Curry Recipes Online

Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: Bobby Bhuna on November 10, 2009, 09:26 PM

Title: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: Bobby Bhuna on November 10, 2009, 09:26 PM
Hey Guys

I tried the Ashoka base, Bunjara, garlic ginger paste etc. a long time ago, and photographed my attempts when the topic was new. I'm afraid to say that none of the results were even close to my favourites. I found the base lacking and the margarine,   well, just like adding a knob of marge to one of finished curries. Nasty.

I had high hopes for the Bunjara paste but it just tastes like a salty, oily, cinnamony paste that added nothing but a cinnamon flavour to my curry (along with oil and salt if I recall), which I could have done with the addition of cinnamon. The Ashoka recipes add too much salt, margarine and oil to the dish. I get far closer BIR results with the recipes I rate more highly on this site.

I've been to 2 Ashokas, one in Dundee, one in Glasgow. They were both rubbish.

What's all the hype about the Ashoka recipes? I think they are poor. What do you think?

Cheers

BB.
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: joshallen2k on November 11, 2009, 12:50 AM
I too had high hopes for the Ashoka recipes. Panpot did a great job of documenting them, and with so many unique composite parts (base, bunjarra, g/g paste, meat marination...) I eagerly made each of these to spec.

Perhaps the problem was matching the Ashoka base to non-Ashoka tried and tested final curry recipes (SnS Madras, BE Madras, CK Bhuna...) Unfortunately I never tried any of the Ashoka finished curries, as none of them were exactly my faves, and some I had never even heard of in a BIR.

My take (after many curries - that base yields a lot) was that the Ashoka curries I made (admittedly not Panpots final curries) were way too garlicky, and had a funny undertone I can't describe right now.

I personally thought the bunjarra had some merit. Maybe not in its Ashoka form, but some form of caramelized onion add-in I could see possibly bridging the 5% gap. I know some BIR videos I've seen have included some sort of paste that fits the bunjarra description.

Looking at the latest batch of recipes - a few unheard-of curries, and a dubious Rogan Josh... I am going to pass on all of these, and almost certainly won't make the base again. Unless I see some credible testimonials from members.

--- Josh

Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: JerryM on November 11, 2009, 07:27 AM
It's good to get views both ways on any topic so that learning can be had.

I find the complete opposite to Josh & Bobby. everthing i've posted is as it is now for me on the Ashoka front. i use it's recipes & pastes all the time. the karahi bhuna is a real fav. the marg was a key piece of the jigsaw for me.

Quite clearly Josh & Bobby know there stuff and are not wrong.

It's also good not to over promise and under deliver.


Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: CurryOnRegardless on November 11, 2009, 11:39 AM
BB and Joshs' experiences roughly reflect mine but I've had some success with the bunjarra, the only problem with it being the time it takes to make the stuff and it's so easy to burn it as well, not good.
There are lots of jars of onion chutneys/relishes in the shops which seem to do the job just as well, try Baxters and add a pinch of cinnamon and deggi mirch (if Delia can cheat, so can we!).

Regards
CoR.
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: Panpot on November 11, 2009, 02:22 PM
Bobby As you might expect I am disappointed for you that you have not found the Ashoka recipes to be of any use to you. I do however feel that your description of The Ashoka restaurants being rubbish is exactly that rubbish.

I don't know about the one in Dundee and if its part of the West Of Scotland chain but whether or not you like the food and other aspects of the chain, they are a big part of the Glasgow restaurant scene and have been for many many years. They have won awards and have published a book of recipes and do a lot for charity and play a significant role in the lives of thousands of Glaswegians lives who like us all here love curry.

Having started a new thread on the subject is unfortunate too given your really negative stance since so many contributed positively on the original threads and gave as you would expect balance to the debate.

I have found the degree of negativity towards the information I got from my visit really challenging and as I have explained on another thread now closed down the passion for our subject is encouraging but the way that folks discount regional variations is most disappointing.

I don't really understand why you felt the need to use the language you did to so forcefully dismiss what I feel has added real value to the entertainment and learning from the site.

If the actual recipes straight from the kitchens and from a top nationally recognised Chef can be so easily rubbished this way God help any of the welcomed new guys from daring to contribute and heaven help them if they share insights to BIRs and TAs from their locality and not from somewhere nereby the reader.

When I think of the time I have had to find to post the stuff I did and to be just dismissed in this fashion it leaves me wondering why I bother.

I find comments from elsewhere that doubt the authenticity of what I have posted  outrageous and the suggestion that they are made up just ridiculous too. I am sorry if I have dumped on you here but your negative post has taken the real fun out of being part of this wonderful site. "P"off PP
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: Cory Ander on November 11, 2009, 02:47 PM
I have found the degree of negativity towards the information I got from my visit really challenging...When I think of the time I have had to find to post the stuff I did and to be just dismissed in this fashion it leaves me wondering why I bother

I think any perceived negativity is FAR outweighed by all the positive comments PP...so please don't take it too harshly!  :P

I'm sure everyone greatly appreciates all your effort in getting and posting all of these Ashoka recipes  8)

I know that I thoroughly enjoyed the curries I made from the Ashoka base (and recipes), as I'm sure many members have.
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: Panpot on November 11, 2009, 03:03 PM
Cheers CA, I absolutely know that this is the case but I still feel we could do with being a bit more careful in how we post especially we should think of the effect on the newcomers and be a more aware of regional variations as I have outlined in more detail in the closed down thread.
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: Cory Ander on November 11, 2009, 03:12 PM
You're welcome PP.

Just to explain, the reason I locked the recent "Additional Ashoka Recipes" thread is that the recipes have now been moved to the recipe sections and I believe it to be more desirable that discussion on the recipes continues there, rather than in one, very long, compilation thread.
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: currymonster on November 11, 2009, 04:19 PM
Panpot,

I don't post very often but lurk almost constantly and I justed wanted to say that I for one greatly appreciate the effort you have put into getting these recipes and have really enjoyed them, the base is still one of my favourites and I like what the Bunjarra brings to the table.

Keep up the good work :)

CM
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: Panpot on November 11, 2009, 04:55 PM
Cheers CM nice to read your post too PP
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: Bobby Bhuna on November 11, 2009, 07:38 PM
Hi Panpot,

I'm really sorry that my post came across that way. I do really appreciate all your time and effort and should have undoubtedly been more tactful. Please don't let my negativity detract from your enjoyment of the forum. Reading Jerry and CA's responses (experienced members that have posted recipes that I enjoy) it looks likely that my attempt at the base / recipe was lacking. I do recall not getting East End marge and settling for a "spread", since nothing in Tesco actually said "margarine". I also used cumin seed rather than powder due to a mistake in the recipe which was later corrected.

Having read the feedback to my post, it is obvious that many people do thoroughly enjoy and have learned a great deal from your Ashoka experiences. Keep up the good work and I will try to get a change to revisit the Ashoka recipes, hopefully gaining superior results by sticking to the recipe religiously.

Once again, I'm sorry for coming across with such negativity.

Cheers

BB :)

FYI, The Ashokas I visit were the Ashoka Shak Dundee and the Ashoka Shak Coatbridge.
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: Cory Ander on November 12, 2009, 12:26 AM
Hi Bobby,

I do agree that the margarine and coconut (particularly in the specified quantities) imparts a particular and somewhat "different" flavour and texture to the base.  Not to everyone's taste, I'm sure.

It is also quite garlicky (which I think is what I probably enjoyed about it).

The onion paste also delivers a lovely aroma (though I'm not sure it adds much to the taste of the final curry) and is probably worth pursuing.

Unfortunately, I haven't tried the Ashoka base with any of PP's main dish Ashoka recipes.  They are quite different (to me) and I have a bit of difficulty getting my head around them (being of the old Bangladeshi BIR brigade!)  :P
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: Secret Santa on November 12, 2009, 08:52 AM
I've already said that I appreciate Panpot's efforts on this so I won't repeat it again...oh wait I just did!

However, there's regional variation and there's just plain wrong, and the Ashoka stuff is just plain wrong.

It's BIR style, no question about that but, for example, a Rogon Josh with high (or any) amounts of coconut, nuts, and cream is in no way a Rogon Josh, it's way way off the mark.

I'll stick to more traditional bases, the likes of CA's and Bruce Edward's, which produce curries that come close to about 99% of BIRs in the UK...i.e. those that aren't part of the Ashoka chain.

It seems that they have deliberately gone all out to completely redefine each dish by ignoring any basis on which the BIR dishes are founded, i.e. the original 'authentic' pakistani/indian/bangladeshi recipes.

Not my cup of chai at all!

What a shoka!

P.S. Panpot, I think you need to separate out criticism of you, and I don't think there has really been any, and criticism of the Ashoka method, for which there has been plenty!
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: Secret Santa on November 12, 2009, 09:19 AM
There are lots of jars of onion chutneys/relishes in the shops which seem to do the job just as well, try Baxters...

I looked for one but can only find 'cranberry and caramelised onion'! Not exactly BIR, but would add a seasonal touch to the curries.   :D
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: Cory Ander on November 12, 2009, 09:40 AM
However, there's regional variation and there's just plain wrong, and the Ashoka stuff is just plain wrong.

I'm not sure it's "wrong" SS, but it certainly is different.
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: Panpot on November 12, 2009, 11:44 AM
Cheers SS I take on board much of what you are saying however I will inevitably wish to defend The Ashoka here since they gave me the gift of getting backstage but more importantly The Award winning Chef gave me permission to post my findings on our site and later gave me the actual Handbook which I have shared also from.

I also need to point out that The Ashoka recipes by and large mirror regional tastes and much of the menus in the West of Scotland though there is within the chain Indian regional variation in the menu too.

As you will imagine there are hundreds of BIRs in Glasgow almost one in every street which is why it has on more than one occasion been dubbed the Curry Capital of the UK. The smell taste and texture of many of the meals I posted are right up there with the city's BIR experience and so it isn't accurate to think The Ashoka is on its own. As ever I believe that unless folks travel they are unable to really understand the extent to which regional differences vary. Hope this helps. PP
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: Derek Dansak on November 12, 2009, 06:18 PM
I accept your point about regional differences is probably correct. however it still shocks me that there is a certain bir taste, i have experienced up and down the country, that is totally missing from any curry from this site. the particular taste seems more common in bengal curry houses, than other types of bir. i believe the base they use, is quite a different beast to eg the safron base. in fact i would even argue that the safron base is very poor at producing a very good madras. although it seems ideal for most other curries.  Back to the threads topic, i would say the ashoka bhuna is a model bir bhuna, and is the real deal. so i would disagree that ashoka kit is wrong in any way, just a different style of base , and spicing technique. 
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: JerryM on November 12, 2009, 06:58 PM
i find i'm real picky about this curry stuff. it has to be Bangladeshi for me too.

i think it's Pakistani "Indian" that i don't like.

it's real clear cut as well - i instantly know when i taste the food.

of course Birmingham Indian Restaurant's or BIR's as we call them have now travelled a good way. but in travelling the dishes have changed a little. however in the main they are still BIR. i don't know what defines it for me.

it was interesting on this weeks F Word programme with a BIR competing with a Bangladeshi from south. it was a real surprise for me that i backed the south lot based on the recipe ingredients yet the brummie's won.

the other thing for me is this cooking malarkey is an art not a science.

anyhow in short it's how the food tastes that's important.
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: Bobby Bhuna on November 12, 2009, 08:56 PM
Hey guys

Well I'm happy to report that Panpot and I are back on good curry making terms. It turns out that chain that I visited was in fact not Ashoka but Ashoka Shak, an offshoot of the BIR chain designed to offer quick mainstream fast food style food in Cinema complexes etc. that do not offer the same level of quality as the finer restaurants that are part of the main Ashoka group, which is comprised of higher quality restaurants.

Cheers

BB
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: Curry on up the Kyber on November 13, 2009, 12:23 AM
Can I add my tuppence worth.

I have eaten at the best Ashoka restaurants for a number of years.  The Ashoka chain has made award winning curries.

I have practised and perfected Panpots recipes which are spot on. 

If they dont work for you either you are getting the recipe wrong or the regional difference is bigger than you imagine.

In Glasgow, a Rogan Josh does have coconut, cream and an almond taste to it.

Im not trying to pick sides or upset anyone.  This is just my opinion.

PS Panpot could you post a recipe for a South Indian Garlic Chicken?  Is the version you posted the complete one? 

PPS Thanks to everyone on here for their effort, my curry skills have increased tenfold. ;D
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: joshallen2k on November 13, 2009, 12:50 AM
Panpot - could you enlighten us as to the content's of the chef's handbook?

By all local accounts (and Bobby's self-correction) the Ashoka is a very good restaurant. Part of my challenge is that I'm just not familiar with most of the curries you've posted, and there seem to be some regional differences in play as well (the Rogan and CTM seem to be different than what I recall in the London, Norfolk, and Sussex areas I lived).

In this handbook is there a Madras or Vindaloo?

Thx,
Josh
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: CurryOnRegardless on November 13, 2009, 12:23 PM


I looked for one but can only find 'cranberry and caramelised onion'! Not exactly BIR, but would add a seasonal touch to the curries.   :D

Indeed it would, lol, by chance I was in M&S yesterday checking out their Xmas fayre and they have a caremelised red onion chutney on BOGOF and very nice it is too, had a dollop (tech term) in last nights' lamb rogan josh, worked a treat.
Even if you don't like it in curry you get two jars of posh Marks' chutney for 80p each to have with your cheese crackers or, get this, the worlds' best toasty, red onion chutney, black pudding and (hot) English mustard.

Cheers
CoR
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: Secret Santa on November 13, 2009, 08:36 PM
It turns out that chain that I visited was in fact not Ashoka but Ashoka Shak

Yes I think I remember them, didn't they set up in some motorway services as well? Are they still going?
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: Secret Santa on November 13, 2009, 08:41 PM
In Glasgow, a Rogan Josh does have coconut, cream and an almond taste to it.

Why don't they go the whole hog then and bung a couple of deep-fried, battered, mars bars in there too, just to add to the Scottish authenticity of the dish!   ;D
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: Panpot on November 14, 2009, 11:31 AM
Guys I am pleased that BB got in touch and we have kissed and made up. The Handbook I was given was for my eyes only and I really cant betray the trust I was afforded any further. I do hope you all understand. My own reputation and Integrity would be called into question and I really cant risk that. I am genuinely grateful to the Guys at The Ashoka who made my visit so special especially the owner who met me and gave me his trust.

The recent posts are as they are printed in the Handbook so I am as lost as the rest of us in how we scale it down. I too am looking for somebody here to crack it for us.

Apart from the actual cooking method, the heat of the burners and experience there is nothing missing here to reproduce an authentic Glasgow BIR range of dishes.

I am particularly pleased that the Glaswegians are finding the match to their satisfaction and really chuffed that SS rates the Bhuna. PP
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: Bobby Bhuna on November 14, 2009, 11:16 PM
Guys I am pleased that BB got in touch and we have kissed and made up.

Just to let you all know about the kiss, it was long, passionate and full of promise. :-*

 8) BB
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: Cory Ander on November 15, 2009, 12:25 AM
I's the "got in touch" bit that bothers me more BB!  ;)
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: CurryOnRegardless on November 15, 2009, 08:25 AM
Is this a Glasgow kiss we're talking about here??
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: Mikka1 on November 15, 2009, 12:06 PM
LOL!  ;D

Is this a Glasgow kiss we're talking about here??
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: Domi on November 15, 2009, 02:00 PM
Panpot - could you enlighten us as to the content's of the chef's handbook?

In this handbook is there a Madras or Vindaloo?

Thx,
Josh

The Handbook I was given was for my eyes only and I really cant betray the trust I was afforded any further.

The recent posts are as they are printed in the Handbook

Surely the betrayal of trust is in giving out the recipes as printed? (Not that I'm complaining at all!) surely any additional info you may give out would be secondary "betrayal-wise" to posting the actual recipes?

Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: Panpot on November 15, 2009, 03:57 PM
I got permission to post a few and I feel I have now reached the limit of what is reasonable. There are no recipes in the document for Madras and Vindaloo. There are a few pages missing and as you might expect I didn't want to come accross as ungrateful in asking for more when I was given so much. PP
Title: Re: Ashoka Recipes
Post by: Mikka1 on November 16, 2009, 03:06 PM
Hey PP.
No worries on my account at all. I'm really grateful for you taking the time to even write them out for us all mate. Kudos.  ;D

Actually Rogan Josh is about my third fav meal behind Chicken Sagwalla and Vindaloo. I'll be trying that recipe when I can work out how to reduce the numbers and quantities.

Very best regards and thanks again PP.  ;D

I got permission to post a few and I feel I have now reached the limit of what is reasonable. There are no recipes in the document for Madras and Vindaloo. There are a few pages missing and as you might expect I didn't want to come accross as ungrateful in asking for more when I was given so much. PP