Curry Recipes Online
British Indian Restaurant Recipes - Starters & Side Dishes => Starters and Side Dishes Chat => Topic started by: chriswg on March 19, 2010, 01:56 PM
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I'm planning on cooking a Vindaloo on Saturday night so rather then my usual plan of quickly knocking up Bhajis on the day, I thought I would plan ahead and see if I can get close to BIR style.
I'm using the CWG 1.1 ingredients. Annoyingly there weren't any potatoes in the house so I had to make do with jsut plain old Onions :(
Last night (Thursday) I quartered the onions and sliced them as finely as humanly possible. Using Global knives, this was very fine indeed! I added the spices and salt to the onions and stuck them in the fridge for an overnight marinade / soften.
This morning at about 6:50am I added gram and rice flour in very small quantities until the onion was just about covered and very sticky. I didn't add any extra liquid apart from a small squeeze of lemon dressing. I rolled these into walnut sized balls and deep fryed them for 4 - 5 minutes at 130 degrees.
When they were jsut starting to colour I removed them, put them on a plate and stuck them in a cupboard. They will remain there until this evening when I am planning on squashing half of them flat and leaving the rest round. I'll leave them in the fridge overnight ready to be cooked tomorrow evening. I'm also considering putting 1 of each type in our warming oven for a few hours prior to cooking. This will help replicate the how BIR kitchen environment that their Bhajis sit in all evening before being cooked.
I can't think of anything I'm not trying with this batch. They looked great this morning after their first cook through. I'm still concerned that 1tsp of ground coriander and 1tsp turmeric might be too much spice for 7 bhajis. I'm more interested in the texture from this method than the taste. If this works I can reduce the spices next time to get that balance right.
I have some pics but cant upload at the moment as Im at work.
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Chris,
As part of my visit today which i'm sure you'll read with interest. I have been offered the opportunity to visit my local next week to watch as they prepare over 200 Onion Bhaji.
If this doesn't shed some light on our quest, i'll be mortified.
Regards,
Malc.
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Get in the hole!
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I quartered the onions and sliced them as finely as humanly possible.
The problem is Chris that no Bhaji (that I've seen) does it that way. The ones I have are at least roughly 5mm slices, as you can see them in the finished article. So why the ultra fine slices? ???
I rolled these into walnut sized balls
Again, why? ???
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I'm trying to get rid of the rawness of the onions. The thicker the slices, the longer they need to cook. When I fry onions for hotdogs I cut them in 5mm slices and they need at least 10 mins to cook through at a high temperature. Once you add in the spices and batter you cant cook the onions for that long - it just burns. Maybe once I get better at the method I'll be able to increase the width of the onions but for now I'm keeping it as small as possible.
The same reason goes for the walnut sized balls. The smaller they are, the more likely they are to cook through. Something I feel is plaguing us all.
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chriswg,
dedication is impressive.
i'm with Secret Santa on the cut width - it don't need to be too fine - 3 to 5 mm i feel is good. the main breakthrough for me was leaving the whole mix for 5hrs and not adding any water (as per Panpot's advice). this soften's them perfectly.
i've not tried the 2 stage cook yet - it's next up for sure. i am convinced this leaving them to cool and then re fry will deliver the BIR soft interior but crisp exterior. i don't think having to tap or squash them would be needed.
i'm convinced that they must be cooked in a deep fryer. i use 160C.
as u say no need to get hung up on spice - it's the method we need right 1st.
looking fwd to results.
best wishes,
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The best bhaji recipe i have used is the one i recently posted, seriously its good and if you want to try it it wont take long as a comparison.
Im with chris, i always slice my onions as finely as possible, both because they do cook through before any spices burn, but also because i can cut them finely, call it pride lol.
The only bhaji's i have ever eaten have been flat and about 4" in diameter, or round and the size of a plum.
Some of the bhaji photo's on here i have seen are ridiculous, if someone served me one of those up id run away from fright lol.
But i cant find a decent mint dip recipe anywhere.
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because i can cut them finely, call it pride lol.
peter,
i can read u like a book - i bet u're knife handles are blue. i've just bought a new catering "paring" knife - they don't do blue and white stripes but thankfully no gold and black either.
best wishes fellow brummie. ps some of the family are on that side of town too.
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No sorry mate, my knifes are cheap ?20 odd stainless steel set of five ones from argos lol, they are about 10 years old and the one i use most often, the big-un is now about half as deep as it was when i first got it, due to use and sharpening.
I will say though that im desperate to buy a decent stainless steel chefs knife, dont want a paring or carving knife, just a decent chefs knife, all metal, with an edge i can run along a steel for sharpening.
Also, the second most used item for me would be my steel, its a proper butchers one that my brother bought when he went to catering college about 24 years ago, which has stood the test of time well but is now getting to the retirement age :(
The steel has got to be the most usefull item in a kitchen i reckon, the better the steel the sharper the knife, and a chef once said "You dont cut yourself with a sharp knife!"
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Don't forget the pics tonight Chris. ;)
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The only bhaji's i have ever eaten have been flat and about 4" in diameter, or round and the size of a plum.
Some of the bhaji photo's on here i have seen are ridiculous, if someone served me one of those up id run away from fright lol.
I have that reaction too peter but in reverse. I get seriously offended when I'm served up one of those flat travesties. All it says to me is that the chef has no skill. In the early days all I ever got was the large tennis ball sized round bhajis, perfectly cooked through. It's a skill and one that seems to be fast disappearing, much to my chagrin.
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peter,
obviously can't read u like a book. for info www.cromwell.co.uk (http://www.cromwell.co.uk) might be worth a look on the catering knives.
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(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/5421e8dd6148a70cf416c582c776975a.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#5421e8dd6148a70cf416c582c776975a.jpg)
Finely chopped onions resting in the spices.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/ece069e2947688c1da34996def311c1a.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#ece069e2947688c1da34996def311c1a.jpg)
Gram flour added and rolled into balls.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/03808b719d188d251233be9e56cf57f1.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#03808b719d188d251233be9e56cf57f1.jpg)
After first fry and 24 hours resting.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/8ffbcb19a2fcc575c144c1866c3314ec.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#8ffbcb19a2fcc575c144c1866c3314ec.jpg)
Insides cooked well.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/f2e4a0c724625fca754a7bada32b4f89.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#f2e4a0c724625fca754a7bada32b4f89.jpg)
Chicken Madras.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/e2b08a30963412309a39e0fa0330009d.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#e2b08a30963412309a39e0fa0330009d.jpg)
Poor attempt at cooking Naans on a pizza tray.
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chriswg,
love the pics but can u make bigger.
how did it all taste and what are u're thoughts going fwd.
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love the pics but can u make bigger.
Especially your 4th photo ("insides cooked well").
Something like 600 - 700 pixels wide by 450 - 525 pixels high (preserving the aspect ratio) is good for viewing on the forum.
How big were your bhajis (if that's not too personal a question! :P)
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http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/3Z5Vbr8lsjAcUQiThL7a7w?authkey=Gv1sRgCMzHr-q7y5XQPA&feat=directlink (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/3Z5Vbr8lsjAcUQiThL7a7w?authkey=Gv1sRgCMzHr-q7y5XQPA&feat=directlink)
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/uXl54o3HBk5aDY-Lr7znsg?authkey=Gv1sRgCMzHr-q7y5XQPA&feat=directlink (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/uXl54o3HBk5aDY-Lr7znsg?authkey=Gv1sRgCMzHr-q7y5XQPA&feat=directlink)
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/KUTfPtnkpohQdAQUDS-DIw?authkey=Gv1sRgCMzHr-q7y5XQPA&feat=directlink (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/KUTfPtnkpohQdAQUDS-DIw?authkey=Gv1sRgCMzHr-q7y5XQPA&feat=directlink)
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/fS97YN6LiRpyFd5wj8sjmA?authkey=Gv1sRgCMzHr-q7y5XQPA&feat=directlink (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/fS97YN6LiRpyFd5wj8sjmA?authkey=Gv1sRgCMzHr-q7y5XQPA&feat=directlink)
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They were my best yet from a cooking method point of view, the spices need a bit of work but I think that will be the easier part.
I probably over cooked them a little on the final fry. There was a lot going on as my wife was cooking a totally separate meal and I was balancing cooking the Madras, poppadums and Naan. I'm kicking myself for not getting the thermometer out to check the oil temp, I think it must have been around the 160 - 170 mark as they darkened very quickly. The second batch I kept more of an eye on.
I'd say cooking method - 90%
Taste - 75%
I have lots of ideas for moving forwards though and I feel I'm on a good track now.
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I'm kicking myself for not getting the thermometer out to check the oil temp
chriswg,
treat yourself - get a 2nd deep fryer
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Chris, they look inviting indeed. Do you think the mix was to wet before you rolled or just right?
I also think the amount of precook time is essential not to over do.
Will these be the adjustments that you make?
Like you, I didn't keep an eye on my oil last night and the first batch got rather hot under the collar. lol
Its all good fun. ;)
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I just watched the Dipuranja Youtube Onion Bhaji video.
http://www.youtube.com/user/dipuraja1#p/a/u/0/hFeRuAT_gJI (http://www.youtube.com/user/dipuraja1#p/a/u/0/hFeRuAT_gJI)
It was a very interesting watch and although I don't think the results from his effort looked very good, it does reinforce a couple of my thoughts from my Bhaji experiments. Firstly (and I appreciate it's only based on this one video) it would appear they dont premarinate the onions in salt and spices before they are made. I found this made the onion too soft so you end up with a very smooth ball and a sludgy middle. The idea of keeping everything very loose to maximize the internal surface areas in contact with the hot oil makes sense. Almost all BIR OB's are a bit spiky with onion jutting out everywhere, you definitely lose this with the premarinading so for me, that's out moving forwards.
The use of an egg as a binder isn't a new idea but is one I discounted a while ago in favour of standard water based batter. I'll revisit now as it might be the only way to get the onions sticky enough for a light coating of flour.
The lentils are also something I haven't tried before so I'll give them a go.
I'd never really considered it might be food colouring giving the internal colouring, I'll be buying some of that today.
Finally I can't tell you how pleased I was to see the potato going in too. That is now 4 out of 4 Indian chefs I have heard say this should be added. CA - it's time to accept the truth!
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Finally I can't tell you how pleased I was to see the potato going in too. That is now 4 out of 4 Indian chefs I have heard say this should be added. CA - it's time to accept the truth!
To be honest, I have to say I've now lost whatever faith I might otherwise have had in Dipuraja ;)
I'll leave you to write this one up Chris! :-X
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Chris, if you haven't yet seen it, I did a test of these yesterday. : http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4417.msg40521;boardseen#new (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4417.msg40521;boardseen#new)
He's obviously a jack of all trades master of none chef. He has a donar kebab machine, a pizza oven, etc.
The way he refers to "just like an Indian" suggests that he is not as dedicated to Indian as I would hope. Perhaps he has just learnt to encompass a wider trend, but in doing so, must cut corners elsewhere.
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Ive just knocked up a batch, and eaten, of onion bhaji's after reading this discussion lol.
As a side note if you wash your hands and keep them wet whilst rolling the mix up it wont stick to you.
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i don't feel u can right Dipuraja off. i said previously what i think and he's still star man for me.
i will use his recipe and method when i make this week but i'll add in what i already know to work.
real looking fwd to it. i'll probably do a batch of my norm (chilli prawn) for a side by side and maybe then perhaps keeps his to spec completely.
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These questions about shape i.e. flat or round, could this be the difference between a Pre-Cooked Bhaji and Fresh Cooked Bhaji.
I say this as if a Bhaji is cooked fresh, it would have to be flat in order to ensure even cooking, where as the pre-cooked obviously processed in a completely different way.
Any thoughts?
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i find bhajis taste pretty much the same across BIR land. u do get the odd one that really stands out. all that i've seen/tasted are fully compressed into a ball so to speak - it's clear they've not been patted. i've never seen the flat version.
the pre cooking sits well with my experience.
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i've posted results of my comparison in the Dipuraja post http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4429.msg40663#msg40663 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4429.msg40663#msg40663)
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i've never seen the flat version.
Crikey, there is quite a few restaurants around these parts, that do flat bhaji. We have a one of these new fandangled Indian restaurants just up the road and there Onion Bhaji is no thicker than 1cm. They are always quite greasy too! ???