Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: vin daloo on August 04, 2005, 01:17 PM
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Last night i made the nicest curry i can remember - ive had a lot worse from a takeaway. The base was bruce edwards recipe (i added celery seeds instead of ajowan by mistake and the smell comin off it was amazing). The chicken was also cooked bruces way.
for a basic chicken curry i put 3 tbs oil in the pan until very hot, a cooks spoon of sauce - the pan ignited at this stage and i stirred till the flames died. I almost evaporated the sauce and added about a tsp of spice mix, a pinch or 2 chilli powder, pinch of methi and about a tsp of "all purpose seasoning"(salt mixture from asian wholesalers). Added another spoon of sauce and reduced, added chicken and cooked for a bit adding sauce as the stuff in the pan thickened. Chopped and added good bit of corriander and finished with a last spoon of sauce, turned down heat and simmered for a minuit or two. I could taste everything - the sauce , spice , corriander and chicken without the whole thing being overspiced. If im not satisfied with a result i normaly eat the chicken and throw the sauce away, but this time i wanted seconds! Another couple of tsps of chilli powder and i would have done a decent vindaloo.
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That one sounds great. What brand is the 'seasoned salt' ?
Anyone else actually tried the base with Ajowan seeds - does it make a difference ?
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the seasoned salt is east end if i remember correctly, im not that sure. it comes in the same packaging as all the other spices.
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Anybody else tried this seasoned salt? Is it something new to the Forum?
regards, Dylan
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Ive tried bruce's base and it is good, Ive tried arjwain seeds in 2 bases and they added something.
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Can you post Bruces, base sauce here so i can copy it then try your method?
Thanks,
Stew 8)
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I think means the curry gravy from my post at
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=108.0
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yes, curry house cookery in the downloads section
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I think the main ingredient of "all purpose seasoning"(salt mixture from asian wholesalers) is monosodium glutamate.
I saw a packet in a shop today.
I was also looking at the instructions, for using monosodium glutamate.
They were written on the packet
You just add a little, at the end of cooking
I don't understand how the stuff works
How does it enhance a flavour?
Does it enhance all flavours?
Sweet, sour, spicey and salty.
Isn't it supposed to give you cancer?
I thought at one point, the stuff was banned.
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Was the stuff you saw a redish colour? I wasnt aware that the main ingredient was msg, i have a seperate bag of that stuff as well. This "all purpose seasoning" that i have contains different spices, paprika, cardamom and quite a few others.
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I'll take a closer look
I thought it was a yellow/brown colour
I'll probably buy some, next time I'm in the shop.
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I bought some all purpose seasoning
It's made by East End
The colour is a dull orange/brown
Here's the Ingredients:-
Salt
Monosodium glutimate
chilli powder
onion powder
pepper
paprika
vegetable oil
anti caking agant
garlic powder
nutmeg
celery
coriander
cummin
cardomons
cloves
colour E160b
I'll try it in my next curry
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Aye, thats the one, Dont think it makes that much of a difference to the taste though, i use it in anythin spicy i cook.
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I put some of the all purpose seasoning in a vindaloo.
I noticed the extra salty taste but nothing really else.
Being as it has msg in, I don't want to use it unless it makes a massive difference.
I'll try it in another one and see
I was expecting a "taste explosion" and it didn't happen
What exactly is a "flavour enhancer" if it doesn't do something pretty amazing?
Surely salt has to be the ultimate flavour enhancer
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I tried MSG in some homemade Chinese dishes recently and didn't notice any difference. I agree wityh you Pete, I think salt does the job.
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I agree with salt and lots of it espcially in the gravy, if theres not enough salt in my curry now I can taste it "missing" but go a little to far and it ruins it which ive done a few times. I tend to stick loads in the gravy now and usualy don't have to add any at curry time but adjust if its not there.
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No, i agree that seasoned salt doesnt make a noticeable difference, i just use it with anything spicy because of the spices in it. As for msg i wouldnt worry about it, i mentioned before that i read its actually better for you than salt. There was somethin about it causing cancer or something - but then again they recon eating red meat (and lots of other stuff) will give you cancer these days.
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There's a really interesting article in last month's Observer Food Monthly about msg here: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/foodmonthly/story/0,9950,1522368,00.html, I was surprised to learn it naturally occurs in lots of food!? It may well be pertinent to the search for a good BIR clone. :)
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I have to comment about MSG. In the US, studies have found it to cause cancer in lab studies. I mean - big studies - it is a confirmed fact!!! The big push there is to privide food without it. I am very alarmed to see in the UK people dont care about that or just dont know about it. I always read all the packages and make sure that nothing i buy has MSG in it!! I ate at one chinese place here and after eating, had terrible symptoms - dizziness, giddiness and just felt terrible - symptoms from too much MSG!! I will not have any type of chinese food in the Uk anymore because none of them say their food is MSG free - in the US, all the restaurants advertise that they are 100% MSG free.
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Have you got links to those studies?
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I remember a study that stated that swallowing can give you cancer .
Using Toilet paper can give you Cancer !!!
The Cancer debate is huge, MSG, well just add it to our list.
Oh & over cooked food is carcinogenic.
Enjoy life.... ;D
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After all that I am seriously considering suicide!!
Iv'e given up swallowing, now have newspaper in the bog (get rid of that giant Andrex Darth!!) and iv'e just burned the salad!! No hope for me then!
Goodbye cruel world!!!!
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Have you got links to those studies?
Sorry, no links....I do believe what is written in US papers though...thats what I grew up reading. I did research myself for graduate school and although it wasnt on MSG (it was alzheimer's disease), I do know how studies work and if it is published, it has to be backed up. So i dont question the studies. Overcooked food does not cause cancer but those items grilled do. I think this is due to is a difference in american and british culture. I dont mean to knock british culture but things are not so hygenic here and people are not so careful with raw meat, eggs, etc.
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Oh & over cooked food is carcinogenic.
? ?Enjoy life.... ;D
Damn Ive just cooked a curry with caramelised onions!
;D at least curries and spices are proven to be good for you!
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I dont mean to knock british culture but things are not so hygenic here and people are not so careful with raw meat, eggs, etc.
3 chefs from my local BIR got fired last night for serving raw chicken ;D
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Have you got links to those studies?
I dont mean to knock british culture but things are not so hygenic here and people are not so careful with raw meat, eggs, etc.
I don't mean to be argumentative or anything but I was born and raised originally in Canada, and large chunks of my family live there and in various parts of the US - and we think the opposite!
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Sorry when i said overcooked i meant BBQ`d grilled etc.. when the food blackens sorry to mislead you.
So no frying the toilet paper you hear me Ray g. he he. ;D
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I have to comment about MSG. In the US, studies have found it to cause cancer in lab studies. I mean - big studies - it is a confirmed fact!!! The big push there is to privide food without it. I am very alarmed to see in the UK people dont care about that or just dont know about it. I always read all the packages and make sure that nothing i buy has MSG in it!! I ate at one chinese place here and after eating, had terrible symptoms - dizziness, giddiness and just felt terrible - symptoms from too much MSG!! I will not have any type of chinese food in the Uk anymore because none of them say their food is MSG free - in the US, all the restaurants advertise that they are 100% MSG free.
This 'msg' is found in Walkers Crisps and Pringles and infact most food snacks, its also under the name of Flavour Enhancer or E621, have a look at the back of a packet of crisps next time you have some.
On that note though, i've too had a head ache after eating at ?5 eat all you can type of place, and it is due to the amount of msg they use, but this can be overcome by drinking lots of fluids (not alchohol). So if any of you are thinking of going to a chinese buffet then try to look for places that advertise 'msg free' or just drink loads(water).
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A friend of mine has an allergy to M.S.G. so ask's the local Chinese Takeaway to leave the M.S.G. out of the order. However, they say the taste is lacking from dishes with it in so I guess it's job as a "flavour enhancer" shows it does do a job. Can't comment on how bad it is for us though!
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Check this out for alternative names MSG can go under on labels: http://www.msgmyth.com/hidename.htm
Bit hard to avoid all those ;D
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I think I'll chuck my "all purpose seasoning" away
If it's that bad, I am surprised that it's sold
There was a time when there was an msg scare, but it died down
I assumed that everything had been sorted out
A bit like that Sudan 1 thing
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My feeling is that MSG may be a flavor enhancer but in all those chinese restaurants in the US, the food tastes great!! And there is no MSG!! It is kind of like in indian cooking, the people who dont use onions and garlic - their food still tastes great in a different way. it is hard to explain.....some spices are like substitutes for those 2 items. Please dont ask me to explain how, I dont know! I havent made the effort to learn that because onions and garlic are both very good for the health. At least fo rnow they are until they come up with a study that shows otherwise - like the whole butter/margarine debacle :o
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Have you got links to those studies?
I dont mean to knock british culture but things are not so hygenic here and people are not so careful with raw meat, eggs, etc.
I don't mean to be argumentative or anything but I was born and raised originally in Canada, and large chunks of my family live there and in various parts of the US - and we think the opposite!
I guess it varies from person to person! It is difficult to generalize about a population. I just made that comment based on what I have seen so far - I have been here only 2 months. perhaps we american people might be a bit too paranoid about sterilization and the such. But it doesnt hurt to be careful!!
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No, never hurts to be careful! :)
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Virtually all stock contains msg, I think the only ones Ive seen that dont are the bouillion make or some such
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Most of the stocks do contain MSG but stock is not used in indian cooking....the cube stocks always have it but in the US i buy some stock packets that dont have MSG and use it in chinese soups. I will see if i still have the box or not - I doubt it. But i dont buy any noodles or anything wiht it - not much junk food at all - make things at home instead.
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From the Observer Food Monthly article:
"So you think you don't eat MSG? Think again...
Some of the names MSG goes under
monopotassium glutamate
glutavene
glutacyl
glutamic acid
autolyzed yeast extract
calcium caseinate
sodium caseinate
E621 (E620-625 are all glutamates)
Ajinomoto, Ac'cent
Gourmet Powder
The following may also contain MSG
natural flavours or seasonings
natural beef or chicken flavouring
hydrolyzed milk or plant protein
textured protein
seasonings
soy sauce
bouillon
broth
spices
Free glutamate content of foods (mg per 100g)
roquefort cheese 1280
parmesan cheese 1200
soy sauce 1090
walnuts 658
fresh tomato juice 260
grape juice 258
peas 200
mushrooms 180
broccoli 176
tomatoes 140
mushrooms 140
oysters 137
corn 130
potatoes 102
chicken 44
mackerel 36
beef 33
eggs 23
human milk 22 "
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Hi Paast, stock is used in British Indian Restaurant cooking (which is what this forum is mostly about)
Not having a go at you, just pointing out the relevance of my post :)
cheers
Mark
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Hello Paast,
It is interesting to read your postings and personally I would like to share some of the positive feedback you might offer the group?
For example, you seem to have a lot of experience in the U.S. of restaurants and your own home cooking which I find different in certain respect's to what we find in the U.K. Now you are in the U.K. perhaps you can experience the differences yourself.
I have eaten in a few Indian restaurants in the U.S. and don't find the taste is the same as in BIR's in the U.K.. Why is that? It would be interesting to explore the reasons.
It would be good to share your experiences, recipes with constructive input that gives advice from you for traditional Indian Cooking as well as The Restaurant Curry we all are looking for answers to.
I can't seem to find recipe advice from you on the site so it would be great to see a posting or two with your recipes attached.
Regards
Ray
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Yes, I do have some experience with indian restaurants in the US as I have eaten in lots of them!! I went to another indian restaurant today and did not like the food. The indian food here is very very different from what I have eaten in the USA and also from the food I eat while in India. But thats not to say that the food here is bad. I personally dont like it but many people in this country are used to it and love it!!
I do mean to put some recipes up on this site - this week for sure...maybe some simple things i cook up like some paneer dishes and some dal dishes. We eat dal every day and only occasionally eat the richer foods which have gravies ("curries"). I have some copies from the best cookbook I have even seen from my favorite restaurant - Bombay Palace. This restaurant is in many countries and even in London. I have yet to go to that one. I have been to about 7 of their locations and the food is exactly the same in each one as the recipes are identical. The cookbook actually gives all the restaurant recipes!! My dad has the cookbook in the US but I have some of my favorite recipes photocopied from it. I will copy some of them this week and post them here. You all might be interested in trying some other types of indian food.
By the way, my name is Payal.
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Hi Paast, stock is used in British Indian Restaurant cooking (which is what this forum is mostly about)
Not having a go at you, just pointing out the relevance of my post? :)
cheers
Mark
Wow, that is news to me...I am hoping you mean veg. stock as lots of people are vegetarians and expect their dish to be vegetarian. Please let me know as my dad will come to visit soon and he is pure vegetarian.
I have to admit, the best indian food here I have had was at "anoki" in Derby. I tried a number of places in Derby but found their 2 dishes I tried to be closest to authentic (except they also had onions and garlic). Besides that one place, I wouldnt go anywhere else again. Anyone eaten at Bombay Palace in London? I know from their cookbook that they dont use any stock..not even for meat dishes. I ate at many of their locations on the US, 2 in Canada and also 1 in Malaysia and the food was identical in them. I know, I only order my favorite dish each time ;D
Payal
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You all might be interested in trying some other types of indian food.
By the way, my name is Payal.
Hi Payal, I'm keen to see these authentic recipes. Fire away.................
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We have fairly conclusive proof that some BIR's use chicken stock in the base sauce
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We have fairly conclusive proof that some BIR's use chicken stock in the base sauce
That would be really bad. Thats the kind of thing that could cause shutdown of places - if those kinds of things happen here like in the US. I know some relatives here who are pure vegetarian and it would make them sick to know that. I am not going to any indian restaurants here - I do eat chicken as my only meat but just out of principle, it makes me sick >:(
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Not wanting to a be a spoil-sport Payal but could you perhaps outline for us just what IS worth us eating on this planet without causing serious disfigurement or to glow in the dark!!??.
Your postings only seem to point out the negative side of what most of us on this site consider a subject of enjoyment and worth pursuing.
I seem to feel if I took your advice on what was good and bad for us I would perhaps stop eating for good !!
I would still prefer you to give more positive input such as help with traditional recipes for Indian food which you have a lot of experience and sound excellent and I am sure would be great knowledge to share at. More of that would be spot on!
Regards
Ray
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Not wanting to a be a spoil-sport Payal but could you perhaps outline for us just what IS worth us eating on this planet without causing serious disfigurement or to glow in the dark!!??.
Your postings only seem to point out the negative side of what most of us on this site consider a subject of enjoyment and worth pursuing.
I seem to feel if I took your advice on what was good and bad for us I would perhaps stop eating for good !!
I would still prefer you to give more positive input such as help with traditional recipes for Indian food which you have a lot of experience and sound excellent and I am sure would be great knowledge to share at. More of that would be spot on!
Regards
Ray
I was just pointing out what is important to my religion and the well-being of other indians. I never said for everyone to stop eating BIR food - it is the farthest thing from authentic indian food anyways. I suppose those people who are not vegetarian could not understand how a vegetarian would feel if they found out there was chicken stock in their food!! I wanted to post some recipes but have decided this site is not for me. I imagine other people cannot imagine the shock of learning that chicken stock may be used in dishes. I feel that is an insult to me personally. About the MSG, I just pointed out what we are taught in the US - an advanced country in all respects.
I wish you all luck in finding that taste you are after. I think it is strictly in the technique of cooking that can alter taste so much - not so much the ingredients even! For example, onions cooked in various stages have very different tastes, textures and colors.
Best of luck.
payal
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I wouldn't be too sure about the chicken stock, some restaurants may use it but I doubt its the majority of them, I just can't beilive that every restaurant in the country is doing this, it's like the old myth that the local kebab house donor is full of the area's missing dogs? :o? Well maybe not that bad but none of the chefs i've asked have said they use chicken stock for the base or otherwise, the closest being a bit of the liquid the chicken is cooked in going in the final "chicken" curry.? Ive tried it and to me it made no real difference so I don't use it, don't assume everything your told is 100% true without at least questioning it.
I think it is strictly in the technique of cooking that can alter taste so much - not so much the ingredients even! For example, onions cooked in various stages have very different tastes, textures and colors.
I agree with that ;)
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I appreciate that response but if that could even be remotely true, then a vegetarian should never go there. Honestly, I am frustrated here that I cant find "real" indian food. The Derby place was good food - but not traditional. Now I understand why the menus here have a list of ingredients and then you pick what curry you want with it. I have never seen such thing in the US or malaysia or Singapore or Canada. Those are the only other countries I have had indian food in. I dont think people in england would even like traditional food because it doesnt have curries and no rich flavor like the BIR here. I am waiting to try the Bombay palace in London just to see if it follows the same cookbook as the other ones across the world or if it has been adjusted to suit Brits.
Does anyone cook lentils at all? Thay can be very very tasty and not at all heavy - thats where curry leaves come in handy oftentimes.
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I cook lentils for Tarka Dhall and for a Dhansak on occasion but I get the feeling thats not what you mean :)
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Well, you mean you to put lentils with meats? I have never tried that - but i know it can be done. I mean just having lentils as a main dish - they are very creamy (when cook right) and can be flavored any which way! Actually, I saw a lentil recipe on a cooking show recently...but the cook used a moxture of 3-4 lentils. it didnt taste too great to me....usually we cook 1 at a time. I will have to copy it here under the authentic food column as well as give my recipe.
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Yeah a Dhansak is a sweet\sour "curry" with lentils I don't know if theres a veggie version but I would assume so, what about a Tarka Dhall:
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=19.0
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I appreciate that response but if that could even be remotely true, then a vegetarian should never go there.? Honestly, I am frustrated here that I cant find "real" indian food.?
Hi Payal,
Firstly I must agree you should not trust half of what you read and I am sure Chicken stock will not appear in Vegetarian food as much as you may think.
As for your quest for traditional Indian Cooking there are far more websites and recipes posted on the internet dedicated to the "real indian food" you are striving to find than the BIR curries people here are looking for.
Like those wishing to find the answers to restaurant cookery there are those like yourself looking for something else. Just typing the word's "Curry" or "Curry Recipes" or even "Traditional Curry Cooking" etc into your search engine brings up a wealth of options I am sure will help you out. You mention the Bombay Palace in London and recipes from it. I have a recipe book from the Bombay Brasserie also in London which is a top quality recommended restaurant with dishes more like the traditional cooking you are after.
My personal taste is very varied and I equally enjoy more traditional curry recipes or our high steet take-away's. I like them all but for different reason's. It depends on my fancy at the time! Have you seen the book? ?"Classic Indian Vegetarian and Grain Cooking"? This seems to be a book rated for it's authentic Indian style and by a well known author and being vegetarian as well may appeal to you.
Ray
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Hi Payal,
Just remembered the other author of a couple of books of authentic Indian Food I have by Mridela Baljekur. I have made a few of her recipes and they are really delicious.
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Hi Payal,
Just remembered the other author of a couple of books of authentic Indian Food I have by Mridela Baljekur. I have made a few of her recipes and they are really delicious.
Yes, I have at least 1 of her books - was very intrigued when in the states I saw a book of hers called "best Ever Curry recipes" !! it is quite a good book with a variety of dishes. I have made 1 or 2 of her chicken recipes and they were pretty good.
I understand this site is after the BIR taste. I will post a recipe for the makhani sauce from the Bombay Palace cookbook - it may be an "authentic" BIR taste!! I use this gravy for chicken tikka, vegetables and paneer. I will post it today under the authentic recipes just so you all can try it. Strangely enough, it is the only recipe in the whole book which you make a base sauce for and then take some of that base sauce and cook with further with other ingredients - sounds like most of the most recipes I see on this site. That seems to be the BIR style. The main taste comes from adding ginger paste into the tomato sauce rather than frying it in oil. I gurantee is is worth a try and tastes identical to the restaurant one. Does not even use more unusual ingredients (no rye, curry leaves). I will do that a bit later today.
Payal
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Excellent !!
If you don't mind, could you post your Chicken Tikka recipe also. Thanks.
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yes, I can post it too although I dont really follow a standard recipe for that. What I find most important is skewering the meat on sticks and cooking them in the oven. Somehow keeps the boneless pieces more moist.
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Where do I put the recipes? The authentic section says no restaurant recipes. Thanks.
When I wrote that the main taste comes from putting raw ginger in the sauce - I meant garlic. I dont know why I wrote ginger.
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Where do I put the recipes? The authentic section says no restaurant recipes.
Just stick them in under authentic if there from an authentic style book, they can be linked to or moved later if need be.
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Ok. Thanks. I will write it as the recipe book says and then write my own method too as I dont use fresh tomato - never tried it that way :) Always used tomato puree.
Payal
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I put up the butter tomato sauce one just now in authentic recipes..will add my chicken tikka masala recipe later today. feel free to ask tons of questions about my recipe!
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I appreciate that response but if that could even be remotely true, then a vegetarian should never go there.? Honestly, I am frustrated here that I cant find "real" indian food.? The Derby place was good food - but not traditional.? Now I understand why the menus here have a list of ingredients and then you pick what curry you want with it.? I have never seen such thing in the US or malaysia or Singapore or Canada.? Those are the only other countries I have had indian food in.? I dont think people in england would even like traditional food because it doesnt have curries and no rich flavor like the BIR here.? I am waiting to try the Bombay palace in London just to see if it follows the same cookbook as the other ones across the world or if it has been adjusted to suit Brits.
Does anyone cook lentils at all?? Thay can be very very tasty and not at all heavy - thats where curry leaves come in handy oftentimes.
With regard to your question about lentils, I use them regularly in cooking (not just in curries but in soups and stuff too). If you have any recipes for daal ( authentic or otherwise) I would be appreciative.
Thanks, Dylan
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Will do that this week..possibly tomorrow...mostly we cook yellow lentils (known as Toor, or Arhaar dal) but I have some recipes with the red lentil which most people may use in soups and the such. They cook the quickest.
Payal
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Payal, I look forward to trying your recipes, they sound very good. Thanks! :) (They seem like the sort of thing my children will enjoy too - yes my kids are also curry freaks!).
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hi payal
there is a recipe for onion gravy from my local RAJVER which is posted on this site. i have made it on a regular basis (at least once every two weeks) and had some fab curries. mainly vindaloos.but the reason i make it so oftten is becuase it takes only 1 hour to cook. however i do recommend using bruce edwards' curry house cookery base and recipes. again we all know that bir cuuries are far from authentic but we are all so lucky to be able to have a mystery like this to challenge all of us, to be a "holy grail" & to be passionate about trying everything to recreate the aroma, texture and THE TASTE :)
life before i discovered the bir curry was abit dull the only curries i ever eaten before were either from the local chinese or an attempt by my mum( bless her). i'm not a lover of mixing fruit with my savoury.so was horrified one day to discover, after i had put the 1st huge forkful of home made curry for the 1st taste i got was not curry in my chicken curry but apple in in chcken curry and an awful powdery taste. guess that was growing up in 70's & 80's. and the lack of bir's. oh no i can taste a vesta( good memory for recollecting taste from my past) feeling quite sick, so it's lucky i cooked a chicken vinadloo lastnight and oops cooked too much so feeling much better now :D
well i hope that i have been no help at all ;)
regards gary
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Thanks woodpecker.....no use at all right enough, but it does bring back memories :)
Have you tried a Vesta 'Beef' Curry with a spoonful of chillies.........it is actually not a bad change from all these rich BIR jobs and reminds of your dear old mum :)
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Oh the horror of 'curries' from the 70's!? :D? I have quite a large collection of cookbooks and the curry recipes in the older ones (50's -late 70's) are usually chopped apple and sultanas, teaspoon of Branston Pickle and half teaspoon of curry powder!? It's a miracle we ever took to the stuff.
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Tend to agree... Bruce Edwards or Pete's base sauce seems to be the way to begin any assimilation of the BIR taste....use this as the basis and experiment ! The quest continues !
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Oh the horror of 'curries' from the 70's! ...It's a miracle we ever took to the stuff.
I remember the 1970s quite well and I'm sure the BIR curries were almost as good then, as now. I say 'almost' because I'm not sure that CTM had arrived. But most towns had several BIRs - it felt like almost as many as now - and the 'taste' was most certainly there, with the same basic menu, except Balti items, which I have never liked anyway.
I love those British curries with apples and sultanas and things. They're a different animal, like BIR curries, authentic Indian curries, Thai curries, chinese curries, etc, etc.
Don't knock the 70s!
Regards
George
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dear george and others ;)
i wasn't knocking the 70's man( after all i did grow up in them) i was merely recollecting that vesta curries then well tasted like the box they came in with curry powder sprinkled on, at the age of 7 or 8 if think that was a pretty good observation imo :)
but i have no recollection of any bir curry of any sort didn't know of any in our area :( a reminiscing sadnesss maybe.
anyway
has anyone tried the onion gravy base i have posted from rajver yet coz i haven't seen any postings and it is suitable for veggies. as i have said many times i have had very good results with it using the bruce edwards methods of cooking.
heat the oil until hot but not smoking add the salt, rest masala, chilli powder,tom puree or paste mix well DONOT BURN.then add ladle of base, evap down then after a couple of mins add 2-3 ladles of base allow to start to bubble before adding either cooked or un-cooked meat. then cook till it has well cooked or heated through before adding any further ingredients such as coconut, almonds, coriander, cream etc,etc....garnishing with coriander.
well thats enuff from me ;)
regards
gary
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i wasn't knocking the 70's man( after all i did grow up in them) i was merely recollecting that vesta curries then well tasted like the box they came in with curry powder sprinkled on..
but i have no recollection of any bir curry of any sort didn't know of any in our area
It sounds like you missed out in your area. In Portsmouth and surrounding area, where I grew up, I'm sure there were almost as many curry houses in the 1970s as now - loads to choose from. I enjoyed Vesta Beef curries as a highlight of Inter-Rail trips around Europe. We took a few Vesta packs with us, to cook on a Calor gas stove on camp sites. For what they were, I always enjoyed them.
Regards
George
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George I certainly wasn't knocking the 70's, I remember them too! ;D I should have said homemade curries from the 70's. Luckily my mum did a passable authentic style curry - complete with onion salad - but I remember the horrors produced at other people's tables..
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Homemade curries from the 70's, I remember the horrors produced at other people's tables!
I started my serious curry making in the 70's and there was certainly nothing like the recipes on this site. My first book was called Harvey Day's Curry Book, or something like that and was supposed to be the book of the "real thing".
What a disaster, there wasn't even a hint of the taste of curry in it so what I was doing wrong I don't know. It would take me another 20 years to even get close. I do remember how restaurant curries tasted so good in those days though!
And now 30 years down the line and I still haven't found the flippin answer!!
Ray
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Hi Ray,
I have a book somewhere by Harvey Day called the Complete Book Of Curries. Could this be the one that you had?
Way back then I tried many curries from that book, some good results and some bad but at the time I didn't know it was going to take 20 years to achieve my curry goal and hence didn't take many notes on what I was achieving.
If there were any recipes in the book that anyone would like I will gladly post them.
Cheers all,
Blondie
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>And now 30 years down the line and I still haven't found the flippin answer!!
Ray
I'm sorry to hear you feel you've still not found "the flippin answer". Does that mean all the little successes reported on this site count for nothing and, in summary, we've moved forward very little?
Even the apparent favourite base sauce is the quite old Bruce Edwards version.
So many people have said they've cracked it, they have the taste, quest over or apparent words to that effect. I'm confused.
In a nutshell, where does everyone feel they've got to, and how much further work is there to do?
Regards
George
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I know what you mean George. At times I think I've cracked it 100%, then do another dish and find there is something lacking - making me unsure if my previous 100% version was really that good or was it down to the 10 pints of beer before I sat down to eat it :)
I think were are all very close and stumble upon a perfect one from time to time. Consistency is what we need.
Alcohol doesn't negatively impact curry making, it just affects your ability to remember what you did.
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In a nutshell, where does everyone feel they've got to, and how much further work is there to do?
George, I think I am where I was about twenty years ago, give or take a pepper and carrot in the base sauce. I haven't posted for a while (but have been reading the posts) because the forum seems to have turned to a discussion of more traditional indian style cooking. That's OK if that's your thing, but I like this forum for what it was set up to be, i.e. a discussion of Indian restaurant style curries.
I also get bored reading yet another version of a base sauce, when if you read the ingredients carefully they are rarely different, a few extra onions maybe, garam instead of curry mix, fresh toms or puree, blah blah.
Yeah I know I'm being negative again, but just look at some of the posts, they generally go like this: best curry ever, still missing the taste and the smell, but yes best curry ever. What is the point of any of this if we are still missing those two golden principles of Britsh curries, the unique taste and the unmistakable aroma of the British restaurant curry?
I will arrogantly state as a fact that no one on this forum can make a curry that would make me think it was from a restaurant. Now that's what I want. If you think you can, then post the recipe.
But back to the origional theme George, the biggest steps forward for me: some veggies in the base sauce, the curry massala mix, fried onions mixed in at the end of certain curries.
My positive contribution to this....well I don't have one. I am still where I was 20 years ago, more or less. But what I will say, is that this forum is where you will find the definitive British Indian restaurant style cooking, and thats no bad thing :)
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See my latest post, it is very good, done 16 Curries all goood mate same base slight different final recipe let me know what you think.It is better than 99% Take-aways Ive been in .
& a really blunt, honest friend likes it better than his favorite Take-away & thinks it the best Curry he`s ever tasted .http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=445.15. :)
PS i like it & for the first time will cook it for any critical friends ( lot of Curryheads down here). ;D
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blade - you said: "Consistency is what we need." You're right. It might not be sufficient, but it's certainly necessary. For example, I could never run a cafe turning out great capuccinos. Sometimes I can foam the milk perfectly and (separately) the whole cup tastes great; other times, well. A curry is more complex so even more of a challenge.
yellow fingers - I agree with you: my preference is for this forum to concentrate on discussions of British Indian restaurant (BIR) style curries, and that the acid test is whether anyone has achieved "the two golden principles of Britsh curries, the unique taste and the unmistakable aroma of the British restaurant curry". Can anyone put their hand on their heart and say they have?
Darth - you said one or more of your curries were "better than 99% take-aways" you've been in . I'm sure they are. And some take aways are not very good at all. But most have the taste and aroma. When you say "better" do you mean just like one of the best examples of a BIR curry. I suggest the acid test here is whether it has the character of a BIR curry, AS WELL AS being a good curry in absolute terms.
Regards
George
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It is my belief that everything you need to know to produce the BIR curry is already on this site, and there are people using this site who are quite capable of doing it,you included Yellow Fingers, it's just that theyr're not convinced of it. Heres a clue; The lucky ones who have been invited into a restaurant kitchen to see their meal being prepared often comment that when they ate it, it didn't have the smell / flavour.
The secret is a suitable base sauce plus a tarka of a small quantity of ground spices to produce the smell, which will be apparent to anyone not in the immediate vicinity of the kitchen. Why not try the " kitchen door test " I suggested some weeks ago? I have and I dont need convincing.
Anyway, great site, keep those posts coming.
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Yes Ive been told my Curries are 100% take-away style ( as in pureed ingredients, smoooooooth etc..).
But my hypercritical friend also said they are better in flavor & if he had been served my Curry in A Bir he would be a very happy customer, he doesn't think they( Take-away) have that full, sweet yet savory taste & aromatic aroma( that my Curries do).
The friend in question is very honest & I'm extremely happy with my last 16 Curries ( & I'm hypercritical of myself when it comes to my own Curries aren't we all? ;)).
The only missing (smell is because my chicken is not marinated as it is in my local BIR).
This i will discover soon as the holiday season is coming to a close & i will be pressing for info or cooking lessons of some description.
Factors i believe are important to my step forward in Curry cooking.
The size the Garlic is chopped in the final dish ( Ive found larger shreds done by my cheese grater give better results).
why ?
When pureed i find the Garlic cooks well before the Onion & have found it produces a more savory slightly bitter taste, but when in larger shreds it cooks with the Onions & produces a very different sweeter taste.
I cook in larger batches ( 3 litres) giving margin for error to be bigger.
I'm cooking the final dish at lower heat & in much less time( i found cooking the hell out of spices made them lose their flavor & especially smell.
I cook with desert spoons of each spice.
I use Salt.
The Passata is much better 700grams.(with Tomato Ketchup & Puree i found to be getting huge amount of inconsistency) That is no more I'm glad to say? ?;D.
I use Paprika & Fenugreek leaves (i thought it was Coriander in my Vindalloo, done a taste test on my local & the amount of Coriander is quite low).
I use hardly any Oil yet it tastes better now than ever before !( less than 5 tablespoons for 10 curries).
The Kitchen door test is done in my home, i go out into the garden to taste as i cook & as i walk back , well you can imagine the smell mmmmmmm!!
I like many on this site doubt any that say they've got it nearly 100% ( no more) I'm too close.
And finally Ive been in many Bir`s & they are not all alike so i will say that for me personally that my quest is nearly at its conclusion. ( Ive cooked 16-20 Curries & they are 99.9% clones of my local, which i love).
To also conclude I am nearly at the stage were i will never be going to my local unless i am too busy & cant be bothered to cook, this for me speaks for itself.?
Please try the latest recipe i have posted & let me know how close it is to your local Bir ( as I'm interested to see how alike they really are across the UK.)
Here is the link? ?http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=445.15
I hope there is enough info here .
DARTHPHALL....... 8)
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Ok Darthphall, I have only one question. Are you single? :D
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I'm probably to old for you (37) :)
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The link in my above post isn't functioning so here it is again sorry ..http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=445.15
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I will arrogantly state as a fact that no one on this forum can make a curry that would make me think it was from a restaurant. Now that's what I want. If you think you can, then post the recipe.
I can make very good curries
At times I have thought they were the same as a takeaway
But on reflection, they aren't
There is a definite aroma and taste missing
They are not the same
They miss a fried spicy smokey smell/taste
There is nothing I have seen at the various demos, which could make a difference, to what is already posted.
I thought it was the tandoor but it's not
I have made some fantastic tandoori chicken and naans
But they do not give off that wonderful smell we are missing
I will try Darth's 99% recipe
I only have one theory
We are not getting the frying oil hot enough on our cookers
I feel the taste am getting is more like a boiled version of what I want, rather than a fried one
This would affect both the curry gravy and the finished dish
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I'm probably to old for you (37)? :)
Haha I'm 37 too! (yes really). :)
Anyway, enough of my sillyness, let's get back to what really matters - curry!
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I can make very good curries
I can too and I wasn't trying to infer that the curries posted here are naff, quite the opposite. But they just don't go that last bit towards restaurant style curries.
There is a definite aroma and taste missing
They are not the same
They miss a fried spicy smokey smell/taste
Precisely and in my opinion when we find the missing ingredient/technique that gives that unmistakable indian restaurant curry smell then the last bit of the taste puzzle will also fall into place automatically.
I will try Darth's 99% recipe
With a claim like that, I'm going to try it too but not for a few weeks yet because I have too much base sauce in the freezer. Actually that makes me wonder how people manage to try so many different bases in such a short time. When I make a batch of base sauce it usually makes about eight curries, which then lasts me about three weeks. So I usually don't try another variation until about three weeks later. So some of you must either have very full freezers or just eat an awful lot of curries.
I only have one theory
We are not getting the frying oil hot enough on our cookers
I used to think that, but some people here have 'wok' rings on their cookers which are just about the equal of the restaurant cookers and they haven't reported any great leap forward, so I'm doubtful now about the high heat theory. The only method that obviously has to impart some smokiness to the curry is the flambeing of the curry as it is cooking and not many people seem to have much success doing this correctly. This does require a high heat to achieve. Some people report getting flickers of flame around the edges of the pan, but it's just not the same thing. This, as you know, is how it should be:
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? ? ? ?Why not try the " kitchen door test " I suggested some weeks ago?
I use a far simpler test. When I make a curry I put one portion in the fridge and the next day I open it up and sniff. Every curry I have ever had from a restaurant always has the distinct smell the next day even when cold. The curries I make don't. As I've said elsewhere I've been at this lark for about twenty years now and very little of what is posted on this forum is new to me. I've tried many base sauces and uncountable curry variations but I am still missing that unmistakable smell.
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I will arrogantly state as a fact that no one on this forum can make a curry that would make me think it was from a restaurant. Now that's what I want. If you think you can, then post the recipe.
I bet I could!
Now that's what I want. If you think you can, then post the recipe.
The recipes are already on here so I will arrogantly state that if someone can't reproduce a curry to a least a poor restaurant standard from whats on this site then I suggest you find another hobby.? ? :P
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I will arrogantly state as a fact that no one on this forum can make a curry that would make me think it was from a restaurant. Now that's what I want. If you think you can, then post the recipe.
I bet I could!
I'm very glad to hear it. Can you post the recipe please if it hasn't already been posted and can you make sure the instructions aren't vague as I intend to follow them to the letter. I don't have enough money to place a bet on it but I am confident that when I have made the curry to your instructions it will neither have the taste or the smell of a restaurant curry. I would genuinely love to be proved wrong. ;)
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Its basicly the same as ive always made since my last demo but im always tweaking it to try and copy differnent takeaway styles.? I don't think that following the recipe to the letter will make that much differnce if the technique is wrong.
I still use this version here for the base and curry with some alterations:
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=179.0
For the base I add a 2" piece of cream coconut and sometimes a stick of celery if I have it I don't find it makes a big difference and a small bunch of fresh corriander at the end just before blending.
For the curry im currently adding in a small amount of pre-cooked green pepper and onion along with a slice of tomato which is what I get in my vindlaoo from one of the local places near me.?
I still think that if you use a good base, any of the tried and tested ones from here and cook the curry in this order you can't go wrong:
Heat oil, fry garlic/garlic & ginger puree for a min or 2, add tom puree for a further min, add spices and fry for about a min, add gravy ladle at a time stiring in, add pre-cooked ingredients, add fresh corriander\methi if required stir in heat through and done.? I usualy taste as I go along and adjust the salt accordingly.
I don't think its worth putting more accurate timing than a min or 2 becuase it depends on the situation, how high is the flame, how much oil is in the pan, how hot is the oil, how much garlic&ginger etc.. you just have to judge it.? This is why I think if you can get a demo from a chef its more valuable than any thing else!
Just to add if you find it too bland you can try adding a bit more spice, I like a lot of sauce with mine so tend to add a bit more g&g puree and an extra tsp of spice mix to balance it out.? I know what I like so tailor it just for me which im sure is part of the reason im more critical of some takeaway currys that I have now, its got to be fantastic or it will be like, mines better than this!!
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Hey Yellow Fingers Ive got 28 bags of Curry Base ( you were right ;D )
Curry King i agree there is enough info on this site to produce a standard quality Take-away style Curry, now that Ive been to more Take-away`s ( I'm surprised how low the average standard is & if you follow many recipes here you will be making really nice quality curries).
My chicken is better than any Bir i have ever visited.
But we all have different tastes & preferences .
I will be honest i 100% prefer my latest Curry ( many colleagues at my workplace offer to pay for me to cook them a curry to bring in to work to eat, that for me speaks volumes !!) . & i will honestly say i love my Curries !!.
I`m in Curry heaven DARTHPHALL........ ;D 8)
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I use a far simpler test. When I make a curry I put one portion in the fridge and the next day I open it up and sniff. Every curry I have ever had from a restaurant always has the distinct smell the next day even when cold..
That's it exactly.
I have smelt my "successful" curries the next day and that's when I knew they weren't quite right.
They smell too vegetably, too like a stew.
Restauraunt curry still has that wonderful aroma.
And it's this we are all chasing.
I've done the flambeing quite well
Big flames.
But no real difference to taste
It really stinks the house out though and smells VERY restaurant like.
I have seen demos where they produce curries, without flames, that had the taste
What I want to do is create that incredibly strong restaurant smell
Maybe working in desertspoons of spices isn't enough
Restaurants use far more
When you are adding bags full at a time, it must create a far more intense aroma, even if it is for a much larger quantity of sauce.
What we still need is a witnessed "start to finish" of the full scale base
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I remember curries from over 20 years ago tasting fantastic and I've not managed to replicate some of these historic favorites of mine. I reckon I've had more success recently as many BIRs tend to be very similar in my opinion - I suspect there is more consistency now that chefs/recipes move around from place to place.
I'm totally convinced we are using all the right ingredients already, but we're using the wrong quantity or method.
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Another thing Ive noticed is how quickly my spices lose that fresh smell, a Take-away will always be using up its spices perhaps this play`s a small part in the extra strong smell/flavor.
I`ve had my extra hot Chilli powder for 4 months & i would consider it time to throw it away, i will definitely be buying in smaller amounts even if it costs a little extra.
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Tend to agree with Darthphall...check out this info -
It's a fact that the fresher the spices and seasonings are, the more aromatic and flavorful your meals and baked treats will be. But just how do you know if your spices and herbs are fresh?
1) Sight - Check to see that the color of your spices and herbs is vibrant. If the color has faded, chances are the flavor has too.
2) Smell - Rub or crush the spice or herb in your hand. If the aroma is weak, it's time to replace it.
3) Taste - Rub or crush the spice or herb in your hand. If the flavor isn't apparent, it's time to replace it.
After purchasing fresh and flavorful spices and herbs from your grocery store, proper storage will prolong their freshness. Here are some suggested storage and usage tips:
Keep them away from heat, moisture, and direct sunlight. This means avoid storing spices and herbs over the stove, dishwasher, sink or near a window.
* Keep spices and herbs stored in tightly closed bottles after each use.
*Instead of sprinkling spices and herbs directly from the bottle over a steaming pot, measure spices into a bowl or cup and then add them to the pot. Sprinkling spices and herbs over a steaming pot will hasten flavor loss and could result in caking.
* Be sure to use a completely dry measuring spoon when dipping it into a spice bottle, as moisture will make the contents deteriorate.
* Members of the red pepper family, including paprika and chili powder, will retain their color and remain fresher when stored in the refrigerator.
If you store your spice products properly, here's a guideline of how long they may last.
SPICES
Ground Spices 2-3 years
Whole Spices 3-4 years
HERBS 1-3 years
SEEDS 3-4 years
SEASONING BLENDS 1-2 years
EXTRACTS 4 years
One handy way to monitor the age of your spices and herbs is to take a felt tip pen and put the date on the label or lid when you first open the bottle.
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I have not had a BIR curry but have been reading how everyone is missing that special taste/smell. I wonder if they reuse the oil that they fry with. Has anyone seen if they use fresh oil or if it could be oil that pokodas or other appetizers could have been fried in and rebottled? After deep frying, I use up the oil in my cooking rather than refrying in it. I notice my food has a different taste in it - especially if I fried something that had garlic or onion in it. It gave my food a very "heavy" taste that reminded me of an indian restaurant. I am probably the last person to try to find the secret as I have not eaten a "curry" here in the UK but am trying to think what in indian cooking may help in giving a restaurant type flavor and smell. I am intrigued that this idea of duplicating a restaurant recipe has turned out to be such a mystery. I may just have to go eat a "curry" to see what you are all talking about ;D
Payal
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I remember curries from over 20 years ago tasting fantastic and I've not managed to replicate some of these historic favorites of mine.
Now there's a funny thing! I thought I was the only one to think curries years ago were somehow different to what we get nowadays. It is hard to describe but my recollection was they were extremely rich, very deep flavouring, all different and I could never finish a whole dish as it was too "heavy" for me. Perhaps this sounds odd but what we get now is much blander, sauces with a very mild taste and most dishes tasting like all the others. So what's happened then???
There was just one restaurant not far from me that served me up a Vindaloo that took me back to the seventies. I should have grilled them what their "secret" was but didn't. Ah well, never mind.
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I may just have to go eat a "curry" to see what you are all talking about ; Payal
Yes, get yourself down to your local curry house and explore their menu. I think you will be surprised at what you taste and understand what we are all banging on about!
Just another thought has come to me. I was wondering if anyone roasts and grinds their spices?
Some recipe books insist this is the best way to handle spices. Most of us would perhaps use them straight from a manufactured packet but Indian Chef's have their own special spice mixes and roast them first. Maybe this would add to the overall flavour and taste? I personally buy whole spices and grind them in a coffee grinder but don't roast them first. The aroma is so fresh compared with ready ground stuff. If I have ever roasted them first it is obvious it radically changes the aroma and makes the spice more "pungent"
Any thought's on this ??
Ray
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Oh, the taste and aromas are so different when you dry roast the spices!! It is a must I feel. I read somewhere that some spices, like fenugreek seeds, are so hard that by dry roasting them, it makes them easier to grind. I dont make my own garam masala but roast and grind my own coriander powder, fenugreek powder and cumin powder. I always roast them on the stove until they turn a shade darker and start giving off their aromas - cool them - and then grind them. Cumin is perhaps the most important one in that when they call for roast cumin powder, it means to roast the cumin until it turns a deep shade of brown and then grinded. Other spices are not deepened in color like cumin is. The taste is 100% different when cumin seed is browned and ground! This weekend, I accidentally roasted the coriander seed too much and it turned brown but when ground, it gave off a totally different taste! But it is not meant to be browned because the classic coriander taste was lost when I did that. Give it a try and see what happens.
Payal
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I remember curries from over 20 years ago tasting fantastic and I've not managed to replicate some of these historic favorites of mine.
This is EXACTLY what my Dad says. He got hooked on curries in the 70s, and now he is 100% certain that BIR curries these days lack the magic and depth of flavour that they used to. I know what he means to a degree, when I started on curries back in the 80s as a kid, there did seem to be a much richer taste than you get in 95% of BIR places now.
TBH, I only really know of 2 BIRs that I enjoy eating at these days. The vast majority are bland, more tomatoey than anything vaguely Indian.
When it comes to making BIR food at home, it's hard as most BIR food these days is pretty bad, and I'm really trying to copy the specific flavour from 2 places. I'm pretty much like everyone else here. I get 95% of the way there 95% of the time, and every now and then hit jackpot - but then can't repeat it.
I cook more trad Indian food anyway these days, Madhur Jaffrey type stuff.
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What are the 2 curry shops that you do like ? They sound like they are worth visiting...
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Ive just returned from holiday for a week and took 2 single portion curries with me that I cooked before hand, the base I used was the one for pre cooking lamb from the 100 balti's book (this pre cooks meat and then you use whats left as a base sauce) but I used beef instead and added an extra onion.
I microwaved the meals and they turned out pretty much perfect, it makes such a difference eating a curry that you havent just cooked. I think the 1 thing they lacked was a smell quite as strong as my local BIR but the taste was definitely there.
The base from the balti book smelled amazing as it was cooking, I believe ray has posted an excerpt from this book which contains the chicken pre cooking & base sauce method which is very close to the meat one, I cooked the beef for 1 hour in the oven http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=442.0
My cooking technique is as follows: I use a wok I bought from my local asian grocer on my 3.3Kw wok ring at the highest heat setting. I start with frying the garlic/ginger puree then add pre fried onions (fry with a pinch of turmeric on medium-low for 10-15 mins), spice mixture and salt. Fry for a minute or so then add pasata & pre cooked meat.Fry for a min then add a ladle of base sauce. At this point it splutters like mad and often flames up. I then add a pinch of methi leaf, chopped coriander and more base sauce.
cheers
Mark
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Hi Mark,
You seem to be getting on pretty well with the 100 Best Book! Have you made the basic sauce or the "Rolls Royce" version and if so what are your comments on them compared with the pre-cooked sauce method.
Regards
Ray G
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Hi Ray,
Yes I really rate this book, very good. I have only tried the pre cook lamb base sauce (using beef) and that was extremely good, only made enough base sauce for 2 generous portions though ;D
cheers
Mark
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Hi Mark,
The pre-cooked base's are the only ones I didn't try so following the thumbs up from you will add them to the list.
Ray
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The lamb one has 2 onions, when I tried it I thought 2 wasnt enough so went for 3 like the pre cook chicken base
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Last night i made the nicest curry i can remember using "all purpose seasoning"(salt mixture
I froze some curries using "all pupose seasoning"
I had one last night and they really did have something extra about them.
Maybe msg does make a difference
It wasn't apparent at the time of cooking, but then again it often isn't
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I just cooked a basic chicken balti using the 100 baltis chicken sauce and precook and it was really good, I eat it straight from cooking and it was still very good. I also added 1 TSP of MSG to the base.