Curry Recipes Online
Curry Recipe Group Tests => Curry Recipe Group Tests => Topic started by: chriswg on October 08, 2010, 03:23 PM
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Sorry its been a while coming but big thanks to Razor, Fi5H and Solarsplace for giving up their time and money to test 6 of the top rated recipes on the forum.
<img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_8ZixU3Nbf9c/TK8kbZQbTXI/AAAAAAAAAgY/kB_aBnezZKM/s800/Tikka.jpg" height="800" width="626" /> (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/V7wzkHRpjijzygcsAig9sA?feat=embedwebsite)
These are the links to the recipes.
Kushi - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4496.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4496.0)
CA - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1555.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1555.0)
Dipuraja - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4432.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4432.0)
Blade - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=874.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=874.0)
Maddhur - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=51.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=51.0)
Lasan - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4182.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4182.0)
Interestingly it was a good win all round for Dipuraja, top scoring in taste, texture and ease to make. The initial cost is a bit higher than some due to needing to buy speciality pastes but once you have them they are very cheap and quick to make. I timed them at 4 minutes to mix the marinade (not including making G/G paste).
I can safely say you should never waste your time making Maddhur's version. The cardamom and cloves really came through and killed the taste.
Blade's and Kushi's are both worth making, especially if you don't have the ingredients handy to make Dipurajas. Lasan was okay but a real pain in the ass to make and the end result wasn't worth the extra hassle.
Pictures are in this thread: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4977.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4977.0)
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Hi Chris,
Thanks from one and all for publishing the results, I think we all realise that it takes time to compile the spreadsheet.
Very interesting results. I've got to admit, I didn't for one minute think that Dips would come out on top before the test commenced.
I think CA's is a lovely tikka in it's own rite but just gets a little lost if using it in a final dish, especially a hotter one such as Madras, Jal Frezi or Vindaloo. With that said, I know it works perfectly in CA's own final dishes, having tried many of them to spec.
Dip's gives you a much stronger tasting tikka, really benefitting from a long marinade, perhaps 30 hrs or more as Moonster suggests in another post. It is typical though of a modern day TA tikka, probably owing to all the paste ingredients.
I was most surprised at the Kushi tikka. This was one of the first that I made when I started to get serious about cooking BIR food. At the time, I was in tikka nirvana when I very first made it but when pitched along side some of the others, it wasn't quite as good as I remembered it the first time around.
Blades version is certainly a winner for those who want a tikka in a hurry. Very short marinade, and no yogurt. Lemon juice being the predominant tenderising agent in this recipe.
Lasan's was ok but there are better ones available for the effort.
Madhurs, well. Whatever this is, it ain't tikka as I know it. Bloody hard work with a "medicine" like after taste. You can't even hide it in a dish because it infiltrates the full curry. Sorry, not for me. :(
Well done to everyone involved, especially Chris. Really enjoyed doing this one.
Bring on the Bhaji's ;D
Ray :)
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I think this test really highlights the usefulness of using pastes. I know some people are dead against using them, but in certain dishes they can really add a real depth of flavour with minimal work.
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On a different note, what would peoples thought be about asking Admin to sticky the winning recipe in each group test? Maybe it could include a sticky post at the top explaining why and including a link to the group test.
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On a different note, what would peoples thought be about asking Admin to sticky the winning recipe in each group test? Maybe it could include a sticky post at the top explaining why and including a link to the group test.
I think it would be shame to do that, because all but one recipe from each group then gets cast aside. I'm very grateful for all the effort that goes into these tests but I don't think the end result - outright winner - is as interesting as looking more closely at the detailed results.
I suggest it's almost a draw, once Madhur's recipe is left out. With only four people testing, the results are nowhere near a level of statistical significance. They're all over the place. Kushi's was the only one to score a perfect 10 (from you) on taste so I'm interested in trying that. Dip's scored three 9's and the overall highest on taste, so I'm certainly keen to try that. I know Blades' tikka is superb from making it before but many of us agreed that you need to add yoghurt, so why wasn't that done for this test? It means we all wasted our time during the tests at the time, several years' ago. Lasan's equalled Kushi on the overall taste score, so I will try that some time and personal taste preference could mean any of these are a winner for any individual member. CA's has also received much praise over the years' so it must be in the frame, too. Finally, I used Madhur's tikka recipe decades ago and loved it, as did everyone I've ever served it to, so I can't relate to these results, unless you used a different recipe of hers.
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Hi George,
I used Madhur's tikka recipe decades ago and loved it, as did everyone I've ever served it to, so I can't relate to these results, unless you used a different recipe of hers.
We all used the recipe that the link provided. Maybe it was different to the one you used 20 odd yrs ago, but it really wasn't very nice. Cardamom and cloves being way too dominant.
I've used the Kushi one many many times, and have always been more than happy with it but for me, when it was pitched against the others, it didn't "stand out" from the crowd.
I know Blades' tikka is superb from making it before but many of us agreed that you need to add yogurt, so why wasn't that done for this test?
Because, it would no longer have been Blades tikka would it? We do the recipes to spec as the recipe provider would want us to, unless they have made amendments, that's all we can do. The main reason for the inclusion of Blades tikka, is exactly that, it contains no yogurt and would make interesting reading to see how it compares to the yogurt based marinades.
I agree with you, 4 testers for this one probably wasn't enough to collate some good stats but 4 is all we had. I'm not keen on the "Sticky for the best recipe" idea either. I think we all agreed from the outset that it wasn't our intentions to create a list of elite recipes. I think that this, would be a step towards that.
I also agree with you, you could conclude that the results are almost a draw, only personal preference separating them. For me, I would have like to have seen how they all actually fared in a curry. CA's tikka is beautiful on it's own, delicately spiced, moist and tender but once you throw it into a dish, such as madras, it gets a little lost. Whereas Dipuraja's still retains it's identity, if that makes sense?
Thanks for you comments though George, just sorry that you gained nothing from the results.
Hopefully, the Bhaji tests will be more conclusive.
Ray :)
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I'll have to try Dipuraja's recipe
It doesn't have salt or chilli powder in
That is unusual isn't it?
I wish he'd come back, I loved his posts on Youtube
Maybe his place closed down, or he sold it
Does anybody know?
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Hi Haldi,
I'll have to try Dipuraja's recipe
It doesn't have salt or chilli powder in
That is unusual isn't it?
I haven't checked but I'm pretty sure that there will be plenty of salt and chilli in all the pastes.
As for where he's gone, I've no idea. He may very well have closed down, and that was the reason for all his Youtube post's?
I sincerely hope he's well though, and I too would love to see him back.
Ray :)
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George - I agree with your points and I definitely thought the top 3 recipes could be served in any BIR in the land without complaint, with the other 2 being close behind. I don't see any reason for anyone to try to improve on these recipes, there is something for everyone.
For me, I was tempted to sit on the fence and give 9's to all 3 of Dip's, Kushi's and Blades. In the end, after lots of retasting between me and my wife, we decided Kushi had the edge. Previously to the test Dips had been my standard, now I'm not sure. I'll probably be making both again though.
It is very interesting having them side by side. If you try each one a week apart you would be happy every time and it would be tough to differentiate. George, I suggest for your own benefit you try doing them all together, I'll be happy to add your results to the spreadsheet if you like, or you can just pick your favourite. Im sure we'd all be interested to hear your thoughts.
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Thanks to one and all for publishing the results, great team work.
a real testimony as to what this forum is all about, refreshing after all the silly bickering that went on a while back
hat off to all involved ;D
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Thanks for you comments though George, just sorry that you gained nothing from the results.
Actually. I've gained a lot from these results and the other tests. As I said, I'm grateful for all the work put in. IMHO this is the best thing going on within the forum at present, and for some time.
Despite my initial doubts, these group tests seem very worthwhile, unlike many other 'reports' reaching the forum on other threads, which strike me as random observations with no conclusion, or of much value at all. Just fog, like data overload, so we can't see the wood for the trees.
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Hi George.
Actually. I've gained a lot from these results and the other tests. As I said, I'm grateful for all the work put in. IMHO this is the best thing going on within the forum at present, and for some time.
Thanks for that, kind of makes it feel worth while when we hear comments like that
Thank you very much ;D.
Ray :)
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Thanks to all who helped with the testing. Great work.
I think the last tikka I made was the Dipuraja, and remember thinking it was excellent. The 10 on taste for the Kushi may well prompt me to give that one a try.
Also glad I never tried the Maddhur tikka.
Thx,
Josh
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George, I suggest for your own benefit you try doing them all together, I'll be happy to add your results to the spreadsheet if you like, or you can just pick your favourite. Im sure we'd all be interested to hear your thoughts.
That's not a bad idea, thanks. Luck has it that I need to make some tikka soon, to check out my latest attempt with a homemade tandoor, i.e. if I can get the oven temperature up to 400 or 500C.
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George,
Would be great if you could post some pics of the tandoor too. Is it you own design, or have you bought it kit form?
Ray :)
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Every time I go on the the Spices of India website I spend 5 minutes looking at their tandoors and trying to justify the expense. I'm sure one day I'll just think blow it and buy one.
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George, Would be great if you could post some pics of the tandoor too. Is it you own design, or have you bought it kit form?
It's my own design - what I call my MkII version. The first attempt was documented here in 2008 but I couldn't get it hot enough so the latest version is totally different, and will hopefully work better and hotter. I will do a write-up when I have something worthwhile to report.
Chris - the main expense of my tandoor attempts is the time to build them. The monetary outlay has been tiny for my MkII version - about GBP10 in total. A key requisite is that it can be dismantled and stored away when not in use. I'm not prepared to have some concrete monstrosity taking up space in my back yard, or a commercial offering the size of a washing machine, in my kitchen. If this latest attempt doesn't produce worthwhile results I'll be almost out of ideas, and will throw the whole lot in the bin.
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Not wishing to put a dampener on the results, but I would like to request that each tester confirms that they made the tikkas EXACTLY to the specified recipe (ingredients AND technique).
In my case, that means confirmation that that the testers used my tandoori masala and not a commercially supplied one (and any other specified detail).
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Hi CA,
I can confirm that I used you tandoori masala, as I have about 200g of it in my cupboard.
Ray :)
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Hi CA,
I can confirm that I used you tandoori masala, as I have about 200g of it in my cupboard.
Ray :)
Hi
I confirm that I followed the original posters recipes to spec. If they deviated from spec then that was an unintentional error on my part. To my knowledge none deviated even in error. I also had 3 additional persons test the results with me to avoid any influence or favouritism on my part.
I confirm that I used CA's own tandoori masala mix. In fact I would go as far to say that in my opinion, it is superior to off the shelf tandoori masala's and I have been using it for many months.
In fact, since the test, I have made just Blade's and CA's and not Dips. On paper there may be a point or 2 between them, but they are all up there as fantastic tikka's.
Thanks
Russell
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I can confirm that I......have about 200g of it in my cupboard.
;D you're kidding me, right! :P
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I can confirm that I......have about 200g of it in my cupboard.
;D you're kidding me, right! :P
Absolutely not, I make quite a lot of your dishes CA, switching between your and mine, and as it's one of the key components in many of your dishes, I knocked up a big batch of it.
For me, it's better than the Rajah tandoori masala which almost has a "Garam Masala" note to it.
Ray :)
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nice tests guys well done, I have tried them all apart from Madhurs & this gives me reason not to ;D.
Just an observation that the Lasaan tikka is infact Tandoori chicken & not tikka? as I consider tandoori & tikka to be different dishes.
cheers & keep up the good work 8)
Will
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nice tests guys well done, I have tried them all apart from Madhurs & this gives me reason not to ;D.
Just an observation that the Lasaan tikka is infact Tandoori chicken & not tikka? as I consider tandoori & tikka to be different dishes.
cheers & keep up the good work 8)
Will
Hi
I used to think that myself, and I think it still depends upon who you ask.
Taking Dip's recipe as an example, the only difference between the two is the food colouring and tikka is chunks of meat where as tandoori is meat on the bone.
Cheers
Russell
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Hi Will/Russell
My locals Tandoori lamb tikka and tandoori chicken use the same marinade but their chicken tikka is marinated in a more delecate marinade.
I guess will, that is all we had to go off really but I'm glad you enjoyed the test.
Ray :)
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I confirm that I used CA's own tandoori masala mix. In fact I would go as far to say that in my opinion, it is superior to off the shelf tandoori masala's...
Indeed it is a very superior tandoori masala. It certainly beats any off the shelf version.
In fact I've been using it myself ever since I found it in Pat Chapman's curry books some twenty (or more) years ago I think. ::)
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Well I've just tried Dip's version for the first time.
My first impression was - bloody hell you guys must like salt! :o
That was all I could taste on the first bite. After four or five chunks the salt overpowered my taste buds as the strength of it seemed to reduce and I began to get a taste of the underlying spices.
I can only say that we must be looking for very different things in a tikka because this is not by any stretch the best tikka I've tried.
From memory, because it was a while ago since I made some, blade's version would beat this hands down.
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Hi SS,
Dips is quite salty, typical of many TA versions. Like I said, it was quite a difficult one to judge this one because once you have had a mouth full of one tikka, it was quite hard to cleanse your palette for the next mouthfull, and the taste's started to mingle into one by the end.
I agree, Blades is an excellent tikka. I remember the first time that I made it. for me, it was a eureka moment, so much so, that I took a sample to my local TA for them to try. Most of the staff were veggies but one who wasn't did try it and asked for the recipe (which I didn't give him) they're not very forth coming with their recipes, so i thought I could use the secret as currency to trade recipes. Nothing came of it.
I think after making Blades for so long, I was looking for a different flavour, which Dip's provided, for me at least. I suppose in the back of my mind was always, how would it fair in a main dish. Dips fits the bill perfectly, plus, no need to add further salt in the dish.
It was really too close to call except for maddurs which really was inferior by quite some way to the rest of them.
Ray :)
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I found it in Pat Chapman's curry books some twenty (or more) years ago
Correct. As I clearly acknowledge in the posted recipe:
"This is a recipe for Tandoori Masala ("Tandoori Spice Mix") based on that in Pat Chapman's book "The Curry Bible". Whatever else you may think of Pat Chapman and his books, try this Tandoori Masala, it is excellent! I urge you to try it!"
The same is true for the recipe I posted for chicken tikka/tandoori:
"This is a recipe for Chicken Tikka/Tandoori based on that found in Pat Chapman?s book "Tandoori and Tikka Dishes".
Regarding tandoori masala or tikka/tandoori chicken, if I inadvertently say "my recipe", I mean the one that I posted on this forum (which is based on Pat Chapman's recipe).
Irrespectively, my comments and questions regarding the "testing" of recipes, exactly to specification, remain the same (which is the topic of this thread).
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if I inadvertently say "my recipe", I mean the one that I posted on this forum (which is based on Pat Chapman's recipe).
Let's agree to refer to it as 'Pat's Tandoori Masala' in future shall we?
Wouldn't want you to be accused of plagiarism. ;)
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Dips is quite salty, typical of many TA versions.
Going forward, it should be easy to reduce the salt a bit, and perhaps Dip's tikka would then be perfect. I agree with Chris that it would be awkward to start testing recipes with some changes built in, such as adding yoghurt to Blade's recipe, but I still reckon it would improve the taste.
I agree that Pat Chapman should receive any credit he deserves, given that his recipes aren't normally rated very highly here, at all. Perhaps his name could be added to the spreadsheet image.
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Going forward, it should be easy to reduce the salt a bit, and perhaps Dip's tikka would then be perfect.
I wish it was that simple George. Unfortunately there is no extra salt used in this recipe, it comes solely from the pastes used.
It's another reason not to use pastes in my opinion.
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Going forward, it should be easy to reduce the salt a bit, and perhaps Dip's tikka would then be perfect.
I wish it was that simple George. Unfortunately there is no extra salt used in this recipe, it comes solely from the pastes used.
It's another reason not to use pastes in my opinion.
Ah, that's a pity. I look forward to tasting the recipe for myself, when I try out my revamped, homemade tandoor.
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Let's agree to refer to it as 'Pat's Tandoori Masala' in future shall we?
Wouldn't want you to be accused of plagiarism. ;)
You can refer to it in any which way you want SS.
Wouldn't want you to be accused of being pedantic ;)
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Well done guys, a very interesting outcome. I must admit, that pastes are very handy when you want a quick fix. But I have found since having to use up pastes from the kebab tests, that actually, a good balance can be found by mixing certain pastes.
I now make a Tandoori Chicken mix using equal parts of Rajah Tandoori Massala and Patak's Tikka with yoghurt and lemon juice. Its savoury with a little kick just delicious. I would never have found this if it were not for the previous tests.
Testing the recipes like this is a great way to actually 'taste' the recipes too. As side by side, you actually get to differentiate the recipes. But for me the best thing about the tests, is trying recipes that I may not necessarily have tried previously.
I would rather the tests remain displayed as is. It gives people a chance to view the results properly and make a decision on the broken down results. For instance, the most important thing to me is taste, so I would base my winner on that alone. I agree with Ray that I would not want the tests to be come an elitist list of consolidated results.
I am looking forward to doing this test eventually and will share the results once done.
Thanks again guys. :)
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It is interesting to compare Jb's tikka recipe with Dipu's.
Although the same 3 Patak pastes are used the quantities are much less pro-rata in Jb's recipe, even accounting for 1 Kg meat in Dipu's versus 750 g meat in Jb's.
I can recommend Jb's tikka/tandoori as I made some this weekend.
Paul
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Hi Paul
Great spot. I hadn't picked up on this. JB's ingredients are slightly scaled down in his recipe compared to Dip's but so is his quantity of chicken, so pro rata (without doing the maths) they're very close indeed. The only real difference being the 2 tsp of mint sauce in JB's, Dip's doesn't have any. I can imagine that the mint sauce in JB's helps disguise the salt that's contained in the paste's too.
It does say something for TA tikka at least. Paste's are very prevalent. I wonder if the restaurants use pastes in such an abundance? I have a feeling that they don't, unless they have a TA outlet on the side of the restaurant.
Ray :)
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Hi
Little late I know but who used, fresh or frozen, Halal, UK or other? For there chicken.
Regards
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Hi Commis,
I used fresh chicken. I believe it was of UK origin and it was Halal (from my local Asian Supermarket, butchers section). Do you think these variables would have made some difference to the taste?
Ray :)
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Hi Ray
I doubt Halal or otherwise would have had much impact on final taste IMHO
Other than a frozen chicken which has lanquished in a freezer for upwards of 6 months and is as dried up as the proverbial ;)
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Hi AP
Hi Ray
I doubt Halal or otherwise would have had much impact on final taste IMHO
No, me neither but commis' question has intrigued me a little. I have also used frozen chicken fillets in the past with no notecable differences either.
Ray
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Hi
The reason for my question stems from a conversation I've had with my local Asian butcher, He has supplied over the years many businesses within the community. With fresh UK chicken and will only sell this as he uses the term "you can tell the quality of the water" that the chicken has lived on. Other stores sell the frozen stuff that is more prominent in Ta's, usually now from Brazil. I can tell a difference, mainly texture as really it's the tikka spices that dominate the taste. Just wondered if anyone else could?
Regards
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I have also used frozen chicken fillets in the past with no notecable differences either.
I agree, based on the taste of non-spiced, minimally seasoned roast chicken. All the celebrity chefs (in cahoots with the supermarkets) say you can taste a huge difference between something like a low cost fresh chicken (about ?2.70) from Lidl, or a frozen chicken, and a free range, "organic" chicken costing perhaps ?8 or more for the same size. I'm not persuaded there's much, if any, difference, especially after its been through a tikka marinade, with all the tenderizing and spicing.
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Whilst I disagree about not being able to tell the difference between organic free range and cheap mass produced chicken in general, I do agree that I doubt you could tell the difference once it had received the Tikka treatment.
I wonder though if might be able to tell the difference of corn fed, as some I have tried have been very different indeed, almost like game.
I don't know how the supermarkets treat Halal meat, but there does seem to be a difference in appearance between Halal and standard. The Halal seems drier suggesting it hasn't been injected with nonsense to plump it up etc. I could be wrong though, but you never get that residual fluid in the tray like you do with standard.
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Hi Axe,
Absolutely agree, once chicken has been "tikkered" I don't think even Marco Peirre White would know the difference.
With regards to Halal meat, yeah, you never seem to get that watery residue do you? Maybe because it is Halal, as well as it's being slaughtered in a certain way, it may have to be treated afterwards in a certain way, and that includes NOT adding any water to plump them up?
Ray :)
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Madhurs, well. Whatever this is, it ain't tikka as I know it. Bloody hard work with a "medicine" like after taste. You can't even hide it in a dish because it infiltrates the full curry. Sorry, not for me. :(
Th recipe is very pungent and was posted as a Tandoori recipe not a Tikka recipe. That may have a bearing on the final results.
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Hi Axe,
Absolutely agree, once chicken has been "tikkered" I don't think even Marco Peirre White would know the difference.
With regards to Halal meat, yeah, you never seem to get that watery residue do you? Maybe because it is Halal, as well as it's being slaughtered in a certain way, it may have to be treated afterwards in a certain way, and that includes NOT adding any water to plump them up?
Ray :)
I buy 5kg of Halal chicken breast from Makro which costs about
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What really annoys me about the chicken that's been pumped up with (usually brined) water is the way they now market it. On most packs they say "with added water to improve tenderness" or something along those lines. They don't say "with added water so that we can sell you 4.5kg of actual chicken, 0.5kg of water and charge you for 5kg".
What's more annoying is that when they're asked why they do it they say it's what their customers demand because it makes the chicken tender. Well maybe that's true(although I doubt it), but I bet they didn't ask their customers if they wanted to pay for 5kg of chicken and only get 4.5kg!
Anyway, as far as water-plumped chicken breasts go, Farm Foods sell two 1kg bags for ?8 (so ?4 per kilo) and they do exude a tiny bit of the white gunk when fried but compare very favourably to, for example, Morrisons cheap chicken which puts out a puddle of the stuff.
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Amazes me how people put up with most of the chicken from supermarkets, particularly the Dutch stuff, which is absolutely pumped full of water. It's not as if its cheap either, 7-9 quid a kilo, and the so called British farm chicken anything up to 12 quid a kilo. Madness. My butchers sells quality British chicken breast for 5 quid a kilo (sometimes less), no added water, and he's happy to butterfly cut/cube or whatever I want. Dont even get me started on lamb. The good lady wanted something from M & S yesterday. The parking was free for 90 mins but you have pay and display a quid ticket, which is refunded when you make a minimum purchase of 3 quid in the shop. I said to the missus you wont have much trouble spending 3 quid in here. She bought some blackberries and that was the parking sorted. Lamb Chops. You can get 4 for 14.80! I had to laugh. :)
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My butchers sells quality British chicken breast for 5 quid a kilo
Same here, although I do rather like Waitrose Leckford/Wiltshire chicken when they have it, as they are large, mature birds with an excellent texture that holds up very well during cooking.
** Phil.
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My butchers sells quality British chicken breast for 5 quid a kilo (sometimes less), no added water
But how would you know for sure? I suppose if it doesn't leak the tell tale white gunk then it's a fair bet but I wouldn't be convinced.
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My butchers sells quality British chicken breast for 5 quid a kilo (sometimes less), no added water
But how would you know for sure? I suppose if it doesn't leak the tell tale white gunk then it's a fair bet but I wouldn't be convinced.
Good point. Ive never actually asked him. Its certainly superior to most available at the supermarkets, and as good as the pricey options I feel. Obviously not full of water/saline, no gunk, and the right amount of shrinkage when cooked. I shall ask him. He is open that the whole/half legs of lamb he sells are NZ at the moment, but the chops are UK I think. There are loads of Halal butchers near me as well and there produce is also top notch and reasonably priced. Got some today; 4.80 per kilo.