Curry Recipes Online
Curry Recipe Group Tests => Curry Recipe Group Tests => Topic started by: chriswg on October 09, 2010, 07:09 PM
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The group testing of the starters is going really well with Bhajis lined up for this month and possibly garlic naans the next.
At some stage we will have the difficult task of trying to test the actual curries. The main reason it will be tough to get accurate results is that we can't realistically try the different recipes with the bases that they are intended to be used with. i.e. CA's Madras recipe with CA's base sauce. We also have the issue of non standard spice mixes too. It just isn't practical to make 5 bases to try 5 recipes.
I'd like to hear peoples thoughts on this and the best way to move forwards. My first thought is to set a 'standard' base recipe and spice mix and then the recipe can be amended slightly to accommodate this. For example is a recipe has it's own spice mix that includes chilli powder, but the 'standard' spice mix doesn't have any in it, it should be added to the recipe.
Getting the base right is a much more difficult affair. We can't just add in carrot at the end because the base didn't have any in. I imagine we'll have to make a generic base and make do with it. At least all of the recipes will be using the same one so it should be a fairly fair test. Any suggestion would be gratefully received.
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Hi Chris,
Been giving this some thought, and agree, its gonna be difficult.
I think there has already been an attempt at creating a generic base on here before but it was before my time here http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4065.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4065.0)
There is also a curry masala to go with this, albeit that there seems to be loads of ingredients in it at first glance..
I'm sure the more "long standing" members wouldn't object to us using these as a starting point?
If they were ok with it, then all we would have to do is ask members for their say "madras" recipe or whatever, using these two ingredients as standard but using their method.
Ok, it wouldn't be strictly their recipe but, it would at least be a dish cooked on a level footing whereby only the method changes. We often wonder if the method makes the dish here, so this would be an excellent way of finding out.
What dya think?
Ray :)
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I totally agree, it's the only feasible way and I think we'll get some good differences between the recipes and methods. The last 2 tests have really taught me a lot about what works well with kebabs and tikka, if I learn as much from trying 5 Madras recipes then I'll be a happy man.
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Hi Chris,
The last 2 tests have really taught me a lot about what works well with kebabs and tikka, if I learn as much from trying 5 Madras recipes then I'll be a happy man.
Same goes for me Chris.
I think we would need to choose the Title of the dishes carefully, something like, cr0 madras using CA's method and extras?
And obviously explain from the outset that this test bares no reflection on the method providers actual spec recipe..
Ray :)
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And obviously explain from the outset that this test bares no reflection on the method providers actual spec recipe..
I agree Ray (although I think it applies to ingredients AND technique).
And it therefore begs the questions, "Why bother? What real value would it add? " :-\
Unless you make it EXACTLY to the authors specifications (i.e. ingredients AND technique), it would have very little meaning, IMHO (apart from entertainment value).
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Hi CA
And obviously explain from the outset that this test bares no reflection on the method providers actual spec recipe..
Unless you make it EXACTLY to the authors specifications (i.e. ingredients AND technique), it would have very little meaning, IMHO (apart from entertainment value).
Maybe that's good enough reason CA, just for the entertainment. In all honesty, we would love to pitch one madras against another but it's too much work. 6 full blown base recipes, 6 different spice mixes, plus all the extras, it's just not feasible.
The cr02 base was developed a while back, I think you instigated the idea CA?, it just seems a shame that the hard work that was put in back then, has fizzled out, with only Jerry referring to it (My Take) albeit, with tweaks.
I think the trick with this one is basically, lets see what works best with the cr02 base and masala. It won't bare any reflection whatsoever and any of the spec recipes.
You have a couple of unique ingredients in your madras such as your tandoori masala, spiced oil, 2 tsp sugar whereas, the Ashoka has it's Bunjarra, cooked g/g paste, so the flavours should be different. I think it's SnS's method that includes adding water and reducing very gradually? Dip's is almost an "all in and boil" method, again, should produce very different results.
The methods and extra spec ingredients are what will separate these dishes, so the methods in this test will be the benchmark more than the taste, if that makes sense?
Hope that explains it better CA, but your right, it does provide a little bit of entertainment for the members and I hope people are enjoying these group tests.
Ray :)
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The methods and extra spec ingredients are what will separate these dishes, so the methods in this test will be the benchmark more than the taste, if that makes sense?
Not really, to me, Ray. I think if you deviate from the recipes (at all) then you deviate from the authors' intent. The result will therefore be invalid (strictly speaking, for comparison purposes).
it does provide a little bit of entertainment for the members and I hope people are enjoying these group tests
I agree that, provided the tests remain in that context, it's fine. However, recent suggestions about making the "winning recipe" a "sticky" and forum members referring other members to the winning recipe worries me (for the reasons stated above). Though I have seen that you've been gracious enough to repeatedly affirm the entertainment value (but some haven't)
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Hi CA,
Not really, to me, Ray. I think if you deviate from the recipes (at all) then you deviate from the authors' intent. The result will therefore be invalid (strictly speaking, for comparison purposes).
Correct, but if this test goes ahead, we will not be creating any recipe providers spec recipe, we would just be using their method and any extras that they throw in such as spiced oil. So validity shouldn't come in to it really. Basically, it would be, for example, cr02 Madras, CA style and so on....and as long as that is well documented from the start, we should avoid any confusion, hopefully.
I agree that, provided the tests remain in that context, it's fine. However, recent suggestions about making the "winning recipe" a "sticky" and forum members referring other members to the winning recipe worries me (for the reasons stated above). Though I have seen that you've been gracious enough to repeatedly affirm the entertainment value (but some haven't)
I agree, we all said from the outset, that creating a list of elite recipes wouldn't be good for the forum or it's members. Plus, it would be based on the opinion of a handful of testers with no qualification to create such a list. I do think the suggestion was made in good faith, perhaps with the intention of raising the profile of what we are doing but no, it's purely a bit of fun.
As for pointing newbies toward certain recipes, well, that's always happenend on here. I have pointed many many new members towards your recipes in particular. I don't see it has being such a problem afterall, they may think that the suggested recipe isn't that good, and therefor we run the risk of having our opinion dismissed in the future.
Ray :)
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Correct, but if this test goes ahead, we will not be creating any recipe providers spec recipe, we would just be using their method and any extras that they throw in such as spiced oil. So validity shouldn't come in to it really. Basically, it would be, for example, cr02 Madras, CA style and so on....and as long as that is well documented from the start, we should avoid any confusion, hopefully
I understand what you're saying Ray, but I do feel that if "testers" are going to "adjust" recipes in light of the "standard" curry base that they are using (as Chris has suggested), then they are either going to have to be very experienced curry cooks (which I doubt) or the results are going to be largely irrelevant. Therefore, the "entertainment value" may remain, but very little else will.
I know I may sound hypocritical, since I believe that you can mix and match main dish recipes with a decent (neutral, well balanced) curry base recipe and get good results (though many would disagree with me) but, for one-on-one comparisons, it becomes quite erroneous.
I admit that I'm more than a little peeved that Admin can't sort out a generic recipe rating system (for all members to use) but, as someone pointed out, that's probably just me muddying the waters! :P
What do others think?
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CA,
The only relevance that this particular test would hold, is how each method fairs using a generic base and spice mix, and that's all.
Maybe this particular test should be entitled "cr02 Madras Experiment" rather than test? That should alert members to the fact that none of these dishes have ever been cooked before by anyone (maybe Jerry lol) and that the results should provide entertainment, and nothing more serious than that.
It's really like, taking my head, putting on it your nose, Chris's mouth, Jerry's eyes, Domi's hair, George's ears and seeing what we end up with. It may end up a proper minger, or a real stunner?
Should be interesting, nonetheless ;D
Ray ;D
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I am with CA on this one, although i appreciate the practicalitys of making 6 curry bases is time consuming it would most definatly benefit the whole forum if people where willing to contribute the time and effort to make each curry to spec. The feedback alone would make very interesting reading.
I have only been on this forum a fortnight and have learnt so much in replicating both your curry razor and ca's doing them both exactly to spec.
just a suggestion but would it be possible to only make half portions of curry base and increase the testing period over two months instead of one.
personally i think the amount of contribution to the board that you both make, it is only right that people make your currys to spec, especially when posters like yourselves go to the trouble of posting these excellent recipes on the forum for us all to enjoy. In my opinion the feedback from each recipe should represent the whole process from base to plate.
regards moonster
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Hi
Granted, it will be a lot of work, but if you were to do 2 bases and 2 matched currys a month, then that seems reasonably doable?
If I were invited to be involved, I would do each to spec with the original authors base, plus do the curry recipe side by side with the generic base and spice mix just out of interest to see what the results were like.
I think to be fair, although it is a lot of work, for the test to be (as others have already just stated) of any actual benefit over just fun then the recipe does need to be paired with its specified base if it has one.
As always just a humble opinion.
Cheers
Russell
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Hi SP/Moonster.
would it be possible to only make half portions of curry base
It would be possible but, would it taste the same as the full spec recipe? Halving the ingredients does not necessarily mean halving the cooking time!
And I also agree, if we are to test certain members dishes, we should make them exactly to spec, including method but, how practical is that, really? 6 full blown bases @ 2 ltrs each. Have you got room for 12 litres of base in your freezer because I know I haven't, lol.
5 or 6 portions of precooked chicken, cooked exactly to spec? Most of which are asking for between 600g and 1 kg of chicken That would cost at least 30 quid just for the chicken alone! Just to do the test, by spec recipe would cost in the region of 30 - 40 quid.
But this wouldn't be a recipe comparison test, it would be an experiment using a base that some of the more long standing members developed quite a while back along with an accompanying curry masala. All that we would be doing, is looking at which method best suits the base and masala, that's all. As far as I'm aware, this base got developed but never really got explored much after that, except for Jerrym, who has tweaked it to suit his taste but the tweaks no longer mean that it is the cr02 base!
If my method came out last, it wouldn't bare any reflection on what my spec recipe would turn out like, it would just show that my method doesn't suit this combination. It wouldn't worry me in the slightest.
If the majority of the members really want us to do a proper "Curry test" then fair enough, but it would take far longer than 2 months to complete, and in reality it would probably take about 6 months minimum.
Lastly, we all debate where the "taste" comes from. I think most of us have ruled out that it's some closely guarded secret, known only in BIR circles. I also think that a good many of us have ruled out some secret ingredient too. So what does that leave us with? Ok, experienced chefs will no doubt cook something better than a novice, but I don't believe that any of the testers are what you would describe as novices, just not professionals that's all. So for me, that leaves the method to explore. This experiment would at least tell us which method works well with this base.
Ray :)
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It's really like, taking my head, putting on it your nose, Chris's mouth, Jerry's eyes, Domi's hair, George's ears and seeing what we end up with. It may end up a proper minger, or a real stunner?
Something like this?
(http://filmdope.com/Gallery/ActorsC/3648-3007.gif)
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That's what too many years down under does to you ;)
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Hey SS,
you been rooting through my facebook profile pics ;D ;D ;D
Ray ;D
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That's what too many years down under does to you ;)
Nahhhh, that does THIS:
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/d29904dcc26faabd0a80ccb6eeb883ac.gif) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#d29904dcc26faabd0a80ccb6eeb883ac.gif)
;)
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Okay I had a thought on this, it would be good to get some feedback from others.
How about each judge makes a different base to test the 5 curries. This would mean each dish would be cooked once with the intended base, and 4 times with 4 different bases. It means each judge only has to make one batch to create all 5 curries and the results will help either confirm or discredit the theory that a curry needs to have it's matching base.
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The only problem with that, is that there will be no real comparison of results between each judge, as each would have tested a different finished dish.
I know this is going to be hard to resolve but we need to make sure we are all testing the same recipes.
Of course, we can discuss the virtues of trying to the resolve this for ages. The only way to produce accurate results is to follow each recipe as, but we no that is not practical.
Given the number of variables that are presented, we must choose to go with a generic base and a minimal spice mix like the IG, adding in any missing components for individual recipes where possible.
Unless a particular dish uses a radical base recipe, I doubt there will be enough discernible difference in the finished dish itself. All we need to do is decide which of the base recipes is suitable to be used as a generic base.
The same for the Spice Mix too, though adding additional spice will be alot easier to do and none of us should have any problems there.
As long as we clearly explain this in the test results, it shouldn't be a problem. Afterall, these tests are a guide to our experiences. The fact we are testing them in this fashion is just a speedier way of getting to results that members would try over the years of home testing.
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hi, all
why not use a subtle generic base or one that is close to all the selected recipes curry base, but make the rest of each author recipe to spec including there own spice mix.
I believe that would be the best way to test each method of cooking and also getting as close as you can to the authors intended dish. At least then you would have a proper fair comparison test between recipes. only difference being the base.
regards
moonster ;D
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Hi Guys,
This one was always going to throw up some debate wasn't it?
Chris, I agree with Axe with regards to each tester making a different base each. Each result will be different for each tester, and therefor not really concluding anything.
Given the number of variables that are presented, we must choose to go with a generic base and a minimal spice mix like the IG, adding in any missing components for individual recipes where possible.
We do already have a generic base on the forum "cr02" which also comes with an accompanying spice masala.
why not use a subtle generic base or one that is close to all the selected recipes curry base, but make the rest of each author recipe to spec including there own spice mix.
Again, the problem with that is, if say mine comes out scoring quite low, I'm always going to throw in the old "ah, but you didn't use my spice mix and therefor the test is invalid"
We really don't want to be upsetting recipe providers by deviating from their spec recipe.
And I strongly suggest that we refer to this one, should it go ahead, as an experiment, not a test.
For me, and it is only my opinion, If we are to do this, the only way possible, without offending anyone, is to use the cr02 base, and it's accompanying spice masala, and just trial the different methods. Just think of the possibilities! We could actually do a hell of a lot more different trials if we wish, say 10. We would have the base, we would have the spice masala, the methods are all clearly provided within the recipes, it would be very simple to do. The only extra ingredients we would need are, onion pastes, spiced oil, tandoori masala and whatever other extras are included in the varying methods.
Ray :)
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How about we make a list of 5 or 6 Madras recipes then look at which ones require a specific base and compare the ingredients in them. Some of them say any base can be used. It would also be good to try and pick out the ones with different methods. The ones I have tried have all been fairly similar and simple: fry g/g paste, add tom puree, spice mix, chilli powder, methi leaves and sometimes lemon dressing, cook spices for a couple of mins before adding base, sprinkle with fresh coriander to finish. I think we'll be hard pressed to find 5 different recipes on the site.
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Chris that's a good idea. If we can identify common areas it should help us decide.
I haven't done much base research myself so I can't comment on the CR02 base but I don't think the masala could be used. If you break down basic spice mixes the curry powder proportion is much less than the amount that could be considered to be in the CR02 masala. But that's only my opinion.
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Hi Guy's,
I know that I must sound like a broken record on this ::)
How about we make a list of 5 or 6 Madras recipes then look at which ones require a specific base and compare the ingredients in them. Some of them say any base can be used. It would also be good to try and pick out the ones with different methods.
This idea in itself is sound but (here I go again) Sorry CA (for keep using you as the example) If we make CA's madras, but using a different base, and it doesn't come out good, then rightly so, CA will point out that this his not his recipe. So where is the credibility in the rating?
The reverse is also true, Make my Madras, using a different base and it comes out great. Yeah I would be well chuffed but if someone then makes my recipe to spec, using my base and say's "Oi, Razor you Madras is well rank mate" Then that in itself could deter people from making my spec madras ever again.
The tests done this way don't hold any credibility for me, sorry.
My whole thinking on this one is, a few years ago, a few very enthusiastic cr0 members, tried to make a unique base and masala. I think this was probably done, for the very same reasons as to why we are doing the recipe testing, to help move the forum forward, and leave the lesser "curry sites" in our slip stream. Unfortunately, once the base and masala was decided, it didn't seem to move on any. Surely, wouldn't you guy's like to conclude this early experiment and pick up where the others had left off?
How good would it be for this forum to have it's own Curry Base, Curry Masala, and a list of recipes to go with them. I'm pretty sure that some of the "pay as you learn" sites don't have this.
Perhaps I'm being a bit too romantic about this concept, I don't know?
Like I said to Chris in my PM, maybe we could open up a poll with each of the suggestions, and lets see what the members would want us to do?
Ray :)