Do you also want to edit how In have presented the other recipes on the other thread?
JerryM I do hope for many of us if not all the base here gives us a new standard.
Question - when is the banjara added and how much?
Adding turmeric may well change the flavour in some way to give it a kickNo
the marg I would guess adds something to consistency
thats why we are here and why Panpot has gone to so much trouble.
don't get me wrong though some bases are better than others and do give a better tasting curry. it's the duffers that stand out in the finished dish - not the good ones.
sorry not been clear enough - what volume of base did u end up with. i am guessing 6L - is that about right.
OK, I thought the recipe as posted by Unclebuck had been edited. UB - can you change that one? The whole cumin just didn't blend well.
What makes this base stand out from the rest?
no coriander, carrot, and the addition of marg.
however this site has taught me there is no one method, to producing a good bir curry. its about finding your base and recipes which work for you.
and when they all come together in the Bhuna it was awesome.
that pot looks so clean!- simply i've been watching too much of rosemary's cooking school on itv http://www.itv.com/Lifestyle/Food/RosemaryShrager/default.html (http://www.itv.com/Lifestyle/Food/RosemaryShrager/default.html)
I think having the oil at "frying temperature" for too long was an errori've not made panpots version yet but when making the original onion paste i'd come to the conclusion to remove the oil frying step in future - the slow cook as u suggest is the way to go.
..i now think it (margarine) very likely is used widely.
the malik's base has marg in
the cumin overpowering the Base.
It almost feels like an anticlimax now that I have the secrets I was searching for although lots still to learn in how to use it all.
JerryM you might be interested to hear that the final result based on the recipe he gave me was not as watery as you might expect but neither were the finished 60 litre pot load or the one used for cooking on the hob. As for scaling down, he seemed to be instantly at ease with providing a recipe for us but I suspect that was something he was used to working with at home.
cant wait to get back for more recipes.
The Diggi Mirch was one of those secrets I suspected existed at least in this restaurant. It does seem expensive to buy it in in little boxes but he raved about its taste and natural bright red colour.
Can I ask though, what size pot are you using in the pic on the previous page? I am a bit worried my 5L pot isn't going to cope? I may have to 1/2 the recipe quantities working on a 1.5kg onion base. Will this be ok you reckon?
Ingredients:
3 kgs of chopped onions
50 gms Ground Cumin
60 gms Salt
water to cover the onions
Add 100 gms of Tomato paste
100 gms of the Garlic/Ginger paste
10-20 gms of Chili powder (to taste but he recommended 10 since more can be added when cooking)
15 gms Curry powder
20 gms Turmeric
1 block of Coconut block
250 gms Vegetable margarine (again he uses East End Brand)
250 gms of oil
Panpot, before I make this base.... Are the spice powder measurements meant to be GRS (as weighed on scales) or ML (volume).
eg 15gms Curry Power doesn't equal 1 tbl (15ml) Curry powder.
I want to double check as this is easliy confused.
Thanks.
Unless I'm also easily confused the attached conversion link shows that 15ml =15 grams so the conversion is simple- Just Scroll down a little to access the converter- Just realised that it refers to water so I may be wrong. ???
http://www.convertunits.com/from/milliliters/to/grams
Can I ask though, what size pot are you using in the pic on the previous page? I am a bit worried my 5L pot isn't going to cope? I may have to 1/2 the recipe quantities working on a 1.5kg onion base. Will this be ok you reckon?
my pan is about 4.3L. the 1/2 batch fitted in just fine. a 5L pan would be no good for the full size batch.
Panpot/Jere,
I'd appreciate knowing how much difference there is (can anyone test say curry powder as an example) - i might have to get an additional set of scales.
my scales won't measure accurately below about 40gm. so i used spoon measurement which i feel worked out fine. but i could be missing a trick.
As I posted elsewhere the sauce was thicker than I expected, you might notice that from the photos but his approach involves cooking on a slow flame and gradually adding the sauce in little portions stirring them into a dish and adding more until the final consistency is right. So there is no laddlefuls of watery base being quickly boiled off on a high heat at this BIR though have seen this in TA, because it's not required.
not like my regular
Is there a risk to people with allergies to nuts (are some people allergic to coconut?)?
CA is this one of your underlined jokes?? coconut isnt a nut... or is this me just being a fruit?? 8)
I did see somewhere that the Food and Drug Admin in the US began including coconut as a tree nut a couple of years back...
Original thread here (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3189.msg28542;topicseen#msg28542) Kindly provided by Panpot
Ingredients:
50 gms Cumin Seed
Ingredients:
50 gms Ground Cumin
Sorry to ask this question again but I'm going to try this base soon and want to confirm if it's 50 gms cumin seed or cumin powder that's used...Ta
Cumin powder is what was used in Ashoka buddy!
HTH
Del
The pictures taken by panpot in the Ashoka seem to clearly show Cumin seeds buddy!
Joshallen2k it looked like cumin powder and I assume so because he would always say cumin seed when it was used and just cumin when powder, this is one of the questions I will go back with but I would put my life on it that it was powder.
For me however, there was no congealing of the margarine
Have you tried the bhuna recipe or some other final curry with this base? Curious on your thoughts on the finished article.
All said and done, the Ashoka base (and other Ashoka ingredients) produced a very tasty curry indeed (albeit not dissimilar to those produced using other of the better bases on the forum).Maybe this is one of those curries that you need to freeze and eat a few days later.
you used the chilli paste as well
Did you use the marinated chicken and what did you think of that?
you say this isn't anything special vs otehr bases
but I notice you added extra stuff to the final dish (1tsp spice powder for example). Have you actually tried doing the original recipe?
And why add more salt to your final when you already kmow the base is very salty ?
CA awesome photo!! you got put that in the gallery :)
Who says I did? I said "add salt and sugar to taste". Seems reasonable to me 8)
You should try doing one without the powder to see if it make a significant difference for you. My view is that 1 tsp chilli powder would be a better bet to get the heat you might be looking for without completely changing the intended balance of flavours in the final
At risk of becoming pedantic on this point, why even mention adding (or potentially adding) salt ? If someone was to copy this recipe they would be more likely to add salt and completely ruin it
I suspect that it's better than you think
Have you tried these recipes yet Haldi? I'd be really interested to know what you think of them?No, not yet
And that oil is definitely unreproducable at home
Interesting comment about the oil but how does that account for those restaurants that simply use oil straight from the bottle ???A proportion (about a third) of this oil gets into your base when it's blended.
Why is the oil definitely unreproducable at home?Because some comes from a fryer that's cooked for two evenings, and some is second generation curry gravy oil (or perhaps older)
And here (due to popular request Jeera ;)) is the Ashoka Bhoona curry sauce (no chicken at this stage...to follow) made to PP's instructions.
Observations:
- nice and creamy
- pleasant to taste - my wife likes it lots
- predominant smell and taste of onions and garlic
- very garlicky
- quite salty
- coconut (in base) not really discernible to taste or smell
- cumin (in base) not really discernible to taste or smell
- lacks depth of flavour
- lingering greasiness (not so much oiliness, but greasiness) on the lips and the roof of mouth
I think you can see the margarine already beginning to congeal on the surface?
Haldi, assuming you're right, and that the "taste" is from the oil used in the base, without outright dismissing the prospect of doing this at home, what might you suggest we do to get oil that's "suitable" for base cooking?
Fry some poppadoms? Bhajis? Over how much time?
There has to be a way to do this at home.
I would have preferred to get to the full 60L recipe and for the forum to discuss the best way to scale down, rather than have the chef estimate reduced quantities.
I achieved 100% but using their oil in my base
I achieved 100% but using their oil in my base
OUR FOCUS needs to be on replicating the BIR oil (though I accept that you think it can't be replicated on a domestic scale).
I think a separate thread on replicating the BIR oil is warranted?
Hi Haldi,
So it seems that you've progressed recently Haldi? Just to clarify please:
Recently, you said you've achieved 100% BIR at home, but only when using their base.
Now you are saying that you've achieved 100% BIR at home, using your own base, but using their oil?
That's VERY interesting...if my understanding is correct?
It's a significant shift in your opinion in that it suggests that BIR curry bases CAN be scaled down and that OUR FOCUS needs to be on replicating the BIR oil (though I accept that you think it can't be replicated on a domestic scale).
I think a separate thread on replicating the BIR oil is warranted?
I would have preferred to get to the full 60L recipe and for the forum to discuss the best way to scale down, rather than have the chef estimate reduced quantities.
Yes, that would be preferable. However, we should be grateful for what we have. (not in any way implying that anyone is not)
You understand right, but the whole thing is a dead end....the oil is the secret....BUT you cant make the fryer oil at home....you will never have the volume of cooking.....you need at least litres of highly seasoned used oil...I don't believe scaling down works
What about frying spices, and/or base sauce, and/or onions, and/or garlic, and/or tomato paste etc, etc, in copious amounts of oil? It seems that the majority of people, who use reclaimed oil, take it from the curry base as a byproduct. I'm sure there must be other, more efficient, ways of producing what is, effectively, a highly spiced and flavoured oil.
If it truly is "the secret" to producing a replica BIR curry, then surely it's worth pursuing with vigour!
if a couple of bangledshis decide to open a BIR takeaway or restaurant what do they use as spiced oil !!!! do they sit there for weeks frying bahjis ?????????
SO !!!!!
its the chicken and the egg
if a couple of bangledshis decide to open a BIR takeaway or restaurant what do they use as spiced oil !!!! do they sit there for weeks frying bahjis ?????????
It wasn't you was it Bobby?
Anyone remember?
I don't agree with haldi that the spiced oil so produced will give the 100% BIR flavour, but I do agree with him that it is a vital part of the old style BIR flavour.Maybe you are right but please try this
Thanks for this topic and again can I say the curry base is superb!!
Madras: on high heat i cooked 1tbs garlic in banjura oil until lightly brown, added 1tbs ginger garlic paste and cooked for about 30 secs. Then added 1tsp methi, 1/2 tbs salt, 1/2tsp chilli powder, 1tbs of my spice mix, 4tbs tomato puree mixed with equal parts water and 2 quarters of fresh tomato. Then i added the marinated raw chicken. Next i added about 4tbs banjura and started adding base after about 30 secs. I didnt use much base (2 chef's spoons maybe) and added a bit of water as i had cooked my base down thicker than normal. I added juice from half a lemon and a bit of fresh coriander after the first bit of base and 1 tsp MSG near the end.
The result was just like my favourite madras from the light of bengal in winchester. Melt in the mouth consistency with a strong savory spicyness that was delayed by a second. Just how i wanted. I had thought that carrot might be used to get that 'melt in the mouth mellowness' for some reason but have now realized that a base like combined with banjura achieves this result.
Korma: I used the fatima restaurant technique. On high heat i cooked the marinated chicken in banjura oil for about 30 secs, then added about 4 tbs banjura and 1/2 tsp salt. I then added a chef's spoon of caster sugar, 2 of coconut powder and then the base (cant remember how much, maybe 2 chef's spoons) and a bit of water as my base was quite thick. I added a chef's spoon of single cream and cooked for a few mins on medium heat until ready. I added 1tsp MSG & 1tbs ground almonds but am not sure how much these help.
The result was perfect. I have found korma to be the easiest dish to replicate but the taste of this base and the banjura did helped. I do not think this base is too strong for a korma.
Question though - how big is your chef's spoon? 4 Tbsp? I ask because there is no such thing as a chef's spoon where I am.Yes the chef's spoon's about 4tbs. There's no need to measure the base exactly though, just use as necessary in the final curry to get the consistency you want.
Nonetheless, I am highly intrigued and will try these... MSG as well... wow. Curious too about your spice mix - 1/2 a tsp of chilli is nowhere near enough for a Madras.
-- Josh
MSG has been used in 2/3 of the BIRs that i've been in which is why i use it. Well, and the fact i cook chinese as well!
Hi Chinois,Haldi, it's added at/near the end. Maybe a minute before serving. I guess just to give it time to be stirred in. I haven't heard of it being used in the earlier stages.
I have heard people say that BIR's use msg but never come across it at any of the places I've been in.
At what stage are they adding it?
I've tried using msg with the spices but could tell no difference
If BIR's are buying it, then it must do something
Thanks for this topic and again can I say the curry base is superb!!
Ok, I haven't tried it yet so I am basically talking out my backside here, but why in the name of god is this any better than any other base? It has bog standard ingredients and I don't believe for a minute that the margarine is the 'secret' ingredient, or would make it in any way a 'better' base.
Hi BB,
I was probably going to post the same sort of results as you but I discovered something by accident and have posted it in the lets talk curry thread. I added the onion stuff into the base while preheating it, made a big difference to the finished curry, if you have any left you should give it a go.
Hi BB,Sounds good. I increased the quantity of the banjura in the finished curry and fried it with the other ingredients before adding the base which worked very well.
I was probably going to post the same sort of results as you but I discovered something by accident and have posted it in the lets talk curry thread. I added the onion stuff into the base while preheating it, made a big difference to the finished curry, if you have any left you should give it a go.
Hey SS, this base is REALLY, REALLY tasty!
The fact that they don't do a madras though, sort of makes me think this is anything but a run of the mill high street BIR.
Just came across this gem from the Ashoka West End a la carte menu, I must have a go at it - one for us jocks methinks?
Haggis Pakora ?4.50
The Scottish delicacy, deep fried with spices and gram flour
I do worry that they could end becoming the Woolworth's of the curry trade, though.
No I don't mean bankrupt, what I mean is becoming too big an organisation, and the quality of the product drops as a result of upscaling and generalist.
I do worry that they could end becoming the Woolworth's of the curry trade, though.
You mean bankrupt??
The bhuna was brilliant and i did a madras and a korma which were just as good.
Knighty76,Curry King is right its the Bunjarra that is overly salty and on the other thread I have pointed out how I compensated for it using plum tomatoes and sugar which really worked until we get the correction from the Chef
Why not simply reduce the salt in the onion paste PP? I reduced it to 1 tsp (i.e. two thirds of the specified amount) and it didn't seem too salty then to me
Yes i did try for quite a while but i didnt seem to be able to upload them. I resized them so they were small (150kb) and the scale was correct (700 x 525) but i kept getting error. What else do i have to do? I read your walk-through and everything seems correct. The files are JPG. CheersThe bhuna was brilliant and i did a madras and a korma which were just as good.
Hi Chinois,
I notice you've posted pics of your Ashoka curries on "another site"...any chance of posting them here too please?
Why not simply reduce the salt in the onion paste PP? I reduced it to 1 tsp (i.e. two thirds of the specified amount) and it didn't seem too salty then to me
What's wrong with leaving the salt out of both the base and paste and then season the finished dish to taste?The basic answer is that things seasoned during cooking taste better. You'll notice this the more you cook.
Hi chinois
The rule of thumb guideline amount of salt in soups and sauces is generally reckoned to be about 1 tsp per quart/liter. Therefore it follows the total amount for the Ashoka base should be 6 tsp or about 18 grams tops not the 60 grams given. Yes I agree food should be seasoned during cooking but the amounts given here are obviously way out so it is easier just to omit the salt and season the finished article to taste, after all you can't take the stuff out once its in.
Yes I agree food should be seasoned during cooking but the amounts given here are obviously way out so it is easier just to omit the salt and season the finished article to taste, after all you can't take the stuff out once its in.
Hi chinoisYes you obviously shouldnt oversalt as you cant take it away afterwards. The wife's tale about adding a potato to 'soak up the excess' just seems like wishful thinking.
The rule of thumb guideline amount of salt in soups and sauces is generally reckoned to be about 1 tsp per quart/liter. Therefore it follows the total amount for the Ashoka base should be 6 tsp or about 18 grams tops not the 60 grams given. Yes I agree food should be seasoned during cooking but the amounts given here are obviously way out so it is easier just to omit the salt and season the finished article to taste, after all you can't take the stuff out once its in.
I have been following this thread but I have somehow missed where he mentions which Curry Powder to use.....Is it mentioned here or elsewhere? Thanks.
I have a quick question... I can get "Cream of Coconut" here (Goya brand). Would that be the same thing as Coconut Block?
Thanks!
I can get "Cream of Coconut" here (Goya brand). Would that be the same thing as Coconut Block?
I have close approximation of this simmering now, and it smells lovely. I wasn't able to find coconut block, so I left it out and just replaced some of the vegetable margarine with virgin coconut oil.
I made the ginger/garlic paste earlier. That's a great recipe! I spend a fortune on Swad brand ginger/garlic paste, and this is much better. I'm going to try the Onion paste tomorrow (I know I will love that- I love caramelized onions).
Chowie - did you cut the salt in half? If not, you need to be sure to add no salt in the curry.
I personally think its a positive add. A lot of the missing BIR taste seems to center around a slight sweetness and depth of flavor. Don't go more than a tablespoon though in the final curry, as it becomes negatively noticeable after that.
-- Josh
I don't have crispy bits but there not soft either,
I also think it could be really versatile by using different spices blends.
60 gms Salt? Wow! This is heavy on sodium How many finished curry portions does this recipe make? 6 gms/tsp = 10 tsp x 2300mg for a total (not including the margarine) of 23,000 mg of sodium.
I blitz the onion paste, in a mini blender, then freeze it in an ice cube tray (tablespoon and teaspoon sized portions) and then transfer them to a sealable sandwich bag for freezing and storing until required. Then it's a simple matter of defrosting (one lump or two) when you add it to a final curry.
I also do the same (ice cube tray and sealable bags) for ginger and garlic made from blended fresh (blended with water or oil).
how do you rate the taste/strength over fresh? I am reluctant to try it as the ginger/garlic paste and the onion paste lasted 2 weeks in the fridge when i made them.
60 gms Salt? Wow! This is heavy on sodium How many finished curry portions does this recipe make? 6 gms/tsp = 10 tsp x 2300mg for a total (not including the margarine) of 23,000 mg of sodium.
have you read all the posts??
I was channel hopping last night, as you do when tv is crap and what do I see...the ashoka group selling foil packets of curry on one of the shopping channels... whatever next ?
I have the other sauces now from The Ashoka together with few recipes that I will post in due course.
cheers Panpot
3 kgs of chopped onions
50 gms Cumin Powder
60 gms Salt
water to cover the onions
Add 100 gms of Tomato paste
100 gms of the Garlic/Ginger paste
10-20 gms of Chili powder (to taste but he recommended 10 since more can be added when cooking)
15 gms Curry powder
20 gms Turmeric
1 block of Coconut block
250 gms Vegetable margarine (again he uses East End Brand)
250 gms of oil
thanks Jerry & SS
I've frozen everything I made but I definitely think it's a bit wrong
No way could you make a happy Korma with this base
The Korma recipe only requires uht and main ingredients added
It would be way too hot
My current favourite base is still the revised Glasgow recipes by Big Boaby
It's funny though, that despite some threads being very popular and long, not many people actually try the recipes
I guess there are just too many, and you run out of cooking time
I bet there are loads I've not done
I never tried Ifind4u's recipes although, I still want to
I'm going to revisit the curry crunch recipes next
I only tried them a few times and that must be about four years ago!
I seem to remember that they had a very good aroma
At least, that's what my notes say
No way could you make a happy Korma with this base
i've now tasted 2 BIR bases and both were very different