Curry Recipes Online
Curry Base Recipes => Curry Base Chat => Topic started by: Bobby Bhuna on October 27, 2008, 06:02 PM
-
Hey guys,
So yesterday I fancied making a base sauce. The one in my freezer is crap, as I tried frying the turmeric and chilli powder from the start (suggested to me by a guy in the asian cash and carry) and overdone it a little ::)
So are the ingredients:
- 6 largish onions
- 1 tin tomatoes (I bought a more expensive tin this time and notice the difference over the cheapo ones)
- 2 sticks celery
- 1 half red and green pepper (the pepper was half red and half green)
- 2 large carrots
- 1 bulb garlic finely chopped (this really got the happy medium between coarsely chopped and blended in water. I will be sticking to this method)
- about the same amount of ginger, finely chopped
- half a tin of chick peas
- 1 bunch corriander - 30g
- 500ml veg oil
- a few bays leaves (this was far too much)
- 50g creamed coconut
- 1 tsp adjwain seed
- 1 5cm stick cassia bark
- a few cracked green cardomom pods
- 1 tbsp methi
- 1 tbsp salt
- 1 tbsp sugar (dont try it)
- half a tsp bicarbonate of soda
- 4 tbsp BE spice mix
Method:
Chop everything up and put it all in a great big pan, aside from the spice mix and fresh coriander. Cook for one hour. Remove the whole spices, add the spice mix and chopped fresh coriander and blend until smooth. Cook for another 40 minutes.
Result:
Not too shaby. The tbsp of sugar stands out a mile. Don't try it. Too much bay leaf aswell. However, once the curry is made, you don't notice either of these. It actually turned out a pretty good one, although my nose was numb by this point...
I'll let you know how I get on with this base.
Cheers,
BB.
-
Bobby,
this seems a base to end all. it looks pretty good to me (not a chick pea person though).
the bay is puzzling - i would have expected the 2 sticks of celery or the cassia bark to overpower c/w with bay. presume you're not keen on anise as this for me adds a very nice complexion along with the bay and cardamom.
-
the bay is puzzling - i would have expected the 2 sticks of celery or the cassia bark to overpower c/w with bay. presume you're not keen on anise as this for me adds a very nice complexion along with the bay and cardamom.
I should have put a star anise in there now you mention it! That's one for next time. I'm not sure if I'm just a bit hyper sensitive about bay leaf atm, since I pre cooked some out of date lamb with plenty bay and smelt it and was nearly sick. When I smelt my base, I got the same nasty feeling.
Now that I've left it overnight, it doesn't actually smell too bay-leafy.
-
Curious what led you to the methi and chick peas...
What do felt it added/detracted?
Particularly the methi, its one pungent herb, in a finished curry anyway.
-- Josh
-
Curious what led you to the methi and chick peas...
What do felt it added/detracted?
Particularly the methi, its one pungent herb, in a finished curry anyway.
Well the chick peas are from one of Haldis bases from a BIR. Just thought I'd pop them in and see what happened. As far as methi goes I add quite a lot to the curry anyway and haven't really noticed much difference putting it in the base.
However, I'm just about to cook with this base now, so I'll let you know what transpires.
Cheers,
BB.
-
Just made a Lamb Bhuna with this base. Tastes just the same as always... :(
I need to start using different spice mixes. I usually use BE or KC of late. Or just throw in the towel and take up a new hobby...
Nah, that's not going to happen ;D
-
I use some celery in base too, and I put the following whole spices in which I 'fish-out' at the end:-
2 x star anise
about 10 peppercorns
some cinnamon/cassia bark (or quill if no bark available)
2 or 3 bay leaves
3 or 4 cloves
The last base I made (Saturday), I used the 'Bruce Edward's' method (although not his proportions), of putting the tomarto puree and spices in 5 mins before the end, with no subsequent cooking and skimming. I was careful to scatter the spices onto the hot oil floating on top of the base. In finished dishes there was no evidence of the spices being undercooked, and the late addition of the puree lent a 'zingy freshness' to the base. Made a good lamb madras from some of it.
I've tried many permutations in base cooking now:-
-frying garlic/ginger, OR boiling a 'blitzed' puree of the same
-boiling the tinned toms, OR frying the in a 'tarka' stage
-frying OR boiling the tom puree
-frying Or adding spices to the boiling base (into the floating oil)
-cooking for ages & skimmming after spice addition OR not
I don't know what you guys have found but none of these variations made a huge amount of difference to the finished base, which, incicdentaly, I always taste before using to make any finished dishes.
I should point out that I've always steered clear of changing more than one thing at a time.
Haldi made the comment recently that he produced a good curry using base bought from a BIR, this suggests that the base IS critical, Haldi has made bases using his BIR's method, but he says it does not taste the same, this could have a couple of causes:-
-The BIR is holding something back from him (ingredient or technique)
-For some reason, scaling down the production volume for domestic use changes it
My gut feeling is, that it is not the former reason.
-
I can't believe that a recipe cannot be scaled down. It just doesn't make any sense.
-
I can't believe that a recipe cannot be scaled down. It just doesn't make any sense.
At one time I thought that was the only thing it could be
That's why I bought my indian restaurant hob
I got slightly better results cooking the finished curries, but not enought to recommend anyone else to buy one.
Haldi made the comment recently that he produced a good curry using base bought from a BIR, this suggests that the base IS critical, Haldi has made bases using his BIR's method, but he says it does not taste the same
I try to catch all new posts on this site, I'm still searching for the 100% result.
I'm off work, this week, and have been trying to get a good base result.
I know exactly what I'm looking for
When I chatted recently, with a really good takeaway chef, he said I've got to keep practicing.
The trouble is , you have to practice a correct recipe/technique, otherwise you will never get it right.
I will be taking a sample of my latest base to show this chef.
I hope he can advise me how to improve it
But yes, the above quote from Adrian is completely true.
When I have bought a base from several takeaways, it does produce a 100% recipe.
This is only when you also use their cooking recipes & spice mix too.
Also remember that one place only adds tomato puree and chilli powder to their base to make a curry.
You really can't go far wrong with that one!
-
i agree wholeheartedly with all the comments (Adrian, Bobby & Haldi).
the chef at my local TA pretty much confirmed to me that a base is simply a method of adding water and bulk to a curry.
i too have tried the various base methods also keeping a control (changing just 1 thing at a time). i've also tried a lot of bases off the site. the resulting curry has been pretty much the same (using a std madras recipe).
i feel my gap is now only down to recipe, spice mix & base oil.
-
Adrian,
interesting whole spice spec. i use bay, cardamom, anis (4:4:1 off in 800g onion).
i'm not a fan of cloves. when i tried cassia i think i used too much - have u got it in balance with the rest and if so how much would the "some" be.
-
i feel my gap is now only down to recipe, spice mix & base oil.
I'm starting to think it's down to spice mix. I've only ever really used BE's for the vast majority of my curries. I would love to get my hands on some decent restaurant massala.
-
I would love to get my hands on some decent restaurant massala.
Try buying some, I have several times
As far as I can tell, takeaways will sell you anything they can make a profit on.
I saw some being made up the other day
They measured it by using whole bags at a time (except cummin which was half a bag)
Oddly they mix it by hand in a bowl (like a dough)
-
Haldi/Bobby,
for restaurant massala do u mean spice mix (from Secret Santa defn: 'mix powder' I mean what you call the spice mix. That is the cumin, coriander, turmeric, paprika, curry powder mix).
if so does it produce a different taste to the mix powders we have on the site and or do u have any details on the proportions (is it for example what's listed as the Haldi TA).
i'd also appreciate any thoughts on what additional spices are used with it. i know for example coriander is used separately.
-
I saw some being made up the other day
They measured it by using whole bags at a time (except cummin which was half a bag)
How is that you get to see so many BIR goings on? I never have any luck.
-
JerryM
I make enough base to produce about 12 or 13 x 450ml (roughly a pint, or just less)portions. Each produces a dish big enough to feed me and the wife (we're greedy!), in typical curry dishes like madras. For thing like Bombay spud or bhuna I would use half a 450ml portion.
The proportions are roughly this (all prepared weights):-
1.8kg onion quatered
1 or 2 carrots
2 sticks celery
half a pepper (green or red, whatevers to hand)
50g garlic
20g ginger
1 Full size tin plum tomartos
1 tbs tomarto puree
1 'mug' (about 250ml) oil
1 lev Tbs Bruce Edward's spice mix
1 lev tbs paprika
1 lev tbs turmeric
1 or 2 lev tps garam masalla (CAs I think, from this site)
2 whole star anise
10 (ish) peppercorns
3 or 4 cloves ( I don't like too much of that)
2 or 3 bay leaves, dry or fresh from the bush
1 piece cinnamon bark (about 3 or 4" x half " wide)
First I make a chicken stock by boiling a roast chicken carcass (once most of the meat has been removed), and an uncooked chicken wing or two from the freezer, in several pints of water (britta-filtred in our area), for 2 or 3 hours on a slow simmer. during the last hour or two ( so as not to boil away alll the flavour) I add the whole spices (nice aroma!).
After that as for Bruce Edward's: Filter the stock through a fine kitchen seive or muslin into a big pot. Add all the ingredients except spice mix and tom puree and simmer for an hour or so, add puree and spice cook 5 mins, stand 5 mins then cool pot by standing in sink of cold water. Blitz.
If I have time I fry the chopped carrot pepper celery and two of the onions in all of the oil until soft and slightly coloured, then add it to the liquid and the rest of the quatered onion and continue as before.
I can't say what the volume of (watery) chicken stock I add is, but you should finish up with the 12 or 13 450ml portions, I just use my pot size as a guide.
This method has evolved from what started as KDs base, using stuff I've learnt from Cr0 since I've been here. I very happy with it. the spicing is lowish, so I make up for this when I make the final dishes (eg I add 3 or 4 lev Tbs of Bruce Edward's spice mix to a madras, using 450 ml portion of base, which is proabaly reduced in volume by 1/3 during cooking).
-
Sorry forgot to mention:-
The veg (other than onion) is finely chopped.
If I've got any to hand chopped up stalks form a supermarket sized bunch of corriander goes in too.
The garlic and ginger is blitzed in some water before adding to the boiling veg.
-
wow that looks involved. i like it ! its making me tired just looking at all those steps. great effort
-
I've tried going down the chicken stock route and didn't like it. I think this base that I have made is way too complex. It must be easier than this...
-
Sorry found another howler:-
The last paragraph should say 3 or 4 Tps (not tbs) of spice mix to the madras. sorry!
-
adrian,
i too have put the chicken stock to one side - i tried CT's base and it's just not what i've been brought up on.
the rest intrigues me apart from the celery (of course! although the KC base has got me more receptive having now identified that it was cabbage that i don't like in a base).
i will try the whole spice mix. i do feel u need to add cardamom though.
your spice mix is very interesting - i await comment on my yellow v red oil post as this is a turning point for me. i like what u use but i've recently ditch for a very simple basic spice.
i too started on the KD base a long time ago (when the book was released) and again this site has been fantastic learning.
i'm not sure on your method and would appreciate what difference to mine. i put everything in the pot and simmer/boil for 2 hrs, remove whole spice, add water then simmer for at least 1 hr.
very much agree on blitz the garlic/ginger and will try out the ~1/3 proportion which i like.
i was sold on the coriander stalks until last weekend and now i'm not that sure it's crucial. yes it adds that little bit extra for sure but it does not close the gap.
-
Adrian,
following my recent salt trials and having used the BE spice mix (which i feel u need to use more of than most) i had gone for tsp.
best wishes.
-
Been using some "Traditional Kashmiri Masala (Basaar)" from King of Spice instead of the usual BE spice mix plus paprika and its superb! Just about as hot as I can stand - but then again I find a Madras level of heat to be more than enough for me. :-[ Contains paprika,tumeric,coriander,chili, garlic,cloves,ginger,black cardamums,curry leaf, fennel,cumin,fenugreek,mustard,black pepper & ground cinemon!! Be easier to list what it doesn't contain!! Anyway 2 tsp in i/2 pint BE Base plus extra Corriander 1x onion plus the usual g&g tom pure methi etc. At the end I chucked in some sainsburys chinese style chicken pieces and it was luverly
;)
-
Been using some "Traditional Kashmiri Masala (Basaar)" from King of Spice instead of the usual BE spice mix plus paprika and its superb!
I really don't rate this method. I have tried it many times with various techniques. I've just never felt that magic of the Basaar that others speak of :-\
-
Been using some "Traditional Kashmiri Masala (Basaar)" from King of Spice instead of the usual BE spice mix plus paprika and its superb!
I really don't rate this method. I have tried it many times with various techniques. I've just never felt that magic of the Basaar that others speak of :-\
Have to agree BB, I think Basaar needs to go on the myths list, I purchased a bag and it eventually found its way into the bin, not the missing ingredient for me.
-
the Traditional Kashmiri Masala (Basaar) is an interesting one for me. it's certainly not a missing ingredient.
I'll open up another post to get some views on how to use it. i've just bought a packet and have only tried it in one curry using the 2tsp (as mickdabass). i was surprised that i liked it having tasted it out the packet.
-
I tried the kashmiri basaar, the result s were Ok, but not as good as the Bruce Edward's spice mix I normally use.
I found a madras made with 'like for like' measures of basaar had a sort of 'fizzy' taste, difficult to describe, OK but not fantastic.
-
I don't know what it is in this base but having made a couple of curries now, I swear, it's got me farting like a monster ;D Absolutely rotten!!! I feel I'm getting closer to the BIR experience! ;D
-
Bobby, I'm not up on all the modern parlance, but I believe the folowing would be approprriate: ":)" and "LoL" !
Farting like a demon's always a good sign!
-
I don't know what it is in this base but having made a couple of curries now, I swear, it's got me farting like a monster ;D Absolutely rotten!!! I feel I'm getting closer to the BIR experience! ;D
The Missing 5% ;)
-
I tell you what, they've certainly got the BIR "smell"!!! ;D
-
Hi JerryM
The corry stalks: I put them in if I've got them, but don't worry too much if I have not! It's thought to be one of the flavours that 'cook-out' anyway so it's proabably not crucial at that stage. I alaways stick some in at the end of the final dish preparation 'though.
The garlic/ginger ratio I use has come about by careful experiment, it's done to my palate here of course, but I have found the ginger to be too dominant in the past. In fact I started a 'bitterness in base sauces' thread a while back only to sheepishly discover that it was too much ginger that was making by bases bitter, and nothing to do with the onion, derrr!
I take your point about cardomom, some does get in, because it's a constituant of garam masala. I don't like too much cardomom, it remains me of the flavours I got making 'Madur Jafery' style food years ago. It was all very nice but, I was really after a BIR taste. Having said that I use Cardomom in my pilau rice, but tend to stear clear of too much of it in most dishes.
Celery: others may have tried it here independantly, but I first got the idea from my wife who suggested it. Onion, carrot, garlic go into BIR, but also into mexican and mediteranian grub as well. But the later two styles often incorporate celery as well. Also celery is regularly used as a constituant of vegetable stocks. It's one of those flavours that don't seem to dominate, but seems to subtly enhance the other flavours present. I appreciate that assumptions like that don't always come-off, but I really think it works!
As for the whole chicken stock business, I am personaly CERTAIN it makes a big difference. A couple of base batches back I didn't use any, and BOY was there something missing from the currys I made as a result. I had to make a separate batch of stock, reduce it in volume by boiling done, and freezing it in ice-cube trays, so I could add it back whilst preparing each dish, without swomping the curry.
The really important thing about this stock is: 1) using home made, not nasty salty cubes, & 2) the resulting falovour is not concentrated enough to make the finsihed dishes taste noticibly of chicken. It acts a a general flavour enhancer (I keep mentioning those, don't I!); in rather the same way as it works in chinese food. The fact that I use a carcass from the previous evening's roast chicken dinner, I think prevents an 'over-the-top' level of "chickenyness".
I know it's impractical, but I still think it would be brill if we could all get together with dishes we've prepared, I think we'ed all learn so much off each other. That would probably account for the missing 5%!!
I've got to the stage were I'm pretty happy with some of by efforts, madras included. It's not quite as good as the very best I've tried 'up-north', but I believe my attempts are better than any of my local BIRs. I hope that does not sound too conceited, but maybe all my locals are crap!
-
Bobby, sorry about all this, I don't want to give the impression that I'm hijacking your thread!
-
;D
No problem atall buddy!
-
Bobby,
me too (sorry for the extra posts).
Adrian,
agree 100% on all u say except the chicken stock. i think this now must be down to regional variation. currytester is also sold on it. i'm 100% confident that chicken stock is not in the curry's i've been brought up on - only on taste having made CT's base. i've no other info. i will ask at my fav restaurant when next in the midlands though to be sure.
best wishes ps i too like the meeting up and part of my interest in the advanced cooking course.
-
How is that you get to see so many BIR goings on? I never have any luck.
I pester the life out of them!!
I keep taking samples of base and ask "what do you think of that?"
I tell them I'm not happy with it
I also spend a lot of time chatting about cooking.
Sometimes the conversation drifts onto other things.
I think they show me their cooking, because they feel unthreatened and sorry for me
All the people I have met have been really lovely people, I consider tham now as friends.
Only once have I been completely unaccepted.
That was in Helston, Cornwall.
The owner/chef was really protective against his "cooking secrets"
I don't think there is one of us, who would stop buying curries if we could do it at home.
We all know how much trouble the preparation is.
For me, it's the knowledge of "how" they do it, that's important.
It's the thrill of solving the mystery, and the satisfaction of knowing I can cook a 100% BIR meal.
No BIR chef cooks BIR at home either
Only their wives cook
-
I don't think there is one of us, who would stop buying curries if we could do it at home.
Unfortunately haldi I already have stopped buying curries and not because I make them at home. It's because, at least in my experience, they are all now third rate slop. Either that or I'm in the curry desert of the UK. I suppose I need to hope for a curry mirage that takes me back to when there was a real pleasure in eating them.
-
I don't think there is one of us, who would stop buying curries if we could do it at home.
Unfortunately haldi I already have stopped buying curries and not because I make them at home. It's because, at least in my experience, they are all now third rate slop. Either that or I'm in the curry desert of the UK. I suppose I need to hope for a curry mirage that takes me back to when there was a real pleasure in eating them.
I agree, I still buy the occasional BIR curry, but not as often now. My curry is usually better, however that has more to do with a reduction in quality of all the BIRs close to me in the last 20 years, rather than my efforts being objectively fantastic.
-
Secret Santa,
they are all now third rate slop
working on the myth's at mo and this one was eloquently timed on the pre 90's stuff.
this certainly hit's home a little for me too. i find it ever increasing the gap between the good and the rest and more and more difficult to find out the good. i think some regions are worse affected than others but have no thoughts as to why.
-
When your in South of France and have 2 BIR (STYLE) restaurants within 75km I can't be TOO choosy, hence this site is a breath of fresh air :)
-
Bod68
i bet u've not had your woolly hat on this week though ;D
best wishes and pleased the sites going well for u.
-
I noticed its been very cold back in blighty lol but its raining here atm and forecast is same for next 4 days so no better here; although its not cold...
Just deliberating what curry to do for tomorrow. Wednesday/Saturday is curry night :)
-
Hey bobby, im going to have a go at making this in the week, only ever made one other base before ( bruce's one ) i got slightly lost reading through this thread, would you say that if i stick to your orig first post this will give me a good base?
Im going to use it with the lamb bhuna here : http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1914.0 :
ut i presume that this could be used with most recipe's on here.
Thanks 8)
-
Hey Skaze, to be honest, I wouldn't make this. It's pretty good but just another of my experimental numbers. There are many better base recipes on the site. Try and find more of a finished product, than my random experimental bases.
That said, I do think this will give you a good base if you just stick to the recipe. I highly recommend CKs Lamb Bhuna. It's one of my all time favourites.
Cheers,
BB.
-
Oj fair enough mate, there are that many its quite daunting, this one seems a popular one, would you recomend this:
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1894.0
-
It's ok, but there are better. Try SnS's June base.
-
Hey, just had a look through the sns one and it looks and sounds good, the madrass looks nice to, think im going to go with making that one.
Do you use this base when making the bhuna ( http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1914.0 ) aswell.......how much difference will it make using different base's?
Thanks for you help matey. ;D
-
Do you use this base when making the bhuna ( http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1914.0 ) aswell.......how much difference will it make using different base's?
Hey Skaze, I just use whatever base I happen to have in the freezer at the time for whatever curry I'm making. As you may have noticed, the ingredients are always fairly similar for most base sauces, give or take.
The majority people on here think there is a threshold that a base has to meet, and thereafter they all produce fairly similar curries. I would go with this, but say that some do certainly work better than others. The SnS base should work really well with this Bhuna recipe. I'm sure I've tried it before.
Cheers,
BB.
-
The majority people on here think there is a threshold that a base has to meet, and thereafter they all produce fairly similar curries
Care to quantify that BB? :-\
There probably is a "threshold", but I doubt that any curry base here meets it (by a fair margin).
Having said that, I'm sure a newbie would be pretty happy with SnS's, Darthphal's, Ifindforu's or Bruce Chapman's curry base.
-
The majority people on here think there is a threshold that a base has to meet, and thereafter they all produce fairly similar curries
Care to quantify that BB? :-\
There probably is a "threshold", but I doubt that any curry base here meets it (by a fair margin).
Having said that, I'm sure a newbie would be pretty happy with SnS's, Darthphal's, Ifindforu's or Bruce Chapman's curry base.
I'm not sure to which threshold you are referring CA ... perhaps a BIR 1970's threshold?
I've been into the Saffron kitchens on a number of occasions and I can assure you that the base tastes, looks and smells no different to the ones I've produced at home ... so I guess they must meet some sort of threshold ... even if it is a BIR 2008 one!
SnS :-\ ;)
-
Care to quantify that BB? :-\
Most members on the site, from what I've heard, would say that although they can produce fairly similar curries to a BIR, still feel that they are their efforts are lacking, compared to those of a good BIR. However, using any one of the set of our more successful base recipes, most will produce curries of similarly good results.
We still have some way to go to getting it just right. Our best efforts at the base seem to plateau at a certain level, with several recipes producing very very similar end results. The result is very good, although still lacking that missing element.
We have not made much progress with this since I have become a member, with factors like economy and availability of ingredients weighing into member's judgment into the likelihood of a new ingredient's feasibility and as such many suggestions are disqualified and or written off. In the past year, I don't think that the general consensus has changed.
Having said that, I'm sure a newbie would be pretty happy with SnS's, Darthphal's, Ifindforu's or Bruce Chapman's curry base.
Assuming a new member knows one pan from the other, has the correct ingredients and a set of scales, and eats BIR fairly often, I really don't think it takes Gordon Ramsay to follow the instructions. A few attempts should iron out any obvious flaws.
I think our man has done a sterling first attempt of the Bhuna from looking at the pictures and I'm glad that he's happy with his results.
-
I'm not sure to which threshold you are referring CA ... perhaps a BIR 1970's threshold?
My point was not so much about "a threshold" existing but about the assertion that "the majority of people on here think there is a threshold". That might well be true (I can't tell, and I don't think anyone else is in a position to tell, with any certainty, either). I've only seen a few members here (out of several thousand members) make that assertion. I've also seen a few notable members that say quite the opposite. I wouldn't like to see more myths being needlessly perpetuated ;)
Nevertheless, I'm not actually fond of this "threshold" idea (as you may have gathered). To my mind there is a continuum in the quality of curry bases and resultant curries (as with any other food product), from crap to brilliant. But I have no doubt that the "secret" to producing a decent BIR curry (I don't care from which era) primarily lies with the base. You should be able to take an excellent base and, using minimal additional spicing, make an excellent bhuna (say) with the taste, smell and appearance of a decent BIR curry.
-
Most members on the site
It's really these sweeping statements that I'm taking exception to Bobby. How can you tell (from 7500 members)?
using any one of the set of our more successful base recipes, most will produce curries of similarly good results
Agreed.
We still have some way to go to getting it just right. Our best efforts at the base seem to plateau at a certain level, with several recipes producing very very similar end results. The result is very good, although still lacking that missing element
Agreed.
We have not made much progress with this since I have become a member
Agreed
with factors like economy and availability of ingredients weighing into member's judgment into the likelihood of a new ingredient's feasibility and as such many suggestions are disqualified and or written off
But cost and availability are totally legitimate and practical considerations Bobby. I don't think that necessarily means that suggestions are "disqualified" or written "written off" though. But we should, nevertheless, be pragmatic in our evaluation IMHO.
-
It's really these sweeping statements that I'm taking exception to Bobby. How can you tell (from 7500 members)?
You're right enough. That said, many of our more vocal members do go with the threshold thing, and as far as I'm concerned, it seems to hold for the recipes available to us right now. However, if a base sauce recipe were to come up that blew the rest out of the water, then it's a plateau we're struggling to break through, rather than a naturally existing threshold.
But cost and availability are totally legitimate and practical considerations Bobby. I don't think that necessarily means that suggestions are "disqualified" or written "written off" though. But we should, nevertheless, be pragmatic in our evaluation IMHO.
I quite agree that these are valid considerations, however sometimes I feel ingredients and methods are discarded off hand as impractical. However we can't get it right, and if it takes couple random ingredients and ridiculous prep times to get there, then that could well be what's happening. I agree that most BIR practices must adhere to the cheap and cheerful methods, but perhaps to get it perfect, there may be trade offs here and there. This is only a suggestion, and as with so much in blind BIR reproduction, is mere speculation.
However, as you say, until we can get it right, we must continue to explore these avenues.
-
sometimes I feel ingredients and methods are discarded off hand as impractical. However we can't get it right, and if it takes couple random ingredients and ridiculous prep times to get there, then that could well be what's happening
I don't disagree with that either Bobby.
But I think we need to be careful not to jump to conclusions that, for instance, margarine (and specifically East End margarine), is likely to be used widely in curry bases, based on one recipe (PP's Ashoka curry base recipe) and the appearance of a margarine tub in a Malik video (with no other recipes or reports ever before suggesting it's use).
The use of margarine might well be widespread, but the recipe and reports don't substantiate this assertion. I think we should be mindful of this, least we are all encouraged to go and stick a tub of Flora in our curry bases.
Hmm...margarine...widespread..I get it! :P
And Bobby, is a "Madras Maestro" a sooped up Austin Rover? ;)
-
And Bobby, is a "Madras Maestro" a sooped up Austin Rover? ;)
Hahaha, you should smell the fumes!!! ;D
-
Hahaha, you should smell the fumes!!!
hahahaha...extinguish all naked flames? ;D
I had you down as a Fart Mondeo man myself :P
-
But I think we need to be careful not to jump to conclusions that, for instance, margarine (and specifically East End margarine), is likely to be used widely in curry bases, based on one recipe (PP's Ashoka curry base recipe) and the appearance of a margarine tub in a Malik video (with no other recipes or reports ever before suggesting it's use).
It really does bother me that with all these first hand accounts, we're still not getting it quite right. There's absolutely no way that most good BIRs are all using the same secret ingredient. I'm at my wits end. I think I'm going to try and progress by attempting to buy more base sauces from takeaways, this time of a higher standard than the notabley average Eastern Pavilion. If anyone else gets the chance, give it a shot and report back.
-
Interesting reading here though as you might accept i feel inclined to defend what I witnessed on all our behalf's at The Ashoka.I suspect there is a fair bit of a difference between TAs and BIRs up and down the country but aspiring to cook the best food I can has always been my ambition so if that takes margarine and coconut block,precooked Garlic/Ginger and BunJara then so be it. Bobby I have noticed that of all the more recent enthusiasts you have yet to comment on the stuff I have posted on The Ashoka and given that you seem to be from the east of Scotland I would have thought the regional differences would be minimal. I think if you have a go with what was shared with me by an honest hard working and award winning chef you might find the basics to lift your own experimentation to new level. The Base Sauce is wonderful and the alchemy of working in the other basics he shared is well worth it and absolutely identical to what I have been searching for all these years in taste smell and texture not to mention the revealed secret about the Vegtable Pakora.
But hey I dint expect everyone to like it but its the closest I have come so now I am down to experimenting with these new tools to expand my menu. cheers Panpot
-
The Base Sauce is wonderful and the alchemy of working in the other basics he shared is well worth it and absolutely identical to what I have been searching for all these years in taste smell and texture not to mention the revealed secret about the Vegtable Pakora.
Cheers Panpot, this one's next on my list. I did try using puree rather than other forms of tomato and added coconut block, inspired by your recipe from Ashoka.
That said, I hate the Ashoka in Dundee, so I hope it's much better!
-
Cheers Bobby, I have taken a great deal of encouragement from you since I returned to the site back in late October so your comments here are appreciated.
-
Cheers Bobby, I have taken a great deal of encouragement from you since I returned to the site back in late October so your comments here are appreciated.
Cheers buddy ;D
I love what you've done with Ashoka thing, especially the pictures of the little known pastes and purees. Keep up the good work!
-
I'm not sure what all these lastest ramblings have in relation to this post.
they certainly don't seem to be getting us any better information or evidence in achieving better results in our cooking.
it matters little what anyone of use feels in terms of thresholds, myths and what ever u want to add onto the list.
what we need is factual evidence to try out at home. the proof is that each person then adopts the information and uses it repeatedly with improved results.
Panpoot is a real hero in this area having done it for us all. for the rest of us if u don't like the idea of marg then don't us - it's as simple as that.
-
I'm not sure what all these lastest ramblings have in relation to this post
"Ramblings" Jerry....or valid opinions? :-\
they certainly don't seem to be getting us any better information or evidence in achieving better results in our cooking[
And they probably aren't taking us further away, either, are they, Jerry? :-\
it matters little what anyone of use feels in terms of thresholds, myths and what ever u want to add onto the list
Why not Jerry? Is something that confirms with your opinion a valid "opinion"? And do you consider something that doesn't confirm your opinion as "rambling"? All opinions are valid aren't they? Whether you agree with them or not.
what we need is factual evidence to try out at home
Yes, Jerry..FACTUAL...not ill conceived logic! Sorry, no offence, but I get a little irritable when someone states, for instance, that a chef' spoon is "crucial" and that "margarine is probably widely used"! I think these "matter of fact" statements potentially take us further away from our goal
Panpoot is a real hero in this area having done it for us all. for the rest of us if u don't like the idea of marg then don't us - it's as simple as that
Yes, Panpot has done a sterling job and I totally agree with what you are saying
-
CA,
no offence but i can see from your onslaught that it's not even worth me replying and i'll just ignore all of your further posts.
if you're going to take offence about me saying a chef's spoon is crucial and marg is widely used it just beggars belief for me and we're clearly not on the same planet.
-
I'm not sure what all these lastest ramblings have in relation to this post.
they certainly don't seem to be getting us any better information or evidence in achieving better results in our cooking.
it matters little what anyone of use feels in terms of thresholds, myths and what ever u want to add onto the list.
It's all about the discussion Jerry! That's all we have. Recipes we're assured are genuine, experience of our more successful recipes to reply upon (sorting the wheat from the chaff), and discussion to get the best of our collective experience! Chill out buddy :) After all, it's only curry :o
-
it's only curry
How dare you say that. :P
-
Our passion for this stuff in some cases like my own could be like an obsession. Curry might not be the healthiest of foods and being almost consumed by it's seduction probably isn't healthy either. Without all the guys past and present who make this forum magical then it wouldn't be able to do it's thing and both of you are up there with the best of them for enthusiasm and more importantly commitment and experience. What about three deep breaths probably better taken away from a certain aroma. What I would love is for you to provide some inspired leadership especially for the less experienced and less adventurist members and take the gifts I was given by the Ashoka Chef and show us what is possible with the basics he uses to produce over 30 mouth watering dishes. Maybe if you did along with the other Stalwarts past and present we could aim for a full BIR menu standard. If it helped I could post a list of all the individual componants I witnessed and use it as a checklist to go back for more especially the Patia base. Remember too they use lemon dressing for something!!! Take care Panpot.
-
It's all about the discussion Jerry! That's all we have. Recipes we're assured are genuine, experience of our more successful recipes to reply upon (sorting the wheat from the chaff), and discussion to get the best of our collective experience! Chill out buddy :) After all, it's only curry :o
Bobby,
i'm very happy with what u say and see real advantage from it. it's when the discussion seems to be getting personal and u begin to feel that your posts are being unduly scrutinised to the point of obsession. u start to feel u don't won't to post anymore and that's not good for anyone.
i have some ideas going fwd as i see this a crucial aspect of the site - ie it's friendliness which i feel is under threat.
sorry to be messing up your post - not intended. i'm about to post in a new post to enable further full and meaningful discussion.
best wishes
-
it's when the discussion seems to be getting personal and u begin to feel that your posts are being unduly scrutinised to the point of obsession. u start to feel u don't won't to post anymore and that's not good for anyone.
You're absolutely right, and I too hate when that happens - it has happened to me in the past also. I hope I have never made you feel that way, as you have always been kind to me.
For me, certain (usually more arrogant) members do make me feel like they won't be done arguing with me until they've driven me into the ground in a pool of my own tears, and provided a signed confession stating that they are right. This will usually involve lots of quotes of things I've said, and their black and white interpretation of how valid they are. Certain other members however, make me feel very comfortable, with a helpful push in the right direction (CK, for example, has always given off that vibe to me). I think the latter approach is far more helpful to everyone.
-
Come on people let's at least try and get along, if we all agreed with each other we would get no where but there is no need for nastiness.