Curry Recipes Online
Curry Base Recipes => Curry Base Chat => Topic started by: Peripatetic Phil on November 25, 2010, 01:59 PM
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Just trying KD2 base (in pressure cooker, on LP setting) for the first time. Horrified to discover that Kris has "gone metric" in KD2, so for the first time in my life I have had to weigh 2Kg onions and 50g garlic & ginger. I will continue to update this message until the base is complete and I have cooked my first curry (hopefully this evening), so please don't add replies until I have finally reported on the end dish.
** Phil.
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Phil,
electronic scales are what you need. dead easy switching from old to new units.
i thought the KD2 base is the same as KD1 - is it the pressure cooker that you are trying out.
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electronic scales are what you need. dead easy switching from old to new units.
That's what we had, until herself dropped them and didn't tell me ! We still have electronic scales, but these are a much older design that are bi-stable : press once for on (metric), then press again for tare and/or Imperial. Unfortunately it is extremely unpredictable what happens on a second or subsequent press, which is why we bought the more modern set on a trip to Germany. They will have to be replaced a.s.a.p. !
i thought the KD2 base is the same as KD1 - is it the pressure cooker that you are trying out.
No, KD2 involves sauteeing the onions; that is the basic difference, intended to make the smell when they are finally boiled less offensive. The pressure cooker I have used before, and is basically a way of leaving the onions doing something useful (softening) if I want to turn the power off (for example, to go out, as I did today).
More later : going back to start liquidising now and the adding the tomato and turmeric/paprika.
Updated : Stage 3 is quite tricky; you have to fry one teaspoon of turmeric and one teaspoon of paprika with one teaspoon tomato puree and one tablespoon oil; I failed to read the key words "medium heat", and the spices almost certainly cooked too quickly as a result. I shall persevere, even though I could have re-started that stage with very little loss, but of course the tests will no longer be conclusive.
Second update : Well, that was interesting. The first thing to note is that KD2 stage-1 sauce is noticeably different in colour to KD1; it has far more of a milky appearance. After stages 2 & 3, any remaining difference is no longer obvious.
In total, KD's quantities (see above, plus 1,5L water) yielded 54 fl. oz. stage 3 sauce, which I divided into 1 x 3/4 pt for today's chicken thigh curry, and 3 x 14 fl. oz. for chilling or freezing. I didn't bother to reserve any stage-1 sauce for pre-cooking future meals, as there seem so many other ways that it was not worth bothering at this stage.
So this evening I made a chicken thigh madras : 3/4 pt stage 3 sauce, 2 x skinned free-range chicken thighs (I fried the skins yesterday in "essence of curry", and they were wonderful !). 5 tablespoons recycled oil, 2 teaspoons Bassar curry masala, 1 teaspoon salt, 1 teaspoon cumin, 1/2 teaspoon fenugreek, some chopped coriander stalk, a wedge of lemon and a squeeze of lemon juice. In retrospect, less Bassar curry masala would have been better, as there was still considerable heat in the recycled oil. And the squeeze of lemon juice was overkill. Garnished with chopped coriander leaves and served with a stuffed paratha.
Now the punch line : the chicken thighs weren't fully cooked ! But as I'd already poured the gravy over the paratha, I couldn't wait for the chicken to finish cooking, or the paratha would have gone soft, so instead I just ate paratha and curry gravy. It was superb :) So without intending to, I really put this recipe to the test : could you eat the sauce effectively by itself (OK, with paratha) ? And the answer was decidedly "yes".
So I have no reservations about recommending KD2 as a base for those who want to avoid the unpleasant smells associated with KD1. But KD2 is more labour intensive, so I suspect I will continue to use KD1 as my base of choice, resurrecting KD2 when and if I need to prepare base when herself is at home (or is expected home the same evening) ! That's it for tonight, most is already washed up, so unless anyone asks any questions I shall stop here. Goodnight, all.
** Phil.
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Hi Phil,
Not having made the KD2 base myself, how do you find the base compared to others on this site?
CM
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Not having made the KD2 base myself, how do you find the base compared to others on this site?
With considerable embarrassment, I have to confess that the only bases I have ever made are KD1, KD2, and my own creations. And on thinking about it, I suppose that my reason for this is that I feel that a base is just that : a base. The creativity comes in, I think, when you are preparing the final dish : the base is just there to provide the right texture and underlying flavour, which therefore has to be subtle and understated.
** Phil.
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I have to confess that the only bases I have ever made are KD1, KD2, and my own creations. And on thinking about it, I suppose that my reason for this is that I feel that a base is just that : a base. The creativity comes in, I think, when you are preparing the final dish : the base is just there to provide the right texture and underlying flavour, which therefore has to be subtle and understated.
your comments fly in the face of much of the advice at this forum. How can you make such pronouncements if you haven't even tried any of the popular bases off this site? I think I'm right in saying that the KD bases have never been rated very highly by most people here, even though there are a few fans. Perhaps they haven't tried the superior bases, either, so they might not know what they're missing.
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your comments fly in the face of much of the advice at this forum. How can you make such pronouncements if you haven't even tried any of the popular bases off this site?
I'm not sure what pronouncements have in mind, George. All I do is report factually on my own experiments, and give my own assessment (and sometimes my wife's) of the results. Never have I suggested that KD's bases are better than CA's, or Ray's, or Bruce Edwards, or anyone else's : all I am suggesting is that KD's bases are absolutely fine in their own right, and produce final curries that are comparable to any that I have eaten in British Indian Restaurants.
I think I'm right in saying that the KD bases have never been rated very highly by most people here, even though there are a few fans. Perhaps they haven't tried the superior bases, either, so they might not know what they're missing.
Yes, I am aware that not all regard KD's bases as highly as I do : that seems perfectly reasonable, but surely that is not a reason for not posting my own tests and results ? After all, if we all agreed which was the best base and the best final-dish recipes, there would be no need for CR0 at all : we could simply publish the definitive BIR recipe book and retire on the profits :)
But what I don't know, George, is what your own preferences and experiences are : which bases have you tried, in conjunction with which recipes, and what results have you achieved ? This isn't Wikipaedia, where original research is frowned upon : quite the opposite, in fact -- original research forms the lifeblood of this forum !
** Phil.
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Hi Phil
Good efforts there! you certainly are doing a lot of experimentation recently.
So, where will you go from here? are you going to stick with this base for a while and see how you think it fairs making other dishes with it?
Used to make the KD1 base quite a lot myself and enjoyed using that. I think I liked it personally as it was quite basic, subtle flavoured and easy to make into very tasty curry's.
It is easy just to stick with a base if you feel you get on with it. I've tried several bases from the site and in the end have stuck with a tweaked CA base at the moment, but would have no problem trying the KD1 again or the newer KD2 base.
Keep up the good reports, any work in progress pictures?
cheers
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Keep up the good reports, any work in progress pictures?
Thanks for the kind words, SP. No, no pictures I am afraid; it seemed to me that one curry looks remarkably like another once it's finished, and as I'd already posted pictures of my earlier efforts there didn't seem much point in posting pictures of this one, which apart from the appearance at the end of stage-1 looked virtually identical.
As to "where to go from here", I now have yesterday's chicken madras which I will share with my wife on her return, together with pre-roast lamb that is marinading in the 'fridge and which will be turned into a lamb biryani. I then have three portions of KD2 stage-3 base, at least two of which I will freeze, so no more base-making for a while !
** Phil.
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die! - reported spam!
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die! - reported spam!
Yes, odd : the original thread has been deleted, yet the spammer's a/c remains active.
Maybe before joining the forum there should be a multiple-choice test : for example --
Which of the following are not a part of Indian cuisine :
Atta
Ghee
Hing
Jirka
Methi
Saunf
WDYT ?
** Phil.
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Hi
Wonder if the account was registered by a human who fed his account details into his spam bot? as there already seems to be a 'captcha' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAPTCHA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAPTCHA)) challenge on the new user registration form.
Such a shame that scum always seeps into everywhere decent on the internet, at least this forum is almost spam free! apart from this scum bag.
cheers
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Jirka
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Horrified to discover that Kris has "gone metric" in KD2, so for the first time in my life I have had to weigh 2Kg onions and 50g garlic & ginger.
Lay in bed last night and worried about this : T W O kg ??? Surely not. Finally remembered to check : actual amount O N E kg. Important if anyone is thinking of replicating this.
All of which led me to another strange discovery : KD has been changing her preferred units with (virtually) every edition of her book ! The oldest I have is the 2002 printing, in which she writes (for chicken curry) "
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Phil,
what are your feelings on the difference in the onion between KD1 & KD2. so far i've felt it best to add the "caramelised" taste via bunjarra but i do realise i don't think i've ever tried caramelising onion as the starting point for base.
i'm thinking of it in terms of the 70s base.
ps i too have found that frying stage to affect the colour of the final base - more frying = darker base
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Jirka
OK, you can join : just sign here, below the words "Pay the bearer GBP 500-00".
Now the really hard part (perhaps) : "Jirka" is actually a valid word in at least one European language -- which language, which inflexion, and what is the base word ?!
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what are your feelings on the difference in the onion between KD1 & KD2. so far i've felt it best to add the "caramelised" taste via bunjarra but i do realise i don't think i've ever tried caramelising onion as the starting point for base.
Well, the first thing to say is that I have never tried making or using bunjara, though it is high on my list of "what to try next". But if I read KD correctly, I don't think she is aiming at caramelising per se : she says "transparent, and beginning to brown at the edges", which is pre-caramelisation to me.
i'm thinking of it in terms of the 70s base.
Would make perfect sense : all the "standard" texts speak of browning the onions, and 60's/70's recipes probably still retain a relatively high proportion of traditional techniques.
ps i too have found that frying stage to affect the colour of the final base - more frying = darker base
That also seems perfectly logical, but because I was using red onions (which were all I had), my base was a funny colour even pre-tomato and spice ! Incidentally, my "standard texts" all recommend Bombay onions : I wonder if they are easily obtained today ?
** Phil.
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Do we have the KD2 base published on the site anywhere?
Or can someone post it?
Wouldn't mind giving it a go
HS
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hotstuff09,
this is link to KD1. KD2 is i think same but method is changed slightly. i do have KD2 and could sum up changes if you need.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1652.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1652.0)
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Hi Jerry
I do have the KD1 book but not KD2, I was just wondering what the changes were in the two bases,
And yes Jerry, could you please sum up the changes for me,
Thanks
HS
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Hi Jerry
I do have the KD1 book but not KD2, I was just wondering what the changes were in the two bases,
And yes Jerry, could you please sum up the changes for me,
Thanks
HS
i have not made KD2 base and have not made KD1 since joining the site - bases here are significantly more developed.
KD2 ingredient changes. 4 tbsp olive oil (KD1 8 tbsp veg oil), 1kg onion (900g)
KD2 method changes:
step 1 onions cooked "fried gently" with salt and oil for 30 mins before adding ginger/garlic (just chopped not blended) cooked 2mins, then water simmer 25 mins.
step 2 same
step 3 same
i think in the book the idea of the changes is stop that smell of the ginger and onion cooking.
if you need more detail then pm me email and i will type out full instructions.
fyi: i know each of us needs to follow their instinct and try things new. having tried many base methods i just put everything into the pot at the start - there is no discernible difference.
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Thanks Jerry for taking the time to do that for me,
I have never done any of her bases, (I use Admins New Base) Just wanted to try one out and see what it's like, The reports on here are not good though, but as always it's down to personal taste
and like you I just chuck everything in the pot,
Cheers
HS
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The reports on here are not good though, but as always it's down to personal taste
hotstuff09,
i made KD1 for a long time and know it rates pretty good against the competition. there is a threshold which a base needs to pass and KD1 certainly does.
when you start adding other ingredients in like pepper, fresh coriander and for me carrot you can certainly detect a difference in the final curry.
admins base is one of the few that i've not made but can see from the recipe that it passes the threshold for sure.
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Slightly confused, Jerry : when you say "Admin's base (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1894.0) certainly passes that threshold", are you saying that you put it in the same category as KD1, or that you put it in the same category as the recipes that include pepper, fresh coriander and carrot ?
** Phil.
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Phil,
i've not made admins base but having looked at the recipe in the past i've felt it was good and would pass threshold. KD1 is a base i've made a lot - it certainly passes threshold ie you can make a very good curry from it.
after joining this site the 1st thing that struck me (from KD1) was that various "other" bulk veg were added to the site bases. these i feel make a significant difference to the resulting curry ie improve it well beyond the threshold a good example would be CA's or Razors base. there are many others that sit in this top slot and much depends on personal preference.
there is of course more to it than just bulk veg as the ashoka base proves. the amount of oil, onion, whole spice and general spicing are equally important
the important thing is to try a selection of bases until you find one that suits. i like the rajver as an example as it contains coconut milk. i also like the saffron for the bulk veg effect. i like the ifindforu base as it's very different to most. i make the mytake when i want a small batch.
at the end of the day the base only gets you so far and the rest of the jigsaw needs to be in place to make that final 5% leap.
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Hi all, I have made both KD bases and i found KD2 to be very good, i found it better than Darths 100%, Tazs,Bruce Edwards and proberbly Curry2go(but didnt gently cook onions in oil and little water first), I would have to cook Curry2go to spec to find out for sure, Now I am ready to make a new batch of base and am not sure which to try, stick to what i know? curry 2 go to spec? KD2 with variations? or a completely new base ie Rajver
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I'm biased and would recommend the Zaal base or Little India base ;D
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cheers curryhell, will have a look, have you tried chewytikka 3hour base?
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Also consider the up to date Glasgow (3.5Kg) base by BigBoaby1.
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cheers curryhell, will have a look, have you tried chewytikka 3hour base?
I have indeed and it's a damn fine base. Be wary of the glasgow base unless you know what the Glasgow flavour is and that is what you're looking for. Our ideal BIR down South does not necessarily equate to Glasgow curry. That's not to say that a Glasgow curry isn't damn tasty :P, just not what we look for down here ;)
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Made chewys base but time was of the essence and not sure if i cooked onions for long enough, CH did you leave your onions whole and if so how long did they take to cook?
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I don't really understand Curryhells warning against the Glasgow base, as, having made it half a dozen times now, I find it gives me a very similar dish to the SNS/Saffron base, but is just a little sweeter, richer tasting and most importantly, very consistent.
I found the Zaal and a few other bases to be very different to my "Southern" tastes, than the Glasgow base has been.
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I'm not exactly sure just how authentic the "Glasgow base" really is, but I noticed over the past 5-6 years that most of the takeaway curries I ordered more-or-less tasted the same with only small variations. I don't buy many takeaways nowadays because of the similarity between curries which should taste very different from each other.
On the other hand, using a mildly spiced base such as CT's, CA's, Zaal et al means that you can create a unique curry which tastes of the spices, herbs, meat and vegetables added without the intrusions from a rich base.
But each to their own - it's a free country and there's loads of room for different tastes and opinions on this site. :)
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Until I (very recently) joined this site, all I knew about BIR was what I'd read in KD's The Curry Secret and The New Curry Secret. I live in Berlin, Germany, and believe you me, BIR is (or can be) wonderful - (I'm a British immigrant/expat here) - German Indian Restaurants, with a few honourable and notable exceptions are generally, well.....ermmm.....think of an anagram of "carp" :-)
So, anyway, I experimented a couple of times with the KD2 base and made a few dishes from the New Curry Secret with which I was delighted - aha!, this is close to BIR, the closest I've got so far, at least - and accompanied them with her Peshwari Pilau - best rice dish I've ever made - sweet and fragrant. I'll certainly make it again.
Reading about bases here, I think I want to make the next one slightly sweeter and the idea of adding a red or green pepper appeals to me for that reason. Cabbage and/or carrot and/or potato? Maybe.
However, my question is mainly about approaches to bases. In the New Curry Secret, KD makes the point that KD2 smells good even while you're making it, and I must admit that I like the smell of frying onions.
OK experts - (1) any discernible differences between frying/boiling when it comes to bases? (2) What difference(s) do the omission or addition of potatoes, cabbage and carrots make?
Many thanks in advance.
(PS - had a brief email exchange with KD - she's really friendly and cares about producing quality, tasty food - bless 'er!)
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I don't really understand Curryhells warning against the Glasgow base, as, having made it half a dozen times now, I find it gives me a very similar dish to the SNS/Saffron base, but is just a little sweeter, richer tasting and most importantly, very consistent.
I found the Zaal and a few other bases to be very different to my "Southern" tastes, than the Glasgow base has been.
My comment was not meant as a warning, more of a heads up. I know some of our curry heads on the site north of the border have found curry nirvana with this base, which is a fantastic result for them. For those seeking the unique "glasgow" curry taste, this base from what i've read seems hits the mark. But for some of us, who seek a different taste, it may be a little off the mark. The majority of restaurants that i frequent cook in the traditional BIR style with the different flavours being created from the added ingredients rather than having the "one pot" finished curry and just changing the flavours slightly. Will be interesting to hear others views.
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Reading about bases here, I think I want to make the next one slightly sweeter and the idea of adding a red or green pepper appeals to me for that reason. Cabbage and/or carrot and/or potato? Maybe.
However, my question is mainly about approaches to bases. In the New Curry Secret, KD makes the point that KD2 smells good even while you're making it, and I must admit that I like the smell of frying onions.
OK experts - (1) any discernible differences between frying/boiling when it comes to bases? (2) What difference(s) do the omission or addition of potatoes, cabbage and carrots make?
Many thanks in advance.
(PS - had a brief email exchange with KD - she's really friendly and cares about producing quality, tasty food - bless 'er!)
Answered my own question this weekend, it seems. Made a big pot of CA base sauce, and it worked like a dream. Reasonably thick and with a "zzzzz" of ginger on the tongue. Have some pre-cooked lentils as well - going to try a dhansak some time soon.
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I don't really understand Curryhells warning against the Glasgow base, as, having made it half a dozen times now, I find it gives me a very similar dish to the SNS/Saffron base, but is just a little sweeter, richer tasting and most importantly, very consistent.
I found the Zaal and a few other bases to be very different to my "Southern" tastes, than the Glasgow base has been.
My comment was not meant as a warning, more of a heads up. I know some of our curry heads on the site north of the border have found curry nirvana with this base, which is a fantastic result for them. For those seeking the unique "glasgow" curry taste, this base from what i've read seems hits the mark. But for some of us, who seek a different taste, it may be a little off the mark. The majority of restaurants that i frequent cook in the traditional BIR style with the different flavours being created from the added ingredients rather than having the "one pot" finished curry and just changing the flavours slightly. Will be interesting to hear others views.
..Hi curryhell i just wanted to say ive already tried this base and is very reminiscent in taste to what i'm use to in Manchester.. to date it's the closest i've tried..you mentioned about a one pot curry but if you look at the ingredients i think you are way of the mark..you have to remember there is more than one way to make a curry...As i said there is nothing in the recipe to suggest a one pot finished curry..below is the recipe...to me this base is the blank canvas and there is no end to the currys it will produce..The currys themselves are not made by Glaswegians but Indian chefs and just happen to work in Glasgow..Cheers pal ..ottis....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D7tAuZt8Iw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D7tAuZt8Iw)
5 KILLO ONIONS
300 ML VEGETABLE OIL..DON'T ADD TOO MUCH
1 TSP CUMIN SEEDS
1 TABLE SPOON SALT
1 LEVEL CHEF SPOON TURMERIC....
1 TSP GARAM MASALA
1 TSP TSP CHILLI POWDER
30 GRAMS COCONUT CREAM
1 TABEL SPOON TOMATO PUREE
WATER 3/4 WAY UP POT