Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: moezus on July 05, 2010, 01:31 AM
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Hi,
Came across a book called: "Undercover Curry: An Insider's Expose of British Indian Restaurant Cookery"
It was only published in march 2010. Had a look at the website for the book to get more information. Appears as though the author has gone and worked in some BIR and taken as many notes as possible and written the book. Anyone heard of this book or tried the recipes within it?
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Had a look at the website for the book to get more information.
Which website, please?
This one? http://www.undercovercurry.com/id2.html (http://www.undercovercurry.com/id2.html)
Here's a link to the book on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Undercover-Curry-Insiders-British-Restaurant/dp/0956525709 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Undercover-Curry-Insiders-British-Restaurant/dp/0956525709)
Another bit of a breakthrough or the latest publication where results don't quite match the claims?
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Well for ?8 its got to be worth a try....
Even if there is only a nugget or two of gold it will be worth it.
Ordering now!
Cheers
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It looks like a good find. I'm tempted to order too. No doubt we will already know 95% of it but as Solar said, there might be an extra nugget or two in there.
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I've just ordered a copy and emailed the author to see if he wants to join the forum. If he is as dedicated to curry cooking as his website states hopefully he will become an active member here. It would be great to hear his thoughts on some of our recipes and techniques.
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I've just ordered a copy and emailed the author to see if he wants to join the forum. If he is as dedicated to curry cooking as his website states hopefully he will become an active member here. It would be great to hear his thoughts on some of our recipes and techniques.
Maybe the OP could tell you more? ;)
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Have ordered a copy too, be interesting to see how it goes :)
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I think Ill also adding this to my collection.
Solarspice, you say 8 quid, but to me it reads 13 quid? or have I missed something?
Ray :)
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I think Ill also adding this to my collection.
Solarspice, you say 8 quid, but to me it reads 13 quid? or have I missed something?
You must have missed my link to Amazon (above) where I ordered it for under 8 pounds this morning. Mind you, that may not include his DVD, whereas the 13 quid version probably does.
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Oh I see,
No i didn't click on the link George, thanks for that, I'll check it out mate.
Ray :)
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Interesting quote from the books contents.
"You?ll see others you?re quite familiar with, such as tomato puree, but don?t be fooled ? in British Indian restaurants, ?tomato puree? is much more than just tomato puree."
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Here's another quote:
"to our certain knowledge, no-one has ever before put down in print the actual ingredients the British Indian restaurants use to make the gravy, the sauce, much less pass on the cooking process."
I have high hopes and look forward to receiving the book. Whilst the above comment may apply to books by Pat Chapman and Kris Dhillon, I'm not sure it applies to the Authentic Balti cookbook and recipes on this website. Time will tell. If the author is the genuine article, he deserves to do well.
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I've had a few emails back from him today and he is quite keen to join the forum. Only time will tell. I suggested he puts a Chicken Tikka recipe forwards for the upcoming group test!
He said he will join up as soon as he has some free time.
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It's hard not to get the hopes up too high.
Wish I chose next day delivery rather than the free (slow) one now :(
But, seriously, how much free time does it take to join a forum? - Hope he does though!
Cheers
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I'm in Australia and ordering from the Amazon UK as no one has the book here. I think I'll be waiting a while before I get my hands on it. Just reading the table of contents on the author's web site gets me keen to start cooking.
Until I found this site I had no idea that traditional indian curry is something completely different to BIR curry which explains why all the cookbooks i've bought have recipes which are nothing like what I get at a restaurant.
Been reading for a while and will be trying the SnS base and madras this weekend to tide me over until the book arrives. Pretty excited about my first attempt at a BIR curry. Had one question though, If I am cooking for 5 people do I still have to make the final curry in individual portions or is it safe to just keep adding base until I think I have enough gravy for 5 portions in one pot?
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sorry to sound sceptical guys, but i doubt we will learn much from this publication.
Hope I'm proved wrong tho
mick
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Had one question though, If I am cooking for 5 people do I still have to make the final curry in individual portions or is it safe to just keep adding base until I think I have enough gravy for 5 portions in one pot?
Hi
I personally always make CA's Madras or Vindaloo in a double portion - just 2x everything with approx 600ml of base together in one pan.
If you do this with some rice, naan and some side dishes such as aaag aoo and some bhajees you will easily have enough for 5 people. It is critical though that you observe all the usual cooking techniques that are discussed on the site though.
cheers
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anyone actually got this book yet ?
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I'm in Australia and ordering from the Amazon UK as no one has the book here. I think I'll be waiting a while before I get my hands on it. Just reading the table of contents on the author's web site gets me keen to start cooking.
Until I found this site I had no idea that traditional indian curry is something completely different to BIR curry which explains why all the cookbooks i've bought have recipes which are nothing like what I get at a restaurant.
Been reading for a while and will be trying the SnS base and madras this weekend to tide me over until the book arrives. Pretty excited about my first attempt at a BIR curry. Had one question though, If I am cooking for 5 people do I still have to make the final curry in individual portions or is it safe to just keep adding base until I think I have enough gravy for 5 portions in one pot?
I would make 5 individual Curry's and store in takeaway containers , as it's your first attempt if you mess up ( burn the Garlic / Ginger or Spices ) you will only have to throw away one portion ;)
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I would make 5 individual Curry's and store in takeaway containers , as it's your first attempt if you mess up ( burn the Garlic / Ginger or Spices ) you will only have to throw away one portion ;)
Very, very good idea indeed! - why did I not think of that?
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have ordered one this morning will report on reciept
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Got it through the post this morning,it certainly is an interesting read.The guy has definitely saw the workings of a BIR kitchen.From what I've read so far no magical ingredients or techniques.He does however stress the need for using reused oil(from onion bhaji cooking etc) when making the base sauce(again no other magical ingredients).This is says is the key to achieving 'that' special taste....I'll keep on reading
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Does he give the recipe for the bhajis?
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I don't think anyone expected this to be a eureka moment, I'm hoping it will confirm some of what we know and hopefully lay out the process in an easy to follow process that we can all recreate.
Does he have a chicken tikka recipe in there? We could add it to the group test. I'm also looking forward to seeing his Onion Bhaji recipe and method to see how it compares to IG.
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Does he give the recipe for the bhajis?
Yes, there's a recipe for onion bhajis but I don't think it's fair on the author for me or anyone else to write out the recipe for that or anything else here. Shame on any copyright criminals who do. It's only 8 pounds to purchase from Amazon, including shipping.
The book looks good and is definitely focussed 90%+ on BIR stuff, unlike New Curry Secret which may be under 30% in that regard. I'm grateful for what it covers rather than some apparent glaring omissions. It includes dhansak, mixed vegetable curry, sag aloo, pilau rice and many other dishes which I'm most interested in. The recipe for peshwari naan filling looks more promising than any other recipe I've seen, and there are some other new twists on various dishes, too.
But how could he leave out CTM, korma and biryani for a start? Unforgiveable, really. Perhaps there's already a follow-up book envisaged.
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Yay! - book just arrived!
Does he give the recipe for the bhajis?
Yes, the book gives the recipe, as standard makes 150 bhajis - but there are instructions on how to scale down.
Have only had a brief skim read so far, my initial reaction is one of fairly significant excitement! and do not feel for one instant that the purchase has been a waste of money.
Mostly all the favorite recipes are in there, along with many pages explaining the why's and the how's in considerable detail.
Well - need to make some more base this weekend - so shall be making this one and reporting back here hopefully with some good news. Will defo need to scale down the bhajis though 150 is too many even for me ;)
There seem to be many many helpful tips, plus a couple of opposites of what is generally considered to be the correct way to do things as discussed on this site - a little something to do with the gravy. Not sure if I will get done for copyright mentioning it here? any thoughts? - We don't want to p*ss this guy off if he is going to hopefully register on this site!
Overall, I think you would not be wasting your money adding this book to your personal collections.
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Actually there is a recipe for CTM on page 152 at the end,not sure about one certain ingredient though!!! I guess the proof will be in the eating!!1
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I agree that printing the recipes would be unfair and probably in breach of copyright, but I can't see any problem in discussing some of the talking points. My book has arrived but I'm at work so will have to wait until I get home to read it. What is this strange addition to the CTM recipe? What is the controversial point on the gravy?
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Actually there is a recipe for CTM on page 152 at the end,not sure about one certain ingredient though!!! I guess the proof will be in the eating!!1
Thanks! Talk about well hidden. It's not included in the contents and is in an 'addendum'!
There's also an outline of how to make biryani - also well hidden.
Now all I need is to find his take on korma.
I agree that printing the recipes would be unfair and probably in breach of copyright, but I can't see any problem in discussing some of the talking points.
I agree. For example, I'm happy to say he uses pineapple juice and chunks rather than any lemon in Dhansak.
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Hi
OK then, I found it interesting that he explicitly states and goes into detail why you should never skim the 'scum' off the base during to cooking process.
Not an 'earth-shatterer' by any means, but something to think about....
cheers
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Hi
Sorry to double post, but has anyone else that has this book noticed that the base gravy recipe has been specified with really no precise measurements?
Basically there is a recipe for a large quantity with an 18 ltr pan filled 3/4 full of onions.
Then there is a small quantity recipe for a 2 ltr pan filled 3/4 full of onions, with some of the other ingredients quartered down and some halved. So that the reduction is not in proportion with the reduction of the onion and not linear across the board. Also coriander is mentioned in the small portion and not the large, but no mention of quantity?
He goes on to explain that things are mostly judged by eye in the BIR kitchen, but surely we need something a little more precise to begin with at least?
This all seems a little tedious to me as it means much thought and calculation will be needed to rescale his 18 ltr stock pot to my 11 ltr one :(
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Or you need a bigger pot...
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Or you need a bigger pot...
Yeah, and an extra freezer to store it all in.
Then there is a small quantity recipe for a 2 ltr pan filled 3/4 full of onions, with some of the other ingredients quartered down and some halved. So that the reduction is not in proportion with the reduction of the onion and not linear across the board. Also coriander is mentioned in the small portion and not the large, but no mention of quantity?
Even though it is not a consistent reduction across all ingredients, I wouldn't say that necessarily sounds wrong. Probably best to just give it a go - I would probably make it to the letter the first time then look to make adjustments thereafter.
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He goes on to explain that things are mostly judged by eye in the BIR kitchen, but surely we need something a little more precise to begin with at least?
I agree. With his pilau rice 'recipe' for example, he says to add 'your flavourings...you could try cloves' (and a list of typical spices follows). And that's it...there's no indication of what his restaurants added or his favourite mix, quantities or anything. This is very disappointing. A key aspect of a good pilau rice is the flavour and you'd expect the spice quantities to be included in the recipe.
There's definitely enough 'new' stuff to try but anyone can write convincing text. For me, the jury is out on whether this is yet another scam or whether he really does know his stuff and has chosen to hold back quite a bit.
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The one thing that worries me about said books is that, well... The person purportedly worked for 3 years in Indian restaurants and doesn't have a set base sauce recipe? :-\
I don't know which is worse? Someone who is not Indian telling you they know everything, or a true Indian chef defiantly not telling you what the real recipe is? ;)
It seems in either case ;D That we'll never know ;D
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///////// On other matters. I finally got some tomato powder. I know it goes in a couple of dishes, I'll make my own in future, the aroma is that of the Vindaloo that I get here albeit without other spice aromas.
Let you know once I've played with it a bit.
Cheers.
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Just had a look at the author's website, and it seems that the style of language used has more than just a passing resemblance to this site. Makes me wonder if he hasn't been a member of cr0. After all, where did the term 'BIR' originate? Anyone else noticed this?
D.
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Just had a look at the author's website, and it seems that the style of language used has more than just a passing resemblance to this site. Makes me wonder if he hasn't been a member of cr0. After all, where did the term 'BIR' originate? Anyone else noticed this?
D.
Yes, I noticed aspects which could have been lifted from here and turned into neat prose by the co-author. A good example is the recovery oil from the base sauce, which he mentions. I simply don't know. Either the guy is genuine, really did work in numerous BIRs and the book is an honest account, with quite a few gaps, or it's just a well written fabrication.
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hi guys just my twopeneth 11ltr pot just fill it 3/4 full of onions lol, regards the authenticty of the author pat chapman has been feed us crap for years and he's knwon as the curry king( no offence CK) book after book promising the world and getting a pea! oh and PC uses pinneapple in his dhansak. omg he's poached from here PC and another not so well known site lol!
with regards to the scum skimming it makes total sense ( i do remove it but then again i follow mouchaks recipe not posted, and it to release the oil to the surface of the base sauce) but if you smell it you get that waft of mildly sweet cooked onions lightly spiced, omg EUREKA i've found it lol ;D.
regards
gary ;)
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My copy came today and I think an excellent read , very recently in another post the amount of Onions spotted in a container at a Restaurant was far more than any Base recipe I have tried or seen in this Forum and the book recipe states 3/4 of ( well any ) container of Onions :o plus the usual other ingredients we mostly all use on the Forum .
This is a massive amount of Onions which I will be trying when my present batch runs out plus the use of reclaimed oil being important to the flavour of the Base , this has been mentioned previously on the Forum but how many follow it up :-X
I have only read just past the Base Gravy recipe but I do like the way this has been written , confirming things like ' no actual measurements ' when making Curry's , how often have you seen a BIR Chef put Spices in using a teaspoon :)
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The person purportedly worked for 3 years in Indian restaurants and doesn't have a set base sauce recipe? :-\
My memory is a bit vague because it was a while ago but didn't Andy, who went off to form the other curry website, also claim to have worked in a BIR for three years? ???
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It?s the genuine secrets - there are no half truths and nothing is held back. For example, to our certain knowledge, no-one has ever before put down in print the actual ingredients the British Indian restaurants use to make the gravy, the sauce
It's just as well I was using my digital bullshit meter on this quote. If I'd been using my old analog one its needle would be wrapped around the end stop! ::)
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plus the use of reclaimed oil being important to the flavour of the Base , this has been mentioned previously on the Forum but how many follow it up
I mentioned the use of used bhaji frying oil over a year ago and do this regularly,
I get the oil from my local restaurant after they have fried over 100 bhajis in it, 5 or 6 at a time,
Mick
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My copy came today and I think an excellent read
I agree it's well written and is a 'good read' but so are many books of fiction. I didn't buy it to read like a novel but for what sounded like breakthrough recipes. As with Pat Chapman and Kris Dhillon the book's objectives are as clear as crystal on the cover. Then things go downhill rapidly.
With the 'Undercover' book, it starts off explaining how the author and co-writer met and what led to the 'undercover' work. It's interesting and they also make the point that the book is more about techniques than ingredients. Surely, we need both. On page 6 they say "There are some excellent books around giving accurate information on, and insights into, Indian cooking. It's just that - unlike this book - they don't specifically address the unique flavours and methods of traditional British Indian restaurant cuisine."
I thought I might start with an attempt at Tarka Dhal, not least because they say it's an 'iconic dish' immediately associated with BIR cuisine. "It is considered to have the legendary BIR flavour." cr0 should have taken out a patent on the term "BIR". So flavour has been mentioned at least twice now. So far, so good but when you get to the recipe, they say you add dried whole spices to the Tarka to infuse their flavours ino the oil. But they don't suggest the best spices to use, let alone give an indication of quantities. If we're after the 'unique' flavour, how can that make sense?
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Sounds like this book is a mixed bag. Imprecise ingredients and quantities is completely unhelpful.
Don't think I will shell out for it, let alone whatever the shipping is going to be to Canada.
To those who did buy it, anything that stands out for any individual recipes or techniques?
Is there a tikka recipe worth adding to the Recipe of the Month?
-- Josh
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I mentioned the use of used bhaji frying oil over a year ago and do this regularly,
I get the oil from my local restaurant after they have fried over 100 bhajis in it, 5 or 6 at a time,
Mick - do you think this spiced oil could be replicated at home? I'd figure a scaled down oil pot (few litres) and cook say 25 bhajis would infuse the oil similarly to cooking 100 bhajis in a commercial sized fryer?
I've tried a few spiced oil concoctions, skimmed curry oil, bunjarra oil, etc. but never anything as simple as "bhaji oil".
-- Josh
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Sounds like this book is a mixed bag. Imprecise ingredients and quantities is completely unhelpful. To those who did buy it, anything that stands out for any individual recipes or techniques? Is there a tikka recipe worth adding to the Recipe of the Month?
One thing which stands out is the use of very unusual key ingredients in at least two fundamental dishes - a bit like using chocolate in chilli con carne. He implies that all/many/most BIRs use these ingredients but I've never seen them mentioned before, so it seems unlikely. It's more likely it's just a good spin to make the recipes look new and distinctive - to help make people feel it's worth buying the book, in an act of desperation. If these (partial, imprecise) recipes produce good results, I'll take back my doubts. There's another of my pet hates - recipe options. How can these be needed if you really know the best recipe?
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The person purportedly worked for 3 years in Indian restaurants and doesn't have a set base sauce recipe? :-\
My memory is a bit vague because it was a while ago but didn't Andy, who went off to form the other curry website, also claim to have worked in a BIR for three years? ???
Thought 'Andy' used to claim 10 years experience, or was that another Andy with a book to flog?
Cheers
CoR
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Hi
Well, I guess we could go on for a long time remaining doubtful and dubious about this book, author and content.
The proof as they say, is in the pudding (curry) - I for one shall be making the bhaji's, base and a vindaloo exactly to the books spec (well as best as I can ascertain from the precise specs ;) ) this weekend and will report back...
There are some spices in the bhajis and base, that I have not used before, namely ajawain & asafoetida, plus several other things that are all similar, but slightly different to the ways I personally do things, so it will be a hopefully exciting experiment!
cheers
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I mentioned the use of used bhaji frying oil over a year ago and do this regularly,
Mick, I've been using reclaimed oil since before this forum existed and it's been mentioned on this forum not long after it started some six years ago, so it's not a new idea.
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they say it's an 'iconic dish' immediately associated with BIR cuisine.
Is it? Really?
I must have missed the point of BIR then because I've never had tarka dall at a BIR and neither have any of my friends.
Tell you what is iconic though, CTM. Does this truly iconic dish have fruit cocktail in it in your experience? No, mine neither, but apparently it's a requirement in their recipe. Laugh! ;D
I reckon they went so far undercover that they ended up in a 70's bistro and not a BIR at all! ::)
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So what is the latest take on this book then :P
On reading here, it just gets better. ;D
Good way to make cash however, creating a book, but once people had twigged its not real, reputations can fail.
I won't buy it there are several recipes here that I need yet to try. So soon on those, and there are some tremendous cooks on here too.
I do like the book cover however :P
Have a great day everyone.
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How does one go about getting a book published? 8)
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My copy has finally arrived and is waiting at home for me to read. I'll have a good read through it and share my thoughts.
I agree with Solar that it's worth trying a few recipes before passing judgement. Hopefully we'll all learn a little something from it.
Getting a book published is easy, getting people to buy it is the hard part!
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It's just as well I was using my digital bullshit meter on this quote. If I'd been using my old analog one its needle would be wrapped around the end stop! ::)
Lmao ;D
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Until some of the recipes have been tried we can't really condemn the book but some of the comments on this topic and from the author's site and blog, leave me to think that the book is just another trying to cash in on people's want to learn the art of BIR cooking.
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sooooooo....
what about the tomato puree..? isnt that,according to the site,supposed to contain something more than tomato puree???
i am fairly convinced though that,as the author,Mick,Haldi and few lucky others who have been able to get their hands on seriously bhajii "infused" oil (though i presonally reckon it is probably just the cooking batter which does this) the final icing non the cake for that BIR taste is down to highly used oil...though i have no way,inclination of finding out :-\
Is that pretty much the consensus then on this book...?
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How does one go about getting a book published? 8)
It's quite easy to self publish, Axe...pricing depends upon number of pages/quantity and size of books but you can do it for a few quid including cover and bindings ;)
Until some of the recipes have been tried we can't really condemn the book but some of the comments on this topic and from the author's site and blog, leave me to think that the book is just another trying to cash in on people's want to learn the art of BIR cooking.
Indeed. The comments in this thread regarding this book do not make me inclined to part with my money - in fact I'd go as far as to say that anyone having read through this forum could well publish their own book especially if we're not tied to actually putting precise recipes in print!
I'm awaiting the results of those undercover curry recipes though...if anyone figures them out, that is lol
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I have not made a Base Sauce with anywhere near the amount of Onions stated in the Base Gravy recipe neither have I seen a recipe with so many Onions or using reclaimed oil in the Base ( perhaps there is one but I've missed it ) as we often say we are only looking for that final 5% and if the Onions and oil is that 5% that's worth ?8 of my money any day.
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This is like watching Raiders of the Lost Ark and trying to find that missing artifact on life's solution to the BIR!!!!! LOL :)
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I mentioned the use of used bhaji frying oil over a year ago and do this regularly,
I get the oil from my local restaurant after they have fried over 100 bhajis in it, 5 or 6 at a time,
Mick - do you think this spiced oil could be replicated at home? I'd figure a scaled down oil pot (few litres) and cook say 25 bhajis would infuse the oil similarly to cooking 100 bhajis in a commercial sized fryer?
I've tried a few spiced oil concoctions, skimmed curry oil, bunjarra oil, etc. but never anything as simple as "bhaji oil".
-- Josh
Hi Josh,
I have tried replicating it at home simply by putting some gram flour, mix powder and chopped onions into a litre of oil and frying it gently for some time until the oil darkens considerably, which is the ingredients burning, this is done over a relatively low heat, it does produce a flavoured oil which I have filtered and use in the base,
It is a bit of work and doesn't give the same flavour as oil from my local restaurant,
But I think it is an improvement over new veg oil,
However, as I say, I can get some of the bhaji oil locally, they do not use commercial fryers to cook their bhajis but a wok holding a couple of litres of oil, they will cook off over a hundred bhajis in this by which time the oil is quite dark and the last bhajis take longer to cook than the first ones in, as the oil looses its effectiveness,
Cheers,
Mick
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I mentioned the use of used bhaji frying oil over a year ago and do this regularly,
Mick, I've been using reclaimed oil since before this forum existed and it's been mentioned on this forum not long after it started some six years ago, so it's not a new idea.
SS,
Thanks for this,
I only said I mentioned it on here a year ago, I didn't say that was the length of time I had been using it,
I also know its not a new idea having seen it used in a couple of kitchens years ago, not so much recently though,
SS, when you say "reclaimed oil" are you referring to reclaimed oil from base making or what i would call "burned bhaji oil"?
Mick
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I really like the look of the base recipe. It includes most of what we know to be true about restaurant bases but includes a few new ideas. I also like the huge amount of onions involved and the fact its cooked in a litre of reused oil with only a couple of cups of water. I've never been convinced that a good base can be achieved by filling the pan with water until everything is covered. Fried food always tastes better than boiled!
The spices are pretty hardcore too. I've never seen any recipe use more than a pinch of Asafoetida!
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Hi
So, anyone else planning to make the base in the near future?
I have 3Kg's of onions all ready to make it tomorrow!
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I really like the look of the base recipe. It includes most of what we know to be true about restaurant bases but includes a few new ideas. I also like the huge amount of onions involved and the fact its cooked in a litre of reused oil
Why do you like the idea of using an industrial quantity of onions? The cost alone must be a downside, unless you're running a restaurant. The quantity of onions can't have anything to do with the final flavour, as long as all the other ingredients are balanced pro-rata. If his 'special' ingredients and spice mix lead to a great flavour, then fine, but I can't see that the quantity of onions is a factor.
I have some further, serious criticisms and doubts about the book lined up but I'm going to hold off until some reports come in on what a few of these recipes taste like, and I've tried one or two.
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I really like the look of the base recipe. It includes most of what we know to be true about restaurant bases but includes a few new ideas. I also like the huge amount of onions involved and the fact its cooked in a litre of reused oil
Why do you like the idea of using an industrial quantity of onions? The cost alone must be a downside, unless you're running a restaurant. The quantity of onions can't have anything to do with the final flavour, as long as all the other ingredients are balanced pro-rata. If his 'special' ingredients and spice mix lead to a great flavour, then fine, but I can't see that the quantity of onions is a factor.
I have some further, serious criticisms and doubts about the book lined up but I'm going to hold off until some reports come in on what a few of these recipes taste like, and I've tried one or two.
George , I read a recent post on here which said a view into a restaurants kitchen showed their Base Gravy container overflowing with Onions :o surely if they weren't needed they wouldn't use them :-\
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George , I read a recent post on here which said a view into a restaurants kitchen showed their Base Gravy container overflowing with Onions :o surely if they weren't needed they wouldn't use them :-\
Of course they are needed by a restaurant, if they expect 100+ diners sitting down in the next few hours.
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SS, when you say "reclaimed oil" are you referring to reclaimed oil from base making or what i would call "burned bhaji oil"?
Mick
Well I've tried it all ways. The most promising for me was the 'burned bhaji oil' just based on the smell of it. However, when I used this as the oil for making the base it lost all of its potency and I gave up using it after that.
I used to use reclaimed oil from the base to start the curries with but I now use reclaimed oil from each curry to start the next one.
The biggest issue seems, at least in my experience, to be that whatever spiced oil is used, if it's used in the base it loses its potency.
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The quantity of onions can't have anything to do with the final flavour, as long as all the other ingredients are balanced pro-rata.
I don't know so much George, from what I have experienced so far bulk cooking can and will have an affect on the finished product. How much of an affect is where I think the question lies. I certainly wouldn't make up a quantity of base similar to a BIR, I wouldn't be able to store it or use it enough to warrant this.
Despite the argy bhaji of base recipes etc, I still think we're pretty close. I ordered a meal for the wife and I from our local decent TA (not IG) which contained Lamb Do Piaza Mushroom Rice, bhaji's, pakora, Prawn Puri and a bread and I have to say that apart from the Naan the rest of the meal was no better than my best efforts using recipes from this site.
So this book is going to have to go some to make impression for me on the BIR front. Does it mention what restaurants were used for the undercover recipes. I'd certainly like to know if they are the modern style BIR or old school restaurants.
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As a side note on the volume of onions mentioned frequently surrounding this new book.
I know its not BIR, but most dishes requiring sauce in traditional cooking use a fair amount of onions per dish, in fact its surprising really.
I'm also really interested now in the Bahji oil. I think I've said on here a couple of times. If my Main meal were as good as they are, I'd be really happy. They have a pizazz about them, that other element that I think is the missing factor between my main cooking and the food from a restaurant.
I wouldn't even have a clue how to incorporate them other than drop them in the base and let them get happy perhaps?
Very interesting.
Thank you.
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Does it mention what restaurants were used for the undercover recipes. I'd certainly like to know if they are the modern style BIR or old school restaurants.
He mentions that the first place where he went 'undercover' was the largest Indian restaurant in Aberdeen at that time. I don't think there are any other clues but he speaks as if he's been inside dozens/hundreds of BIR kitchens which seems unlikely unless you're Pat Chapman, perhaps. Anyway, all of this information is in the introduction and seems to be quickly dropped when you get to the actual recipes. In terms of recipe options and introductions, you'd think he'd say something like his favourite tastes for a specific dish were between two of the restaurants where he worked, and where one used spice X and one used spice Y. But there are no comments like that, which doesn't fill with me with confidence that the opening text ('undercover') is anything more than a fairy tale. He makes blanket claims like all/most BIRs do this, that or the other as if he's some all-seeing, all-knowing individual.
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How much of the day-to-day start to finish prepping does a delivery driver actually see?
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It all seems very vague to me, we'll just have to see how the recipes fair. But without proper lists of ingredients or measurements, it's going to be a bit hit and miss.
I must admit Domi, I had thought a similar thing. No doubt a delivery driver would pick up quit a bit, but surely would lack certain points, quantities and ingredients.....that's odd, i've just got the sudden feeling of Deja Vu.
Seriously though, I hope there are things i the book that we can learn from. Surely he would have picked up something that perhaps we have missed assuming the book is not a work of fiction.
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He apparently started as a delivery man then moved into the kitchen as a prepper. Chopping onions, making up the sauces e.t.c.
I like the book from what I have read so far. The tikka massala recipe is an absolute joke though, thrown in on the last page as an afterthought and a note from the auther saying he doesn't think it should be in there even though he realizes it is the most ordered dish in the UK!
His Bhaji method doesn't look good to me as he advises adding salt for half an hour to draw out the moisture and make the onions rubbery. I couldn't disagree more with that statement but I do get the feeling that that is how some BIR's do it. the cooking method of very low heat for 12 minutes is in the right ballpark.
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Hi
Well, made the base and a monster portion of it too!
Used it already to pre-cook some chicken and some potatoes for tonights Vindaloo. Will report back with pictures and weights and measures that I used for the base in case anyone is interested or would like to compare notes etc.
BTW, the base smelt absolutely heavenly when cooking, can't wait to see how tonight's curry will turn out.
Here are some pics:
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/be0aca12b1bb06e1cd2392684590d504.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#be0aca12b1bb06e1cd2392684590d504.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/ae427957012290d7de588527723ca486.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#ae427957012290d7de588527723ca486.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/622334f7ef1ba53a9588ce0585a232e1.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#622334f7ef1ba53a9588ce0585a232e1.jpg)
Cheers
Russell
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Good for you solarsplace ,I'm on holiday at the mo but will be trying the base recipe when I get back . Don't know how you managed it without a teaspoon recipe ::) better tell all the BIR's there doin it wrong ;)
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How did it smell and taste in comparison to other bases (e.g. CA's)?
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I made a 9 litre stockpot full of this base yesterday too but I haven't had a chance to make it into a curry yet. I think the base definitely has more aroma and taste than the other bases I have tried (SNS and CA).
I went out for a curry lunch yesterday (at the Shomraat) and they brought out (amongst other dishes) a Bhuna and a vegetable curry. Both tasted very similar to this base. I'm sure that only means the head chef wasn't in the kitchen as their food is usually amazing, but it gives me high hopes that this base will make some great curries.
I'm looking forward to hearing Solars Vindaloo report later.
That reminds me, one funny thing about the book is that he explains how to make a Vindaloo paste which can be added to dishes to heat them up, i.e. if you make a CTM for the family once you serve theirs you can add some of this to the rest in the pan to make it a Chicken Tikka Massala Vindaloo. For some reason he doesnt use it in the Vindaloo recipe - strange.
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Just ordered my copy off of Amazon!! :)
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Hurry up Solar make your curry , want to know if its worth buying this book or not lol
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How did it smell and taste in comparison to other bases (e.g. CA's)?
Hi
Compared to CA's base, this base has far more body to it. Definitely a lot more 'spiced' with a nice silky appearance when stirred.
EDIT: I should point out that, CA's base is my current favorite and I have been using that for probably over a year with consistent excellent results, so am reasonably confident in using it as some sort of benchmark / basis for comparisons.
I think it is quite similar in consistency and body to the SNS base (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2757.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2757.0)) however it has quite a distinct taste and aroma which is slightly different to any base that I have tried so far.
During the first phase of cooking the aroma was out of this world. From down the garden I could smell it cooking, and it truly was just like you were walking past your favorite BIR.
However, after the cooling, blending and second cook, the smell changed to being quite - for want of better words heavy and over-powering in the kitchen. I did get a little concerned that it was ruining.
TBH - it was probably the fact that the cooking period is quite long and too much of a good thing etc...
It is too early to say whether this base is all it is beholden to be. All I could possible say at this stage, is that it is an enjoyable and welcome change to the usual bases and well worth a try.
I tell you what though! - it did make a smashing Vindaloo. Will post pics and more details tonight.
Thanks all.
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All I could possible say at this stage, is that it is an enjoyable and welcome change to the usual bases and well worth a try.
Looking at your pictures I can't see anything in there that you wouldn't find in most other base recipes. Would you care to give us an ingredients list for the base (without quantities to avoid copyright issues)?
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Looking at your pictures I can't see anything in there that you wouldn't find in most other base recipes. Would you care to give us an ingredients list for the base (without quantities to avoid copyright issues)?
Hi
You are probably quite correct in your observation that there are no particularly unusual ingredients.
There are two ingredients that in my admittedly limited experience are slightly uncommon in a base, these being asafoetida and cabbage, but that is about it.
What I had hoped to do was to post with reference to line items on the recipe page of the book, quantities of the ingredients that I used in the base, this is because the author does not really provide any accurate measurements for scaling the quantity of the base and it would be really helpful I think for readers to compare notes and opinions on this.
It is actually the proportions of the standard ingredients that are most interesting about the recipe! so by giving a list of ingredients, you would not be gaining any new knowledge.
Probably best to get a few more people trying the recipes, feeding back and then members can be in a more informed position to decide if they want to part with cash for the book.
cheers
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I made a 9 litre stockpot full of this base yesterday too but I haven't had a chance to make it into a curry yet. I think the base definitely has more aroma and taste than the other bases I have tried (SNS and CA).
I went out for a curry lunch yesterday (at the Shomraat) and they brought out (amongst other dishes) a Bhuna and a vegetable curry. Both tasted very similar to this base. I'm sure that only means the head chef wasn't in the kitchen as their food is usually amazing, but it gives me high hopes that this base will make some great curries.
I'm looking forward to hearing Solars Vindaloo report later.
That reminds me, one funny thing about the book is that he explains how to make a Vindaloo paste which can be added to dishes to heat them up, i.e. if you make a CTM for the family once you serve theirs you can add some of this to the rest in the pan to make it a Chicken Tikka Massala Vindaloo. For some reason he doesnt use it in the Vindaloo recipe - strange.
chris , was the 9ltrs including the water to be added later in the cooking ?
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Looking at your pictures I can't see anything in there that you wouldn't find in most other base recipes. Would you care to give us an ingredients list for the base (without quantities to avoid copyright issues)?
He says that many/most base sauces have 18 ingredients.
If that's true, how come it doesn't really fit with our obervations of base sauces, coming from a fair few real BIR kitchens?
He says to "Initially make the gravy exactly as specified." Solarspace - Did you? I don't see a cabbage in your photo.
Onions
Cabbage
Carrots
Red pepper
Green pepper
Garlic puree
Ginger puree
Tomatoes
Tomato paste (he doesn't say whether this is his modified version)
Salt
Coriander seeds
Cumin seeds
Asafoetida
Fenugreek seeds
Curry powder
Turmeric
Chilli powder (option)
Fresh coriander
Plus:
Reclaimed oil
and water
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Hi
Don't know how the blooming cabbage escaped from the picture. I blame the wife because she took the picture!
I made it exactly to spec excepting the issue of the quantity scaling.
EDIT: Looking again more closely at the picture, not the full portion of everything is shown, this may have a been a worktop space issue, but TBH that picture was only meant as a bit of fun rather than to be analysed.
cheers
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I made it exactly to spec excepting the issue of the quantity scaling.
That's great news. It makes your feedback very relevant. I still hope to be able to withdraw my doubts about the book.
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This thread is quite timely for me. I ordered a takeaway the other night and my car stank of a cabbage like smell. I would not be at all suprised if cabbage is a missing ingredient we have all overlooked. I know of one very good indian cookery book which states that some restaurant curries back in indian include cabbage. It lists a few recipies with white cabbage, as well. These are obviously not bir style curries, but it proves cabbage is part of real indian restaurant cookery. This only occured to me after reading this book a few weeks ago. I may try just adding a little cabbage water to my base to start with.
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Some months ago I asked if anyone had used cabbage, (CA I think?). Since I thought it gave that cardboard box smell. There is something missing, its subtle not overpowering. I haven't added cabbage yet, but I have tried just about everything else. Rubbing fresh celery on your fingers, gives off a similar aroma too.
The real problem for me is that there are no quantities mentioned. (Unless I missed that?) If so apologies.
Interesting. Oh Tom powder added last thing really does pep up any Dish. Try it sometime.
Best.
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Hi
If in possession of the 'Undercover Curry' book, please see page 21 & 22 - hopefully you will find a correlation to the proportions listed here and to the ingredients specified for the recipe.
As already stated, everything made to specification, including re-used Bhaji oil. Point in main contention is the proportions and measurements thereof.
List#1
3kg into 11 litre stock pot
3/4
3x
1x
1x
10 desert spoons
1 can
4 desert spoons
List#2
All desert spoons:
4
4
4
4
4
4
2
optional = 1
several handfuls
3/4 litre
1.5 cups
Here are some pictures of the Vindaloo:
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/9fdb6a6470a5ea35cf8bcdf1b0b9e3e6.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#9fdb6a6470a5ea35cf8bcdf1b0b9e3e6.jpg)
Same Vindaloo with the Palau rice recipe too (Sorry shop bought Bhajis - scoffed the ones made from the book already):
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/e1aff8bd614cc04d8057c01f9775aa56.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#e1aff8bd614cc04d8057c01f9775aa56.jpg)
Obviously web sites don't do taste, but you always have to do the from refrigerator next day tests! - still has a nice consistence and not sitting in a lake of oil.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/0958b0e7349c6d0aafa6a1eff922ad3a.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#0958b0e7349c6d0aafa6a1eff922ad3a.jpg)
I would really value others opinions on the quantities of the ingredients used etc.
Happy cooking!
cheers
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That looks incredible solarspace!!!!!
I can't wait for my copy to arrive :)
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Hi Solarsplace
Great looking pictures, I also have the book and can't wait to try it out,
Did you make the vindaloo paste.
Cheers
Matt
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@all - thanks for the complements, but humble as I am, I just made someone else's recipe ;) and if I can do it, then you all can do it!
Hi Solarsplace
Great looking pictures, I also have the book and can't wait to try it out,
Did you make the vindaloo paste.
Cheers
Matt
Hi
As far as I understood it - and there is a lot of room for mistakes with this book! - the separate Vindaloo paste was not needed for the pure Vindaloo recipe. I got the impression it was a tool that could be added to the curry chefs arsenal to 'spice up' lesser spiced dishes etc. Therefore no, I did not.
However, I did make the tomato pure variation to spec. and did include a tsp of garlic powder too.
cheers
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Why all this silly ummming and arrrring? What's the point of a lenghty debate on a book and spurious allusions to unusual ingredients, so called mistakes, and recipes if your not going to say what they are?
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Cabbage in a base is nothing new. Look at ronnoc's base here http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2332.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2332.0)
The other site also uses it in a base recipe.
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Why all this silly ummming and arrrring? What's the point of a lenghty debate on a book and spurious allusions to unusual ingredients, so called mistakes, and recipes if your not going to say what they are?
What?
The ingredients others deemed 'unusual' have already been stated, asafoetida and cabbage. I believe Solarspace meant that there is room for mistakes given how imprecise some of the instructions are. People have been reluctant to post recipes through fear of infringing copyright.
Why the attitude?
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People have been reluctant to post recipes through fear of infringing copyright.
You only infringe copyright if you copy the recipe or text word for word. Far too many of the posts on this thread have been far too allusive and far too non specific to be at all helpful in my opinion. Happy as to what I have an attitude now ramirez? Because the vagueness is pissing me off ok?
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Okay, so the big surprise in the base wasn't the fact is has asafoetida in it, it's not an unusual item but is usually used very sparingly - a pinch here or there at the most. In this recipe he puts in 2 chefs spoons of the stuff! I personally like the way it enhances onion tastes in things like onion bhajis. Used too much it can end up producing a smell not unlike oniony vomit. Thankfully in this base despite using so much there aren't any negative effects. I'm making a Madras for lunch today so I'll post back how it ends up.
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Why the attitude?
If you knew who hk was Ramirez I don't think the attitude would surprise you at all! ;) ::)
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Why the attitude?
If you knew who hk was Ramirez I don't think the attitude would surprise you at all! ;) ::)
Oooo I love a good mystery, it's like an episode of Scooby Doo! LMAO :P
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If you knew who hk was Ramirez I don't think the attitude would surprise you at all! ;) ::)
lmao, the odious poison pigmy has forgotten to take his paranoia medication again ::)
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He says that many/most base sauces have 18 ingredients.
But does he mean that most/all bases will be made from a subset of that list (which is true) or that all of those 18 ingredients will be used?
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In this recipe he puts in 2 chefs spoons of the stuff!
2 chef's spoons, 120ml? :o
Thanks for being more specific chris, it makes more sense to me now.
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wasn't the fact is has asafoetida in it...he puts in 2 chefs spoons of the stuff!
Now that's piqued my interest. I tend to use a lot of asafoetida in certain dishes but I would never have thought to put so much into a base. Of course what he's actually doing is adding lots of turmeric and thickener as that's what makes up the bulk of most brands of powdered asafoetida, so it's not really that big of a deal.
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Cabbage in a base is nothing new. Look at ronnoc's base here http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2332.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2332.0)
That's certainly true and over the years I've seen parsnips, mooli, celeriac and numerous other vegetables in base sauces. I doubt that using cabbage will have any truly beneficial effect.
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And, please tell me guys, why is it, do you think, that "mozeous", who joined this forum on March 15th, and has only made 2 posts, both about this book, started this thread?
It seems to me that they he is simply promoting this book and you are all simply playing into his hands (but I could be wrong). Fair enough, but please be more specific when debating the books content (without breaching copyright) is all I'm saying.
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I've just finished eating the Undercover Madras which was pretty good. It had an optional ingredient of Tandoori Sauce which is almost identical to Dipuraja's tandoori marinade. I didn't have any but it would have been good to see if that helped increase the depth of flavour. It tasted nice but I've had better in decent BIR's (I've also had a lot worse). the sauce was very lightly spiced which didn't help. I'm not sure that his conversion of 1 chef spoon dip = 0.75 tsp is really right. I think it needed more G/G paste too. I made a second batch with the spices ramped up that is sitting in the fridge ready for lunch tomorrow.
I'm certain the base has great potential but I'm pretty confident from the cooking method that while the author saw a lot of ingredients going into dishes and made lots of notes, he never got to do any cooking and therefore isn't able to give the precise cooking method required. He suggests the Madras is ready a few moments after adding the base to the dish. In every kitchen demo or video I have seen the base sits in the pan for at least 3 - 4 minutes bubbling away furiously and occasionally getting watered down with more base or water. The idea of adding the base, giving it a quick stir and then adding coriander and serving immediately doesn't ring true at all. I was taught the dish is ready just as the sauce starts to split and give up it's oil.
The CTM recipe is hilarious - you'd love it hk! It starts by pouring half a tin of fruit cocktail into a blender adding yoghurt and a few spices and blending. Actually, that pretty much is the entire recipe :)
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Hi Chris
Did you take any pics? - I always think a picture really speaks a thousand words, especially when it comes to curry's.
Thanks
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It was gone before I thought about a photo!
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HK - Please sort out the tone of your posts.
Consider yourself warned.
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and that was that lmao
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Sorry if I have missed it solarsplace but I can't see where you have described the Vindaloo, not ingred's but just how it tastes?
I do have a feeling that we have been here before though... ;D
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Hi Curry King
EDIT: I severely messed up the quantity of tomato pure quoted in this post. Please read further through the thread for the correction. Thanks.
Yes you are right, I made some observations about the base, but not the Vindaloo itself. Will try and correct that below.
Ok...
Made Vindaloo recipe to book spec with regard to ingredients. Did not add chilli flakes though because I did not have any. The ingredients were measured out by measuring spoons rather than chefs spoon 'dippings' where a standard 'dipping' is apparently 2/3 of a teaspoon.
Observations - far too much tomato pure is specified in the recipe - 4 chefs spoons - need to confirm - not got book to hand. Half the amount would be more than enough in my opinion.
The ingredients to turn the standard base into the Vindaloo are nothing new and quite basic, there are only a handful at that, such as some cumin, salt, chilli powder, vinegar etc, no black pepper.
The things that make the Vindaloo recipe for me to rate at this time i.e. a first cook above average is the solid base recipe with a good depth of flavor and the tomato pure with added ingredients such as tandori masala in it make a new change for me anyway.
So the bottom line is, the combination of a fairly strong base and a fairly light recipe make a nice garlicky, hot, tomatoey vindaloo.
It would also be correct to say that we also have base and recipe combos already on the site with heavy on one, light on the other and visa vera combos.
IMO at the moment, this book is not the be all and end all, but there are some interesting nuggets. Also I would say, that unless a reader has already been exposed to cooking from this site or one of the other curry secrets type books, they would really struggle to make the recipes. It needs a second edition with a fairly severe edit and re-wording.
It would be great to have others try out the recipes and report back their successes though! - its all too easy to be critical and negative of things like this.
Anyway, thats just my opinion, others may wish to agree / disagree, Hope that helps.
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4 Chef spoons of tom puree sounds extreme, I don't know about half but for a standard vindaloo i would use approx a teaspoons worth. Adding vinegar again is a no no for me and sounds more like traditional cooking than BIR.
As others have said it does just appear to be similar to what we already know with a couple of quirks thrown in although I would consider 4 chefs spoons of tom puree to be a typo, it must be :-X
I will just add, can you just try making a test vindaloo with this base but only use tom puree, g&g puree and chilli powder, maybe add some salt at the end if it's needed? If the base is full flavoured which it should be given the ingredient list it should be really nice, if it comes out horrible you can blame me ;)
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(Thanks Admin).
Back to it.
I am interested in this to be honest. It's served up a whole nest-egg of ideas even if they were all tried, or mentioned before. What is clear to me in any case is that whatever we've tried, that last bridge, that last stop in all, not just one recipe is still a nats hair away.
For me this is how it is. My Food is great, no doubt about it. Put next door to a restaurant one. It fails. its the depth, that middle ground really, its not all salt. Tom powder really does help, try it, you'll be pleasantly surprised folks.
I'm still going to double my onion ratio and perhaps add the cabbage too. I don't think quantities will matter too much to be honest, its just a watered down soup after all. It will matter to mind though, if something is missing?
Nice one folks.
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Undercover Dave mentions the tomato paste as being something special on his website, anyone who has the book care to comment.
I've ordered a copy but no idea how long it'll take to get here, can't contain my curiosity any longer!
Cheers
CoR.
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on another note , i work in a call centre doing sales , get lots of indian customers calling up - just had a wee chat with one and quized him bout the base gravy , i have to call him after work for the low down lol, will let you know how it goes
Garry
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Hi
Well, made the base and a monster portion of it too!
Russell
An interesting read
Did you use fresh oil?
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on another note , i work in a call centre doing sales , get lots of indian customers calling up - just had a wee chat with one and quized him bout the base gravy , i have to call him after work for the low down lol, will let you know how it goes
Garry
LOL. Nice one!
Let us know how it goes.
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Hi Curry King
Yes you are right, I made some observations about the base, but not the Vindaloo itself. Will try and correct that below.
Ok...
Made Vindaloo recipe to book spec with regard to ingredients. Did not add chilli flakes though because I did not have any. The ingredients were measured out by measuring spoons rather than chefs spoon 'dippings' where a standard 'dipping' is apparently 2/3 of a teaspoon.
Observations - far too much tomato pure is specified in the recipe - 4 chefs spoons - need to confirm - not got book to hand. Half the amount would be more than enough in my opinion.
The ingredients to turn the standard base into the Vindaloo are nothing new and quite basic, there are only a handful at that, such as some cumin, salt, chilli powder, vinegar etc, no black pepper.
The things that make the Vindaloo recipe for me to rate at this time i.e. a first cook above average is the solid base recipe with a good depth of flavor and the tomato pure with added ingredients such as tandori masala in it make a new change for me anyway.
So the bottom line is, the combination of a fairly strong base and a fairly light recipe make a nice garlicky, hot, tomatoey vindaloo.
It would also be correct to say that we also have base and recipe combos already on the site with heavy on one, light on the other and visa vera combos.
IMO at the moment, this book is not the be all and end all, but there are some interesting nuggets. Also I would say, that unless a reader has already been exposed to cooking from this site or one of the other curry secrets type books, they would really struggle to make the recipes. It needs a second edition with a fairly severe edit and re-wording.
It would be great to have others try out the recipes and report back their successes though! - its all too easy to be critical and negative of things like this.
Anyway, thats just my opinion, others may wish to agree / disagree, Hope that helps.
solarsplace , the book says the recipes are for 3 - 4 person portions .
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4 Chef spoons of tom puree sounds extreme...
I'd say that's putting it mildly!
Four Chef spoons is about 16 tablespoons! :o I'd be hitting a vindaloo with a tablespoon max.
Adding vinegar again is a no no for me and sounds more like traditional cooking than BIR
I couldn't agree more.
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Hi
Well, made the base and a monster portion of it too!
Russell
An interesting read
Did you use fresh oil?
Hi haldi
I did not use fresh oil. The book makes it absolutely 100% clear to the reader, that in order to get that BIR taste you must use the oil that has been used to cook the onion bahjis in. This is the oil that I used as per the authors spec.
FYI - I also made a mistake regarding my statements about how much tomato pur?e the author specifies for the Vindaloo.
The author does not specify 4 chefs spoons. He says 1 to 1.5 curry spoons.
The measurements are as follows:
1 curry spoon standard dip = 3/4 teaspoon
1 level curry spoon (scraped level, not tamped) = 4 teaspoons
1 curry spoon scoop = 10 teaspoons
So my previous post did the recipe a severe injustice and I apologise for misleading anyone.
This also means I put waaay too much tomato pur?e in my Vindaloo - but it still tasted really nice!
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solarsplace , the book states ' The recipes are for 3 - 4 person portions ' that would explain the amount of tomato puree etc.
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Thanks for the info solarspice that makes more sense combined with, as emin-j points out, they are for 3-4 persons.
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solarsplace , the book states ' The recipes are for 3 - 4 person portions '
You have to ask yourself why would someone who has gone undercover in so many BIRs, who would have seen for himself that each dish is made individually, would opt to give quantities for 3-4 people? ??? ::)
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you must use the oil that has been used to cook the onion bahjis in. This is the oil that I used as per the authors spec.
Does he say what quantity of bhajis have to be cooked to achieve the required flavour?
Also did you use the vinegar and if so what effect did you think it had?
Either way I think your efforts certainly look good.
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mine arrives tomorrow.. waiting with mixed feeling.
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Hi Secret Santa
With regard to the onion bhaji's
I know what's coming.... I can feel it....
The book provides as listed a recipe for.... wait for it.... a recipe using 4Kg of onions to produce 120 bahji's.
You know it, I know it, this is totally impractical for the home cook.
EDIT: The specific quantity required to achieve the BIR taste is not specifically stated. I would say it is implied by the first recipe quantity, but THB who knows. I would be guessing.
Instructions are provided to scale the recipe down, basically the gram flour weight should always be 1/4 the onion weight.
I massively scaled it down to produce around 12 bhajis and cooked them in around 3/4 litre of oil which was just enough to make the portion of base that the wife an I had to spend ages working out how to scale down.
But they were very nice. Although you could save yourself the bother of the scale down and just make the 'Covent Garden' ones from this site - can't now find link?
Vinegar? - In the Vindaloo?
Yes I did.
I think less is more, especially with the use of Vinegar. The author only specifies to use a cap-full for the whole portion and that is actually working very well.
I really think we need to get someone else with a little more experience than I to try some of this stuff now! I think the group will benefit from some more thoughts and opinions.
Thanks
Russell
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Secret Santa , This book really needs to be read to understand the way the author has put all the info into print , as he says ' It's a book of techniques not a Curry Cookery Book ' it's not a ' teaspoon ' recipe book either it's as you would expect it to be written from a BIR kitchen way of cooking . It's an excellent read and I am on my second read of it to make it all sink in ;)
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mine arrives tomorrow.. waiting with mixed feeling.
I hope you and mixed feeling aren't disappointed when it arrives! ;D
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Hi, I've enjoyed reading my copy so far and am looking forward to trying it out this weekend. Going to try for a curry a night this weekend, especially after reading the 'Curry is Healthy' thing in the back! The only thing I really do want to try is the onion bhaji/oil thing but dont really fancy cooking 150 of the buggers so will have to scale down a little using the guide.
On the whole, for someone like myself who doesnt have the time to be cooking all the time, trying out all the different tricks and tips on this site, I'm hoping it'll be ideal. I'm not expecting to get it the same as the local BIR, it takes many,many years of experience to get to that stage after all..
Going to make a big base up, cook a load of chicken and try some of the curries :)
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MMmmm
Interesting one on page 82 a Do piazza with no whole onions? more like ১ Piazza
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I'm not expecting to get it the same as the local BIR, it takes many,many years of experience to get to that stage after all..
I hope you don't really believe that nonsense about needing to have decades of experience.
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I'm not expecting to get it the same as the local BIR, it takes many,many years of experience to get to that stage after all..
I hope you don't really believe that nonsense about needing to have decades of experience.
George..
How long has this site been running? And has anyone managed to get it right, and I mean completely right time after time? Maybe in a few years it'll get cracked, but then that will have taken experience? Maybe not decades, but a few years at least..
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And, please tell me guys, why is it, do you think, that "mozeous", who joined this forum on March 15th, and has only made 2 posts, both about this book, started this thread?
It seems to me that they he is simply promoting this book and you are all simply playing into his hands (but I could be wrong). Fair enough, but please be more specific when debating the books content (without breaching copyright) is all I'm saying.
No conspiracy here, I stumbled upon the book while google searching "bir curry" and thought you guys might be interested in it as I was, seeing how many people did buy the book after reading my post would be nice if the author sent me a free copy. The only contact I've had with the author or who ever replies to emails on the book's website is if I could order a copy of the book from Australia through the website to which they replied it would be better off to order through amazon. I don't even have the book yet.
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MMmmm
Interesting one on page 82 a Do piazza with no whole onions? more like ১ Piazza
Hi slimboy
He does however add the special onion sauce that is made separately on page 37.
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I could have got a decent take away for that ?8 ;D
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maybe we are closer to the BIR than you think, personally I think food you cook and food that is cooked for you differs slightly. just a thought.
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Made the bhaji's tonight. Superb..
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Got a pan full of the Undercover 2 litre base on the go right now, it's on the second simmer and the whole house is beginning to smell of very BIR aromas, yummy.
Must be the hing, doin' its thing!
Cheers
CoR
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Got a pan full of the Undercover 2 litre base on the go right now, it's on the second simmer and the whole house is beginning to smell of very BIR aromas, yummy.
Must be the hing, doin' its thing!
Cheers
CoR
What oil did you use in the base ? and did you use cabbage ? :)
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Got a load of base on the go today too ;D
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/two_smoke/Curry%20time/IMG_1396.jpg)
Just waiting for it to cool before blending..
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/two_smoke/Curry%20time/IMG_1397.jpg)
And what remains of last nights bhaji's and samosas. Very impressed with them!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/two_smoke/Curry%20time/IMG_1398.jpg)
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Thought the onions were supposed to be whole or am i wrong ???and got this base mixed up with someone elses :-\
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Great pics, thanks.
My pan had things floating on it, just like it is really. Did you put everything in, in one go?
Great pics again.
;D
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I'm sure it said to roughly chop everything... :P
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Good effort Tye. Is that fenugreek seeds on top of the base ingredients? They look whole rather than crushed - took me about 20 mins of hard smashing in the pestle and mortar to break mine down. Did using them whole have any negative effect i.e. hard bits in the final base? Maybe after an hour of simmering they get soft enough to blend.
Also, I hate raising negative points, but the bhajis look a bit cakey. Thats usually caused by having too much batter stuck to the onions. I used to be very happy with bhajis that looked like that before Axe's excellent kitchen demo showed me the error of my ways.
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Chris, yes I stuck the fenugreek seeds in whole, kinda realised my mistake after they'd gone in but they seem to have broken down ok.
The Bhaji's were a little cakey, but bear in mind that is them before the final hot fry. That seemed to remove a great deal of it and to be fair they were a damn sight tastier than any other home made attempts I've tried. But maybe less bicarb next time.
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Got a pan full of the Undercover 2 litre base on the go right now, it's on the second simmer and the whole house is beginning to smell of very BIR aromas, yummy.
Must be the hing, doin' its thing!
Cheers
CoR
What oil did you use in the base ? and did you use cabbage ? :)
Yes there was cabbage in it and the oil was my own spiced oil (rice bran oil + ginger, garlic, and whole spices infused on a low heat for about half an hour), can't do o/b's etc atm as we don't have a deep fryer.
The base turned out really well even though I screwed up a bit and didn't dilute it enough so the texture wasn't quite right in the finished curry, the taste was definitely along the right lines though, well worth a go.
Going to do the onion sauce later today and the vindaloo paste looks interesting.
Regards
CoR
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Hi,
TyeNoodle, CurryOnRegardless & all
Have you made any of the main dishes yet? - would be interested to see some pics and hear some feedback from your efforts.
I have personally made the Vindaloo recipe around 5 times now, will try another dish soon, but I like to reach a point of producing consistent results with a recipe for comparison reasons.
The other night, when sitting down munching on said curry, for the first time - I had an inner thought to myself. This thought was something along the lines of:
'Well you've made some damn good curries in the past of this there is no doubt, but if you are truthful to yourself you know they are just not quite the same as a BIR makes them. But this one, this one is a little different. This actually for the first time has an unexplained quality about it, almost like I did not make it. It is actually very BIR. You know you have some way to go to be sure, but this actually has a remarkable BIR quality to it.'
Trouble is, at least three things have changed now, new cooking technique of high heat throughout - as high as I can get it without burning the spices and splattering curry all over the kitchen, new base and new main recipe. Not sure which part of the equation is to attribute. Probably all three....
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Hi Solarspice
If you think you are nearer to 'that' BIR taste now wait till you try the onion sauce, fantastic. Will be testing out the vindaloo sauce next week.
This Undercover Dave bloke has definitely got something right, IMHO. Anyone else notice he doesn't use a spice mix in the main meals, just ordinary curry powder.
Cheers
CoR
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Hi Cor
I noticed the lack of a spice mix, however the using the Rajah Curry Powder on its own does make some sense as the main ingredients are-
Corriander
Tumeric
Cumin
Chilli
Garlic
Yellow Mustard
Fenugreek
Bay Leaves
Fennel
Basically the ingredients that go into many of the spice mixes.
I will be making the onion sauce next, what meal did you use it for.
There is no recipe for the Tandoori Massala, what are you using.
Thanks
Matt
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Hi, I've been plodding on this week with the curries. I made a Garlic Chilli Chicken on sunday, and the taste was 'bang on'! Apart from the fact my 'dipping' is a little over enthusiastic so made it a bit hot! Tasted good tho..
Monday, Dhansak. Was good but I didnt use enough pineapple juice and the wrong lentils.
Yesterday, Made a rogan "josh" (with chicken). Superb... She was made up with it, few other things to change but overall very impressed.
Quite happy with the book so far, its simplified everything for me and the results I'm getting are great.
Jalfrezi tomorro.... :)
Ready to rock..
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/two_smoke/Curry%20time/IMG_1401.jpg)
Garlic chilli chicken
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/two_smoke/Curry%20time/IMG_1402.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/two_smoke/Curry%20time/IMG_1403.jpg)
Dhansak
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/two_smoke/Curry%20time/IMG_1404.jpg)
Rogan Chicken
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/two_smoke/Curry%20time/IMG_1407.jpg)
With Garnish.. the smell of this stuff smelled like the local T/A while cooking..
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/two_smoke/Curry%20time/IMG_1410.jpg)
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Fantastic looking pictues, I'll have to wait until saturday before I try another recipe, diet time :'(
M
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:o
Those pictures look absolutely delicious. Going to have to give this a go soon.
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Hi
@TyeNoodle
God like curry pics, nice cooking setup too!
@CurryOnRegardless
Good to hear your recomendation - on the list to do!
@matt3333
Good question, what is his tandori masala made of - sort of implies its Pataks? - keen to find out! - bit of a silly omission in the book.
cheers all.
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Hi guys,
I think the tandoori masala is just a commercial mix, probably Rajah judging by his comments in the book.
The tandoori marinade makes a big difference, trouble is being made with yogurt how long is it going to last? Presumably BIR's make a new batch everyday but that's not very practical for us at home, I have some in the fridge from the w/e but don't think it's going to last much longer. Same goes for the tomato paste.
Still, getting great results have done a bhuna, madras, and jalfrezi so far and they have all been good, plenty of room for improvement of course but definitely going in the right direction.
Cheers
CoR
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Hi CoR
With the tomato paste I freeze mine in ice cubes then put into plastic bags, I have also done the same with another Tandoori marinade and this was ok no reduction in flavour and the marinade did not go off.
Matt
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i have just ordered the book, looking forward to the read and see if it can improve my curries ::)
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Hello, made my favourite today. Chicken Tikka Jalfrezi.
Came out way better than anything else I've made, almost as good as the local t/a's and with a little tweak or two it'll be there.
Invited a mate round who is famed for his honesty and he said it was superb so i think we are on the right track.
?8 well spent so far :)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/two_smoke/Curry%20time/IMG_1411.jpg)
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Picture looks great Tyenoodle. I ordered my copy yesterday so might get it tomorrow.
Paul.
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Well, this has got me too curious!!
I've just bought it
For a tenner, it's got to be worth it
The curries really look really good
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Haldi, it will give you your pre-used oil you were after! If nothing else.
Very good book, I for one am happy with it! ;D
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TyeNoodle, where are the chillis mate? It ain't a Jalfrezi if it ain't got whole chillis!
And that had better not be a slice of cucumber just under dead centre of the picture! ;D
If I were being super critical I'd say it was too red and had way too many onions too.
This is how a Jalfrezi should look:
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/af1e65e82efd69c79dfdffc417aae9f5.jpg)
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Hello, chillies are in there somewhere and its a lime you see, not cucumber!!
And it looks the same as my local, tastes similar too is what I'm after. Yours looks too gooey for me sorry. Kinda what I had served to me in a 'posh' BIR in some scottish town I visited earlier this year.
After all, its what its all about innit... getting what you like ;)
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Hi Tyenoodle
Is your version of the Jalfrezi from this book?
It definitely has too many onions for me, looks more like a dopiaza to me. Lime in a jalfrezi...well I never! :o
I do agree with you that the one in the picture I posted (it's not mine) does look gooey or too thick, I would certainly prefer a runnier sauce.
But for me it does have all the trademarks of a decent Jalfrezi...not too red with artificial colour, prominent whole chillis and subtle quantiies of tomato and pepper. It seems that all dishes nowadays are brimming with peppers and onions. How the hell do the hope to differentiate their offerings when they do that!
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Just put the Undercover Curry Base on the cooker and within 20 mins the house smells like a BIR takeaway ;D of all the base sauce recipes I have made none has quite had this aroma :) don't know if it's the Hing or the amount of Onions or the Bhaji Oil but it smells wonderful.
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I posted this some time ago now. Interesting how things come around isn't it?
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3937.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3937.0)
How many people have tried that recipe from this new book so far please?
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I posted this some time ago now. Interesting how things come around isn't it?
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3937.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3937.0)
You might be right.
I can't get my taste buds anywhere near it. it's certainly not BIR
If you are right and Jerry is wrong, perhaps Jerry will need to delete it from the list of myths. I always said we should be more careful before dismissing anything, until we're 100% there, and can look back on how it was done, with more certainty.
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Hi Emin-j,
I've now got the book too. It raises many questions though.
Did you use the onion bhaji oil and if so roughly how many bhajis did you cook in it?
Secondly what size of base did you make and did you stick to the recipe quantities?
Finally what sort of hing did you use? The large quantities of hing specified seem like nothing else I've seen.
Cheers,
Paul.
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Hi Emin-j,
I've now got the book too. It raises many questions though.
Did you use the onion bhaji oil and if so roughly how many bhajis did you cook in it?
Secondly what size of base did you make and did you stick to the recipe quantities?
Finally what sort of hing did you use? The large quantities of hing specified seem like nothing else I've seen.
Cheers,
Paul.
Hi Paul, luckily our deep fat fryer is only used to cook Bhaji's and the odd few Chips so used 400ml of that .
The hing I bought from here - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/200g-ASAFOETIDA-HING-WHOLE-INDIAN-SPICES-SEASONINGS-/150405487316?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Home_Garden_Food_SM&hash=item2304dd9ad4 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/200g-ASAFOETIDA-HING-WHOLE-INDIAN-SPICES-SEASONINGS-/150405487316?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Home_Garden_Food_SM&hash=item2304dd9ad4)
It's the 'whole ' variety and you have to grind it yourself .
I have a 10 ltr pot 5ltr of veg ( 3/4 Onion then all the rest ) after first cook and blend added 4 ltrs water then simmer, the base looks great ;)
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Hi Tyenoodle
Is your version of the Jalfrezi from this book?
It definitely has too many onions for me, looks more like a dopiaza to me. Lime in a jalfrezi...well I never! :o
I do agree with you that the one in the picture I posted (it's not mine) does look gooey or too thick, I would certainly prefer a runnier sauce.
But for me it does have all the trademarks of a decent Jalfrezi...not too red with artificial colour, prominent whole chillis and subtle quantiies of tomato and pepper. It seems that all dishes nowadays are brimming with peppers and onions. How the hell do the hope to differentiate their offerings when they do that!
Hi SS, I made a few alterations to the recipe as I do enjoy onions in my curries. I also added the piece of lime as a finisher, the local t/a does it and it seems to work.
To be honest with you, its the only dish I have from there that has that quantity of onions and peppers in it, but then I never have much 'traditional bir' dishes from there, preferring to eat off the 'house specials' menu.
It tastes good to me, and my friends so I'm going to work on the back of that! ;D
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It's the 'whole ' variety and you have to grind it yourself .
I reckon if you do that emin-j you'll be using vastly more hing than the book suggests, unless it specifically states that the resin variety should be used as you have done.
The reason, as I've mentioned before, is that the hing that the BIRs are likely to use is the ready powdered type like the Vandevi brand (I've actually seen them use this). And of course this type of hing is mostly filler/thickener and turmeric.
What you're using is pure hing so you would want to use, what, about a tenth of the amount suggested in the book.
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Hi
Amongst other things, made the book's Saag Aloo this weekend.
Very, very nice. BIR flavour all the way.
Our forum friend 'chriswg' will love this recipe, tastes just like they make it at the Shomratt! (http://www.shomraat.com/ (http://www.shomraat.com/))
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/8930ac78dfcbdeb331ba9f1cfc9136b0.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#8930ac78dfcbdeb331ba9f1cfc9136b0.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/5cd1d009bb87fc60d2abfa29717fb43c.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#5cd1d009bb87fc60d2abfa29717fb43c.jpg)
Maybe a little too much oil in my version, but the taste was there!
Cheers
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that looks lovely, my book arrives later this week, cant wait to get cracking !
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Hi SS,
I know what you mean about the pure hing versus the cheap stuff - that could be a big variable in making the base sauce. I don't know whether you've got this book or not but it opens up a whole load of questions for me.
One thing I noticed was that the author states the garlic/ginger paste lasts for months in the fridge. That is not the case and is in fact dangerous without preservative. Much safer to freeze it.
Also when making the full sized base recipe what's all this stuff about not stirring and letting the spices sink and stick to the bottom of the pan?
Paul.
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Looks good, I had this at the Shomraat last Sunday. They do a cracking Sunday lunch deal, I think it was ?7.95 for adults and ?3.95 for kids, everyone got a selection of starters and poppadums, then a selection of mains, rice, side dishes and naan. There was plenty to eat and much tastier than a buffet.
What do you think gives it the BIR flavour? I'm guessing a mixture of the fried garlic and the base sauce.
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By the way Solarsplace - next time you get a takeaway, try a Roshney Chicken from Chutneys in Fleet, ask for it Vindaloo hot if you like them spicy. It's my current favourite curry.
If you spend over ?15 tell them you have a voucher for a free side dish, they give you one with every order, stapled to the menu.
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Has anyone emailed the author for clarification of what type of hing is required in the recipes? if indeed he can be contacted.
Ray :)
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Has anyone emailed the author for clarification of what type of hing is required in the recipes? if indeed he can be contacted.
Ray :)
Hi Razor,
I have emailed him today, as soon as I get a response I will let you know,
I did email him before I bought the book and the response was the next day,
So hopefully he will get back to me,
Mick
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what the hell is ( hing ) lol
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It also goes by the name of Asafoetida if that helps :D, and has a pretty revolting smell.
M
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This is the stuff I have (and Solarsplace I think).
http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Natco-Asafoetida-Powder-Hing.html#aISG023 (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Natco-Asafoetida-Powder-Hing.html#aISG023)
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This is the stuff I have (and Solarsplace I think).
http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Natco-Asafoetida-Powder-Hing.html#aISG023 (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Natco-Asafoetida-Powder-Hing.html#aISG023)
Hi Ramirez, All
Yes, that is the exact stuff that I used.
Having never used it before, I was surprised how strong the flavor of the base was affected by it.
Next time I make the base, am only going to use half the amount as before (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4776.msg45620#msg45620 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4776.msg45620#msg45620))
@chriswg
Thanks for the tips! - will make a point to try their 'Roshney Chicken' - never had one of those before.
Cheers
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Well thats my book arrived, quite strange there isnt alot of starters on it, i know it aint a proper cook book but i thought there would be at least chicken pakora on the menu lol
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Well thats my book arrived, quite strange there isnt alot of starters on it, i know it aint a proper cook book but i thought there would be at least chicken pakora on the menu lol
Hi gazman1976
Please post some pictures and feedback of your efforts when you get round to trying some of the recipes!
cheers
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This is the stuff I have (and Solarsplace I think).
http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Natco-Asafoetida-Powder-Hing.html#aISG023 (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Natco-Asafoetida-Powder-Hing.html#aISG023)
Hi Ramirez.
I think that's what most people will have as it's easier to get. Note the ingredients too, they don't give proportions but the asafoetida tends to be the smallest component. So I think given the quantities used in the book it's going to be this sort that is used. The use of pure (resin) hing in the quantities used in the book would be way, way, over the top.
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my 'dipping' is a little over enthusiastic
I really, really, hope that this term doesn't get used again. The concept of 'dipping' (made up by the author) ranks equal to 'chef's pinch' in the annals of cretinous, made up, BIR terminology! >:(
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OK, I've been watching this thread for a while.
Is this book worth getting??
Is there anything new in there that takes us forward? Are the recipes as good as the best ones on the site?
Thx,
Josh
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my 'dipping' is a little over enthusiastic
I really, really, hope that this term doesn't get used again. The concept of 'dipping' (made up by the author) ranks equal to 'chef's pinch' in the annals of cretinous, made up, BIR terminology! >:(
Dipping Dipping Dipping ::)
There is a guide on how to do it accurately in the book, which you should buy I think if you haven't already.
Josh, in my view the book is worth getting! I don't really have the time to be trying all the different bases, recipes, methods etc on this site, so its given me something to focus on and stick to for the cooking. The results so far have been bang on, and I'd advise the sceptics to try the book before picking holes in it.
Besides, what's 8 quid these days? 2 bottles of cider in some pubs?
Paul
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TyeNoodle, you seem to have to gone the furthest with this book. In terms of the bhajis, did you make the recipe for the large or small portion? Also, did you make the tomato paste and tandoori marinade for the dishes you have made so far?
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Hello, I made a smaller portion. Well the mrs did the ingredients and I did the cooking! I think we ended up with about 30 Bhajis? Came out pretty good really, they certainly got eaten fast enough!
I have made the tandoori marinade, tomato paste, garlic and ginger paste, onion sauce so far. Onion sauce I wasn't too happy with but I'm sure that's more my method than the recipe.
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Thanks.
I'm about to embark on all this (bhajis, base, tomato paste, tandoori marinade, etc.). It is certainly a lot of work and a level above what I am currently doing at the moment. Hopefully, it will be worth it.
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I'm the same mate, was a bit daunting at first and took a couple of days of evenings getting everything ready but its all only a defrost away now ;D
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Dipping Dipping Dipping ::)
There is a guide on how to do it accurately in the book, which you should buy I think if you haven't already.
There was no need for a guide at all. All the author needed to do was take a few minutes to work out the quantities in generally accepted measures like teaspoons. It was his clever idea to try and make the book 'distinctive' when it's actually very inconvenient. Then there's the arrogance of the comments about CTM and pages and pages of padding, duplication and blank pages for 'our notes'. I think it's about 150 pages when it could have been kept to a 75 page 'pamphlet'.
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There was no need for a guide at all. All the author needed to do was take a few minutes to work out the quantities in generally accepted measures like teaspoons. It was his clever idea to try and make the book 'distinctive' when it's actually very inconvenient. Then there's the arrogance of the comments about CTM and pages and pages of padding, duplication and blank pages for 'our notes'. I think it's about 150 pages when it could have been kept to a 75 page 'pamphlet'.
He does give conversions though, if I remember correctly. Is he not trying to impress on the reader a certain style, instead of exact amounts of this, exact amounts of that? I'm not defending him here, as I find it annoying also (and quite inconvenient), but I am trying to look at it from the authors point of view.
You're right though, the book does feel very 'padded out'.
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In the book he gives 2 different base recipes for a full batch and a small batch but by my reckoning they don't scale properly.
If you don't have the book and are considering buying it some of the differences I've noted from the recipes I normally use are as follows:
Use of onion bhaji oil in the base is a must have for the BIR flavour.
Use of cabbage in the base.
Use of a very large amount of asafoetida (hing) in the base.
No dried methi specified in any dish except the vegetable curry.
Use of tandoori masalla in many dishes as a main spice ingredient.
Use of tandoori marinade directly in some dishes.
No mix powder specified - just curry powder used.
The reference to "dipping" without giving more meaningful measurements is pretty frustrating for me.
I think I'll have to bite the bullet and buy a deep fat frier and learn how to make onion bhajis before I give this a proper go.
Paul.
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@ paul p , get a cheap fat fryer from asda for ?10 - and i would use the below recipe for the bhaji's as they are spot on and very easy to make
IG Onion Bhaji (Broken down from Kitchen Demo)
Ingredients
4 Onions (size about 5cm diameter)
1 - 2 Cups Gram Flour
1 tbl Corriander Leaf
1/2 Sml Potato
1 Egg Beaten
1/2 tsp Aniseed
1/2 tsp Hot Chilli Powder
1/2 tsp IG Spice Mix (here: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4442.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4442.0))
1/2 tsp Salt
1 Drop Yellow Food Colouring (Optional)
Method
Half and slice the onions, cut the potato into match sticks add the Fennel and Corriander and mix. Add the Chilli and Spice Mix and mix. Add the colouring if using and the egg and salt and mix. Add the
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snip...
The reference to "dipping" without giving more meaningful measurements is pretty frustrating for me.
...snip
Hi
In case this is of help for you, the conversions are on page 61.
1 curry spoon standard dip = three quarters of a teaspoon
1 level curry spoon (just scraped level, not tamped) = 4 teaspoons
1 curry spoon scoop = 10 teaspoons
Yes, you are also correct in that many of the big / small examples do not appear to scale properly - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4776.msg45425#msg45425 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4776.msg45425#msg45425)
Cheers
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You're right though, the book does feel very 'padded out'.
As most people must have noticed, it's largely because he gives numerous recipes for chicken, like Chicken Madras and Chicken Vindaloo, and then reprints them in their entirety as Lamb Madras, Lamb Vindaloo. etc. The only difference is the replacement of the word 'chicken' with the word 'lamb'. At least that Dip fellow on youtube said to simply use chicken, prawns, lamb or whetever you like - the rest of each recipe is the same. It's blatant padding in the Undercover book, together with pages on the medicinal (quack) uses of herbs. Who needs that?
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ive had a quick read of the book, i can see why he expanded on it as it could have easily have been shortened , it was only ?8 quid and i found the read at the start of it quite amusing
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Dipping Dipping Dipping ::)
There is a guide on how to do it accurately in the book, which you should buy I think if you haven't already.
There was no need for a guide at all. All the author needed to do was take a few minutes to work out the quantities in generally accepted measures like teaspoons. It was his clever idea to try and make the book 'distinctive' when it's actually very inconvenient. Then there's the arrogance of the comments about CTM and pages and pages of padding, duplication and blank pages for 'our notes'. I think it's about 150 pages when it could have been kept to a 75 page 'pamphlet'.
George , The book is not intended to be a ' Curry Cookery Book ' as the author says , it is his experience of working in a BIR kitchen and a teaspoon doesn't come into it - I have spent a few hours in T/A and Indian Restaurant kitchens and the way he describes the cooking methods are bang on and for ?8 if the Base Sauce turns out to cook as good as it smells it is for me worth the money just for that ::)
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Has anyone emailed the author for clarification of what type of hing is required in the recipes? if indeed he can be contacted.
Ray :)
Dave has emailed back today saying it is the powdered variety with the additives, ie turmeric that is used,
Mick
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Thanks for that Mick.
Can anybody who has made the base sauce tell me whether they made the smaller volume as per the book or did they scale down the big one themselves?
Cheers,
Paul.
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The book is not intended to be a ' Curry Cookery Book ' as the author says , it is his experience of working in a BIR kitchen
Ah is that so?
Well, if it's not a cookbook why are there so many recipes in it?
And if it is a cookbook, why is he so reticent to give accurate measurements that would be a requirement of any normal cookbook - and please don't insult my or anyone else's intelligence by claiming, as he does, that he wants you to get the real BIR experience?
Let me answer for you. Of course it's a cookbook. It's a cookbook that has been put together by a Scot with a limited first hand knowledge of BIRs and some information gleaned, in all probability, from this forum.
It's something that any long term member of this forum could have cobbled together - and done a better job of.
Congratulations on him being the first. Commiserations on making such such a poor effort.
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Thanks for that Mick.
Can anybody who has made the base sauce tell me whether they made the smaller volume as per the book or did they scale down the big one themselves?
It's a dilemma isn't it PaulP. I'm about to make the base myself and have come across the glaringly different quantities in the scaled version compared to the full version.
The spices scale quite accurately but the other ingredients scale like this:
Ratio
Large 18 litres Small 2 litres 1/9
onion 1/9
cabbage 1/9
carrot 1/4
red pepper 1/2
green pepper 1/2
GG paste 1/16
tin toms 1/4
oil 1/5
water 1/2
Evertything should, of course, scale by 1/9
And how much coriander stalk should you use in either version? Your guess is as good as mine!
I reckon i'll be scaling the large version for myself and ignore his extremely dubious small version.
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@ Secret Santa ( Let me answer for you. Of course it's a cookbook. It's a cookbook that has been put together by a Scot with a limited first hand knowledge of BIRs and some information gleaned, in all probability, from this forum.
It's something that any long term member of this forum could have cobbled together - and done a better job of )
Commiserations on making such such a poor effort
( I'm about to make the base myself )
my question is this ! if you think its so bad and members on here could have done better then
A : why did you buy the book
B : why on earth are you going to make the base lmfao
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had a quick read of the intro and it doesnt look too promising and i shall tell you why
the author was working in a ( BIR ) laugh laugh in Aberdeen , Aberdeen is shite for curries , its like going into iceland and buying one of their frozen meals lol
still it was only ?8 quid lol
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George , The book is not intended to be a ' Curry Cookery Book ' as the author says , it is his experience of working in a BIR kitchen and a teaspoon doesn't come into it - I have spent a few hours in T/A and Indian Restaurant kitchens and the way he describes the cooking methods are bang on and for ?8 if the Base Sauce turns out to cook as good as it smells it is for me worth the money just for that ::)
I agree with you that it will definitely be worth 8 quid if just one or two recipes prove to be real winners. I think it's just a shame he needed to go in for sharp practices like needless duplication and other padding techniques. As for it not being a cookery book, that's another crazy statement for him to make. It's not like it's written in 100% text with anecdotes of working in various kitchens - it's as much a recipe book as any other.
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The book is not intended to be a ' Curry Cookery Book ' as the author says , it is his experience of working in a BIR kitchen
Ah is that so?
Well, if it's not a cookbook why are there so many recipes in it?
Because they are representations of meals he has seen cooked the BIR way probably many times .
And if it is a cookbook, why is he so reticent to give accurate measurements that would be a requirement of any normal cookbook -
Because it's not a ' normal cookbook ' ::)
limited first hand knowledge of BIRs
More than anyone on this Forum then !
It's something that any long term member of this forum could have cobbled together - and done a better job of.
Well , no one has in the 6 years this Forum has been going ! And it has taken the ' Undercover Curry ' Book to put the spark back into this Forum !
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my question is this ! if you think its so bad and members on here could have done better then
A : why did you buy the book
B : why on earth are you going to make the base lmfao
A. I didn't. :o
B. Good question. I know...I emphasise, KNOW... that this base will be no better or worse than many other bases I've tried.
That said, how can I reasonably make comments if I haven't actually made it - which is what you're saying and others will be thinking, so i'll make it and I can then comment without you being able to say my comments aren't valid because I ain't made it myself! ;D
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Well, if it's not a cookbook why are there so many recipes in it?
Because they are representations of meals he has seen cooked the BIR way probably many times .
Yes, so many times apparently that the sheer number of viewings knocked the information about quantities smack out of his paw aul heed! ::)
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Here's another classic quote from this book (talking about the base):
...the vegetables gradually reduce, releasing their moisture and flavours into the oil. (This is a BIR secret that restaurant owners would prefer you didn't know about).
So slowly cooking veg in oil releases moisture and flavour eh? How did those sneaky BIR owners manage to keep that one secret?... ::) ;D ;D ;D
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Here's another classic quote from this book (talking about the base):
...the vegetables gradually reduce, releasing their moisture and flavours into the oil. (This is a BIR secret that restaurant owners would prefer you didn't know about).
So slowly cooking veg in oil releases moisture and flavour eh? How did those sneaky BIR owners manage to keep that one secret?... ::) ;D ;D ;D
Yes, I remember reading that and thinking, 'what?'.
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These are the quantities I used for the small (2 litre) version of the base (scaled from the large):
Onion 3/4 full
Cabbage handful
carrots 1/2
Red pepper 1/9
Green pepper 1/9
GG paste 4tsp
Tomatoes 1/4 tin
Salt 2 tsp
Coriander 2 tsp
Cumin 2 tsp
Asafoetida 2 tsp
Fenugreek 2 tsp
Curry powder 2 tsp
Turmeric just less than 2 tsp
Chilli pinch
Coriander leaf small handful
Oil 200ml
Water 1/2 cup
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the author was working in a ( BIR ) laugh laugh in Aberdeen , Aberdeen is shite for curries
except for mutton curries, as they excel at all things sheep related?
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my question is this ! if you think its so bad and members on here could have done better then
A : why did you buy the book
B : why on earth are you going to make the base lmfao
A. I didn't. :o
Secret Santa , have you got the book ? ???
B. Good question. I know...I emphasise, KNOW... that this base will be no better or worse than many other bases I've tried.
That said, how can I reasonably make comments if I haven't actually made it - which is what you're saying and others will be thinking, so i'll make it and I can then comment without you being able to say my comments aren't valid because I ain't made it myself! ;D
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I just made a half quantity of the big base recipe, it fitted nicely into by 10 litre stock pot. All I had to do was halve everything, I couldn't see the point in only making 2 litres.
I'm a big fan of the base, but I didn't think the Madras recipe offered anything new. I didn't add in the optional tandoori sauce but I doubt that would have made any significant difference. That BIR taste is still elusive. I'm sure once we crack the method (as we have with onion bhajis) the actual recipes will become less significant. In the book, he doesn't really reveal anything exciting or new about how to cook the curries.
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Hi
Having personally tried several of the bases on this site, I can say also that I am a big fan of this base. However, I am not saying it is better necessarily than the others on the site - it just has a different taste to the other ones I have tried and am enjoying the variety and tastes this one is giving.
Been cooking outside on the a new 8Kw gas ring and getting very pleasing results, which are closer to the BIR taste than I have ever before managed to get. To me, cooking with that extra massive volume of heat does make a difference.
Here is last nights Chicken Jalfrezi, which had excellent flavour, although needs more chilli powder than the recipe states.
Plus here is another one for silly & confusing cooking terms 'A scant handful of peppers' - WTF is a 'scant handful'?
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/afcbe98067b099b7f4f3cc605cae7a1b.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#afcbe98067b099b7f4f3cc605cae7a1b.jpg)
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looks good solar , where did you get your gas cooking ring from ?
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The author of the book sent me the following email yesterday....
Hi Mick, Hey can you please tell the boys on the forum cr0 that I have never been a member of the forum and didn't know about it until 5/7/10. I appreciate all of their comments and have answers to all of their queries. I am really flattered by all of the content on the forum and I sincerely hope that they continue contributing to the forum. I've never known a Jamie Oliver book to come under such scrutiny and I'm happy that undercover curry can stand proud and take it on the chin. its great to see that some of the forums contributors are big enough to try the recipes and give it a fair shout before they comment.Unfortunately there are some that wish they had written a book first and their sadness is all to apparent. I can be contacted directly at dave@undercovercurry.com and will reply to any question that appears on the forum as long as it is sent to this email address and my answer is placed in the forum in order to counter the original criticism. I have no intention of becoming a member of the forum but I'm happy to answer any questions you all have. Thank you all I really appreciate you all giving my book so much attention. Respect and regards to all curry fans everywhere. Oh and by the way I'm not a Scot and Aberdeen has a selection of the very best curry houses anywhere in the UK.
Cheers, Dave Loyden
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I couldn't see the point in only making 2 litres.]
Surely, the point is that it costs less, it's more manageable and there's less to waste, if you don't like it. I'll be following the SS approach of making 1/9, 10% or something like that. I don't need industrial quantities and I don't want to find storage space for a catering sized stock pot.
>I didn't add in the optional tandoori sauce but I doubt
>that would have made any significant difference.
How can you know if you didn't try it?
>I'm sure once we crack the method (as we have with onion bhajis)
>the actual recipes will become less significant.
All good recipes include the method, of course. Ingredients and method are both important, so I disagree with your logic.
>In the book, he doesn't really reveal anything
>exciting or new about how to cook the curries.
I think that's unfair.
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@ Dave you are seriously deluded if you think Aberdeen has an excellent selection of BIR standard curry houses, Dont make me laugh !!!
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The author of the book sent me the following email yesterday....
"...Unfortunately there are some that wish they had written a book first and their sadness is all to apparent..."
The only sadness Mr Loyden is that you've made such a poor attempt at it yourself. Nice little earner for a book that tells you nothing eh?
There are so many holes in it that I'm surprised the bloody thing doesn't fall apart!
What will your next book be, an undercover account of surgery perhaps where you nicely detail the start and end of the procedure but leave out the inbetween bits as we can make those up ourselves? ??? ::) ;)
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looks good solar , where did you get your gas cooking ring from ?
Hi
I got this one, thinking it would be good for wok's too: http://www.campingandcaravandirect.co.uk/Camping-Stoves/Foker-Boiling-Rings/3120-Foker-Cast-Iron-Stove/p-101-118-547/ (http://www.campingandcaravandirect.co.uk/Camping-Stoves/Foker-Boiling-Rings/3120-Foker-Cast-Iron-Stove/p-101-118-547/)
However the pan supports are very far apart, so I have to use a grill rack over them to hold the pan.
Probably should have got this one: http://www.campingandcaravandirect.co.uk/Camping-Stoves/Foker-Boiling-Rings/3140-Foker-QLS-Enamelled-Stove/p-101-118-549/ (http://www.campingandcaravandirect.co.uk/Camping-Stoves/Foker-Boiling-Rings/3140-Foker-QLS-Enamelled-Stove/p-101-118-549/)
The volume of heat these things chuck out it incredible! but somehow quite easy to cook on.
Cheers
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I just made the madras for lunch.
Good points:
Nice consistency
Oil separated well
Bad points:
Incredibly sour.
Lacked normal BIR taste and aroma.
Ok, when I tasted the curry and thought it was too sour, I should have stopped and not added the suggested slice of lemon.
It's difficult to know what exactly is wrong with this curry but, as it stands, it ranks as one of the worst Madrases I've made, and I've made a few.
Strangely as I ate it it did grow on me slightly but it isn't like any Madras I've had. The biggest problem is not knowing what quantities of spices should be used and it's going to make comparisons with other people's efforts almost impossible.
It could be just that, as gazman said, Aberdeen has poor BIRs and this is an accurate copy of a poor example of a madras.
Without quantities I guess I'll never know. (EDIT: he does give quantities in a very unnecessarily round about way, fortunately my guess was close enough!)
Oh and by the way Dave Loyden, tandoori masala AND tandoori marinade AND tandoori masala in the tom puree...no mate, it's a madras not CTM! ::)
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What did you think of the base, Secret Santa? Similar to others on this site? I must admit, your damning report is making me question whether I should bother or not.
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I couldn't see the point in only making 2 litres.]
Surely, the point is that it costs less, it's more manageable and there's less to waste, if you don't like it. I'll be following the SS approach of making 1/9, 10% or something like that. I don't need industrial quantities and I don't want to find storage space for a catering sized stock pot.
>I didn't add in the optional tandoori sauce but I doubt
>that would have made any significant difference.
How can you know if you didn't try it?
>I'm sure once we crack the method (as we have with onion bhajis)
>the actual recipes will become less significant.
All good recipes include the method, of course. Ingredients and method are both important, so I disagree with your logic.
>In the book, he doesn't really reveal anything
>exciting or new about how to cook the curries.
I think that's unfair.
If Satan ever asks me to recommend some good legal council I'll send him your way!
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What did you think of the base, Secret Santa? Similar to others on this site? I must admit, your damning report is making me question whether I should bother or not.
The base is, as expected, no worse and no better than many others on this forum. The copious bhaji frying that I did to get the spiced oil was wasted time as the potency of the oil does not survive the transition to the base.
I would say give this one a go though as it is marginally different. The cabbage comes through and the method of reducing the veg is interesting, if ultimately unnecessary (although it took 2 hrs and not 45 mins as suggested!).
The use of asafoetida in the base which some people have mentioned is, again as expected, a damp squib. It doesn't really have much of an effect for two reasons:
1. although the amount is large by most standards it is, in fact, an unremarkable amount because it is mostly additives rather than pure hing.
2. It is used incorrectly. Hing (resin or powdered) must be fried to achieve the best from it. Here it is just thrown in with all the other stuff
As for the madras, I am biased against a lemony/sour flavour so I really shouldn't have added the extra lemon slice, that said though it was sour before the addition!
The quantity of tandoori masala is, in my opinion, too much for a madras. It pops up in three places, in the mix powder, in the tomato puree and, if you choose to add it, in the tandoori marinade.
I don't know what the curry is but it's like no madras I've ever had.
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Maybe we should take a trip up to that famour BIR in Aberdeen he worked in lol
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My "Undercover Curry" turned up yesterday and I spent some time reading it
I think the book is a welcome addition to my Curry Books
I believe they are genuine recipes, although differing from my experience
I like the "dipping" instructions
That is really accurate
That's how the chefs cook
For the recipes, I posted on this site, I tried to convert these measurements to something more conventional
But no BIR chef uses a tea spoon or desert spoon for cooking.
Dave repeatedly mentions tandoori masala, used in the spicing
I did find one place that used that, although generally it is uncommon round here
It?s used for a few tikka starter meals though.
His balance of ginger garlic puree is interesting
I know that the bhajee oil for curry gravy, is done
I reported that one a while ago
Actually, I found it was more often, chip oil
I find the idea of asafoetida in the base, interesting
Some of the best curries I had, had an underlying taste of poppadoms
Asafoetida is the main spice of poppadoms
So if these curries had a curry gravy with oil from cooking poppadoms, they would have had asafoetida in.
I won?t know till I try
His special tomato puree plus extras is new to me
Round here, it?s just straight White Tower Tomato puree from the Can
But, I?ll give it a go
He?s right about the use of frozen vegetables in vegetable curries
This is very common, although potatoes are normally pre cooked separately, for Bombay Potato and Vindaloo use
But maybe this is not a universal practice
Vindaloo with vinegar?
I know three chefs quite well
None of them cook the same recipe Vindaloo
So why not vinegar?
I like his idea of too much spice ruining the flavour and salt softening the onions for bhajees.
All in all, I?m very pleased, and have already had ?10 worth of entertainment from the book.
I don?t see how the recipes can fail to produce enjoyable curries
Perhaps some will be exactly what we are after!!!
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I don?t see how the recipes can fail to produce enjoyable curries
Perhaps you should actually make one first haldi before making comments like that.
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A nice , well balanced and open-minded view Haldi. I'll be interested to hear your views once you've tried some of the recipes from the book 8)
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George,
You've raised several significant negative points about the book. But what positives do you see? You've obviously got the book. Have you actually tried any of the recipes from it yet? If so, what do you think of them? I'd be interested to hear what you think about them once you've tried them.
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SS,
You know, in all the years that you've been here, I've rarely seen you post something positive about someone else's recipes and efforts.
What's YOUR idea of a good madras (or any other) recipe please? Please can you post it so that we can all try it and provide YOU with some feedback on YOUR recipe?
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The author of the book sent me the following email yesterday....
Unfortunately there are some that wish they had written a book first and their sadness is all to apparent.
And aint THAT the truth. Unfortunately, there are one or two amongst us that only see the negatives in other's efforts and seem to counter their envy and jealousy with negativity :-\
Good luck to you for getting off your ar*e and actually giving it a go.... 8)
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The problem I have with this whole thread is that, unless you have the book, you can't try any of the recipes. The value of discussing it is therefore severely limited to the few members who have the book (unless people start being far more specific about the recipes).
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The problem I have with this whole thread is that, unless you have the book, you can't try any of the recipes. The value of discussing it is therefore severely limited to the few members who have the book (unless people start being far more specific about the recipes).
Are you going to buy the book, CA?
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If I can get it here...it's only 8 quid (there), after all, and, as Haldi says, I'm sure it's a worthwhile (and cheap) addition to the curry book collection.
Alternatively, I'm happy to give the base (and recipes) a bash if someone could elaborate on the details......I can't really deal with "1/9" of this, "a handfull" of that and "just less than a teaspoon", of this, and "a pinch"of that....and "a curry spoon" of this!?, etc, etc.
By the way, do the onion bhajis have potatoes in them? Just curious... :P
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I think those who make the curries, if they start off with a negative attitude then it'll never come out good.
CA, you've made some very good points here!
No spuds in the Bhaji's!
And I think some of us on here are chasing a goal that will never be gotten. Its a shame but some peoples attitudes on here detract from the whole idea behind the site, attitudes like these tend to ruin forums and dissuade others from posting or even joining with their ideas through fear of ridicule. This thread has changed my whole view of the site unfortunately, I know I dont post much but I read a lot, and what I've read here off a couple of members sums up what others have mentioned to me.
I'm still positive about the book, and I expect to have many more great results with it ;D
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I think those who make the curries, if they start off with a negative attitude then it'll never come out good.
Absolutely TN! You must be aware of the concept of curry karma? Negativity just oozes out of your soul and straight into the curry! ::)
Its a shame but some peoples attitudes on here detract from the whole idea behind the site, attitudes like these tend to ruin forums and dissuade others from posting or even joining with their ideas through fear of ridicule
Surely you should direct this to CA in a PM? It seems unfair to the poor lad to say this in public, especially as he's about to have another relapse ;)
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Surely you should direct this to CA in a PM? It seems unfair to the poor lad to say this in public, especially as he's about to have another relapse ;)
Hmmm, funny that, cos I (nor Tyenoodle) didn't actually say who I (or he) was referring to. But, if the cap fits hey SS? ;)
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Get back in your box CA. The forum was rolling along quite nicely until you reared your warped little head again.
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Get back in your box CA. The forum was rolling along quite nicely until you reared your warped little head again.
Of course, you (and one or two others here) want to spew forth your negativity and vitriol unhindered SS...hahaha, so sorry mate, no can do ::)
So where IS your madras (or curry base, or any other) recipe then SS? You've only been here for 6 years, or so, after all :-\
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Ok, when I tasted the curry and thought it was too sour, I should have stopped and not added the suggested slice of lemon.
That really is the most non-sensical thing you can ever do when cooking. You are cooking as if painting by numbers. I used to make Thai Green Curries which never really turned out well. I managed to spend some time watching and helping in a Thai kitchen and learnt that recipes are just guidelines. They just kept tasting their efforts and adding a bit of fish sauce or a bit of sugar to get the correct balance. I now cook quite a good Thai Green Curry as a result of following their lead. Some lemons are bigger than others. Some more sour. Some fish sauces more salty even withing the same brands. Some sugars sweeter etc etc. I hope I don't sound too patronizing but from your statement above, you needed to be reminded. ;)
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Hey Ader1 , you got a good recipe then for a thai curry plz ?
Thanks in advance
Garry
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I hope I don't sound too patronizing but from your statement above, you needed to be reminded.
Haven't you misinterpreted what SS said? He was effectively tasting the dish as he went along, just like you correctly pointed out is a worthwhile approach.
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Hey Ader1 , you got a good recipe then for a thai curry plz ?
Thanks in advance
Garry
Will do in the Thai section in the next few days.
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thanks in advance , and also good rice to go with it lol
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Hey everyone Cory Ander is back! I've missed the CA vs the SS and George tag team bickering. It always brings a smile to my face and makes me want to post. I'm sure it's not great for the forum, but on the slow summer days it is great entertainment.
Regarding his Bhaji recipe, it's a poor one. No potatoes is his first mistake, then softening the onions with salt is a big no-no. Anyone who does that will end up with mud pie bhajis rather than crispy cooked through ones. I think he also makes the batter then coats the onions with it (I might be wrong as I'm at work at the moment). This is also not right in my (and the IG's) opinion. The method of spicing the onions, coating with egg, then adding the flour until sitcky works much better. His cooking method was better using a low temperature for 12 minutes rather than some recipes that suggest 180 degrees for 5 minutes.
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Hi TN
Did you get the onion sauce sorted? I had good results by starting it on the top of the stove then sealing the pan with tin foil and letting the sauce cook in a very low oven for about 3 hours, some of the onions dissolved and thickened the sauce, the end result was fabulous.
The vindaloo sauce is amazing, used it instead of tomato puree in a jalfrezi, fantastic.
CA, the book just lists several 'core' preparations and sauces and the 'recipes' are really just different combinations of such sauces etc., so it's difficult to explain them without reading the book, surely Down Under Amazon would get it for you, it's worth trying anyway, it's not perfect or the whole answer but what is?
Cheers
CoR
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COR, I didnt use up all my onion sauce, I made quite a bit of it. I think I know where I went wrong;
Not sealing the pan enough
Being a bit lazy blending the gravy so It ended up a bit 'grainy'.
I will try again though, next week back onto early shifts so got a bit of afternoon to play with..
I'm collecting red chillies and drying them to make the vindaloo sauce ;D
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I've made the small base from the book
I compared it to a real sample base, from a good takeaway
David's is not so salty, not quite so full flavoured but less gingery
The spicing seems right
All in all, a good workable result
I didn't expect a comparison to be identical, but was curious
I'm making a sag aloo with it for Saturday, and will report back
I might try a mixed veg curry too
That asoefateda absolutely stinks
Some of the gravy boiled onto the stove and I can't get the smell off
After cooking, it mellows right down
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I compared it to a real sample base, from a good takeaway
Hi Haldi
Just out of interest, are there any bases on this site that you have tried that you think are closer to the one from the restaurant?
Many thanks
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I DO intend to make you accountable for all your negative comments and scathing remarks.
If anyone still doubted that you've lost the plot CA then here's proof positive.
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Why's that SS? Do you feel that you shouldn't be held accountable for your comments then? Now wouldn't that just make life fine and dandy for you! ::)
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Guys, Guys, Guys......................
Come on, we are all adults here. This is a great website and I think we should all call a truce and stop right here.
Lets not have personalities get in the way, lets all just bite our tongues and little and move on.
I've just recommended this site to a real good friend of mine in New Zealand, but if he comes on here and reads all this animosity, he certainly won't join and it will probably be the same for a lot of other new comers too.
Let's get back to producing good recipes, sharing our thoughts with a positive attitude, and just because it doesn't suit your personal tastes, it might suit others.
As they say in life, if you have nothing good to say, then don't say it!!!!
Otherwise this website will become a "ghost town", which none of us wants.....
Gentlemen and Ladies, lets please move on...... :)
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I've made the small base from the book
Haldi did you make the small base as given in the book? If so it is very different in ingredient proportions from the large base and I wonder how much value that has?
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I personally feel that your remarks have been largely negative about the book, George, and well out of balance. I've asked you for your positives on the book and, so far, they haven't been forthcoming. So, to add some balance to your views, would you mind indicating any positives that you see please?
Here are some positive aspects:
1. Unlike Pat Chapman's rip-off publications, the Undercover book is 95% about BIR curries, before he goes and spoils it with a chapter about the questionable health benefits of herbs.
2. It has a well illustrated cover and, for the discounted price of GBP8, is fair value but not such good value as New Curry Secret, I feel.
3. The most important positives will be if any of the recipes prove, by widespread agreement, to be real winners but - at present, it's too early to tell.
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Just out of interest, are there any bases on this site that you have tried that you think are closer to the one from the restaurant?
Many thanks
I've lost track of what's what
There are some very good bases here, but this one is very pungent
It is different, the oil is particularly strong
Haldi did you make the small base as given in the book? If so it is very different in ingredient proportions from the large base and I wonder how much value that has?
I made it as written, I know the scaling is not exact, but tried it anyhow
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Well, I made saag aloo and mixed vegetable curry using this base, and it was really good
I also had a bought veg vindaloo on the plate
I have to say that the bought curry was the best, but these new recipes are very, very presentable.
They match the standard of curries I have bought
In fact, they surpass some
Critisism of the curries:-
The new curries have excellent texture and balance of oil
They smell really good too
But the general flavour isn't sweet enough and misses an extra yummy flavour
The sweetness could be overcome, by extra salt into the base at the start of cooking.
The yummy flavour, well I guess we all know, you can't really get that at home
This was only the first attempts
I'm sure they can be tweeked to individuals tastes
I wish I had read this book years ago, there really is no other book like it
Something like this could have been made out of the Ashoka recipes.
That would have been good too.
I like the idea of it being in a book, rather than print outs from my pc
It's miles closer to BIR than The Curry Secret
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Nicely put Haldi I have the book and agree with everything you say, wish I'd had this year's ago.
Matt
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Hi Haldi
Try the onion sauce, I blitz half and keep half 'whole' so I can vary textures so to speak, and try about a tbs along with the tomato and/or g&g pastes and see what you think then.
Does seem to be a good book, I particularly like the way you are encouraged to play around with the recipes to achieve results that suit your own expectations.
Cheers
CoR
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Try the onion sauce, I blitz half and keep half 'whole' so I can vary textures so to speak, and try about a tbs along with the tomato and/or g&g pastes and see what you think then.
Cheers
CoR
I will get round to that
That's something I've not seen in any place round here, but it's rather intrigueing
I'm going to give the pilau rice a bash too
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Nicely put Haldi I have the book and agree with everything you say, wish I'd had this year's ago.
Matt
Hi Matt
Would you tell me what you think this book has taught you that you couldn't have found on this forum?
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I have to say that the bought curry was the best, but these new recipes are very, very presentable.
They match the standard of curries I have bought
In fact, they surpass some
I'm genuinely surprised at that haldi. Either I've ballsed up in making the base or madras (or both), or we are looking for very very different things in our curies because my opinion was just the opposite.
But the general flavour isn't sweet enough and misses an extra yummy flavour
But isn't that always the way? In other words this has produced nothing new. It doesn't make a good BIR curry.
It's miles closer to BIR than The Curry Secret
Based only on the madras I have so far made I would have to disagree. It's a fair while since I made the KD base and madras, but I believe it was better than this version by a good margin.
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That asoefateda absolutely stinks
Some of the gravy boiled onto the stove and I can't get the smell off
After cooking, it mellows right down
To me haldi it mellows down so much that it is not noticeable in the final product.
Which brand of asafoetida did you use?
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Hi SS
Sorry to puzzle you
The hing I used is by Vandevi
I got it in a local Asian shop when I was trying Indian home style cooking
It's used a lot in that
Here's a link for it
http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Indian-Food-Vandevi-Asafoetida-Powder-Hing.html (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Indian-Food-Vandevi-Asafoetida-Powder-Hing.html)
There is some truth that the book offers nothing that isn't on this site, already.
But things are lost here, where this is neatly presented together
There is a temptation here to "mix and match"
With this book you create from start to finish using his recipes.
For instance the pre cooked veg were either simply boiled or were frozen.
Normally I would spicy pre cook
This is where you could over do a curry and lose some of it?s simple taste
I have certainly been guilty of that
I mentioned before, that the Ashoka recipes, could have been a book
And that could have been a very good book too
I?ve not tried Dave?s Madras recipe, perhaps I will be disappointed too
Yes the curries weren?t quite as good, as the bought one, but they were really close
I believe it?s the oil
I reckon that the oil I used, isn?t as good as the old oil a restaurant would achieve
The Curry Secret base gives a very bland boiled veg tasting gravy
This new base gives a heavily flavoured oil and a big aroma
The spices are very well cooked
Tonight, one of my kids, reheated some of this new curry I made
You should have smelt it
This stuff really has aroma, it did smell like you were in a BIR
I?ve just tried the pilau rice
That, I?m afraid, was not as expected
Under cooked and lacking aroma
There are definitely better recipes here for that
Maybe I?ve just had a lucky start with the curries
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The hing
It's used a lot in that [Indian home style cooking]
No it's not! It's used rarely, and sparingly in Indian homestyle cooking. Mostly it's used to as an aid to relieve flatulence in lentil dishes, and sometimes to add a slightly 'oniony' flavour to dishes that don't contain onions.
There is no precedent using it in the quantities that this book seems to suggest.
Gary
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Hi Matt
Would you tell me what you think this book has taught you that you couldn't have found on this forum?
I obviously can't speak for Matt but, from what little I've seen, I suggest the following are just some of the things, presented in the book, that have not been presented or discussed much (if at all) on this forum. As such, they offer intriguing alternative insights into what potentially goes on in BIRs. And, as Haldi says, the ideas are all neatly wrapped up in one book:
- cabbage, asafoetida (large amounts) and bhaji oil in the base (perhaps the latter has been discussed most of all)
- garlic/ginger puree in the ratio of 1/3rd to 2/3rd in favour of ginger
- onion, vindaloo and patia sauces (I find these the most intriguing of all)
- addition of tandoori marinade in non CTM dishes
- making your own yoghurt
- modified tomato puree
All may have been discussed here, but not in any great depth. I am not aware of anyone on the forum regularly using (or presenting) any of these ideas?
And I presume there may be more, similar "novel" ideas, in the book?
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No it's not! It's used rarely, and sparingly in Indian homestyle cooking. Mostly it's used to as an aid to relieve flatulence in lentil dishes, and sometimes to add a slightly 'oniony' flavour to dishes that don't contain onions.
There is no precedent using it in the quantities that this book seems to suggest.
Gary
Hi Gary by a "lot" I mean in a lot of recipes I don't mean quantity, I mean frequency
Check out "an indian housewife's recipe book" and Madhur's books
They have a "pinch" of asafoetida added all over the place!!
Particularly on the vegetable recipes
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Hi Everyone,
I haven't read all of this thread so may have missed it, but has anyone actually made the large quantity of base from this book yet?
If so, what was it like?
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Hi Matt
Would you tell me what you think this book has taught you that you couldn't have found on this forum?
I obviously can't speak for Matt but, from what little I've seen, I suggest the following are just some of the things, presented in the book, that have not been presented or discussed much (if at all) on this forum. As such, they offer intriguing alternative insights into what potentially goes on in BIRs. And, as Haldi says, the ideas are all neatly wrapped up in one book:
- cabbage, asafoetida (large amounts) and bhaji oil in the base (perhaps the latter has been discussed most of all)
- garlic/ginger puree in the ratio of 1/3rd to 2/3rd in favour of ginger
- onion, vindaloo and patia sauces (I find these the most intriguing of all)
- addition of tandoori marinade in non CTM dishes
- making your own yoghurt
- modified tomato puree
All may have been discussed here, but not in any great depth. I am not aware of anyone on the forum regularly using (or presenting) any of these ideas?
And I presume there may be more, similar "novel" ideas, in the book?
Thanks for covering those points CA, I would also add the use of ground fenugreek seeds in the base.
No methi in the main curry dishes, no spice mix just pre made Rajah is recommended, plus use of Tandoori massala in nearly every dish.
Minmal spicing in the dishes.
I'm sure there are some others I've missed.
However I would say that with the knowledge gained on this site it has helped me appreciate what the author is trying to explain and achieve.
Matt
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Hi Everyone,
I haven't read all of this thread so may have missed it, but has anyone actually made the large quantity of base from this book yet?
If so, what was it like?
Hi 976bar , last weekend I made 9ltrs of the Undercover Curry Base the aroma around the house was as near a BIR I have ever had :o As Secret Santa suggested I may have over done the amount of Hing as I used ' Whole Hing ' which I had to grind myself and following an email sent to Dave Loydens the Author of the book he confirmed it is the Hing in the Yellow containers ( Vandevi type ) which is mixed with - rice flour,gum arabic,turmeric, and wheat flour.
The Curries I made using the base were a little disappointing tasting a little bitter but this could of been the recipe I used which did not suit the already Curry like base , the next time I will follow the Madras recipe in the book and see if it's an improvement.
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Roughly,how many onions are used in the scaled down version of the base sauce ie the 2 litre pot version
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Roughly,how many onions are used in the scaled down version of the base sauce ie the 2 litre pot version
Any size pot it's 3/4 of the pot , depends on the size of the Onions as to how many ;)
The book says ' roughly chop the Onions ' , I think I cut my Onions into 4 and it took a fair few.
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Roughly,how many onions are used in the scaled down version of the base sauce ie the 2 litre pot version
As emin-j says, the finer you chop the onions the more it takes but I'd say get yourself about 2kgs that way you should have plenty left to do the onion sauce as well, highly recommended!
Cheers
CoR
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If you fill any pot 3/4 full what measurement do you use for the spice setc -the amount for the 2 litre version or do you upscale if say you are using a pan somewhere between 2 litres and 18 litres as I do not want to overspice/underspice the base.
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Hi guys, For me and anybody else just joining or returning to the site could you tell me what is the book you are all posting about? sorry but I have been reading back and cant find it yet. PP
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See http://www.undercovercurry.com/id2.html (http://www.undercovercurry.com/id2.html) for authors page. Can buy book from Amazon
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Its good, I cooked 4 curries last night and everyone was happy. The jalfrezi is pretty much what I've been looking for..
Coupled with a few a few hints and tips from here of course :)
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I have now made 6 portions of Curry using this base and have decided to ditch the remaining 6ish litres :o I don't think the recipe was at fault but rather the used oil that I used from the deep fat fryer :-\ the resultant Curries have had a acidic flavour and a bit sickly so am for the moment returning to the CA base and Curry recipe . I still value the Book and recipes and will try the base again with either a Spiced or even plain vegetable Oil.
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What do you think was wrong with the oil? Have you been cooking other things in it (e.g. chips etc.)
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Well chums,
I wanted to back track on an old base recipe I had
So I made it this Saturday, and cooked a few curries with it
This was a genuine copy recipe, of a personally witnessed base
And I tell you all, it wasn't a patch on the base from the undercover book!!
Maybe it's because it had no ground fenugreek seeds or perhaps it's the lack of asofaeteda
I don't know
But I'm going to make the book base again
It really gave close results in flavour and aroma
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What do you think was wrong with the oil? Have you been cooking other things in it (e.g. chips etc.)
Hi Ramirez , yes the fryer is used for Chips and Bhaji's only , possibly the Starch in the Chips / Oil causes the acidic flavour :-\
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I decided to bite the bullet and ordered this book. I was worried that it would have to ship from the UK and that I would be gouged on shipping. To my surprise there was a local Toronto Amazon reseller (or whatever they are) that had it in stock.
Does anyone who has the book notice any obvious errors? I recall seeing that there are two base recipes and the scale was off. Anything else to be aware of?
Thx,
Josh
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I decided to bite the bullet and ordered this book
Thx,
Josh
Josh, the book's only about a tenner
Even if you don't like the recipes, it has some very amusing anecdotes
Sometimes I have spent hours making a base and curries
And at the end I feel like I wasted my time
I didn't feel that with this book, and the curries microwave back brilliantly
The aroma is amazing
I think we take this all too seriously
It's been forgotten, that this is actually fun
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Does anyone who has the book notice any obvious errors? I recall seeing that there are two base recipes and the scale was off. Anything else to be aware of?
Thx,
Josh
Hi Josh
Haven't tried the huge base (just not got room to make it, never mind store it!) but the small version works fine for me, in fact I would agree entirely with Haldi's findings.
I'm into my fourth batch so far and find it smells bang on and cooks really well when you do the final dish so don't worry about the apparent mismatch, scaling up and down isn't always precise.
The type of cabbage seems to make quite a big difference, not sure why but it seems so.
Have fun trying out the different sauces, interesting he lists them but doesn't use them in his recipes, it's that kind of book!
Regards
CoR
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That Saag Aloo looks very appetising indeed. :)
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That Saag Aloo looks very appetising indeed. :)
Hi Axe
This one? - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4776.msg45944#msg45944 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4776.msg45944#msg45944)
Well, if so, then probably a little too much oil in my attempt, but I recommend it. It is very nice indeed!
Cheers
Cheers
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It is very nice indeed!
Cheers
It was this picture that inspired me to buy the book & make that dish
And yes!!
It's fantastic
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That Saag Aloo looks very appetising indeed. :)
Hi Axe
This one? - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4776.msg45944#msg45944 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4776.msg45944#msg45944)
Well, if so, then probably a little too much oil in my attempt, but I recommend it. It is very nice indeed!
Cheers
Cheers
Yes that one, sorry I somehow missed it was on Page 7. ::) Seems I have some catching up to do.
:)
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I decided to bite the bullet and ordered this book
Thx,
Josh
Josh, the book's only about a tenner
Even if you don't like the recipes, it has some very amusing anecdotes
Sometimes I have spent hours making a base and curries
And at the end I feel like I wasted my time
I didn't feel that with this book, and the curries microwave back brilliantly
The aroma is amazing
I think we take this all too seriously
It's been forgotten, that this is actually fun
Bang on! I had a garage full this weekend while I was cooking on the burner, making big flames and stuff.. and though "yeah, this is fun.."
Even better when everyone loved the food.. Just about managed to get myself a bowlfull, and there was me thinking I'd done too much.. ;D
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So far, I've made the following recipes from this book:
Tomato Puree
Tandoori Marinade
Patia Sauce
Vindaloo Sauce
Chicken Rogan Josh
Chicken Tikka Masala
Chicken Patia
Curry Gravy (small-scale batch):
- 1kg red onions
- 100g carrots
- 100g green cabbage
- 100g green capsicum
- 100g red capsicum
- 25g ginger puree
- 20g garlic puree
- 200g tinned Roma tomatoes (with juice)
- 1 dsp salt
- 1 dsp coriander powder
- 1 dsp cummin powder
- 1 dsp asafoetida powder
- 1 dsp fenugreek powder
- 1 dsp curry powder ("Eastern" brand)
- 1 dsp turmeric powder
- 30g coriander roots
- 200ml canola oil (fresh)
- 200ml water (plus more for second stage of cooking)
I made the small batch version of the base (rather than scaling down, strictly pro-rata, the big batch version), as written above, and largely as specified in the book. I calculated that it takes about 1kg of onions. I did this 'cos Haldi made the small batch version, and liked it, and SS scaled down the big batch version (strictly pro-rata) and didn't seem to like it much.
I think the base is really good. It gives a very pronounced and enduring "BIR smell" to the curries - it stinks the house out for days. I reckon it's all that asafoetida (and maybe the powdered fenugreek) in it. You can't really taste it, but you can sure smell it. I'm not sure that the cabbage adds anything; I can't really detect it in the cooked base.
I didn't use bhaji oil, just fresh. I understand and accept that using bhaji oil (or other reclaimed/spiced infused oil) may very well improve things.
It's also nice and sweet, probably partly due to the initial stewing of the veggies in their own juices. Be careful not to burn it though! It is easy to get a burnt mass on the bottom of the pan.
I also used red onions (I got a big bag full, very cheap, so used them) and slow cooked for over 2 hours (the carrots were otherwise undercooked and hard).
Next time, I'll add more water to the initial cook. Or maybe do it all in one go. I'm not convinced about the two stage cooking process. The risk is, as it stands, that you burn the veggies and spices in the first cook.
I hardly got any oil separation in the second cook (I cooked it for well over an hour). There, again, I rarely do. And I don't really care. I think the oil separation is a furfee. BIRs get it 'cos their base simmers for hour upon hour.
The tandoori marinade is just that. Bog standard tandoori marinade (typically used to make tikka). I did add it to the madras and it was OK. I'm not sure it's required or even desirable though. I tried it with and without. Both madras versions were tasty. No "magic" there though (in the marinade, that is). I think it's a little peculiar to add it to all curries (though it is presented as an option in the book).
I think all the "sauces" are a little strange and I'm not convinced they add a lot to the curries. The "patia sauce" seems, to me, to resemble what some from Scotland seem to seek regarding "pakora sauce". The patia, I made, was certainly sweet and sour, though it contains too many sugary ingredients for my liking. But the patia was certainly edible and enjoyable. Be careful not to burn the patia sauce too....so much sugar in there.
So, the bottom line, for me, is great base, and great smelling ("BIR-like"...mostly from the base, I feel) and enjoyable curries.
Taste wise, the curries are nothing particularly out of the ordinary (though I accept that using bhaji/reclaimed spice infused oil may improve this). The dishes are arguably peculiar (with some "unusual" combination of ingredients) but they are nice, tasty and moreish nevertheless.
Even the CTM is tasty and moreish. It is really strange (i.e. ingredients and method) and nothing like any CTM I've ever eaten before.....though I knew that before even trying it. The fruit cocktail (plus juices) does add some nice sweetness to the dish without it being overtly sugary.
I find the writing style of the book rather imprecise and muddled (rather different from the norm and and arguably more interesting because of it). For example, he talks about having identified that garlic is used in the tomato puree but then proceeds to specify using ginger powder instead (I used garlic powder). Maybe that's just a typo? But there are other, similar, examples too. It almost looks as if the book was written and published in a bit of a hurry to me.
I think it would be far more helpful, to readers, to state precise quantities of ingredients (e.g. weights and volumes in recognised measuring units rather than "dips", "scant dips", etc). His recipes are otherwise open to far too much interpretation and are difficult to reproduce with any reasonable degree of accuracy. The book would probably suit more experienced curry cooks, than beginners, accordingly.
All in all, a good book, a good buy, a welcome addition to the collection, a great base....and good, tasty, moreish curries. There are some interesting and different aspects to explore, such as the large addition of asafoetida in the base.
Here are some pics of some of the curries I made (some would undoubtedly prefer their sauce thicker. No problem, simply cook them for longer):
Chicken Rogan Josh:
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/98628ad81e7fc7abdfa2efdc1e1fb3c4.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#98628ad81e7fc7abdfa2efdc1e1fb3c4.jpg)
Chicken Madras:
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/224cd90325e2cce5f08eceef6aeea505.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#224cd90325e2cce5f08eceef6aeea505.jpg)
Chicken Patia:
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/d2c47bb0d2d7c09e356e98dbeed91b3f.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#d2c47bb0d2d7c09e356e98dbeed91b3f.jpg)
Chicken Patia (left) and Chicken Madras (right):
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/d5b203841e389b9e7dceef04b3e4498c.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#d5b203841e389b9e7dceef04b3e4498c.jpg)
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Nice looking curries HK, I may give that base a tryout for my next batch. Cheers.
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Hi HK
I have cooked the small version of the base about 3 times now and find it excellent.
I use the Rajah curry powder for the dishes rather than making up a "spice mix" are you doing the same.
Matt
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Just got the book in the post and still to have a look. Great pics HK thanks for taking the time, isn't it fantastic to be able to recreate Indian food like this and you are sure to be an inspiration to the casual visitor to our site who just needs a wee nudge to do the same.PP
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Hi HK
Good looking curries there, nice one.
Agree pretty much about the book, I don't think any of the celeb chefs have much to worry about from Undercover Dave but it's a good read and quite informative, you never know he might even be 'on the level'.
Done about 4 or 5 batches of the small scale base now and I've found that although you don't actually taste cabbage in the finished base, the type of cabbage seems to make quite a difference to the colour and texture of the base, I prefer white type cabbage to the savoy stuff, anyone else think the same?
Have you tried the Vindaloo Sauce yet? Pure rocket fuel, brilliant!
Hi Matt
Tried the Rajah Madras Masala, it's OK but I reckon I'll go back to doing my own spice mix, either the BE mix or Axe's IG work well for me.
Cheers
CoR
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HK's pictures look amazing
I've not cooked from it recently
But I can't wait to do more
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Hi HK
Pictures look fantastic, I`ll be ordering this book soon to try some of the recipes out. Much criticism has been said over this book on certain recipes, but surely that`s the reason we use these curry making websites?" to try and get a close to the BIR recipes as we can.? and make positive suggestions as to make them better? not to slag people off for trying to assist in this forum.
CM
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I have just finished reading right through the 30 pages here. I would like to thank everyone for making it a compelling read though there is a fair amount of disturbing negativity. I have yet to cook from the book but in my opinion it is an excellent read for a tenner. I have every confidence in cooking from it given the confirmations from those who have cooked recipes to the letter, I feel it's only fair to comment when that is done. When so many jump to dismiss inside information without actually following in detail a recipe it spoils this wonderful site.
I also firmly believe given my extensive travel experience and over 30 years of cooking experimentation in search of the perfect BIR meals that there is significant differences regionally never mind internationally. So to dismiss any Madras from a genuine source or any other dish just because it doesn't read like or even taste like local examples is silly.
The book allows us to cook a whole range of dishes from one source, just like other options on the site including The Ashoka posts but they get split up and lost. I wish we could keep genuine Sourced BIR recipes in their own section. Bye the way the Chef from the Ashoka gave me permission to post them for our site only and not for publishing in a book. If we kept them and others together we would have mini books right here.
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I've had the book for a couple of weeks now. I decided to make a few dishes and give an honest opinion on the results. I made the base, a Madras, a Vindaloo, pilau, naan, and CTM.
The base was easily the most time-consuming I have ever made. I made it completely to spec with the single exception being that I did not have asafoetida on hand. I would appreciate thoughts from others on how important (or not) this ingredient is. I made the bhaji oil per spec, as well as the garlic/ginger paste, tomato paste, tandoori marinade, and vindaloo paste. The lack of a true specific measurement system made the whole process more challenging than usual. I realize that BIR chefs do not measure teaspoons, veg weight, etc, but I would have preferred more specific measurements than the dipping system, although its certainly more true to BIR practice.
The base took forever to cook. I used the full-size recipe in a large stockpot. Cooking on lowest heat, meant that the base never got to boil. I had to crank it up to start the simmer process and then put it back to lowest heat. After the first hour, it was clear to me that the veg was not yet fully cooked. It took close to another hour for the veg to be sufficiently cooked. After blitzing and adding water, it took about an hour longer than specified for the oil to separate - but it did separate and give me a finished base that wasn't unlike the many bases I have made from CR0. So far so good, just a little (a lot) time consuming.
Madras - the Madras was good. I personally do not think the tandoori masala belongs in this dish. Its part of the tomato paste, the dipping, and I used the optional step of adding a little tandoori marinade (again without a measurement recommendation to go by). A decent Madras for sure, but too much tandoori masala for my taste.
Vindaloo - I made the Vindaloo paste, but strangely enough I can't see anywhere in the book where its used in a main dish. :-\ I took a flyer and decided to add the Vindaloo paste to the Vindaloo dish. In my opinion, a Vindaloo should have more differentiation from the Madras beyond just heat level. The Vindaloo paste provides this. I used about a chef's spoon (again had no measurement to go by). This was by far my favourite dish, but again the tandoori masala did not belong.
Pilau - it was OK, but not as good as the usual pilau I use (Bruce Edwards original - not 2nd edition - pilau recipe).
Naan - the naan was actually pretty decent, and close to the formulation I use. I used my own method for cooking the finished naan.
Chicken Tikka - the tikka marinade was similar to many others I've tried from this site. There are better tikka recipes available here IMO.
CTM - I can see why the author didn't consider it a curry, as this one uses no base. It was a reasonably tasty dish, but it was not IMO a CTM I've had from a BIR before. I actually thought the pureed sultanas and fruit cocktail had a very nice taste. I might consider adding some of this to my usual CTM and see how it tastes. This recipe needed curry base.
Will I use these recipes going forward? Probably not. I think my usual Madras and CTM are better than these recipes. I may adopt the Vindaloo paste, as a way to differentiate the Vindaloo from a hotter Madras. The base is too time-consuming. CA's, Razors, BE etc all produce equal or better curries. The book itself was worth the buy, and the dipping system is most likely spot on BIR practice. An interesting and worthwhile experiment overall.
-- Josh
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Josh,
Many thanks for the feedback on this. I was about to make the base from this book, but if it's not any better than CA's, Razor's, SNS or any others given the time it takes to produce, then I might just stick to what I am doing already. Do you think that the addition of Asofoetida would have made any difference?
I do like the sound of the Vindaloo paste though and will most definitely try this. I also like CA's versions of curries and make them most of the time, but I also do find they taste pretty similar, given that they almost all use the same spice mix with just a few variants. No disrespect to CA, he has bought this site and curries to a new level with his hard work. Thank you for this CA!! :)
Has anyone tried any of Mark's (from Australia) dishes yet? If so what did you think?
Mark, I would love to see some pictures of your final curries please :)
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Josh, Thanks too for a full report. One of the things that stands out from others efforts above is the smell created by this base. Can you comment on this and whether the lack of Asofoetida is significant in this regard. As smell has a big impact on our taste buds you mat be walking away from the real value in this base and the resultant recipes by missing this ingrediant and its portion. Just a thought. PP
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As smell has a big impact on our taste buds you mat be walking away from the real value in this base and the resultant recipes by missing this ingrediant and its portion. Just a thought. PP
I agree. From a logical and near-scientific point of view, I think Josh's test has been totally invalidated by missing out what appears to be a crucial ingredient. I can't believe he went to all that trouble and expense with the vital ingredient missing. As a result, I really wouldn't place any credence on his conclusions.
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Ok Guys, I changed my mind.
I have literally just stuck a small quantity of this base on the stove about 5 minutes ago, complete with asofoetida. I've taken a picture of the raw veggies in the pot and will take more pictures during the cooking stage and let you know the final outcome :)
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For me, this (i.e. the small scale version of the curry base that I outlined above) is a very good curry base.
The following (in my order of priority) is what I distill from it for inclusion (and experimentation) in my own curry base:
- Large amounts of asafoetida (this definitely, in my opinion, contributes to a "BIR smell")
- Powdered fenugreek (this definitely contributes to, in my opinion, the depth and savouriness of resultant curries)
- The ratio of onions to other ingredients (the texture of resultant curries is nicely "flocculated", like I've only otherwise seen using Darth's curry base.....and in BIR curries)
- The ratio of oil to other ingredients (the oil separates nicely in the resultant curries, if not when cooking the base)
- the inclusion of cabbage (but I'm not too sure that this produces any discernible difference or advantage?)
I didn't use "bhaji oil" and I presume this might even improve things further.
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I think Josh's test has been totally invalidated by missing out what appears to be a crucial ingredient. I can't believe he went to all that trouble and expense with the vital ingredient missing. As a result, I really wouldn't place any credence on his conclusions.
Perhaps, but if Josh isn't too impressed with the smell (in particular) and the flavour, then it might point towards the importance of adding copious amounts of asafoetida? Therfore, a VALID conclusion ( with a little interpretation, understanding and open mindedness ;))
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I agree. From a logical and near-scientific point of view, I think Josh's test has been totally invalidated by missing out what appears to be a crucial ingredient. I can't believe he went to all that trouble and expense with the vital ingredient missing. As a result, I really wouldn't place any credence on his conclusions.
In ways George, you're right. Every other time I've seen asafoetida mentioned, its been a pinch or thereabouts. This base calls for more of it than I've ever seen (chef's spoon?)
If this makes a fundamental difference, which it may, then not only have I made a mistake, we may have also found the missing ingredient.
The smell the way I made it was not noticeably different from other bases I have made. The resultant curries weren't noticeably better either.
I may have missed it, but did anyone try it with the full asafoetida measure?
-- Josh
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I may have missed it, but did anyone try it with the full asafoetida measure?
I thought nearly all the people who reported great resuls from this base made it with all the ingredients included - hence my comment. It must be worth another try, unless you can add the asafoetida now, to your present batch of base, but I'm not sure it will have the same effect.
Suddenly, this book is looking like it might be a major breakthrough, after all. Perhaps the favourable response, here and elsewhere, is pushing up the value of the book. I see you can now pay as much as ?16 (incl p&P) on eBay. Search eBay.co.uk with 'undercover curry' to see the item I refer to.
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Suddenly, this book is looking like it might be a major breakthrough, after all. Perhaps the favourable response, here and elsewhere, is pushing up the value of the book. I see you can now pay as much as ?16 (incl p&P) on eBay. Search eBay.co.uk with 'undercover curry' to see the item I refer to.
Cheeky buggers, just checked, still available for 8 quid with free delivery from Amazon which is how I bought mine, ordered Sunday it was delivered on Tuesday.
Cheers
CoR
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Ok, I made this base yesterday with full on Asofoetida.
I have to say that this was a very time consuming base to make. I started making this base at 13:00 hrs yesterday afternoon and having spent 40 minutes preparing all the veggies and spices and oil etc, it finally went on the stove at 13:40 hrs.
I had this on the lowest setting possible for nearly 2 hours and the veggies hadn't even started to sweat, so I don't think the lowest setting is actually correct in the book. I then ramped the heat up a bit and after another 2 hours the veggies had released their moisture and there was a horrible stink coming from the pot. (My guess it was the asofoetida and fenugreek).
I then removed it from the heat and allowed it to cool for 1 hour, and then I put it through the blender until completely smooth.
Next, I transfered it back to the pot and here's the tricky bit, just how much extra water do you add? Too much and it could turn out wishy washy, too little and it could reduce down to nothing, so it is a bit of trial and error here.
I then proceeded to heat up the liquid, I got the froth (Scum) and stirred it all back in as required in the book. Now the time wait. I have to say that at 21:30 hrs last night there was only just a bare hint of oil on the top. I continued with this until 23:30 hrs last night and there was barely a film.
So, I switched it off for the night and thought I would leave it overnight.
This morning, there was a bit more oil on the top, but nothing that I would call beneficial, so, once again I put it back on the heat, this time for 2 hours and I now have a red oil film on top. I really don't think simmering this any longer is going to produce any further amounts of oil. The smell has reduced a lot and the end base sauce tastes a bit more bitter than those I have made in the past, unlike CA's and SNS which have always been a sweeter.
I've yet to make a curry with this and will let you know the outcome. I plan to make a Chicken Madras and a Garlic Chilli Chicken on Thursday, then a CTM on Saturday.
So, is this base going to be worth the amount of time it has taken to create that BIR taste, or will making anyone of the other bases from this site which takes a fraction of the time? I've yet to find out. Maybe using either CA's or Razor's or one of the others and adding the asofoetida and fenugreek would make a difference? Who knows, I guess this will be down to more experimenting.
It's a pity the book doesn't give any illustrations to show what you should actually be achieving here.
By the way I used 1.2 kg onions, but kept everything else bang on as per the previous quantities shown on this thread for the small quantity.
Here are some pictures from beginning to end, hopefully some of you who have made this base will be able to relate to them and advise whether your experimentation gave the same results or not :)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/6d5caf2bb9465340be8b05765fc78981.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#6d5caf2bb9465340be8b05765fc78981.JPG)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/1c931e76a186a20a9c8a74ffac7bec85.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#1c931e76a186a20a9c8a74ffac7bec85.JPG)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/acf0adba4a8b12d7877a6a78cd78fda2.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#acf0adba4a8b12d7877a6a78cd78fda2.JPG)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/40256a88f4c3a6c48fca37a24d3fbcc3.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#40256a88f4c3a6c48fca37a24d3fbcc3.JPG)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/04c888fc0379f6da008198ab32afdcce.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#04c888fc0379f6da008198ab32afdcce.JPG)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/45d596d75a83a14c9de01da92860bd3c.JPG) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#45d596d75a83a14c9de01da92860bd3c.JPG)
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:D976bar thanks for your update and photographs. Given other posts above it will be good to hear of your results for the meals especially if you stick to the recipes as given. Only then will we know if this base is worth the trouble. I would also value knowing where you are from so as to know regionally what you are comparing it to but that is just a wee thing for me. PP
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Hi Panpot,
Originally from London but now live in Berkshire :)
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Hi
I would like to thoroughly recommend the Garlic Chilli Chicken Tikka recipe in this book, I think its on page 94 (not got book to hand atm).
I have been making this recipe a lot with a slightly modified version of CA's base and the results are absolutely outstanding. I have tried it with normal chicken and prawns too and that works equally as well.
When I make it, I use quite a lot of oil, and am able to reclaim from the cooked dish the most beautiful BIR smelling red oil and use it in any subsequent dishes. In my personal opinion, with this one dish the results exceed the flavour and smell of my local TA.
I can go into further details if anyone is interested, but I encourage those with the book to try the recipe, very very nice.
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:D976bar thanks for your update and photographs. Given other posts above it will be good to hear of your results for the meals especially if you stick to the recipes as given. Only then will we know if this base is worth the trouble. I would also value knowing where you are from so as to know regionally what you are comparing it to but that is just a wee thing for me. PP
Chicken Tikka is in the fridge marinating. I normally marinate this for a good 24 hours before cooking over coals :)
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Cheers 976bar, looking forward to hearing more of your results. Thanks too Solarsplace for your update. I have yet to cook from the book having recently stocked up the freezer with Ashoka gear. I have enjoyed reading the book and feel that all the interest and posts on it have been good for all of us.pp
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Well, I made both the Garlic Chilli Chicken Masala and the Chicken Tikka Masala last night with the new base to the exact recipes I've previously used and to be honest, there was no real significant change.
The dishes both turned out a little less sweet than previously, and I ended up putting a bit more sugar in the CTM but apart from that, I really don't think spending 11 hours on this base sauce has given me any advantages.
The base sauce is a lot darker than my previous ones which gave a different colour contrast to the final dishes.
Next time I make a base, I might revert back to CA's and try the asofoetda and fenugreek in there to see if that makes any difference.
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Hi 976bar , from Lake Garda Italy ;D ( no Indian TA's here though :( )
I did make a 9 litre portion of this base but believe I ruined it by using used oil from the deep fat fryer , although the fryer is only used for frying Bhajis and the odd few chips i think possibly starch ? from the potatoes may have given the oil a acidic flavour to the detriment of the base. However I didn't have any problems in the cooking of the base time wise and the aroma around the house from the base was like no other base I have made and was fantastic :o the resultant curries did have this acidic taste that i mentioned earlier and i ended up scrapping the remaining base :( but i will be trying this again when i get back but i believe adding asofeteda and cabbage to other bases on the site could be advantageous.
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Hi Emin-j,
Would you add the fenugreek as well?
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hi , for a standard base with 3 or 4 pints water and between 1 and 2 kg of onion, how much cabbage would be the right amount? i guess about a quarter of a white cabbage? does that sound right?
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Hi Derek,
I guess that sounds about right. I only had greens, so I used a big handful of them, maybe thats why the base turned out much darker?
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Thanks mate. i guess cabbage is quite watery ,so should help produce a thin watery base, which is good for high temperature reduction/evaportaion. all my best bases have been thin and watery. the real bir base i tried was quite greenish brown. maybe its similar to your attempt.
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Hi Emin-j,
Would you add the fenugreek as well?
Yes , I would give it a try , anything that's not what you find in the majority of Curry Base recipes is worth a try , I also think your ' dark ' colour was due to the length of time you had it cooking for.
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Thanks mate. i guess cabbage is quite watery ,so should help produce a thin watery base, which is good for high temperature reduction/evaportaion. all my best bases have been thin and watery.
Wouldn't it be a lot easier and cheaper to add a drop of water? Nothing is as 'watery' as water. Whatever it is the cabbage is added for (e.g. flavour, texture or marketing/PR) it sure isn't added for its water content.
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wow this is an epic story - stayed up well past my bedtime.
i won't be buying the book at the mo - just timing really for me - i have my next few months planned out. i may think of it towards Christmas.
i do wish the book and the author well - he sounds a good guy from AchMal's post and his passion seems in the right place.
the post is disappointing in many ways to myself as a lot of questions are raised which are already answered in CRO and i'm amazed members have for whatever reason not picked up on them or simply not registered with them at the time.
for me there are a few areas of specific interest in the book:
1) the dipping of the spoons as i know this is how the chefs work. i use a chef spoon which is 4 tbsp (level) 6 tbsp (heaped) and seems to conflict with the spoonful volume stated. until we can get a good handle on what "volume" of each ingredient is used then recipe refinement will be slow process.
2) no mix powder only curry powder - muddies the water a little
i've tried chicken/bhaji oil (fryer oil) before and got a double hit on the taste that i already get. the make fresh idea in the book might just work.
the use of hing is something i've tried - i think it's the only ingredient i've actually put in the bin. if hing is BIR then i must eat something else from the TA. i have only used the black concentrated stuff which i grated and used in v.small amounts - yet it's impact on taste was well OTT. i have never tried it in base but using it at frying stage put me well off. i've had trouble with methi in the past but i never threw it out.
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I made the 2 litre version of the base in a slow cooker in the garage and although it took quite a time obviously you can leave it and come back later for the next stage and then leave it again ; the result was a very tasty base .next a madras from the book over the weekend.
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Has anyone created the Tandoori marinade - or rather a scaled-down version? Just wondering what quantities of the ingredients people may have used.
This book drive me mad, as it is just so vague at times. It feels incomplete, to be honest. >:(
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This book drive me mad, as it is just so vague at times. It feels incomplete, to be honest. >:(
Multiply that sentiment by about ten and you'll have some idea of my opinion of the book. ::)
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Just had a look at the author's website, and it seems that the style of language used has more than just a passing resemblance to this site. Makes me wonder if he hasn't been a member of cr0. After all, where did the term 'BIR' originate? Anyone else noticed this?
D.
The term BIR has been around a long time. I remember it from the UKFDI days
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I got this book recently, after visiting a mate who had just bought it. The base source was very good and I reckon this is because of the oil. some base sauces seems to boil the spices. This really uses gallons of the stuff.
we had Bhuna and Madras. both up to BIR quality.
Also Dave (author) is happy to email.
An addition to the book might have been cooking technique tips. I'm a believer that flames should be involved in the early stages. I can only relate to the pyrotechnics I see at my local haunt. I'm sure this adds to the taste, although care should be taken not to burn the spices.
I recommend this book and look forward to alienating my family by stinking my house out for a week (in a good way)
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Just cooked Dave Loyden's pulao rice from Undercover Curry, and was very surprised to find that his "don't wash the rice" method is a complete success :) I followed his instructions up to and including the point of adding milk, but was uncertain just how much milk to add (Dave writes "pour in enough milk to make it bubble up"), but that really gave me no idea how much, so I added some (enough to see it bubble up) but nowhere near enough to cover the rice. I have now sought his advice on this and will report back. I then added the spices and water (water by eye, not by ratio), brought it to the boil, allowed it to cook for a few minutes and then transferred it a covered pyrex casserole dish and transferred it to the microwave oven, which is how I normally prepare rice. It needed a further eight minutes on full power, after which I added about a dozen drops of food colouring (yellow, red, green) and then put the casserole dish into the pre-warmed top oven where it remained until we were ready to eat. The results were excellent, with every grain firm and separate, and a real "pulao" taste/feel/smell to it (my test is to eat it with lime pickle alone : if it goes well with that, it is a good pulao rice). My wife says that it would have benefited from a little salt and ghee, and I may try adding those next time. But for those who, like me, have always believed that basmati rice must be washed and soaked first, try this method : I think you will be very agreeably surprised !
** Phil.
P.S. Having now read this thread in its entirety, I am surprised that no-one has yet linked to an image of the author : http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/driver-delivers-the-secrets-of-the-perfect-curry-1.746915?referrerPath=news (http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/driver-delivers-the-secrets-of-the-perfect-curry-1.746915?referrerPath=news)
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That's one ugly dude.
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Here he is
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/a0100d22dcd73382208507d92f568f14.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#a0100d22dcd73382208507d92f568f14.jpg)
I didn't realise he wrote from Scottish BIR experiences
That may explain the different spicing
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That's one ugly dude.
Well, until you post a picture of yourself, we shall just have to assume that this is a classic case of the (curry) pot calling the kettle black !
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...The base source was very good and I reckon this is because of the oil...This really uses gallons of the stuff.
Not really sure what you mean by gallons? The quantity of oil is about 1/18 of the total base volume. Neither excessive nor unusual for a base.
we had Bhuna and Madras. both up to BIR quality.
Ah, you must be one of the "if it doesn't taste only of lemon it ain't a madras" brigade. The lemon is so overpowering it makes it unpalatable for me.
Also Dave (author) is happy to email.
Unless you ask him any really deep and probing questions, in which case he isn't.
I'm a believer that flames should be involved in the early stages. I can only relate to the pyrotechnics I see at my local haunt. I'm sure this adds to the taste
I don't agree at all. The flames are usually a side effect of the cooking (when they happen at all) and are not in most cases intended or desired.
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The flames are usually a side effect of the cooking (when they happen at all) and are not in most cases intended or desired.
Secret Santa's words are exactly it. what's important though is not to miss (and i did initially) the fact that when flames can occur is confirmation of the right heat and intensity. the flames actually burn off the oil which is not want you want at all.
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Further to my report on preparing pulao rice using Dave Loyden's method :
Just cooked Dave Loyden's pulao rice from Undercover Curry ...
I have just received feedback from Dave in which he confirms that my estimate of the amount of milk to be used was about right. Dave writes : "You've done exactly what I would've done with the milk content of your rice. It's not essential to use milk but especially when its combined with the addition of some ground almonds or cashews, it gives a lovely flavour that I find hard to describe but I'm sure you will see what I mean when you taste it."
** Phil.
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Yesterday I decided to try some of the ideas from Dave Loyden's base recipe, and in view of the discussions in this thread, added one teaspoon hing [1] and one teaspoon fenugreek to a green base consisting of pureed leeks cooked in rabbit stock(it was meant to be chicken stock, but my wife didn't bother to tell me she had already frozen the freshly made chicken stock and made room for it in the freezer by taking out some rabbit stock !). Anyhow, apart from those two ingredients I made the sauce in my normal KD-ish way, and then this evening cooked a chicken madras using yesterday's base. I omitted the fenugreek as this was already in the base, and -- to be honest -- the end results were not markedly different from any other madras I have ever made. Very pleasant, good texture and flavour, but you wouldn't drive ten miles to eat it if you had a perfectly good BIR in your own village !
** Phil.
[1] Yes, really a teaspoon, not a desert or tablespoon. These days I make just enough base for a couple of curries, so all ingredients are scaled down accordingly. To give an idea of the scale of the operation, there were just two leeks in the green stage-1 sauce.
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Secret Santa. If being pedantic was a quality of a chef, then you deserve 2 RAC rosettes.
Stick to cooking and not opinions on what people may or may not believe.
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the flames actually burn off the oil which is not want you want at all.
I don't know on this one but if it was so undesirable to have flames, then I'm quite sure the BIR chefs would avoid it. One can only assume the flambe approach has some advantage, and I doubt if it's pure theatrics. I also doubt if very much oil is burned off with each sheet of flame.
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Secret Santa. If being pedantic was a quality of a chef, then you deserve 2 RAC rosettes.
Stick to cooking and not opinions on what people may or may not believe.
What, so we're supposed to take your word as gospel and not question it? You're in the wrong place for that mate! ;D
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You miss the point Secret Ranta. This curry thing, it's getting you all agitated. Go out more, enjoy life! Take pleasure in discussion and debate, but try it in a kind of supportive sort of way!
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Yesterday I decided to try some of the ideas from Dave Loyden's base recipe, and in view of the discussions in this thread, added one teaspoon fenugreek
Hi Chaaa
Was this ground fenugreek seeds?
It should be
The leaves and seeds give a very different effect
I had to fo out and buy some seeds
They weren't something I really used
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...Bhuna and Madras. both up to BIR quality.
SecretSanta generously replied:
Ah, you must be one of the "if it doesn't taste only of lemon it ain't a madras" brigade. The lemon is so overpowering it makes it unpalatable for me.
For Madras, Dave Loyden adds ONE slice of lemon at the gravy stage. I suspect you're talking hyperbolese. If not, I'm concerned.
On a side note: are you sure you're not a character from League of Gentlemen/Psychoville?
With respect,
SgtP
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...Bhuna and Madras. both up to BIR quality.
SecretSanta generously replied:
Ah, you must be one of the "if it doesn't taste only of lemon it ain't a madras" brigade. The lemon is so overpowering it makes it unpalatable for me.
For Madras, Dave Loyden adds ONE slice of lemon at the gravy stage. I suspect you're talking hyperbolese. If not, I'm concerned.
On a side note: are you sure you're not a character from League of Gentlemen/Psychoville?
What rock have you crawled out from under? With just three posts, are you really a new member, a long time lurker, a trouble maker from another camp, or another member here who chooses to launch a new (duplicate) identity, in order to stir up trouble?
SS was quite right to challenge the points he did. That's what debate is about, even if you disagree with him. Rather than answer in a civilised manner, T445 took offence and now you've joined in. Shame on you both.
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I've made the madras from this book and it produces a reasonable curry, although I didn't use his base. Much better recipes can be had on this site, I reckon.
SS was quite right to challenge the points he did.
Sigh. Is that how you really interpret SS's reply? To me it comes across as him dismissing someone's post because it is inconsistent with his opinion. Why he feels the need to be so negative, I don't know.
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... in view of the discussions in this thread, added one teaspoon fenugreek
Was this ground fenugreek seeds?
Yes, although pre-ground rather than ground by myself. There are just five ground spices in my basic repertoire, although the spice cupboard contains many many more : ground chillies (or Bassar Curry Masala), ground cumin, ground fenugreek, ground coriander, and garam masala. These are listed in decreasing order of quantity required (something like 3:2:1:1/2:1/4).
** Phil.
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Sigh. Is that how you really interpret SS's reply? To me it comes across as him dismissing someone's post because it is inconsistent with his opinion. Why he feels the need to be so negative, I don't know.
Why Ramirez? Because of statements like this:
I've made the madras from this book and it produces a reasonable curry, although I didn't use his base
::)
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You miss the point Secret Ranta. This curry thing, it's getting you all agitated. Go out more, enjoy life! Take pleasure in discussion and debate, but try it in a kind of supportive sort of way!
On a side note: are you sure you're not a character from League of Gentlemen/Psychoville?
With respect,
SgtP
Yaaaaaaaaaaawn! ;D
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Why Ramirez? Because of statements like this:
I've made the madras from this book and it produces a reasonable curry, although I didn't use his base
So you reply to T445's reasonable comments regarding the book in quite a dismissive and arrogant manner, and then justify this by quoting a comment from someone else!
I'm all for reasoned and passionate debate - but if I'm honest your tone through a number of threads has been less than exemplary. However, I will of course apologise for my comments regarding Psychoville ;D
New members to this site should be welcomed; I think T445's earlier post was a reasonable sharing of knowledge regarding this new book. You don't have to agree with his comments (it's obvious you don't), but I found your response to be a touch arrogant.
I'll now crawl back under my rock........ :D
SgtP
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if it was so undesirable to have flames, then I'm quite sure the BIR chefs would avoid it.
George,
the type of pan may come into this - i don't know for sure. i do know that at the temperature i cook i can set fire to the oil instantly and the resulting dish in terms of BIR "oil" characteristic is far less than norm. i suppose if there is value in the flames (i am confident there is none) then addition of extra oil would make good.
the subject is something i don't feel we know enough about.
i may have to buy one of those ali pans to put my mind at rest. my local TA hardly ever set fire to their ali pan yet their heat is certainly ballpark or even higher than mine. i am either lacking in skill (very probable) or my steel pan has this slight deficiency. with care i can avoid the flames but i have to work at it.
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after maybe 8 years I thought I would revisit this book and recipes
apart from the recipes, the book has an entertaining dialogue
There is no doubt in my mind that the book is written from genuine observations in a takeaway/restaurant
When I made this before, I made the scaled down gravy which is not recommended by the author, although supplied
He understands that probably not many people want to go the whole hog!
My cooking pot wasn't quite large enough to quite make the full amount, but I could go 3/4
I learnt more, this time around, than when I made it before
Very important to
Cook on extra low gas
Let the vegetables cool right down before blending
Water down blended curry gravy by 50%
Boil until ALL the oil comes out from emulsification
You really need to get the full red oil slick on top of the gravy
Totally covering it
When cooking the curry
Don't overcook the garlic ginger or spices
So NO ROASTING
Don''t overboil the gravy
Add a little pataks tandoori paste
I prepared this and cooked this over a 3 day period
I made a prawn madras
Absolutely brilliant
His onion bhajees are fantastic
I mean as good as shop bought
and even better than a lot I have bought
the peshwari naan I'm not totally sold over
It's rolled just prior to cooking in the oven
It tasted lovely, but didn't rise
No pictures in the book, so maybe that was correct
I believe that Julian's book is very much "influenced" by this book
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close up of gray
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large pot of gravy
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The book says you can freeze. As you might imagine, I have frozen quite a bit!!
There is so much information about cooking curries
All you need is one part of the instructions to be wrong, and you've totally changed the flavour
Obviously, Dave's recipes are just one way of doing it
But exactly following what he says, from start to finish, really has delivered a quality result
Some of the information flies in the face of other recipes
For instance cooking the base on a low heat & no roasting of the spices
But I trusted and did it anyhow
and very glad I did
If nothing else,, the onion bhajees are well worth a try
Recipes for these have always bit a bit vague for the quantity of gram flour required
Dave specifies
weight of onion : weight of gram flour
4:1
and that works perfectly
The salting of the onions makes them keep a good shape
not overspiced, so the flavour of the onion comes through
But for all the curries, the paramount thing is to use his gravy
I was initially very dissapointed with the general flavour of the gravy, but it really worked so well with the curry
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Could you post the full bhaji recipe Pete?
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If Pete feels unable to do so, I can send a copy via private message.
** Phil.
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Could you post the full bhaji recipe Pete?
Could you post the full bhaji recipe Pete?
Don't think Dave is watching
are you Dave?
the book recipe is for a whopping 120 bhajees, but we're not going to do that are we?
this is my scaled down version
I used two huge onions which weighed 600g
I sliced into strips then put in a bowl
I added 1 1/2 desert spoons of salt
Mixed it all in by hand
and left it for two hours
No water is added for this recipe
you use the juice from the onions
then I added
1 egg
1/2 desert spoon madras curry powder
1/2 desert spoon garlic ginger puree
1 teaspoon slightly crushed coriander seeds
1/2 teaspoon slightly crushed cummin seeds
1/2 teaspoon slightly crushed fennel seeds
small handfull of finely chopped coriander leaves
pinch of ajwain seeds
1 desertspoon SR flour
1/2 desert spoon baking powder
150g gram flour
now get your hand in and really mix this up for a minute or two
leave about five minutes
Heat the oil to a low setting
I do this old school, by adjusting the gas
But it was 130 degrees
Cook for ten minutes
The bhajees don't go dark, they stay golden
Definitely watch the heat
Very important to keep low
the mixture is very easy to loosely shape into a ball
this makes about 10 bhajees
and it keeps the shape in the oil but expands a bit (probably the baking powder)
you're meant to let the bhajees cool, then deep fry again at a high temperature for a minute, when required
I have done them like this and they are absolutely fantastic
they get almost a hard shell on the outside, while remaining soft on the inside
but this time I just microwaved them hot
and they were superb
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got this bag really cheap
5 quid from the asian shop
the onions are huge
hope they are good keepers, going to take a while to get through them
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two of my bhajees
they smell amazing, even cold
note the amount of gram flour I used was 1/4 the weight of onion
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got this bag really cheap
5 quid from the asian shop
the onions are huge
hope they are good keepers, going to take a while to get through them
If they start to sprout - google how to plant out sprouting onions - works a treat - and you got more from each onion. Involves peeling onion down to indivdual sprouting parts
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note the amount of gram flour I used was 1/4 the weight of onion
Is that the 1 desertspoon SR flour in the recipe?
Couldn't see gram flour mentioned.
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Great post Pete, thank you. Would be good to get this recipe added to the recipes/ starters section of the forum so it
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note the amount of gram flour I used was 1/4 the weight of onion
Is that the 1 desertspoon SR flour in the recipe?
well spotted
can't believe I missed that
150g gram flour
which is 1/4 of the weight of the onions used
Couldn't see gram flour mentioned.
I have modified the recipe including this now
thanks for pointing out!!
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If they start to sprout - google how to plant out sprouting onions - works a treat - and you got more from each onion. Involves peeling onion down to indivdual sprouting parts
will do... lets hope I use them first!!
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I like the idea of the fennel seeds being crushed, that way i think you will get the little taste hits the seeds impart without getting them stuck in your teeth.
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Thanks Phil for the pm offer and thanks to Pete for the recipe. I'll have a bash at these for lunch soon and report back. My initial thoughts are that recipes with any type of raising agent haven't seemed right to me in the past, being too airy. This one has S.R.flour and baking powder, so we'll see.