Curry Recipes Online
Beginners Guide => Hints, Tips, Methods and so on.. => Cooking Methods => Topic started by: joshallen2k on January 05, 2010, 03:53 AM
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I thought I would repost some of the latter discussion from an earlier thread I started on Chicken Vindaloo. I thought it was important to get some input on a new base and technique I've recently been working with, since I was particularly happy with the results.
]It's a shame you haven't had a response from the originator (yet). Hopefully they will permit you/us to post more specific details soon (and hopefully they will be willing to join in discussions on, what is, a different and interesting technique)
But, in the meantime, would I be right in saying that the "technique" roughly involves:
- a rudimentary base, containing about 400ml, or so, of oil, in a total volume of base of about 2 or 3 litres
- using no extra oil, at the cooking stage, but adding some of the base (200ml, or so), together with about a tablespoon, or so, of spice mix (similar to Bruce Edward's) and garlic, ginger and salt and boiling that, for several minutes, until it really reduces, the water has gone and the oil separates from it
- adding more base (about 200ml, or so) and chilli powder (to taste), tomato paste, dried fenugreek (and other pre-fried ingredients, such as onions, chillies, capsicums and meat)
- seasoning with salt and sugar (to taste)
- adding chopped coriander
- simmering until the right consistency is obtained?
And would I be right in saying that the interesting differences with this technique, compared to what might me called "normal practice" are that:
- the base has lots of oil (which is left in the base)
- no oil is added at the main dish cooking stage (it comes from the base)
- the spices aren't fried, as such, but are added to the boiling base
- the first amount of base (plus spices) is thoroughly reduced until the oil separates
- chilli powder is not added until later in the process (together with additional base)?
Anything (in general) that I've missed Josh?
]Yes, that's pretty well it.
The single biggest difference is in the reduction of the starting base, with no starting oil.
After boiling away the initial base, you are left with caramelized base vegetables, decent oil, and well fried, but inherently non-burnt spices. It looks very similar to the "usual" method after the initial reduction.
I do have some questions about the method, primarily:
- why the chilli powder (and possibly the methi) isn't added with the original spice mix in the reduction stage
- why the tomato puree isn't added as part of the reduction, or added before the second base stage starts
- how the method could be applied to sweeter curries, like CTM and korma
I suppose I could experiment with the above, but it would be beneficial to have the originator comment if the above have already been explored.
-- Josh
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Photos of curries Josh made using this technique can be found here:
- Bhuna: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4110.msg37562#msg37562 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4110.msg37562#msg37562)
- Madras: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4105.msg37563#msg37563 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4105.msg37563#msg37563)
- Vindaloo: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4148.msg37561#msg37561 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4148.msg37561#msg37561)
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Josh,
it sounds to me a derivative of what i call "slowboat" cooking.
i have in the past compared "slowboat" and "toffee". for soft spice dishes ie CTM both produce similar result. for hard spice dishes ie madras there is no comparison.
slowboat for me uses std base & ingredients and just chucks everything in at the start and u simmer till the oil starts to surface.
frying the chilli as BE stated is now for me too a crucial life factor.
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it sounds to me a derivative of what i call "slowboat" cooking.
I'm not so sure about that Jerry. This is, quite specifically, using a base, which has lots of oil, with no additional oil being used for the main dish, and reducing an initial amount of the base (about 200ml, with the spice mix added), very significantly, before adding any more base, or other ingredients. The oil from the base appears to caramelise the initial ingredients and cooks the spices (as Josh says).
Other than that, tha technique is pretty quick (about 10 minutes, or so, to a final curry)...so not "slow boat" at all (albeit, not fierce heat either).
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CA,
slowboat for me is around 20mins with everything added at the start including the dish oil and cooked at a gentle simmer.
there are a lot of if's and but's - i still feel it's a derivative of slowboat. the differentiator between the 2 methods for me is smoke which has a significant effect on taste.
i do add 1 chef of base with the spices as std and see this as important (there is an existing post by someone that alerted me to it). the importance for me being in protecting the spices.
i'm sceptical about the value of the oil in the base being of use. i find it takes long in the cooking to release. u may as well just add it separately like we do already.
don't get me wrong i'm not trying to poo poo. i'm all for trying something new. i'm just not getting 4 as the answer.
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I'm not convinced Jerry, but maybe the originator is best placed to say whether it differs and, if so, how...... ;)
However, I think I'm right in saying that both Josh and PaulP have used it to good effect (as Josh's photos clearly indicate) 8)
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I'm just eating some leftovers from last night for my lunch at work. All I can say is it tastes good!!
I'm not sure if this is a good cooking technique or whether it is simply a good well-balanced recipe in terms of the spice mix and base composition.
I could well believe that if the oil in the base was reduced and added back at cooking time, and the same ingredients were used for a more traditional style cooking technique that it may well taste exactly the same.
What I would say though is that this is easy to make with not much chance of ruining the dish through burning. Just a pity we can't (as yet) publish the recipe for other cr0 members to try out and evaluate.
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Curry is still a stew no matter what spin you want to put on it. I'm not convinced at all that frying at light speed and packing a dish in 6 mins or less produces what I like to eat in my food? On the contrary I've found that the longer I cook it the better it gets.
Of course they can't do that in a rushed kitchen but its a curry stew by any other name, just made quicker by doing different parts of it before hand then adding them all when they are needed, plus a few additions here and there.
I wish you guys could taste a spinach dish over here. It's just phenomenal, it really is. That's about spice and contents, not speed cooking.
Just my take of course peeps. Interesting thread.
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Curry is still a stew no matter what spin you want to put on it
Not really, is it Mikka? The difference is the spices and how you get the flavour out of them, surely? Which implies frying rather than (or as much as) "stewing".
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Yah.
What I mean is though that after that frying of spices there is no need to conjure up quick fired pace and throw everything into a container, seal it then reopen it seconds later and pretend Lol! ;D
You know what I mean? ;) ;D
Not really, is it Mikka? The difference is the spices and how you get the flavour out of them, surely? Which implies frying rather than (or as much as) "stewing".
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whether it differs and, if so, how...... ;
CA,
it clearly does differ.
i've not tried what is being suggested. i have tried much in terms of technique.
i've recently been trying to think where my gaps are (to BIR). this is not one of them (for me).
in short - i've hit a wall (and probably a few others have too) - will this really bridge our remaining gaps.
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will this really bridge our remaining gaps.
Maybe, maybe not Jerry. I suppose it depends on the individual and their perceived "gaps". Nevertheless, as I understand it, this is the method used by a real BIR chef from a real BIR.
I have also tried it and it produces decent tasting BIR curries. As such, I'm sure many members would be keen to replicate the results. I feel that it's worthy of further exploration/discussion/debate accordingly.
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CA,
we should collectively write a book on our exploits - it would sell for sure.
i can't get my blinkers off on this one. i think that malik vindaloo video has sent me down the sceptic helter skelter and i've not reached the bottom yet.
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I would agree. Its all about what you are trying to achieve, and whether this brings you closer, or further away. For me, it was closer.
Regarding the "slowboat" technique, I question this for many of the same reasons why I asked why the chilli is added later to the liquid base. The single biggest breakthrough for me in BIR cookery (other than use of a base) was the importance of spice frying. Kinda flies against the slowboat technique, not that that cannot produce a great result - I admit I have not tried it.
If the new technique specified "add the spices after the second lot of base", then I would compare it with the slowboat. I need to do some more experimenting. The biggest problem with experimentation is doing so when you are already getting good results...
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Josh,
an explanation on my journey might help on my blinkers.
after joining the site i spent months perfecting the hot frying technique ie toffee. the SnS and BE posts got me onto trying the slowboat approach. so did the malik web cam. spottymaldoon was however my saviour getting me to realise the importance of emulsification (the oil & spice frying trials). parker's camping stove, CA's burner and robust discussion in the myth's convinced me to invest in kw's. i then spent months following CA's instructions yet failing miserably. i still can't fathom out the why but matter's not.
as u say experimentation has it's limits of endurance
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Edited by CA:
Mick's/Taz's Curry Base Gravy can be found here: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4163.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4163.0)
Mick's/Taz's Mix Powder can be found here: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4164.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4164.0)
Mick's/Taz's Dopiaza recipe can be found here: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4165.msg37738#msg37738 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4165.msg37738#msg37738)
Posts relating to these topics have been moved the the relevant thread above. I hope this makes things clearer rather than more confusing! :P
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What wonderful posts AchMal.
Thank you very much indeed. ;D
I don't see anything strange in this at all to be honest. That's the way I prefer to cook so I can monitor and taste stuff. I know it wouldn't work in a restaurant but hang on a minute why not? All we see is Chinese style flash frying on videos yet the traditional way is just about spot on with your post.
My meals over here are usually not that saucy which is a pity which again makes me look at your post with some interest frankly. I don't have any base left and I'm getting goat I hope soon so this will be my very first stop into cooking again.
Nice one. ;D
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Thanks a lot Mick (Achmal) - this will give us something to talk about.
I'm now a Taz convert until I find something better and will be cooking one this evening.
Much appreciated :D
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Achmal, have i just read that you have a curry shed?? like a shed for cooking Curry!!.. in sted of somewhere of putting your lawn mower??
fascinated i am
and you got a bir chef cooking in there??
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Achmal, have i just read that you have a curry shed?? like a shed for cooking Curry!!.. in sted of somewhere of putting your lawn mower??
fascinated i am
and you got a bir chef cooking in there??
Yes UB,
I have a 12 x 8 feet shed that I have set up as a kitchen where I can cook curries whenever I want, I have too much stuff to keep in the household kitchen,
I had a friend visit who is equally as curry mad as I am and I managed to persuade my local t/a chef to give us a demo of making his gravy and cooking us a curry,
If I knew how to post images on here you could see it,
Mick
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Achmal, have i just read that you have a curry shed?? like a shed for cooking Curry!!.. in sted of somewhere of putting your lawn mower??
fascinated i am
and you got a bir chef cooking in there??
Yes UB,
I have a 12 x 8 feet shed that I have set up as a kitchen where I can cook curries whenever I want, I have too much stuff to keep in the household kitchen,
I had a friend visit who is equally as curry mad as I am and I managed to persuade my local t/a chef to give us a demo of making his gravy and cooking us a curry,
If I knew how to post images on here you could see it,
Mick
mate please see link
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3885.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3885.0)
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Cheers UB,
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/c4fb747b18b89c7f7bd75c76218f6cca.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#c4fb747b18b89c7f7bd75c76218f6cca.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/1c57730b8cedb1d1f4e599330655bc9a.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#1c57730b8cedb1d1f4e599330655bc9a.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/ac969c8508927bc2f2f682229717ed6c.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#ac969c8508927bc2f2f682229717ed6c.jpg)
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AchMal your a actual legend!! that dedication for you 8)
I'm real busy at the min but will get back to this thread, cheers UB
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Achmal,
simply fantastic - both the shed and the posts on this new method.
it does sound real good. i am at peace with my high Kw output and other aspects are niggling me more.
i do wish u and the method well.
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Gobsmackin'!
Respect
CoR
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ok mick is correct - i stay above a BIR - Takeaway - food is amazing - Now they put 2 chef spoons of sauce and extra stuff in the madras they made me , i noticed methi which was last in the pot and wot looked like a mixture of spices and looked like 2 tablespoons worth , i may be a newbie ~( CA ) but have been eating curries for years , i live in Scotland , Glasgow , and i know u aint from here lol, so enjoy reading the posts lol , ps Glasgow has been voted the top curries place on earth for a good few yrs !! its all about Heat, i have watched them cook, its got to be alot of heat !!! youtube will show u , i asked the guy below me, he wont give it up lol
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ok mick is correct
What are you saying that Mick is correct about gazman? Or did you mean to refer to Jerry's comment about using high heat?
By the way Mick, that IS a very pristine shed! So clean and tidy! 8) Surely that's before you cooked your first curry in it! :P
PS: I can't see your tandoor? ;)
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Yes Cory, the picture of the shed itself was immediately after construction,
The other pictures are when it was rigged and ready to go,
it looks a little more lived in these days ::)
Re: the tandoor, I'm no bricklayer and it probably shows but it looks better now that the mortar staining has gone,
Mick
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/3b822e4e1fb0d3675113b65b3a7e6983.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#3b822e4e1fb0d3675113b65b3a7e6983.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/94791725a2703ad083817c5fd2444ad4.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#94791725a2703ad083817c5fd2444ad4.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/9788eea7690d1a08dab2136629bf258e.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#9788eea7690d1a08dab2136629bf258e.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/c653cd3d9c2cc2b5c66e5f118f8d9afa.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#c653cd3d9c2cc2b5c66e5f118f8d9afa.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/0cd0572ed34dd05b0253cdf075addcbb.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#0cd0572ed34dd05b0253cdf075addcbb.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/c51d929441f28b0f21f43ebf827f9af0.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#c51d929441f28b0f21f43ebf827f9af0.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/e8c8a998cc7d5887a9d8e8182513e540.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#e8c8a998cc7d5887a9d8e8182513e540.jpg)
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Nice job Achmal 8)
Next on my project "to do" list
(just made a biltong box...works a treat! :P)
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Mick,
That's simply fantastic, where did you get the info on building the Tandoor?
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That is one awesome tandoor and the brick work looks great for a non brickie. How long ago did you build this and how has it worked out after use?
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Mick,
That's simply fantastic, where did you get the info on building the Tandoor?
Thanks Axe,
There are different types of home build tandoor ideas on the net, it was seeing some of these ideas and seeing "real" tandoors in restaurant kitchens that made me realise that a good sized upturned pot with the base removed would do the trick,
The pot sits on a firebrick base with a vermiculite concrete insulation,
Mick
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That is one awesome tandoor and the brick work looks great for a non brickie. How long ago did you build this and how has it worked out after use?
Thanks Stephen,
I built this at the back end of last summer and it was used several times before the weather turned,
I use whats sold at my local Asian cash and carry as Restaurant Charcoal, it works out at about 3.50 quid per session,
I fire it up and leave it for a couple of hours, this ensures it reaches its highest temperature which in turn burns off any soot on the pot from the initial lighting,
It is literally too hot to work with before this time, there is no way you can put your arm in to stick a naan to the side, it is certainly hot enough to sit a wok over the top and cook a curry,
The pot cracked as expected but this causes no issues, I use a metal plate/tin as a heat baffle, the skewers stand in this, all I can say is the tikka, skeek kebabs and naan are excellent,
Once you have had a couple of goes of learning the ropes on its use, it really is fun,
Mick
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a good sized upturned pot with the base removed would do the trick
Mick - do you mean a standard (allbeit large) terracotta pot from a garden centre?
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a good sized upturned pot with the base removed would do the trick
Mick - do you mean a standard (allbeit large) terracotta pot from a garden centre?
Yes Stephen,
I looked for one large enough that had the right shape,
It cost about 30 quid but worth it,
Mick