Curry Recipes Online
Curry Base Recipes => Curry Sauce, Curry Base , Curry Gravy Recipes, Secret Curry Base => Topic started by: mickdabass on June 17, 2022, 04:22 PM
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MDB’s Birmingham Balti Gravy 100% Clone Al Frash Balti Restaurant and simple Balti Recipie
For the Gravy you will need:
• Stick Blender
• A fine sieve
• Weighing Scales
• 1 Large Pan with lid for onions
• 1 Small/Medium pan with lid for Akhni Stock
• 1 medium pan for garlic ginger, chopped tomatoes & spice mix
Ingredients:
Vegetable oil – not olive oil
1 kg onion, roughly chopped
1 tsp salt
small pinch Ajwain seeds
1/2 green and 1/2 red pepper, chopped
125g fresh carrot, roughly chopped
Whole Spices:
Weigh 55g pieces of cassia bark (I know it sounds a lot but trust me…)
5 cloves
10 green cardamom pods pierced
3 star anise
5 tej patta (Indian bay leaves) dried DON’T use normal bay leaves – omit instead
Spice Mix:
2 tsp chilli powder (optional)
2.5 tsp coriander powder
1.5 tsp cumin powder
3 tsp turmeric powder
2.5 tsp curry powder
a good pinch kasuri methi (dried Fenugreek Leaves)
2 tsp garam masala powder
Large handful fresh coriander
30g peeled fresh garlic
30g peeled fresh ginger
250g of chopped tomatoes
Note (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=47533.msg185420#msg185420) from MDB: powdered spices are rounded teaspoons, and the cassia is in 1" pieces maximum.
Method:
Take the large pan and add:
1 chefs spoon vegetable oil
1 kg onion, roughly chopped
1 tsp salt
1pint cold water
1/2 green and 1/2 red pepper, chopped
125g fresh carrot, roughly chopped
Bring to the boil. Cover and simmer for 1 hr stirring frequently
While the onions are cooking:
take:
whole spices,
Drop these into the second pan, along with 1 pint of water and simmer with lid on for an hour stirring occasionally to make an Akhni Stock
While that's simmering take:
30g peeled fresh garlic (bash with side of knife to make peeling easy)
30g peeled fresh ginger (I peel with teaspoon)
Using a blender, make into a paste with a small amount of oil.
Add to the third pan: with 100ml of vegetable oil.
Heat on medium and stir until it becomes lightly golden in colour.
If it starts to catch on the bottom of the pan, SLOWLY pour a small amount of hot water from the kettle into the pan and stir well to loosen.
This process takes about 10 -15 minutes.
Take off the heat, leave it to cool for a minute and add the spice mix.
Stir well, and return to a very low heat.
Add the chopped tomato, add approx. 300ml (1/2 pint) of hot water into the mixture, and bring back to the boil, stirring constantly.
Once it has boiled for about 1-2 minutes pour into large pan of onions
Strain the Akhni Stock from the second pan through the fine sieve directly into the large pan of onions
discard the whole spices.
stir well
boil for around 5 minutes.
Leave to cool before adding the coriander leaves, and then blend well
Add additional water to desired gravy consistency.
The Gravy is now ready to use.
Once cooled, it can be stored in the refrigerator for 4-5 days without any problem
To make balti:
No need for additional ground spices or extra salt!
Ingredients:
Cooking Oil - any will do except olive oil
¼ medium onion Finely chopped
¼ medium tomato Finely chopped
Garlic Paste
Roughly chopped fresh coriander (to taste) I use quite a lot!!
Naan (I really like Riyas ready cooked naans from Asda. I drench them under a tap and then place in a pre-heated oven at 200C for 3 minutes)
https://groceries.asda.com/product/naan-breads-chapattis/riyas-original-recipe-3-garlic-coriander-naan-bread/910002370521
Method:
In a frying pan on medium heat add 1 chef spoon oil
add onion
When just starting to go brown around the edges
add 1/2 tsp minced garlic
Once the spitting has stopped
Add 1/2 large raw chicken breast diced into 1inch cubes (pre-cooked chicken can be used but add after 3rd reduction to avoid overcooking)
Turn up heat
Add 1st ladle gravy
Reduce well until oil starts to separate
Add 2nd ladle gravy
add the chopped tomato
Reduce well until oil starts to separate
Add 3rd ladle gravy, stir in chopped fresh coriander and reduce to desired consistency
finish on low heat until chicken is cooked
Leave to stand for a few minutes and serve with hot naan.
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Thank you Mick. The chicken bhuna masala (https://fatimacooks.net/chicken-bhuna/) from "Fatima cooks" is next on my list to try, having had three uniformly awful bhunas from three local BIRs, after which I will be trying your recipe.
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** Phil.
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So is it a 100% clone because you've eaten at Al Frash and your version is exactly the same?
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So is it a 100% clone because you've eaten at Al Frash and your version is exactly the same?
Yes SS it is. Its been a couple of three years since I ate there, and I have done so probably half a dozen times but the last time I went it was
pretty moody and we didnt feel at all safe, but I honestly believe it is a 100% clone.
Unfortunately Al Frash is now long gone so...
Regards
Mick
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Thank you Mick. The chicken bhuna masala (https://fatimacooks.net/chicken-bhuna/) from "Fatima cooks" is next on my list to try, having had three uniformly awful bhunas from three local BIRs, after which I will be trying your recipe.
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** Phil.
Hi Phil
Thats a shame about the bhunas. I am struggling to find a decent restaurant locally. My favourite restaurant has gone seriously down hill in my estimations since lockdown.
Bhuna is one of my favourites too.
Please give my balti a try, and I look forward to your constructive comments
Regards
Mick
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Yes SS it is. Its been a couple of three years since I ate there, and I have done so probably half a dozen times but the last time I went it was
pretty moody and we didnt feel at all safe, but I honestly believe it is a 100% clone.
Unfortunately Al Frash is now long gone so...
Regards
Mick
Wow, Mick, not feeling safe?! What happened?
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What happened?
Birmingham.
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Unfortunately Al Frash is now long gone so...
Well I never had a balti from there so I wouldn't know the difference. But I'm tempted to try the base if only because of the mental amount of cassia in it. Are you sure you didn't drop a decimal point?
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Birmingham.
Ah, I see what you mean!
Well I never had a balti from there so I wouldn't know the difference. But I'm tempted to try the base if only because of the mental amount of cassia in it. Are you sure you didn't drop a decimal point?
I wondered that too, but there is an almost-confession in the recipe...
55g pieces of cassia bark (I know it sounds a lot but trust me…)
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Yes SS it is. Its been a couple of three years since I ate there, and I have done so probably half a dozen times but the last time I went it was
pretty moody and we didnt feel at all safe, but I honestly believe it is a 100% clone.
Unfortunately Al Frash is now long gone so...
Regards
Mick
Wow, Mick, not feeling safe?! What happened?
It was a gang of lads singing a Beatles song that particularly unnerved me.
I didnt get it straight away.....
Perhaps Im just paranoid??
Never liked the Beatles anyway.
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Unfortunately Al Frash is now long gone so...
Well I never had a balti from there so I wouldn't know the difference. But I'm tempted to try the base if only because of the mental amount of cassia in it. Are you sure you didn't drop a decimal point?
No The Cassia is the Key ingredient. It took me a long time to realise that my first Eureka moment a couple of months ago was down to accidentally overdosing the Kushi recipe with a massive piece of cassia. You could have made a canoe out of it lol.
Just trust me on this one
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Nice one Mick! Like the sound of this recipe. What is the Garam Masala you used?
Rob
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Nice one Mick! Like the sound of this recipe. What is the Garam Masala you used?
Rob
Hi Rob
It was East End I think - not home made
Thanks
Regards
Mick
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Thanks Mick. Made a batch of the gravy last night, to spec. A rather wonderful aroma lingering in the kitchen this morning. Balti Chicken planned for tonight.
Rob
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Wow! Didn't think I'd see the day. The Birmingham Balti nailed. 10/10. Depth of flavour is completely off the chart.
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I was thinking of making this and while perusing the ingredients I noticed that the base has no tomato and the curry has only a tiny amount of fresh tomato. Is that right as it's quite unusual?
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I was thinking of making this and while perusing the ingredients I noticed that the base has no tomato and the curry has only a tiny amount of fresh tomato. Is that right as it's quite unusual?
There is 250 g of tomato in the base's spice mix.
Rob
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I was thinking of making this and while perusing the ingredients I noticed that the base has no tomato and the curry has only a tiny amount of fresh tomato. Is that right as it's quite unusual?
There is 250 g of tomato in the base's spice mix.
Rob
Ah yes, that well known spice ... tomato!
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I was thinking of making this and while perusing the ingredients I noticed that the base has no tomato and the curry has only a tiny amount of fresh tomato. Is that right as it's quite unusual?
There is 250 g of tomato in the base's spice mix.
Rob
Ah yes, that well known spice ... tomato!
Get on with it :) It's top drawer balti.
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Wow! Didn't think I'd see the day. The Birmingham Balti nailed. 10/10. Depth of flavour is completely off the chart.
Thanks for giving it a try. :like: :like:
Glad you enjoyed it :pit:
Kind Regards
Mick
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This recipe seems worth trying, thanks. To give it the best chance of producing a 100% clone, should I use level, rounded or heaped spoon measures?
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This recipe seems worth trying, thanks. To give it the best chance of producing a 100% clone, should I use level, rounded or heaped spoon measures?
Hi George
I use rounded tea spoon measures
Kind Regards
Mick
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It's pouring rain again here today as this year's 4th East Coast Low pressure system develops off the coast. What better to do than cook a Birmingham Balti. I've been looking forward to trying this and it's certainly getting good reviews.
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Mick - many thanks. I look forward to trying your balti recipe, together with Misty Ricardo's recipe on youtube, based on chicken balti at Shababs, Birmingham. I have enjoyed chicken balti at Shababs twice and it was quite good. Other baltis I tried at various other BIRs were lacklustre.
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My first impression having now tried the base and the accompanying basic curry is that it was, for me, a bit bland. There was flavour there from the aromatics but in general the base didn't taste all that different from many other bases I've made.
I realised reading the latter posts that I used exact teaspoon measures rather than "rounded" so it may have had a bit more oomph if I'd not missed that. But the curry reminded me of the vindaloo I made from Chef Din's base by his method where again there are no added spices in the curry. The base is the curry.
I think if korma is a "curry" you like then this base/curry combination will appeal but if you're a madras, vindaloo type of person like me, it's a bit meh. I'll try it again with added mix powder as I did with Chef Din's which made his palatable from originally being bland. And of course add more chilli powder. And for those that haven't made it yet, really go to town on the staggered reduction as that's mainly where the flavour is coming from.
Oh and against my best judgement I did use raw chicken rather than precooked. It produce the bland chicken flavour I know goes with essentially cooking it in base sauce and that didn't help the overall impression. But that was down to me not using precooked as I should have.
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Good to know. I got the gravy done yesterday and I'll try a couple of different curries today, including the recommended one as written and then some standards.
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I have the week off, taking a few days after the Fourth of July holiday we get here and plan on having a bash at this. I am 100% a vindaloo guy so now a little wary after Santa’s post but we shall see. Got my grill set up, summer is here and that means outdoor curry cooking for me.
Robbo
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I am 100% a vindaloo guy so now a little wary after Santa’s post but we shall see.
I wouldn't let what I said put you off. It's a decent enough base but using it to make a curry without any further spices such as mix powder and chilli powder, as it is in the basic recipe given, doesn't cut it for me. I think I'll try again tonight but with the extras I need and making sure to really concentrate on the reductions where the flavours are developed.
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All I am getting is Balti perfection. To spec, with 2 tsp regular chilli power in the base spice mix, it's nice and spiky too, close to madras strength. Perfect, seriously.
Rob
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Thanks guys for giving it a go - I appreciate it!
I can take the criticism without getting all stroppy - after all its you lot who really know their stuff.
You need to do some pretty serious reducing when you make this curry so you extract as much flavour from the gravy that you can
A couple of things I am considering tweaking is:
1. Break the cassia up into pieces no longer than 1" to increase the infusion
2. mix g&g paste with chopped toms and water and add straight to onions without simmering. After all they are going to get fried to within an inch of their lives anyway!
In previous versions I have adjusted the powdered spices upwards and to be honest they just kill it stone dead.
Its more to do with the aromatics as SS says ie whole spices
I watched a little bit of the Shabab video with Rusty Meccano and the chef says they blitz the whole spices into the gravy. I once did that by mistake many moons ago and it made the gravy unusable. Then again these pro guys use outboard motors for blitzing - not some crappy little toy from Argos like I use!
Thank you again Bob for your positive comments - to my taste it is exactly like the Baltis I have eaten.
Quite mild with a great depth of flavour. Too much chilli would mask all of that imo.
Its a completely different animal to a vindaloo for sure!
In fact its a completely different animal from any other curry any way
Kind Regards
Mick
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I'm afraid I'm with Santa. The gravy part makes a good gravy but the curry is missing the most important thing. Flavour. Even bumped up with a big heaped tsp of Madras curry paste (loveitspicy, aka backyard chef) it was still needing more. I also made a butter chicken with 1 tbsp of Pataks commercial paste, tomato puree, cream and kasoori methi and it was also still wanting for more. Nice edible dishes but not what I was hoping for after reading the reviews.
I made half quantity gravy with all spices rounded upwards or barely reduced at all, so I didn't skimp on anything. Good gravy but you still need to use a full BIR recipe to use it.
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A couple of things I am considering tweaking is:
I did find the 3 pot method a bit of a faff. Certainly if I did this again I wouldn't faff about making a separate akhni stock. Instead I'd bundle the spices in a bit of muslin cloth and just throw that in with the onions. And maybe fry off the garlic/ginger paste in the onion pot and then add the water, onions etc. I don't think it would impact the flavour at all. Actually, thinking about it, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be simpler to just leave out the akhni stock and instead dump a teaspoon or so of garam masala and some ground cassia in right at the end of cooking.
In previous versions I have adjusted the powdered spices upwards and to be honest they just kill it stone dead.
Its more to do with the aromatics as SS says ie whole spices
It must be to do with what we're used to in our "normal" curries. Having just made the curry again but this time with a teaspoon of plain curry powder and a teaspoon of chilli powder, it made a much rounder, more full-bodied curry that was quite enjoyable.
Thank you again Bob for your positive comments - to my taste it is exactly like the Baltis I have eaten.
Quite mild with a great depth of flavour. Too much chilli would mask all of that imo.
Ok so we'll have to agree to disagree on the "great depth of flavour" but tell me, what do the balti houses do if you want vindaloo strength balti? Or is that not a thing? This is all quite interesting to me as, despite being a Brummie born and bred, I can't recall ever having had an "authentic" balti, so I'm not qualified to judge.
Its a completely different animal to a vindaloo for sure!
In fact its a completely different animal from any other curry any way
Yes, no argument there. Although, on the assumption I actually made it right, I'm a little perplexed as to why it ever caught on.
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I'm afraid I'm with Santa.
I think you're in the same boat as me. You have to have been brought up on baltis for it to impress, and neither of us have.
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In fact its a completely different animal from any other curry any way
Interesting comment. That was my thought when I visited Shababs (twice) and had their chicken balti. So I think it bodes well for your recipe and Misty Ricardo's.
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Interesting comment. That was my thought when I visited Shababs (twice) and had their chicken balti. So I think it bodes well for your recipe and Misty Ricardo's.
Come on George, less talking, more doing.
As you've actually tasted the real thing I'm interested to hear your feedback.
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Hi George
Thanks for the positive comment. I look forward to reading your verdict. Just one thing: who is the moderator for this page as I would like to tweak my recipe slightly ie rounded tsp powdered spices and breaking up cassia into 1" max lengths ?
SS You're right about the muslim cloth, but I thought with the large amount of cassia used, it would be more practical to make the akhni stock instead of adding a muslim football to the pan.
Ground cassia - theres an idea. Can you buy it pre ground? I only have a mortar & pestle so washing an extra pan is less of a faff to me than bashing seven shades of s**t out with a m&p
Livo you are also correct - I am not a Vindaloo man A madras is about as much as I can handle- Im too much of a wimp to manage one. Anyway isnt a vindaloo simply a bog standard curry with a couple of pieces of spud in it, a slice of lemon and a shed load of chilli/naga paste etc? :confusing: Idk. Im sure that logically a vindaloo Balti is just a balti with the above additions? No need to worry about depth of flavour as the taste of the chilli would mask that out - well it would for me anyway as Id be too busy crying in the dunny etc. :lol: :lol:
Thank goodness we are all different Ebony & Ivory peace & love etc
Oh by the way I dont class a Korma as a curry either so perhaps theres hope for me yet!!
Kind Regards
Mick
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I didn't have a problem with 3 pots. My lasagne is 3 big pots and way more mess. Just so you know, my cassia bark was all the broken bits from the bottom of the container. I don't think the base gravy part is the issue at all. In fact it's a good gravy. I'm not a vindaloo person either and I enjoy flavoursome, but not hot, curries. I can eat vindaloo but I prefer to limit heat to madras level. I'm sure I'll make a good balti with my home made balti paste, although I'll definitely be pre-cooking the chicken.
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who is the moderator for this page as I would like to tweak my recipe slightly ie rounded tsp powdered spices and breaking up cassia into 1" max lengths ?
Onions (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=22732)is your man, Mick.
Ground cassia - theres an idea. Can you buy it pre ground? I only have a mortar & pestle so washing an extra pan is less of a faff to me than bashing seven shades of s**t out with a m&p
Possibly worth trying a £9.99 Lidl coffee grinder — I've yet to find anything with which mine can't cope ...
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** Phil.
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I didn't have a problem with 3 pots.
Well that's my engineering mindset going into optimisation mode. I wanted to do it per the instructions but as I was making it I could see that I could get away with a two pot method and as I thought a bit more I could envisage getting it all done in one pot. At that point the three pot method became a faff.
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Possibly worth trying a £9.99 Lidl coffee grinder — I've yet to find anything with which mine can't cope ...
I've got a £9 no-name "grinder" off eBay that has stood me in good stead for a few years. The problem is that it's actually a chopper because it's got blades. As good as that is for certain things it can never make a powder as fine as shop bought powders. For that it has to actually grind not cut. Is your Lidl version a grinder or a chopper?
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A chopper, Santa — real "burr" grinders start at about £23 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Electric-Charging-Stainless-Adjustment-Himalayan/dp/B08ZDF5PFD/).
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No doubt you could optimise the cooking of the gravy. Debatable if the garlic ginger 15 minute fry in oil is really necessary, because it's going to be a second pot if it is, unless you do it first and remove from oil to add back in later.
I've got a KitchenAid coffee grinder (blades) and it does a pretty good powder even from cassia and cinnamon. Passes through a fine sieve no problem. The KichenAid has a separate attachment for spices (mine is the coffee version), but again not available in Australia and KitchenAid USA refused to supply me one. I've always wanted to get one of the choppers you see in the videos from India, but I've never seen one over here. They look like a jug blender and really go.
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Just one thing: who is the moderator for this page as I would like to tweak my recipe slightly ie rounded tsp powdered spices and breaking up cassia into 1" max lengths ?
Mick
Done that for you MDB, apologies for delay :like:
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Thanks Onions - thats great
Kind Regards
Mick
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I made a really nice curry (Balti) with this gravy following similar method and ingredients as recommended, with the raw chicken breast. I made it about 3 - 4 times the quantity using 1 1/2 breasts (probably about 400g), 1 whole tomato and a good handful of diced red and green capsicum. To give it some flavour I added a good 1.5 TBSP of my home made Balti paste and a heaped tsp of Madras curry paste, along with a bout half a cup of Tomato Passata. Finished with some Kasoori methi. Lovely.
2 chopped onions into oily pan (2 TBSP)
add 2 large cloves crushed garlic
Add pastes and fry briefly adding a little water followed by tomato puree and then some gravy
Add chicken and capsicum
3 stages of reduction / more gravy with tomato going in on the last one. Ended up using about 600 ml of gravy.
Kasoori methi just before finishing.
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Is this a Birmingham Balti? If it isn't I don't know what is!!!
No way I'm going to get that heat on my cooker. I could on the 3 ring propane camp burner (maybe).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAd5dM0u7Ss&t=406s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAd5dM0u7Ss&t=406s)
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Thanks Livo
Glad you enjoyed it!
Kind Regards
Mick
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I tried to do a one pot special last night. The g&g paste worked ok but had to be added early on in the cooking process - say within the first half hour or so to cook out the rawness.
I put the whole spices in a muslin cloth about the size of a bed sheet lol and buried it in the stewing onions, stirring it regularly. I added the powdered spices and chopped tomato towards the end of the hour, then the fresh coriander immediately prior to the blitzing.
The final results were so disappointing - bland ,tasteless and lacking any depth of flavour at all
I ended up having to boil up the contents of the muslin bedsheet in a dreaded third pot :omg: and make an akhni stock as per the original recipe.
Final result - 100% Brummie bir!!!
I was on bookface the other day on the balti club page and admin was cooking a Chicken Pathia Balti (Madras hot) in a £28 (probably including commission) birmingham balti bowl.
I asked him if he classes his curry as a balti because its cooked in a balti bowl and he said yes so I think that sorts out all these bastardised baltis then. Cook a crap curry in a pressed steel bowl and voila...you have created a balti :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Mick, Firstly, I didn't have any issue with the 3 pot gravy, especially considering one was just water based (stock). The second one was a small pot with G&G cooked in oil. You don't want to burn that one so no issue there either. If you can't do 2 or 3 pots at once, get out of the kitchen. The thing is that I knew it was going to be a good gravy and it is, really good. Excellent in fact. The first attempt at cooking with it was a bit bland (for me & Santa anyway). Up the ante with some flavour and it's a great curry base. Considering I used mainly Balti paste (could have left out the Madras kick, but it was good), it produced what I can only consider to be a first rate Balti dish.
Don't give up on it Santa. Plus, considering it was a 1 hour base gravy (even though it was 3 pots), it's still a really quick dinner without the requirement of pre-cooked chicken. It's a winner winner chicken dinner for me.
Try some pastes (or balti masala spices) in it next time. You won't be disappointed.
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Is this a Birmingham Balti? If it isn't I don't know what is!!!
No way I'm going to get that heat on my cooker. I could on the 3 ring propane camp burner (maybe).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAd5dM0u7Ss&t=406s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAd5dM0u7Ss&t=406s)
Yes livo that's the real deal from Shebabs in the balti triangle where balti was first concocted. I have to say I've never seen that much flame before though. You probably can reproduce it if you use a substantially smaller pan on the highest flame you have and probably a much smaller curry portion. I've had flame like that, although not sustained, in a normal frying pan on a normal hob so it must be achievable at home. But most hobs at home have an extractor not far above them so I'm not sure it'd be a good idea safety wise. Your camping burner in the open should easily be able to do it I would think.
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Don't give up on it Santa.
I haven't really given up on it but I'm intrigued now as to how much difference that sustained flame makes to the final flavour. I'm going to have to get a suitable small "balti" dish and give it a go.
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Cook a crap curry in a pressed steel bowl and voila...you have created a balti :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
That's what 99% of BIRs do though. It's sad.
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I've got a few aluminium "Balti" pans but I'd be reluctant to try that and I think my wife would have a hissy fit. They're serving dishes really.
I won't be getting the stamped Birmingham Balti pans out here, but I do, however, have a completely appropriate, small, flat bottomed, steel wok that would suffice quite well. I really think that all the flame and fluff is a bit of a show really though. How much of the heat from above (combusting oil splatter) is really doing anything to the food. The cooking is coming from beneath in my opinion. Might cut down on the stove splatter though I guess.
Put some of your usual cooking preference into Mick's base gravy. You will enjoy it.
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Was just looking at Shebabs website and right on their home page is a quote from a customer, "Wanted to order a meat madras but had to order a meat balti and pay extra to have it madras strength upon arrival and tasting there was no flavour and no madras heat tasted bland.
Was expecting alot more from the balti triangle establishment.???? "
Sort of confirms exactly what I thought when I tried the standard curry. I distinctly get the impression that balti equates to blandness.
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I really think that all the flame and fluff is a bit of a show really though. How much of the heat from above (combusting oil splatter) is really doing anything to the food.
In general I agree with you however I've never seen that sort of flame sustained throughout the cooking process. I feel that must have an effect.
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Was just looking at Shebabs website and right on their home page is a quote from a customer, "Wanted to order a meat madras but had to order a meat balti and pay extra to have it madras strength upon arrival and tasting there was no flavour and no madras heat tasted bland.
Was expecting alot more from the balti triangle establishment.???? "
Pretty brave of them to put a review like that on their front page! Is this the place? -https://www.shababs.co.uk/ (https://www.shababs.co.uk/)
...Malwarebytes blocks it on my machine due to a risky connection. Perhaps it knows the difference between a curry and a balti too :)
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I asked him if he classes his curry as a balti because its cooked in a balti bowl and he said yes so I think that sorts out all these bastardised baltis then. Cook a crap curry in a pressed steel bowl and voila...you have created a balti :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
That seems to answer my question from elsewhere! :) probably an excuse to charge a quid more for it an all!
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I really think that all the flame and fluff is a bit of a show really though. How much of the heat from above (combusting oil splatter) is really doing anything to the food.
In general I agree with you however I've never seen that sort of flame sustained throughout the cooking process. I feel that must have an effect.
Just for show I feel. Not needed. I don't use the word perfection lightly and have achieved it with Mick's recipe on a domestic kitchen hob. It was nice to see base gravy in the video link though. It doesn't seem that long ago it was everything fresh, nothing pre-cooked, no base gravy, fresh, fresh, fresh. As mentioned earlier, it's basically cafe food, quick and easy prep. I have never seen a video of a Birmingham Balti house kitchen turning out, say, 50-100 covers. It's always a demonstration. Not a bad thing. Good marketing. How it's actually done wouldn't have the same ring to it.
Rob
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Out of interest, for those who have tried this, how much Akhni stock reduction did you see when making it? I noticed quite a lot. Not trying to catch anyone out, but I have being doing this long enough to know what is bland, and what isn't. Immense depth of flavour too. Just trying to identify where it could go wrong. I will be making another batch soon and won't be changing a thing. Perhaps a pinch more salt :)
Rob
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I have being doing this long enough to know what is bland, and what isn't.
Ditto.
There's clearly something amiss here. You say it's got immense depth of flavour, I say it's bland. What gives?
On a purely objective level, had I been served this balti and not told what it was or was supposed to be, and I had to comment on its overall flavour, my response would still have been, "bland". I mean, livo thought the same and the one comment on Shababs website says the same. We can't all be getting it wrong. And in all honesty I have no axe to grind here. If it was good I'd have said so.
I would have liked to get George's feedback on making it as he's another one of the very few here who has tried the real thing. But nada!
As far as the akhni stock, I forgot to cover it so there wasn't an awful lot of liquid left at the end. But, to make up the water content once I'd poured the stock into the main pot I boiled up the spices again so they were drained dry of their essence and I added that water to the main pot too. I tasted some of the spices at the end and they were totally devoid of flavour.
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Was just looking at Shebabs website and right on their home page is a quote from a customer, "Wanted to order a meat madras but had to order a meat balti and pay extra to have it madras strength upon arrival and tasting there was no flavour and no madras heat tasted bland.
Was expecting alot more from the balti triangle establishment.???? "
Pretty brave of them to put a review like that on their front page! Is this the place? -https://www.shababs.co.uk/ (https://www.shababs.co.uk/)
...Malwarebytes blocks it on my machine due to a risky connection. Perhaps it knows the difference between a curry and a balti too :)
No this is it: http://www.shababsb12.co.uk/
That one you quoted seems sort of fake, it forwarded me to a dodgy £100 amazon voucher website! Probably why Malwarebytes if flagging it as dodgy.
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Is this a Birmingham Balti? If it isn't I don't know what is!!!
No way I'm going to get that heat on my cooker. I could on the 3 ring propane camp burner (maybe).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAd5dM0u7Ss&t=406s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAd5dM0u7Ss&t=406s)
Strangely there's an almost identical video but this time hosted by the Hairy Bikers. Watch it to see if I'm right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7CBbWW-4U0
And chicken and spinach balti at the same place by the same guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H77IzOvx04
And Steven heap's take on Birmingham balti: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTC9tn4ZwwA
I fell down the YouTube balti rabbit hole.
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I really think that all the flame and fluff is a bit of a show really though. How much of the heat from above (combusting oil splatter) is really doing anything to the food.
In general I agree with you however I've never seen that sort of flame sustained throughout the cooking process. I feel that must have an effect.
Just for show I feel. Not needed. I don't use the word perfection lightly and have achieved it with Mick's recipe on a domestic kitchen hob. It was nice to see base gravy in the video link though. It doesn't seem that long ago it was everything fresh, nothing pre-cooked, no base gravy, fresh, fresh, fresh. As mentioned earlier, it's basically cafe food, quick and easy prep. I have never seen a video of a Birmingham Balti house kitchen turning out, say, 50-100 covers. It's always a demonstration. Not a bad thing. Good marketing. How it's actually done wouldn't have the same ring to it.
Rob
The more I watch the Shababs videos the more I'm convinced the huge constant flame is not a gimmick but a necessity. They knock these baltis out in six minutes from raw ingredients (unlike standard BIR) and that's only possible using that huge heat throughout. Also, if you watch the videos he adds extra spices at the curry cooking stage and that makes a lot more sense to me.
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I do have such a burner (in the garage) but I have never deployed it — perhaps it's time I did so !
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I do have such a burner (in the garage) but I have never deployed it — perhaps it's time I did so !
Are you going to go full-on native and invest in an "authentic" balti dish?
https://thebirminghambaltibowlco.com/pages/about-us
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Of course, Santa — how on earth could I even hope to achieve a close emulation of the real thing if I stinted on a mere £28-99 for the key ingredient ?!
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I have being doing this long enough to know what is bland, and what isn't.
Ditto.
There's clearly something amiss here. You say it's got immense depth of flavour, I say it's bland. What gives?
On a purely objective level, had I been served this balti and not told what it was or was supposed to be, and I had to comment on its overall flavour, my response would still have been, "bland". I mean, livo thought the same and the one comment on Shababs website says the same. We can't all be getting it wrong. And in all honesty I have no axe to grind here. If it was good I'd have said so.
I would have liked to get George's feedback on making it as he's another one of the very few here who has tried the real thing. But nada!
As far as the akhni stock, I forgot to cover it so there wasn't an awful lot of liquid left at the end. But, to make up the water content once I'd poured the stock into the main pot I boiled up the spices again so they were drained dry of their essence and I added that water to the main pot too. I tasted some of the spices at the end and they were totally devoid of flavour.
You forgot to put the lid on. OK. Easily done. I think you need to start from scratch and make the gravy again. Check everything over and it should be fine. I have been trying to think of other base gravy recipes for comparison. Honestly, not come across anything remotely like it. Previously, I thought the Taz base held promise for the Birmingham Balti. It's a good base, but in this context (depth of flavour) it is several orders of magnitude out. Like chalk and cheese. No exaggeration. That's my experience of Mick's recipe. I must try a bowl of the base on it's own, warmed-up, with a few chips. Small bottle of ice cold Cobra. It'll still be Balti heaven!
Rob
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You forgot to put the lid on. OK. Easily done. I think you need to start from scratch and make the gravy again.
Now you're just being silly. The fact that I produced a more concentrated akhni stock is reason to start over? No! It's obviously quite the opposite.
You said you weren't trying to catch people out but it's obvious that that is exactly what you were trying to do and this ridiculous response confirms it. We're just going to have to accept that we assess curries differently and that to you a bland curry has "immense depth of flavour". Each to their own.
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Good base gravy. Good curry again, but with additional flavours. This time a single serve, similar to last but additional hot paprika and salt. Delicious and as i was cooking for myself, i upped the chilli a little. However, it didn't cut it with nothing. I didn't skimp on spices in the gravy. If anything, I bumped it up.
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However, it didn't cut it with nothing.
Hmm, translation from Australian required here, I think ... Anyone able to oblige ?
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** Phil.
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If its a bit bland then maybe theres a variation in the potency of the cassia? Perhaps increase the cassia by 25% to say 70g.
Just a thought
Regards
Mick
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However, it didn't cut it with nothing.
Hmm, translation from Australian required here, I think ... Anyone able to oblige ?
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** Phil.
I think he's saying it wasn't a good curry (or equivalently didn't pass muster) without the addition of extra spices. Does my understanding of Aussie cut it livo? :lol:
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If its a bit bland then maybe theres a variation in the potency of the cassia? Perhaps increase the cassia by 25% to say 70g.
Just a thought
For me the cassia comes through just fine. There may be variation in cassia potency but I doubt it would account for one person finding it full flavoured while others find it bland. I questioned the amount of cassia at 50g as I'd never seen as much used in any base. At 75g I can't imagine there would be much other flavour than cassia. And, in any case, it isn't just the lack of cassia, it's the overall lack of spiciness.
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If its a bit bland then maybe theres a variation in the potency of the cassia? Perhaps increase the cassia by 25% to say 70g.
Just a thought
For me the cassia comes through just fine. There may be variation in cassia potency but I doubt it would account for one person finding it full flavoured while others find it bland. I questioned the amount of cassia at 50g as I'd never seen as much used in any base. At 75g I can't imagine there would be much other flavour than cassia. And, in any case, it isn't just the lack of cassia, it's the overall lack of spiciness.
This is interesting Santa. I am getting no cassia whatsoever, zip, not even a hint. This is the balti I know. The flavours sparkle and yet segue. Strange, you can't put your finger on what is doing what. Well, I can't anyway. The recipe is a game-changer. I am certain. Not looking through rose petal tinted sunglasses either. Although I do look forward to seeing if the Adil's balti can be similarly, nailed down. To make this recipe I bought in new spices, all of them. Every use-by date checked. Had to go online for the bay leaves. I suggest this as a positive way forward, if deemed necessary. :)
Rob
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Translation correct. I was underwhelmed by the dish cooked without additional spices / flavours and even Mrs L agreed. In the cause of fairness, I'll do it again. This time I will go out and buy fresh, new whole spices, as one aspect I considered was that mine may be getting a bit old. I can use a top up anyway.
I'll also try the 3 ring burner and steel wok. There is no reason for the recipe to make a bad dish and it didn't. I've just had dishes the I felt were better, and indeed simply adding some spice to the final cook makes really good "balti".
As you say Santa, I've never had a Birmingham balti to compare with, so maybe this is it.
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As you say Santa, I've never had a Birmingham balti to compare with, so maybe this is it.
Yes it's embarrassing that as a native of Birmingham I've never had a real balti. And I'm convinced in my own mind that what we have here is a failure of expectation. I think the balti is underspiced so if we are used to normal spicy BIR fare then inevitably the balti isn't going to cut it for us.
I may be in Birmingham in a few weeks so maybe I'll pop into Shababs or one of the other balti places and see what all the fuss is about.
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I am getting no cassia whatsoever, zip, not even a hint.
Ok so I'm talking about the base sauce. Are you saying you can't detect cassia in the base sauce? It's hard to figure how you wouldn't notice that much cassia infusion in the base sauce. Certainly it is as you say a far more subdued effect in the curry.
As far as spices go none of mine are older than a month and the cassia was bought fresh for this base as I had run out.
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I am getting no cassia whatsoever, zip, not even a hint.
Ok so I'm talking about the base sauce. Are you saying you can't detect cassia in the base sauce? It's hard to figure how you wouldn't notice that much cassia infusion in the base sauce. Certainly it is as you say a far more subdued effect in the curry.
As far as spices go none of mine are older than a month and the cassia was bought fresh for this base as I had run out.
Tasted the base after blending and no obvious cassia coming through. Without knowing the ingredients wouldn't have a clue how it was put together. It would be pure guesswork based on what we know is likely to included. So, none of the spices stand out, except the chilli powder. It's the depth of flavour that struck me. The base gravy is lush on its own, in my opinion.
I don't recall saying anything is subdued in the final dish. I don't follow this. The flavours go through the roof on reduction. The depth of flavour reaches out far beyond this world into an uncharted dimension. Intoxicating. A truly wonderful place to be.
Are you sure you haven't left some of the ingredients out? :wink:
Rob
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:lol:
Are you sure you haven't left some of the ingredients out? :wink:
I give up! :lol:
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SS - The secret to the depth of flavour is the cassia - believe me. If its bland then you need to make some extra akhni stock to give the gravy a boost. No arguments. Simple as. Believe me ive fiddled about for weeks with this recipe after my first fluke batch. Luckily I kept some of the original batch and used it as a benchmark. Its not the powdered spices. You wont taste the cassia in the final curry - I promise. You wont want to eat another curry again when you get it right. Its awesome - even through my rose petal tinted glasses hahahahaah
Regards
Mick
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I think the lads may have slipped a little Afgan hashish into the mix. The euphoric, rapturous language sounds like it should be accompanied with a serious cases of "the munchies".
As I've commented earlier, I made a 1/2 quantity of gravy and in "halving" the spices I rounded the fractions up to the nearest whole. I didn't skimp on anything and my cassia bark was weighed and consisted of mainly small broken pieces. The instructions were followed and ingredients used as specified. Some of my spices may be at the end of "best before date" in terms of freshness, but they all still give flavour to other dishes. I doubt this is the issue, but I need to restock anyway.
My first attempt to use the gravy, as recommended for the Balti Chicken, was ok to eat but a very dull affair. A sentiment shared by my wife as well, who doesn't like "spicy" curry, but enjoys flavoursome ones. I've really enjoyed 3 subsequent curries made using the gravy with the addition of spice pastes (for flavour). I have a single portion of gravy left. It's base gravy, not curry.
In the interest of being thorough, I'll buy fresh whole spices and try again, but I'm not expecting it to change much.
Are you guys doing the whole flamed cook in a steel pan, or just reductions in an aluminium curry pan? Not that I think it'll make much difference. I'm still not convinced it's a real balti as you'd expect in a restaurant, but I've never had one, so I could be wrong.
Edit: Rob, I can't help but notice that your pre-cooked lamb is heavily coated in what appears to be heavy spice covering. This would obviously carry additional flavour into the dish. Am I correct?
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I think the lads may have slipped a little Afgan hashish into the mix. The euphoric, rapturous language sounds like it should be accompanied with a serious cases of "the munchies".
Hahahaha very good Livo I think its more to do with the rose petal tinted glasses to be honest although the afghan hash maybe the missing 5% in most peoples curries? :smiling eyes: :smiling eyes:
This balti is missing nothing :love eyes: :love eyes:
With regard to the whole flame cooking: it's been discussed many times. Its complete b@ll@cks for want of a better word. Its show-boating for the cameras - thats all.
I cook in a stainless pan on an induction hob on a medium heat.
As I said earlier, during my research stage for this gravy, I inadvertently made a batch (or two) that produced a bland final dish. I eventually realised that if I made some more "cassia tea" and added that to the gravy I was knocking the ball out of the park again.
Of the four people who have tried this, I am getting a 50:50 split on the end result.
Its a shame a few more members wont give it a go although Ive got a couple of mates who are testing it for me anyway
Oh well
Regards
Mick
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I think the lads may have slipped a little Afgan hashish into the mix. The euphoric, rapturous language sounds like it should be accompanied with a serious cases of "the munchies".
As I've commented earlier, I made a 1/2 quantity of gravy and in "halving" the spices I rounded the fractions up to the nearest whole. I didn't skimp on anything and my cassia bark was weighed and consisted of mainly small broken pieces. The instructions were followed and ingredients used as specified. Some of my spices may be at the end of "best before date" in terms of freshness, but they all still give flavour to other dishes. I doubt this is the issue, but I need to restock anyway.
My first attempt to use the gravy, as recommended for the Balti Chicken, was ok to eat but a very dull affair. A sentiment shared by my wife as well, who doesn't like "spicy" curry, but enjoys flavoursome ones. I've really enjoyed 3 subsequent curries made using the gravy with the addition of spice pastes (for flavour). I have a single portion of gravy left. It's base gravy, not curry.
In the interest of being thorough, I'll buy fresh whole spices and try again, but I'm not expecting it to change much.
Are you guys doing the whole flamed cook in a steel pan, or just reductions in an aluminium curry pan? Not that I think it'll make much difference. I'm still not convinced it's a real balti as you'd expect in a restaurant, but I've never had one, so I could be wrong.
Edit: Rob, I can't help but notice that your pre-cooked lamb is heavily coated in what appears to be heavy spice covering. This would obviously carry additional flavour into the dish. Am I correct?
Livo I am not sure halving/rounding-up a relatively small quantity of base gravy would be my first idea for trying a new recipe out, unless short on supplies. Recall reading stuff about proportions somewhere on this forum. I shall look it up again. So, I would like to do this recipe starting with 3 kg onions. Will I get exactly the same results as before if I just triple all the other ingredients? Any advice appreciated. I guess there's only one way to find out, but will be keeping to spec for the time being. I think I will reduce the chilli powder though. As I said I am getting near madras heat level. This would be too much for my good lady, who is partial to a Korma, or Pasanda with extra almonds.
Actually, I may be confusing things (proportions) with making multiple portions of the final dish at the same time. Come to think of it, I can't see this being problematic with Mick's recipe, which would fit in with balti houses churning out at speed. If say, 5 people all order Balti Chicken. Are they really going to light up 5 burners on full tilt? Excuse my rambling.
I am using a stainless steel pan for making the curry. Glass single-vented lid on for most of the time. Gas hob. Lowest output burner; on low to medium.
Yes, I gave the pre-cooked lamb some hammer didn't I? Quite a dry finish. The same spices as for the base gravy except for black cardamon. It did add flavour; more of the same. A work in progress for smokey lamb. But I am not trying to improve Mick's recipe. It can't be "improved". Overall, the best dishes for me so far have been the Balti Chicken/Balti Chicken Mushroom. I also made Balti King Prawn/Mushroom early on; again holy grail quality. The lamb dishes have also been spectacular though. The gravy seems versatile in that everything I chuck in it so far yields top results.
I hope others try this recipe. A remaining challenge is to reproduce the other legendary balti house offerings. They all have something unique to set them apart from one another. But they all share the same monumental depth of flavour.
Rob
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:lol:Are you sure you haven't left some of the ingredients out? :wink:
I give up! :lol:
Don't give up Santa! You will get there.
Rob :smile:
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I have proven (to myself anyway) that despite assertions to the contrary, it is completely acceptable to do linear scaling when it comes to making base gravy. Double = double and half = half and so on. The same does not apply when doing bulk cooks of "spiced" dishes with some spices being able to vary linearly (cumin, coriander etc) while other more noticeable spices (chilli, garam masala, pepper) need to be varied at different ratios. It is common to see only 1.5 X or even 1.2 X quantity for double serve. I've done bulk cooks of 40 servings and you don't add 40 tsp of Chilli.
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There are a few areas for error in the recipe. What exactly is a heaped teaspoon? You might as well say a gross of fairy wings. And a "ladle" ... big ladle, small ladle?
Do you think you could rehash (all) the quantities to measurements that are reproducible by everyone. So actual teaspoons, i.e. 5mL, and the total portion of base sauce per curry also in mL? Or maybe because the final volume of base might vary just say how many curries are you making from this one batch of base sauce?
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Of the four people who have tried this, I am getting a 50:50 split on the end result.
Exactly. And why? Because two have actually tasted a real balti and two haven't. It can't be a coincidence that the two who have think this is the dogs and the two that haven't think it's bland ... not bad, just bland. As I said before there's a difference in what we're expecting, it's not because me and livo have messed up the cooking (dodgy measurements aside).
You said yourself that balti is a totally different beast and I would agree.
I'm keen to hear feedback from others who try it, good or bad.
By the way I'm really enjoying this thread. Best curry related chat we've had here for quite a while. We haven't even digressed from the main subject that much which is unusual.
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What exactly is a heaped teaspoon? You might as well say a gross of fairy wings.
I would respectfully disagree, Santa. We are cooking a curry (well, a balti), not making a Covid-19 vaccine. For me, a flat teaspoon, a rounded teaspoon and a heaped teaspoon are inherently meaningful quantities, and were I to seek to reproduce a recipe expressed in those terms, I would be confident that I would get within 15% of the intended amount (probably better). And I don't think that an error of 15% is going to have a massive effect on the outcome. However, as to "a ladle" ... big ladle, small ladle ?", there I would have to agree — I have at least three different sizes of ladle, and the largest holds at least twice as much as the smallest, possibly three times. Here a little more guidance would be in order, I agree.
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** Phil.
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I doubt that the slight variations from one household's spoons and ladles to another's is going to cause significant detrement here. I'd imagine there are enough curries under our belts to know what we're doing and I can't see this being the issue. I'll check freshness of spice before I worry about breaking out the 4 decimal place digital scales.
I'm enjoying this thread too Santa and I've now a good reason to cook another batch of gravy and more curry. Bob's lamb has me feeling envious. I'm off to the shops today.
What method are you using for your pre-cook Bob? It looks like bone in as well. Correct?
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Another thought, and please keep in mind that this is in no way intended as a criticism of Mick's efforts, but food for discussion. I really like the Base Gravy we have here and I've used it to make a few fine dishes. I will persevere with it, as I'm about to do later today. However, if this thread is the real 100% Birmingham Balti clone, where does that put the previous "real Balti/s"?
I've just had a look through my copies of The Balti Secrets of the Birmingham Balti Company (Janet & Peter Lardner, 1997), 100 Best Balti Curries: Authentic Dishes from the Baltihouses (sp) (Mike Davidson, Diane Lowe, 1994) and Real Balti Cookbook. Over 100 Quick and Authentic Recipes (Mridula Baljekar, 1996).
The first point of discussion for me would be Cassia Bark. In the essence of this thread is the emphasis of Cassia being paramount to the success and flavour of the recipe. Cassia Bark (or cinnamon) barely get a mention in these mid-1990's publications in relation to the balti gravy / balti sauce. If anything there are small amount in the Balti Masala powder that finds it's way into the gravy of Lardner & Lardner. The interesting thing in the above-mentioned 3 publications is the striking similarity of ingredients for the base gravy in each. The first 6 key ingredients are obviously also in Mick's gravy. However, I'm looking for differences, while noting these similarities.
These are respectively:
Onion, ginger, garlic, salt, tomatoes, oil, methi, cardamom, Balti Masala. *Note: 2 TBSP of Balti Masala, of which Cassia is a minor ingredient.
Onion, ginger, garlic, salt, tomatoes, oil, coriander, individual spice powders (not including cassia). *Note; not even in their Rolls Royce Version sauce.
Onion, ginger, garlic, salt, tomatoes, oil, methi, individual spice powders (not including cassia).
Another difference is that none of these contain capsicum or carrot. By observation you would expect that the gravy produced from Mick's recipe is a far more developed and richer sauce, but is it enough to produce a curry in it's own right? The above 3 publications all use their respective gravy / sauce as a base for further dish development.
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Another thought, and please keep in mind that this is in no way intended as a criticism of Mick's efforts, but food for discussion. I really like the Base Gravy we have here and I've used it to make a few fine dishes. I will persevere with it, as I'm about to do later today. However, if this thread is the real 100% Birmingham Balti clone, where does that put the previous "real Balti/s"?
I've just had a look through my copies of The Balti Secrets of the Birmingham Balti Company (Janet & Peter Lardner, 1997), 100 Best Balti Curries: Authentic Dishes from the Baltihouses (sp) (Mike Davidson, Diane Lowe, 1994) and Real Balti Cookbook. Over 100 Quick and Authentic Recipes (Mridula Baljekar, 1996).
The first point of discussion for me would be Cassia Bark. In the essence of this thread is the emphasis of Cassia being paramount to the success and flavour of the recipe. Cassia Bark (or cinnamon) barely get a mention in these mid-1990's publications in relation to the balti gravy / balti sauce. If anything there are small amount in the Balti Masala powder that finds it's way into the gravy of Lardner & Lardner. The interesting thing in the above-mentioned 3 publications is the striking similarity of ingredients for the base gravy in each. The first 6 key ingredients are obviously also in Mick's gravy. However, I'm looking for differences, while noting these similarities.
These are respectively:
Onion, ginger, garlic, salt, tomatoes, oil, methi, cardamom, Balti Masala. *Note: 2 TBSP of Balti Masala, of which Cassia is a minor ingredient.
Onion, ginger, garlic, salt, tomatoes, oil, coriander, individual spice powders (not including cassia). *Note; not even in their Rolls Royce Version sauce.
Onion, ginger, garlic, salt, tomatoes, oil, methi, individual spice powders (not including cassia).
Another difference is that none of these contain capsicum or carrot. By observation you would expect that the gravy produced from Mick's recipe is a far more developed and richer sauce, but is it enough to produce a curry in it's own right? The above 3 publications all use their respective gravy / sauce as a base for further dish development.
Mick's starting point for his recipe is Authentic Balti Curry: Restaurant Recipes Revealed. By Mohammed Ali Haydor and Andy Holmes. The restaurant in the title is the Kushi on Mosely Road, Birmingham. This is what peaked my interest. I have been looking through the book recently. What Mick has done is just extraordinary. I can see it now. Quite brilliant. There are curved balls a plenty in Ali's recipes. They caught me out. But consider this. He has recreated the Al Frash balti, Ladypool Road. This has huge significance. Even the recent Shababs Youtubes. Ladypool Road. Look at the gravy. Listen to what the chef reckons goes into it. A pattern is forming. It's mind-blowing!
I have a pile of other balti books. Reckon most will be going to a charity shop. In the words of Jim Royle.
"Rolls Royce my ar$e". Mick's recipe is the real deal. Look no further.
Rob
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Under normal circumstances, i.e. when making standard BIR fare, I would agree with livo and Phil about spice content. But this isn't that normal is it? The difference is that the base (reduced down) is the curry sauce. There's no added spice in the curry making stage. So I do think the spice quantity is important here. There could potentially be a difference of at least two and maybe three times the spice quantity depending on how you interpret the "teaspoon" measure. Hence why I would prefer accurate measures in the interest of accurately reproducing Mick's efforts.
And hopefully livo, as Phil has, you'd agree that the base sauce quantity used per curry is fundamentally important given that it is the curry.
Speaking from no experience I think the baltis of each balti house are not the same. The inordinate amount of cassia in this recipe apparently makes a clone of the Al Frash baltis. Maybe it wouldn't be needed for clones of other balti establishments?
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Dont worry about upsetting me Livo - Im pretty thick skinned. You have to be on this forum at times. If you try any of these recipes then I doubt they will even come close to the real deal. It was only by chance that I cracked it imo.
One thing I dont think I have mentioned before was that about 7 years ago when I used to pre pack potatoes, I met a guy from Burton on Trent who used to be a chef in one of the lesser known balti restaurants (but was regularly listed in the Andy Munroe balti guide top 10). This guy did admit that he wasnt the head chef either but had worked there for many years. Due to family circumstances he had to leave the restaurant and help out with the running of the family grocery business. He did carry on cooking from home and used to do outside catering events on the side. Anyhow, I served him with spuds for about 6 months and all through that time he used to drop in various curries, samosas etc when he came to our place to pick up his spuds. He promised me he would show me exactly how to make a balti, but for various reasons after a while I stopped serving him. On one of his visits though, he gave me a good sized portion of his balti gravy. It was literally the consistency of mashed potato - Ive got some photos somewhere... Anyhow, he never really believed that I knew how to cook a curry (some say I still dont lol) but he said to me that the gravy does not require any additional spices to make a balti. That made me realise that Baltis can only be made from balti gravy and not a generic gravy. He also told me he used only whole spices as well, I could not find a trace of a whole spice in it anywhere. basically, I took his gravy, diluted it down big time (maybe 10:1) and knocked up a few baltis- absolutely out of this world etc. I showed him a few photos of me cooking the baltis and he was shocked how much I appeared to know. Anyway long story short, he disappeared a few weeks later owing me £300 end of story. He'd strung me along to get some credit and then done a Ussain (Bolt).
So thats what I learned from the horses mouth as it were.
Some time ago I was trying to crack the Balti gravy making all these weird and wonderful Balti GMs and subsequent baltis and failing miserably so I decided to take a generic gravy - JB's I think and make a curry without any additional spices basically as a starting point. I was then going to make new curries using Balti GMs to try and figure out this balti conundrum. Anyway, the unspiced straight gravy tasted closer to a balti than any of the others.
Enough of my ramblings
As they say: The proof of the pudding...
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I do think the spice quantity is important here. There could potentially be a difference of at least two and maybe three times the spice quantity depending on how you interpret the "teaspoon" measure.
I cannot see how you reach that conclusion, Santa. Would you not agree that your "heaped teaspoon" and my "heaped teaspoon" and MDB's "heaped teaspoon" are all probably within 15% of each other ? If so, then surely "there could potentially be a difference of [15% or so of] the spice quantity" rather than "at least two and maybe three times". It is not as if (e.g.,) 15% more chilli, 15% more coriander, 15% more cumin, 15% more turmeric, 15% more curry powder, 15% more kasoori methi and 15% more garam masala would lead to 105% more spice overall — it would not, it would lead to 15% more spice overall.
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** Phil.
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I doubt that the slight variations from one household's spoons and ladles to another's is going to cause significant detrement here. I'd imagine there are enough curries under our belts to know what we're doing and I can't see this being the issue. I'll check freshness of spice before I worry about breaking out the 4 decimal place digital scales.
I'm enjoying this thread too Santa and I've now a good reason to cook another batch of gravy and more curry. Bob's lamb has me feeling envious. I'm off to the shops today.
What method are you using for your pre-cook Bob? It looks like bone in as well. Correct?
Yes, on the bone. Asked the butcher to cut it into "curry pieces".
Pretty standard (handi) method, but with Mick's spice mix and Akhni stock. Swapped out some of the green cardos for black. Tinned tomatoes (I used fresh for the base gravy). Don't go mad with the chilli power.
This was the actual Akhni stock that went in:
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/da656c6fb9f6c9470f51c89b2fcf7f06.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#da656c6fb9f6c9470f51c89b2fcf7f06.jpg)
Rob
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Would you not agree that your "heaped teaspoon" and my "heaped teaspoon" and MDB's "heaped teaspoon" are all probably within 15% of each other ?
Categorically no.
From this website: https://pediaa.com/what-is-the-difference-between-tablespoon-and-teaspoon/
"The size of a teaspoon can actually range from 2.5 to 7.3 ml."
There is no standard teaspoon when talking about what you casually pick out of the drawer. And the vagueness of heaped is a further contributory error factor, not to mention rounded!
I do see the potential for at least a 100% error in spice quantity. If people would just stick to verifiable measurements, such as the universally accepted 1tsp = 5mL or, preferably, avoid teaspoons altogether, life would be a lot easier and we wouldn't need to clag up this thread with this discussion.
Anyway, right or wrong, I won't be trying it again without accurate quantities.
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Would you not agree that your "heaped teaspoon" and my "heaped teaspoon" and MDB's "heaped teaspoon" are all probably within 15% of each other ?
Categorically no.
From this website: https://pediaa.com/what-is-the-difference-between-tablespoon-and-teaspoon/
"The size of a teaspoon can actually range from 2.5 to 7.3 ml."
That page is complete and utter b@ll@cks. Both quotes below are from that very page —
- "teaspoon has a capacity of 5ml"
- "A teaspoon is a small spoon that holds about 2ml"
The author is just writing down whatever comes into his/her head at that instant, without any thought or preparation and with no retrospective check for consistency. In reality, a teaspoon holds about 5ml; even my coffee spoons hold more than 2ml.
** Phil.
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Would you not agree that your "heaped teaspoon" and my "heaped teaspoon" and MDB's "heaped teaspoon" are all probably within 15% of each other ?
Categorically no.
From this website: https://pediaa.com/what-is-the-difference-between-tablespoon-and-teaspoon/
"The size of a teaspoon can actually range from 2.5 to 7.3 ml."
There is no standard teaspoon when talking about what you casually pick out of the drawer. And the vagueness of heaped is a further contributory error factor, not to mention rounded!
I do see the potential for at least a 100% error in spice quantity. If people would just stick to verifiable measurements, such as the universally accepted 1tsp = 5mL or, preferably, avoid teaspoons altogether, life would be a lot easier and we wouldn't need to clag up this thread with this discussion.
Anyway, right or wrong, I won't be trying it again without accurate quantities.
I am happy with 1 tsp = 5 ml for this recipe, rounded. I used a set of measuring spoons. Not really my style, don't even remember buying them. Sort of glad I did. I think we are almost there. Now then, my green 1 tsp spoon says 1 Teaspoon/4 ml on it. Bare with me. My orange 1/2 tsp spoon says 1/2 Teaspoon/2.5 ml. But I can get 2 x orange into green. Perfectly. The meniscus is the rounding. So, 1 tsp is 5 ml. Now written in stone.
Rob
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1 tsp is 5 ml. Now written in stone.
Hallelujah, brothers and sisters — we has seen the light !
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Speaking from no experience I think the baltis of each balti house are not the same. The inordinate amount of cassia in this recipe apparently makes a clone of the Al Frash baltis. Maybe it wouldn't be needed for clones of other balti establishments?
I'm not so sure. I felt some were not so different, not fundamentally anyway. The only one that really stood out for me was Adil's. Some serious tweaking here, or yes, it could be completely different to the others. They used tandoori masala powder in all their balti dishes. This is a fact. Most likely added when making the curry itself. I had a botched sit-down offering there once and could taste bitter uncooked TM. Jerry got a sample of a whole spice GM they purportedly used. A lot of cumin seeds and ajwain in it as I recall. They also used rotisserie chicken strip, which added stock, I felt. The real confuser was the distinctly floral notes though. I have no idea. Rose maybe. Powdered unicorn horn and hen's teeth.
Rob :smile:
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Anyway long story short, he disappeared a few weeks later owing me £300 end of story. He'd strung me along to get some credit and then done a Ussain (Bolt).
Be funny if he'd ended up on here, flogging pdf recipe books!
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So, 1 tsp is 5 ml. Now written in stone.
Ok so all we need now is ladle size - on the assumption we all end up with the same volume of base sauce, which isn't at all likely. Number of curries per batch of sauce would be better.
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So, 1 tsp is 5 ml. Now written in stone.
I always thought 5ml was the norm.
As I have said, in my balti gravy I dont believe that the powdered spices are that important in regards weight, but their relative proportions will be. In other words as long as you use the same teaspoon for measuring out all the powdered spices then that should be close enough.
Regards
Mick
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So, 1 tsp is 5 ml. Now written in stone.
Ok so all we need now is ladle size - on the assumption we all end up with the same volume of base sauce, which isn't at all likely. Number of curries per batch of sauce would be better.
I used a small ladle. 50 ml. Will have added about 125 ml for each balti. Small portions. The shiny balti dish I used to serve is 7" x 2". If in foil TA trays would use the No 2 size. Like to keep an eye on my waistline these days. 32" and aim to keep it that way.
Number of curries, let me think. At least 12 from the batch, 12-14. I can look into the volume of base sauce. I will be able to work out a rough estimate from the pan I used.
www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=47536.0
Will also be making a new batch next week. Proper looking forward to it. I used East End GM and Madras curry powder (Mild). Proper Tej Pata. Fresh G/G paste. Jars or frozen blocks are not suitable for BIR cooking, in my opinion.
I suppose it is a busy hour (and a bit) to make the gravy first time around. I will make the G/G paste beforehand this time. Should be absolutely fine with a pinch of salt added. The 3 pan cooking? This may/may not be useful to someone. So I have 4 gas burners. With all on the lowest setting there is no overlap in output. Each is hotter than the next (by some way). So I am limited. The veg are happiest on the smallest burner, so this one is taken. The large (triple burner) is out for this application, and most others; it's too fierce. Two left. I felt the Akhni stock pan would be best on one, but this meant the G/G paste would have to go on the right burner (the second highest output). Too risky on this small scale (I am using a small milk pan for this). I worked around it by making the G/G paste/spice mix after the Akhni stock was completed. In the same pan (cleaned first) and the same burner. The G/G paste got my full attention; continuously stirred. Hope this makes sense. Seems to have worked nicely.
Rob
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Well I have bought the fresh spices, garlic, ginger, coriander and tomatoes. I already have onions. I'll give it another go and see if I can't emulate the Balti bliss.
Brand new fresh cassia bark, green cardamom and kasoori methi and star anise (not pictured). My tej pat is still relatively new. Everything else required is good and I will lightly roast and grind my own fresh cumin and coriander seeds to ensure optimum flavour.
I have also bought several chicken breasts and it is my intention to do a side by side with raw chicken (as described) and a pre-cooked (probably Misty Ricardo or Syed). I also bought 2 butterflied legs of lamb so I'll be pre-cooking some of that to try a lamb dish. I will be doing small dishes to avoid wastage of expensive food.
Stay tuned I guess. It will be tomorrow as I'm eating Sri Lankan Fish Curry (Meen Kulambu) tonight.
Edit: Before I go ahead and make a new batch of gravy, I'm going to use up the last portion of the first attempt, and I'm going to follow the instructions for the preparation of the dish. I've just noticed again this:
To make balti:
No need for additional ground spices or extra salt!
and it started me thinking.
Reading back over the whole recipe and instruction again I notice that there is just 1 tsp of salt in the whole preparation. Assuming that the onion, carrots and capsicum will cook down to half raw volume and allowing for some evaporation loss, this whole base gravy should end up being around 2.5 to 3 litres litres in finished volume (there is a note to add additional water to achieve desired consistency). I made a half batch first up which gave me about 1.4 litres so that's about right. I've already made 4 dishes and there is enough for another.
I only used 1/2 tsp of salt, ie; 2.5g so each dish contains only 0.5 g of salt or 1/10 tsp. Hmmmm??? Would that go part way to answering the question Santa?
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I only used 1/2 tsp of salt, ie; 2.5g so each dish contains only 0.5 g of salt or 1/10 tsp. Hmmmm??? Would that go part way to answering the question Santa?
I wasn't really questioning the salt content but I did add a little more to the curry on second try just to try to get some flavour from it. And I'm mildly salt averse which shows you just how bland I was finding it.
I made a half batch first up which gave me about 1.4 litres so that's about right. I've already made 4 dishes and there is enough for another.
So you're getting between 8 and ten curries per batch. I shared it out to eight portions and I think Bengali Bob is claiming 12 to 14 portions per batch. So, in fact, my curries should be even more intense than most other people's efforts but that doesn't appear to be the case.
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1 tsp is 5 ml. Now written in stone.
Hallelujah, brothers and sisters — we has seen the light !
Sarcasm aside, admittedly I'm a bit anal about using accurate quantities but only in the interest of actually reproducing the base sauce or curry as the author intended.
But really Phil I can't help thinking that your input would be better informed if you would actually dive in and make the darn balti base and curry. At least we'd have another taste-test opinion to reflect upon.
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I agree, Santa, but sadly no time to cook at the moment — too many projects with pressing timescales, so I am living on take-aways, omelettes and egg-and-anchovy sandwiches for the time being ...
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OK, I have some positive comments to make. I have just cooked and eaten a single portion of Balti chicken cooked to spec (after dinner but I managed), and I have to say that it was a big improvement on my first attempt, using the exact same ingredients. There is one important instruction missing (3 times). Don't just reduce the gravy at each stage. Really cook it. Complete oil separation and caramelisation happening around the pan. The caramelisation around the pan will get darker and darker with each addition of gravy and you should end up with what can be considered a fairly dry(ish) curry in a puddle of oil. (Photos to follow.) The gravy ends up being quite thick and you'll be thinking you're about to burn it. This could be the difference between that high heat in the commercial kitchens and my burner on the stovetop.
I also added a really good handful of coriander so that flavour definitely carried over. Unfortunately, this is something that not everybody likes (me included as I'm still experiencing coriander after-taste). One of the definitions of Balti is that the dish includes vegetables cooked with the meat. I'd suggest capsicum or even mild chillis if your not keen on coriander. Par-cooked green beans or broccoli / cauliflower even.
The negatives: In my opinion it is still a fairly dull affair compared to really tasty curries, however you can always pep it up to your liking with pastes or powders, as I've already done. The other thing is that the first 2 pieces of chicken I ate were "oh well". So I sprinkled it with some Himalayan pink rock salt and gave it a stir through. There was an immediate and significant improvement. Salt is a flavour enhancer and it is required. Luckily it can be added after or at the end of cooking.
Overall, it is a method and gravy worthy of further exploration. I really like the gravy and I also like the look of Rob's lamb and prawn versions. I'll be going there and I think pre-cooked (flavoured) chicken is a no-brainer.
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I sprinkled it with some Himalayan pink rock salt and gave it a stir through. There was an immediate and significant improvement. Salt is a flavour enhancer and it is required. Luckily it can be added after or at the end of cooking.
May I suggest (if you have not already done so, Livo) that you substitute Himalayan black rock salt (kala namak) for the Himalayan pink rock salt — kala namak is my salt of choice for all curries, as well as being a vital ingredient in egg-and-anchovy sandwiches.
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** Phil.
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I have black salt and it may well be something for the future Phil. In this instance I purposely didn't want to stray from the original recipe as it was a test of flavour to spec.
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There is one important instruction missing (3 times). Don't just reduce the gravy at each stage. Really cook it. Complete oil separation and caramelisation happening around the pan. The caramelisation around the pan will get darker and darker with each addition of gravy and you should end up with what can be considered a fairly dry(ish) curry in a puddle of oil. (Photos to follow.) The gravy ends up being quite thick and you'll be thinking you're about to burn it. This could be the difference between that high heat in the commercial kitchens and my burner on the stovetop.
Do you think, Livo, that if one were to adopt the same approach with other (non-balti) recipes, one might see a similar improvement in quality/taste ?
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** Phil.
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In my opinion it is still a fairly dull affair compared to really tasty curries, however you can always pep it up to your liking with pastes or powders, as I've already done.
I think we have two different things in front of us Livo. Polar opposites. I wonder if it's the timber. Are you sure you are using cassia? The picture you posted earlier of your spices doesn't make it clear to me. It looks a bit iffy. What is it exactly?
Rob
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Do you think, Livo, that if one were to adopt the same approach with other (non-balti) recipes, one might see a similar improvement in quality/taste ?
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** Phil.
Quite possibly Phil. I hadn't considered it but it certainly makes sense.
I don't usually like to get that oil separation in a finished dish but I wanted to see if this just needed extra heat to bring the flavour out, which it did, to a certain degree.
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I think we have two different things in front of us Livo. Polar opposites. I wonder if it's the timber. Are you sure you are using cassia? The picture you posted earlier of your spices doesn't make it clear to me. It looks a bit iffy. What is it exactly?
Rob
Most definitely 100% positive Cassia Bark. My old stock, used in my first batch of gravy, came from Udaya Indian Grocery, Wentworthville, Sydney, and the bag was labelled Cassia bark. Wentworthville is the centre of the most densely Indian populated area in Australia.
The small bag I photographed is labelled cinnamon but it is Cassia Bark for sure. The guy at Namaste Indian Grocer (local) tried to sell me round cinnamon quills but I told him I wanted flat Cassia bark. He fossicked around the shelves and produced that bag. It does also have the botanical name of the tree on it which I'll report later.
Both bags, as with most Indian spices, were imported from India.
I have just made another half batch last night. Don't get me wrong. I like it, but it just needs more than cooking on its own, with just raw chicken anyway. I can see how spiced pre-cooked lamb or prawns would work better than chicken. Spiced pre-cooked chicken will be the next thing to try.
Edit: Correction.
The new bag I bought just the other day, after being very specific in what I wanted with the little Indian boy who served me, is in fact Cinnamomum Zeylanicum, or Ceylon Cinnamon. It is not in the usual quill form but more resembles small Cassia bark pieces. I've never seen Ceylon cinnamon in this form before and I already have plenty of Cinnamon quills. I didn't use it last night. I just again used the broken up small pieces left in my container of proper Cassia Bark (which was the real deal). I will now be on the hunt for some more proper Cassia Bark.
There is no doubt that the bark I have used so far is Cassia. Had I used Ceylon Cinnamon in that quantity, I would certainly have been able to tell. Whether it's freshness is an issue remains undecided.
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I think we have two different things in front of us Livo. Polar opposites.
Stop flogging a dead horse BB. We are making the same thing (give or take a few ladles of base sauce) the problem is, as I've stated several times now, a difference of expectation. You are happy with bland whereas livo and I are used to standard tasty BIR and so bland balti just doesn't cut it.
I do wish others would try this so that we could form a better consensus though.
Have your mates tried it yet Mick?
And George, come on mate, get your pinny on and get in the kitchen. I'm pretty sure that as a korma lover this rather mild balti would be just up your street.
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All I am getting is Balti perfection. To spec, with 2 tsp regular chilli power in the base spice mix, it's nice and spiky too, close to madras strength. Perfect, seriously.
Rob
I was reading back to see if there was anything I might have missed and I read the above.
So to you 2 tsp of chilli in the base sauce makes a madras level curry? Say what?! :omg:
A proper madras has at least one teaspoon of chilli powder at the curry making stage. Two teaspoons distributed in a batch of base and none added at the curry stage wouldn't even register on my tastebuds, as proved to be the case in practice.
I do wonder if you're not one of these fabled supertasters BB. It might explain the extreme difference in opinion of this base and curry.
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All I am getting is Balti perfection. To spec, with 2 tsp regular chilli power in the base spice mix, it's nice and spiky too, close to madras strength. Perfect, seriously.
Rob
I was reading back to see if there was anything I might have missed and I read the above.
So to you 2 tsp of chilli in the base sauce makes a madras level curry? Say what?! :omg:
A proper madras has at least one teaspoon of chilli powder at the curry making stage. Two teaspoons distributed in a batch of base and none added at the curry stage wouldn't even register on my tastebuds, as proved to be the case in practice.
I do wonder if you're not one of these fabled supertasters BB. It might explain the extreme difference in opinion of this base and curry.
I was wondering when someone would comment on this. Agree, it doesn't make any sense. But this is what I got. Was thinking of reducing it, by half. I am just making a second batch of the gravy now. Changed nothing. 2 tsp chilli powder option. Will report back. Considering making a Balti Chicken Jalfrezi next. To use up the left-over peppers.
Rob
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For reference. Al Frash takeaway. Balti Chicken.
Al Frash then
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/ef967c92359eb3ec2be06cdaa05ed271.jpg)
Balti chicken (requested extra dry)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/da6c880c0e6aedd218600a839402eb11.jpg)
Rob :)
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I don't know how much you can believe what he says but the Sababs' chef reckons he puts the whole garam masala in the main onion pot and blends it all in at the end. So no akhni stock used.
https://youtu.be/drX0bqXdc3c?t=51
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At the beginning of the pandemic there was a BIR chef who released a video of his base gravy (among the several who did) and he did the same. I tried it and quite liked it. I think it was the guy who claimed to be the chef who took balti to the south coast. Was it Abdul something? There was a real rush on videos at the time. I'll see if I can find it. I think it was the guy in the turmeric coloured jumper. There were several chefs releasing content at the time so I may be confusing them.
Edit: It is not Abdul Salam. He answers a question in comments that he removes whole spices.
By all accounts it would appear that Mr Andy Munroe is somewhat the word on balti. It is interesting to note the comment made by Andy M regarding a balti video by our past member Chewytikka, His comment appears to confirm chewy's claim that Pataks Balti Paste is the flavour of BIR balti for over 3 decades and that any claim that its not is misinformation. In that video, chewy covers all bases regarding possible definition of a balti. He cooks in a balti bowl. He cooks a vegetable with the meat, and he uses the " balti" flavour spices (in this case with pataks).
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His comment appears to confirm chewy's claim that Pataks Balti Paste is the flavour of BIR balti for over 3 decades and that any claim that its not is misinformation.
Maybe up north where chewy is from and almost certainly in BIRs that also serve "balti" but I'm not so sure regarding true balti houses in Brum. Frankly I'd take anything chewy says with a large pinch of salt - his experience is very northern biased and not the better for it.
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Fair enough Santa, and being over here I can't really comment on geographical north V south V midlands over there. My point is that Andy M (presumably Andy Munroe, although I could be wrong) had more or less endorsed CT's presentation and view of Balti, and also he is presumably (if you believe everything you read) a recognised authority on Balti, particularly Brum Balti. I'm reasonably confident, that considering your view on the real Brum Balti (topic of this thread), you'd rather eat Chewy's one. I know I probably would and the dishes I cooked last night and finished off tonight confirm this, to me anyhow.
While I have now cooked, eaten and enjoyed the 100% Clone Al Frash Balti Chicken, I prefer to eat "Balti" dishes with the addition of balti flavourings. I don't really care about whether it's cooked in a stamped steel pan with a brand on it, whether it's cooked over a ridiculous gas flame, of if you eat it with your fingers and a naan or choose to use a fork. I'll wager if I cooked CT's Balti, I'd enjoy it.
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I don't know how much you can believe what he says but the Sababs' chef reckons he puts the whole garam masala in the main onion pot and blends it all in at the end. So no akhni stock used.
https://youtu.be/drX0bqXdc3c?t=51
I think, yes, sounds plausible. If they get all the flavours out of the whole spices blitzing them would just add a little bulk. But surely a similar outcome, in effect, can be achieved via an Akhni stock? As in MDB's recipe, to great effect I might add. Wondrous phenomenal effect!
Rob
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I am picturing Andy Munro snorting and with steam shooting out of his ears.
Rob. :)
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You'll have to fill me in Rob. Is it because I spelled his name incorrectly?
So if the balti (according to A Munro at Shababs with Zaf Hussain) was developed in the 1970s and hit the heights in the 80s and early 90s, how does Chef Hussain (one of the brothers, Rishton) cook a balti using a recipe handed down through the family from the 1930s?
Smoke and mirrors.
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You'll have to fill me in Rob. Is it because I spelled his name incorrectly?
I was just thinking that if he had read your posts today he would be fuming. :)
He is very much a Birmingham Balti traditionalist. So any notion of Patak's pastes going into the Birmingham Balti would be blasphemy, of the highest order. It's all done fresh, from scratch, you see.
This link seems to be mainly about a balti bowl company, but gives a flavour of his passion.
www.balti-birmingham.co.uk/balti-blasphemy-again/
Rob
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Read his comments in Chewys video Rob. He cooks it with the Pataks paste and enjoys it.
https://youtu.be/O6qPk8mSKc0 (https://youtu.be/O6qPk8mSKc0)
I've read all this stuff before. Several times in fact.
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Read his comments in Chewys video Rob. He cooks it with the Pataks paste and enjoys it.
https://youtu.be/O6qPk8mSKc0 (https://youtu.be/O6qPk8mSKc0)
I've read all this stuff before. Several times in fact.
I really don't think Andy M is Andy Munro!
And this video just emphasises my point about BIRs serving a standard curry with a dollop of balti paste in a karahi and professing it to be a balti. Nope.
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Maybe, maybe not. The Balti Birmingham (traditionalist) site links to latest video from The Curry Kid 7 days ago, who incidently cooks a Garlic Chilli Chicken Tikka Balti in a pressed steel balti bowl over a gas burner using a plastic mixing bowl scraper as his stirring implement. ROFLMAO.
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Read his comments in Chewys video Rob. He cooks it with the Pataks paste and enjoys it.
https://youtu.be/O6qPk8mSKc0 (https://youtu.be/O6qPk8mSKc0)
I've read all this stuff before. Several times in fact.
I can't open your link. It doesn't matter. It will not be Andy Munro commenting on Chewy's balti, not a chance.
The vast majority of Chewy's stuff is Bangladeshi style BIR. He has produced some of the best recipes on this forum, in my opinion. I expect his Balti recipe produces good results. The addition of pastes will add depth of flavour.
But here we are talking about the Birmingham Balti. Most of the Birmingham Balti houses are/were run by Pakistani staff. I can think of only two Bangladeshi restaurants that were able to make a real Birmingham Balti. One was the Kushi. I can't remember the other one. The chef on the south coast you referred to in an earlier post sounds like Chef Din. His cooking is Bangladeshi, hence the balti pastes. Generally speaking, Bangladeshi run restaurants have no idea how to make the iconic Birmingham Balti. They have just jumped on the band wagon, knocked something together and called it a balti. Some are really good, but they are all miles off the real deal.
So, we are going somewhat off-topic. No pastes are needed to make Mick's base gravy. They would ruin it. It would need to be binned. As I keep saying, Mick's recipe already has immense depth of flavour. It is a pity there are not more forum members trying it. But in time I am sure they will. The secret of the Birmingham Balti is here. No doubt about it, in my humble opinion of course.
Rob
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On the day that the Andy Munro video was recorded at Shababs, Richard Sayce (misty ricardo) was shown the cooking of a Chicken Balti and he has presented it on his website. It is nothing like Mick's 100% clone. It has spices added and the only qualification is that if you use normal BIR base gravy instead of a balti base gravy, he suggests adding an extra 1/4 tsp of garam masala.
I believe it was only last month.
https://mistyricardo.com/balti-chicken-shababs/ (https://mistyricardo.com/balti-chicken-shababs/)
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On the day that the Andy Munro video was recorded at Shababs, Richard Sayce (misty ricardo) was shown the cooking of a Chicken Balti and he has presented it on his website. It is nothing like Mick's 100% clone. It has spices added and the only qualification is that if you use normal BIR base gravy instead of a balti base gravy, he suggests adding an extra 1/4 tsp of garam masala.
I believe it was only last month.
https://mistyricardo.com/balti-chicken-shababs/ (https://mistyricardo.com/balti-chicken-shababs/)
Good spot. I can see similarities in the balti base gravy recipe. An emphasis on spices being added at the curry making stage for this one though. Yes, very interesting. Give it a go; start a thread. Might be another one nailed.
Rob
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I have been following this thread closely and since we are now digressing into other chef's versions of a Balti I feel I can comment.
I have never been to Brum, so never had one of the fabled dishes but I have had "Baltis" from numerous places in West Yorkshire over the last 40 years (Not sure what you can make of that qualification!).
I am not inclined to make this Base as it is only for this one dish and to be honest, I am not a great fan of Cassia/Cinnamon so when I saw the massive amount and the stress placed on using that quantity (with almost no other spices given the volume) I immediately decided to give it a miss. So without that, does it make the Balti's I have eaten and subsequently cooked Bland? I would say not.
What I will comment on is if all the 'cooking' is essentially done in the base and I believe the reduction there is the key (I have over reduced sauces and gravies before in other cooking styles and ended up with extremely strong flavours but not always palatable), then maybe the other spice flavours come back to the fore, however I wonder how much of that would be once again from the Cassia.
Rarely do I cook with Red meats anymore... for no other reason than the cost... and imho Chicken just cannot stand out in an actual Balti.
BAJ.
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I have never been to Brum, so never had one of the fabled dishes but I have had "Baltis" from numerous places in West Yorkshire over the last 40 years (Not sure what you can make of that qualification!).
I make of it that, like me, you've never actually eaten a real balti. You've had the "add a teaspoon of Pataks balti paste and throw it in a karhai" BIR style balti ... which is not a true balti.
I am not inclined to make this Base as it is only for this one dish and to be honest, I am not a great fan of Cassia/Cinnamon so when I saw the massive amount and the stress placed on using that quantity (with almost no other spices given the volume) I immediately decided to give it a miss. So without that, does it make the Balti's I have eaten and subsequently cooked Bland? I would say not.
If you've read through then you know I am not enamoured with this balti curry either. But the base is a fine starting point for normal BIR curries so you wouldn't be wasting it if you made the balti and didn't like it. For me the cassia is only evident, and even then only slightly, in the base sauce. It's totally lost in the curry although does give a different flavour overall which probably defines this particular version of balti chicken. Really, you should try it.
Rarely do I cook with Red meats anymore... for no other reason than the cost... and imho Chicken just cannot stand out in an actual Balti.
Well for me it's just the opposite. As long as the chicken is precooked and not added raw it easily stands out because the balti curry is so bland (in my opinion). We need more opinions of this base and curry, give it a go.
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I have never been to Brum, so never had one of the fabled dishes but I have had "Baltis" from numerous places in West Yorkshire over the last 40 years (Not sure what you can make of that qualification!).
Bob. The Birmingham Balti experience is not limited to Birmingham. From experience, the magic was also evident in Manchester (Rusholme) back in the day, in abundance. My home city. I've also lived in West Yorks, Leeds. Again, back in the day, it was here too. In each case, on the menu, it was not even called a balti. I don't know if "it" is there now, but I will at some point check out Manchester. I would love to try a Bradford curry "balti".
Not sure if this applies to you but I will say it anyway. For Mick's recipe you have to clear your mind. The common denominator here is Pakistani BIR. It has nothing in common with Bangladeshi BIR in this context (Balti), which is where all the confusion lies. Forget the blank canvass and pastes, etc. Get the base gravy right and it's job done, end of. Mick's recipe is perfect. Give it a go.
Rob
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Well, it took a little longer than I planned but yesterday I got around to trying this.
That HUGE amount of cassia required wiped out my stock but I did weight it up. And to my total surprise, it didn’t overpower the finished curry at all. But next time I’m going to try with a more typical couple of sticks and see if there’s a difference.
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/9339c69d77dae57e4802a77dfe582683.jpeg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#9339c69d77dae57e4802a77dfe582683.jpeg)
Rather than the boil for an hour method, I went with my trusted Instant Pot pressure cook for 45 mins. I had no red pepper and just one carrot that I didn’t bother weighing. Other than that, followed the recipe exactly. I added 1 tsp regular chilli powder listed as optional.
I cooked one dish first, for me to try and the resulting curry was good. Got the approval of Mrs Robbo, so that was her dinner. It needed more heat for me though, so the 2nd dish got a fresh habanero I’d just picked from the garden. No other spices added.
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/bef6a698353e62aa77216a4d1fe57186.jpeg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#bef6a698353e62aa77216a4d1fe57186.jpeg)
I served with naan and rice (I know, I know) and it was delicious. Last night, I gave it a solid 8/10, but this morning, on the key “reheat for breakfast” it was up to a more solid 9/10. Definitely improved overnight, or maybe it’s that thing about sensory overload while you’re cooking then eating. Either way, a great start to my Sunday.
Thanks Mick. Really looking forward to turning this base into a vindaloo.
Robbo
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Good on you Robbo, the more who try this the better. I really like the gravy and the curries I ended up making with it (and additional flavour).
That photo of your Cassia has me perplexed. With the exception of a few pieces, most of your weighed amount looks to me more like cinnamon quills. The trouble with spices out of India is that naming and packaging is very random. My previous large pack was clearly packaged and labelled as Cassia. My recent attempt to purchase more, in consultation with one of the Singh brothers, had him trying to convince me that cinnamon quills were the same thing. I persevered and insisted I wanted the flat outer bark called Cassia and he produced a pack which appears to be the right stuff, incorrectly labelled. I'd have been concerned about using that much cinnamon, but it appears to have worked for you, so who knows?
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That photo of your Cassia has me perplexed. With the exception of a few pieces, most of your weighed amount looks to me more like cinnamon quills.
They look nothing like cinnamon quills whatsoever to me, Livo — far too coarse and thick. Cinnamon quills are much finer and thinner, almost paper thin. Robbo's look identical to my cassia bark.
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** Phil.
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I remember looking up cassia v cinnamon and I thought I understood it once but now I’m not so sure. Either way, that base of mick’s is very good and I’ll certainly be repeating it. I’m definitely going to try with much less of that ingredient though, it just seems overkill, putting all that into 1 pint of stock. But it passed the taste test for me, hands down.
Robbo
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Hi Robbo
Glad youre still persevering with the recipe. The large amount of cassia is absolutely critical in the recipe. I experimented with different amounts over time but found the 55g to be the optimum amount for the best flavour without overpowering the finished balti
I have remade this 5 or 6 times since I posted the recipe. The only difference I have made is to reduce the chilli to 1 tsp. This is because my whole family literally can’t get enough of it – ageing from 3 – 85! They all tell me that it is consistently the best curry I have made for them
OK I can imagine what some of you are thinking………..
Also I have given the recipe to five complete novices to try. They have never made a curry from scratch before but I supplied them with all the spices. Four of them absolutely love it, the fifth person is still yet to try it.
I can confidently say that if you think its bland then you must be doing something wrong!!!
Anyway after reading all of the comments, I have changed the methodology of my recipe but not the ingredients.
Its now a much simpler 2 pan affair without a lot of the faff
Maybe this simplification will help some of you.... :clown2:
MDB’s Birmingham Balti Gravy 100% Clone Al Frash Balti Restaurant and simple Balti Recipie
For the Gravy you will need:
• Stick Blender
• A fine sieve
• Weighing Scales
• 1 Large Pan with lid for onions approx. 5 litres
• 1 Small/Medium pan with lid for Akhni Stock approx. 1 litre
Ingredients:
Vegetable oil – not olive oil
1 kg onion, roughly chopped
1 tsp salt
small pinch Ajwain seeds
1/2 green and 1/2 red pepper, chopped
125g fresh carrot, roughly chopped
Whole Spices:
Weigh 55g pieces of cassia bark broken up into 1 inch pieces
5 cloves
10 green cardamom pods pierced
3 star anise
5 tej patta (Indian bay leaves) dried DON’T use normal bay leaves – omit instead
Spice Mix: (rounded teaspoons)
2 tsp chilli powder (optional)
2.5 tsp coriander powder
1.5 tsp cumin powder
3 tsp turmeric powder
2.5 tsp curry powder
a good pinch kasoori methi (dried Fenugreek Leaves)
2 tsp garam masala powder
Large handful fresh coriander
30g peeled fresh garlic
30g peeled fresh ginger
250g of chopped tomatoes
Method:
Take the large pan and add:
1 chefs spoon vegetable oil
1 kg onion, roughly chopped
1 tsp salt
1pint cold water
1/2 green and 1/2 red pepper, chopped
125g fresh carrot, roughly chopped
30g peeled fresh garlic (bash with side of knife to make peeling easy)
30g peeled fresh ginger (I peel with teaspoon)
Using a blender, blitz 30g garlic and 30g ginger with a small amount of water into an emulsion and
add to the onions
Bring to the boil. Cover and simmer for 1 hr stirring frequently
While the onions are cooking:
take:
whole spices,
Drop these into the second pan, along with 1 pint of water and simmer with lid on for an hour stirring occasionally to make an Akhni Stock
After an hour strain the Akhni Stock from the second pan through the fine sieve directly into the large pan of onions
discard the whole spices.
stir well
Add the chopped tomato, with the powdered spices into the large pan of onions and allow to simmer for five minutes
Add additional water to desired gravy consistency.
The Gravy is now ready to use.
Once cooled, it can be stored in the refrigerator for 4-5 days without any problem
To make simple balti:
No need for additional ground spices or extra salt!
Ingredients:
Cooking Oil - any will do except olive oil
¼ medium onion Finely chopped
¼ medium tomato Finely chopped
Garlic Paste
Roughly chopped fresh coriander (to taste) I use quite a lot
Method:
In a frying pan on medium heat add 1 chef spoon oil
add onion
When just starting to go brown around the edges
add 1/2 tsp minced garlic
Once the spitting has stopped
Add 1/2 large raw chicken breast diced into 1inch cubes (pre-cooked chicken can be used but add after 3rd reduction to avoid overcooking)
Turn up heat
Add 1st ladle gravy
Reduce well until oil starts to separate
Add 2nd ladle gravy
add the chopped tomato
Reduce well until oil starts to separate
Add 3rd ladle gravy, stir in chopped fresh coriander and reduce to desired consistency
finish on low heat until chicken is cooked
Leave to stand for a few minutes and serve with hot naan.
Regards
Mick
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I can confidently say that if you think its bland then you must be doing something wrong!!!
I've been doing curries for a looooooong time Mick and I can tell you, barring a couple of small errors, the effects of which I know and so can account for, I did nothing wrong in making this balti base. The obvious alternative explanation, and the one I suspect is the real reason, is that you and the others who love the balti just prefer mild, no, lets call it what it is, bland curries. To be clear, I didn't dislike this balti chicken curry, it's just that I found it too bland for my taste.
That said, when I've got around to making this other balti base and trying it out, I'll return to your version and stick to the letter of your recipe and try the balti chicken again. Even if I still don't rate it as used in a balti curry it'll be no loss as I rate the base highly for standard BIR curries. I'm glad you posted it because it's a good base and it made for a really interesting thread - well, several threads now.
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I can confidently say that if you think its bland then you must be doing something wrong!!!
..... I did nothing wrong in making this balti base. The obvious alternative explanation, and the one I suspect is the real reason, is that you and the others who love the balti just prefer mild, no, lets call it what it is, bland curries. To be clear, I didn't dislike this balti chicken curry, it's just that I found it too bland for my taste.
I was going to post the same. I did the gravy and Balti exactly as specified. I liked it but found it ordinarily bland, as did you. I also rate the gravy as a really good gravy and I like the Balti dishes I made with it using my additional Balti paste. I'd have to go back and do it again to be convinced that I'd possibly done something "wrong".
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I can confidently say that if you think its bland then you must be doing something wrong!!!
..... I did nothing wrong in making this balti base. The obvious alternative explanation, and the one I suspect is the real reason, is that you and the others who love the balti just prefer mild, no, lets call it what it is, bland curries. To be clear, I didn't dislike this balti chicken curry, it's just that I found it too bland for my taste.
I was going to post the same. I did the gravy and Balti exactly as specified. I liked it but found it ordinarily bland, as did you. I also rate the gravy as a really good gravy and I like the Balti dishes I made with it using my additional Balti paste. I'd have to go back and do it again to be convinced that I'd possibly done something "wrong".
If any aspect of Mick's recipes are coming out bland, or ordinary, something has most definitely gone pear-shaped. Will be making it again this week, won't change a thing. I'll report back with some thoughts. Can't see me making any other BIR curry ever again. It's that good. Not just a little bit better, the difference/results you should be getting are seismic. There really is nothing else like it. Remember also, we've all made many other base gravies and curries to compare it with. An added bonus with Mick's base recipe is it's all done in an hour. Easy! I'll be doing the same for Misty's base next time too.
Rob
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Remember also, we've all made many other base gravies and curries to compare it with.
Exactly!
And on that basis the balti curry is the blandest of bland. Quite literally the least flavoursome of all curries I've ever made. That's just a statement of fact from my experience of it compared to all other curries I've ever had. As I say, I will eventually get around to making it again but I doubt we will ever concur on its merits or lack thereof so we'll have to agree to disagree.
I do find it fascinating though that we are so divergent in our opinion of it. The only other curry I can recall being so at odds with other people on was CT's madras which used a tablespoon of kashmiri chilli powder that I found very unpalatable. Turns out the brand I used was particularly bitter and I eventually retried it with MDH kashmiri chilli which made it a lot better but I could still detect an unpleasant undertone of bitterness. But I'm certain I haven't made that sort of error in this balti base.
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If any aspect of Mick's recipes are coming out bland, or ordinary, something has most definitely gone pear-shaped. Will be making it again this week, won't change a thing. I'll report back with some thoughts. Can't see me making any other BIR curry ever again. It's that good.
Given your and Mick's enthusiasm for this curry it is a must-try for me, notwithstanding the dissenting opinion of Secret Santa.
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If any aspect of Mick's recipes are coming out bland, or ordinary, something has most definitely gone pear-shaped. Will be making it again this week, won't change a thing. I'll report back with some thoughts. Can't see me making any other BIR curry ever again. It's that good.
Given your and Mick's enthusiasm for this curry it is a must-try for me, notwithstanding the dissenting opinion of Secret Santa.
Give it a rest George. I've been cajoling you to make this since I tried it myself. Now, let's see if you actually do it this time and finally provide some positive input to the forum and this thread.
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Secret Santa - fair enough. I'd say you stand a good chance I will side with you because my experience of trying recipes from this forum has been poor. Exceptions are Blades tikka and the h4c naan bread. The best recipes by far are those I have worked out for myself and even techniques I have worked out for myself but decline to write up here or anywhere.
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The best recipes by far are those I have worked out for myself and even techniques I have worked out for myself but decline to write up here or anywhere.
Do you not feel that to be a little one-sided, George ? You are happy to try others' recipes which are freely published here yet decline to publish your own ? Not the sort of attitude I would have expected from one of our most senior members ... Oh, and I should add that I purchase a 300gm pack of cassia bark (wrongly labelled "Cinnamon") specifically to try my hand at making this much-lauded balti ...
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** Phil.
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When I first made this base gravy I made it exactly as described. No variation and I weighed the cassia and onions and used the stated rounded tsp measures. No mistakes. Timing of the procedure was as specified. The base was exactly as it should have been.
I then cooked the Balti Chicken exactly as described so we must assume that I had before me the exact same 100% Al Frash clone Balti Chicken. It wasn't only me who said it was bland. If you go back to my initial post about this, you'll see that my good wife's first impression was the same. I immediately had no hesitation or second thought about concurring with Secret Santa. The dish was not "bad", but it was very underwhelming in respect to any richness in flavour. We ate it but we immediately thought it was just lacking.
Having said this, I have also said that I then went on to use the base to make really nice dishes by adding further spicing, mostly in the form of homemade balti paste. I've now gone on and made the Shababs and Rishton single Balti Chicken. I've done Misty Ricardo's balti gravy and Balti Chicken. They are not bland. They are not standard BIR either. I've also made Balti Prawns, Balti Chicken & Mushroom, Balti Chicken & Spinach and most recently a modified to base gravy Balti Lamb. All of these dishes with the inclusion of further spicing and / or Shababs gravy have been really good.
I'm not doing anything wrong. The Balti Chicken described in this thread, cooked to specification, in my opinion is left lacking flavour. So far 2 people say it's taste nirvana and 2 people say meh. What is agreed is that we need others to cook it and add to the discussion.
My wife said to me during our last curry meal, just the other day, "I prefer the curries you used to make."
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Do you not feel that to be a little one-sided, George ? You are happy to try others' recipes which are freely published here yet decline to publish your own ? Not the sort of attitude I would have expected from one of our most senior members ... Oh, and I should add that I purchase a 300gm pack of cassia bark (wrongly labelled "Cinnamon") specifically to try my hand at making this much-lauded balti ...
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** Phil.
So your Cassia Bark is also incorrectly labelled Phil? That's not really surprising if it's coming out of India. Shake a leg mate and bash this out so you can make an informed appraisal.
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Things that could "go wrong"!!
I made 50% quantity and if anything I rounded spicing up. This would not account for deficiency in spice flavour.
Ingredients:
Vegetable oil – not olive oil I used 2 TBSP (1/2 Chef spoon) of vegetable oil
1 kg onion, roughly chopped I used a weighed 500 grams
1 tsp salt 1/2 tsp used
small pinch Ajwain seeds a few grains of Ajwain used
1/2 green and 1/2 red pepper, chopped 1/4 of each used
125g fresh carrot, roughly chopped approx 60 g used
Whole Spices:
Weigh 55g pieces of cassia bark (I know it sounds a lot but trust me…) 27.5 grams used. Broken up pieces from bottom of container
5 cloves 3 cloves used
10 green cardamom pods pierced 5 used
3 star anise 1.5 used
5 tej patta (Indian bay leaves) dried DON’T use normal bay leaves – omit instead size is a non critical issue here. I used 3 medium (80 cm)
Spice Mix:
2 tsp chilli powder (optional) being optional means non critical but I used 1 tsp of hot Indian Paprika (ie: KRCP)
2.5 tsp coriander powder 1.5 tsp
1.5 tsp cumin powder 1 level tsp
3 tsp turmeric powder 1.5 tsp
2.5 tsp curry powder This could have affect. I used 1.5 tsp of Mother's Recipe Mild Curry Powder
a good pinch kasuri methi (dried Fenugreek Leaves) I used enough
2 tsp garam masala powder This could have affect. I used a generic proprietary brand 1 tsp
Large handful fresh coriander 1/2 cup of chopped used
30g peeled fresh garlic 3 large cloves. Easily 15 grams
30g peeled fresh ginger 15 grams fresh used
250g of chopped tomatoes I used 1/2 can of premium chopped tomatoes w/ additional paste concentrate
I understand some people will insist that my mistake was making 1/2 quantity. This is not the case with Base Gravy which I have found to be easily and successfully scaled to any quantity desired and if only performing a 1 step halving or doubling is perfectly acceptable.
Having made this base as specified and then following up with the Chicken Balti (pretty simple dish to cook), where did it go wrong?
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Things that could "go wrong"!!
Having made this base as specified and then following up with the Chicken Balti (pretty simple dish to cook), where did it go wrong?
My money would be on it going wrong when making the akhni stock.
Rob
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Also I have given the recipe to five complete novices to try. They have never made a curry from scratch before but I supplied them with all the spices. Four of them absolutely love it, the fifth person is still yet to try it.
So you think five novices who have not even made any sort of curry before are all qualified to make this base sauce without error but me and livo who have huge experience of making all sorts of curry over many years aren't and must have messed up somehow? Hmmmm, I think your logic is a bit skewed.
And these five lab rats, what sort of curries do they usually eat? Is it standard BIR or balti or both? And what is there usual curry, the bland korma side of things or the fuller flavoured savoury madras type curries? This all has bearing on the validity of your test.
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Things that could "go wrong"!!
Having made this base as specified and then following up with the Chicken Balti (pretty simple dish to cook), where did it go wrong?
My money would be on it going wrong when making the akhni stock.
Really? You think cooking whole spices in a pan of water is the hardest part to follow? And yeah, yeah, I did accidentally leave the lid off so had more water loss than I should have but you think that is the reason I find the base bland? The mind boggles! I'm finding it hard to judge whether your responses are just designed as a wind up or as genuine, thoughtful input.
Anyway, we'll find out when I eventually get around to making it again, to the letter (spoiler, it ain't gonna make an ounce of difference).
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... I purchase a 300gm pack of cassia bark (wrongly labelled "Cinnamon") specifically to try my hand at making this much-lauded balti ...
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** Phil.
So your Cassia Bark is also incorrectly labelled Phil? That's not really surprising if it's coming out of India. Shake a leg mate and bash this out so you can make an informed appraisal.
It seems it is correctly labelled. From Wikipedia, " Cassia is also the English common name of some species in the genus Cinnamomum of the family Lauraceae." And cinnamomum is just cinnamon, so they are quite correct in labelling the cassia as cinnamon.
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I understand some people will insist that my mistake was making 1.2 quantity. This is not the case with Base Gravy which I have found to be easily and successfully scaled to any quantity desired and if only performing a 1 step halving or doubling is perfectly acceptable.
Having made this base as specified and then following up with the Chicken Balti (pretty simple dish to cook), where did it go wrong?
I don't have any issue with the linear scaling of base quantities. The only possible error would be you didn't do the scaling accurately for whatever reason. So maybe you wanted to scale by half but forgot this for one or more of the ingredients and used the full quantity instead. But that would add flavour to the base and also it seems unlikely you'd make this error for more than one ingredient. I have made this sort of mistake myself though in the past, usually as a result of transcribing original quantities wrongly or just having a brain fart while doing the scaling. I'm sure that didn't happen for me on this one though.
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Things that could "go wrong"!!
Having made this base as specified and then following up with the Chicken Balti (pretty simple dish to cook), where did it go wrong?
My money would be on it going wrong when making the akhni stock.
Really? ...yeah, yeah, I did accidentally leave the lid off so had more water loss than I should have but you think that is the reason I find the base bland?
Whilst you would end up with less liquid stock, wouldn't you by the same token end up with a more concentrated stock*? We have all done that with base before (reduced) so that we can rehydrate during cooking.
*assumption that the cooking time was the same and the liquid loss did not force an early stop to the stock production, which might reduce the concentration of flavours.
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It seems it is correctly labelled. From Wikipedia, " Cassia is also the English common name of some species in the genus Cinnamomum of the family Lauraceae." And cinnamomum is just cinnamon, so they are quite correct in labelling the cassia as cinnamon.
You may well be the world's expert on what one should expect from a true Brummie balti, Santa, but your grasp of both first-order predicate logic and taxonomy seem sadly lacking ... Let me take your argument to bits piece by piece —
"Cassia is also the English common name of some species in the genus Cinnamomum of the family Lauraceae" — so "Some X are Y", where "X" is "some species in the genus Cinnamomum of the family Lauraceae", and Y is "commonly called Cassia". Fine so far. But then we have "Cinnamomum is just cinnamon" ("all X are Y," where "X" is "species of Cinnamomum" and "Y" is "cinnamon"). And here it falls down. Just as all primates are mammals but not all mammals are primates, so all cinnamon is harvested from Cinnamomum but not all species of Cinnamomum yield (true) cinnamon. Cinnamon is, in fact, "the inner bark of an East Indian tree (Cinnamomum zeylanicum), dried in the sun, in rolls or ‘quills’, and used as a spice. It is of a characteristic yellowish brown colour, brittle, fragrant, and aromatic, and acts as a carminative and restorative". Cassia, on the other hand, is "an inferior kind of cinnamon, esp. the bark obtained from Cinnamomum cassia; thicker, coarser, less delicate in flavour, and cheaper than the true cinnamon. More fully cassia-bark".
Stick to your baltis, Santa !
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My money would be on it going wrong when making the akhni stock.
Rob
Boiling some whole spices in a pan of water (and I used a lid)? :mute: This can't be taken seriously and is about as likely a source of error as using 50 g or 60 g of Cassia Bark instead of the optimal 55 g would be. Also, I can assure that I didn't make any mistakes in my reductions for half quantities, other than intentionally. Not that it would matter anyway since any initial error would end up being spread out over 8 to 10 Baltis (or curries) or in my case 4 or 5 for half quantity.
So Phil, I'm assuming you have bought a pack of Cassia Bark (Ingredients: cinnamomum spp) that is labelled Cinnamon, as did I. I presume you intend to try this Balti gravy and dish.
It's a shame we still have only 4 members who have cooked it. We need to go to the tie breaker round.
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So Phil, I'm assuming you have bought a pack of Cassia Bark (Ingredients: cinnamomum spp) that is labelled Cinnamon, as did I. I presume you intend to try this Balti gravy and dish.
That is indeed my aim and intention, Livo. Just finishing a 3-month project, which means that for the first time in 3 months I may actually have time to cook more for dinner than an egg-and-anchovy sandwich (tonight's meal).
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** Phil.
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Things that could "go wrong"!!
Having made this base as specified and then following up with the Chicken Balti (pretty simple dish to cook), where did it go wrong?
My money would be on it going wrong when making the akhni stock.
Really? You think cooking whole spices in a pan of water is the hardest part to follow? And yeah, yeah, I did accidentally leave the lid off so had more water loss than I should have but you think that is the reason I find the base bland? The mind boggles! I'm finding it hard to judge whether your responses are just designed as a wind up or as genuine, thoughtful input.
Anyway, we'll find out when I eventually get around to making it again, to the letter (spoiler, it ain't gonna make an ounce of difference).
I wouldn't dream of winding you (or anyone) up Santa. I did wonder if somehow you vented most of your volatiles up the extractor fan. If so, it would botch this truly amazing recipe. Perhaps assuming all spices behave similarly in terms of volume reduction/concentration is an over-simplification? I don't know; you are the expert. Have you found your lid? :wink:
The only reference to the amount of reduction (akhni) I have seen is in the Kushi book (pre-cooked vegetables, page 21). Approximately 50 % is suggested. I have made Mick's stock 3 times. Each time got quite a bit more than 50 %, I think. There is a photo somewhere on the forum; I cant find it. Livo?
Rob
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I'm not understanding what you're asking of me Rob. I must've missed something.
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I'm not understanding what you're asking of me Rob. I must've missed something.
Yes, sorry livo. The recent pre-cooked lamb. Somewhere I replied to your posts on this with a link to one of my photos. Pyrex jug containing MDB akhni. Can you find it anywhere please?
Rob
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Click on your name, click on "Show posts", and you'll find it (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=47533.msg185503#msg185503) on page 4.
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** Phil.
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Click on your name, click on "Show posts", and you'll find it (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=47533.msg185503#msg185503) on page 4.
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** Phil.
Ta Phil
MDB akhni stock. To spec, 1 hr boil/simmer.
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/da656c6fb9f6c9470f51c89b2fcf7f06.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#da656c6fb9f6c9470f51c89b2fcf7f06.jpg)
Rob
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How did you get 16 fl Oz of water to boil down to only 7 fl Oz in 1 hour in a saucepan with the lid on? I used the smallest pot with lid I have as I used only 300 ml to start with for half qty. I'll admit now that my akhni stock was not as concentrated or dark in colour as your photograph shows. I don't understand how you got that with the ingredients and instructions provided. Where did the colour come from?
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How did you get 16 fl Oz of water to boil down to only 7 fl Oz in 1 hour in a saucepan with the lid on? I used the smallest pot with lid I have as I used only 300 ml to start with for half qty. I'll admit now that my akhni stock was not as concentrated or dark in colour as your photograph shows. I don't understand how you got that with the ingredients and instructions provided. Where did the colour come from?
Interesting livo. Yes, made it 3 times so far with similar reduction and colour. The first time was a bit unnerving. Was glad I didn't leave it on for any longer than 1 h. It's actually come down from the 1 pint mark. My pan lid is vented. However, I think the main factor here will be my "simmer" that would be better-described as a rolling boil. Guess I've given it more stick than you. Just remembered I swapped-out some of the green cardos for black for this stock (photo), so not exactly to spec. Expect the colour is mainly from the cassia though, almost certain given the quantity of it. Will be making another batch of base tomorrow and post some more pics. I wonder if this relevant to the results we are getting? I don't have the answer. I won't change anything though. As we know from Mick, the cassia is fundamental to the recipe. It's worth thinking about.
Rob
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Please show us your Cassia bark. It is clearly releasing a lot more colour than mine, and I presume Santa's. There would be very little colour coming from the other spices.
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Please show us your Cassia bark. It is clearly releasing a lot more colour than mine, and I presume Santa's. There would be very little colour coming from the other spices.
Sure. This was what I used for the first batch:
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/ebb7d1864364742fe8b80d0aedb11b03.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#ebb7d1864364742fe8b80d0aedb11b03.jpg)
Can't remember the brand. It was labelled as Chinese Cinnamon and was a produce of China.
These are two other brands:
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/764e5fc83fc1f1d8e905b5ef3b2ee5cf.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#764e5fc83fc1f1d8e905b5ef3b2ee5cf.jpg)
I used the Fudco brand for the second batch. It's nice stuff. No obvious difference except the sticks are more uniform (semi-circular). I don't think the country of origin is indicated on the bag. I used the Yekta (Iran) cassia for the lamb pre-cook. These are laid out in the photo. Will use tomorrow for the MDB base. I also used this one making the Misty base.
All fairly large sticks. It's really coarse/rough, on the outside. Have noticed when immersed in water the colour of the inner surface changes (immediately) to deep amber, a bit like some of the smoother varieties.
Rob
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I don't think I paid very close attention to my evaporation rate or the intensity of colour when preparing the akhni stock on the first go. I know I followed the directions and strained it into the onion mix pot at the appropriate time as per instructions. Anyway, I've done it again.
27/28g of Cassia Bark. (fresh / new)
2 large and 1 smaller Tej Pat (not fresh / new, but not old and I used the really big ones.)
1 large full and 1 half broken Star Anise (fresh / new)
5 Cloves (fresh / new)
6 Green Cardamom pods (pierced and there's 6 instead of 5 because they are smallish. I can't buy the really fresh new big bright green pods here, so I use extra.)
285 ml (1/2 pint) of water (last time I just guessed at a cup and a bit. Doubtful if it made any difference.)
I was hoping to do an exactly timed 1 hour boil but unfortunately, I was called away so there was a 20-minute period, right in the middle, where I just had to turn it off and allow it to sit and steep. This will only strengthen the flavours, so I don't see a problem and I reduced the total boil time to 55 minutes to compensate.
Here are the results. My akhni stock looks as dark in colour as Robs, with some fine grains that have passed through the strainer. My liquid volume has actually reduced even further than his. 285 ml of water has reduced down to a measured 66 ml. The strained whole spices have exactly doubled in mass from a combined 33 grams to 66 grams, so they have absorbed 33 grams of water. This means that 186 ml of water has evaporated in the boiling process.
Tomorrow I will use this in making another half quantity of Balti Base Gravy, followed by another Balti Chicken.
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My second attempt at MDB's Base Gravy is almost done (half quantity again). I just need to add the coriander and blend, then I'll be cooking a Balti Chicken.
How good is the aroma when you dump the spice mix into the oily fried garlic and ginger? I added a splash of water just before doing it to prevent burning but it is 100% that Indian restaurant aroma for sure. Regardless of how I find the Balti dish cooked to spec, I love this gravy.
Some things to note:
This time I paid close attention to really reducing the Akhni stock, not that I think that was the problem last time.
I was very generous with the spices so if it's bland this time, I have no idea.
I was also generous with the oil this time. That seems to be the Balti thing to do.
I used a different "Curry Powder". This time Clive of India instead of Mother's Recipe.
Taste test to follow soon.
20 minutes later:
Well even though I felt this was better, as in not bland, I'm still not a convert to this dish. However, in saying this I think there are several enjoyable things here and I don't dislike it at all. First off, I really do rate this Base Gravy. I just ate lunch of Balti Chicken, and I enjoyed it. I'll probably cook another curry or 2 for our dinner tonight. Off to the shop to buy some prawns in a minute.
This batch of gravy benefited greatly from being "generous" with the spices. Try it again Santa but bump it all up a bit according to your own preferred spices. *See Note I still think that it does need additional salt and even more so, additional flavour. I'll be adding my balti paste, madras paste or mild curry paste to all further dishes. Not much.
The good things. What I really noticed, and like, about this dish is that you can actually separate the individual ingredient flavours and also enjoy it as a whole. You can definitely taste fresh coriander. The tomato is there with a nice tanginess and there is sweetness and savoury from the onion and garlic. The chicken really takes on the curry powder, and there is a general fruitiness about the sauce, which I couldn't quite pinpoint at first.
Unfortunately for me at the moment, I couldn't enjoy this dish with a soft buttery naan, so I had to suffice with a buttered slice of mixed grain gluten free toast. :sad: :tears: I think the naan would be a huge improvement.
* Note: Don't use too much Turmeric. I think I did, and it can be tasted a little bit too much.
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Hi livo. The aroma is proper isn't it? When I last made Mick's base it was a hot and sunny day. Kitchen windows open. My extractor vents into the back garden. The elderly next-door neighbours were pottering around in their garden. The lady is quite deaf and sometimes speaks loudly. I heard her say "Rob's cooking spices again". Her other half grumbled something I did't catch. "It smells like musk!", she said. Made me smile, but I sort of knew what she meant. What it actually smells like is Manchester's Curry Mile on a Saturday night in the early 90's. It takes me back. I lived on Wilmslow Road for a while (student residence). Walking distance from Rusholme. Those were the days.
I am behind schedule making Mick's base gravy. Scored a hefty amount of reduced price fresh chicken at my local supermarket yesterday. Mainly breast fillet, that has gone in the freezer. There was also some diced so decided to pre-cook it last night. Made a goodly amount of garlic /ginger paste and Mick's spice mix (dry ingredients including the chilli powder option). Did a taste-test of the latter, which was interesting. Crikey! It has a right old kick to it. It's lovely stuff (with the warming spices too). I used it to make the pre-ccoked chicken, nice! I also got a fresh Japanese style pork stir-fry concoction (88 % pork loin) reduced price on my visit to the supermarket. Was going to have it last night, but the chicken pre-cook was so good i had this instead, finished off in my trusty stainless. The pork has gone in the freezer and will probably be forgotten about.
On bumping up the spices. Still not for me. The amount of oil I use for Mick's recipes is also to spec. That's already a decent amount for a 1 kg base and, a pretty standard cs for the final curry. Your photos look good, but I would like to see some oil separation, especially if you are planning to add more. Gives the option of spooning-off, if wanted. If you start mopping-up the baltis with naan breads there is a good chance you'll pile on the pounds. I have been on a keto diet for years, so the oil doesn't bother me; that's what I tell myself anyway.
Rob
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For some reason I could not get the same oil separation in the steel wok, even though I had more oil in the gravy and for starting the dish. I was reluctant to cook it harder for fear of over-cooking the chicken. I did shake the pan around over the gas and had some ignition and flaming though, particularly on the first addition of gravy. It really ignited into nice orange flame which was something new to me on my cooker. It was a huge improvement with the bump up of spice (for me anyway). Maybe I was a bit light on with the first one.
Now, for tonight's dinner I had Balti Red Schnapper and Crystal Bay Prawns. Wow. Only 1 teaspoon of Balti Paste and a squirt of LJ. The Balti Paste is not Pataks, but my own home made. I'm glad to share because it isn't my recipe anyway. This is the real deal. I'm nearly out and my jar is almost empty, so I'll be doing a new batch soon. It lasts for 2 years without issue in the fridge.
You are absolutely on the money with the aroma of this gravy. I bet my neighbours are going crazy. Unfortunately, you become a bit olfactorily challenged in the kitchen, but when that spice mix hits the oil with the G&G it is the one.
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Honestly guys, I've posted this link before. It is one of the only recipes out there for a Balti Paste made at home. Surprisingly, it is from Australia, but take my word for it, I've been using this for over 10 years, and I swear by it. It is actually really easy to do and a lot of fun as well. I love it and I've rescued some very ordinary curry, after the fact, by adding a bit of this. It is easy to do, lasts for ages and is absolutely delicious, particularly with lamb. Add some of this to your next Balti and you will be amazed at the difference it makes.
I use vegetable oil instead of Olive Oil and then add a good covering over the jarred paste as well. The last 2 TBSP of my current batch has gone a bit dry.
https://www.kidspot.com.au/kitchen/recipes/balti-paste-scratch/n805h9rv (https://www.kidspot.com.au/kitchen/recipes/balti-paste-scratch/n805h9rv)
Don't be put off by the procedure. You can do all that if you want, but, you don't have to go through the Mortar and Pestle pounding. Just get the spices all powdered up and mix it all together or use a blender / grinder. I've never been to Birmingham but believe me, these are the Balti Spices in a jar.
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Nooo! No balti paste! Very naughty. This is the Birmingham Balti we are talking about here. For heaven's sake livo, I have a good mind to tell Andy Munroe about you, :wink: No spice grinders needed either.
Just looked at your link. All of the ingredients in the recipe (and more) are already in the MDB base (there is fennel in East End curry powder). Hmm. I wonder if you are not giving it enough wellie. Turn the heat up man. Live life on the edge!
Rob
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I’ll give that paste a go. I’m not looking to replicate the Birmingham balti exactly, but anything that gives me a great result is worth trying. Just need to find decent cardamom seeds to eliminate the need to split so many pods, which is a right royal pain.
Lahore Bob mentioning Rusholme takes me back. My then girlfriend was at Manchester Uni, and I used to bus down to stay with her in Ashburne Hall back in the late 80’s. Some great curry houses down there.
Robbo
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Hi Livo
Thanks for persevering with my recipe. Just 2 things really:
the whole idea of the lid for the akhni stock is to stop reduction and keep the aromatics.
I would have thought that If youre losing steam then you'll also be losing aromatics
The second thing is that the simplified recipe adds the g&g pure straight to the onions at the beginning of cooking, and the toms & powdered spices are added almost at the end of cooking. I am hoping that by doing this there will be more consistency with the final gravy. (See Post #140)
My five "lab rats" have confirmed this lol
Regards
Mick
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Unless you're using a sealed pressure vessel it's pretty hard to avoid evaporation (steam escape) from even a lidded pan. My saucepan lid only has 3 little holes on the side, but I was surprised by the total loss of volume over a 1-hour boil. I actually cooked a stock last night in my pressure cooker. About 20 chicken thigh bones, all of the Balti whole spices but not the full amount of Cassia, some Panch Phoran and a little Shah Jeera in roughly 2 litres of water.
I'm rating the base gravy and the Balti Chicken I had for lunch yesterday was totally enjoyable. The seafood Balti I had for dinner was better. Most everything the same with just that 1 tsp of paste added with the garlic once the onions are done.
Rob, I understand that from a purist's perspective the Birmingham Balti is sacrosanct, but if I add 1 tsp of my home-made Balti Paste and it elevates the dish for me, then you can guess what I'll be doing. Your correct in saying that all of the spices are already there but somehow the addition of this paste lifts the flavour profile immensely. Why would you nor do it? Please don't report me to Andy! :clown2:
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Unless you're using a sealed pressure vessel it's pretty hard to avoid evaporation (steam escape) from even a lidded pan. My saucepan lid only has 3 little holes on the side, but I was surprised by the total loss of volume over a 1-hour boil. I actually cooked a stock last night in my pressure cooker. About 20 chicken thigh bones, all of the Balti whole spices but not the full amount of Cassia, some Panch Phoran and a little Shah Jeera in roughly 2 litres of water.
I'm rating the base gravy and the Balti Chicken I had for lunch yesterday was totally enjoyable. The seafood Balti I had for dinner was better. Most everything the same with just that 1 tsp of paste added with the garlic once the onions are done.
Rob, I understand that from a purist's perspective the Birmingham Balti is sacrosanct, but if I add 1 tsp of my home-made Balti Paste and it elevates the dish for me, then you can guess what I'll be doing. Your correct in saying that all of the spices are already there but somehow the addition of this paste lifts the flavour profile immensely. Why would you nor do it? Please don't report me to Andy! :clown2:
I made Mick's base again last night livo. To spec, original recipe (but see later). It's in the fridge, I haven't blended it yet. Looks good. Agree with your comments on the stock. The lid I use also has 3 little holes. I blanked them off this time. Made no difference, the steam still found a way out. I got the same amount of reduction as before. Reproducibility is a fine thing. I wonder if Mick was thinking to limit the loss rather than completely prevent it. Mick? Could be my burner is too much even on the lowest output. I don't know. Still confident another batch of spectacular dishes will follow though.
Why would I not add the paste to the balti? From my perspective there is already no room for improvement in the recipe; happy to be proven wrong. You can of course add whatever you like to your dishes if you feel it improves/lifts them. However, in this context there is potential for a cock-up. Don't get me wrong, I've done this in the past, many times, I bet many of us have. It's a trap. So, if a BIR recipe (any) doesn't deliver (e.g. it's bland), we tend to bump-up the spices. If that doesn't work, add some more. It's OK now, but the result/recipe are nothing special. I cottoned on to this some time ago when making traditional style efforts.
Setting the stock aside, I would next check you are happy with preparation of the spice mix, specifically the amount of tempering. This is important and can be tricky with powdered spices. I think we can often under-do it; worried about burning. I give it about 20-30 seconds for Mick's recipe, I think; will check this. Then the tomatoes go in and I carry on until a lot of the oil separates. It doesn't take long This should be your oil separation sorted for the base, and the final dish. The balti needs this, imo. Also recall the Shababs videos; adding the spices late on.
I am staying with Mick's original recipe for the foreseeable. The prep of the spice mix I feel is very trad-style. I love frying the ginger/garlic/spices. The method allows you to give it your full attention. Get up close (not too close) to see and smell what's going on. The G/G should sting your eyeballs for a while, and then subside. When the tears stop completely it's not too long before the spices go in. Have fun! If it doesn't work and the balti turns out bland, chuck some paste in :)
I made a little tweak to the recipe this time. A little paprika powder. Purely aesthetic, hoping to get the oil looking like the Al-Frash extra-dry "for ref" photo. It shouldn't affect the flavour; I hope it doesn't anyway.
Mick. Just noticed the 100 ml oil is missing from post #140.
Rob
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I am making a collection of the Birmingham Balti house menus (anorak style). Got some of the best already.
Don't recall I ever tried much other than Balti chicken/lamb, but for each balti house they will have used their base for every curry on the menu. It will be fun having a go at some of them.
Here's a downloadable Al Frash menu; click on "Main Menu" :
www.quandoo.co.uk/place/al-frash-48512/menu
I quite fancy the house specials. Butterfly Special and Butterfly Jalfraize. Chicken and boiled egg, with Mick's base. Oh my word, I am rubbing my hands together!
Rob
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Just made another Balti chicken with the MDB base. First impressions. Another trouser-exploder. Off the chart depth of flavour, with no further additions, except a pinch of salt. Salt should be to taste, I feel. Improved oil colour this time, but not there yet. Dawned on me that the oil aesthetic will not be down to paprika. On reflection, it's a no brainer; it's got to be Kashmiri chilli. Next stop.
Rob
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I quite fancy the house specials. Butterfly Special and Butterfly Jalfraize.
Hmm, I can't help feeling that you would need an enormous number of butterflies to make a worthwhile meal, and by the time you have discarded the wings you would not have a lot left ... I just hope that they use cabbage whites and not purple emperors or large blues.
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I've had a look at the menu. It is a bit confusing. So, at Al Frash you can buy the straight Balti dishes, but you can also order the "usual" restaurant curry dishes like Butter Chicken, Passanda, Rogan Josh, Korma and the like, and add this additional preparation to the Balti. Is that how it works?
All the sides and starters etc are pretty standard fare, with the exception of pureed dishes served in a glass. I've never seen that before, but I suppose it would be helpful if you're taking granny out to dinner or you've broken your jaw in a Rugby match. You can be adventurous and order Madras, Vindaloo of Fhal, referring to heat levels by the look.
Interesting as I've never experienced this type of menu.
While I will continue to experiment with the Balti gravy and flavours, my wife has requested that I return to cooking more normal curries. Last night I obliged and cooked one of her favourites, Masala Shrimp along with a very surprisingly good CTM using MDB's Balti gravy and leftover Sunil Singh Tikka.
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Just made another Balti chicken with the MDB base. First impressions. Another trouser-exploder. Off the chart depth of flavour, with no further additions, except a pinch of salt.
I can only conclude that to profess such fulsome praise on such a bland balti you must have added a secret ingredient. Acid maybe?
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So, at Al Frash you can buy the straight Balti dishes, but you can also order the "usual" restaurant curry dishes like Butter Chicken, Passanda, Rogan Josh, Korma and the like, and add this additional preparation to the Balti. Is that how it works?
I think that is how it works livo. The balti is essentially a curry made just with just the balti base sauce. And thus how can it be anything other than bland? And the "normal" BIR curries are essentially standard BIR fare but using the balti base, which is what we balti virgins are finding very palatable.
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by the time you have discarded the wings you would not have a lot left ...
Discard the wings?!
That's the best bit.
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Just made another Balti chicken with the MDB base. First impressions. Another trouser-exploder. Off the chart depth of flavour, with no further additions, except a pinch of salt.
I can only conclude that to profess such fulsome praise on such a bland balti you must have added a secret ingredient. Acid maybe?
I am actually running low on superlatives Santa. But, it's the lushest-of-the-lush!
Seriously though, cookery. Will you be getting back on top of game anytime soon? :wink:
Rob
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I've had a look at the menu. It is a bit confusing. So, at Al Frash you can buy the straight Balti dishes, but you can also order the "usual" restaurant curry dishes like Butter Chicken, Passanda, Rogan Josh, Korma and the like, and add this additional preparation to the Balti. Is that how it works?
All the sides and starters etc are pretty standard fare, with the exception of pureed dishes served in a glass. I've never seen that before, but I suppose it would be helpful if you're taking granny out to dinner or you've broken your jaw in a Rugby match. You can be adventurous and order Madras, Vindaloo of Fhal, referring to heat levels by the look.
Interesting as I've never experienced this type of menu.
I guess so livo. The standard dishes were/are presumably different, and pan-cooked.
I find that Pakistani chefs are also the kebab-masters hereabouts. So you could expect great starters at the balti houses too, usually.
An emphasis on sharing in the Al Frash menu. All the other places I tried were the same. Platters and table/family naans. No wine list either. I think a lot did end up getting alcohol licenses, but "bring your own booze" was previously the norm. I see some standard BIRs still work this way. Very informal. I liked that.
Rob
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Seriously though, cookery. Will you be getting back on top of game anytime soon? :wink:
I'm keen to but freezer space is at a premium still. I need to wolf a couple of pizzas and maybe then I can begin.
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It appears to me that they are all Baltis but you can either get the bog standard or the other "named dishes" with the additional ingredients. That's the way I read the menu anyhow.
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Thinking about making my next balti base I'm getting a bit confuddled with the options. Should I now make the original recipe MDB base or the rehashed, easier version? Or should I make the other balti base, which I've now completely forgotten where it is or what it's called?
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It appears to me that they are all Baltis but you can either get the bog standard or the other "named dishes" with the additional ingredients. That's the way I read the menu anyhow.
But are the creamy dishes also baltis? If so it must only be by virtue of using the balti base. Do these balti houses run two different base sauces, a balti one and a standard BIR one?
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It appears to me that they are all Baltis but you can either get the bog standard or the other "named dishes" with the additional ingredients. That's the way I read the menu anyhow.
Yes. You could go for a regular balti (e.g. Balti chicken) or one with additions (e.g. Balti Chicken Rogan Josh).
With Micks base and recipe, as it stands, you will get the Balti chicken on the menu. However, with the 2 tsp chilli powder option, you are now close to the "Feeling adventurous?", spicier, hotter offerings; Madras. I think.
Rob
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It looks to me as though any of the named dishes, eg Rogan Josh or Passanda, are each available with any selection from the balti range listed below and repeated in each section. Everything is a balti. Korma, Makhani, Passanda, Rogan Josh, Jal Fraizie, Dopiaza, Bhoona, Dhansak and Pathia are all available in any of the 9 balti options.
Then you have the option to adjust heat. So you could for example order the Balti Tropical Passanda Madras or a Balti Lamb Mince Rogan Josh Vindaloo etc.
Heck, even the tandoor is balti tandoor. I guess you sit at the balti table on a balti chair, order from the balti menu, to be served by the balti waiter and pay with your visa card.
At the risk of coming across as simple, what is Balti Meat?
Balti Meat 7.60
Is this the stuff that Phil talks about being possibly lamb, but probably beef, or is it bush meat of indeterminate origins? Badger or hedgehog maybe. What sort of wild animals do you still have over there. I've got a baby bunny living next to my house at the moment, although not many survive myxomatosis or calicivirus for very long these days.
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Yes, spoilt for choice. I will be using the MDB base this weekend to make a Balti Chicken Tikka Jal-fraizie.
Rob
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Just to repeat what I said somewhere else on the forum that after extensive taste tests of probably 10 or more batches, I do find that this original version of my gravy gives better results than the simplified MK11 version
Regards
Mick
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Oops, wrong thread, now moved to MDBv2 thread
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This was batch number 9 of MK1 Mick and a couple of baltis.
Pre-blend
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/823b45afc01eafd830aaac1a0bb3d1c8.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#823b45afc01eafd830aaac1a0bb3d1c8.jpg)
Balti Chicken (10/10)
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/278505b7455f1f6b65127b4d2675cb75.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#278505b7455f1f6b65127b4d2675cb75.jpg)
Balti Chicken Tikka Masala (10/10)
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/378918201898b3f985df5cbc37cb916d.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#378918201898b3f985df5cbc37cb916d.jpg)
However, more recently, batch 10 (MK1) went wrong for me. My mistake/botch. Got myself a new pressure cooker with a view to saving on the gas. Cooked the veg with it; came out looking like it had been stewed for 3-4 hours. No burning so I carried on with the batch, everything else to spec. No sparkle, lushness almost gone. Base not exactly bland, but miles off how it should be.
Batch 11 coming soon, with to spec 1 hr veg boil.
Rob :)
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Update on my last batch (10) botch. Conclude the base went wrong in spectacular fashion. A dud. Not fit for purpose. No chance of making an authentic balti with it. I taste test blended/pre-dilution. Also tried this batch after letting it down. It was/is sort of bland, pretty similar to typical BIR bases. It crossed my mind to bin it. Instead made a few curries, with a fair few additions. Not bad, but nothing to write home about. A bit like the Chicken Madras I ordered last from my local TA. I still have some of the base left. Reckon a Chicken Phal will be next.
Now sure this went wrong at the Akhni stock stage. Blaming the pressure cooker was nonsense. Thinking back, the cassia bark for this batch was from a newly opened bag and more fragrant than usual (when making the stock). But I think some of the other whole spices (except the cloves) have deteriorated. Time flies by. I have neglected these. Can't pin down the exact ones, but the star anise and green cardos (the most expensive spices) are suspect. It's this or I have reduced the stock too much and lost the flavours here. The amount of reduction is a concern, although all the previous batches have all been fine, so I'll carry on as usual, but with all the spices new.
I will have a new batch made next week. Wish me luck! Need to get back on 10/10. The Holy Grail. Have I mentioned the truly immense depth of flavour before, which should be blindingly obvious with this recipe? We are talking orders of magnitude here, several, better than the best. Toodle pip.
Rob
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Checking the cupboards today to see what I need to get in. Found I only had 33 g cassia bark, so popped it in the pressure cooker for 10 mins at 90 kpa, to see what would happen. Promising. The cassia seemed pretty well stripped. There could be more got out of it, but there is anyway (for me) with regular boiling. The liquid smells strongly of cassia, as does my kitchen. So it may be possible to make the entire Akhni stock in a pressure cooker. A backup at least, if needed.
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/3e61b46abb1fb06ef7550e2ae0bd8773.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#3e61b46abb1fb06ef7550e2ae0bd8773.jpg)
Rob
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Mk1 Balti gravy made to spec (exactly), using brand new fresh spices, straight out of the packet and fresh garlic and ginger. This is not botched in any way.
First dish on the cooker was Balti Shawarma Chicken w/ mushrooms. I'm afraid I simply still do not get it. Even with the additional spicing from the pre-marinated chicken breast, the predominant flavour of the dish is Coriander leaves. Was it nice? It was ok and I enjoyed it, but once again, had this been made with plain chicken breast, it would be dead boring. It may be better tomorrow after a bit of aging.
The Shawarma chicken was 95% chicken breast fillet, Shawarma style rub (5%) Spices (Cumin, Turmeric, Paprika, Coriander seed, Cinnamon, Nutmeg, Chilli, Black Pepper) Garlic, Salt, Onion, Corn Starch, Rice Flour, Herbs (Coriander, Parsley).
I'll try another chicken dish tomorrow using my Balti paste and I have some boned and Indian style marinated lamb leg. Again, I rate this gravy as a "Base Gravy". It just does nothing for me when used alone.
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The Shawarma chicken was 95% chicken breast fillet, Shawarma style rub (5%) Spices (Cumin, Turmeric, Paprika, Coriander seed, Cinnamon, Nutmeg, Chilli, Black Pepper) Garlic, Salt, Onion, Corn Starch, Rice Flour, Herbs (Coriander, Parsley).
Yellow sticker Bernard Matthews? Soz, couldn't help it :wink:
I think I get it livo. So Mick's recipe. MKI. Hypothetically, let's forget the Akhni stock, it doesn't exist, not there, never heard of it. All we have is the spice mix for this base. Now let's just consider the powdered spices (mix power). It's a good (robust) mix powder. Herein lies the curved ball. This hypothetical base (with additions at the pan stage) will produce a fine and dandy curry. But, not a Birmingham Balti, which requires no further addition, to give sublime quality. As I think Mick said, you won't want to make anything else. I truly believe this. It hits nail directly on head, which is why I don't want to see it going under the radar, passed off as just a good easy-to-make gravy, but nothing to rave about.
As I said earlier, will be making another batch this week. Let's see how it goes. There will be no changes to the ingredients. Reckon I'll try making the Akhni stock in the pressure cooker. I'll do this first and go from there. I have a nice new bag of cassia bark. A while back I spoke with Jerry on the phone. We haven't arranged anything, but one day I hope to make Mick's recipe for him. Balti chicken, no additions. I would use chicken strip as I know he likes this. Can't wait to see his reaction. When we spoke sure I mentioned that I thought Mick's balti may actually be better than what we had at Adil's, all those years ago. He may not have heard me. :)
Rob
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Batch 10 (fail) photos. Looks fine, but wasn't. Expect error(s) made during Akhni stock (not shown) prep.
Veg, 4 L pressure cooker
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/d772b494b9913472ba7453035ec18cd2.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#d772b494b9913472ba7453035ec18cd2.jpg)
Spice mix
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/241590b881ee931cdadb523e647f450e.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#241590b881ee931cdadb523e647f450e.jpg)
Pre-blend
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/5d553311c117932d22ebf9d75de3d233.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#5d553311c117932d22ebf9d75de3d233.jpg)
Rob
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I’m with Livo on this. A great, really great base, but the dish on its own is not for me. This is my little spice mix I add and cook in the usual way for an excellent result. I’ve made 4 batches of this base and it’s my go-to right now.
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/b944609cfd9a892343fb8208a2816371.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#b944609cfd9a892343fb8208a2816371.jpg)
Robbo
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Yellow sticker Bernard Matthews? Soz, couldn't help it :wink:
This hypothetical base (with additions at the pan stage) will produce a fine and dandy curry. But, not a Birmingham Balti, which requires no further addition, to give sublime quality. As I think Mick said, you won't want to make anything else. I truly believe this. It hits nail directly on head, which is why I don't want to see it going under the radar, passed off as just a good easy-to-make gravy, but nothing to rave about.
Markdown at Woolworths actually.
All I can say is that if this base, made to recipe, used as the be all and end all creates a Birmingham Balti, I wouldn't bother driving down the road to collect one. I'm sorry if I upset anybody but it just doesn't do anything for me. It's a really good base gravy that can be used to create excellent curry, but it falls flat if used as intended. I also think that in future I will be omitting the coriander and adding it at dish preparation.
This is now my 4th batch and my opinion has not changed from first impressions.
:confusing3:
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Yesterday, I made a basic lamb curry using the boned and spiced lamb shoulder, which I had pre-cooked on slow simmer for about an hour. I fried off a bit of onion and garlic in oil which had tej patta, cassia, clove and a black cardamom spicing, added the diced lamb in its own spices, briefly fried then followed with a bit of water and 1 ladle of the base gravy on simmer (lid on). The curry itself was standard preparation with the addition of 1 TBSP of Mild Curry Paste and ended up being, once again, a delicious lamb curry. I mixed some of the pre-cook liquid through and reduced it down as well.
Served alongside the Balti Chicken Shawarma from the previous night was telling. Although the chicken dish had improved from a day in the fridge, the lamb dish, with additional ingredients was far more enjoyable, as agreed by Mrs L. This version of Birmingham Balti Chicken will not be investigated any further in my kitchen. The gravy is a beauty.
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I just made a dish using this Base Gravy that is way outside MD's original thoughts I would imagine. Hybrid Sri Lankan / Thai / Indian, inspired by a Sri Lankan Seafood Curry I ate while dining out last week, this was made up and adapted as I went using a Youtube video as a starting point. I'll find a more appropriate spot to post what I did while it's fresh in my mind, (so I don't forget).
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Made another batch of MKI over the weekend and it went wrong again. This time I've spotted my mistake. It won't be relevent, per se, to other's results, but the base has come out on the bland side again, so I will report it later. Will need to make another batch of MKI to question if there may be any association. Will do this later this week.
So last night's "Balti Chicken" was OK, but it wasn't Mick's 100% Al Frash clone. Far from on it. I knew it would drop short from taste-testing the gravy, so I pre-cooked the chicken with additions beforehand. A decent enough curry, but once again nothing to get excited about. I tried out the blow torch finish for this one though. Oh yes, sorts the aesthetic out a treat. What I didn't expect was that it also adds smokey flavour to the dish. Apparently a blue butane flame reaches insanely high degrees celsius. Also fun to do.
Will actually soon get through this batch of gravy. The curry I made with the last of batch10 was a Kashmiri Bassar Gosht. Will be making more. I think Santa will approve. The pre-cook is loaded up with bassar masala (the very hot type). A tsp of clear honey to finish. The fresh methi I bought seems to be holding up quite well in the fridge. Will check. Kashmiri Methi Gosht may be doable too.
Rob
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Regrouping.
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/d46e4de265d37ad2f9897d7752eb7279.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#d46e4de265d37ad2f9897d7752eb7279.jpg)
Fortunately, I backed-up all my posts on the transient site, photos too.
Rob
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A couple of this week's efforts.
Pre-cooked chicken breast (500 g) made with MDB's base. Cold/ready for fridge
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/2734784174baa2526d248b6733f15ecb.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#2734784174baa2526d248b6733f15ecb.jpg)
Balti chicken and mushroom (takeaway style). When cooled put in a foil TA container/freezer
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/c0e63077e619d3f135d04c622dc6cda7.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#c0e63077e619d3f135d04c622dc6cda7.jpg)
Balti chicken and mushroom (restaurant style). The above defrosted overnight in fridge and hob re-heated. Brief blow torch around the edges
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/a850fa26fa20cd338707c9cedc0e257a.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#a850fa26fa20cd338707c9cedc0e257a.jpg)
Rob
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Balti Meat (mutton)
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/e529a3e9ce5953d066871965454c3d59.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#e529a3e9ce5953d066871965454c3d59.jpg)
Still a bit oily, but I like it this way.
Rob
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Mmmmm, that looks lush Rob I could eat that right now.....
Out of interest, does the blowtorch add much to the flavour?
Also, Did you manage to figure out what went wrong with batch #10?. I think for best results the gravy needs to rest overnight. Also when making the akhni stock I put a small amount of oil in the pot. The theory is it might reduce the loss of aromatics but to be fair Im not sure if I can tell any difference.
The quality of the cassia is key
Regards
Mick
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Also, Did you manage to figure out what went wrong with batch #10?. I think for best results the gravy needs to rest overnight.
I am a firm believer in aged curry dishes, not only but especially traditionally cooked red meat, being better than straight from the pot. I've never experienced any such benefit from aged base gravy. I often cook finished dishes using freshly prepared gravy and then follow up with using the rest over the following week. I have not noticed any improvement in this, or any other gravy from fresh to aged.
The quality of the cassia is key
Mick, if this is trying to imply that any supposedly "failed" attempt in producing the completed balti gravy, and subsequent balti dish, is singely down to the poor quality or age of the cassia, I for one am not buying it. The first thing I investigated when I was unimpressed by the dish was the possibility of "old" spices, not limited to but including cassia. I immediately went out and bought new fresh packets of cardamom, star anise, tej patta and cassia bark both locally and shortly afterwards from the busiest, highest turnover Indian grocer in the centre of "Little India" Australia, ie: Udaya in Wentworthville . It made zero discernible difference.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, the gravy is great when used as you would any other, but the basic Balti Chicken just didn't do it for me.
What I have found does make a significant difference to this gravy, as it would to any, is the amount of fresh coriander used. I don't mind a bit but if you use too much it is the dominant flavour by far.
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Hi Livo
Im not trying to imply anything.
I am grateful you have given my recipe the benefit of doubt and given it a couple of chances to meet your expectations.
I really cant say much more to you than that. The reason I am asking these questions is because I too have made a duff batch and I cant figure out why. Because of the large quantity of cassia used, most gravies produced come from a different pack of cassia each time, so I think that the cassia is the only variable. I have also observed that the taste of the gravy appears to change quite a lot overnight. Maybe its nose blindness or not I really dont know.
With regards the amount of coriander used, like any recipe its all down to personal taste. The amount I use is specific to replicating the Al Frash balti.
I am sorry if I have offended you with my comments to Rob. I am 100% happy with my recipe, but I realise that its not to everyone's taste.
As I said earlier: Thank you for giving it the benefit of doubt and persevering with it
Regards
Mick
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I'm not offended at all mick and I wasn't intending to have a dig at you either. I just don't see the cassia having any significant affect when you are using that quantity, and I don't see any significant improvement in base gravy from a 24 hour rest, as you sometimes do with finished dishes.
I've made the gravy 4 times and they all turned out the same. I don't understand how both you and Bob have made a dud batch.
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13 batches of Cassia in 1 bag here.
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Hi Livo
The cassia I have used up til now has been in 50g packs - usually but not exclusively East End Brand, and as I said, I have made a duff batch of base that appears to be ok but when I make the curry, the results are very bland and lack the full aroma that I would normally expect. If you've made 4 batches of gravy from the same bag of cassia and they have all come out exactly the same, then maybe that reinforces what i said earlier about inconsistencies in batches of cassia?
Also I have tried numerous gravy recipes over the years, and the majority of them (from memory) state to rest the gravy overnight. Ive never really understood why. I have also noticed that the gravy is somehow thicker the next day as well...weird? There must be something going on in the pot during this resting phase idk?
Regards
Mick
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No, not from the same bag. My first batch was made with the last of my existing Cassia when you first posted the recipe, and I then went and bought a new small bag locally to do #2. The last 2 batches were made with another fresh bag from the Indian Grocer in the city. So, 4 batches of gravy from 3 different bags of Cassia and other older and fresher spices as well. No difference that i could tell.
I was in the city again today which is where I found that 400g bag in the photo. I didn't buy it as I don't need that much.
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13 batches of Cassia in 1 bag here.
Actually 7 and a bit :smile:
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The cassia I have used up til now has been in 50g packs - usually but not exclusively East End Brand, and as I said, I have made a duff batch of base that appears to be ok but when I make the curry, the results are very bland and lack the full aroma that I would normally expect.
Interesting Mick. Sounds very similar to my batch 10 (and 11). Nothing firm on what went wrong, but expect you are spot on with differences in the cassia. Have made a few observations for the latest batch (ultra lush-fest) and batch 11 (bland by comparison). Typing is a bit tricky at the moment so will report later.
Love the torching (show-boating) Just adds a nice smoky flavour. Good for lamb etc. Better special effects than Rings Of Power season 1.
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/1c0acacda7eaa4d1d12911ba5d91d2d5.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#1c0acacda7eaa4d1d12911ba5d91d2d5.jpg)
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/7a44b72f2ccc49dd392d84743c66f801.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#7a44b72f2ccc49dd392d84743c66f801.jpg)
Rob
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Yes. Forgot, I only make 1/2 quantities and use about 30g per go.
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Last night's effort. This weekend's balti sorted. They only get signed-off with the butterfly when approved full on 10/10.
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/3e92392eabe6f68ffe5bb1f39372034a.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#3e92392eabe6f68ffe5bb1f39372034a.jpg)
Rob
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13 batches of Cassia in 1 bag here.
I wouldn't use it livo. A lot of it looks like the sweepings-up.
Rob
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I wouldn't use it livo. A lot of it looks like the sweepings-up.
Hmmm! :uh what:
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Should be able to get my thoughts and experiences with cassia quality, etc., as brought up by MDB started over the next few days. Nothing definitive. To be honest, at the moment, I am am seeing the occasional botch more as an inconvenience than a problem. The thinking here is that the balti chefs will experience exactly the same thing. That said it would be great to see more forum members having success with Mick's base, so it gets the recognition it rightly deserves.
Rob
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Apols got distracted with other stuff. Anyway, just ordered a home delivery from Shababs. Should be here soon.
Saturday night Birmingham balti. Not exactly cheap these days. Cost aside, it will need to be absolutely out-of this-world to get even close to the MKI dishes it is going to get compared with.
Rob
Edit. Another Shababs balti chicken disaster. Sorry for derailing Mick's thread. No chance whatsoever (again) of comparison with MDB's sublime Al Frash. Might improve with blow torch treatment, although as the saying goes, you cant make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Most likely will get binned. Strike, they even messed up my 8 quid seekh kebab sizzler starter. To boot, even the complementary mint dip was a miserable fail.
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Some notes/ideas on cassia quality reiterating/expanding on Mick's suggestions. Not in any particular order. Also appreciate I have left out many other variables.
My assumptions:
The substance present in cassia bark necessary to make the Birmingham balti is in relatively low amounts, which accounts for the seemingly large quantity (55 g) used and the 1 h boil
Oil of cassia (mostly cinnamic aldehyde) is a likely candidate for this substance. Essential volatile oil. 1 - 2 %, dependent on cassia quality. Also used for making chocolate, liqueurs and in perfumery. Intense honey-like sweetness.
Not enough CA, or some other component of cassia present at low levels, results in failure/blandness (MKI base).
Difficulties
Boiling in water is relatively inefficient (compared to closed distillation); some loss of CA is inevitable during preparation of the stock.
Variability of cassia quality within/between brands. There are over 600 varieties of cassia, many of which differ in quality. Some varieties are scraped during harvesting. Found scraped and unscraped cassia in one bag of Yekta cassia (China) and not in another (Yekta, Iran). Lack of uniformity in many bags of cassia. Size (length) and thickness. Fudco brand was (usually) the most uniform I have come across, but no longer available at Sainsbury's.
Pressure cooking various cassia testers (within/between brands) gives stocks that differ in colour and taste/sweetness. However, colour is not necessarily an index of concentration. Taste testing also inconclusive (senses are swamped too quickly). The stock should be sweet though, enough to sweeten the batch of gravy, noticeably. Onion sweetness (lack of it) unimportant for the gravy. The 1 h veg boil will not melt the onions. Yet, the finished balti should be nectar sweet.
Solutions (more like ideas to reduce the likelihood of a negative outcome)
Some of this also already mentioned by Mick. For example, cassia thickness, increasing cassia amount used in the recipe. This is how I will do it until someone tells me otherwise.
If practical, don't buy cassia online. Use a large supermarket that stocks more than one brand and examine as many bags as you can before buying. Ignore what it is says on the label. Select the thickest and largest (length and width) bark you can find, unscraped. Also look for uniformity, semi circular appearance, outer coarseness etc. The rougher the better. Avoid bags full of small or tiny bits of cassia.
Consider increasing the amount of cassia to make the stock. Potentially the best fail-safe if experiencing problems. For the most recent batch (last week) the cassia I had was on the thin side. Upped the amount (110 g). I firstly put it all in a heavy plastic bag and gave it a good bashing (heavy rubber mallet). Also cut/broke up the other spices where possible. You could try doing this with a large mortar and pestle, but I think you will create a lot of dust. I was able to make this particular stock in a pressure cooker, with 1 pint of water as usual, and with very little reduction. A standard simmer/boil may need more water. This latest batch of MKI base is spot on. Finally, for now, the oil in this base needs to separate for the balti. This is an important part of it. The base is heavily spiced. It all comes together in the seasoned oil, which will also season the additional oil (and anything else) added at the pan cook stage. Mick's Birmingham balti. The ultimate BIR curry, when you get it right. I promise you.
Rob
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A few photos of the weekends MDB MKI base and pre-cooked chicken prep'.
Veg
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/d0dfb5989b7059b924e3cd691844b49e.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#d0dfb5989b7059b924e3cd691844b49e.jpg)
Akhni stock
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/8a7d175458a45f9fb0c8bfa8adb00b1e.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#8a7d175458a45f9fb0c8bfa8adb00b1e.jpg)
Spice mix
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/20584fb2db6435ac000dbb2f6620ed30.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#20584fb2db6435ac000dbb2f6620ed30.jpg)
1 kg pre-cooked chicken. Relatively cheap frozen breast. Cooked in a chicken wing stock/oil with mild basaar masala, and salt.
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/504fba8109d764b989fd9f98b257763d.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#504fba8109d764b989fd9f98b257763d.jpg)
Made a Balti king prawn & chicken last night. 10/10. Balti chicken ginger and a Balti paneer lined up for this evening.
Rob
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Prawn and chicken as 2 separate dishes I hope Bob.
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Prawn and chicken as 2 separate dishes I hope Bob.
Just one livo. Chicken (or chicken tikka) and king prawns are a popular curry combo. You see it available on many a menu hereabouts, including balti. Shababs, for example, do a Balti chicken, king prawn and mushroom.
Rob
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Hmmm? Not a combination I would choose. I do chicken dishes and prawn dishes. I like both but combining the 2 isn't something I've seen.
Chicken and mushroom I understand, but if I wanted to expand the prawn dish, I'd add fish or scallops or both.
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I do chicken dishes and prawn dishes. I like both but combining the 2 isn't something I've seen.
Paella ?
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Paella is not a dish we eat regularly Phil but when we do, we usually have chicken and chorizo paella which is the family preference. On the odd occasion we have had seafood paella it is seafood, ie, prawns, fish, scallops, mussels, squid but not chicken. I'm really the only one in the family who likes it so we don't eat it. Thinking about it, I would say the only thing I can recall ever eating that contained both would be Chinese Special Fried Rice which also has char sui pork.
I won't say there's anything wrong with the combination, but it isn't something I've ever seen over here, and it isn't something I'll rush into.
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Fair enough — for me, a paella needs chicken (ideally thigh, definitely not breast), prawns, mussels and squid as the carnivore/pescivore elements (I am not that keen on chorizo), and I find the combination so good that after discovering paella alla Valenciana I created my own dish : arroz con pollo et con pesce, which included just chicken and smoked haddock. And of course the Americans have their "surf and turf", although the carnivore element of that is beef and not chicken.
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I created my own dish : arroz con pollo et con pesce, which included just chicken and smoked haddock.
Which would actually be arroz con pollo y pez given its Spanish roots. And anyway isn't that just pepped up kedgeree?
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Which would actually be arroz con pollo y pez given its Spanish roots.
Ah yes, I was typing from phonetic memory, and the "y" came out as "et" — I thought it looked odd, but could not think how it should appear. Similarly "pesce" was originally "pescado" but I remembered that part even less well ...
And anyway isn't that just pepped up kedgeree?
Hardly, dear boy — drowned in saffron and garlic, it could not be further removed ...
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Actually Ive just googled it and some places do a mixed balti.
Its not something I have tried
Regards
Mick
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My curiosity is piqued and so I will have to give the Mixed Balti a bash. I have had a prawn curry and a chicken curry (or several) in the same meal and even on the same plate before, but never prepared as a single dish. I see no harm in trying it.
Phil, I have now tried a Paella with seafood and chicken. I prepared one 2 nights ago (Thursday over here) and I must say it was thoroughly enjoyable. The feedback from my daughter was also positive after she took a serving home with her. I had, by coincidence baked a chicken the night before which had "Paella Seasoning" (ie; flavoured rice stuffing and some spice rub) and so I used the leftover from that and added fish (barramundi), and prawns, along with other ingredients, including a chorizo sausage, bacon, onion, multicoloured capsicums, a few peas and olives. I indulged and used half of my saffron. Very nice indeed. My wife was happy as it is a recipe I'd not used before, and it is tomato free. I had to use kalamatas as I had no black olives. I have calamari but forgot to include it. Not to worry. Next time.
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Well done Livo, and I am delighted to hear that not only did you enjoy it but that it was well received by all. I seem to recall that in the authentic Valencian version tomatoes (pomodori pelati a pezzi) are regarded as an essential part of the dish, but I for one can see no reason why they cannot be omitted if desired.
--
** Phil.
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Actually Ive just googled it and some places do a mixed balti.
Its not something I have tried
What? I thought you were a balti connoisseur. It's well known that with balti anything goes, quite literally, as you can (or at least could), mix and match to your heart's content. And that's coming from someone who's never had a real balti despite my Brummie origins. So if I know this how come you don't?
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Lol very funny SS
I have neither the time or the crayons to bother trying to argue with you
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Lol very funny SS
I have neither the time or the crayons to bother trying to argue with you
It was a serious question, but, whatever.
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Made a batch of base yesterday. Balti chicken ultra-dry last night. Fresh chicken. Addition, 1/2 tsp salt. Taste-tested and popped in the fridge. Ultra-lush! Photo taken this morning. Will warm it up tonight and serve with boiled rice.
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/302d915564b36decb393589402b6a95b.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#302d915564b36decb393589402b6a95b.jpg)
Rob
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It’s the gift that keeps on giving….
I love seeing pics of curry first thing Sunday morning..
Robbo
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Balti lamb and mushroom.
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/5ddf7e2e1f758281083ab63e5e354c2b.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#5ddf7e2e1f758281083ab63e5e354c2b.jpg)
Rob :smile:
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Arrived yesterday. 10 ml. Was curious to see if the aroma is similar to the Cassia bark component of Mick's Ackni stock. Identical. Very pungent and sense swamping. Now thinking the stocks I have been making with 60-100 g cassia bark are actually loaded with cassia oil, which is rather interesting. Will report back after playing around with it.
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/f67633d5197313954d124d8270278962.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#f67633d5197313954d124d8270278962.jpg)
Rob
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Wow - thats a great find Rob!
I didnt know that Cassia contains essential oils but logically this must be the answer to all of the inconsistencies with cassia bark
Looking forward with Baited Breath to reading your report!
I bet that stuff isnt cheap....
Kind Regards
Mick
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£4.20 for 10 ml, or was at the time this listing (https://thewildfoodcompany.co.uk/product/cotswold-cassia-oil/) appeared. The one that KB depicted (https://www.amazon.co.uk/100-Pure-Cassia-Essential-100ml/dp/B01MTOY441/) is not food grade (which would not stop me consuming it, but a word to the wise ...).
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Wow - thats a great find Rob!
I didnt know that Cassia contains essential oils but logically this must be the answer to all of the inconsistencies with cassia bark
Looking forward with Baited Breath to reading your report!
I bet that stuff isnt cheap.... :smiling eyes:
Kind Regards
Mick
I think you are right Mick. Reckon it'll work both ways. So, it seems possible I have seriously underestimated the potency of my recent cassia bark purchases (and probably some earlier). An idea is that the cassia may cancel out, or mute, some/all of the other whole spices. I will be making another batch of MK I gravy next week to check this. This time with less cassia.
In the meantime I have made a Balti pork and mushroom (vindaloo) for tonight, in readiness for next week's adventures. This will definitely clear the tubes :) :smiling eyes:
Rob
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£4.20 for 10 ml, or was at the time this listing (https://thewildfoodcompany.co.uk/product/cotswold-cassia-oil/) appeared. The one that KB depicted (https://www.amazon.co.uk/100-Pure-Cassia-Essential-100ml/dp/B01MTOY441/) is not food grade (which would not stop me consuming it, but a word to the wise ...).
I think the only practical use Phil will be to identify the aroma of an actual sample of "pure" cassia oil. Not suggesting it could be used to make a curry. Was just interested to see what it smells like, so I might know what to look for when making the stock. One sniff was enough. One or two pennies sort of dropped and I have some ideas. I may be talking absolute rot though, so will report back when/if there are any useful findings.
The product itself is marketed for use in aromatherapy, diffusers etc. Apparently, according to the instructions, 5-6 drops is adequate when added to a bath tub. Reckon I will probably give this a miss.
Rob
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Last night's Balti pork and mushroom (vindaloo)
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/5efd9b682be2bb4776654169ee8309fe.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#5efd9b682be2bb4776654169ee8309fe.jpg)
Rob
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Balti pork (vindaloo). Different. Stunning and sophisticated.
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/1d0fe67955168f481d2046a6f2be6dc8.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#1d0fe67955168f481d2046a6f2be6dc8.jpg)
Rob
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Found a 2016 video of the chef at Al Frash making a balti (lamb). The usual demo style; balti dish cook, but very interesting. Lots to see. I can't seem to find a direct link for it. Google "How to make a quick restaurant style balti". Make sure you view the results of the search in "Images". Now look for a BirminghamLive photo of a chef proudly displaying his balti, and click on it.
Rob
If anyone does know how to get a direct link please do post it.
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Hi Rob
Good Find!
I copied the link directly off the Birmingham Mail page which is:
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/whats-on/food-drink-news/how-to-make-a-balti-11448351
Regards
Mick
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I see there's a large pan of base sauce on the stove but I don't think he uses any. Is this credible for cooking a balti? Perhaps it is, and maybe it's a reason why I found the Shababs balti interesting the first couple of times I tried it. More like, swimming in oil.
There's no way I believe any balti house would prepare dishes in a small bowl. It would be too inconvenient and slow everything down.
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Hi Rob
Good Find!
I copied the link directly off the Birmingham Mail page which is:
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/whats-on/food-drink-news/how-to-make-a-balti-11448351
Regards
Mick
Thanks Mick. Still getting the hang of my BlackView Tab 9 gadget. Have realised it's just a fancy phone and things like links are hidden, presumably to make space for more advertisements. :)
Rob
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I see there's a large pan of base sauce on the stove but I don't think he uses any. Is this credible for cooking a balti? Perhaps it is, and maybe it's a reason why I found the Shababs balti interesting the first couple of times I tried it. More like, swimming in oil.
There's no way I believe any balti house would prepare dishes in a small bowl. It would be too inconvenient and slow everything down.
There's been quite a bit of editing George and the video does date back to when most balti houses were not saying/showing a lot. Although, that is indeed a fine looking pan of MDB MKI base on the hob, next to an equally impressive pot of dark oil. My guess would be that some of the base will have gone into the dish. The balti houses usually have/had at least one desi lamb karahi ( a very dry curry) on their menu, along with the baltis. Expect the pre-cook for both would be very similar, but with added base when making the balti. I keep rewatching the video. Is that a container full of pre-cooked chicken, near the chopped onions?
Yes, the traditional micro fibre square cloth balti method. I have bought a couple of stainless steel kadai pans. Judge brand. Been using them for about 6 weeks. Will post a short review of them tomorrow. Sort of a big balti dish.
With plastic handles, although this was not the reason for me getting them. I have discovered yet another 10/10 balti house, but in this one can actually see the chef in the back making the dish. He uses a big old standard aluminium pan, with a wooden handle. It's fairly deep and seriously caved in on the underside. With this modification (it's not got this way by itself) he is able to wedge/tilt the pan on the hob grates at about 45 degrees. This, in effect, makes the pan even deeper, at the front. He does this after all the main ingredients have been mixed in. There is no showboating with flames here.
Thought to give it a go myself, but figured setting about a pan with a lump hammer may not end well. So went with the kadai pans. Deeper than my usual stainless frying pan and with much thinner sides. To allow tilt on the hob I just use a large bulldog clip on the grate. Very stable with the smaller kadhi. I think two clips would be advisable for the larger (24 cm) one. Dishes come out the same, but the reduction is much faster. Just my thoughts. Next must see if there is an empty Utterly Butterly pot knocking about in one of my cupboards. Proper BIR style :)
Rob
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Done a search ref Al frash balti, and unearthed the following, He claims it is the closest to the Al frash balti that you'll find on the web.
https://youtu.be/Oqni0eorRFY?si=w95qR5yPFQ8wK0dl
https://youtu.be/iXtsP0LeKuE?si=RWzuA0hTrNSs-3_K
Regards pap rika
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Done a search ref Al frash balti, and unearthed the following, He claims it is the closest to the Al frash balti that you'll find on the web.
https://youtu.be/Oqni0eorRFY?si=w95qR5yPFQ8wK0dl
https://youtu.be/iXtsP0LeKuE?si=RWzuA0hTrNSs-3_K
Regards pap rika
It's Mick's recipes pretty much word-for-word. So yes, "best on strip". I wonder who made/endorsed the video. I am now suffering from stick-blender envy.
Rob
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Balti King visited this forum and made videos for Balti Gravy and Balti dish based 100% on MDB's Al Frash clone recipe. Unless he is MDB, it is pure plagiarism. The ingredient list and instructions are a direct clip and paste from the OP of this thread. Only bit missing is MDB's note about using 1" pieces of cassia.
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Recall when I made the base for the first time thought a video would be good, as it's an obvious game-changer and unscrupulous types might want to claim it as their own. I hope they are Mick's videos. Watched them through again and reckon they are actually very good. Was sure their were some comments on my first view, but I must have been seeing things. Anyway, good to see you back livo. All the best for 2024!
Rob
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Is this you Bob? Aphrodisiac Balti. Might have to bash one of these out.
https://youtu.be/6tpF2aDv9Uc?si=2yy9ylBFip7qyO0c (https://youtu.be/6tpF2aDv9Uc?si=2yy9ylBFip7qyO0c)
He also does Shababs Baltis. Not many views and I'd never seen this channel before.