the main just for personal taste i added Dsp chili, lemon juice and garlic puree. Cracking! looking forward to using the rest of the base.
Hi UB
The picture top left looks amazing!
How did you cook the chicken?
Was it precooked?
yes mate i always precook chicken
Also adding lemon juice and garlic puree must have given the taste a real boost.
So I guess you felt it lacked a little something too?
personal taste thats all, I just Cant help to tinker.
-
I'm sure this base will more than meet the threshold, but I'm also sure it will taste pretty similar to the rest of the bases I use on a regular basis.
Bobby's gut feeling is spot on. i make rajver, saffron and ifindforu on a regular basis producing those 95% BIR curries. i am convinced at this stage from tasting the base (i have no side by side to compare) that it is no better or worse than my fav bases.
i do think the oil/onion/water ratio to be spot on - the higher proportion of onion and optimum volume of oil being key to BIR texture/taste. i do like the "low" simmer approach to the cooking c/w "fast" simmer but only cooking the curry will tell if it delivers superior results. the "late on" addition of the spices c/w adding at the start is different as matt/haldi have picked up on. i can't detect a difference in taste in the base but only cooking will prove.
in terms of cooking method it is different to the "toffee" smell (parker21's approach) method that i use on a normal basis and which works well for me having practised the technique (takes about 3 mths to perfect). i remain hopeful this slower "simmer" as opposed to "hot" frying approach will deliver the last 5%. but again this site does have the "slower" method which i've tried before and found easier but no different in outcome to the hot approach. i remain 50/50 on achieving the last 5% at this stage.
-
I'm probably missing something, but please could someone clarify:
- which curry powder is used in the spice mix?
- how much sauce is added to the curry? Bruce mentions adding "a ladle of sauce" (a ladle being 7 fluid ounces?) and later mentions adding "the rest of the sauce along with the main ingredients"
- when is the salt and dried fenugreek added?
What did those that have already made it do?
Thanks
-
Hi Roti,
This sort of stuff stumped me earlier on too.
- which curry powder is used in the spice mix?
Any quality commercial one will do. The Rajah Madras Gold seems to get good reviews.
- how much sauce is added to the curry? Bruce mentions adding "a ladle of sauce" (a ladle being 7 fluid ounces?) and later mentions adding "the rest of the sauce along with the main ingredients"
I saw somewhere that a ladle was 142ml. So thats about half of the 7 fl. oz. Using that, the instruction makes sense.
- when is the salt and dried fenugreek added?
With the spices.
-- Josh
-
adding to Josh's info for Roti - the 7 fl oz in the UK is 210 ml. this equates to a ladle and 1/2 for me as my ladle is 150ml.
-
had a very long evening cooking last night making 7 portions.
for me raised more questions - not unexpected - this curry malarkey is quite tricky.
for those who have not yet reached say "95% there" then this base and recipe is spot on and well worth following - it brings very good learning at the technique.
for those chasing the last "5%" then there is some learning but i don't feel it's bridged the gap. i feel i need to work with the base and technique a bit more.
conclusion:
this spice mix was very different for me and i need to get to know it. i need to think about how i go about doing this. i feel there is still learning to be gained and remain upbeat on the 5%. pic of as spec curry minus chilli attached.
observations:
1) "slow boat cooking" - i very much liked this method c/w normal "hot frying" it produced very good results
2) the turmeric - i had the same yellow staining everywhere that i do with a TA. i've not had this before. i'm only lately warming to turmeric and the large amount present was fine (surprised me)
3) creaminess - the curries were very creamy. dare i say "moorish". i put this down to the blending of the garlic/ginger in the base and the ratio of onion. i might be tempted to increase the thinness of the base (add more water) to help with the 1/3 reduction during cooking - i felt i lost a bit too much of the base volume during the cooking
problems:
1) chilli/colour - i found following the instructions very difficult in terms of the colour/amount of chilli. i think if u can stand the 3 tsp then the colour will be right. i made the 1st curry to spec but without any chilli. this tasted the best i made all night but the colour was too "yellow"
2) hardness of onion - i have never been able to get the onion soft at frying stage without essentially pre frying. as i aim to cook the curry in ~7mins (2mins fry, 5mins simmer) i always leave onion out and replace it normally with fine chopped garlic. for curries 2 to 7 i left the veg out (ie onion, garlic, green pepper etc)
3) LB spice mix - i made curry No 2 using my std LB spice mix. I have tried the LB mix in some recipes before and it has not worked for the dish (ie Admins Jalfrezi). the same happened here. it's a big surprise as it's always produce a top notch curry sauce previously.
4) Paprika - in desperation for redness i added 1 tsp deggi and 2 tsp paprika to curry No3. this was OTT on the paprika and did not taste good. it did however have an undertone of the BIR i'm used to and a bit more fine tuning may deliver.
5) Oil separation - i did not get oil separation during simmer to guide on when the dish was cooked.
for the oil reclaimers:
1) Spiced oil - i did not have any to use and noticed it
2) Extra 1 hr simmer - i split the finished base and cooked 1/2 for the 1hr reclaim adding 200ml of water for evaporation. negligible oil was released say 3 tbsp. so this base is very tight on oil - possibly just a little too tight (too much oil is just as bad)
3) Curry using rec base - i feel the low oil reduced the effect of the 1hr simmer. however the taste was sufficiently different - enough that i would say beneficial (no longer "soupy".
-
Wow Jerry, you really go all out on these analyses!
When you say 7 portions, I take it you made the Base per Bruce spec, and then fiddled with the Madras. Right?
After making so many great bases (this one included) and trying so many Madras recipes, I agree I'm still stuck on the 'last 5%' too. I like the BE Madras for its simplicity. Technique/tools has got to be whats missing. One thing that I think has improved my latest curries (thanks to this post) is the idea to have the base gravy preheated. The cooking seemed to 'flow' much nicer, and the aroma from the instant "burn-off" was also something that was missing. Hot base hitting the hot pan and instantly boiling was a definite plus in the end result, and made a more impressive show!
BTW, I agree on the "creamy" comment on the end result on this one. Big plus there in my book. On the Base oil amount, my initial thoughts were that it was too high. However, the Curry recipe specified on 2TBL of oil (which is a reduction from the previous BE Madras), meaning more oil was being relied on from the base. I did not need to skim any oil off, and the oil that did separate during the last minute of cooking the curry was nicely marbled into the gravy, instead of pools of oil, or none at all. I have a naan test to check the oil amount - when I dip a piece of naan into the curry I look to see how much gravy sticks vs. oil. This passed the test well.
Still haven't tried the modified CK CTM with this one yet...
--- Josh
-
yes made 7 off curries:
1) Bruce's spec 100% but no chilli (actually best tasting curry of the night)
2) BE Base, LB spice mix, my std hot frying method - "toffee" smell (1st time but this spice mix did not work with this base ? real surprise)
3) BE spec, replace 1 tbsp chilli with 2 tsp paprika, 1 tsp deggi (has promise)
4) Reclaimed BE base, BE spec but replaced chilli with 1 tsp deggi
5) BE base BE spec but replaced chilli with 1 tsp deggi
6) BE base, std frying method, no chilli
7) Reclaimed BE base, std frying method, no chilli
i did not warm / preheat the base.
the naan dipping trick sounds a good test - certainly easier than going through the reclaim method on 1/2 the as spec base - this too confirmed a good pass
on the last 5% i have seen big improvement in adding whole spices to the base and removing before blending. my personal favs being cardamom, bay and anis (only a little anis - its strong on power). for me the spiced oil is also crucial.
agree on the "creamy" being big plus - i'm actually using slightly higher onion ratio and thinner sauce (for reduction at simmer) which is big improvement but i think the extra cream down to the blending of the garlic/ginger (i need to repeat it to confirm).
i like the higher proportion of turmeric (never thought i'd being saying it) - again i'm going to try out/repeat to confirm.
the only real difficulty i have is the missing paprika and why the LB spice mix does not work.
-
the aroma from the instant "burn-off" was also something that was missing.
--- Josh
Yes Josh,
That's what I felt
I never got this BIR spice burn off moment
The aroma was completely missing
It's probably something I'm doing wrong, but it seems far harder to achieve this with so little spice
It's only half a teaspoon plus whatever chilli you add
And bear in mind a large portion of this spice mix is turmeric
Turmeric doesn't really have much of a smell
It's this point of cooking that the problem seems to arise
The base is really excellent, but I can't seem to create a curry with only half a teaspoon of spice
I hope Bruce is watching these comments as they are gradually added, or this is going to an awful lot to wade through!!
-
Haldi,
this 1/2 tsp did bug me too - i felt i wanted to go to 1 tsp. i'm going to try this tonight.
With the as spec "slow boat" cooking method there will not be the same "burn off". I must admit I could not distinguish a difference in final curry taste from the 2 methods slow boat c/w toffee smell hot fry
-
Great to see that an acknowledged expert is posting on the forum Bruce. It would be great to get continued feedback and advice from you :)
I made the base, to the letter, using fresh tomatoes (I find tinned can be bitter), green pepper (it's much cheaper than red) and coriander stems and roots (to avoid it becoming overly green coloured).
It produced a very good base similar (unsurprisingly) to the best of the other bases on this forum (Darth's, Infindfu's, SnS's, etc).
It was fairly sweet (I think boiling the onions rather than frying them helps with sweetness), light coloured, creamy and distinctly oniony (again, unsurprisingly). I didn't get much oil rising to the top (but I'm not worried about that).
The ajwain seeds produced a subtle, pleasant and discernable smell and taste which I actually liked (I would be interested to know where this idea actually comes from Bruce? I have only ever seen it prescribed in your curry bases?). Their taste is even more subtle (thankfully), but still discernable, in the final curry.I would caution against others' advice about adding more though. They really are quite overpowering and smell and taste dreadful if over used.
I didn't think the base was overly spiced. I think adding the spices, towards the end of cooking (as prescribed in one or two other curry base recipes on the forum), helps preserve their flavour in the final curry. The consistency was perhaps a little thick.
I think this base can be heartily recommended to all newcomers :)
The trouble I have is knowing how this base compares (appearance, taste, texture and smell) to those of a typical BIR? How do others, that have bought bases from BIR's, think it compares? (Haldi, for example, who I know has bought several bases and cooked them at home?)
I made the associated curry sauce (without meat), as described, though I too was unsure about prescribed amount of base to add (I added the 7 fluid ounces mentioned as the ladle size)) and when to add the salt and fenugreek leaves (I added the fenugreek leaves with the spices and the salt after adding the base). I also added only 1 teaspoon of "hot chilli" powder which was ample for the 7 fluid ounces of curry base. A tablespoon would have killed me! (and I love phals!). But I know the piquancy of chilli powder varies enormously though.
Unfortunately, I found the curry sauce disappointing. As Haldi mentioned, it lacked flavour and smell, tasting and smelling mostly of the curry base but hotter (as in chilli hot). It was also quite thick and stodgey. I got very little oil separation. I think there was too little oil (2 tablespoons only) for the prescribed amount of spices.
So I then made a vindaloo to my normal recipe using significantly more oil (maybe 75ml or so), a little onion (1 tablespoon - finely chopped), a little green pepper (1 tablespoon - finely chopped) garlic (1 tsp - pureed), ginger (0.5tsp - pureed), significantly more (and slightly different) spice mix (1.5 teaspoon), more tomato paste (2 teaspoons), more dried fenugreek (2 teaspoons - crumbled), a little vinegar (splash), a little sugar (1 teaspoon or so - white granulated).
I felt it was a vast improvement and produced a very palettable vindaloo, demonstrating that the base is capable of producing a fairly decent curry. Just goes to show that you can actually mix and match curry base recipes and main curry recipes to a fair degree ;)
Either way, both resultant curries (typically) lacked significant attributes of a decent BIR curry. Those being:
- Richness
- Savouriness
- Intensity (depth) of smell and flavour
Maybe this is all down to the curry base, or maybe it is all down to the spice mix and how it is fried, but I really find it hard to understand how the intense smell and taste of a typical BIR curry can be produced without the addition of more spices and/or other ingredients (e.g. stock)
I would be very interested to hear, and look forward to hearing, Bruce's views on these points :)
Thanks for the recipes and tips Bruce :)
-
Here are the pics:
Top - Bruce's curry base before blending
Middle - Bruce's curry base after blending
Bottom - Chicken Vindaloo (to my adapted recipe)
-
I have yet to try this base and finished dish, but I noticed a couple of differences between Bruce's latest ideas, and those propounded before:
In Bruce's first articles for the Curry Club magazine, he made three different spice mixes: mild, medium and hot. His later article recommended one mix, I call this "Bruce Edwards' mark 2", I use this pretty much all the time and I think it's very good! From my own experience of a chef demonstration this makes sense. apart from chillie powder and chat masala (only used in one dish apparently), this chef only used one spice mix, and it looked very much like Bruce's. Bruces latest mix is very similar to the "mark 2", except paprika has now been omitted. I would be very interested to know why??
My second question concerns technique and chemistry! It seems to be received wisdom that spices have to be fried to release their flavour, simply boiling them leaves a raw taste. The problem with frying spices of course, is not burning them! In the preparation of the finished dish Bruce fries onion/pepper to give an indication of oil temp (how vigorously they're frying provides an indication of temperature), and to some extent to control temperature as well: frying anything that contains water (eg onion/pepper) will tend to keep the temp at 100 c as long as moisture remains in the veg, 'local' variations arround the pan excepted!. The chef I saw achieved the same effect by putting a fraction of a ladle-full of base in the pan before adding the spices (a couple of Tbs I recall). I do similar.
Question is, does the spice need a little while above 100 c to impart optimum flavour, this COULD happen as temperature climbs when onion/pepper frys itself dry in the final dish! BUT, the spice added to Bruce's BASE (as opposed to final dish) could NOT possibly do this because such a large excess of water is present!, and yet, presumably, the spice still does its job!
Bare with me, I'm getting to my point....
Surely then, provided a large excess of oil is present to draw the flavour out of the spice mix (the active flavours in spice are lipd-soluble, so the oil needs to be present), a small percentage of water, to stop temp climbing above 100 c would not be detremental, because obviously it does not cause a probelm with the spice flavouring Bruce's base
My view then, is that it does not matter a jot about how fernickity one is about frying spices in the final dish, provided:-
1) An excess of oil/fat is present
2) A small amount quantity of water (or moisture in added material) is present also.
3) Frying continues long enough to ensure the spices are cooked ('toffee' smell).
If the above were not true, the relatively large amount of spice in Bruce's base would not be adaquately cooked, and I presume it is, becuase he obviously knows what he's doing!
Sorry, if I appear to done this point to death, but it is one of the crucial bits!
I usually add a chopped chillie, and maybe a curyy-leaf or two, to the hot oil (3 or 4 tbs for a 2 person portion), and when sizzling , add half a ladle of base before chucking in my spices, fry 'till toffe smell , and oil JUST begining to separate, this takes about 1 minute, add rest of base and ingredients and it works every time! I'm not suggesting it's perfect but I'm very happy with the result.
Comments chaps and chapesses!
-
i cooked again tonight and realised an elementary mistake i made the other night - apologies - it does show how close and yet so far u can be in curry cooking though.
the mistake - in following the spec to the letter i used 1 tsp of tom puree for the 1st as spec BE curry. trouble is i used this same qty for the other 6 curries. 1 tsp of tom puree is no good to me at all being a tomato/garlic/onion geek.
tonight i went with gut feeling and used my normal 1 tbsp of tom puree throughout. i also upped the BE spice from 0.5 to 1 tsp. i also made my norm LB.
all curries were spot on (made 4 off curry sauces) and as good as i've made before other than the extra creaminess which i adopt for future (blending the garlic/ginger at start of base).
CA's comment on the BIR reqts is key - i believe this base and curry to be very close but not quite there. i felt i needed another trip to the TA to complete a side by side comparison for further clues for going fwd.
I share Adrian's interest on the paprika as the LB contains high % and tastes equally good as the BE spice mix - just different.
I am no longer getting fused on the cooking technique and spice temp - i've now tonight abused both methods with quite large margins and the resulting curries are just as good whichever way/heat is used.
From this learning my thoughts going fwd on closing the 5% gap are:
1) whole spices in the base removed before blending (cardamom, bay, anise)
2) blend garlic/ginger (as per BE)
3) coriander a must in the base (as per BE)
4) increase turmeric in base and spice proportion (as per BE) (for me just paprika and turmeric needed - rest in spice mix)
5) onion ratio (as per BE) but thin the finished sauce with water to aid simmer at final cooking stage (2/3 finished vol allowing 1/3 evaporation)
6) apply oil reclaim (depending on personal preference)
7) add methi to spice mix so that it is fried (presume nothing new - i tried previously adding after the base when it's not as effective)
-
I agree with you on paprika required in the base. Look at Jasper's Munich base - that wored really well for me, so adding some of this to the base could be the killer ingredient - definately not the smoked version otherwise it ruins it imo.
-
Jera,
i've made several derivatives of the CRO2 base to check the influence of coriander, cumin, turmeric and paprika in a base comparing my std curry sauce against actual BIR. the paprika is unfortunately not the killer ingredient but it is more significant than coriander and cumin (in the base) in terms of getting closer to BIR.
very much agree on the smoked paprika in the base also. a small amount in the spice mix works well though.
-
the paprika is unfortunately not the killer ingredient but it is more significant than coriander and cumin (in the base) in terms of getting closer to BIR.
Really!? I find it is by far the other way around :-\
-
hi guys
if you read bruce's curryhouse cookery again about the spice mixture it says that paprika is optional! and is only used for colour. so that is why bruce has optionally left it out i guess ::).
with regards to the temperature the onion/peppper/"tomato puree" is added to the pan in order that you get some indication of how hot the oil is so when is starts to sizzle add the spices/ chilli powder and fenugreek it should start to foam showing signs that it is frying allow time for the toffee smell and colour change then quickly add the base sauce and stir well. fry until the oil begins to rise then add the next ladle of base sauce stir well then add the chicken heat through until the oils rises again remove from the heat spoon off any excess oil and add the corinader
and serve
hope this clears things up a bit more
regards
gary
-
Thanks parker 21, guess I should have re-read Bruce's monograph!
Another question that bothers about 'base' manufacture (oh no! here I go again!), is fried garlic/ginger compared to blended-and-boiled-with-the-onions garlic and ginger!
I here what everyone says about garlic needing frying first. I used to make a KD base in which it was blended and boiled. I have now modified by base and fry the garlic & ginger (home made) puree in the oil, prior to adding spices to the oil followed by blitzed tinned tomarto and tomarto puree. After a few mins I dump all the oil fried stuff in with the boiled onion mix and continue in the 'usual' way!
I have to say I can detect no discernable difference in the taste of the garlic / ginger in the final base no matter which method I use. Not only Bruces's base but one or two others that are highly regarded on here involve just boiling garlic and ginger puree, this suggests that to some extent the 'just-dump-all-the-base-ingredients-in-one-pot' school of base preparation has a lot to recommend it! Certainly saves time and faf!
Another thought, in Bruce's early stuff he sets great store by the 'tarka' part of base preparation, in which tomarto puree is fried then added to the base. I recall he thought it very important and should be done in the final stages to avoid loss of flavour. What has happened to all that business in the latest recommendation??
-
Another thought, in Bruce's early stuff he sets great store by the 'tarka' part of base preparation, in which tomarto puree is fried then added to the base. I recall he thought it very important and should be done in the final stages to avoid loss of flavour. What has happened to all that business in the latest recommendation??
It's been many years since Bruce's original curry house cookery articles and like all of us, his opinion will have changed on certain things. I for one, have stopped trying to compare this recent offering with his older stuff.
-
How do others, that have bought bases from BIR's, think it compares? (Haldi, for example, who I know has bought several bases and cooked them at home?)
This base is quite similar to one I got, from a takeaway, called Curry Busters
I had frozen their sample and compared the both
There is, however, an underlying taste that is missing
Lets face it, if you boil oil and onions for three hours you are going to get a different result from something cooked for a third of that time
You are never going to get the same unless you do exactly the same
The best result I ever had from cooking with a bought curry gravy, was from "Bombay Style"
The aroma that came off when it was heated was incredible
Some of their simpler curries are little more than heated curry gravy with precooked meat/veg
So that is very similar to Bruce's recipe
If I could produce a curry gravy to that standard, my search would be over
-
The best result I ever had from cooking with a bought curry gravy, was from "Bombay Style"
The aroma that came off when it was heated was incredible
Are you sure it was just plain base that you bought haldi, one of the ones you have seen being made?
-
I live in Canada, so I can't answer this myself.
Are UK TA's willing to "sell" you a carton of base gravy only???
I think there have been enough good demo reports on this site for finished curries, in terms of ingredients and methods, that being able to "deconstruct" a base sample could be invaluable.
Is this what you are trying Haldi?
-- Josh
-
Are you sure it was just plain base that you bought haldi, one of the ones you have seen being made?
Absolutely positive, it was just base
But I have never actually seen this one made
The chef has discussed exactly how it's made and has given it to me on several occasions
The base is made daily for next days use. It's quite thick and very yellow
They split it into "gravy" and "curry gravy oil"
The gravy is diluted and reboiled before use
I have tried loads of times to make it
I can get a similar taste but the aroma never happens
-
I can get a similar taste but the aroma never happens
i know it's not what people will want to hear so apologies but it still niggles me - the burner issue (which has been discussed many times).
i feel my bases can't really be improved and as that "missing" ingredient has never materialised i feel it must be down to technique.
i watched the BBC2 Chinese cookery programme last night - glued to it - i love the lady's style. see uses a portable wok burner on propane.
the thing is the gut feeling in me still says the high "wok burner" cooking must do something equivalent to BIR's compared to my measley 1.5 Kw electric hob.
-
Jerry, i totally agree. I had a demo from a very helpful chap at local BIR and he explained every detail of what was in his tubs, spice mixtures etc. He was definately not hiding anything. The ingredients/techniques are exactly what we all use. The only thing i can't match is the cooker. I am thinking the magic taste must be mostly to do with having flames licking up into the base during cooking, as well as the high heat. My crappy electric hob can never match this. If anyone on this site can comment on how mutch improvement a proper gas cooker achieves, i would love to know. I actually tasted the base in this BIR, and it tasted very similar to the safron base. However it was thinner, had a slight taste of chicken, and basically tasted less 'tasty' than the safron base. My conclusion was that the safron base would have resulted in the same delicious curries, had the chef used my own base during the demo. I believe most mildly spiced, oniony base, will do the job. Its what happens afterwards that really matters. Not that i claim to be any expert! Heck i wish i was!!
-
Derek,
i've got it on my list to buy one as soon as cash permits - probably towards mid august - birthday - i have the propane (6kg for plumbing and 19kg for gas BBQ) - parker21 has pin pointed one via ebay ~?20 - looks very similar to one used by the BBC2 Chinese cooking lady.
i did try my gas bbq a little while back but on reflection it's not the right thing - no blue flame.
the SnS June 08 base confirmed the "thinness" key factor you mention. i think CA in his earlier post mentioned chicken stock - must admit i tried this with currytester - the main objective to appreciate ghee - the trouble for me is i've been curried up on veg oil and the ghee too strong a taste for me. i did not feel the chicken stock made a difference - i even made it by boiling a carcase.
i've already far surpassed my original objective on joining the site - to be able to put a decent curry on the table mid week/more often when cash won't permit a TA. with the slight touches BE's info has brought along with my existing experience (the 7 items listed in my earlier post) i feel i'm not that far away - to the extent it's not that discernable ie does not matter and time better spent refining existing recipes. i was very much interested in haldi's 3hr cooking and intend to try this out (my normal cooking being 2hrs). with the burner even if it does nothing for my curries at least i'll be able to do a better rendition of Chinese than i can now which is a pretty poor "chicken cashew nuts with egg fried rice". ;D
-
Hi Jerry, i am already excited about hearing how you get on with a propane gas hob. You clearly have the experience to really make full use of one. I think you are on to a winner there! On the topic of the chicken taste in the base, the BIR chef commented that some restaurants put chicken soup in the base. I actually brought some quality chicken soup after the demo, but somehow couldn't bring myself to add it to last weeks safron batch! It looked so tasty bubbling away as it was, i left it be! ;D
-
Derek,
i'm with you 100%. let the saffron be!
no chicken soup going in for me for sure.
-
i've got it on my list to buy one as soon as cash permits - probably towards mid august - birthday - i have the propane (6kg for plumbing and 19kg for gas BBQ) - parker21 has pin pointed one via ebay ~?20 - looks very similar to one used by the BBC2 Chinese cooking lady.
Hi Jerry
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think propane won't cook the same way as restaurant gas cookers.
I bought a restaurant cooker/hob
It's got the same massive gas rings as a number of takeaways I know
But the flames are totally different to theirs, because I have to use propane gas
The flames in a takeaway/restaurant are big and lazy
Propane makes smaller and far more intense flames
I still can't cook the same way
Believe me, it is very different
Closer than an ordinairy cooker but not the same
-
I don't want to seem like a 'party-pooper' but I feel that this thread is being hijacked somewhat! It sems to turning into a general forum about technique, as opposed to questions about Bruce's stuff. None of my business I know, I'm not a moderator!
I recall Bruce is quite specific about generating the required heat for cooking. It may well be that an electric hob is not up to the job, but I believe that practically any gas hob IS! I think that provided spices are fried 'till the "toffee" smell is produced it does not really matter how fierce your flames are!!
I have a 6 ring Smeg hob, now as it happens, I don't think it's 'much cop' for a variety of reasons ('wouldn't get another!) BUT it does have several sizes of burner, including a so-called wok burner for hight heat. This burner is no where near the output of the sort of thing used in a commercial kitchen, but never the less it does kick out some joules!
I've tried frying my spices by a variety of methods:-
- Over a moderate heat in a heavy cast frying pan on a 'normal' ring
- In a wok over the wok ring, in a light thin wok, on the wok ring
I have found that provided I stop when I get the right smell, it makes NO difference to the final taste! It is slighty eaier to ruin the spice by burning in the wok on the high heat, because it has less thermal inertia and can overheat quickly. But that's it, end of story! I made a Bhuna last night, and the kitchen still had the BIR TA smell this morning.
I DON'T believe I'm an expert, and what I have learnt has largely been due to this site, BUT I REALLY BELIEVE THIS QUESTION OVER USING HIGH OUTPUT BURNERS IS BARKING UP THE WRONG TREE!
-
I DON'T believe I'm an expert, and what I have learnt has largely been due to this site, BUT I REALLY BELIEVE THIS QUESTION OVER USING HIGH OUTPUT BURNERS IS BARKING UP THE WRONG TREE!
Ok , if it isn't necessary,why would you massively multiply your gas bill?
You can turn these gas rings down low, but they don't
In fact, they turn them UP to cook
The funny thing is that this heat is not a burning heat
It is not incredibly intense
I have seen them cooking garlic ginger in oil for a maybe three minutes, and it doesn't burn.
I can't do this on my cookers, it would be black in that time
Now, the curry gravy, that is cooked on low
It's on a simmer for hours
I think they turn the heat up on cooking curries, because it needs it
-
I DON'T believe I'm an expert, and what I have learnt has largely been due to this site, BUT I REALLY BELIEVE THIS QUESTION OVER USING HIGH OUTPUT BURNERS IS BARKING UP THE WRONG TREE!
Your entitled to your opinion, but I believe you are so wrong on that. High heat and shorter time definately impacts a different flavour than using lower heat for longer durations. If this was the case then surely the same would also apply to wok cooking? I got a much high power heater in my new house than I had at my old house - which was still gas the quality and taste of my curries dont even compare - only different being a better gas cooker. I am sorry if you have a electric cooker or a poor gas cooker but no need to shout about it.
-
I don't have an electric or a 'poor' gas cooker; Chris303, I wonder if you have actually read all that I have written?? Perhaps you have just fixated on the line in bold at the bottom of my post!
Haldi, I am very well aware how a BIR chef cooks a curry, at least in one curry-house near me, as I seen a demo. You may well have greater knowledge here, which I defer to. HOWEVER, this chef cooked me the best madras I had eaten up 'till then, and he did not achieve it by using a high heat, or with specacular flames leaping out of the pan! I have seen BIR chefs do this on the tele, but I suspect that is just 'showmanship', for the cameras, and is not necessary.
I'd be very grateful if you would both take the trouble to read my earlier posts in this same thread, they explain WHY I think that high heat in not essential.
Thanx guys.
-
I am very well aware how a BIR chef cooks a curry, at least in one curry-house near me, as I seen a demo.
I didn't mean any offence
I am totally puzzled what the missing factor is, if it's not the cookers
You are right technique is all important
Cooking ingredients/spices for the right time is essential
But when I see a demo, it looks so easy
There is no rush "quick get the gravy in before the spices burn!!!"
At a couple of takeaways I was allowed to cook my own
I'm not bragging, but they were the same takeaway quality that they cook
Now if I can do it there, why is it so different at home?
Puzzled
One day I shall get my restaurant cooker connected to gas mains, rather than using bottled gas
That'll cost a small fortune and to be honest I don't actually 100% believe my theory.
But it's a possibility I need to prove or eliminate
-
You're right Haldi, it does seem to be a bit of a puzzle. It's particularly interesting that you have been allowed to 'flash-up' your own curry in a curry-house kitchen, and got results as good as they produce, which I don't doubt for a moment.
That also knocks the 'cooking smells' notion on its head also. I'm partial to the odd 'Full English' cooked breakfast, but they not good if I've cooked it myself! Presumably that's because: a) I'm a crap cook; or b) becasue I don't enjoy it so much, having had my palate temporarily spoiled by the cooking smells during the cooking.
It's very difficult to account for this, Having read lots of your posts I would be very supprised if your ingredients were not up to scratch, so that leaves technique. Are you sure you're not just being hard on yourself, do you really think your results are not as good as the one you cooked under supervision??
From what you have said I infer that you have seen big flames that did not seem hot. I have noticed that also in kitchen footage on the TV. A blue bunsen-burner type flame would be very hot as it is fully oxygenated, I seem to remeber also on a bunsen, it is possible to close a valve that admits air into the burner, giving a incandescent orange/red sooty flame that is a lot less hot. Perhaps these large professional flame are not fully oxygenated, then they would be cooler. Did the flames at your demos seem less blue (i.e. more orangey at the tips) than at home?
If garlic/ginger paste you saw was able to fry for some time without burning it does seem as though the flame must, if anything, be cooler! A chef tipping the pan to ignit some of the hot contents does not necessarily mean the heatis very high. I sometimes ccok a curry in a small wok (karahi sized), over a normal ring, but when the contents is really hot I sometimes scare the wife by deliberately letting it flare-up! The result does not seem to taste any better though, for me at least!
One thing I would like is a few more demos!!
-
It's particularly interesting that you have been allowed to 'flash-up' your own curry in a curry-house kitchen, and got results as good as they produce, which I don't doubt for a moment.
Actually, when I was allowed to cook there was very little flashing/flambeeing.
The flames were high though
They were creeping up the side of the pan
From what you have said I infer that you have seen big flames that did not seem hot.(i.e. more orangey at the tips) than at home?
The flames are not fierce like on a domestic cooker
They wave in the air as they burn
I believe there is an air valve to adjust for this
I have one on my big cooker but it has no effect on propane gas
The propane always burns fast and blue
The takeaway's flames are really big sometimes
They rise about 20cm above the ring, when no pan is over them
I am sure that they wouldn't waste such gas if it wasn't required
You could quarter the size of your gas bill, couldn't you?
Everything else at these takeaways is done at the cheapest cost possible
I have even seen whole spices (bay leaves & cinnamon) used more than once
I should also add, that this was to no detriment of the cooking
-
I've spent the past few weeks running the supply of base in the freezer down and finally emptied it out. So, last night I had a good trawl of the forum and decided that given the quality of Bruce's previous offerings, this one must be worth a shot. How right I was!!! Here are my ingredients (it is optional to use red or green pepper for this recipe. I used red because I think it works better in base sauces). I didn't include the onions in the photo because they wouldn't fit in.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/gallery/3840_24_08_08_4_48_24.jpg)
At this point I blended the garlic and ginger in some cold water. I didn't think this would make much difference but the effect is actually huge!!! My kitchen is still reeking - it reminds of the smell from making the KD base for the first time. This smell remains strong throughout the cooking process and the end result tastes much more garlicy / gingery than when I add them to the base coarsely chopped.
I added all the ingredients specified in stage 1 to the stock pan and poured in the 2.5 pints of water from my kettle. This exactly covered the ingredients and no more. At this point I thought to myself "Bruce, you precise little recipe maker!!!" and had a feeling things were going to plan. I brought the base to the boil, put the hob down to mark 1 and stuck a lid on. In a hour, it looked like this.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/gallery/3840_24_08_08_4_49_13.jpg)
I then added the tomato puree and spice mix, and boiled for 5 mins. This is how it looked.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/gallery/3840_24_08_08_4_49_58.jpg)
I cooled the pan in the sink and blended away for around five minutes. Here she is.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/gallery/3840_24_08_08_4_51_10.jpg)
Finally, I followed Bruce's curry recipe and plated her up.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/gallery/3840_24_08_08_4_51_46.jpg)
The result? Excellent. Great texture and robust garlicy flavour with a lovely lustrous finish. I personally think this is one of the best. However my gf thinks I've made better (although she really enjoyed it). To be honest she always rates my curries higher when I have popodums, onion salad and lime pickle on the side, so perhaps it was just the lack of trimmings she was missing.
I personally enjoyed this curry so much, I'm going to have to go and make another shortly ;D
Thank you very much Bruce! Brilliant recipe!
-
That looks absolutely fantastic, Bobby
I thought Bruce's new base was first class
My only problem, was that I thought the curry tasted, almost the same as the base.
What did you think?
-
My only problem, was that I thought the curry tasted, almost the same as the base.
What did you think?
Thanks very much Haldi! :D I hope I'm not shocking everyone when I say I don't usually taste the base. :o I've tried a couple of times and I don't really find I can pinpoint what a good or bad one is because they all taste pretty bland (and I don't have the most experienced palette in the world). That said, even if it does, I don't really mind because it (the curry) tastes great.
I'll be interested to find out if Bruce had any other recipes for different curries, that way we could see if they all taste like the base, or if the base is quite versatile.
Have you tried the base with other recipes yet?
I'm pre cooking my lamb right now for curry no 2 for the day. ;D You know it's good when I can't prize myself from the hob! 8)
-
My only problem, was that I thought the curry tasted, almost the same as the base.
What did you think?
Have you tried the base with other recipes yet?
No, not properly
I was hoping Bruce would post specific recipes
That's going to a little while, isn't it?
-
I was hoping Bruce would post specific recipes
That's going to a little while, isn't it?
If you read this recipe he says he'll add to it in late summer / early autumn if he has the time, so here's hoping. However, I think he puts in a lot of time to his curry making and quite fairly may rather sell his recipes in book form, so I would imagine that he has many, many more great recipes up his sleeve.
Let's hope we can all look forward to Bruce getting a book published because I would buy it, that's for certain (and I'm not one to buy books if I can avoid it! :P). That said with a bit of luck maybe he'll give us a little more... Who knows! To be honest he's been more than generous so far and so personally I would feel bad asking for more for free.
-
Nice post Bobby (as normal) - I will really have to give this one a go soon.
SnS ;)
-
I think I'll remove my druken curry post... :P
-
Have you tried the base with other recipes yet?
I've tried it with Stew's Jalfrezi, a CTM, a Korma, and a Vindaloo (just a hotter version of the curry recipe he provided)
As Bruce's base is well-spiced I followed the lead of the curry recipe he provided and reduced the spice mix at curry time for each of the above.
Each as good as I've ever made.
-- Josh
-
As Bruce's base is well-spiced I followed the lead of the curry recipe he provided and reduced the spice mix at curry time for each of the above.
Hey Josh,
is it really that heavily spiced. What's a level tbsp? About 7.5ml assuming a rounded one is 15? (I really don't know I'm just guessing here - maybe someone else can clarify). So it's 4.5 tbsp if I remember correctly, or 4.5 x 7.5ml = 33.75ml. So what's that? Just over 3 dsrt spoons of spice mix? Seems pretty reasonable to me.
-
hi bb
1 tbsp is 15ml and that is when level. 1dsp is 10ml and 1tsp is 5ml.
regards
gary
-
hi bb
1 tbsp is 15ml and that is when level. 1dsp is 10ml and 1tsp is 5ml.
regards
gary
Oh, sorry, I just assumed that was when they're rounded but you're right enough. It is quite heavily spiced. It's still possibly the best base I've used yet. I've just made another Lamb Madras and a mild chicken curry just now. My Madras was great and my gf loved her curry - she said it was great. She still doesn't think it's the best I've made though... I think it must be up there.
-
BB - I guess the question is how much spice mix did you use in your base? I'd figure if you used half the amount the effect on the finished base would be significant. Using this base how much spice mix did you put in the curry itself?
-- Josh
-
BB - I guess the question is how much spice mix did you use in your base? I'd figure if you used half the amount the effect on the finished base would be significant.
Hi Josh, I used level tbsps, literally with a spoon and a knife - I just didn't know how much the volume for one was - I thought 15ml was for a rounded one.
-
Ok I'm going for this one the weekend, just a couple of questions;
I'm guessing that 1 oz of Garlic and Ginger is around 2 Tablespoons each, do you think?
1 oz of Coriander, I'm thinking of using the steams only as I've read in other bases, but going to find it hard to judge 1oz? any ideas?
Oh and do you crush the Ajowan before adding, or add as is?
When making the final curries has anyone added stock from pre-cooked meat as described in his Madras recipe, the others don't mention the stock but I guess it can be added too?
Thanks peeps.
-
I'm guessing that 1 oz of Garlic and Ginger is around 2 Tablespoons each, do you think?
That should be roughly correct.
1 oz of Coriander, I'm thinking of using the steams only as I've read in other bases, but going to find it hard to judge 1oz? any ideas?
I reckon a couple of tablespoons will do it. If you're worried you could buy some scales.
Oh and do you crush the Ajowan before adding, or add as is?
I just add them. I've yet to find a whole one in my curry. They're so small and probably get blended or something.
When making the final curries has anyone added stock from pre-cooked meat as described in his Madras recipe, the others don't mention the stock but I guess it can be added too?
I added it when I made it. I don't think it made a great deal of difference.
Hope I've been of some help ;D
-
I'm guessing that 1 oz of Garlic and Ginger is around 2 Tablespoons each, do you think?
That should be roughly correct.
1 oz of Coriander, I'm thinking of using the steams only as I've read in other bases, but going to find it hard to judge 1oz? any ideas?
I reckon a couple of tablespoons will do it. If you're worried you could buy some scales.
Oh and do you crush the Ajowan before adding, or add as is?
I just add them. I've yet to find a whole one in my curry. They're so small and probably get blended or something.
When making the final curries has anyone added stock from pre-cooked meat as described in his Madras recipe, the others don't mention the stock but I guess it can be added too?
I added it when I made it. I don't think it made a great deal of difference.
Hope I've been of some help ;D
Great help thanks Bobby B, ha I thought someone would say scales, I hate scales... I asked about the Ajowan because I've read that grinding just before use releases more flavor..
So can i pick your brains further since you've made this one,
1. Did you follow the new madras recipe which has less oil than the previous and how much base/stock did you add for each curry? The new one says 7oz ladle plus add more? the old one is 7oz plus stock if I remember. I asked the question because I have recently made around 5lbs of pre cooked chicken and the stock, looks, tastes and smells great.
2. Any other tips greatly received.
Chow
-
Sorry buddy, but I'm not that precise when I make the final dish. I don't really have time to be, plus I've made so many curries I can do the majority of it by eye. When I pre cook my chicken or lamb, I keep the water and use that rather than tap water to add to the curry when I'm thinning it down. I don't always need to thin it down but the BE base is fairly thick on the scheme of things...
-
Chow,
So can i pick your brains further
1. stock & vol
i've only used stock once which was with ghee and collectively they produced too strong a taste for me. i did not feel it was getting me towards the BIR taste so i have not used stock since - the bases on the site are pretty spot on and don't call for it. i use stock in a lot of my general cooking where i find it spot on - it just does not sit well for me in terms of BIR - in fact it's a big no no.
on the volume BE's ladle at 7oz is roughly 200ml. i always use 300ml of base to make ea 200ml portion and would have added a part ladle to make the difference (my ladle is actually 150ml).
2. tips
i found BE's recipe to be very good (and the base). on spice mix and tom puree it is each to his own - after the 1st go i increased the spice mix from 1/2 tsp to 1 tsp and the puree from 1 tsp to 3 tsp. this made the curry like i'm used to. i normally use 2 tsp of spice per 200ml finished curry but never tried it on the BE base.
-
i did not feel it was getting me towards the BIR taste so i have not used stock since - the bases on the site are pretty spot on and don't call for it. i use stock in a lot of my general cooking where i find it spot on - it just does not sit well for me in terms of BIR - in fact it's a big no no.
You're probably right Jerry. I just feel bad about throwing stock (if you can call the water from simmering a chicken breast stock) and don't really feel it's worth keeping for anything else. As far as the lamb goes though, I miss the lamby taste when using pre-cooked meat. Adding the stock gets that lambiness back. I would agree though, I am taking a step away from BIR so I should probably shut up :D
-
Chow,
So can i pick your brains further
1. stock & vol
i've only used stock once which was with ghee and collectively they produced too strong a taste for me. i did not feel it was getting me towards the BIR taste so i have not used stock since - the bases on the site are pretty spot on and don't call for it. i use stock in a lot of my general cooking where i find it spot on - it just does not sit well for me in terms of BIR - in fact it's a big no no.
on the volume BE's ladle at 7oz is roughly 200ml. i always use 300ml of base to make ea 200ml portion and would have added a part ladle to make the difference (my ladle is actually 150ml).
2. tips
i found BE's recipe to be very good (and the base). on spice mix and tom puree it is each to his own - after the 1st go i increased the spice mix from 1/2 tsp to 1 tsp and the puree from 1 tsp to 3 tsp. this made the curry like i'm used to. i normally use 2 tsp of spice per 200ml finished curry but never tried it on the BE base.
Yep I understand that, my stock is a really strong chicken flavor so no good if I was serving up a lamb dish. Most things I've read say BIR's throw the stock but mine looked so good I didn't want to, I've never used a stock before and I won't start now, I'll give it a miss.
The ladle answer makes sense from the way BE writes to, seeing mine is 100ml, I'll try three. Thank for the spice/puree variations, will try those too.
So it sounds like this base is quite thick, what would be the recommendation to thin, I guess more water rather than less onion like it states.
-
So it sounds like this base is quite thick, what would be the recommendation to thin, I guess more water rather than less onion like it states.
I'd try not to stress about it too much Chowie :). Have you tried it already? If so how did it go.
If not, I say just give it a go and follow Bruce's advice as closely as you can, because he's the daddy when it comes to BIR in the home ;D. In his recipe, Bruce says to make a note of where the water was, and top it back up once your done. The base is thicker than some, but works a treat. In the end if your curry is getting too thick, then just add a little water. I'm sure you're going to love the recipe, I know I do!
-
So it sounds like this base is quite thick, what would be the recommendation to thin, I guess more water rather than less onion like it states.
I'd try not to stress about it too much Chowie :). Have you tried it already? If so how did it go.
If not, I say just give it a go and follow Bruce's advice as closely as you can, because he's the daddy when it comes to BIR in the home ;D. In his recipe, Bruce says to make a note of where the water was, and top it back up once your done. The base is thicker than some, but works a treat. In the end if your curry is getting too thick, then just add a little water. I'm sure you're going to love the recipe, I know I do!
Yes, not stressing, just looking forward to it and just want to get it right to see if it's a big difference from my previous curries, I love the idea of being able to knock up 4-5 different curries quickly using this (maybe more later, this is something I've not done before making individual portions, always cooked a 4 to 8 portion of the same curry), just as I see a Curry House would. I think it's that back to basics simplicity stuff that many forget and we try too hard sometimes, I also like the waste not won't not/cheapest way ideas. I will probably start chopping and boiling today and hope to make the curries on Sunday.
-
Ok, I'm off, got everything up together, measured everything as to spec so to speak, it's simmering away right now. Things I've noted so far.
Onions, I bought a 3lb bag, when prepared they were 2.5lbs so added 2 more small, see from pic they are spanish/sweet type onions as the main onion here is red or white and the size of footballs, well almost.
Carrots 4oz was two carrots
Green Pepper I found 4oz was 3/4 of a pepper
Coriander 1oz was half a bunch, Cilantro for me, chopped half a bunch with leaves and steams.
See I used pre prepared (Jars) of Garic & Ginger, just my preference easier and I can buy this cheaply in large quantity something I think many resturants propably use noways.
The rest as is, added all to pot and water level just above everything. This took no time at all, much faster than previous bases I've used, very easy, so far...
-
more pics.
-
See I used pre prepared (Jars) of Garlic & Ginger, just my preference easier and I can buy this cheaply in large quantity something I think many restaurants propably use noways.
Hey Chowie, great effort and fantastic post, we all appreciate seeing the pictures ;D. I'm so disappointed for you that you used the jars of ginger and garlic. For me, the blending of the fresh garlic and ginger in cold water before adding it to the base (Bruce explains why this is important in his post) was a complete revelation. It tastes totally different - much more flavoursome. I usually used either roughly chopped fresh or the paste from the jar and it's nowhere near as good.
That said, you've done a very thorough and precise job and I'm sure the base will be great nonetheless. On the grand scale of things, the garlic / ginger flavour strength is not the be all and end all. However next time, if you get a chance, try the cold water thing because it really made my day.
Cheers and all the best for your curry,
BB.
-
See I used pre prepared (Jars) of Garlic & Ginger, just my preference easier and I can buy this cheaply in large quantity something I think many restaurants propably use noways.
Hey Chowie, great effort and fantastic post, we all appreciate seeing the pictures ;D. I'm so disappointed for you that you used the jars of ginger and garlic. For me, the blending of the fresh garlic and ginger in cold water before adding it to the base (Bruce explains why this is important in his post) was a complete revelation. It tastes totally different - much more flavoursome. I usually used either roughly chopped fresh or the paste from the jar and it's nowhere near as good.
That said, you've done a very thorough and precise job and I'm sure the base will be great nonetheless. On the grand scale of things, the garlic / ginger flavour strength is not the be all and end all. However next time, if you get a chance, try the cold water thing because it really made my day.
Cheers and all the best for your curry,
BB.
Yeah, I tasted the base (before blending) and have been thinking the same (and thought that would get mentioned here, so you've sort of confirmed my fears), however I've used this stuff in other bases before and always thought my curries were a bit too ginger/garlicy. and other bases have only had a little more than this, hence I went for it. I'm debating if to had more when I re-heat after it's all blended but thats probably not a good idea.
-
I'm debating if to had more when I re-heat after it's all blended but thats probably not a good idea.
It's too late buddy, just get it next time. I give you my word that the difference between adding it coarsely chopped vs adding it blended with water is astonishing. I was shocked! :o
Bruce says there's a chemistry type reason for this but I'm not a big chemistry fan :P (first exam I ever failed - so so dull...) We should get SnS on the job, he loves his curry ingredient chemistry run downs! ;D
-
BB - what exactly did you notice the difference being with the g/g pureed?
Personally I think the base is fantastic, and I've made it four times now on the trot. I judge by the finished curries, which have all been my best efforts. Nothing specific to the g/g though, unless I'm just not noticing it. I did notice that Bruce's curry recipe doesn't call for g/g before the spice mix which I was becoming accustomed to.
Curious too as to the "chemistry"
-- Josh
-
what exactly did you notice the difference being with the g/g pureed?
-- Josh
Sorry to barge in on your conversation, but BB is so right.
One thing that is immediately obvious, is the aroma when you are making the base.
The garlic ginger puree makes it smell really yummy, instead of the rank smell of boiling onions.
It gives the whole base a totally different result.
I also cook rice with garlic ginger puree and that's a lovely aroma too
Make your own puree too, because "bought in a jar" has an extra unwanted smell.
I don't know what that is, it must be some preservative.
-
Nothing specific to the g/g though, unless I'm just not noticing it.
Morning Josh! You are blending the fresh garlic and ginger with cold water before adding it right? (sorry if you are and that's what you meant) This is what I was saying makes such a difference. When the base is cooking, the whole house smells of garlic / ginger. Like 1000 times more than if you add it coarsely chopped or add the paste. It's insane. The flavour from the finished base is so much more intense, although it's not like it's really garlic /gingery, more that the full spectrum of flavour from the garlic / ginger has been released into the sauce. The smell when cooking it reminds me of the Kris Dhillon (The Curry Secret) base when you boil the onions (note once again that in the KD base, she says to blend the garlic and ginger in water). Seriously, give it try, you won't be disappointed.
-
There must be something in the processing of canned/tubed ginger & garlic puree's (other than garlic and ginger) that reduces both the flavour and aroma. I personally hate frying with either as it tends to spit like hell in hot oil. This I think is due to the additives and other impurities (vinegar?). Some brands are worse than others.
When I make a curry with processed purees, I now mix the puree into a the oil before adding to the hot pan which reduces the spitting (mess). If I use freshly made garlic or ginger paste this doesn't happen and I can add it directly to the hot oil .. so there must be a difference between the fresh and canned/tinned. It also smells different when cooking.
Many garlic pastes and purees use reconstituted garlic. I guess both taste and aroma is affected during the manufacturing process.
SnS
-
If I use freshly made garlic or ginger paste
Can you recommend a recipe buddy?
Cheers,
BB.
-
I use 50/50 weight of ginger and garlic finely pureed on a microplane( any fine grater should do), then mix with enough oil just to bind it, it keeps in a jar in the fridge for ages too.
-
You are blending the fresh garlic and ginger with cold water before adding it right?
Yes this is what I've been doing with the new BE base. I just haven't personally noticed a huge difference in the aroma of the base while cooking. The end result in a curry is fantastic though.
Whenever I've made other bases in the past I always used fresh g/g through the microplane (no chunks) so maybe I was getting some of the effect anyway.
-
it keeps in a jar in the fridge for ages too.
Really? I've found the fresh garlic/ginger goes off pretty quickly whenever I've tried to make my own and store it in the past. Perhaps the oil you mention (I only have ever used a water mix) makes a difference in the longevity.
To be honest that's why I switched to jarred (in the final curry only, never the base).
Maybe I should try an oil mix.
-- Josh
-
Whenever I've made other bases in the past I always used fresh g/g through the microplane (no chunks) so maybe I was getting some of the effect anyway.
Hey Josh,
I bet that's what's going on. You lucky swine :P
-
Chowie,
I'm debating if to had more when I re-heat after it's all blended but that?s probably not a good idea.
for me it's crucial to use the fresh garlic and ginger in the base and to blend it as BE say's - i found it made a significant difference in both the smell and the creaminess. i've adopted the practise for all the bases i make.
i would not add more garlic/ginger after the blending - better to add at the frying stage finely chopped. i don't use ginger at the frying stage (personal taste, i do in Chinese though) but i do use loads of fresh garlic.
all my experience using jars is a big no no - they being a poor replacement for the fresh stuff and are only for those who need the convenience and happy to sacrifice the taste.
on the amount of onions i used the extra amount. my base did come out thicker than the norm and whenever this happens - i always prefer to add water after cooking the base rather than reduce the amount of onions - onion being a key ingredient to the texture and water being easier to judge to get the thinness right.
-
Mmmmmm I wonder if anybody had noticed - he pre-spices his chickens before adding to the curry - while they are still alive. I wonder if this is the taste we are all missing.............
-
Yes that's it! I must immediately go and buy some chickens and feed them on leftover base! Chortle wheeze guffor, titter titter!
-
Well well well, Having read most of the posts and having finally devoured the last of the various renditions of my own base, I decided to give this a go. Followed the recipe (including the ajowan seeds which were supposedly out of date in 2007 - but the packet had never been opened) exactly which is unusual for me and I even made the spice mix up fresh. In the cooking I noticed a distinct difference in that the oil separated out after about half an hour - tasting the sauce prior to adding the spices was a different experience you could taste all the various ingredients which was quite a fresh taste unlike the previous bases. Then the novel bit adding the spices for the last 5 minutes of cooking - I thought there was going to be too much spice mix but I followed the instructions. Result - a sauce that tastes just like I think it should do. A hint of spiciness, a curry flavour and a neutralness that hinted it could be used for any curry. Unfortunately this is where I then deviated slightly - I couldnt wait for a curry - particularly not three days.
I know....... I'll try it on the curry I hate the most - THE KORMA
Quickly I boned out a chicken and diced the breast and threw it into a pan of boiling water - added oil to the wok then some base sauce 120 ml condensed milk 150gm of creamed coconut 100gm of smashed down roasted salted cashews - brought to the boil added a good pinch of salt 3 tablespoons sugar and the cooked chicken breasts stirred in some chopped coriander and a small pinch of methi. Hey presto curry for 5 - The comments were - you could bottle it and sell it, Its better than any korma I have had before, can i have the recipe, thats the best curry you ever cooked etc
Can recommend this base with Korma recipe
Now for my tea ............ Chicken Patia perhaps?
-
for condensed milk read evaporated milk
-
currytester,
very interesting post - fancy trying out a korma 1st (tut tut).
the korma you outline i feel would go with any half decent base and produce outstanding results.
the real challenge has got to be the BE madras and your own madras for comparison.
i do like the idea of a pathia but hope u can include a madras test.
-
JerryM
Tried it with UB's Patia - no good unfortunately - will stay with the recipe that works best for me. Will try the madras this weekend hopefully
-
I know I've been harping on about how great this base is but now that I've been using and using it, I feel it's too sharp. Blending the garlic and ginger in the water was a revelation for me, but now that I'm used to the result, I think it's actually too strong.
When I cooked this base, it tasted unique, bursting with garlic, and delicious. However now having used it for a good 5 curries, it just tastes too strong! Even the smell when I open my Tupperware of frozen base batches could singe nostril hair... My Madras last night nearly gave me indigestion.
I think I need to go back to SnS June 2008 for some perspective.
-
BB - for your curries using the BE base, how much spice mix are you adding?
I took the lead of the "standard curry" in the BE base recipe and used 0.5 tsp, and no additional garlic or ginger frying in the oil. I agree its a strong base, but this seems to be compensated for in the curry recipe.
I've used it in a korma, with no spice mix used in the korma sauce itself, and it was great.
-- Josh
-
Currytester,
interesting on the pathia result (UB's is the best recipe i've used). i feel a pathia is towards the madras scale of curries and i suppose i did find the BE base a little "heavy" but decent for my std madras sauce. i tried it with admins jalfrezzi (not sure what scale bhuna?) and the taste was superior by a long way.
will await thoughts on the madras. I have it on my mind to scale back the bulk veg aiming for a sort of optimum base that suits all. The best madras curry sauce I get is from the CR02 base (only onion).
-
I agree its a strong base, but this seems to be compensated for in the curry recipe.
I'm following the recipe too Josh. It is really good but just has too much of a bite for me.
-
Yeah i think the oil makes all the difference,seems to keep the air from getting at it,I've had a jar in the fridge for a couple of weeks now and its still fine.
-
Just a thought but in the BE post part shown below, he refers to reducing the spicing if using pre cooked ingredients. As most of us presumably use pre-cooked chicken does this mean the base spice quantity needs to be reduced.
Matt
This sauce replaces the one described in the second series of Curry House Cookery. As it is quite well flavoured, it works well with plain cooked meat or chicken. It will produce a perfectly acceptable curry with supermarket bought cooked chicken. If, however, you want to seriously reduce the spicing, then consider pre-cooking the main ingredient with some whole spices.
-
matt,
i did not find the base to have too much spice in it and thought it was spot on. the saffron that i make regularly actually has more spice in it. it has almost 5 times more spice than KD so it may be down to personal preference.
surprisingly where i did have problems with the BE spec was with the madras - i had to up the spice mix (1/2 tsp spec c/w with 2 tsp i use myself in a 200ml portion finished curry)
-
Certainly agree about the spice for the meal I tend to use between 10-15 ml in a main meal.
Oh Well just an idea.
Matt
-
An interesting point I discovered from the recipe notes was the cooking out of the chilli powder. Yesterday I made the BE Madras and tried my Extra Hot Chilli Powder out - cooked it out as described the Madras was OK (never been a favourite curry) but I got less heat from the chilli powder and havent had the flaming Ar###### effect afterwards. So I have definitely learned something of use not just in BIR cooking but for all aspects - Thanks a very good tip
-
Currytester,
by luck i have always added chilli to the spice mix and as a result fried it as BE suggests - the only problem i find is u can't stop coughing if u don't open the back door.
am sure we will get u sold on madras eventually
-
Tonight's chicken madras made from the Bruce Edwards Curry Sauce....superb
-
Looks just like when I make it. I know how good that dish is.....
-
Hi, I have read with interest all the posts about this curry base and thought I'd give it a go for my first attempt at a base, one question though and probably a stupid one..........but the spice mixture is listed as "SPICE MIXTURE. Coriander / Turmeric / Cumin / Curry Powder 8:7:5:4 parts by volume." what does this mean and what quantities do the relate to?
Thanks
Les
-
Hi, I have read with interest all the posts about this curry base and thought I'd give it a go for my first attempt at a base, one question though and probably a stupid one..........but the spice mixture is listed as "SPICE MIXTURE. Coriander / Turmeric / Cumin / Curry Powder 8:7:5:4 parts by volume." what does this mean and what quantities do the relate to?
Thanks
Les
The Spice mix is just that a mix, so the 8:7:5:4 means
8 Coriander powder
7 Turmeric powder
5 Cumin Powder
4 Curry Powder
Plus I think Paprika is optional, so I made this up in a tub-a-ware container with the above a whole batch using a dessert spoon as the measurements, if you don't want that much try using tea spoons.
-
Today I made a new batch of base gravy, based on the BE recipe, with the following changes:
- Significantly more oil
- Twice the carrots
- I fried the onions in the oil first for about 15 mins before adding the other ingredients. The garlic/ginger puree was added about 10 minutes into the onion frying period
- After blending, I continued to simmer the gravy for about another hour, adding water to maintain the original level
Everything else was per the BE recipe. I reclaimed about a cup of oil at the end. Having seen the discussions on the use of spiced oil, and realizing that some BIRs do it and some don't, I decided to return to that practice, having preferred my own results using spiced oil in the curries.
Observations:
- This twist on the BE recipe created significantly more gravy scum that I had to remove - Bruce's original produced no scum at all
- The taste of the finished gravy was noticeably sweeter - not sure if this was down to the added carrot, or pre-frying the onions
I knocked up a quick Madras sauce afterwards and it was very good. I will try again tomorrow once I'm a bit more objective. I can't smell curry at all having been at it for last few hours.
-- Josh
-
Josh,
interesting observation on the scum - i find same - some recipe's produce little others loads - i put it down to the amount/proportion on none onion vegetable. I?d always pretty much removed scum but having seen Malik I'm not that sure. KD say's that u should.
am sure it was the pre frying of the onion on the sweetness. the carrot does make a little difference but more on texture for me. will be interesting if that extra sweetness for u makes a difference c/w the extra effort of frying the onions.
-
Today I made a new batch of base gravy, based on the BE recipe, with the following changes:
- Significantly more oil
- Twice the carrots
- I fried the onions in the oil first for about 15 mins before adding the other ingredients. The garlic/ginger puree was added about 10 minutes into the onion frying period
- After blending, I continued to simmer the gravy for about another hour, adding water to maintain the original level
Everything else was per the BE recipe. I reclaimed about a cup of oil at the end. Having seen the discussions on the use of spiced oil, and realizing that some BIRs do it and some don't, I decided to return to that practice, having preferred my own results using spiced oil in the curries.
Observations:
- This twist on the BE recipe created significantly more gravy scum that I had to remove - Bruce's original produced no scum at all
- The taste of the finished gravy was noticeably sweeter - not sure if this was down to the added carrot, or pre-frying the onions
I knocked up a quick Madras sauce afterwards and it was very good. I will try again tomorrow once I'm a bit more objective. I can't smell curry at all having been at it for last few hours.
-- Josh
osh, what type of onion did you use? First thing that hit me when tasted the base was the sweet factor but I did not fry, have you made it before and not fried the onion. I ask because I have started to wonder about the types of onion (seeing there was 12 onions in my last BE base) this side of the pond could be sweeter. I used Vidalia yellow onion (grown in Georgia, maybe just originally) which I've researched to be a very sweet onion.
-
osh, what type of onion did you use? First thing that hit me when tasted the base was the sweet factor but I did not fry, have you made it before and not fried the onion. I ask because I have started to wonder about the types of onion (seeing there was 12 onions in my last BE base) this side of the pond could be sweeter. I used Vidalia yellow onion (grown in Georgia, maybe just originally) which I've researched to be a very sweet onion.
Hi Chowie,
I use the standard bulk yellow onions. Having lived in the UK long enough, I know these are the same as the ones used there. I've thought about using Vidalia onions before (as well as reds and spanish!) but based on the posts here, I feared I'd be going away from BIR practice, even if other varieties may be sweeter.
I've made this base 3 or 4 times, and this was the first time I fried the onions. Prior was just straight boiling with the other veg.
-- Josh
-
osh, what type of onion did you use? First thing that hit me when tasted the base was the sweet factor but I did not fry, have you made it before and not fried the onion. I ask because I have started to wonder about the types of onion (seeing there was 12 onions in my last BE base) this side of the pond could be sweeter. I used Vidalia yellow onion (grown in Georgia, maybe just originally) which I've researched to be a very sweet onion.
Hi Chowie,
I use the standard bulk yellow onions. Having lived in the UK long enough, I know these are the same as the ones used there. I've thought about using Vidalia onions before (as well as reds and spanish!) but based on the posts here, I feared I'd be going away from BIR practice, even if other varieties may be sweeter.
I've made this base 3 or 4 times, and this was the first time I fried the onions. Prior was just straight boiling with the other veg.
-- Josh
Yeah I've just been out and bought the same, just standard yellow, to be honest it's not something I've really put much thought into before but I'm learning every day. So I now know my onions so to speak.
-
Tonight I made a king prawn Vindaloo (basically the BE curry recipe with added garlic/ginger and about 1.5 tablespoons of chilli powder). I decided to experiment a bit... I used a clothespin to keep my nostrils closed while I made the curry using this modified BE base gravy.
I took the clothespin off only once the finished curry was poured into the serving dish.
WOW. :o
The smell was amazing. The curry was the best Vindaloo that I've ever produced.
Try it and see if your "perception" changes on how close your efforts are to BIR.
And the changes to the base (including using the spiced oil) are a definite thumbs up for me.
--- Josh
-- Josh
-
Tonight I made a king prawn Vindaloo (basically the BE curry recipe with added garlic/ginger and about 1.5 tablespoons of chilli powder). I decided to experiment a bit... I used a clothespin to keep my nostrils closed while I made the curry using this modified BE base gravy.
I took the clothespin off only once the finished curry was poured into the serving dish.
WOW. :o
The smell was amazing. The curry was the best Vindaloo that I've ever produced.
Try it and see if your "perception" changes on how close your efforts are to BIR.
And the changes to the base (including using the spiced oil) are a definite thumbs up for me.
--- Josh
-- Josh
The things we will try huh, would have loved a picture, but it is a big thing (BE also talking about it) I was not thinking clothes beg just training the wife to make them, pop out (say down the pub or something) and return to a nice curry.
Wishful thinking I know. ;D
-
Josh,
the peg trick sounds real mad. have u tried cooking same without the peg to confirm it's making a difference. i do think the "perception" has a part to play - i'm not sold on it being the answer in total though. The comparison of peg on peg off would go a long way to answering it for sure.
i've settled on 12% carrot by onion volume (ie 100gm in 800g onion) c/w with 7% as per your spec so very close.
did the frying of the onion make a significant difference?
very pleased with your result - well done!
-
have u tried cooking same without the peg to confirm it's making a difference
Not with this base yet, but I'm not sure that's the crux of it. Keeping away from the curry fumes while cooking seems to have an effect how one perceives the taste/smell. I will try with a Madras (minus the clothespin).
did the frying of the onion make a significant difference?
Not sure, but the base is definitely sweeter. I didn't fry until browning. 3 pounds is a lot of onions. Next time I may fry the onions longer for more caramelisation.
-- Josh
-
Hey everyone, im going to make up a batch of the base tomo for the first time and then make the basic curry he recomends underneath using these ingredients
* OIL. 1 Fl. oz.
* THINLY SLICED PEPPER OR ONION. A few slivers.
* TOMATO PUREE. 1 LEVEL tsp.
* SPICE MIXTURE. 0.5 Tsp.
* CHILLI POWDER. As required. 1 LEVEL tbsp. For fairly serious Vindaloo.
* DRIED FENUGREEK LEAVES. 1 small pinch.
* SALT. 2 pinches.
* COOKED MEAT OR CHICKEN. 1 portion / as required.
* CORIANDER LEAVES. Chopped / as required
... but i cant see where it says how much base to use in that particular recipie, can any one recomend how much to use please?
Also, im presuming that this base can be used with any of his other recipies from this document, even though in this particular document the gravy has a different recipe?
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=428.0;attach=131
.
-
Around 250ml-300ml I thinks about right for me. If you have a ladle measure how much liquid it holds and calculate it by how many scoops you need to add.
-
Is that just what you use though, im a bit confused to why it doesnt say exactly how much to use when other recipis do? ??? ???
-
Is that just what you use though, im a bit confused to why it doesnt say exactly how much to use when other recipis do? ??? ???
I think you find people use anywhere between 200ml & 300ml. This is Bruce's update http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3074.0 may make it clearer for you (worth reading), he says 10floz which is around 290ml I believe.
-
Ah thats solves that for me, thank you kindly, this forum is so helpfull and friendly :)
-
Well, ive just made the base and its cooling now, it isnt the red solour that other peoples are, i followed the recipie to the dot apart from the ajowan seeds, this is how it looks...
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9062/brucesaucefirstattemptrg0.jpg)
What would cause it not to be the red solour, will this make a difference to the finished curry?
-
Well, ive just made the base and its cooling now, it isnt the red solour that other peoples are, i followed the recipie to the dot apart from the ajowan seeds, this is how it looks...
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9062/brucesaucefirstattemptrg0.jpg)
What would cause it not to be the red solour, will this make a difference to the finished curry?
I can't remember mine being that red, I take it the tom puree has been added, maybe others used the Paprika in the spice mix with is optional?
-
It should go darker the longer you cook it after it's been blended.
-
That looks about right to me. The BE is more towards the yellow colour than the red.
The oil itself will be red.
-- Josh
-
Well i blended it and it looked the same as eveyone elses.
I did use the paprika in the spice mix so im not sure why the colour wasnt red.
I made the curry last night and it was really good, all my family enjoyed it, a few things ill do better next time but thats the learning part i guess.
Thanks for the recipie bruce :)
Only thing i found was the oil didnt really seperate when i cooked the main dish, what did i do wrong to not make this happen, just not cook it for long enough, or not enough heat maybe?
-
Only thing i found was the oil didnt really seperate when i cooked the main dish, what did i do wrong to not make this happen, just not cook it for long enough, or not enough heat maybe?
the amount of oil rising varies a lot i find. this base is for me spot on for the amount of oil in the actual base. it therefore is sort of 'tight' on oil overall and u may depending on preference need to put more oil in at frying stage - 4 tbsp per 200ml finished portion should do it. i'm not that keen on too much oil so used 2 tbsp and had very little floating oil - but spot on curry.
-
Ive found that the longer you simmer after blending the more the oil will seperate!
-
First of all an apology ; the curry recipe that I gave you last time didn't say how much base sauce to use. It should have specified 10 fl. oz., so if you use a 7 oz. ladle, then one ladleful followed by the rest when part done
Bruce clarified how much curry base he meant to specify in another thread. Please could someone update his recipe accordingly?
Thanks
-
made my first base today, and i was quite suprised by how mild it was. i followed the instructions to the letter as well... I then made the curry at the bottom of the page on page 1. this was really nice but didnt taste overly spicy, im guessing i will just have to experiment with the spicing.. Any tips would be great
-
made my first base today, and i was quite suprised by how mild it was.... I then made the curry at the bottom of the page on page 1. this was really nice but didnt taste overly spicy, im guessing i will just have to experiment with the spicing.. Any tips would be great
Hi ravon. Like you I'm new here too and did the BE base last week and I thought it was quite spicy. Just wondering if you roast and ground the coriander and cumin for the spice mix or if you used the ready ground stuff, the difference is night and day and well worth the effort. Also I used Rajah Hot Madras curry powder that might make a difference.
Regards
Curry On.
-
I wonder if in fact Ravon got it right.
A base should not be overly spicy and definitely not hot. The spicing really comes in when the finished dish is made. Ravon - in the Madras did you use Extra Hot Chilli Powder, or standard? This may be the difference here.
-
I think there is a big differnece using extra hot chilie in the final curry, I use Rajah.
I've tried several 'makes' of curry powder in the spice mix, and as far as Rajah go, I've tried both the mild madras and the hot madras. I use the mild for two reasons: firstly any heat I need comes from additional chilie powder, and secondly I find the hot madras tasted slightly too strongly of bay leaf. The latter effect may be cumulative however, because by base has 3 or 4 bay leaves in it (removed before blending), although that's not much because I make the base in 5.5 ltr batches!
-
for the spices i used a selection of ground spices exept for teh corriander which was fresh, i got all my spices from a local indian supermarket.. Dont get me wrong teh base was really nice you could pick out all the different ingrediants when tasting so was very balanced. I think there may have been two problems, firstly i dints leave the base to cool over night and then blend, i let it cool for a few hours and blended, then made the curry.. The second was that i didnt use chilli poweder i decided to use fresh chillies, which i think i got the quantities wrong..
Im guessing but the more you let it stand the better the flavour will be
-
For the health conscious among us, try using Lo Salt rather than normal salt. It contains 66% less sodium than regular salts but still gives the same flavour, so you can still add the same amount as in the recipes, but without the effects that regular salt gives :)
-
Just made the Bruce base and final curry today, my first time in making a curry from scratch in over a year, since the birth of my daughter hasnt given me the time needed.I have to say, as did friends and family, this produced an excellent result!. It may well be the best curry ive ever made, thoroughly enjoyed by all. It had the restaurant taste, smell and consistency/texture. I made the curry in advance and left it in the oven on about 140C and when it was ready to be served i added some lemon juice and the coriander, it was well worth all the hard work throughout the day. My friend even pinched some of the base and the bruce recipe that i printed and is making a curry for his girlfriend tonight, and said he will definately be makin his own base. Thankyou so much Mr Edwards i salute you.
I was wondering what other final curry's i can make using this base, as i have some left for tonight, i feel that certain bases only work with certain final curry's so dont know which one to try? I like them hot :P :P :P
Any ideas would be most appreciated
-
Can you give the recipe for Curry Powder or the brand that you recommend?
-
The Bruce Edwards spice mix recipe is:
8 parts coriander powder
7 parts tumeric powder
5 parts cumin powder
4 parts curry powder
4 parts paprika (optional)
If its the curry power component of the mix you are asking about, most just use a commercial product. Rajah Gold, TRS and East End seem to be popular. The Rajah seems to be the most recommended.
-- Josh
-
The spice mixture: 8, 7, 5, 4, 4 parts of what? How is he measuring these?
I'm confused...and probably quite dumb! :-\
-
Hi Nai
The quantity isn't important only the ratio. You could use cups if you were making a big batch, or tsps if you ony want a small batch. It doesnt matter either way. Once you have mixed together your spice mix you use the required amount as per the recipe.
Hope this helps.
-
Thanks Chriswg. I was confused because total spice mix using teaspoons was 24, and the required 4.5 tbls is only 13.5 teas. But like you said, as long as it's 4.5 level tbls that goes into the base, should be fine. Thanks again. :D
-
If you have measuring spoons:-
2 lev tps corriander
1 3/4 lev tps turmeric
1 1/4 lev tps cumin
1 lev tps paprika
1 lev tps 'curry'powder
'simples'!
-
Just made my standard madras using this base and spice mix. The curry is very nice, looks the business and I'm happy to say that the ajowan isn't as strong in the final dish as I had expected...though as I sit here five minutes after tasting I can still taste the ajwain round the sides and back of my tongue - it's not unpleasant, just different. Very nice curry, but it doesn't beat the same recipe and spice mix when used with Razor's base..Razor's base delivers deeper flavour and a nice hint of that old fashioned taste IMO.
I'll have to make more dishes with it - only used it for SL's chasni in which I didn't taste or rather aftertaste the ajowan like I can with the madras ???....Perhaps the flavour has developed more through the base whilst it's been sitting...
All in all it's nice, but I've had better :)
-
I've never used the lovage in the recipe as it is optional and I felt OK about leaving it out as it is a bit unusual. Have you made the BE base without lovage Domi, and if so how did you find it?
-
Hi Stephen ;)
Never made the base before at all but I've used the lovage before so I only added a scant 1/4 tsp. I don't know if I'd make it again without the lovage because.....well I don't know how to explain it really, the base is tasty yet somehow a bit bland in comparison to final dishes using Razor's. Bland is too strong a word and a bit negative which isn't my intention...it just lacks something for me and I think the lovage gets in the way of knowing what that is exactly ???
-
I tried this base a few months back but I found that it smelt and tasted very strong on spices and heat (chilli) and never achieved as good a result with the finished curries as some of the other bases on this site, though I have to admit I prefer medium to mild curries rather than vindaloo or phall's, it's interesting that everytime someone tastes a genuine bir base on this site they mention how sweet and mild it taste's, maybe I should have watered it down more.
-
wow, heat is something I would never have associated with this base at all and have made Kormas with it on several occasions. I find it does taste quite mild and sweet also. I take on board what you are saying about Razor's base having deeper flavour though.
-
I just hit this again today, after not knocking up a base in some time. I went to the Indian cash and carry and replaced all my ageing spices with new ones. What a delicious result!
The bad thing about forums is that quality content gets lost in day to day discussion. I see this thread hasn't been posted in for "at least 120 days". This has to be one of the best bases for someone starting off as it's so well explained, and delivers great results. This is one of those bases I'll always revisit.
-
Certainly have not tried the base and I don't think i've read the thread either :o . Don't know how i missed this one :-\. That'll give me something to do later on ;D
-
Certainly have not tried the base and I don't think i've read the thread either :o . Don't know how i missed this one :-\. That'll give me something to do later on ;D
You need to get on it, I've got a batch just now and am really enjoying it. ;D
-
You need to get on it, I've got a batch just now and am really enjoying it. ;D
Was planning to do ifindforu's base next, followed by the saffron. I'll add this one next. Think i'm going to be doing a lot of curry eating ;D ;D
-
You need to get on it, I've got a batch just now and am really enjoying it. ;D
Was planning to do ifindforu's base next, followed by the saffron. I'll add this one next. Think i'm going to be doing a lot of curry eating ;D ;D
whatch you dont turn colour be calling you abdul next lol
-
I'm new to this site and I'm in the middle of cooking this base. I've got to the spice mix and don't know how to make it. Help!!!!!
-
I'm new to this site and I'm in the middle of cooking this base. I've got to the spice mix and don't know how to make it. Help!!!!!
Welcome aboard Karenc. Here's the spice mix. Just add put stated quantities into a container with a lid. Give it a good shake - done
EDIT - in case it's not obvious, depending how much you want a part is whatever unit of measure you wish to use. I would use a level teaspoon. This will give you just over 9 tbsp of mix, enough for the base with mix left for future curry cooking using the base ;D. Let us know how it goes with a pic if possible. Good luck ;)
The Bruce Edwards spice mix recipe is:
8 parts coriander powder
7 parts tumeric powder
5 parts cumin powder
4 parts curry powder
4 parts paprika (optional)
If its the curry power component of the mix you are asking about, most just use a commercial product. Rajah Gold, TRS and East End seem to be popular. The Rajah seems to be the most recommended.
-
I'm new to this site and I'm in the middle of cooking this base. I've got to the spice mix and don't know how to make it. Help!!!!!
or for a smaller quantity
2 lev tps corriander
1 3/4 lev tps turmeric
1 1/4 lev tps cumin
1 lev tps paprika
1 lev tps 'curry'powder
;) Frank.
-
Hi karenc, looking forward to hearing how you get on starting from scratch
Regards
ELW
-
Thanks for that peeps. Am on the home straight now! Going in for the kill. Bruce says "it's unlikely you will be doing this for the first time" er wrong, this idiot is. I'll post a picture, promise, good or bad.
-
Thanks for that peeps. Am on the home straight now! Going in for the kill. Bruce says "it's unlikely you will be doing this for the first time" er wrong, this idiot is. I'll post a picture, promise, good or bad.
I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised ;)
-
For anyone starting out this is great. It was the first, or one of the first, sauces I made when I first found this fabulous site and it tasted like a very spicy Tomato soup. It really gives a powerful flavour when cooked as a curry as per the instructions. Very versatile.
-
It has probably been very remiss of me to have never tried this base and curry, so today I have decided to give it a go. I found that this topic has developed into 2 threads, being this main one and then another which is follow up comments from BE, found here, https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3074.msg27201#msg27201 (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3074.msg27201#msg27201).
Upon reading both of these threads, I noticed one very odd contradiction, as shown in the following quotes from the 2 threads.
As you know I have been in discussion with Bruce Edwards and he has kindly provided CR0.co.uk with an article on the restaurant Curry Sauce and Basic Curry. So here it is.......
Bruce Edwards
.........
I always make curry sauce in late afternoon, and when I reach this point, I refrigerate it, then blend it the next morning. So you can follow exactly if you want, or fit it into your own schedule. But I think it is probably best if you at least allow it to cool fully before blending. When you are ready, top up the water to its' original level. Then blend until really smooth, and return to the fridge.
It is my opinion [but not proven] that curry sauce is at its' best on the third day after cooking.
......
Original Post Here http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2815.0
Comments received from Bruce Edwards 14/10/2008
The method I have presented is tailored for home use. In a restaurant, it will be modified to meet local requirements. If, for instance, the production of sauce is on-going and it is being used straight away, it could be blended while still hot on top of the cooker, and used immediately. The remnants of one pot could be added to the next; after all, it has more flavour than water. I have done this myself. It gives some interesting variations of flavour. What I wouldn't do is re-heat blended sauce that has been allowed to cool, as there will be a marked change / deterioration in flavour. And of course, any excess oil floating on the base sauce can be used in the cooking of dishes.
BRUCE EDWARDS.
NORTH NORFOLK.
7th. OCTOBER 2008.
So, the contradiction is quite obvious. He initially says that he always uses his base after it has been cooled overnight and blended the following day. He goes on to say that he finds it to be at its best on day 3. However, in the follow up comments he says that he wouldn't use the base once it's been cooled and re-heated.
Curiouser and curiouser. Has anybody still hanging around from early days used this base before, and if so, did you notice any deterioration / improvement from allowing it to mellow before use.
Note: I assume the forum admin at this time was Stewy and not Yousef.
-
He initially says that he always uses his base after it has been cooled overnight and blended the following day. He goes on to say that he finds it to be at its best on day 3. However, in the follow up comments he says that he wouldn't use the base once it's been cooled and re-heated.
No ! He goes on to say that he "wouldn't do is re-heat blended sauce that has been allowed to cool" — "re-heat", not "use". Yes, of course, "re-heating" is implicit in "using" but he was writing in the context of mixing one batch of sauce with another, not of cooking a curry.
--
** Phil.
-
I don't see that logic at all Phil. I understand what you are getting at but, he actually says that the gravy, once cooled and re-heated suffers a marked change and deterioration, and yet that is what he suggests in the first place. I believe it is usual in the BIR method to use gravy that is already hot when added to the dish pan and so if it's been cooled, it must be re-heated to use. No matter which way I look at it, I see a contradiction.
Regardless, I have to say that when I cooked this gravy last night, I used it immediately to make the basic chicken curry. I'd pre-cooked the chicken (breast and thigh) by poaching in a weak chicken stock with a bit of mild curry powder. (Knorr Chicken Powder and Clive of India Curry Powder.) The resulting curry was superb. However, I have to agree with other earlier comments in that for some reason the heat from chilli powder appears to be amplified when using this base gravy. As my family is not fond of hot curry, I used only a small amount (about a tsp in a double serve) of "Mild" Chilli Powder and the dish was on the edge for my wife, whereas I and my daughter found it ok. The original recipe calls for a TBSP of Chilli Powder in a single serve for a "serious vindaloo". I won't be going there.
I also made a very basic Masala Prawns using a splash of the gravy and it was also delicious. I regret not trying this gravy earlier and Mrs Livo has already requested that I make a Lamb Curry using the remaining (refrigerated) gravy. She wants to take it to work next week to share for her staff luncheon.
If you've never tried this gravy, or perhaps it's been a while, I recommend giving it a try. Oh, nearly forgot. I only made a 1/2 quantity which is plenty for home use and will easily produce 4 or 5 double serve dishes.
-
Thanks for bringing this back to life Livo. I was going to re-do the Chat GPT vindaloo tonight but tone down the heat for me and the missis, but if you regret not trying this old base sooner, that’s good enough for me. I will 100% be going the 1 TBSP chilli powder vindaloo route at some point but first instance will cook for me and the missis.
Feeding unused base to his chickens? I bet that makes for even better curries!
I will be making the base via trusty instant pot pressure cook rather than 1 hour slow cook.
It’s brought excellent results on other bases.
Will report back with pic.
-
I see no reason why the instant pot wouldn't work robbo, and I'd imagine you could put the spices in from the beginning without too much change. It would be done in 20 minutes under pressure. A stop and start is do-able anyway if you want to add the spice at the end. I'll try my instant pot knockoff multi cooker next time.
The simplicity of this base really shows that all the fluffing about with 3 hour gravies and cooking till the oil seperates is totally unnecessary. Bruce actually gives a good explanation of why oil separation is not important, or possible, with home sized base gravy.
The comments about the inclusion or not of the radish is interesting. I've only ever seen Mooli radish used in one other (very complicated) base gravy. It's not a very Indian ingredient at all. I would never bother to include it again.
Off topic comment: I saw an article over here about a month ago informing that the parent company of Instant Pot has gone belly up. They also sell Pyrex and Corningware among other brands.
Haha. Yeah. Pre-seasoned chickens. Very funny.
-
Yesterday was a good day. Made chicken tikka on the grill in the morning. And then this base in the afternoon. Pressure cooked for 20 mins, natural pressure release, added the ‘part 2’ ingredients then sautéed 5 mins before cooling a little. No pot of cold water to cool completely, just gave it 10 mins then blended. No need to top up water as no evaporative loss in Instant Pot.
Made a vindaloo, used 2 tsp extra hot chilli powder and, hands down, the best curry I have ever made. So good, I neglected to take a pic. And ended up waxing lyrical to the missis far too much I’m sure. Seriously, I’m still thinking about the dish this morning.
I made the full batch and am so glad I did. Got 6 more portions in the freezer.
The ingredient list for the curry itself is so sparse, I wondered what kind of dish would result. Also a bit worried at the amount of turmeric in the mix powder. But in the end, it was amazing.
Thank you again for bringing this back to life Livo. I think this is ‘the one’.
Robbo
PS: yes I’d heard about the instant pot company filing for bankruptcy. How on earth does a company with such great products get into such trouble? Very sad.
-
Well there you go. What do say about forests and trees? Glad you enjoyed it as much as I did. I didn't cool the base in a water bath to blend it either as I used a stick blender. I think that instruction is more for safely blending if transferring to a lidded blender.
I've defrosted an easy carve leg of lamb and 2 chickens so later today I'll be doing pre-cooks ready to cook curries for Mrs L. I'll make sure she doesn't get to take all of it to work though as I'm very keen to try this gravy with the lamb.
An hour or less to make a top notch base gravy. I'm also glad I found this one and it was pure chance. I did a search for Chip Shop Curry Sauce and for some reason the second thread, started by Admin, came up so I started reading it and then followed the link to the main thread. Just goes to show that there is really good stuff buried in this forum.
-
[OT] What exactly is "an easy carve leg of lamb", Livo. Are the sheep genetically modified to ensure this (presumably desirable) trait ? I have to confess that using bog-standard non-genetically-modified sheep as my starting point, I have never encountered a "hard to carve leg of lamb" — I wonder if the latter are found only in the Antipodes ...
-
An easy carve leg of lamb is one that has been almost completely deboned. Only the shank (shin) bone remains which gives the ability to easily carve the majority of the cut as it is mostly boneless. The upper (thigh) part of the leg has had the bone removed and is usually tied with 3 wraps of butchers twine to hold shape.
I always buy all that I find when reduced for quick sale. I usually cut the shanks (with bone) off and freeze them seperately for lamb shank dishes and keep the boned out section to either roast or make curry or souvlaki. The last 3 I bought were frozen whole.
I also buy boneless chickens whenever I see them. Gary Larson drew a Far Side cartoon of the boneless chicken ranch. It's very hard to find the eggs though as they're quite rare.
-
Sigh, near-boneless lamb, boneless chicken — what next, shelless eggs ?! I have always believed "the nearer the bone, the sweeter the meat", and I am unconvinced that this continues to obtain once the bone has been removed. Incidentally, I don't know when Kentucky Fried Chicken (or "KFC", as they euphemistically prefer to be known) started offering boneless chicken, but when I ordered a portion yesterday and answered emphatically "with bone, please", the waiter smiled and I asked him "do you not agree that the flavour is better on-the-bone ?" and he replied "Oh yes, but these days most of our customers don't seem to know that ...".
-
I'm buying them and using the lamb meat for curries and souvlaki skewers Phil. I also buy whole legs and have to debone them myself. Buying easy carve just saves me some time and effort. I can buy lamb rump or other portions without bones, like rolled shoulder for example, but the legs work better for me. In saying that though, I have seasoned and roasted these legs, as well as those on the bone, and I find no real discernable difference in flavour. I've never needed to spit it out.
Boneless chickens, seasoned and cooked well, are absolutely delicious. Do you never buy and use breast or thigh fillets? I believe there would be a more significant flavour difference between birds that are free range or corn fed compared to factory grown meat birds. I once taught myself to debone whole chickens but only did it once. Aren't turduckens assembled using boneless birds?
Back on topic. I've pre-cooked 3.5 kg of mixed chicken breast and thighs as well as 1 lamb leg which was just under 2 kg of diced meat. I again used Misty Ricardo's pre-cook recipes and today I'll make some dishes using this Bruce Edwards base gravy. For both my own and my wife's convenience I've purchased a pack of 16 Haldirams frozen naan.
-
Also back on topic. I’m defrosting some skinless, boneless chicken things overnight, plus a portion of this new (to me) base. The missis has dinner with daughters tomorrow so that’s a curry night for me. Vindaloo begging to be repeated.
This base is an absolute winner for me. Today I typed up the base and vindaloo recipes, printed them and made a neat little laminated card, double-sided, to keep in the pantry.
Yes, I am that serious about this. It’s so good.
Robbo
-
I've just decided that I don't have enough to make Mrs L's curry dishes for tomorrow so I'm about to put another batch on. This time I'll do it under pressure in 20 minutes to half hour. The thing I like about it Robbo is that it is so easy, and it really does make a good curry. Make sure you let us know how the vindaloo works out.
-
Seriously? This Brucey recipe is a bog-standard (generic) Bangladeshi base gravy from years ago. Blank canvas ilk. Dutch class II onion style. Been there, done it, got the tee shirt too. :wink:
Rob
PS mutton for BIR curry, save the lamb for tikka/kebabs.
-
Order me that tee-shirt. It may be years old, but for me this is the closest to BIR I have come across and makes a delicious curry.
The simplest set of ingredients.
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/7fa06290ea231647a5c1d7e134e0759a.jpeg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#7fa06290ea231647a5c1d7e134e0759a.jpeg)
First reduction
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/7d6b2a9552f27ff7be1e6672016ce26e.jpeg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#7d6b2a9552f27ff7be1e6672016ce26e.jpeg)
Final cook
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/95fef2d7f8fb60a68ecea1a9a8b45f00.jpeg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#95fef2d7f8fb60a68ecea1a9a8b45f00.jpeg)
Chicken tikka vindaloo
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/c646698ca95076fc370488312bbf2ab2.jpeg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#c646698ca95076fc370488312bbf2ab2.jpeg)
This is so good, I’m defrosting another portion of base and cooking another tonight.
Robbo
-
Seriously? This Brucey recipe is a bog-standard (generic) Bangladeshi base gravy from years ago. Blank canvas ilk. Dutch class II onion style. Been there, done it, got the tee shirt too. :wink:
Rob
PS mutton for BIR curry, save the lamb for tikka/kebabs.
Yes, seriously KB! That must be why the staff at my wife's work asked her if I would take orders, and after eating curry for dinner on Tuesday night and lunch at work yesterday, Mrs L happily ate it for dinner again last night and an hour later heated up another serving. At the school word spread quickly and luckily I'd cooked plenty, as they soon had the Campus Principal pay a lunchtime visit to the faculty. The faculty staff then requested the leftovers be kept in the fridge at work so it can be eaten again for lunch today.
When I was recently making Brum Balti, with the 3 pot, ahkni stock gravy using wheelbarrows full of cassia, and other methods, she turned her nose up at it. While this Brucey gravy may well be bog standard Bangla recipe from 15 - 20 or more years ago, I'm glad I found it here and the proof is in the pudding, so they say. Some of the best curries I've cooked have been this last week using this base gravy.
As for mutton, it is not something we see over here unless you travel to the city and go to speciality butchers. I can remember mutton being available when I was a child, but it was always spoken of as a poorer quality and cheap cut. I'd have to ask a local butchery if they can obtain it, but unless it's cost effective I'll keep using lamb.
-
Order me that tee-shirt. It may be years old, but for me this is the closest to BIR I have come across and makes a delicious curry.
I can't vouch for it being true BIR, but I'd imagine it has to be. All I can say is that it makes darn fine curry. I've now made the basic chicken curry, Mango Chicken (the test in my household), pseudo Butter Chicken, Lamb Curry and a Coconut Seafood Curry (Prawns and Pink Ling). All 5 dishes were delicious and easily as good as I've had served anywhere. There was no missing 5% to even think about.
This is so good, I’m defrosting another portion of base and cooking another tonight.
Luckily for me I was wrong in thinking I needed to make more for my wife's dishes. I now have another week of curry to get through the additional gravy I made anyway. I will need to freeze some portions.
-
Third vindaloo last night equally as good as previous. I stuck with the same 2 tsp of extra hot chilli powder and was plenty hot for me but I do foresee a bash with an extra tsp as per Bruce’s ‘serious’ vindaloo suggestion in my future.
Next dish will be something less spicy so the missis can try, but this base is a winner for me. The tip about adding a few slivers of onion or pepper to the cold pan with the oil, to know when the oil temp is right to start frying the spices was new to me and very useful. Haven’t been this pleased with a homemade curry in a long time, and now should have some level of consistency and repeatability.
Robbo
-
Hi Robbo
I resorted back to this base when the jb base was all the rage as I personally couldnt get on with it.
BE base has always been my goto gravy and when Im not making baltis then this is my gravy of choice.
I have never made a duff curry from it
Regards
Mick
-
Hey Mick
This is also my go-to base and I couldn’t be happier with the results it brings. The ingredient list in the vindaloo is so sparse I thought it couldn’t work, but boy was I wrong. I had planned a curry mid-week but we had a couple of days where it reached 100 F (with the humidity it was ‘real feel of 111 F) and I do all my curry outdoors so skipped it.
Maybe tomorrow….
Robbo