Curry Recipes Online
British Indian Restaurant Recipes - Starters & Side Dishes => Starters & Side Dishes => Bhajis (Onion, Pakora, Mushroom, Vegetable, etc => Topic started by: Malc. on March 25, 2010, 07:34 PM
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I would like to thank both the owners and staff of the Indian Garden in Burgess Hill, for making me feel welcome and for the opportunity to see this Kitchen Demonstration. They were very supportive and answered any questions I had for them. I was even invited to make a few Bhaji as well.
Onion Bhaji Kitchen Demo
The demo was for an entire market bag of onions 25kg, these were halved and sliced and split between to containers. One holding about 3/5 the other 2/5. They were prepared the evening before and stored overnight in the fridge. This is only to do with volume and time aspect but may have an effect on the onion.
The ingredient list below is based on the larger pot of onion as shown in the pictures below.
Hf = Handful
Ingredients
15 kg Onions
8 Eggs
2 kg Gram Flour
1.5 kg Potato
1 Corriander bunch
1 Hf Aniseed
1 Hf Hot Chilli Powder
1 Hf Spice Mix (here: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4442.msg40694#new (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4442.msg40694#new))
1 Hf Salt
3/4 tsp Egg Yellow Colouring
Method
The handful of Fennel was added to the onions prior to being bought into the kitchen.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/2c7057cdb352d949e5d88960385efc91.jpg)
The Coriander was washed and chopped, I noted the stalks were included.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/2a3687e531192759088fd5adb6cd2252.jpg)
The potato (which were described as large baking) were sliced into match sticks.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/1cd237a6c5f8c9dcc9a2e61854099917.jpg)
Both were added to the pot. I have posted this image for you to get an idea of how much potato was used.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/b6d279bb7934dfa6fc1bdadee69cd4f7.jpg)
The two mixed through. This shot gives you an indication of how much onion there was.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/7ecee7e6d358afbd9cb73e5ea16f170b.jpg)
Next they added a handful of spice mix. This was then also mixed through.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/0d9ba8199a6d10b241b1a3f73c3b7cd2.jpg)
They were very insistent that each added spice was followed by a mix. This is after a handful of chilli powder was added.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/0c501d3c97979af7e3fb5f198d9b9511.jpg)
Once the salt had been through which was after the mix and chilli, they added the colour and the 8 eggs. (you can see how little colour is used). Again, this was mixed through thoroughly.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/5f26938a49051c3b5200316af347e13b.jpg)
The final ingredient was the Gram Flour. This was mixed through in two stages. The guy making the bhaji mix must have some serious arm muscle as you could see how hard it was to continually turn the mix.
They explained that it has to be done by hand to prevent the onion from giving too much liquid back into the mix.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/44395671a58d91b9ee2158519f0c4506.jpg)
Once the mix was ready, oil was heated. I asked how hot and they replied, just enough to make a potato matchstick bubble instantly. I later concluded that the temperature was around 160c.
With wet hands, a portion of mix was rounded over and over. He was careful not to squeeze the mixture but too form it into a ball the size of a tennis ball.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/b5e23954c71627bbf01af616291f2ec3.jpg)
These were dropped into the oil one after the other until the pan was full. They remained in the pan for an estimated 8-10 mins, before being removed to drain and cool.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/09288d738fb77fb55337e7dbce6e3bf8.jpg)
Here is a batch having been allowed to drain off the fat.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/6c8ed652a5e94c89c5b9fe6f737009ac.jpg)
And again close up.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/7c31bfb8d16047986c3f15c69f178248.jpg)
Surprisingly, I was offered one to try and they were cooked through. Though the final cook would set the inside a little firmer.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/33604e7f4e57850cb0eeada25adbc1dc.jpg)
The centre was cooked with a little give, the bhaji was very tasty and quite spicy. Apparently when the cool and rest for a day, the spice mellows down. I assume as the onion and batter adsorbs it.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/c623f66d84167c8ffc8c66c6290c8b0e.jpg)
From the demo I have tried to conclude the measurements for making at home. I have posted these on my onion bhaji quest here: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4396.msg40688#msg40688 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4396.msg40688#msg40688)
Please feel free to discuss the measurements.
I hope this provides the insight we have all been looking for.
Cheers,
Malc :)
Recipe for smaller portion moved to here by CA:
I have just returned from my local restaurant where as some of you know, I have been for a demo of how to make a BIR Onion Bhaji. Gob smacked is what I am now.
For those of you who said I had too many ingredients, you were right. I am now going to refine my recipe to something like:
This is a sneak preview of the Bhaji Demo I am going to right up with pictures, this evening.
IG Onion Bhaji (Broken down from Kitchen Demo)
Ingredients
4 Onions (size about 5cm diameter)
1 - 2 Cups Gram Flour
1 tbl Corriander Leaf
1/2 Sml Potato
1 Egg Beaten
1/2 tsp Aniseed
1/2 tsp Hot Chilli Powder
1/2 tsp IG Spice Mix (here: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4442.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4442.0))
1/2 tsp Salt
1 Drop Yellow Food Colouring (Optional)
Method
Half and slice the onions, cut the potato into match sticks add the Fennel and Corriander and mix. Add the Chilli and Spice Mix and mix. Add the colouring if using and the egg and salt and mix. Add the
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Good effort Axe, thanks ill try these soon 8)
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Axe,
Absolutely excellent report. What an accommodating restaurant this is, not only giving you a demo but letting you take photo's too.
What was the chef called, Popeye? ;D He must have some forearm strength!
How did you rate them Axe? did they have the taste? They certainly look the part.
Ray
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What a great post, I will have to try this out soon, in a smaller quantity of course
thanks
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Axe,
Just noticed something; in photo 1, there appears to be cumin seeds? Can you confirm this, and if so, at what quantity?
Ray
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Hold on,
Ok, I see now. In photo one is the onion and the fennel seeds right?
The reason it wasn't as obvious at first Axe, is because at a distance, sliced fennel can look very much like onion, especially when mixed with onion.
You might want to edit the ingredients to read 'fennel seeds' :)
Ray
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Ray,
The seeds in Pic#1 are actually Fennel Seeds. They do appear to be slightly smaller than the seeds I have in my cupboard. When I asked what they were, the answer was 'aniseed'. It may be possible there is another seed that they refer to as aniseed as opposed to Fennel, but for me at least, Fennel fits the bill. I have no reason to doubt them.
In the hi-res picture, you can clearly see the make up of the seed. If anyone wants to see this, I am happy to email it on or photobucket it.
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Ray, just caught the second post, Ingredients updated, sorry for the confusion.
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Hi Axe,
lol, no probs mate. My peepers are bad but I was sure that I couldn't see fennel in there ha.
Ray
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Ray,
Its all good, your were right to point it out, twice! :P ;)
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When I asked what they were, the answer was 'aniseed'. It may be possible there is another seed that they refer to as aniseed as opposed to Fennel, but for me at least, Fennel fits the bill.
Could they actually be aniseed, which is similar to, but different than, fennel? They have a more subtle taste (probably a good thing, if used in an onion bhaji).
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When I asked what they were, the answer was 'aniseed'. It may be possible there is another seed that they refer to as aniseed as opposed to Fennel, but for me at least, Fennel fits the bill.
Could they actually be aniseed, which is similar to, but different than, fennel? They have a more subtle taste (probably a good thing, if used in an onion bhaji).
Good shout CA, they do look very similar and they are slighlty smaller than fennel seeds, what dya think Axe?
Ray
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Axe - fantastic post! Any chance they would let you do a similar thing with their curry base, or a finished curry?
Has anyone taken a stab at trying to scale this down?
-- Josh
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Hi Josh,
I think Axe has scaled it down in his own post on his Onion bahji recipe. Not the first recipe, the one he post's a little further on. Heres the link anyway http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4396.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4396.0)
Ray
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I think Axe has scaled it down in his own post on his Onion bahji recipe.
I can only guess that this was Axe's recipe before he went to the BIR. The ingredients are more complex than the one in the BIR thread.
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Cory / Ray
When I look at the seed they used, it does look like a very slightly smaller seed to fennel. Characteristically, its tastes as the name suggests, as aniseed, but you get a slight hit of heat at the very back of your mouth after the taste has dissipated.
I have now Googled aniseed and have a better idea of what it looks like. Looking closer at the seed in the onion mix, it is not uniform at all. Most definitely, there is aniseed in it and but also look like fennel seed is in it too. I will study the hi-res image tonight when I get home and make a conclusion.
When all is said and done, they refer to it as aniseed, so I will change the ingredient in the initial recipe above.
Josh,
I have had a stab at breaking this down in the topic Ray mentions. You need to scroll down through it to post six. This should do it: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4396.msg40688#msg40688 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4396.msg40688#msg40688)
Having been given an open invite to return, I hope to see the base made up from start to finish. I will endeavour to take pictures and post it up as I have done here.
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Hi Axe,
You're doing a cracking job with this mate, keep up the good work!
Ray
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Axe
BRILLIANT POST - for me this is the best post I've ever seen on any forum. I genuinely cant wait to give these a go.
The temperature can't have been 160 degrees if they cooked them for 8 - 10 minutes, they would be black. I think the optimum temperature must be between 125 degrees (any lower and they wouldn't crisp at all) and 150 degrees. I'm happy to try out a range until I get them just right.
Looking forward to rolling up my sleeves this weekend!
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Chris,
I am not sure about the temperature. The chef did mention it was important to have the oil hot and pointed to the gas being on full, you could clearly see the burner was on high.
You must also figure into the equation that the picture showing them cooking in the pot is a little deceiving. What you see bobbing on the surface covers the fact that were just as many below them. This will reduce both temperature a risk of burning.
I refer back to the potato match stick test.
If it would great if you can identify the temperature in your tests. :)
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I'll start with the 8 - 10 minute cook time and work backwards. I imagine the oil is at 160 when they go in but must drop right down to around the 125 mark with all those added together, it will then slowly make its way back up again.
I like the similarities between this method and Dipurajas. The idea of salt last, only adding a coating of batter and not squeezing too hard to allow a network of air holes throughout (not to mention the addition of potato!!!) all come through in both recipes.
Out of interest, you mentioned the onions were sliced the day before and left in the fridge overnight. Were the aniseed / fennel seeds in the onions overnight too or were they added literally just before they were brought into the kitchen? I think to do a proper test I'll slice some onions this evening ready for tomorrrow.
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Chris,
I can not comment on the seeds having been in the onion over night, I simply do not know. Given the thoroughness by which the Bhaji were made and that the seeds were resting on top, I would guess they were not left in over night.
Remember the onion was only prepared the day before because of the time it takes to actually process them. If it helps, the onion looked quite fresh and unchanged. I doubt there is any real change overnight and if so, only to the top most layers.
I have estimated the amount of potato used. The picture showing the chopped potato was purposely done to show the volume. At best its 0.5 to 1% of the mix. For an idea of how much potato was used, you can see a round washing up bowl to the right of the chopping board, this was full of large whole potato on one layer.
What may not be instantly obvious, is that alot of this is done by eye. Nothing is really measured apart from a handful of this a bowlful of that. To you and me, this is confusing as we intend only to make a small part of this. We need to be accurate with our measurements. But on this scale, any minor changes in the amounts of ingredient is simply insignificant to the finish item.
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Thank you so much for sharing this
I don't know what's better
The recipe or the photos!!
Brilliant stuff
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Axe thanks very much for this. I must admit they do look the real business. I'll give them a try out tomorrow since I have none in the freezer now :-\
Great thanks again.
Best wishes.
Cheers.
ps. now if only a BIR will tell me how THEY make their vindaloo paste I'd be a very happy piggy indeed.
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Excellent post Axe ;) Keep up the good work.
Chriswg Potatoes eh !! ;D
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I don't mind adding to the plaudits axe. This is great stuff and thanks for sharing your experiences. Keep it coming.
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Chriswg Potatoes eh !! ;D
Even our resident critic has to smell the roses. ONION BHAJIS HAVE POTATO IN!!!
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Thanks for all the comments, it is appreciated. :)
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Much deserved Axe.
Keep well.
Thanks for all the comments, it is appreciated. :)
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Even our resident critic has to smell the roses. ONION BHAJIS HAVE POTATO IN!!!
Nah, something's not quite right, I'm afraid, Chris....I smell a fish :P
Strictly speaking, if it has potato in it, it's a pakora, not an onion bhaji. I suggest that, if you're looking for "the perfect onion bhaji", that is "traditional BIR", you lose the potatoes ::)
Only my opinion, of course :P
Axe, have you asked him why he adds potato and if they have always done it that way? If not, can you please?
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Axe,
simply love the post.
i particularly like the pic of the spice mix - the colour is a good match to that i've made of the IG recipe. i am now starting to believe that maybe that the spice mixes are genuine and nothing is missing.
very best wishes.
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Nah, something's not quite right, I'm afraid, Chris....I smell a fish :P
Strictly speaking, if it has potato in it, it's a pakora, not an onion bhaji. I suggest that, if you're looking for "the perfect onion bhaji", that is "traditional BIR", you lose the potatoes ::)
Only my opinion, of course :P
Mine too, and my local T/A and they really do 'know their onions' so to speak. According to them it's onions in a bhaji and spuds etc in a pakora, can't get any info out of them about how they make them though all they say is 'years of experience', then give you that condescending grin!
Regards
CoR
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Axe, have you asked him why he adds potato and if they have always done it that way? If not, can you please?
I did express my surprise at the use of the potato too which they replied simply. They add just a very small amount of potato to help make the bhaji crispy and give that essential consistency to the centre.
When I return, I will ask how long they have been making them like that. Though I expect the answer will be 35 years. They were very insistent that they make everything in-house and that they had been doing this for the 35 years they have been in BIR.
I am surprised that they even bother with potato considering how little goes in, but they are the finest Onion Bhaji I have ever eaten. I can't therefore question it, now I have seen it for my own eyes.
Jerry, the spice mix is something that surprised me too, more so as to the way it is made. It was explained to me that the only reason the Paprika is used, is for colour. He then added a proportion of each spice to a dish and mixed it through. Not happy with the colour he added a little more paprika until he was happy. He must have thought I didn't believe him so he took the mix to his main tub of mix and said 'look, i'll add this to the tub now'. Afterwhich, I decided to take him at his word, especially as it was exactly the same . ;)
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Axe,
the paprika is the main reason i tend to use more than one mix (some dishes don't want the extra colour). however this mix seems to have just enough of it as u say - giving that extra bit of flavour and colour but without going out of balance.
i am well pleased with u're report on the mix powder - i was intending a spice mix journey and now feel i don't need to. a lot of work saved - many thanks.
i will cook with the mix this week and post in the relevant spice mix post.
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i am well pleased with u're report on the mix powder - i was intending a spice mix journey and now feel i don't need to. a lot of work saved - many thanks.
I really don't understand that Jerry? This spice mix is little different than many others reported here (i.e. coriander, cumin, turmeric, curry powder and paprika/chili powder). How and why has it eradicated your need for your "spice journey"?
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CA,
u're aka spice mix alerted me to the fact that other spices could well be added to mix powder. in fact i added the aka to LB & kushi that i keep as stock.
i still feel i have a gap that i can't really put my finger on (got some friends hopefully guinea pig ready soon to give a view on whether their really is a gap). my local TA will grudgingly talk BIR at a push on most things and although they won't give the full picture they will give a bit of an idea. however on spice mix they won't discuss full stop. this made me suspicious.
Mikka then raised the idea of a spice journey and i realised that of all the jigsaw pieces i probably know least about the effect of spices at dish frying.
given that Axe's report seems pretty safe in terms of genuine BIR owners and their practises i'm more relaxed that time could be better spent exploring recipe refinement as this can only be where my gap is.
i think in the main we must produce very similar quality (i've copied u). i think my bases must be slightly different but everything else i feel is a close match.
i am open to thoughts. the initial list i posted a few weeks ago is not it. i do intend getting asian bay, black cumin and trying panch poran in base whole spice.
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Hi Axe,
Had a go at these tonight. They turned out really well far better than I thought they were gonna be :D
I made them tennis ball size and got 4 big ones and a little un out of the quantities that you scaled down for us, does that sound about right?
They were cooked right through even though I'd forgotten to break them open slightly on the second cook.
I added a little too much orange food colouring and at one stage, they did look like big tangerines :-\ but the cooking sorted that out :)
I think the adding of the gram flour isn't an exact science is it? I added what you suggested but felt like it was still a bit wet so I added more, about a handfull.
These bahji's were quite 'weighty' and I wouldn't eat more than 1 as a starter
I'm gonna have a go at these again next weekend but, I will do what the IG did, and I will chop the onions the night before, and I will sprinkle with the salt to draw out the water. As I said, I thought the mix was quite wet meaning that I had to add more gram flour, I think this is what made them so heavy. I'ts not a problem if this doesn't work, they are still leagues ahead of anything else that I've tried.
I couldn't get Aniseed so I did use fennel seed but the thinner smaller variety
I will take photo's of next weeks efforts, step by step.
Thank's Axe
Ray
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Ray, I think the recipe might need refining and I have considered that the most important part is what people perceive to be a large onion.
When I did the recipe yesterday I used 5 small onions which was too much. It would have better with 4 which would have matched closer to 2 large Spanish onions. I concluded that the 5 small onions needs a whole egg and close 1.5-2 cups of grams flour.
I would not salt the onions in advance but leave them in room temperature to allow them to soften.
There is definitely a technique to rolling the bahji up in wet hands, I wish I had caught this on video. But I do believe that the wet finish this puts on the bhaji helps to prevent it from burning.
Aniseed is definitely worth finding if you can.
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Recipe for smaller portion moved to bottom of #1 post of this thread by CA (here: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4443.msg40705#msg40705 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4443.msg40705#msg40705)).
The following are associated replies:
Reply by JerryM:
Axe,
i presume this is the recipe u refer to to try.
i would go for 130C being medium and 180C for the final fry. does this seem right or did u note the temps.
i can't spot the fennel in the recipe.
by Axe:
Jerry, actually at the time of posting, I meant my original recipe but now I would suggest you try the latter. Of course you are welcome to try the original too.
My mistake on the Fennel, I have added it in. I have also increased the 1/4 spoons to a 1/2.
Please feel free to discuss this.
by Razor:
is that fennel seeds? lol
[by Axe:
is that fennel seeds? :P lol
Yes! ;D
by JerryM:
i'm real taken to this recipe and will adopt as std from now on. many thanks Axe - i'm now sorted on bhajis.
i don't feel there is a step difference in the ingredients/proportions from what i've tried before - i suspect much is down to the cooking method.
i cooked 1st stage at 150C for 5 mins, left them to cool and then cooked 2nd stage at 180C for 1.5 mins. worked a treat.
i used 380g onion, 110g gram, 60g potato.
i'm still not convinced on the need to "gently break" after 1st stage but it ain't that much effort so why not.
on making again i must remember to give the fennel a very quick wiz in the blender (u want them half size) - the whole seeds are too big and don't break down like the cumin (i added both as seeds).
the only difficulty i had was on the amount of flour to add. i used 0.5 cup initially (75g) and the bhajis would not squash together and hold so the 1st 4 off cooked were too open in texture. i then added 0.25 cup more and the mix was spot on.
Ingredients
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/f160e8831ab7cf14431ccb7edb2ef456.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#f160e8831ab7cf14431ccb7edb2ef456.jpg)
After 1st stage cook
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/49bb5bb761a62d3393acce96bcdc8cc2.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#49bb5bb761a62d3393acce96bcdc8cc2.jpg)
After 2ns stage cook
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/8d8c4cbf269bd6aa67f1be9c66f473f5.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#8d8c4cbf269bd6aa67f1be9c66f473f5.jpg)
by Axe:
Jerry,
This is good news indeed. I note your comments on the Fennel seeds. We have since established that the restaurant were actually using Aniseed. Which are very similar to Fennel seed but slightly smaller. I don't have any as yet but I intend to track some down.
Was half a beaten egg enough and how do you rate the spicing levels, heavy, light or just right? I ask as I am unsure whether 1/2 tsp is to much and should be 1/4 tsp intead.
PS your making me hungry! ;)
JerryM:
Axe,
everthing was spot on - just right. i tell u i was well impressed and so was the good lady.
interesting on the aniseed - i've never seen it and would like to try it as i use fennel in base and it's the closest i've got. i do like feneel and fine with aniseed too.
Axe:
Wohoo, could it be we have cracked it. Chris will be made up, I hope his trials are as successful.
chriswg:
I sure am! I'll be heading over to our local massive Tesco that has the best world foods section I've ever seen. Can't wait.
Axe:
Actually alot of my spice cupboard is from Tesco. Not for any other reason than it was cheap and available in bulk. I haven't seen Aniseed in stock though.
We do have a really good Indian Grocer in Brighton. I haven't visited it purely down to location and parking, but I feel a reel need to go have a peek now.
JerryM:
we certainly need chriswg's thoughts on it - he's put far more effort in than anyone i know.
for me and the family our search on this bit is done.
ps Axe u've got to get into that asian store. working in one would be the next best thing to cooking in a BIR for me (well peeling onions - i could not keep up with the orders) .
COR:
We do have a really good Indian Grocer in Brighton. I haven't visited it purely down to location and parking, but I feel a reel need to go have a peek now.
Was in Brighton earlier this week, would that grocer be the Taj, by any chance? Had a nosy round the place, bloody sight cleaner and tidier than any Asian grocers round here and a good bit dearer as well!!
Cheers
CoR
Axe:
Yes it is Taj, what did you think of the selections in there? I am hoping to have a look today. I think price is due inpart to them taking advantage of the Brighton scene and the fact they offer organic produce. I've read several reviews all of which highly rate the store. Not withstanding the credibility of the review originator. I'm sure there are many other 'cheaper' alternatives available though.
COR:
Yes it is Taj, what did you think of the selections in there?
...... I think price is due inpart to them taking advantage of the Brighton scene and the fact they offer organic produce.
Hi Axe,
They had pretty much everything you're ever likely to need I think. Agree about the 'Brighton scene' thing, it's the most 'posh deli' kind of Asian grocers I've ever set foot in, very nice actually.
Talking of pricey, we had a couple of drinks in a pub in the Lanes (I think) bit, the Pump House, and the larger in there is cheaper than in my 'grim oop north' local boozer!
Regards
CoR
Axe:
Chris....aaaaaaahhhhhhhhh! I have just returned from the weekly shop with a double size bag.
CoR, On the way over to the usual global superpower that is Tesco we dropped into Raj and glad I did too. they do seem to quite a selection. I have picked up some Aniseed and several Pataks pastes (boo hiss, yes I know i'm the first to preach not using them) that aren't usually available.
The good old Pump House eh, had many a fine pint of ale from there, that would be the South Lanes. Did you try the Italian across the way, very good indeed.
chriswg:
I just finished a batch of these and WOWOWOWOWOW!!!
I think the method was the biggest winner for me, but the taste is also right up there with the best. Serve these up to me in any BIR in the country and I would be happy. Very happy.
The biggest surprise was the fact I ate them after a single cook through. I have 4 left in the fridge ready for a second cook but really there isn't much need. They were excellent after a single cook through.
I used fenugreek seeds as Tesco let me down on aniseed seeds but they were fine.
The oil temperature is absolutely critical, if you don't have a thermostat controlled deep fryer (like me) then go spend ?5 on a decent thermometer - ours is a sugar one I think.
The trick seems to be starting them off at a slightly lower temperature and letting the heat build up. My best results were when I put 3 in at 125 degrees and had the gas on full. After about 5 minutes the temperature was up to around 150 degrees which I kept it at by reducing the heat. These things need at least 8 minutes to cook through. If yours are dark brown or black after 5 mins you can guarantee they will be bitter and still raw in the middle.
I have attached a couple of pictures. for me the results of the method were flawless - 10 out of 10. The flavour might need a tiny bit of tweaking but this is probably unneccessary. I couldn't pinpoint anywhere the flavour was lacking but I'll probably mess around with other seeds, fresh chillies, hing e.t.c. to see what the results are. When I need a reliable batch I'll be using these!
I think for the first time on this forum we can draw a line under a definitive BIR recipe. They will even work as flat patties (if squashed after first cook) or they can go as big as baseballs. Everyone should be happy. (although I bet some aren't!)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/81cb19946a6abb56d2a5fafa991b9ad7.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#81cb19946a6abb56d2a5fafa991b9ad7.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/e928c5a6325b4611e2325233c75eed69.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#e928c5a6325b4611e2325233c75eed69.jpg)
I forgot to say a massive thanks to Axe. I'm really pleased I was bored at work and stumbled across your post on the Pigeonwatch forum!
emin-j:
I forgot to say a massive thanks to Axe. I'm really pleased I was bored at work and stumbled across your post on the Pigeonwatch forum!
You into Guns then chriswg ?
Axe:
Chris, they look spectacular. I have Dipuraja's Tikka marinating and my first cook batch draining as we speak. We did a couple of testers and the wife had a big bloomin' smile on her face. Then pointed out the window, I turned to look and when I looked back the second tester was being demolished to the tune of mmmm, mmmmmm. Guess i've scored some Brownie points tonight.
Thanks for all the comments, i'm just glad we have arrived at the finishing line.
chriswg:
You into Guns then chriswg ?
Thats not how I found the post but as a weird coincidence I am. I'm chairman for Camberley Rifle and Pistol club (or CRAP for short!).
Axe, my wife was a big fan too. She polished off one and a half 'tasters'.
It will be interesting to see how others get on with the recipe. It's quite hard to describe how to cook them properly. I might have to get around to shooting a quick video.
By the way when I made them I used a whole egg for 2 medium onions. I added almost everything to the onions and gave it a good mix. Then added the egg and gave it a mix, then finally the salt. I then added gram flour a bit at a time until I had a nice sticky consistency. Wetting your hands before forming the balls is also essential not only to stop them sticking to your hands but I think the extra water helps form the skin on the outside of the bhaji. That probably makes no sense but might once you give it a go.
Axe:
It makes alot of sense Chris, this was the sort of thing happening when I did them in the Kitchen Demo.
Having made some tonight and comparing the feel to the kitchen demo. I have decided that the working of the onion in such large quantities breaks them down a little. They were certainly alot softer than the fresh onion I did tonight. This will explain why my first attempts will not need pulling apart.
chriswg:
The overnighter in the fridge might have softened them a bit too while not losing their moisture content.
By the way, those potato matchsticks really need to be thin. A couple of my bhajis looked like they had French fries sticking out of them!
Axe:
I cut my match sticks to the size of a match stick, they seem ok.
Next time I do a batch, I will add a whole egg and a little more flour. I am not too worried about the softness of the onion, a stickier batter will resolve this.
The softer onion allows a better round shape to be formed. I think as far as that is concerned, its horses for courses. The overall taste and texture is good.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/1d961bba1e90c11d6e3f637f03fc2233.jpg)
JoshAllen:
I made these tonight and they were superb.
I couldn't find any aniseed, so went with the fennel.
Great recipe. Thank you Axe.
-- Josh
CA:
I used fenugreek seeds as Tesco let me down on aniseed seeds
Do you mean fennel?
I think for the first time on this forum we can draw a line under a definitive BIR recipe
I don't see what is significantly different about this recipe (apart from the potato) or the method than several other onion bhaji recipes on the forum Chris? Presumably, you're refering to the recipe in post #6 in this thread?
chriswg:
Yes I meant Fennel seeds (I hope).
I think this recipe brings together a lot of what we already knew but presents it in a way that is very easy to follow and is clearly a good insight into how most BIR's do it (judging by the results). I agree there is nothing revolutionary in the ingredient list but maybe that's the point. It keeps it simple.
I also really like the cooking method, its the first time I have made a bhaji that big that has been perfectly cooked. If you look back through the other recipes and the accompanying photos (including mine and yours) there aren't any that look exactly like BIR standard, until you get to this post and now we have 2 separate examples of (IMO) perfect looking bhajis following the same recipe.
This might be a coincidence, it might be down to the fact that Axe and I have dedicated more time than most to the art of bhaji frying but I think anyone will be able to follow this recipe and get good results.
The key things are salt in last to keep the water in the onion (contrary to previous thoughts), use just enough flour to get everything sticky (I wouldn't describe it as onions in batter, more like batter stuck to onions) and to form them really gently in wet hands to keep lots of air inside the bhaji. This last point is crucial to get the hot oil to the centre of the bhaji.
CA:
I also really like the cooking method
I'm still not too sure how you and (particularly) Axe cooked them?
JerryM:
the best way to cook them is in a deep fryer (takes all the hit and miss out). u do ideally need a 2nd fryer though as it spoils the oil for chips.
1st stage is 150C for 5mins. at this point a chriswg say's they are good enough to eat (and difficult not to). let them cool completely. 2nd stage 180C for 1.5 mins.
chriswg has given some real good tips in his post (amount of flour, wet hands). the only slight difference that i found was that i didn't particularly handle them gently - i did find it necessary as said earlier to rotate them more than i normally would in order to get the formed ball.
i also found it necessary to turn them once in the fryer during cooking (one of dippies tips).
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Cory - I just half filled a large saucepan with fresh vegetable oil (KTC big cardboard box variety). and heated it up to 125 degrees. I gently formed the bhajis into palm sized balls (with wet hands) and dropped them in. I then brought the temperature back up to around 130 - 140 degrees so they could cook for the full 8 - 10 minutes without going too dark.
Razor - you really dont want to be drawing the water out of the onions using salt. Infact it is quite the opposite. I think this has been one of the biggest breakthroughs of this last week. If you salt them they will go soft and you wont be able to get the air holes within the bhaji.
Hope this helps.
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Hi Chris,
Razor - you really dont want to be drawing the water out of the onions using salt. Infact it is quite the opposite. I think this has been one of the biggest breakthroughs of this last week. If you salt them they will go soft and you wont be able to get the air holes within the bhaji.
Ok, fair enough, I'm now convinced that this is a no no :) I will chop the onions the night before and see what that bring. I just felt that I'd used too much gram flour at the end making them a bit heavy. However, they were cooked all the way through, the addition of the extra flour just enabled me to shape them better.
Thanks for the tips guys.
Ray
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Hi Chris,
Razor - you really dont want to be drawing the water out of the onions using salt. Infact it is quite the opposite. I think this has been one of the biggest breakthroughs of this last week. If you salt them they will go soft and you wont be able to get the air holes within the bhaji.
Ok, fair enough, I'm now convinced that this is a no no :) I will chop the onions the night before and see what that bring. I just felt that I'd used too much gram flour at the end making them a bit heavy. However, they were cooked all the way through, the addition of the extra flour just enabled me to shape them better.
Thanks for the tips guys.
Ray
Razor ,
I've been trying to make decent Bhaji's for month's and still haven't succeeded :'( but too much Gram Flour will as you say make them too heavy and they struggle to float ! Just add enough Flour so the Onions stick together , not enough and they break up when frying :( Hopefully now with Axe's recipe my Bhaji's will improve ::)
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emin,
In all that I have experienced I think the one thing that stands out is the process and understanding of the cooking procedures. None of which should be ignored and play a significant part in the bhaji. Not withstanding that the the right amount of ingredients are also as important.
Technique, which I am lacking, is the final chapter. ;)
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Well after lots of failed attempts with onion Bhajis I had almost given up on them, but I thought I should give the IG Bhaji a go b4 I quit as I have spent many of curry evening there. the previous attempts didn't have the potato inside and what a diferance in texture, not stodgy in the middle they where very good !!
Thanks Axe great job! ;)
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Bob,
I'm glad it worked OK for you. I must admit, it does take a little practice to get them right. It's all about having just enough batter and working each step through. but once you have that mastered, your home and dry.
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These worked a treat Axe, thanks for the post. Definately the best by far I have made but I wasn't sure if the texture was right when trying to mould them into balls, the onions were very loose but plonked them into the fryer anyway and they held together far better than I thought they would. Taste was great too ;D
cheers
Will
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It is hard to explain the batter as the balance has to be right. The important part is making sure that you work the onion. Although on a smaller scale, I follow the IG steps exactly i.e. mixing each ingredient into the onion before adding the next. This helps to soften the onion.
The batter is also quite hard to get right as you an easily be fooled into thinking you need more liquid. But what actually happens is it loosens towards the end of mixing. you are lookign for a very sticky batter that has to be scraped from your hands. You need enough onion so that when mixed, there doesn't seem like enough batter to hold the onion.
Grab a bowl of water and wet both hands. Take a handful of the mixture and roll from hand to hand (this is simliar to how a chef would use two spoons to make a Quinnell). You should end up with a palm sized ball (about cricket ball sized)that feels heavy, but is smooth and round. Drop this into the deep fat fryer and away you go.
When you get the techinique down, you'll find you can knock them out quite quick. This helps to stop the first in from over cooking too.
I'm glad to hear you liked them, makes the blood and sweat all the more worth while. :)
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I've made these and they are the best bhaji's I've made yet.
Unfortunately though, I couldn't find aniseed and used fennel.
How much am I missing using fennel instead of aniseed?
Is it worth the extra search? And if there's an Indian name for aniseed that may help. I've never used this ingredient.
Thx,
Josh
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Josh,
You'd think that the difference between Aniseed and Fennel is very marginal and I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking otherwise. The differences are subtle in the seed but they do make a difference in the finished bhaji.
Its hard to really explain the difference but Aniseed has a more pure, clean, aniseed taste. It is much fresher and more delicate than Fennel and gives a slight warmth to the back of your mouth after eating. Its also alot smaller and incorporates itself much better into the mix.
Is it worth the extra search? YES
Like you I was using Fennel until I was pointed in the right direction for Aniseed. There's no going back now, it really does make a noticeable difference.
http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Indian-Food-Rajah-Greenfields-Aniseed.html (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Indian-Food-Rajah-Greenfields-Aniseed.html)
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I totally agree, I don't even really like the taste of aniseed, but it really put the finishing touches to the bhajis. I find they help sort of bring out the sweetness of the onions. Once you have tried them, you'll never turn back.
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Well I've just made my second batch of these to the reduced recipe provided by Axe:
4 Onions (size about 5cm diameter)
1 - 2 Cups Gram Flour
1 tbl Corriander Leaf
1/2 Sml Potato
1 Egg Beaten
1/2 tsp Aniseed
1/2 tsp Hot Chilli Powder
1/2 tsp IG Spice Mix (here: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4442.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4442.0))
1/2 tsp Salt
1 Drop Yellow Food Colouring (Optional)
In summary I had mixed results.
1. Aniseed. A pointless addition in my opinion, unless this is what you are accustomed to from your BIR. It was there, I could taste it, but it isn't something I am used to in bhajis and I don't really like it. But then again I don't hate it either!
2. Consistency. I made the best bhajis I have ever made. The only 'trick' for me though is the addition of egg which I had not tried previous to this recipe. The bhajis were really crispy and light and cooked all the way through. I don't like that raw looking onion-batter mix I've seen in some of the photos but this was cooked all the way through.
3. Potato. Well until I make another batch without the spuds I'm still not totally convinced about the need them but, there's no denying that this time the bhajis turned out really well with them in.
4. Flavour. There's really something wrong here. In my first attempt I scaled down the quantities in my head from the original recipe and the flavour was lacking in my opinion. I put this down to making an error in the scaling down.
I've now used the scaled version above and it is even worse! They were just so lacking in flavour. I could tell that the right sort of flavour was there but, it was just so muted and lacked the depth that I am used to in BIR bhajis.
I am surprised that people are raving about this bhaji so much. I can see no way I could have botched this one and as I say the texture for me was perfect but the flavour is a real let down!
Axe is the recipe above correct? Should those 1/2 tsp measures actually be tablespoons for example?
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SS, the Recipe is correct and the measurements whilst broken down from the main recipe are as close as I feel they can be.
I would suggest that you are used to a different style of onion bhaji if you feel the flavour is lacking. Have you got pictures of your finished bhaji?
I often add a chopped green chilli to give it a 'hit' but the flavour is always full enough for me. Did you use the IG Spice Mix?
You should be aiming to get the inside cooked as the one shown in the demo and Chris' last photo.
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SS,
I say the texture for me was perfect but the flavour is a real let down!
Wow, this is a real shocker. I've made loads of bhajis and the one thing about these that puts them above all the rest was the depth of flavour.
I used the IG spice mix just to make sure that it was as it was meant to be. My only error was that I added too much gram flour which made them slightly too heavy apart from that, they was on the money, for me anyway.
Ray :o
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Here's a couple of pics:
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/ab67f7928f2c28f222f9b32f754eb5e1.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#ab67f7928f2c28f222f9b32f754eb5e1.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/b8bb9e959ba0a8776a6b2e4f8bc8336f.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#b8bb9e959ba0a8776a6b2e4f8bc8336f.jpg)
I can see why you might be suggesting I'm after some different type of bhaji but, the problem is that I've had many BIR bhajis and none of them has had this lack of flavour. It's clear to me that it is underspiced, but as it's had such good reviews I can only think that this underspiced version is quite common - it's just that I've never had it apparently! ???
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If I may be so bold SS, There are a couple things that I notice from your pics. Mainly because through trial and error, I have had similar results.
It looks like the onion wasn't quite worked enough to be supple to form the bhaji properly. Hence the very loose make up of the bhaji itself. It is very hard to explain without showing someone but once worked, the onion becomes pliable enough to be gently formed. The final shaped bhaji prior to cooking should resemble a ball quite smooth and feel quite heavy. Though it is very important not to over work the onion.
More importantly, the bhaji seems to be holding alot of residual oil. This I found, is due to one of two possible things or a mix of both. Firstly, if the bhaji is cooked on too lower a heat, the batter does not seal properly and then soaks up alot of oil. Secondly, old oil can have a similar effect despite being to temperature. What is characteristic of both and this is the important bit, is that a loss of flavour will be noted.
Finally, to me the bhaji in the picture is over cooked. It could be that you have compensated for the points I have raised about the wrong temperature or old oil. Again this has the effect of reducing the final flavour as any spicing is cooked out. As you have noticed, there is a very fine balance of spicing in this recipe.
The only other thing that is vital to this recipe being cooked properly, is the consistency of the batter and ratio of batter to onion. I can not stress enough how sticky the batter should be and in ratio to onion, be just enough to hold the bhaji together.
Please don't think I am trying to teach you suck eggs, I only bring these points to note as I have been there before and know from experience how not to cook a bhaji.
If you persevere with this recipe and more importantly the method of the recipe, I know you will be very pleased with the finished goal, once you reach it.
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Just to add to that, it is important that you have wet hands when shaping the bhaji as this helps put a 'skin' on it, for the want of a better expression.
The final bhaji should have a bit of a sheen on it when cooked (correct me if I'm wrong Axe) and this is achieved with the wet hands method and gently manipulating the mix into a ball.
Like Axe, SS, I'm not trying to teach you how to suck eggs, as I know how proficient a cook that you are but, my attempt didn't look like yours, they did however, look like the ones from the IG illustrated in Axe's photo's, and the depth of flavour was sublime, very 80's IMO.
Ray :)
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Just to add to that, it is important that you have wet hands when shaping the bhaji as this helps put a 'skin' on it, for the want of a better expression.
Yes, very much so Ray. The drier batter can only be worked with wet hands which does help to form the bhaji.
It is definitely a game that is won or lost in the methodology. An almost unworkable batter produces that fluffy light interior, whilst the wet hands turns the unworkable batter into a workable batter on the outside.
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It looks like the onion wasn't quite worked enough to be supple to form the bhaji properly.
That's definitely the case Axe. I prefer it underworked as I am not aiming for the solid ball type of bhaji. I've never seen the solid ball type yet that doesn't have a slightly undercooked inner and I don't like that. I will try it though next time just to see what happens!
More importantly, the bhaji seems to be holding alot of residual oil.
It must just be the photo Axe because these were without doubt the least oily bhajis I've ever made and certainly less oily than most BIR bhajis! In fact the lack of oiliness was what I particularly liked about them.
Finally, to me the bhaji in the picture is over cooked
True I did overdo this one a bit. I actually made a better one but gobbled it down before taking pics!
As you have noticed, there is a very fine balance of spicing in this recipe.
I just can't agree with that Axe, the spicing is far far too little and no amount of any other technique will change that.
If you persevere with this recipe and more importantly the method of the recipe, I know you will be very pleased with the finished goal, once you reach it.
I'm pretty pleased now to be honest. This will never be a good bhaji for me though because, as I said, no amount of tinkering of technique refinement is going to address the lack of spice.
It would appear that we are indeed after very different things! ???
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SS,
When you say underspiced, do you mean not hot enough or that the variety of spicing is not enough? Either way, you can adjust that to suit, as you say, you are happy pretty much with everything else!
Ray :)
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SS,
When you say underspiced, do you mean not hot enough or that the variety of spicing is not enough? Either way, you can adjust that to suit, as you say, you are happy pretty much with everything else!
Ray :)
It's both Ray but mainly a lack of quantity of spice and therefore flavour. If I'd got this from a BIR I'd be really unimpressed as far as the flavour goes.
If you just look at the quantities involved...4 onions to 1.5 tsp of spice! I actually didn't need to make these to know that I would be unhappy with the flavour but I felt I had to make them at least once to spec just in case I was wrong.
You're right in that the spicing type and quantity can be adjusted to suit and that's exactly what I'll be doing but, I'm amazed that anyone finds these flavoursome. I wish more people would try them and report so that I can see if it's just me or not!
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Until you cook them properly SS, you will not know how they are meant to taste. Perhaps you would be better off trying Dipurajah's bhaji, it's probably a recipe more to your liking. Good luck with your quest.
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Thanks Axe I was intending to try dipuraja's next!
And the changes you've suggested are not going to increase what is insufficient spicing. They are underspiced and produce a poor result as a consequence.
Just for comparison here's two other recipes (onions and spices only):
Dipuraja's (3 onions to 7tsp spices)
2/3 medium onions
1 tsp methi leaves
1 tbsp mix powder (here: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4354.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4354.0))
1 tbsp Kashmiri Masala
Ashoka (via gazman) (2 onions to 4.5 tsp spices)
1tsp ground cumin
1tsp ground turmeric
1/2tsp chilli powder
2 onions, thinly sliced
2tsp coriander seeds, lightly crushed
Putting it more plainly, if we calculate it for one onion it is (onion : spices):
Dipuraja: 1 : 2.33
Ashoka: 1 : 2.25
IG: 1 : 0.38
Hopefully this will make it more clear that the ratio of onions to spices at 4 to 1.5 is considerably less by about 6 times than other BIR recipes.
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Well you can't please everyone. ::)
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Ok Guy's,
Suprised by SS's review of these, I've given them another go tonight, just to see if my first attempt was a fluke really.
Onions, Coriander and fennel seeds (again, didn't have aniseed)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/0c7766e61ed5251df3850678baf89fdc.JPG)
IG spice mix in
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/4a5f3679bf8d19686ff9e3f44eca1b51.JPG)
Spice mix and onions mixed.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/1a695f62bc3509196fc2de96d7613041.JPG)
Chilli powder and salt in
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/b61f98da3ea903e60918ad5572e56fe6.JPG)
Egg and food colouring in.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/9224bdeee5278f04ea357db3fa624507.JPG)
Gram flour in.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/9432aa991206d9fe4f682e848429a79a.JPG)
All mixed together.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/cc10fe1a1f231d46e5fcd3358f0cf24e.JPG)
Finished Bhaji's
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/f49f9f4352d0fe82f1c159299cf20ee2.JPG)
Cooked on the inside perfectly
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/73d1653cbf047f11d37d378bbe1c7803.JPG)
As far as spicing is concerned, I think it's about correct. The balance of the spicing is good for me being that, not one single spice stands out except maybe the fennel seed which I can take it or leave it.
The heat, no, these are not as hot as they were yesteryear and it was because of this, that they were a hit the first time around in my house, as they were made for the wife and kids also. Personally, I would prefer a bit more of a kick to them and will be taking Axe's advice next time and get some fresh chopped chillies in them.
All in all, I don't think that there is too much to change really, the flavour was there alright, even if there wasn't too much heat.
Axe, am I correct in thinking that this was your first guess on the scaled down version, or are you settling on this?
Ray :)
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Ray there looks to be a good bit more spice than 1.5 tsp in that. Or at least it looks more than I put in.
Either way at 1/6 of the spicing of other BIR bhajis, there's something wrong somewhere!
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Spot on Ray they look very good indeed. It was my first attempt at the breakdown and I have tweaked it a little only as much as to cut back on the egg. We use Large or Extra Large normally which is too much for this recipe, so I have cut that back to half a beaten egg. It lends itself better to the overall quantity.
From your pictures, you have certainly managed to get a better result. Crucially you have followed the recipe too which is the essential part. The Aniseed lends a little more bite and heat surprisingly, if you can get them, I would highly recommend it. Fennel however is a good second best.
The chopped chilli is good, I mean really good. The IG doesn't add extra heat purely for the fact that not everyone likes heat. Just you and I wouldn't add it for our kids. When its just the wife and I though, I have simply have to endulge in the odd green chilli or two or three. ;D
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SS,
Maybe it was the camera angle giving the illusion of more spicing? I defo stuck to the quantities. Maybe there wasn't as much onion in there I only had 3 when the recipe calls for 4 but they were largish?
And next time, I will cut the onion the day before, and try to get hold of aniseed to replace the fennel.
With that said, I really enjoyed them.
Ray :)
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For me, the overriding taste should be the onions, with the spices being there to compliment them and not overpower. That said, the amount of spicing is very much a personal taste, I like lots of spices (I assume like SS) but I can also appreciate the finer subtleties of a less spiced version.
My current incarnation is a combination of Dip and IG. I use 2 large onions, 2 tsp IG spice mix, 1 heaped tsp Kashmiri Masala, 1 egg, a handful of chopped fresh coriander, a squirt of lemon juice, probably around a tbsp of aniseeds, a tsp salt and a dash of asefoetida (plus chilli powder in mine). I don't have a lot of reason to want to move away from this recipe as it gives better results than the local takeaways.
A word of warning though, it's easy to become complacent. I had friends round for a takeaway last week and thought I'd impress with my bhajis. The first batch were damn good but the second had been sitting in the salt for 15 minutes which had softened the onions too much and watered down the batter. The results were back to grey doughy undercooked batter in the middle. There is a very fine line between beautiful results and disaster.
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I really enjoyed these bhaji last time I made them and am preparing to do so again.
Last time I used fennel, but wanted to use aniseed as recommended this time round.
I scoured my local indian grocer (as well as my "traditional" one) and could not find anise seed. In the indian grocer, I did manage to find and buy some ground aniseed.
Any strong opinions on whether I should use this or not? Anyone take a stab at how much ground aniseed would be substituted in the home scale-down of this recipe?
Thx,
Josh
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I really enjoyed these bhaji last time I made them and am preparing to do so again.
I'm genuinely surprised considering their lack of flavour! Did you do your own scaling of the amounts?
Last time I used fennel, but wanted to use aniseed as recommended this time round...Any strong opinions on whether I should use this or not?
It seems to be a matter of personal preference. I don't exactly dislike them but neither do they do anything for me - it's not something I'm used to in a bhaji. Others seem to insist that it's an essential.
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Onions vary massively in flavour and behavior as well as size. So recipes that advocate as their first ingredient "2-3 medium onions" are prone to massive variation - especially in taste. Water content, pungency and size all count as to the amount of spice added surely? It should taste of onion, so the spice is there to augment the onion, therefore the spicing depends on the onion itself.
Mike
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It's a good point Mike. There's no doubt that as the amount of spices added gets less, the more of an effect the onion has. Certainly an onion with a high sugar content will shine through with low spicing as it will caramelise more.
Perhaps the choice of onion is crucial with certain recipes?! ???
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I think it's just a case of if you want more spicing, add it in. As i've said before I often add chopped green chilli to give them a kick.
One of the comments made by the chef was that they don't eat the IG Bhaji as it is as they prefer more chilli. They explained that the level of spiucing is kept to a minimum to please all.
As Chris has mentioned, he adds the Kasmiri Masala Paste from DPR's recipe and he has found his Bhaji Mecca, so maybe that's all you need to SS.
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I made these again today, using the recipe to spec (except for using a mix of aniseed powder and smashed fennel seeds). I also upped the spice mix 50% after reading SS's comments. I also used JerryM's weights for the onion, potato and gram flour. I too much prefer weights, rather than "4 onions".
Unfortunately, these weren't nearly as good as the last batch I made. The taste itself was excellent, but the bhajis were too dense for my liking. I was very careful on the oil temperatures for the 1st and 2nd frying. I put it down to too much gram flour.
Last time I recall they were far more liquid, and remember fearing they would disintegrate dropping them into the oil. That time they didn't and I was very happy.
So what is the desired consistency for the final batter? How liquid should it be?
I love bhajis, but they haven't been a regular fixture for my cooking efforts, so I'd appreciate the input from some of the bhaji aficionados.
Thx,
Josh
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josh,
my weight of the flour could be out - i'm not sure either way. i think it's more likely the technique. i found it was impossible to get a tight ball without over crushing the bhajis mix.
i'd be more than happy though to reduce the amount of flour i use if u get anywhere in reducing it.
on my next go i intend prepping the onion the day before like i think IG do to see if the onion naturally softens a little over time (but without salt).
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I am thinking the same about prepping the onions the day before Jerry. Doing a Curry night Saturday for my free painter (son in law + my daughter & grandkids)(hope the kids are not painting ;D). When I made these everything was spot on but they were hard to shape and drop into the deep fat fryer(very loose) Axe said about working the onions more too soften them so will try that after 24 hrs in the fridge. So I will prep the onions Friday & make on Saturday.
Also I am wondering whether or not to make the curries Friday too to save time Saturday ( I have plenty of CA's excellent base in the freezer that I made last week). Will it be ok to make them & chill in the fridge for 1 day? The meat i will bbq or grill weather depending on Saturday?
The last bit is off topic a bit for thes thread I know but hey I just done 16h nightshift ::) and can't be bothered to look elsewhere ;).
Cheers Will
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I really wonder if the re-fry adds anything for taste, other than temperature and convenience.
The closest BIR to me cooks them on-demand from a bowl of batter. "Rush hours" are infrequent.
The consistency must be key. Mine where way too dense.
Not a knock on Jerry (i much prefer scientific weights>
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Next time I do the recipe I will weigh the onions in advance. I must admit, I hadn't given it much thought, but it is right to question as the amount of onion can be quite different. Though I have given a rough size, so that should help.
Crucially though, I have since realised that the one ingredient measure that needs to be right is the egg. The amount of egg defines how much gram flour you will need to to make a thick sticky batter. The problem here is that if you don't have enough onion, you end up with too much batter to onion and centres won't get cooked. We only ever have X-Large eggs in our fridge and I half this for the recipe. You are looking to have just enough batter to onion to hold it together. If you find you have too much batter, add another onion.
There shouldn't be any need to prepare the onions the day before, it really isn't necessary. I have produced near exact results at home as to the restaurants bhaji without doing so. As long as you work the onion stage by stage, it should be pliable enough when the mix is ready to be formed and cooked.
The final part is forming the baji. Take a handfull of the mix and form a ball but but don't squeeze it to hard, you need to roll or smooth it gently in wet hands from one hand to another. If all has gone well, you will be holding a surprisingly weighty bhaji that you feel may fall apart in the oil, but of course it won't.
The second cook process only serves to reheat the bhaji and help crisp it up. If you do second cook, gently squeeze or pull the bhaji to break it very slightly. You will get a much crispier bhaji if you use the second cook method.
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Getting the flour amount right is best done by eye. Weighing out your sliced onions every time would be very time consuming. My best advice would be start with very little flour (I use a 25/75 rice/gram flour mix) and slowly add in a bit more until you are left with a very sticky bowl of onions that will stick to your hands. Anyone with dense ball syndrome (sounds painful) has almost certainly added too much flour. It should look like you are deep frying a birds nest, not a golf ball.
I agree twice frying doesnt add anything, I only go for a single fry and leave them in the warming oven until needed.
I'm not as convinced as Axe on the amount of egg being a big factor but that might be due to me having a right balance with two big onions to 1 egg.
Prepping the onions the day before shouldn't alter the result at all. You want the onions to stay pretty hard to get the right consistancy. It's also worth noting you shouldn't slice the onions too thin. I asked my wife to prep them last time and she sliced them wafer thin. I think thats why the second batch failed - the onion was too soft.
Hope this helps. One day I'll get round to recording a video which should help explain everything.
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I'm really wanting to try these but haven't been able to find any aniseed :( I'm off to have a look at the asian supermarket tomorrow. I don't want to try them using fennel as a substitute given that so much has been made of the addition of the aniseed.
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Will,
i'd go for cooking anything the day before. i know fresh is best but cooking the curry and then using the microwave to reheat produces a decent result (u'd have to be really on the ball to spot the difference other than with a side by side comparison). just got top be careful with the meat.
on the bhajis - from what Axe's say's on the forming - this must be key. overwork and they are too dense, underwork them and they fall apart too much during the transfer to the fryer. something to practise.
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Will,
i'd go for cooking anything the day before. i know fresh is best but cooking the curry and then using the microwave to reheat produces a decent result (u'd have to be really on the ball to spot the difference other than with a side by side comparison). just got top be careful with the meat.
on the bhajis - from what Axe's say's on the forming - this must be key. overwork and they are too dense, underwork them and they fall apart too much during the transfer to the fryer. something to practise.
Thanks for that Jerry. I will prepare most things the day before apart from the meat. This I will bbq (chicken & lamb tikka) on the day. The Bhajis I will try to work more and also make the day before and give them their 1st fry.
cheers
Will
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I don't think re-heating meat is a problem, the problem is inadequately heating it so that bacteria are able to multiply. If you invest in a kitchen thermometer there is a formula (something like heating above 60c for 5 minutes - someone must know), and providing the meat / curry has been adequately refigerated there will not be a problem.
Re-heating rice is a different proposition altogether. I read once that the majority of food poisoning cases in the UK were down either to cold or re-heated rice or lettuce (bizarrely). Left over rice gets binned in my house.
Perhaps we need a food hygiene thread at some point??
Mike
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Will,
i'd even go for fully cooking the bhajis if u need (they're not bad reheated in the microwave or even perhaps in the oven if u have a lot).
the comment on the meat was aimed that u can easily over cook it in the microwave and i feel microwaves tend to make meat tough as well. keeping it separate and mixing in at serving is the way i get round the problem.
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Jerry,
I will do it all today and keep it in the fridge but the meat I will bbq or grill on the day just before serving up.
Cheers
Will
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I made a batch of these today though as I've had no luck in finding aniseed, i used fennel seed in place...I made up the mix as spec (minus the aniseed of course) and cooked a couple to test the spicing, I have to say I did find them to be underspiced but I rectified this by simply adding more :) though I didn't add more salt. Result was very pleasing indeed, lovely crisp bhajis and an improvement on my old recipe which I was more than happy with.
Thanks for the recipe Axe ;D I'll definitely be making more of these :) even without the aniseed :P
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I'm glad you enjoyed them Domi. They are mildly spiced I would agree though the Aniseed does boost them surprisingly, where the fennel doesn't seem to. The overall level of spice is personal choice, I simply add fresh green chilli to give it a bit more kick, but wouldn't be against adding more spice mix and chilli powder.
Anyway, glad you enjoyed them. :)
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I'll be adding the fresh chilli next time round, Axe. I had to put them away as I'd have had none left for tonight's curry lol so 'im indoors is a lover of them too ;D
**EDIT** piccy!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/xx_dominatrix_xx/IGBhaji.jpg)
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Brilliant technique - they turned out fantastic. Given what others have been saying I added a lot more more spice mix - and also fresh chillies and spinach (I just like them). Really simple and spot on. Thanks very much for posting this recipe.
Cheers
BB
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/5b6fbf973a928ab6d752fce41c9fef2c.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#5b6fbf973a928ab6d752fce41c9fef2c.jpg)
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Spinach eh? I'll mention it to the wife, I reckon she'll want to try that. Glad it worked for you Bobby. :)
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Spinach eh? I'll mention it to the wife, I reckon she'll want to try that. Glad it worked for you Bobby. :)
Thanks Axe, I thought it worth mentioning, the spinach is what I think has mine look noticeable darker, albeit otherwise similar to the chefs results, so if you decide to use spinach too don't worry that you've over cooked them - it darkens them up a fair bit compared to onion alone.
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Spinach eh? I'll mention it to the wife, I reckon she'll want to try that. Glad it worked for you Bobby. :)
Didn't know you were married to Olive Oyl, Axe :P
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Didn't know you were married to Olive Oyl, Axe :P
Axe neither did I, her low smoking point must be a nightmare! :P
Jesus wept, these Bhajis have got me farting like a b****rd! :D
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pmsl that must be a side-effect of the spinach then 'cos there's been no use for corks in our house this week lol
I take it you'll not be giving the sprout bhajis a try out then, BB? ;D
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pmsl that must be a side-effect of the spinach then 'cos there's been no use for corks in our house this week lol
I take it you'll not be giving the sprout bhajis a try out then, BB? ;D
Domi, if it'll get you to pop a cork up my offending orifice, I'll get the oil heated! Hahaha! ;D
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Didn't know you were married to Olive Oyl, Axe :P
I had to chuckle. I swear she is addicted to spinach though. ::)
Bobby, I guess you added to much extra spicing, that'll learn ya. :P
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pmsl that must be a side-effect of the spinach then 'cos there's been no use for corks in our house this week lol
I take it you'll not be giving the sprout bhajis a try out then, BB? ;D
Domi, if it'll get you to pop a cork up my offending orifice, I'll get the oil heated! Hahaha! ;D
PMSL ;D You get the oil and I'll get me calfing gloves out :P
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I made these the other day (snooker ball size). This is what I found:
- Colour and texture were very good indeed (i.e. nice and golden and crispy)
- They were cooked very nicely throughout (i.e. no "mushiness" in the middle). I put this down to the minimal use of liquids/pastes in the recipe
- The taste (i.e. starchiness) of the potato was quite evident (an Indian friend of mine even picked up on it immediately...unprompted!). It's not something I've ever detected in a BIR onion bhaji before....sorry to repeat that
- They were quite bland (I think more salt would be beneficial)
- They were "delicately" flavourled (I think more spice would be beneficial)
I also made a batch (at the same time) using Dipuraja's recipe (here: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4429.msg40528#msg40528 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4429.msg40528#msg40528)) and a batch using my own recipe (I haven't posted this, but it is somewhat similar to Chilli Prawn's recipe here: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1334.msg11866#msg11866 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1334.msg11866#msg11866))
Three other people sampled each of the three batches (they didn't know which was which, just that each was made using a different recipe) and gave me their views:
- One preferred Dipuraja's because they thought they were most flavoursome (albeit a little mushy, inside, I think because of the paste used)
- Two (including my Indian friend) preferred mine because they thought they were overall the best taste and texture
Having said that, they enjoyed them all!
Personally, I think the colour and texture of those made using this recipe were the best. I feel that a little more salt, and significantly more spice, would improve them. I remain unconvinced about adding potato. I am not sure if that's why their colour and texture were better or not (Dipuraja's were a little mushy inside and they contain potato...and paste). As I've said, I've currently put this down to the minimal amount of liquid/paste in the recipe.
I will make them again, with more salt and spice, and compare them with and without potato...
Thanks for sharing the recipe Axe 8)
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CA,
it is real good fun doing such like comparison. i think we did Dipuraja v Chilli Prawn and Dipuraja v IG. there was no overall consensus in our family with a split vote down to personal preference.
the important thing now is that i think our bhajis for sure give the best BIR's a run for their money.
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I agree Jerry, my bhajis now beat most BIR's. I think the biggest lesson learned from IG is the cooking method. Once that is perfected the mix of spices can be changed around depending on personal taste. I now swear by a recipe that is somewhere between Dip and IG. I like the added taste of the Kashmiri Masala but I also love the subtle heat of the aniseed.
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Thanks for the comments CA, i'm glad you gave them a go. Spicing level is definitely a personal choice. I always add fresh green chilli to the recipe, which I find gives it a little more body and certainly bite, without affecting the balance of flavours too much. I would certainly recommend trying this. I have tried adding more spice mix but find this makes the taste heavy and detracts from the delicate flavours from the aniseed.
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I always add fresh green chilli to the recipe, which I find gives it a little more body and certainly bite, without affecting the balance of flavours too much. I would certainly recommend trying this.
I appreciate what you're saying Axe. And I understand (more and more so) that people's perceptions of what constitutes a BIR onion bhaji (or, indeed, any other BIR curry dish) varies enormously.
For me, adding aniseed, fresh chillies or potatoes (or lentils, or ajwain seeds) to an onion bhaji takes it away from what I (in my personal experience) constitutes a typical, traditional, BIR onion bhaji.
The moral of the story is, I suppose, "each to their own".....
For me, given the "correct" cooking method (which I think is not too elaborate but simply ensuring the oil is hot enough to cook them throughout and not so hot that it cooks them too quickly, or burns them, and perhaps double cooking them) the main "lesson" learnt is to minimise the liquid content of the mixture (thereby minimising the "mushiness" inside the bhajis).
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For me, adding aniseed, fresh chillies or potatoes (or lentils, or ajwain seeds) to an onion bhaji takes it away from what I (in my personal experience) constitutes a typical, traditional, BIR onion bhaji.
The moral of the story is, I suppose, "each to their own".....
BIR is constantly changing and not all the changes are a step backwards. Whilst the IG bhajis may not be the "traditional old style bhaji", they are (for me) better tasting, better consistency and definitely my forum fave bhaji recipe at this time. I don't really care what ingredients go into them as long as A. they taste good and B. are an improvement on previous recipes, the IG recipe ticks both boxes, tradition or no ;D
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hi all,
i have tried this recipe and although very good. can i ask the question is the scaled down version of the onions at 4 at 5cm diamater (because that is four massive spanish onions) i would need two mixing bowls to fit all that in. I stopped at two 5cm diamater onions because it filled one mixing bowl and used the spice measurements of the scaled down versions with the green chillies. i thought the cooking time and finished result was excellent but bland in the spice department. i have read through most of this thread and came across razors pics who is using what looks like the same mixing bowl from (asda) as me but his proprtion of spices to onion of mine was totally different he appears to have used half the onion as was in my bowl. Could anyone weigh the onion you are using for this recipe as i think this is where both me and SS are getting this wrong in the taste dept.
thanks, moonster
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sorry,
cant believe i have made that mistake lol. just realised i have been using 5 inch diamater onions as opposed to 5 cm.
:o
i wonder if SS done the same ;D
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Hi Moonster, cm's and inches make all the difference mukka, just ask my wife :P
So, how did you find these bhaji's overall? I think the technique is perfect and is, in my opinion, top quality BIR grade. The spicing is personal preference. I like mine hot, so now use fresh chilli as standard.
It's quite timely that you have made these. I don't know if you are aware but here on cr0, we have a band of recipe testers and bhaji's are next on the list. Once the chicken tikka recipe results have been published, we'll get cracking on these as soon as.
Ray :)
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i have been using 5 inch diamater onions...i wonder if SS done the same ;D
Jesus, Joseph and Mary!
I don't think I've ever seen a 5 inch onion, never mind used one. You aren't from land of the giants are you?
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;D lol at both SS and Razor. i think they might be mutated onions on teesside due to all the smog in the air :o.
seriously though that was what i was using. I am making some more up tomorrow with the correct size onions so they should be good this time in the spice dept.
regards moonster
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due to all the smog in the air :o.
I did a double take when I read that! All I'll say is that I didn't read it as 'smog'. ;D
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Moonster, the spicing level in the scaled down IG recipe is quite low. As Ray has said, it's great for people who are not so keen on hot food. I always add fresh green chilli for instance.
I am amazed at how much bjaji's vary from restaurant to restaurant. I had some the other day that were loaded with Ajwain, a more traditional ingredient perhaps, but it was far to over powering and threw them away! Not something I have ever, ever, done before.
I never knew onions could get so big until I popped in our local Indian Grocers. They had what looked like Spanish Onions but the size of a small melon! I have never seen anything like it. Mind you, there was quite alot of veg I had never seen before as well.
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I made these last night for the second time but I was going to try chriswg's version but I couldn't get any kashmiri massalla.
Anyway I used aniseed for the first time which I managed to find on my local market. I have just realised I made a mistake - I halved the onion amount to 2 but never halved the spices ::) and I also added 2 red chillies.
Result was probably the best Onion bhaji I have ever made or indeed tasted. I think the aniseed is the key instead of fennel seed & not halving on the spices was a good mistake to make ;D
thanks again Axe
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I'm glad it worked out for you. I do think that the original recipe that was broken down could probably do with updating. The amounts were estimated based on the volume I watched them used but had no specific weights.
The aniseed makes quite a difference to the finished bhaji. I haven't done Chris' version as yet but anticipate it being rather tasty. The IG recipe is certainly a good base to start from to find your own flavours and preferences.
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Tried these many times now and have gradually increased spice mix and have got almost perfect results.Many friends have said how good they are.
LOVE EM WELL DONE
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I'm gonna give these a go later today.
OT slightly but I'm looking for a deep fat fryer for bhajis and Pakoras - can anyone reccommend one with a temp guage for this kind of thing
Thanks Axe for this great thread mate :)
Cheers
Mak
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Just tried these, brilliant!