Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: two-sheds on September 17, 2010, 09:22 AM
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made a medium chicken curry earlier in the week with no added salt as per recipe;looked good,smelt good and finger tip taste was good but when I came to eat it with rice etc it seemed tasteless so sprinkled some salt on which helped but still seemed lacking. what amount of salt would members recommend to add at the beginning of a recipe?
thanks
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Salt is great for seasoning but if your recipe is missing depth of flavour, simply adding extra salt will not bring this out.
Rather than use salt try adding Bouillon, I keep a jar of powdered vegetable bouillon in the cupboards for this very reason. Be sure not to add extra salt as bouillon usually contains salt already. Of course you could always use cheap stock cubes and the like.
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salt is crucial to getting towards the BIR taste. it's a piece of the jigsaw.
i've settled on 1/4 tsp per portion. i add it when the spice mix goes in. it does depend on how much is in the base though - some base have lots of salt others very little.
i've tried upto 1 tsp per portion which seems too much. i think 1/2 tsp is the max. just after frying the dish tastes far too salty at 1/2 tsp but after 5 mins resting the taste changes.
well worth trying out a few "settings" yourself.
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I also use about 1/4 teaspoon per portion. This equates to about 1.5 grams per portion. The doctors say you shouldn't eat more than 6 grams per day.
I certainly wouldn't go above 1/2 teaspoon per person.
Paul
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what amount of salt would members recommend to add at the beginning of a recipe?
I think it depends what your aim is here. Is it:
(1) to replicate BIR curries just like you get at a BIR, or
(2) food for everyday living, with your health in mind.
This forum is mainly about (1) so I think we can disregard (2).
There are no controls/pressures on BIRs to limit their use of salt, like there are on supermarkets, who have to write quantities on the packets. The more salt the better, for taste, within reason, at a restaurant.
The answer is to use as much salt as you possibly can just before the point when anyone would say it tastes 'salty', i.e. a lot.
I suggest that most other advice here is based on objective (2) above, and is understating the amount of salt really needed.
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I use a lot of salt in both the base and at the curry making stage and find that it is key. In the base I usually put in a heaped tablespoon and then add more if needed when making a curry.
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George, CK,
would be interesting to know how much u put in each portion. is it more than 1 tsp for example.
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would be interesting to know how much u put in each portion. is it more than 1 tsp for example.
Almost certainly when base and final curry are both taken into account.
It's a key reason, taken together with the high level of fat, why I limit visits to, or takeaways from, BIRs to once every couple of months (max) and limit my home cooking to just a few times a year.
Even at the reduced salt and fat levels you might be using, Jerry, I really fear for your future health (strokes, heart attacks, etc) given the frequency with which I believe you consume this stuff.
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Hi George
Your last post reads like you only have say 9 or 10 currys a year? is that correct?
Whilst I agree moderation is key, especially with salt and oil, 9 or 10 currys a year sounds a little extreme?
cheers
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I would say the same as Paul and Jerry - try making a single portion with 1/4 tsp then try making the same curry with a 1/2 tsp then ask yourself do you notice the difference, do you have a preference, do you want it even saltier (I wouldn't).
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I believe my curries are pretty healthy. Like I say, 1.5 grams of salt per portion is lower that a can of supermarket soup. As for the oil I use rice bran oil which is considered as healthy as olive oil. The only downside to eating oil is the sheer amount of calories you can consume but I can quite easily eat less in the day knowing I have a curry to look forward to in the evening. I'm not fat at all, my BMI is about 22.
I eat about 2 home made curries per week and probably 1 or 2 takeaway curries per month. Lovely jubbly :)
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Hi twoSheds,
It's an excellent question and the answer is really dependant on your preference.
My view is this, a curry should be savoury. Salt goes a long way in achieving this but it is not the only option. I don't add any extra salt to my final dish, preferring to include it in my base and spice mix. I make my base 3000ml at a time and use 1 tbs of salt for that quantity. My spice mix contains just short of 6% salt in it. So, I feel that my end curries have enough salt in them for me to know it's there, but never too much to describe the curry as "salty". I also feel that cooking with salt, allows you to use far less than you would use to achieve the same flavour if you just used it as a seasoning.
To get the savouriness that I desire in my dishes, I like to add fenugreek (Methi). Ground for my base and spice mix, and dried leaf for my end curry.
My suggestion, would be to use salt in your base and spice mix or, to start from scratch. Use no salt, then increase in small increments each time you cook a curry. The only thing with this is, you taste buds can be quite unstable. One day, 1/4 tsp would be plenty, another day, it may not feel like enough, and another day, it may feel far too much.
Good luck,
Ray :)
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Your last post reads like you only have say 9 or 10 currys a year? is that correct?
For BIR style curries, yes, that's probably about right.
I have a fair few supermarket chilled curries on top but I view those as a lot healthier because they have to print the ingredients and other info on the packet. Now, they are still not what you'd call 'healthy food' but I suggest they are 10 times healthier than a BIR curry (unless you only eat something like dry chicken tikka).
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I also feel that cooking with salt, allows you to use far less than you would use to achieve the same flavour if you just used it as a seasoning.
My suggestion, would be to use salt in your base
this is an area i've known for a while i've not bottomed. so far i think i've concluded what razor is saying - more salt in the base has a bigger impact than more salt at frying stage.
has anyone else had similar experience.
the trouble is for me is that i'm pretty sure the chef at my local TA adds salt at frying stage and the base is not as salty as say the ashoka which is quite salty.
George,
appreciate your comment on how much in total u use. i check how much i use in total tomorrow. i am pretty sure i am using less than i need for BIR comparable.
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It would be interesting to send some samples of BIR food to a lab for analysis. If 100 of us contributed GBP5 each it might just fund the most basic type of report. I know there's a greater chance that pigs will fly, given that we probably don't have 100 active members.
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But it wouldn't tell us what ingredients were used to make the base, whether pastes had been used etc. Plus what constitutes a proper BIR curry changes depending on where you live. My North West England taste is different to Glaswegian tastes for instance.
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I use all purpose seasoning instead of salt at the frying stage.
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Even at the reduced salt and fat levels you might be using, I really fear for your future health (strokes, heart attacks, etc) given the frequency with which I believe you consume this stuff.
George,
i can fully understand what u say. i think it's "moderation" in my overall diet that must cancel it out. as u're aware i'm paranoid on cholesterol. in fact lack of magnesium through this low sat fat diet i follow was to blame for my recent back trouble. my blood pressure is really v.good - i actually put it down to the healthiness of curry.
i checked the "total" salt (base & frying) range that i use. in the base it ranges from 0.75 ml to 2ml (c/w 6ml ashoka as spec, which i reduce to 3ml) and when u add in 1/4 tsp at frying gives a range of 0.4 to 0.65 tsp per portion.
given what u use and Razor's confirmation of the greater effect in the base i'm thinking of upping base salt to deliver a total of 1 tsp - which on the face of it sounds very high but i'm convinced this ballpark what BIR's use. i'll make the change on the base i'm planning for next week as a 1 off test.
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just a general thought on this subject.
i've always pondered why BIR chefs don't taste the food. i'm firmly in Gordon's camp of taste taste taste.
could it be the fact that high salt (>1/2 tsp) added at frying makes the taste so awful that no one would want to taste until it's been left for ~5 mins after being cooked.
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just a general thought on this subject.
i've always pondered why BIR chefs don't taste the food....
Could it possibly be because no Asian people would ever eat "that shite food" to quote a taxi driver of my acquaintance?
:o
Regards
CoR
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I think it's all down to personal taste , just add Salt at the final cooking stage until it tastes ' right ' , I reckon it must be at least 1/2 a teaspoon per portion to bring out the flavour , try eating fish n chips or salad without Salt :P
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Could it possibly be because no Asian people would ever eat "that shite food" to quote a taxi driver of my acquaintance?
:o
Regards
CoR
I work with quite a few Indian IT contractors and we have been out to BIR restaurants several times. They certainly seem to enjoy the food as much as we do.
Paul
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i think the taxi driver must be in a minority. the chef at my local TA is incredible proud of what he cook's. i'm not being hoodwinked - u can see it in his eye when u talk to him.
i know they cook their own tea in the shop before service. i'm sure its different to what's on the menu. the point being they use the same ingredients.
my interest is how can they be so sure their QA (ie cook and make by sight - no scales anywhere) is so good when there is very little QC. unless of course this accounts for why some TA are very poor.
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i know they cook their own tea in the shop before service. i'm sure its different to what's on the menu. the point being they use the same ingredients.
That is the whole point, yes of course they use the same ingredients but the resulting dishes are nothing like the stuff we know as BIR cuisine.
My taxi driver chap, it's his firm btw, provide delivery cover for a lot of the T/As and BIRs round here and many of his drivers also work in the restaurant trade so he does know what he is talking about. I'm sure that most BIR cooks take pride in their work, their livelihood depends on it after all, however if you ask anyone in the trade if they actually eat the stuff they serve I'll be willing to bet that very few do.The taxi guy calls it "shite" because of all the oil and salt in it, he reckons it's just not good for you, whenever I've asked how much they use he just says "too bloody much."
It's interesting to note that the BIRs seem to be changing/evolving into out of town destination style establishments (town centers T/As all seem to be kebab shops now) as more and more Asian people are eating out and demanding a more traditional and possibly more sophisticated style of cooking.
Another reason the 'old skool' BIR taste is disappearing, maybe?
Regards
CoR.
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CoR,
for sure u can't discount what taxi drivers say - they usually have cast iron experience on what they are talking about.
the quality of BIR is not in question for me though. yes there is a vast range between the best and the worst and unfortunately most fall into the worst category. just as an example a friend conducted a study in warrington recently. he picked 10 BIR's out phone book and progressively had the same meal from each in turn. the good news for me was that without knowledge of my eating habits the same TA was independently assessed as the best.
what are disappearing are the imitations - the best are doing more trade than they've ever done.
what i was searching for was an answer to why the chefs don't taste. imagine telling Gordon u've not tasted the dish as u don't like it. it's of course not about if they hate it or love it - how do they ensure the QA with very little QC. i think on this one the taxi man will struggle.
what i personally believe is that during cooking the relatively high level of salt makes the dish almost inedible. as the dish stands the taste changes to what we all know. i'm after a selection of views on what other possibilities exist or anything that will get me closer to my BIR objective.
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what i was searching for was an answer to why the chefs don't taste...how do they ensure the QA with very little QC.
Jerry imagine that you are a BIR chef, you work what five or six days a week? Then imagine how many times they make each dish in a week say. After that much hands on experience of making the same dish day after day, to the same formula, would you need to taste?
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To add to what SS said, could they even taste anything objectively after being exposed to an overdose of curry smells as they cook.
Paul
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Secret Santa, PaulP
i was searching for any better understanding of the workings of a BIR chef - thinking that there may be learning for us and improvement in what we do already.
i have some experience of the effect of variation of salt on the dish. i feel i certainly don't know enough about salt in BIR though. if the "no taste chef" was down to salt then it would have given me a good steer in what direction to proceed. base:frying salt proportion for me is currently ~4:1 but the ashoka is 8:1 - am i too low - that's the question which obviously i can eventually answer through trial and error myself.
given your comments and no other suggestions i can only conclude with what u say ie repetition is the reason for chef no tasting
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base:frying salt proportion for me is currently ~4:1 but the ashoka is 8:1
now realise (have just made base) that the above is ERROR.
should have said base salt : frying salt range 0.6:1 to 1.6:1 c/w ashoka at 2.4:1 (30ml in 10 off 300ml base portions, Nb original is actually x2 this ie 60g). all based on using 1/4 tsp at frying.
i've adjusted the base i've just made to increase the base salt to 17g in 7 portions (800g onion) and will use 1/4 tsp at frying giving total per dish of 3/4 tsp and ratio of 2:1 (c/w with using total of ~1/2 tsp in the past).
Nb i'm basing 15ml of salt being 15g which i think it roughly equates
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i cooked with the modified base last night (4 off jalfrezi and 1 off butter chicken).
i was well pleased with the result - i think the last piece of the jigsaw has fitted into place.
i am adopting total of 3/4 tsp salt per 200ml finished dish going fwd (300ml uncooked base)(1/2 tsp in the base and 1/4 tsp added at frying).
i am sure i'll try tweaking it over time to see if i can bring the total salt down but this increase from 1/2 tsp total has made a difference for me. by adding the bigger portion to the base avoids the over salting taste in the dish if u try increasing the salt at frying stage.
two-sheds - many thanks for initiating the post as it made me realise that i'd not fully bottomed this topic.
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thanks for all the input I will use 1tsp for a recipe for four persons as a standard to start with at the frying stage and see how it develops
again many thanks
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JerryM , Glad it's working out for you ;) what do you think the difference would be if you added ' Salt to taste ' at the frying stage rather than in the Base I'm struggling to work that one out ???
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what do you think the difference would be if you added ' Salt to taste ' at the frying stage rather than in the Base I'm struggling to work that one out ???
the breakthrough for me is in upping it in the base. with hindsight i can't believe i did not pick up on it before - particularly given the ashoka base spec.
previously i'd tried "salt to taste" without success. the only analogy is soup and chips. salt tastes like salt on chips but it evolves the taste of everything else in soup.
for future i have it in mind to leave out the salt at frying whilst keeping it at the high amount in base. not an urgent idea but something i'll try at some point.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3634.msg32897#msg32897 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3634.msg32897#msg32897)
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Liked the analogy JerryM that made sense ;)