Curry Recipes Online
Beginners Guide => Hints, Tips, Methods and so on.. => Cooking Methods => Topic started by: JerryM on September 15, 2008, 05:35 PM
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Following spottymaldoon?s prompt (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=200.msg26219#msg26219 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=200.msg26219#msg26219)) I?ve carried out a few trials on spice/oil frying. The results were not obvious to me or as expected.
Photo 1
had 2 attempts at this varying amount of oil. 1st was 1 tbsp fresh veg oil, 2nd was 3 tbsp oil both with 1 tsp paprika. Method add oil to hot pan, added spice and stirred (a few secs say 15), poured out into cold dish ? result not good - tasted burnt.
Photo 2
1 tbsp oil, 1 tsp DD?s spice mix, 1 tbsp tom puree. Added all to pan on high and stirred (pretty much like my normal method), poured out into cold dish ? result not bad but spice taste had not fully developed
Photo 3
1tbsp oil, 1 tsp DD?s spice mix, 3 or 4 tbsp of water (covered bottom of 9? frying pan). Added all to pan on high and stirred, poured out into cold dish ? result ok ? spice flavour good and fully developed, no burning
Photo 4
1 tbsp oil, 1 tsp DD?s spice mix, 3 tbsp watered down tom puree. Added all to pan on high and stirred/swirled pan, poured out into cold dish ? result very nice ? spice had fully developed and sweetness of tom puree was strong.
Photo 5 (will add photo later if needed, 4 photo limit to postings)
As photo 4 but using LB spice mix. The chilli present in the spice mix came through giving an extra lift.
Photo 6 (ditto)
As photo 5 but using reclaimed oil. Extra spice in the oil was clearly present and akin to that of BIR oil.
Observations
The dry spice mix burns very easily. The addition of water causes the spice to emulsify in the oil giving a far superior tasting result. The fresh oil does not reach the intensity of taste found in a BIR. Swirling the pan is effective at frying off the water but the spoon is still needed to stop any sticking. This is a good method for evaluating different spice mixes.
Conclusions
Watered down tom puree is a must c/w the paste on it?s own. The spice, oil and watered puree should be added to the pan together (it does not seem to matter if the pan is hot or cold). Combined swirling and stirring is a good way to cook the free water off. The frying of the fresh oil does not produce the BIR intensity.
In summary hot frying to produce the toffee/choking smell needs to start off with plenty of free water to allow the mixture to emulsify and fully develop the taste of the spices.
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Hi Jerry,
3 and 4 look good.
A lot or BIRS i have been to use pre mixed spices, cooked onions etc to the side of their cooker.
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Great work, this is where it's at, the most important part I believe, was thinking of trying similar and tests with water, very interesting.
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I?ve carried out a few trials on spice/oil frying. The results were not obvious to me or as expected.
Jerry, those splatters LOOK so damn authentic they make my mouth water! A very interesting scientific experiment.
I did a few humble efforts myself, all with dry spices, and there was nothing whatever worth reporting. My house still smells mostly of old socks.
Spotty
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Jerry - did you reach any conclusions on the use of reclaimed oil vs fresh?
Kind of multiple experiments going on there, I'm a little challenged to net it out.
-- Josh
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Josh,
i've been using reclaim for a while now (and swear by it). the trouble is the method i use involves a lot of phaffing (too much for a BIR).
the oil frying was aimed at answering the question - from the tests i did i found the fresh gave a significantly inferior result - well lacking compared to BIR oil. it may well be that i've missed a trick ie more spice or the effect of the evaporation of the base (which i did not add) - so i'm still not 100% sure what is the BIR way - i've read a post (well several) on making the stuff and these are tempting to try.
i'm now looking to improve the reclaim technique as a result of the trials. i've read an existing post which reclaimed the oil before blending - this would be a much easier method than after blending (which i do at the mo). the only difficulty i see is knowing how much oil to leave in the base. i intend to try it out in the next base.
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i've now cooked using this different method (having used the toffee smell method to date) and have adopted it as my std. the ease and consistency are key factors.
i also feel i need to invest in one of those long handled chef spoons. the swirling action of the pan causes a coating to be spread around the edge of the pan. u naturally feel this needs to be stirred back into the mix and improve the taste - a long handled spoon is needed to avoid getting attacked by the spitting.
i used garlic/ginger paste (2:1 and added oil) instead of finely chopped garlic and felt although only a slight difference we probably had a preference for it.
method of cooking (200ml finished): 2 tbsp oil in pan, switch on full heat, add 2 tbsp garlic/ginger paste (depend on how much water added - i was aiming for 1 tbsp of garlic & ginger), let this fry until emulsified "thickened" (30 to 60 secs), add 2 tbsp of tomato paste (1:1 water) combined with 2 tsp spice mix and fry until emulsified (30 to 60 secs), add 1/2 ladle sauce and fry until emulsified (30 to 60 secs), add rest of base and ingredients. i added 1/4 tsp of chilli to any spice mix that does not already contain chilli feeling it makes a difference.
all times are approx the emphasis is to watch what's happening as u can't rely on smell as with the toffee method.
the method is pretty much as CA spelt out in this post http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,1851.0.html (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,1851.0.html)
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have used my chef spoon for the 1st time and felt it's a must.
i also adopted the Malik's cooking technique along with the emulsification method.
i think their might be something in it. would appreciate thoughts (both technical and from experience).
have attached pic of what it did to my pan. this pan was black when i started (supposedly fully seasoned). i seasoned the pan on electric hob and now feel this was useless.
i swashed the curry around the pan like Malik's then gave the rim a clean round.
i'm thinking along the lines of deglazing a roasting tin when making gravy.
i think i need to season my pan on the gas stove to assess further. i feel this swashing and scraping has something to do with the taste.
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i feel this swashing and scraping has something to do with the taste.
It may do but probably the opposite of what you think! I've watched the malik chefs for long enough now to see that this very deliberate scraping around the edge of the pan is done to avoid any build up and sticking or caramelisation of the sauce that inevitably gets on the edge of the pan. In fact, when they leave a pan for too long I've seen them do the same scraping and then throw those scrapings away.
So if your thought was that they want to use these 'caramelised' scrapings to add that something extra to the taste, well it appears to be the exact opposite.
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Jerry, my wife would rip my b***s off if I made that much mess :o
Why do you say the chef's spoon is a must?
-- Josh
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Jerry, my wife would rip my b***s off if I made that much mess :o
-- Josh
;D LOL ;D
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Why do you say the chef's spoon is a must?
the initial reason was to stop my arms/hands getting burnt. when cooking with my new stove with a thinner base i get a lot more evaporation and splashes that go along with it. hence the mess - i have to clean it up myself so good lady is happy providing i mop the floor as well. what a skivie for the cause.
having use the "big" spoon i felt it was naturally changing the way i cook ie the Malik's way in that i was sort of sloshing about to mix the sauce and then scrap the rim (what i'd sloshed).
i had it on my mind that the scraping was caramalisation causing the sort of smoky taste i find in a real BIR. from what Secret Santa has seen then it must be something else or i'm imagining a difference - i need to cook a bit more to be sure myself - hence the request for a sanity check from others.
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Thanks Jerry.
I've looked for something here called a "chef's spoon" but haven't found anything. The closest to what I saw in your pic (and other pics in the past) is a serving ladle.
Anyone have an internet link to a "chef's spoon"?
-- Josh
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I've looked for something here called a "chef's spoon" but haven't found anything. The closest to what I saw in your pic (and other pics in the past) is a serving ladle.
same thing
http://www.nevilleuk.com/product_list.asp?p_subcategory=KU18
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Josh,
those are they in UB's link. i went for the longest i could get (around 16").
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Yeah I bought a chef spoon around 5 weeks ago and love it, I can't really explain why it just feels better when cooking.
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i went for the longest i could get (around 16").
;D I'll bet you did...
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love it, I can't really explain why it just feels better
;D 16" is very long!
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have revisited this. the question on my mind was: does hot fry spice in oil produce better result than hot fry spice in free water.
the answer is that they produce the same result. the hot fry in oil is far quicker.
any thoughts or ideas for further experiment appreciated.
these were the detail conclusions:
Conclusions
1) use spoon side to fry spice in oil. Use flat for rest of fry
2) fry spices in oil until foaming stops typ 15 sec then quench watered Tom puree (adopted 11 secs)
2a) typ 20 sec toffee smell "almost burn"
3) quench fry off 1 chef base is good enough. If more Caramelisation needed Additional 2nd and 3rd fry off do help
4) no difference between hot fry spice in oil c/w base and or puree
5) ingredient proportions have far greater impact than fry method
6) toffee smell occurs after the spice aroma has gone and just before burn
7) black mustard seeds big no no - crunchy and bitter. Black cumin possibly ok but not a step improvement
8 ) water : puree of 3:1 makes 4 and 1 chef if use unit tbsp
9) passata worked better than blended tin toms
reference points:
1) chef at Zaman restaurant end point frying spices "when nice smell is coming"
2) take "singe" as fry spices until they start to stick to the bottom of the pan. not sure where i got this from