Curry Recipes Online
Beginners Guide => Hints, Tips, Methods and so on.. => Cooking Methods => Topic started by: Curry United on December 02, 2009, 11:39 AM
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you have probably heard this question a million times!! lol
i have tried boiling the chicken, marinating, cooking on high heat and simmering for anything up to an hour or so.
but the chicken never seems a soft as a i get in BIRs.
if there anything i am missing? :)
thanks
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you have probably heard this question a million times!! lol
i have tried boiling the chicken, marinating, cooking on high heat and simmering for anything up to an hour or so.
but the chicken never seems a soft as a i get in BIRs.
if there anything i am missing? :)
thanks
One thing you can try is keeping the chunks really large, as they tend to shrivel up and dry a little if too small when cooking :)
Also don't overcook the chicken, remember it still cooks for a while longer when removed from the heat, so if it is just a little pinkish when removed it will still continue cooking.
Also leaving Chicken in lemon juice for around 15 minutes will tenderise it as well.
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I find this tricky too. I've tried pre-cooking but lately I've just been adding raw chicken breast to the hot curry sauce and letting simmer for about 12-15 minutes and although not BIR (too slow for a TA) it still tastes ok this way.
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Forgive me once agin but the precooked chicken recipe form The Ashoka is perfect. PP
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Thanks for the reminder PP I'll get around to the Ashoka pre-cooked recipe one day!
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I have to say that precooking chicken (to make it "soft") is something I really can't relate to (if you chose to use chicken breasts, anyway).
I think that precooking chicken, using chicken breasts (though BIRs probably don't use chicken breast), is unnecessary and saves very little time in the cooking process.
Frying it, and then cooking it with the curry, for 5 - 10 mins, or so, seems to result in a pretty acceptable "softness" to me ("flavour", however, might be a different question!).
The same is not true of other meats (e.g. lamb and beef) where a long, slow, cook is desirable to soften the meat (for the cheaper cuts anyway).
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CA,
Do you fry the chicken then add it to your base?
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Pre-frying the chicken just enough to seal in the juices is a known cooking technique but you would want to fry just enough to seal it.
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Pre-frying the chicken just enough to seal in the juices is a known cooking technique but you would want to fry just enough to seal it.
I agree. The same is true of other meats (e.g. lamb and beef) but, with these, I personally would, thereafter, slow cook them to make them "soft".
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Do you fry the chicken then add it to your base?
No, with chicken breast, I might marinate it first, then fry it (only enough to "seal" it) at the beginning of cooking a curry, then add the remaining ingredients (including the base) and cook it until done throughout (i.e. about 5 - 10 mins for 1 inch cubes of chicken breast)
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and what do you marinate it in??.....
i am going to try this tonight!
Many Thanks
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Hi Harbut,
Why not try the Panpot Ashoka chicken marinade:
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3916.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3916.0)
You might want to reduce the amounts as this is for 1 kilogram of chicken.
If you do, let us know how tender/tasty it turns out.
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Panpots method works very well indeed. I was asked in fact why the chicken was so soft? You just have to make sure it is very well coated and allow it to marinate for a time.
Nice one PP. ;D
Forgive me once agin but the precooked chicken recipe form The Ashoka is perfect. PP
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I hope this might be a good answer.
Other than trying to get BIR curries in my home kitchen , I strive to get Chinese takeaway tastes too.
You know that silky soft taste they get into the meats in Chop Suey , Chow Mein and Fried Rice dishes etc.
Well, I tried those tecniques for meats I use in BIR's too and it works for me.
Tenderising the meat
To tenderise chicken or dark meat you marinate it overnight in water with some bi-carb in it. For a 2 person / portions curry I put the chicken in a small dish and just cover it with cold water. Then I sprinkle 2 teaspoons of bi-carb into the water and swish it around a little. Store overnight in the fridge with a lid or plate ontop. When you want to use it , throw the water/mix away ( it will likely be a bit bloody ) and rinse the meat under the running cold tap just for a few seconds then cook as normal. The result is extremely pleasing.
VELVETING the Meat
To get that silky feel ( some might call it slightly slimey ) then you can use the chicken or meat "as-is raw" or first as described above , then procede as follows :
For 2 ~ 3 portions
1 egg white
1 tablespoon of cornflour
1/4 teaspoon of salt
Mix all ingredients to a paste in a bowl. Do not overmix as the egg white will froth. Place meat into bowl and turn it to cover with the paste. Keep the mixing gentle and just enough to coat everything. Cover the bowl with a lid or a plate and leave at room teperature for 30 ~ 45 minutes , thats all.
Now , to prep the meat.
Heat up a a wok or pan ( wok is best as it saves oil ) enough cooking oil to cover the meat. You can use water instead but I think the results are better with oil.
We are NOT going to cook the meat we are just going to heat it a little so keep the heat down. Drop the meat into the oil in slow amounts ( if the meat appears to sizzle or 'fry' the oil is too hot ) . For chicken we are looking to heat it for 30 seconds to a minute thats all . The chicken surface will turn white and at that point you should remove it from the oil and place it to one side. Same for dark meats , they will turn a much lighter creamy colour. Do this heat treatment of the meat in small batches. each time only for 30 seconds to a minute should see the required result. Remember , this process takes only 30 seconds or so , so you should be able to guage the oil / water temperature and adjust accordingly.Once you have all the meat prepaired this way and set to one side, let it cool. NOT in a fridge , just at room temperature.
After it's cooled procede to use it as you would normally.
Good luck and dont forget to post back regarding any trials you do.
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I have to say that precooking chicken (to make it "soft") is something I really can't relate to (if you chose to use chicken breasts, anyway).
I think that precooking chicken, using chicken breasts (though BIRs probably don't use chicken breast), is unnecessary and saves very little time in the cooking process.
Frying it, and then cooking it with the curry, for 5 - 10 mins, or so, seems to result in a pretty acceptable "softness" to me ("flavour", however, might be a different question!).
The same is not true of other meats (e.g. lamb and beef) where a long, slow, cook is desirable to soften the meat (for the cheaper cuts anyway).
CA...........
Where are you coming from here? Maybe where you are they might not use Chicken Breast, but here in England, they certainly use Chicken breast.......
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and what do you marinate it in??.....
i am going to try this tonight!
Many Thanks
Harbut, It really doesn't matter what you marinate it in, whether its someone elses marinade that is forced upon you or whether it is just a simple lemon and yoghurt mixture with some simple spices, like cumin, coriander and Paprika.
The fact is that Chicken will almost marinade and soften in anything like any other meat if given the time.... and time is the factor here. I usually marinade Chicken Tikka for at least 24 hours, the chicken comes out really tender and the flavours are awesome......
However, when it comes to cooking, It needs to be cooked to a slightly pinkish colour and then left on a plate to rest, just like when your mum did Roast beef. The tendens and fibres in the meat will relax if left for about 10-15 minutes making the meat much softer.....
I just haven't figured out what to do with lamb leg steaks yet, probably in future marinade for 24 hours then a choice of grill or just seal and then pop into the curry itself. I really don't believe that cooking lamb leg steaks for 2 or 3 hours on a slow cook will soften them into something I want, I think they will be tough. Maybe other cuts of meat yes......
I guess we could all do with a professional Butchers input here on how to cook different cuts and types of meat/poultry/game for the best results whether we marinade or not...... :)
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For lamb, there is a good precooking method that I've used a bunch of times. I think it was CK's method - its on the site under precook methods. It entails a long simmer, but the result is truly fork-tender lamb just like the BIRs.
For chicken, I too don't get it nearly as soft as the BIRs (all of which I remember used breast exclusively) I really do wonder how in fact they do it. They definitely precook.
I've probably tried many methods from this site. The only non-tikka marinade I've used was the Ashoka as Panpot suggests. Personally I found it too strong on the garlic, but that may just be the fact that I used it with the Ashoka base in the final curry, which is also garlic-heavy. A marinade of some sort may be the way to go, but to truly replicate BIR, a precook would also be required.
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they certainly use Chicken breast.......
Really? Hmmmm.......perhaps you only eat in the posh restaurants then? ;)
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Harbut, It really doesn't matter what you marinate it in
You really need something acidic (e.g. yoghurt, vinegar, wine, lemon juice, tomatoes, etc), to break down the proteins, fats, fibres and tissues, surely? At least if you're attempting to tenderise the meat rather than to just add flavour. And usually some oil to prevent the meat from drying out. And some seasoning/spices to flavour it.
It needs to be cooked to a slightly pinkish colour
Gawd, that would signify blood to me, and not something you'd want to be doing with chicken!
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Harbut,
There are several precooking methods, in the supplementary recipes section, that you might like to look at and try: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?board=28.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?board=28.0)
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Really? Hmmmm.......perhaps you only eat in the posh restaurants then?
I don't think I've ever had thigh in a BIR... and I've eaten a lot of curries at a lot of BIRs.
Here in Canada, its commonly thigh (which personally I don't like). The only BIR I know here, is one of the few that serves strictly breast.
I'd be curious as to what others get in their BIR curry - breast or thigh?
I can't believe I lucked out for all the years I lived in England!
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Harbut, It really doesn't matter what you marinate it in
You really need something acidic (e.g. yoghurt, vinegar, wine, lemon juice, tomatoes, etc), to break down the proteins, fats, fibres and tissues, surely? At least if you're attempting to tenderise the meat rather than to just add flavour. And usually some oil to prevent the meat from drying out. And some seasoning/spices to flavour it.
It needs to be cooked to a slightly pinkish colour
Gawd, that would signify blood to me, and not something you'd want to be doing with chicken!
Hi CA,
You say ... quote "You really need something acidic (e.g. yoghurt, vinegar, wine, lemon juice, tomatoes, etc), to break down the proteins, fats, fibres and tissues, surely? "
The method I mention above in this thread does exactly that . It breaks down the proteins. It really does work. The transformation is quiet noticeable. All that's required is water and bicarb.
If a spice mix is added about halfway through the bicarb process this mix seems to be absorbed into the meat much more intense than if the meat is simply marinated in the spice mix only.
Next time you are using lamb or chicken , just try a couple of peices as a tester.
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I remember about 10 years ago being offered a 'breast upgrade' for an extra ?1 (in a BIR before anyone makes any obvious jokes). Otherwise every BIR in the area uses breast as standard.
I think as with a lot of BIR secrets the pre cook and leave to cool method changes the texture and taste of the chicken. When most of us cook at home I assume like me we generally precook the chicken while the sauce is cooking and add it in hot. I've never tried cooking the chicken in the morning and leaving it on the side to go cold for the rest of the day. It must be worth a go though. Its what all the BIR's do.
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I've been experimenting with poaching chicken recently which gives very soft and moist meat, I wonder if some BIRs pre-poach their chicken in spices. I tried poaching a whole chicken in with my last base, which was very nice by the way.
For info, poaching is different to boiling, the water must NOT rise to boiling point while the chicken is in otherwise it'll just become tough.
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I find that too Spice. I add a little ground pepper too on occasion. One thing I see in the stuff I get is a slight browning which also leads back to CA'S method which in fact is more homestyle cook-as-you-go.
Wish I'd thawed more chicken now ::)
If a spice mix is added about halfway through the bicarb process this mix seems to be absorbed into the meat much more intense than if the meat is simply marinated in the spice mix only.
Next time you are using lamb or chicken , just try a couple of peices as a tester.
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I concur with panpop use the ashoka method for pre-cooked chicken or better still the askhoka recipe for chicken tikka
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spice as Nice, thanks for your tip will have a go tonight for a Thai Curry planned for tomorrow and report back. I do know at The Ashoka the meet is all pre cooked cool before cooking but as you would expect a fast turn around when Busy. I precook as per their recipe and freeze till required and it is still the business. PP
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spice as Nice, thanks for your tip will have a go tonight for a Thai Curry planned for tomorrow and report back. I do know at The Ashoka the meet is all pre cooked cool before cooking but as you would expect a fast turn around when Busy. I precook as per their recipe and freeze till required and it is still the business. PP
Good Luck with the Thai.
I would be having another go tonight but I just daren't. She would kill me as the smells still here and there in the house. Iv'e just used the last of the last base last night so Im'e itching to make up my next base and experiment with yet another variation. Iv'e also been warned she needs the freezer cleared a bit now as it's getting nearer to Christmas. I might just have to wait till the new year now so any currys I make between now and then will be one-offs.
Hmm just wondering if next door has any room in their second freezer !
Let us know how you get on Panpot.
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I just added some yogurt to Panpots version. Smells so good raw frankly. Oh and pepper, oh and I've got a beer. ;D
Spice I really like the look of these techniques as a whole, thanks for posting them.
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Don't the Ashoka Resteraunts throw Battered Mars Bar into the base ?
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i bought a packet of meat tenderiser from an online asian food store. not tried it yet, bought it mainly for lamb, i find lamb hardest to get that nice melt in the mouth texture. easiest to toughen too.
maybe you could use this?
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jimmy2x - try it. Curious to know how the meat tenderizer turns out! Never used it myself.
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Im'e interested in whats in it
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Im'e interested in whats in it
According to Spices Of India (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2espicesofindia%2eco%2euk%2facatalog%2fIndian%2dFood%2ehtml&WD=tenderiser&SHOP=%20&PN=Rajah%2dMeat%2dTenderiser%2ehtml%23aISG081#aISG081 (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2espicesofindia%2eco%2euk%2facatalog%2fIndian%2dFood%2ehtml&WD=tenderiser&SHOP=%20&PN=Rajah%2dMeat%2dTenderiser%2ehtml%23aISG081#aISG081)) it contains salt, modified starch, papain.
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My experience with this is that it is disgusting stuff which adds a horrid flavour. Fresh Papaya is the way to go though longer cooking really does the job very well.
After Xmas I'll start using my pressure cooker. I'm sure this will help greatly but I'll have to see on that? :o
i bought a packet of meat tenderiser from an online asian food store. not tried it yet, bought it mainly for lamb, i find lamb hardest to get that nice melt in the mouth texture. easiest to toughen too.
maybe you could use this?
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looking at the pack
it is made from salt, wheat flour, papain.
thats all.
from wiki
Papain is a cysteine protease (EC 3.4.22.2) enzyme present in papaya (Carica papaya) and mountain papaya (Vasconcellea cundinamarcensis).
Its utility is in breaking down tough meat fibers and has been utilized for thousands of years in its native South America. It is sold as a component in powdered meat tenderizer available in most supermarkets. Papain, in the form of a meat tenderizer such as Adolph's, made into a paste with water, is also a home remedy treatment for jellyfish, bee, yellow jacket (wasps) stings, mosquito bites, and possibly stingray wounds, breaking down the protein toxins in the venom. It is also the main ingredient in Stop Itch and Stop Itch Plus, a DermaTech Laboratories first aid cream popular in Australia.
its made by rajah
will give it a go soon and report back here with the results
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:o
My pack didn't say that. Perhaps that is why?
Papain, in the form of a meat tenderizer such as Adolph's, made into a paste with water.
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during a conversation with the local takeaway chef last nite, i asked him this question and he told me " the chicken is injected with water" "thats the only way it will ever be soft!" he also said all birs and t/aways use this method.
he said there would be no other method to get it to cook that way.
Regards
Harbut
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during a conversation with the local takeaway chef last nite, i asked him this question and he told me " the chicken is injected with water" "thats the only way it will ever be soft!" he also said all birs and t/aways use this method.
he said there would be no other method to get it to cook that way.
Regards
Harbut
Hi, please forgive me for saying this. It's not meant to be offensive. The chef you mention either does not know about velveting or marinating in water and bicarb or if he does know then he's not telling you everything.
I wouldn't disagree that one method of getting chicken soft is to inject it with water but what I do question is him saying that it's the only way. If he think that , then he's wrong.
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yes he mentioned marinating it, but nothing about water and bicarb.
ive also just spoke to a butcher at the halal and he said there is a company that supply pretty much all the restaurants in my area with this type of chicken, but he had never sold it.
Regards
Harbut
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Injecting it with water. :o I suppose its possible heck I've tried some stuff over time. ::)
I'm going to try cooking it with oil and onions as a pre-fry in a saucepan, take the chicken out and caramelise the rest then add those to the base at some point. The most tender is the thighs without doubt though.
Panpots oven baked method is very similar to my tikka method and works a treat too. Try it you won't be disappointed I'm sure.
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Yes, I understand (cos I've had it!) that some BIRs use relatively cheap "processed chicken" (this is why I'm sceptical/scornful when members claim that BIRs ONLY use chicken breast...inferring to me, maybe wrongly, that they use ONLY top quality chicken meat).
I understand that this "processed chicken" contains quite a large amount of water and is probably what this guy is referring to (he will no doubt buy it like this rather than inject it with water himself). Aside from possibly marinating it, I'd be surprised if many BIRs further treat their chicken (e.g. "velveting") to tenderise it.
Having said that, velveting is common practice in Chinese cooking (to prevent the chicken from drying out) so is well worth a go too.
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Yes, I understand (cos I've had it!) that some BIRs use relatively cheap "processed chicken" (this is why I'm sceptical/scornful when members claim that BIRs ONLY use chicken breast...inferring to me, maybe wrongly, that they use ONLY top quality chicken meat).
PS: I''ve had "chicken" (or other "meat") that is FARRRRR more dubious that that too! Hence my comment about only "posh" restaurants only using chicken breast... ;) ;D
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Got to admit CA, I've never had anything else but chicken breast in any BIR that I've been to. If it was anything else but breast, surely you would notice simply by the shape and size of the piece?
Ray
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Yes, I understand (cos I've had it!) that some BIRs use relatively cheap "processed chicken" (this is why I'm sceptical/scornful when members claim that BIRs ONLY use chicken breast...inferring to me, maybe wrongly, that they use ONLY top quality chicken meat).
I understand that this "processed chicken" contains quite a large amount of water and is probably what this guy is referring to (he will no doubt buy it like this rather than inject it with water himself). Aside from possibly marinating it, I'd be surprised if many BIRs further treat their chicken (e.g. "velveting") to tenderise it.
Having said that, velveting is common practice in Chinese cooking (to prevent the chicken from drying out) so is well worth a go too.
Hi Cory, At no point do I say BIR's velvet their chicken. If you read my prev posts on this thread ,what I was meaning was that velveting is ONE way to create a silky outer feel. Its not something I do when making a curry. It's something I have done when making chinese dishes. I was in fact replying to the title thread.
My main point of reply was to make meat tender ..... You can soak / marinate it just in water with bicarb for a few hours.
One second point , and others here make the same observation , is ..... During the process of 'velveting' the meat is heated till its outer turns pale.
So ... not velveting , BUT, just preheating chicken very gently for less than a minute ( no coating or marinating ) then let it cool for several minutes .... then some time soon after that cook it as normal , will see you with tender chicken.
Some chefs call this cooling period "resting" . ( not the resting thats often done with stake AFTER cooking but before serving ) . This is 'resting' before the meat is cooked fully.
Of course seperate to all of the above is 'seasoning' by there and then method or by marinating prior to cooking.
I should also point out that while I have tried all these methods , most of the time I don't do any .I just buy chicken breast meat , boil it up with a little chilly ( yes boil ) slowish , Then add it to my curry base as I cook in another pan .
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Hi Cory, At no point do I say BIR's velvet their chicken
OK, thanks for clarifying SaN...I naturally assumed the context was (or should be) BIR cooking, given the nature of the forum :)
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Has anyone ever noticed that the BIR's pre-cooked chicken is usually stored in a tub or tray in a yellow, yoghurt thick sauce. When they add it to the dish that sauce is added to the curry. This isn't something I have ever seen menioned on here, yet it must impart a certain flavour to the curry.
I noticed this first at the curry lesson I had at a local BIR, but I also noticed it on the Maliks webcam videos. I doubt any of us would have the patience to pre-cook our chicken the day before and refrigerate overnight in the cooking sauce, but maybe that is how it gets the softness.
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I hadn't noticed that Chris but now you mention it I do marinate all my chicken depending on the dish the day before. I always use a mixture of spice and yogurt and bake lightly in the oven. The result is like you are saying too.
Couldn't it just be juices from the meat do you think? I'll have a look at Maliks later, just gets boring without any sound from the camera.
Has anyone ever noticed that the BIR's pre-cooked chicken is usually stored in a tub or tray in a yellow, yoghurt thick sauce. When they add it to the dish that sauce is added to the curry. This isn't something I have ever seen menioned on here, yet it must impart a certain flavour to the curry.
I noticed this first at the curry lesson I had at a local BIR, but I also noticed it on the Maliks webcam videos. I doubt any of us would have the patience to pre-cook our chicken the day before and refrigerate overnight in the cooking sauce, but maybe that is how it gets the softness.
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No, with chicken breast, I might marinate it first, then fry it (only enough to "seal" it) at the beginning of cooking a curry, then add the remaining ingredients (including the base) and cook it until done throughout (i.e. about 5 - 10 mins for 1 inch cubes of chicken breast)
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Ditto, good results every time!
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Not sure why anyone would want to eat a curry using the most cheapest and crappiest processed chicken that money can buy. I'm not saying we should all go organic but I think a half decent chicken breast should be going into our curries. We should be aiming to use decent ingredients and that starts with whatever chicken or lamb is going into our recipes.
Buy decent chicken and don't over cook it and it will be soft enough without any tweaking. If it requires tenderising it's not chicken.
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Has anyone ever noticed that the BIR's pre-cooked chicken is usually stored in a tub or tray in a yellow, yoghurt thick sauce. When they add it to the dish that sauce is added to the curry. This isn't something I have ever seen menioned on here, yet it must impart a certain flavour to the curry.
I noticed this first at the curry lesson I had at a local BIR, but I also noticed it on the Maliks webcam videos. I doubt any of us would have the patience to pre-cook our chicken the day before and refrigerate overnight in the cooking sauce, but maybe that is how it gets the softness.
I've been looking over a few topics being a new kid on the block so to speak. One thing that strikes out at me is how different things seem to be compared to what I have picked up from my local restaurant. I guess the answer for this is here I just haven't found it yet.
However, they cook all the prepared chicken on skewers in the tandoor oven. Its marinated accordingly, then given a very fast and hard cook. Then stacked on trays to await use, but not in any sauce. The end result is always perfectly cooked moist soft chicken.
One of the perks (as I call it) of my job, is that I have frequented many professional kitchens. One I visited had Harrisa Chicken Skewers on the menu which I was offered to try. They were so succulent I was amazed. I was then told the key was to heat the oven as hot as possible 250c upwards and cook 1 1/2 inch size pieces on a skewer for about 12mins.
This is now how I cook all my chicken for our family curry feasts and I can promise you, given the appropriate marinate, you will get perfect succulent chicken everytime.