Curry Recipes Online
British Indian Restaurant Recipes - Starters & Side Dishes => Starters & Side Dishes => Tandoori and Tikka => Topic started by: pforkes on January 13, 2010, 02:46 AM
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Having watched the finale of Gordon Ramsay's F-Word, last week, I decided I'd give Lasan's chicken tandoori a shot. 22 out of 25 diners said they would pay for it.
I'm not doing the salad that it came with, and I am only doing chicken thighs. Also, I am being brave and instead of doing just 4 chicken thighs, I'm doing 15, so I have quadrupled all if the quantities of ingredients, given below.
I scoured Las Vegas looking for mustard oil, and would you believe that if I had gone to my source for ALL things Indian (The New India Market supermarket) then I would have saved myself a trip all over Las Vegas.
I have photos of the chicken drumsticks, at the start of the overnight marinating. It looks (and smells) good.
Part two will be posted tomorrow and photos will follow.
Lasan's with tandoori style masala
4 chicken supremes, skinned and scored
4 chicken drumsticks, skinned and scored
1st stage Tandoori marinade:
1 tsp salt
1/2 tsp garlic puree
1/2 tsp ginger puree
1 lime juice
2nd stage Tandoori marinade
3 tbsp Greek yoghurt
2 green chilies, finely chopped
1-inch piece of ginger, peeled and finely chopped
1 handful chopped coriander
1 tsp black salt
3/4 tbsp ground cumin
1 tsp garam masala
1 tbsp tandoori masala
1/2 tsp ground fennel seeds
1 pinch white pepper
50ml mustard oil
Directions
Trim the thin end of the drumstick by cutting the sinew, scraping the meat halfway down the bone towards the thick end of the drumstick.
Blanch the chicken in simmering water infused with turmeric, salt and mild red chili powder for 3-5 minutes and remove using a slotted spoon and let the meat cool down.
To then marinate the chicken, dry the pieces and sprinkle with salt. Rub with garlic and ginger paste and a squeeze of lime and leave to marinade for 30 minutes.
Add 3 tablespoons of yoghurt into a large bowl, add all the 2nd stage tandoori spice ingredients and massage into the chicken, then leave to marinade overnight.
To cook
Heat a frying pan with a small amount of oil then place the marinated drumstick in to seal for 1 minute on each side followed by the scored chicken breasts and again cook for a minute on each side. Place the browned chicken pieces in the pre-heated oven and roast for 6-8 minutes, turn the chicken pieces now and again to ensure they cook evenly.
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Here is the photo of the chicken with tandoori masala, before being marinated overnight:
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/89c8986092c87b8821a9aeba1f146cb2.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#89c8986092c87b8821a9aeba1f146cb2.JPG)
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pforkes.. and the result??
Some serious tandoori going on there...
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I will know the result tomorrow...right now it is marinating overnight.
Tomorrow it will be cooked...and eaten.
I will be able to tell you in 24 hours, but so far it looks and smell good.
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That does look good! It can be a pain getting the skin off the chicken legs, I find when making tandoori chicken.
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How I do it might sound weird, but it works.
First, cut the skin from around the thin end of the thigh.
Pull it back as far as I can (by hand). Then I use a pair of wide pliers, grip the loose skin and pull it off - usually in one piece and in one go.
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Hi Pforkes,
No it doesn't sound weird. I usually have to use kitchen roll to allow me to grip the skin as it gets really slippy after handling the chicken. I'll bear that in mind next time I skin some chicken legs, thanks.
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pforkes,
real good post - i have it in my mind to make this. i'm even thinking of a trip to brum depending on how my efforts turn out.
mustard oil is something i've not tried before and will need to purchase too.
looking fwd to your verdict.
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Can I ask the reason for blanching the chicken before marinating? Doesn't this seal the meet which would make it more difficult for the marinade to penetrate?
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The blanching with turmeric in the water adds a yellow tinge to the chicken (which looks good). Maybe it is also partially cooking it and I am guessing the chili will give it a slight kick.
I should be able to tell you in a few hours when I cook it and try it.
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Damn! This WAS good.
I'm not a big chicken tandoori fan (it's normally too dry for my liking) but this was moist and boy, the only way I can describe how it smells is F***ING AMAZING!
I cooked 8 of the 16 chicken thighs and although I wasn't that hungry this evening, I have already eaten 5 of them, and I know that later this evening I will finish off the remaining 3.
The meat itself was both moist and flavourful. This is a definite improvement of any previous tandoori chicken I have cooked.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/f0f76f3d33d4ee354784d0d4f6fa90f3.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#f0f76f3d33d4ee354784d0d4f6fa90f3.JPG)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/afaf0e82f5c70acd4381e2499c12e131.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#afaf0e82f5c70acd4381e2499c12e131.JPG)
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pforkes - that does look very good! Can you compare it to any of the tandoori recipes off this site?
Which brings me to my next question - is there any difference between tikka and tandoori when it comes to marinade? Would this work for a tikka (breast chunks) marinade?
Oh, and can someone advise what "chicken supreme" is? Thighs?
-- Josh
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pforkes - that does look very good! Can you compare it to any of the tandoori recipes off this site?
This is better than any chicken tandoori I have had before.
I don't recall having made chicken tandoori using any recipes on this board.
Give this one a try. I was impressed and I'll be making this again, soon. Specifically, this was VERY moist and VERY flavourful.
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Those look really good pforkes 8) nice colour. I am going to have to give it a go when I find some mustard oil.
cheers
Will
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looks lovley, i fuxing cant stand gordon ramsay but i have to give this recipe a go.
im assuming it will be just as good with diced chicken breast.
what the heck is black salt, never heard of it?
and mustard oil, is this available in the supermarkets?
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Hi
Firstly Joshallen chicken supreme is a breast portion but to be more accurate is not a total breast but the lower half bone in with the wing trimmed but still attached. Some come as whole breast portions with wing trimmed though, it just depends on how critical you are. Willy and Jimmy mustard oil is normally stocked in the hair care section of Asian stores and black salt will be available to with the general groceries.
Regards
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Very nice, and relatively easy too. Just a lot of waiting around for marinating. The next Madras I make, I think I will pre-cook cubes of chicken like this to go in.
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Hi Guy's
Just a note on mustard oil, this is readily available from Asian supermarkets. The weird thing is, if you check the label on the back of the bottle, it will say "for external use only" I did ask the shop owner about this and he said that it was fine for consumption, and that he uses it in his tandoori marinades.
Just thought I would point that out incase you try looking for "edible mustard oil"
Ray
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what the heck is black salt, never heard of it?
Here in Las Vegas Ihttp://www.SonaSpicesUSA.com (http://www.SonaSpicesUSA.com) was able to get black salt at the local Indian supermarket.
It's actually pinkish in colour. The brand I bought was SONA (SONA Spices U.S.A. Inc.)
Their website is http://www.SonaSpicesUSA.com (http://www.SonaSpicesUSA.com) (though this probably isn't very helpful) and it's actually labelled "black salt powder" and came in a 7 oz bag.
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The weird thing is, if you check the label on the back of the bottle, it will say "for external use only"
When I got home, I noticed that the 250 ml bottle I had bought said the same thing, bit I though 'what the heck?' and went ahead and used it.
The Indian supermarket where I bought mine also had 'virgin mustard oil' but since it was double the price, I opted for the cheaper option. I may try the virgin version next time, as I used 200ml of the 250ml in the first batch (since I made 4 times the quantity).
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Hi pforkes,
I've never seen virgin mustard oil but tha standard stuff works fine. If you are worried about it being for external use only, I wouldn't. The quantities that you will consume will be very little indeed, especially if you are using in a marinade. There are far worse things that we intake than mustard oil ;D
Ray
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pforkes, I am going to give this a go. Just checked my cupboards and found both black salt and mustard oil. :D
Quick question - roughly right, what was the amount of water used for the blanching, and how much salt, turmeric and chilli was added to the water?
Cheers,
Josh
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Basically, I put the chicken into a pot, covered it with water (plus a couple of extra inches) and then added equal amounts of salt, turmeric and chilli.
Since I made 15 drumsticks, I added 1 tablespoon of each of the salt, turmeric and chilli. This seemed to work well enough and is how I would do it again.
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PS I just had two more drumsticks for breakfast (cold)...guess what I will be having for lunch!
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lol, save some for supper ;D
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pforkes, I've got a batch marinating overnight. Got some good pics to share.
The black salt and the mustard oil make for a nasty smell. A few hours in the fridge, and its pretty much subsided.
Question though -- there is no way that a 5 minute blanching, 1 minute on each side fry, and 5 minute oven bake will cook these through. I did a quick test baking a drumstick early and it was not fully done.
Did you follow the 5-1-5 as the recipe dictates, or did you extend the final bake?
My chicken breasts are huge. I'm thinking at least 12 minutes final bake at 400F
What did you do?
-- Josh
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My chicken breasts are huge. I'm thinking at least 12 minutes final bake at 400F
What did you do?
-- Josh
The cooking time does seem too short, especially if using chicken with bones. I would have thought even small chicken legs would need at least 15 minutes in a very hot oven.
Even longer for huge chicken breasts ::)
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Did you follow the 5-1-5 as the recipe dictates, or did you extend the final bake?
The recipe says to bake for "6-8 minutes" NOT 5-minutes.
I baked them for 8-minutes and they turned out fine.
If the chicken breast you are using are huge, then I'd suggest cutting them in half, or increasing the baking time.
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The recipe says to bake for "6-8 minutes" NOT 5-minutes.
Ah OK. I somewhere had it in my head it was 5. Guess that was the boiling water stage.
I will let you know how it goes. Those huge breasts will be waiting for me when I get home.
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Those huge breasts will be waiting for me when I get home.
Lucky you ;)
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Those huge breasts will be waiting for me when I get home.
Lucky you too ;D
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i've got this on the go at the mo.
what's the general consensus on it. i'm a tad sceptical that it's going to be much better than existing recipes other than for the mustard oil. the cumin/fennel ratio (4:1) is not sitting well.
i wish i'd made the marinade before adding to the chicken so i could have tasted it.
ps should tikka and tandoori marinades be the same - this recipe is for tandoori but does not seem that different to tikka.
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You should find that it will be more moist, because of 'par boiling' it first.
I've made this twice, now, and have had better results thatI got with previous recipes. Not hugely better, but better, all the same.
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pforkes,
thanks for thoughts.
i did not par boil first so will be interesting. i used the method that i normally do - stage 1 for me being just leave the meat in a bowl with red mild chilli (deggi), salt and lemon juice (i did use lime this time) for at least 1 hr.
the mustard oil is really ponging the fridge.
going to be interesting how it turns out.
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I am making this this weekend, I think the parboiling it may make a difference. Do you think it softens the chicken before the marination so more flavour gets into it? I will look forward to hearing how yours turned out Jerry without the parboil. Think the wife might get upset if it pongs the fridge out tho ;D
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Willyeckerslike,
u will need to "double bag it" (cling film then a carrier bag).
i always marinate for 3 days. i also cook my plain chicken (none tikka but using the ashoka marinade) by very quick par boil. so a tad sceptical whilst acknowledging the lasan must do it for some reason (i just can't fathom why).
will post on thursday how it turns out.
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Hi
Par boiling the chicken will stiffen the meat plus flush(the scum stage of meat cooking).
Regards
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commis,
many thanks for explanation. do u think the par boil would seal the meat slightly and lower the effect of the marinade.
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Remember, when par boiling you are cooking it with turmeric, chilli and salt, all of which are going to affect its flavour as well.
Really, this (in my opinion) is the most significant difference between how I had used to cook tandoori chicken, so by not using this step you're not going to get that difference.
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pforkes,
i did leave out the turmeric but i left the fresh chicken in the salt, deggi and lime juice for 0.5 hr - this is normal practise for me although i normally use lemon juice (now dressing) and leave it for 3 hrs. this time i also added the ginger and garlic at the same time which i normally add in the 2nd stage.
i realise i've strayed away from the recipe but the existing method (i use) produces top notch result (tikka). i do parboil (~5 mins tops) the ashoka plain chicken (which is actually marinated) but i've felt in the past that the meat needs to marinade 1st.
if it don't work out then i will have to follow it to spec for sure. i thinking of a trip to the lasan so i'd really like it to work.
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awesome. even my good lady felt it was very good.
there's a tad too much salt in it for my liking and the mustard oil can be reduced. other than that - speechless.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/976ef15069193d85563f85e546cbd14e.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#976ef15069193d85563f85e546cbd14e.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/a0bb3265f132c44ba74ada73645ecfe7.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#a0bb3265f132c44ba74ada73645ecfe7.jpg)
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This looks bloody delish Jerry! ;D
Well done....
I have the chicken in the freezer for the tandoori Ramsey style. We don't get chicken breasts with bones in them as a rule here so apart from me quartering one I doubt that will happen due to waste unless I use the whole bird which is different to the actual recipe.
Nice one. How did it taste? What wsa the biggest selling point on it please?
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I tried this too a few weeks back.
I too thought the tandoori flavour was excellent.
However, I did not gel with the mustard oil or the black salt. I think half of it was mental, as I thought both of these ingredients stunk. I'm pretty sure the black salt sulphur smell subsided in cooking, but I could definitely taste the mustard oil, which I did not like.
I will try again and swap mustard oil for veg, and maybe dim down the black salt a little.
Top notch recipe though.
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How did it taste? What wsa the biggest selling point on it please?
very difficult to put in words. i make CA's tikka all the time and it's real good. this lasan recipe is very similar to CA's tikka. the difference is that the dish seems to come to life on u're taste buds. it also had something that put it on par with how my local TA's tikka tastes.
the black salt (actuallt pink in colour) and mustard oil are the 2 off ingredients i've not used before - i need to try them out individually to pin point what's making the difference. gut feeling says mustard oil.
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They look great Jerry, I am just off to see if I can find some mustard oil now :-\. Never seen any in the big supermarkets so I am off to the nearest Asian shop to see if they have any.
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Hi
JM, to answer your own question, did the par boil effect the marination? also please what cut of chicken are you using, bone in or out? Mikka, you could always spatchcock a whole bird that would give a really impressive result.
Regards
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However, I did not gel with the mustard oil or the black salt.
I will try again and swap mustard oil for veg, and maybe dim down the black salt a little.
Top notch recipe though.
Hi Josh
Try heating the mustard oil to almost smoking, you'll know when, then allow it to cool and try it that way, the taste changes, it loses the pungency and gains a sort of sweetness, it's good in veggie dishes and dahls.
Cheers
CoR.
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Try heating the mustard oil to almost smoking
Thanks for the pointer. I will try that next time.
I remember when I would smell the chicken as it sat in the marinade, I instantly would notice the mustard oil, and it wasn't pleasant.
Maybe doing as you suggest will take the edge off.
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did the par boil effect the marination? also please what cut of chicken are you using, bone in or out?
i left out the par boil as it's not my normal method. the chicken tasted more tender than normal - i can't imagine it get's any better. i did leave it marinating for 4 days c/w my norm 3 days but i think the mustard oil had a big effect.
the chicken is breast (to make the "kids" teenagers happy) otherwise my preference would have been to make tandoori as opposed to tikka version. the chicken is from farm foods and is excellent. (ps switched from asda smart when farm foods started their 3 for 10 pounds offer and the meat is far far better).
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Jen and i had this last night, bloody good recipe and i'll be making it again, i couldn't have told the difference between this and the stuff from a restaurant.
I am going to use a little less salt next time and maybe cut down on the Chilli.
But all in all excellent.
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Tried this last night and it was superb. Didnt have any black salt or mustard oil so I used normal oil and omitted the extra salt altogether. The tandoori masala is plenty salty enough anyway. Didnt par cook it either - just left it marinating for 24hrs in the fridge in a zip seal bag and gave it all a bit of a massage whenever I had the fridge door open ;)
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mickdabass,
how did it compare with u're norm.
i ask as i'm interested in what the black salt and mustard oil do (how much contribution compared to the rest of the recipe). i intend doing a side by side as some point.
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Hi Jerry
Its now my personal favorite. Up till now its been blades recipe but personally I prefer the Lasan recipe although I cut a few corners as outlined previously. Marinated some lamb last night. It looks excellent - cant wait to try it. Will let u know how I get on
Regards
Mick
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Hi Jerry
Its now my personal favorite.
mickdabass
It took me by surprise too. CA's is my fav (not actually made blades) and intend to do an fword take on it (ie black salt, mustard, fennel) to see how it compares. the aim is to try and pin point what makes the difference. will let u know too.
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Look forward to your results Jerry
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have got this test underway. i've made 1/2 portions of lasan, CA's and a test recipe.
the lasan is pretty much to spec (no std salt, no 1" ginger). CA's is changed by replacing normal salt with black salt (i also add a little tamerind and don't add the milk). i kept the oil unchanged as veg oil. the test is a sort of control using mustard oil and lime juice but no black salt or white pepper.
so far CA's tastes by far the best. the lasan tastes the worst.
i intend to leave overnight and taste again before adding the chicken.
ps the white blocks are frozen yogurt.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/1372e08e1dd0e431623b6e37594b1e19.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#1372e08e1dd0e431623b6e37594b1e19.jpg)
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Having done the Lasan version twice, I believe that the par-boiling steps is a crucial one, for the best texture and flavour...something it seems that many previously have missed out.
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pforkes,
i think it's down to how long u marinade - the par boil perhaps works for short marinade (i've not tried) but if u're leaving it for 3 days u get real good result without par boil. i do par boil my non tikka chicken though (more like a quick simmer but after a 24hr marinade).
ps this was the best tikka i've tasted but made the same way as i always use.
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Hi
Pforkes, Just a quick one having read this thread again I note that you said you placed the chicken in a pan with water. Was that cold water? because the recipe calls for blanching .
Regards
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You can see the exact steps that I currently use on this web page on my web site <http://www.peterforkes.com/PeterForkes/Recipes/TandooriChickenMasala.html (http://www.peterforkes.com/PeterForkes/Recipes/TandooriChickenMasala.html)>.
These pages on my web site are pretty much intended for my own use (it doesn't matter where I am I can always get access to my most recent set of steps for any given recipe), so the appropriate credits are not always given. Any how, you can see how I'm doing it...come to think of it, I think maybe I'l do this one again this weekend!
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Hi
Pforkes thanks for that, like the site idea. we will all have to bookmark it so we can keep an eye on you!
Regards
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i tasted the 3 off sample tonight after 24hrs sitting in the fridge (no chicken in them at this point). they all tasted quite different and clearly down to ingredients. there was no clear winner.
on just this tasting i can't see why the lasan recipe is so good. i'm now a tad sceptical on the black salt and mustard being the magic - it could just be down to the rest of the ingredients working better together. i'm picking up the white pepper in the lasan sample.
ps they all now taste pretty naff - far too salty - u can't believe that tikka will come out at the end of the conveyor belt.
the samples are now in the fridge till monday night with an occasional stir.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/8636b5a4753542c7420460b3603dc62e.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#8636b5a4753542c7420460b3603dc62e.jpg)
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Hi
JM, think the blanching is it. Cooked chicken with a lovely spicy coating?
Regards
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Hi Commis
I think it's duly down to the ingredients frankly. Yes do to your meat what you will? But at the end of the day it is what you taste?
Jerry you rock man. Excellent work.
Hi
JM, think the blanching is it. Cooked chicken with a lovely spicy coating?
Regards
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the lasan is pretty much to spec (no std salt, no 1" ginger). CA's is changed by replacing normal salt with black salt (i also add a little tamerind and don't add the milk). i kept the oil unchanged as veg oil. the test is a sort of control using mustard oil and lime juice but no black salt or white pepper.
I don't understand what it is you're trying to do here Jerry? You've changed the "Lasan" recipe. You've certainly changed mine beyond recognition (should I presume that you've also used some other tandoori masala rather than the one I specify?) and your "control"...well...what is it? It's not a "control", at all, is it?
What is it you're trying to establish, exactly, and why have you made so many significant changes?
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I don't think I'd be too happy tasting the marinade complete with raw chicken before it is cooked.
Paul.
...Whoops I missed the bit where Jerry said he tasted them before adding the chicken.
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CA,
i appreciate some people may feel i've changed your recipe by adding tamerind and not using milk. i feel it's still CA's recipe.
anyhow back to the question. i've made CA's tikka for ages now - i don't make anything else. it's simple brill as u know.
when i made the lasan it was quite different. hard to explain other than it seemed to come to life more than i've experienced before. i want to find out what caused this change. i would then add this "difference" into the CA recipe and then decide which i like best. i don't necessarily think the lasan as spec is the best but there is learning to be had.
the reason i've changed the lasan is that it was far too salty last time. i too am fan of using fresh ginger. i also know that using too much is not good. hence the reduction in the amount used in the lasan.
on the CA recipe i know u don't rate mustard oil so i restricted the changes to just black salt in place of cooking salt.
on the test recipe i used mustard oil and lime juice but no black salt.
i appreciate there are weaknesses in the approach but the results should help me further on identifying what this difference is. i may of course have to make more samples but that would be fine too.
if anyone can refine the approach to give a quicker result then i'm all in favour. we just need to find out what this difference is. white pepper has also crept up on the radar screen.
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I have never known Jerry to recreate any dish to spec lol
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billycat,
u're 100% spot on. i tell u it was real torture not changing the Kushi recipes that Razor posted - worked out real well too and i was well pleased i managed not to tinker.
even with the tinkering i'm still a firm believer of making to spec 1st time and then only making changes very slowly over a period of time.
obviously not for everyone as u have to accept quite a few failures along the journey.
almost every recipe book i have has little adjustments marked so it's not just curry.
all the best.
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Have you made this to spec Jerry? I thought you missed out the parboil bit in the spices? Just wondered ;)
I am still looking out for mustard oil to try this, no luck yet :-\
Cheers
Will
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Have you made this to spec Jerry? I thought you missed out the parboil bit in the spices?
Will,
i guess u're right - i did not make the lasan 2 spec 1st time or this time in terms of the par boil. i make tikka and quick marinated chicken (<24hrs) quite a lot. i've tried quite a few variations on the par boil theme - it don't do it for me for tikka (it does for the quick marinade but that's just down to the cooking method not the marinade). the only way to get real good tenderness for tikka is to marinade for at least 3 days. for me the par boil seals the surface of the chicken which is not what u want for a long marinade.
when i say quick marinade i refer to the ashoka recipe. the par boil only works for a very short cooking too ~ 3 to 5 mins max. the important thing after cooking is to leave the meat in the liquid until the liquid has cooled.
i also think the lime juice has to be on the radar too along with the mustard oil, black salt and white pepper. for info i've used the mustard oil in a chicken marinade for pallea and it made no difference.
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the only way to get real good tenderness for tikka is to marinade for at least 3 days
How long do BIRs marinate their chicken for? :-\
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3 days seems a long time, the maximum I have done is 24 hrs which works well for me, but I will have to try 3 days next time you cant beat tender chicken tikka. I would do it this week but I have a leg of lamb to tikka & its curry night Wednesday so only just got it out of the freezer. I heard about an Asian shop here in Doncaster that does mustard oil so going there today to get some.
Will
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3 days seems a long time
Will, for a BIR, it seems like an unreasonably long time! ::)
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I heard about an Asian shop here in Doncaster that does mustard oil Will
BUT! Do BIRs use MUSTARD OIL? :-\
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The Lasan BIR does ;D,
The use of mustard oil in it did suprise me as the bottles I have seen say for external use only. Is there any bottles that say ok for food? If you are not allowed to use it for food why are lasan using it? Its probably some EU directive ::)
Will
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The Lasan BIR does ;D,
The use of mustard oil in it did suprise me as the bottles I have seen say for external use only. Is there any bottles that say ok for food? If you are not allowed to use it for food why are lasan using it? Its probably some EU directive ::)
Will
Yes you can't sell mustard oil for human consumption in the UK or the States or Australia I believe. There was some research years ago that showed it was really bad for laboratory rats.
That's when it got banned. Later research showed that pigs and humans are not affected unlike rats. So it is ok to eat it but at your own risk
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Thanks for that PaulP
Will
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CA,
i'm not saying anyone including BIR's have to marinade for any particular length of time. i have found by trial and error that 3 to 4 days is about the optimum ie less than 3 days is not as good and more than 3 days is no better. if i can only marinade for say 24hrs then i switch from tikka to par boil chicken (well boil is more like simmer).
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Result is in.
the No 1 request was to make this more often and more of it (i used 3 off breast for the test).
the 3 testers preferred the CA & Test samples more than the Lasan. i think in halving the recipe amounts i got too much white pepper in the lasan and convinced this had some bearing but did not affect the result.
the test sample had more life than the CA and was judged the best on that basis. the CA had better ingredient taste (more like BIR).
i think the ingredient that brings the lasan to life is lime juice. i'm no longer convinced on mustard oil or black salt. the fennel does add a nice touch. the white pepper might just give a slight lift but u need to be careful on the amount.
i think u can guess where my thought process is going next.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/174ce22d56238d10ecb4b26af9bb2b79.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#174ce22d56238d10ecb4b26af9bb2b79.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/f6583c70c4175625fa0f329a92083698.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#f6583c70c4175625fa0f329a92083698.jpg)
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i'm not saying anyone including BIR's have to marinade for any particular length of time. i have found by trial and error that 3 to 4 days is about the optimum ie less than 3 days is not as good and more than 3 days is no better. if i can only marinade for say 24hrs then i switch from tikka to par boil chicken (well boil is more like simmer).
Yes, but if BIRs marinate for far less than 3 to 4 days (I presume) and it tastes brilliant? Doesn't that suggest you're doing something very different to them? :-\
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CA,
i'm almost with u. the tandoor makes a big difference too. when i use my chiminea the food takes a clear step up.
although the BIR does taste brill - the texture (tenderness) is not always as brill as u can get. there are clearly some BIR (i know one) who use top notch meat. the local TA don't and yes they don't marinade for 3 days either. the taste of the tikka is brill but the texture lets it down.
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It seems clear to me that the BIRs wouldn't marinate for 3 or 4 days, but I can see why Jerry takes this route as it does allow the marinade to penetrate better and must help with tenderisation of the meat.
I suspect that the BIRs with the tenderest tikkas are using chicken that is pumped full of water as I would imagine that that would both soften the raw meat and allow the marinade to penetrate better in a shorter time.
I can confirm that the Iceland 3-bags-for-a-tenner chicken breasts come out very tender, and guess what, yes, they're pumped with water. And BTW, you chicken snobs, try these Iceland chicken breasts, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
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Surely after 3 days the meet isn't marinated, it is practically cooked? Pickled at least. 24 hours in the fridge (or overnight - therefore 8-10 hours) is all I have ever seen. 30 minutes usually does the job. And if you are using good meat, why mask the flavour of the meat by such treatment?
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we are currently using up farm foods 3 for a tenner. this offer has alas i think gone.
will have to try iceland they sound very similar to the farm foods as our alternative ASDA Smart are very poor in comparison.
the meat after the 3 days is in very good condition - not cooked or pickled. it's one to try - but if it don't suit then stick with what u know.
i'm going for 2 off samples later this week using more chicken to meet demand.
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i have spent alot of time marinating and cooking chicken in the oven. the key is at least 24 hours marination, 2 days is better. then turn oven up to 180 degrees , then place chicken in middle of oven for about 12 to 16 mins. depending on how chunky your chunks are!! I like chunky chunks ;D if you get the cooking time just right the chicken is very tender. too long and it dries out. as soon as the chicken is cooked and not pink remove it and test it.
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if you get the cooking time just right the chicken is very tender. too long and it dries out. as soon as the chicken is cooked and not pink remove it and test it.
DD,
thought about exactly this same nightmare myself today. as u point out fiddling about with ingredients and marinade times can all be spoilt in a matter of a few mins.
it's the cooking that's just as crucial in getting that result that we all love so much.
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the last test was real good fun and familly loved the event. hence i've started a 2nd batch. the lasan is left on the shelf for now.
i've remade the CA (lemon juice replaced with lime) and test recipe (black salt replaced with normal salt). the test recipe still contains mustard oil and lime juice.
the white pepper, fennel, black salt are effectively left on the shelf for a while.
at this stage CA's still tastes best. not surprising i guess as it has significantly more ingredients.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/4a45df5b8db5672beada9fa12c4f17ff.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#4a45df5b8db5672beada9fa12c4f17ff.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/c4a4ba4d36b5fb7279090ad36f8080b2.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#c4a4ba4d36b5fb7279090ad36f8080b2.jpg)
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nice pics Jerry
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will have to try iceland they sound very similar to the farm foods as our alternative ASDA Smart are very poor in comparison.
OOPS! Sorry Jerry I meant Farmfoods, I tend to confuse the two!
And I'm gutted if that deal has stopped. That was perfectly good chicken at a cracking price.
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Another reason why I like this recipe is because it doesnt rely on any of Mr Pataks pastes.
I accept that Pataks products are used in a hell of a lot of BIRs but Im affraid I avoid using them because I think its cheating! :)
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Hi Mick, yes i am also not using pataks anymore. its suprisingly hard to get a good rich bir style taste, just relying on the key ingredients. but i am well pleased with this years results so far. last year was all about mistakes, but i must have learnt alot in the process. i am throwing out my last few pataks jars this weekend. ;D
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I accept that Pataks products are used in a hell of a lot of BIRs but I'm afraid I avoid using them because I think its cheating!
I agree Mick, I have never used Pataks pastes as it seems a bit like cooking a bit of chicken and chucking in someone else's spice or sauce ingredients. To me this isn't really cooking, it's taking a shortcut and "assembling".
I always like to use masalas that I have roasted and ground myself. I enjoy it as part of the fun of cooking curries. I too accept that some BIRs will use Pataks but I also accept that they have to find a way of turning out dozens of curries of an evening. I don't have to do that and also want to know what is going into my curries.
Also feel the same way about chicken. I have read some posts where people are buying the cheapest broiler birds from Farmfoods etc and think it's a bit like computers - crap in crap out.
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I have read some posts where people are buying the cheapest broiler birds from Farmfoods etc and think it's a bit like computers - crap in crap out.
You couldn't be more wrong in this case. But I guess you'll continue to pay twice or three times the price for chicken that tastes exactly the same. Your loss mate! ;D
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I have read some posts where people are buying the cheapest broiler birds from Farmfoods etc and think it's a bit like computers - crap in crap out.
You couldn't be more wrong in this case. But I guess you'll continue to pay twice or three times the price for chicken that tastes exactly the same. Your loss mate! ;D
In the end, you pays your money and takes your choice. If they want to pay as little as 50p a pound for their meat, they have little cause to complain about the farmers. This of course comes at a cost. Broiler chicken farms are simply protein factories; machines for turning chicken feed into edible fibrous chicken muscle as quickly and cheaply as possible. The typical broiler chicken has around six weeks to live. At hatching, the chicks weigh just a few ounces, but when they are killed their weight may have increased to nearly five pounds. The weight of all this muscle - which is the meat we eat - can break the immature bones of the bird's skeleton. It also puts pressure on its heart and can cause heart failure and lung problems.
Meanwhile the floor of the barn is thick with droppings, and the stench of ammonia is overpowering. Many of the birds die, and their carcasses contribute to the harsh atmosphere. It is estimated that nine out of ten birds are effectively lame by the time they are killed. The ammonia released in the urine and the faeces soaked straw and wood shavings underfoot eats away the chickens legs, causing the black burns that can often be seen staining the flesh of supermarket joints.
Enjoy!! :P
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Secret Santa,
the farm foods deal is on still in some stores but off in others. i'm not a fan of iceland as u need a 1? to park (i never have cash). i was back on the asda yesterday and may have to head stephen's advice.
et al,
glad the pataks is seeing sense. real good pies from wigan. hate the football team (friend is in the youth academy and this would change when he makes the 1st team) not a fan of the stuff in jars full stop.
stephen,
i think we all need to know more on the food industry and probably become a tad more veggie as a result and make the money still cover the needs.
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I think you will find that a lot of this cheap chicken is reared on factory ships originating from China which hasn't exactly got the best reputation for human rights so it stands to reason their animal rights arent the most stringent in the world! Because the chickens are processed and packaged in UK or Europe (usually Holland), it can have a "produce of EU" label on it
BTW under the mesh that the chicken stand on (all their lives) there is a container full of water containing..... wait for it...........prawns
You can guess what their staple diet is :o
Sorry going a bit off topic but ultimately its the big supermarkets are to blame.
All this "Fair Trade" should start at home with British Food Producers
Soz guys had to get that off my chest. Im a farmer
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mickdabass,
nothing to apologise for - for sure. it's worse than that but don't get me going - supermarket profit ehh - i've not seen a poor one.
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I tried the Farmfoods 3 bags for a tenner of frozen chicken several months ago.
I found the meat was too salty and watery and had a poor texture, and ended up giving the remaining 2 bags away. You don't need to add salt to frozen chicken so why do they do that? I know the water is to increase the weight.
Each to their own I suppose.
Paul.
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I found the meat was too salty and watery and had a poor texture
I find no trace of saltiness, not too watery (despite the fact that they water injected), and texture similar to any other chicken at 2 or 3 times the price. As you say, each to their own!
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it is very much each to his own both on taste and cost for sure.
a local Indian restaurant has the best chicken i've ever tasted - they buy it direct from a farm and in a curry serve it plain. without doubt the best quality meat u can buy. pure white meat.
i'm convinced too why steak in good restaurants taste miles better than u're v.best efforts at home - the quality of the meat.
having said all of that - long live the farm foods frozen for us - best in vfm class
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2nd test is done. CA's was clear fav. it also looked the part.
the test recipe was surprisingly close given much less ingredient is used.
i am now convinced the step change of the lasan is primarily down to the use of lime juice. well done to Mikka for pointing this out a while ago.
both CA and the test did not have any black salt. i think this adds very little benefit.
the test had mustard oil whereas CA's did not. i still think mustard oil adds something extra and will adopt as std - down to a taste in the test that was not in the CA and could not be down to the other differences in ingredient.
i do think white pepper adds a further dimension and intend to add this in too.
i'm probably also sold on the fennel and intend to experiment over time with the spices.
these sort of "extra" intent on my part ie mustard oil, pepper and fennel are quite picky and not essential. it's the lime juice that makes the step change.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/04dd0c3264d41b5063ac648f30367bbf.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#04dd0c3264d41b5063ac648f30367bbf.jpg)
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This has to be the nicest recipe i've used here or anwhere.
Everytime i make a curry now im knocking this stuff up for it :)
I just finished a Tandoori Chicken Balti madras and the missus and i loved it.(well she did complain about the chilli but that isnt my fault its the chillies that are hot not me)
Wicked recipe.
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Spent a couple of hours yesterday knocking up 4 bags/16 chicken thighs of this tandoori recipe ready for freezing this afternoon, from now on all i have to do is defrost and cook a bag full and thats mine and the missus's curry half done :)
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made this recipe twice now , both done on the BBQ , chicken drumsticks , lovely !!!
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Have any of you guys tried Blades Chicken Tikka recipe? if so, how does this compare?
Ray :)
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i have tried it and i think this one is better , i am going to try the new recipe on here that was posted recently for chicken tikka , looks lovely but the lasan one is tops
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Hi,
I have been wanting to try this for a while now but couldn't find any mustard oil.
I finally found some "mustard oil" in a chinese supermarket, but it is a mustard oil & rapeseed oil mixture. Will this be ok to use? It is called Mustarda. I dont remember what quantity of each is in the bottle.
cheers
Will
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Willy in traditional Indian cooking the mustard oil is tempered by heating to smoking point and then letting it cool a bit before use, this takes the edge off it.
If you don't want to do that then the alternative is to mix the mustard oil with a vegetable oil and use as normal. They've done the job for you here, so it's ideal to use.
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Hi Santa
thanks for that, I will get some tomorrow 8)
cheers
Will
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I've tried the Lasan a couple of times.
For me the mustard oil and the black salt killed it. Both just sort of gross me out.
But I could also tell that a quality tikka was waiting underneath. I do intend to try it again. I will take SS suggestion of tempering the mustard oil to smoking and let cool. Hopefully that will kill the pungency.
But I'm still divided on the black salt. Does anyone have an opinion on what it adds? Any strong opinions on simply omitting it?
Thx,
Josh
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For me the mustard oil and the black salt killed it.
I couldn't agree more josh. The last time I used these ingredients was when I was cooking authentic Indian a very long time ago and that's where they should be left in my opinion. They have no or little place in the type of BIR cooking we strive for.
On the other hand if you've never tried the mustard oil when tempered that's worth a go as you may like it more that way, it takes the nasty edge off.
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appreciate ea to there own - i'm still making it using mustard oil and black salt (have dropped the plain salt). i just use the mustard oil straight out the bottle. i can't see a mixture with rapseed being any good (for me anyhow).
i'm still using the lime juice in place of lemon dressing.
i use the mustard oil & lime juice in CA's tikka which i also continue to make.
never tried blades tikka.
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Hi Jerry,
I use mustard oil in my mint sauce, straight from the bottle. I have no problem with it.
As for Blades tikka, I can't believe what fantastic results it brings bearing in mind the lack of yogurt and very little marinating required. You should give it a go Jerry, I think you'd enjoy the comparison with others.
Ray :)
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Razor,
will have to give it a go - just for interest - now i've got over my phobia of using the pataks stuff.
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Hi,
I have just made this and found it to be brilliant, tasty & zingy. I wish I made some more it is really nice!!. I had to wait a long time to try it due to a mustard oil shortage around here but it was well worth the wait ;D
cheers
Will
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The use of mustard oil in it did suprise me as the bottles I have seen say for external use only. Is there any bottles that say ok for food? If you are not allowed to use it for food why are lasan using it? Its probably some EU directive ::)
I was just about to answer "yes" (more than a little belatedly) when I thought to check the bottle : oops, it clearly says "for external use only". Which makes me think two things : (1) this must be why my Chef Harpal Singh Sokhi tandoori chicken tasted so foul; and (2) there must be an edible version which is what I should have used in the first place !
** Phil.
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No Phil,
You can't buy mustard oil in this country, EU, US, Australia etc. that does not say "for external use only". It has been discussed on here before.
Check out Wikipedia or similar for an explanation.
I use the KTC pure mustard oil.
Paul
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Thanks, Paul : yes, I wrote before reading to the end of the thread. But it still won't stop me searching for "edible mustard oil" whenever I am in an Asian supermarket !
** Phil.
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Hi
It's the same stuff,an EU labelling directive!
Regards
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Funnilly enough Mustard oil is probably the only ingredient i own, or have ever owned, that i have never tasted in its raw state.
hmm...
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I think the 'external use only' is referring to pure Mustard Oil,
but I have seen 5 litre containers of Blended mustard oil and veg oil not labeled for external use only,
thats the stuff my local uses, it only goes into the tikka and tandoori marinades,
Mick
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I think the 'external use only' is referring to pure Mustard Oil
I can certainly confirm that my bottle is "100% Pure Indian Mustard Oil" and is labelled "For external use only".
** Phil.
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Have just put 3 bags full of lasan tandoori chicken in the fridge to start the 24hr marinade,i love this recipe, The only alteration i have made is to substitute the lime juice for mango powder as Jen's allergic to citrus.
Roll on Friday night, Tandoori chuck starters and a Curry of some disciption using up a bit more of my Taz base and mix. Yummy yum yum.
:)
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I've made a small variation of this recipe along with Blade's (where I used balti paste instead of tandoori). The lasan came up as the clear winner (although I didn't make them to compare, it's just that I was not really happy with any of the previous recipes I tried, which didn't remind me of my TAs at all -- although they were good); I didn't use black salt or white pepper as I couldn't source black salt and forgot to buy white pepper. The results seem more similar to that I used to get when ordering.
For this recipe, I used PC's tandoori masala, which seems to be one of the few PC masalas worth writing down.
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Which tandoori paste do you normally use to make Blade's recipe Goncalo? Pataks produce two. For Blade's it has to be the Tandoori Curry Paste (Tamarind and Ginger). Mild. It's the predominant taste. Fascinating thread. The only changes I make to Blade's recipe is the addition of mustard oil, and while pepper. Sometimes add a bit of chaat masala. Takes some beating I think. Will give the Lassan recipe a go at some point.
Rob :)
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I used the tandoori curry paste. Interesting that you mention chaat masala on tikkas, as this recipe calls for black salt as well, which is one of the "highly distinctive" smells in the chaat masala. I'll try it next time :)
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never tried blades tikka.
Then you haven't lived!
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George, that quote was from May, 2010! A bit late for contemporary comment, methinks!
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George, that quote was from May, 2010! A bit late for contemporary comment, methinks!
"The mills of justice grind slow, but exceeding small" :)
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Hhhm, I wonder what "1 Lime Juice" means in the ingredient list? The juice of 1 lime or 1 tsp lime juice?
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I used juice of one lime and I think I saw this on the actual video on youtube. It does not overpower, I couldn't tell the difference between this or lemon. In the whole, I think lasan results in better tikka, YMMV.
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Thanks, goncalo!
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Ok, I tried this today but I did two things differently: I only used chicken breast and I only marinated for 9 hours. Apart from that I followed the recipe exactly.
My verdict? Overrated. The chicken breast came out beautiful looking, moist and tender but the taste didn't blow me away, really. There's something about it that I don't like very much - maybe it's the mustard oil which I did temper as some members have advised and as I saw on some blogs about traditional indian cuisine. I think that CBM's/Mick's Tikka using Patak's pastes or CA's Tikka made from scratch are both better. Blade1212's, too, representing the 'no-yoghurt' camp. Not much, but still better. Yes, I am mixing up Tandoori and Tikka but to me it's almost the same. Call me an idiot, if you want.
I won't make this again.
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It's a shame it didn't work for you SC. I had mine marinating for 2-3 days and, I only used breasts as well. The only things I didn't use was black salt and white pepper.
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Well, maybe the black salt spoiled it for me. There are so amny good recipes out there, though, I don't think this can get so much better.